Is depression actually real or is it just an excuse for lazy people?

>>7959358
it's both

>>7959358
Yes, depression is real and has been written about since humans have been writing.

>>7959390
But is the illness itself actually real or is it just people needing to stop being whiney cunts

>>7959393
The answer is 'yes'. It's both. It's very easy to fake depression nowadays, because claiming someone isn't actually depressed will get you blasted. However, this needs to be the case, because you shouldn't claim that real-depressed people aren't depressed.

>>7959358
If there weren't obvious measurables you could have a point.
People who self harm or commit suicide are more than just lazy

>>7959393
Every thought about that society teaches people with depression to be "whiny cunts".
If you're at your limit of crap you can take once again you can't just say how much you fucking hate the world and everyone around you. No you need to see "therapy" because society expects you to be constantly happy and spread love all around you.
But if you start whining you get some weird kind of respect for fighting depression.

>>7959404
Depression isn't someone "at their limit of crap they can take"
It's more like good things happen and you can't be happy for them

>>7959408

How can a "good" thing happen to me and I do not perceive it as something good, then it wasn't a good thing for me.(?)

>>7959358

For sure it is.

I had a brain tumor (pituitary gland), and it caused depression. That shit was terrifying.

On a normal day, I don't have enough time because I have so much I enjoy doing. When I was depressed, it wasn't that I didn't feel like doing anything, I actively wanted to do absolutely fucking nothing. All I wanted to do was just rest my head on my desk, and have time pass. Which was another thing, time passed miserably slow. 15 minutes actually felt like multiple hours.

I was so fucking relieved when that shit had gone away within the first week of my surgery. Being stuck like that would be terrible.

>>7959418
I've lived with that for 9 years
Kill me

>>7959358
the bigger question is IS ANYTHING REAL MANNNN?????

>>7959420
I'd be happy to, if you hire a hitman to kill me afterwards - I just don't want to see it coming cause I'm a bitch.

Depression is definitely real. But nowadays, you have a lot of 'fake' cases since having a mental illness is apparently considered trendy in today's society.

>>7959415
For me its that I don't find ANYthing enjoyable. I just try and distract to get through the day.
It feels like the only time I can be happy is when I don't realize I am.
Its the whole "I dont deserve to be happy" thing

Your head knows its a delusion, but your gut tells you its true

>>7959415
It means something that previously to depression you would consider good. But as another anon points out, >>7959438 it's not just good things. I hear alot of people characterize it as something bad or good happens and you have the same reaction, which is a lack of reaction. It really is just wanting each day to pass to the next. No desire to do anything.

When I had it bad in college, it was staying in bed and skipping class and tests with full knowledge, but no reaction to the repercussions. Then it snapped into pure anxiety one day magically and I've been catching up since kek. Now I just have a bad case of seasonal affective instead of year round.

>>7959450

>It really is just wanting each day to pass to the next. No desire to do anything.

This for me, too. It feels like every day is just wasting time between the cradle and the grave, and the things I enjoy the most are the ones that cause time to subjectively pass the quickest.

i bet the majority of people who would say they're depressed are actually just bored with their lives tbqh, not that it really matters to people who are actually depressed though cause i bet that sucks.

i think a lot of the people who think they're depressed are just people who crave attention and don't get it, so they just have to be 2deep4me and share 'deep' quotes on social medias or 'subtly' hint to their friends that they're depressed.

if people were told that they're normal more often we would have a lot less of this bullshit, but it's always "my child is so special" and what we get are a generation of people with 'mental illnesses' and le reddit type 'smart but lazy'.
most likely the kid wasn't smart at all but the parents don't want to deal with it and just say that the child has potential, kid might fail in school because he/she thinks studying isn't necessary when they're "sooooo smart & gifted" and suddenly they're depressed.

>inb4 projecting
i was constantly told i was gifted and smart when i was younger but i eventually saw through it and just started doing homework and i'm doing pretty well, majoring in EE.


why the fuck did i type this shit out, it's 5am ffs

>>7959627
>why the fuck did i type this shit out, it's 5am ffs
probably cause you are depressed

>>7959629
we're all depressed here :^)

"an excuse for lazy people" is pretty ridiculous, and it also doesn't explain extremely fucked up shit like suicide or the fact that there have been lots of incredibly prolific people that are tormented by depression

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>>7959438
>>7959450
How to deal with it? Is realizing the cause always important or other solutions are viable?

>>7959358
Like pretty much any mental/mood disorder, some of the people genuinely have a problem and some just want an excuse.

Hey i just thought of a cure for depression.
We stealthily sterilise all people claiming to be depressed even once.
It would probably only take one generation to eradicate depression.

>>7959644
It just happened for me one day. I can't explain it. Might've been something I did, but i wasn't exactly controlling variables in my life.

>>7959657
As someone who's struggled with major depressive order for the last 8 years, I agree. I'm not sure if it's genetic, since I've had a pretty good upbringing, but it's looking to be that way.

Last month, my uncle tried to kill himself and I recently found out my fucking 80 year old grandma has been on antidepressants for years. No way do I want to pass this shit to my kids. I'd rather chop my dick off than gamble with my child's risk of depression.

>>7959627
what to do in case your friends points out that you look depressed everyfucking day?

>>7959657
Or people's depressive symptoms manifest in forms more dangerous than sleeping in all day, or they just accept death.

>>7959693
Don't look depressed :^]

Kid I knew in highschool always looked like he hated everyone and everything that was going on around him. It was just his eyebrows and how he carried himself; real nice guy to be honest.

>>7959657
>We stealthily sterilise all people claiming to be depressed even once.
And you manage this how?

>>7959358

That's like asking "is polio real or is it just an excuse for lazy people." Learn to mental health.

Depression is real. Current theory is stress leads to decline in hippocampal neurogenesis (brain cells), which leads to less serotonin production which is the neurotransmitter that calms your ass down. Evidence to support this is antidepressant treatment for severe depression and the fact that the brain tissue of suicide victims has a higher density of 5-HT2A receptors than non depressed dead people. The increase in receptors is caused by weak signaling of serotonin, so the cells compensate by adding more receptors to increase sensitivity to any serotonin signalling

>>7959718
5-HT is the fancy name for serotonin

>>7959714
>physical condition (polio)
>mental health

yeah, okay

>>7959740
but depression is a physical condition, see >>7959718

>>7959740
You retard. Clinical depression is caused by a lack of serotonin present in an individual's brain. The usage of SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) counteracts this by preventing neurotransmitters from reabsorbing serotonin (a process called reuptake) and allowing it to build up with one's system. This is why such treatment works and generally takes a few weeks to fully kick in.

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You become depressed because something was fucked when you were growing up. Might've been cold parents, might've been an absent parent, might've been abuse. Whatever the case, you don't have the same fucking sense of self-worth that comes naturally for other people.
When you're depressed, it's easy to be lazy. Not every lazy person is depressed, and the way you differentiate between the two is that a lazy person will at least ensure that their basic needs are met and they're fucking clean. When the lazy behavior sets in, you start thinking "wow, I'm a lazy piece of shit," which makes you more depressed, which makes you more lazy, etc.

>>7959800
Depression is much more complex than that brah

>>7959816
Well, yeah, I'm just talking about one possible scenario for it.

>>7959714
>>7959740
>>7959743
This is painful to watch. OP's question is flawed, but your comparison isn't much better.

People can't easily fake the symptoms of polio well enough to fool anyone short of a highly trained professional. It's a hell of a lot harder (though not impossible, I guess) for someone to wrongly convince themselves that they have polio, or that their family member who's been feeling bad for a few days has polio.

>>7959836
>>7959836
Those posts weren't debating which illness was easier to fake or misdiagnosed, they were stating that depression has a physical cause like polio. Either you misinterpreted those posts and did not clearly explain your point or are trying to backtrack to save face

"Depression" is a misleadingly simple label for a deeply rooted and complex way of interacting with one's world. Its an emotional feedback loop which paralyzes the processes which bring most people to engage in the various actions that make up life. No biological or chemical explanation has provided more than a partial understanding (which isn't to say correlations have not been established).
Pharmaceutical interventions, likewise, tend to be partially effective, a view that is generally shared by the professionals prescribing antidepressants.

Who am I? a guy who has been professionally diagnosed as "chronically depressed", then later, when I was finally willing to try medication despite my inclination against it, denied antidepressants due to my possibly having Bipolar disorder.
Tried common mood stabilizer, then felt worse. Now, years later, I don't fit the diagnostic requirements for either bipolar or major depression. I've worked hard and I'm still not out of the woods.

Basically, it is very real, whatever the cause. The danger is that once you have the label, it is very, very, tempting to use it as a way to avoid being accountable for your actions and your life. There is a balance of remaining accountable, but not self degrading. Many depressive types must learn this for the first time.
Also pushing yourself into action, even when you don't feel like it. Doing it every day, and if you miss a day, forgive yourself and don't get all hopeless, even though a large part of yourself is looking to do just that.

>>7959720
it is, but that anon was talking of specific receptors by that name in the nervous system, to differentiate between that and others, like 5ht2c receptors which are more commonly used in perception and the brain you spesh

>>7959751
>This is why such treatment works and generally takes a few weeks to fully kick in.
Why does it take a few weeks to kick in if SSRIs boost free serotonin almost immediately? This contradicts the notion that depression is mere lack of serotonin.

>>7959358

Seeing as scientists and psychologists can actually see depression n the brain, it is most definitely real. The psychologically symptoms from depression, absent of biological symptoms might be a different story.

e.g. does depression cause people to be lazy and blame their unproductiveness on themselves

or

does unproductiveness and laziness cause depressive states.

>>7959358
I would be depressed too if I turned down a threesome in order to play SSBB.

>>7959836
There are blood tests for certain kinds of depression.

https://www.aacc.org/publications/cln/articles/2016/march/the-elusive-blood-test-for-depression

>Known as MDDScore, the test demonstrated a sensitivity and specificity both >90%, and holds the distinction of being one of the few biomarker-based assays for depression whose effectiveness has been validated in a replication study. The nine biomarkers it measures are associated with changes observed during major depression that take place in the neurotrophic, metabolic, inflammatory, and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis pathways. Using the pattern of these biomarkers’ concentrations as well as body-mass index, the algorithm then calculates a score on a scale of 1 to 9 that is adjusted for sex indicating the probability that a patient has depression.

>>7959895
circi?

>>7959657
won't work, experiment was done once already by Hitler, they sterilized people with serious mental disorders, iirc hundreds of thousands ppl. statistics of people with these disorders born after the war at 20-30 years of age haven't changed whatsoever.

>tfw not depressed
:)

>>7960214
was the same anon for both posts, just giving the non-technical terminology so there would be less confusion to those with a very limited knowledge on the subject

>>7960310
Because the individual does not produce nearly enough serotonin naturally, it takea a while for it to build up to the levels that it should be.

>>7960693
>>7960310
SSRIs take a while to work because the boost in serotonin triggers neurogenesis, which is the creation of no neurocells. With continued use of SSRI it takes roughly 8 weeks for symptoms to start improving because that is how long it takes the new cells to differentiate. And SSRIs are most effective for severe depression, not mild.

>>7960707
*creation of new neurocells

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>>7959422

Clinical depression is very, very real. There are a great many people today who are diagnosed with "depression" and who are prescribed M&M's to treat it who are not actually clinically depressed. If you have the energy and interest level to whine about it, chances are you aren't clinically depressed.

>>7959415

It can. I've had severe depression going on 4 years. Long family history of mental issues.

I still perceive good things as good (For example: getting a suprise gift, pulling a good looking girl at a bar, etc) but these events are still tainted by 'sadness/depression' I'm unable to simply enjoy them and be happy. This tends to make me apathetic as I would rather not feel emotion than constantly feel negative.

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>>7960733

>energy/interest to whine about it
>it takes basically no energy to do those things

mfw

>>7960754
You've obviously never been clinically depressed.

>>7959668
This is what faggots uses as excuse

REAL MEN don't have kids because they are alphas who wants to fck bitches and earn lots of cash all day, every year and take vacations when they feel like it

>>7959358
>psychologyyy is a pseudoscieencee lmao how can psychology be real when science is not real

>guys I have been depressed/am schizoid/cant talk to people/suffer from anxiety attacks

>lol just be yourself
>just read nietzche or marcus aurelius you'll be fine

is /sci/ bipolar, delusional or just plain retarded?

>>7961033

This being 4chan, I'd say "yes"

Last week I went scuba diving to a ship wreck in Hawaii. Shit was presitine and visibility was amazing. Saw all kinds of fish, turtules, eels, and sharksm

Still, it was kind of just meh. And the fact that I can't enjoy what should bring me enjoyment makes me feel even more broken. It's a shitty cycle that even people who work hard and are active encounter.

>>7961259
Boy, you should take some antidepressants. They will really solve all of your problems for you.

>>7959878
That's my only post in the thread, so I don't know where you're getting "backtracking" from.

>Those posts weren't debating which illness was easier to fake or misdiagnosed, they were stating that depression has a physical cause like polio.
Read the first post I linked, note that it's a response to OP, and you shouldn't have any more trouble understanding mine.

Polio's a bad comparison because it can't be faked well enough to fool most people. The "one's a physical condition, one's mental" argument that they got into has nothing to do with whether it's a good comparison, though the fact that depression's physical symptoms are less obvious than polio's may make it easier to fake.

A -good- comparison would be something that's universally accepted as real, but which is also known to be falsely claimed by people for convenience or social reasons. Hardly anyone claims that cat allergies don't exist, but most people also know someone that's lied about having them.

>>7959393
depression isnt an illness its a symptom

>>7959418
did you atleast get the bonus of being 7ft tall?

>>7961443

Wasn't even that lucky. My tumor didn't produce GH. It made ACTH.

>>7961358

Proooooobably not true. The general treatment for depression isn't just "take two of these and don't come back unless you have side effects" (and if it is, fucking drop the bitch that gave you that - they are clearly unfit for their job). It's "take two of these, go see a therapist, and come back in a few weeks to let me know what's up". Depression is often more than just a neurochemical deficit, and requires more than just a pill to go away.

It's certainly way more real than the so-called "neurosis", which is just a cop-out term that doctors incapable of (or unwilling to) diagnosing an illness (ab)use routinely.

>>7961752
take some accountability you lazy faggot

unless that's who you want to be then whatever

>>7961520
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

>>7959895
good post

>>7959358
Its real. I suggest taking a neuroscience course as an elective sometime if understanding this is important to you.

It's real,happens when life doesn't simulate you and give you energy like it used to,might be biological.

>>7961426
Since you weren't the first poster then all your post did was sidetrack from the original discussion between those posters. What you're arguing about isn't relevant to those 3 posts because no one was arguing about what you are. No one gives a shit about the strength of comparison because they aren't as pedantic as you

>>7959358
Having experienced depression myself, I can confirm it's real... A REAL PAIN IN THE ASS. HAHAHA.

Nah but one should feel pretty bad for lying about having a mental illness. Perhaps the willingness to lie about things like that is indicative of another mental issue? I dunno don't ask me I'm not a doctor.

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>>7959415

You intellectually recognize something as falling within the parameters of 'good'

But you just don't feel...anything at all. It's not even a kind of indifference, it's just nothing.

t. formerly diagnosed with Major-Depressive Disorder

>>7960693
>Because the individual does not produce nearly enough serotonin naturally, it takea a while for it to build up to the levels that it should be.
That shouldn't matter, you should see effects straight away even if it's not full. Also the synapses should down-regulate after a few weeks and produce less serotonin to compensate for the decreased reuptake. So many things wrong with the serotonin theory.

>>7960707
That's an interesting take on it.
What's the mechanism by which serotonin triggers neurogenesis? And further, what does neurogenesis do to help with depression?

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>>7959751
>>7960310
>>7960693
>>7960707

>Acting as if the mechanism of action for antidepressants is even remotely understood.
>Not even mentioning the role of the HPA

protibb: The monoamine imbalance hypothesis is grossly simplified and unsupported.

>>7962350
>But you just don't feel...anything at all. It's not even a kind of indifference, it's just nothing.
This, but also for bad stuff too.

At first doing productive work stops being enjoyable, then hobbies go. Eventually you stop even feeling bad about the fact that your no longer doing anything. Hell, even masturbation stops being rewarding. You just go through the minimal mechanical actions needed to stay alive, and put on shitty TV / browse 4chan to distract you from the things you know you ought to do but don't care about. It's basically waiting to die.

>>7960693
>>7960707
>Reasoning backwards, from SSRI efficacy to presumed serotonin deficiency, is thus highly contested. The validity of this reasoning becomes even more unlikely when one considers recent studies that even call into question the very efficacy of the SSRIs. Irving Kirsch and colleagues, using the Freedom of Information Act, gained access to all clinical trials of antidepressants submitted to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) by the pharmaceutical companies for medication approval. When the published and unpublished trials were pooled, the placebo duplicated about 80% of the antidepressant response [13]; 57% of these pharmaceutical company–funded trials failed to show a statistically significant difference between antidepressant and inert placebo [14]. A recent Cochrane review suggests that these results are inflated as compared to trials that use an active placebo [15]. This modest efficacy and extremely high rate of placebo response are not seen in the treatment of well-studied imbalances such as insulin deficiency, and casts doubt on the serotonin hypothesis.

>>7962380
>Also problematic for the serotonin hypothesis is the growing body of research comparing SSRIs to interventions that do not target serotonin specifically. For instance, a Cochrane systematic review found no major difference in efficacy between SSRIs and tricyclic antidepressants [16]. In addition, in randomized controlled trials, buproprion [17] and reboxetine [18] were just as effective as the SSRIs in the treatment of depression, yet neither affects serotonin to any significant degree. St. John's Wort [19] and placebo [20] have outperformed SSRIs in recent randomized controlled trials. Exercise was found to be as effective as the SSRI sertraline in a randomized controlled trial [21]. The research and development activities of pharmaceutical companies also illustrate a diminishing role for serotonergic intervention—Eli Lilly, the company that produced fluoxetine (Prozac), recently released duloxetine, an antidepressant designed to impact norepinephrine as well as serotonin. The evidence presented above thus seems incompatible with a specific serotonergic lesion in depression.

>>7962278
The first post's point depends on strength of comparison, retarded "social science" student.

>>7959415
lower your standards for goodness. you're expecting too much out of life and life isn't there to entertain you, you're here to live it. enjoy while you can. try to not be depressed at least. pretend you're not depressed.

>>7959358
Is laziness real or is it just an excuse to call depressed people names that will keep them depressed?

>>7959408
No, that's way off.

Depression is the effect some thing has over you and it is discovered by leveraging this marginal effect over the things you "love" and the things you take pleasure in.

Like me, for instance, I am sorta depressed bc I used to enjoy complex and intricate things that involved a lot of creativity and hate how now it seems that all things just kind of revolve around fat autists and the idiot feminists that ask for things they were told to ask for. I hate it BC it is no longer complex nor intricate yet the demographs still end up being Terrible at whatever and that just BC I choose the lengthy way that allows me more control I and deemably stupid for not having spent the time learning how to give people exactly what they want, satisfaction, even when it's me that is seeking said satisfaction.

Something depresses you, actively or passively, you don't wake up sad one day and are suddenly depressed.

Lonely ppl are depressed by social ppl.
Smart ppl by idiots.
4chsn by tumblr.
Men by women.
Women by other women.

America by feminists and niggers, and no I don't mean black ppl.

>>7962652
Underrated post.

Yes. Its very real.

>>7959358
Depression is a literal demon - just fight him and it'll go away.

>>7959415
getting too close to moral relativism here

>>7959358
depression does exist and is real. However, it's also hard to understand as anything that goes on inside the complex machine that is our brains, and we only can diagnose it from what goes on in the outside, that is, the depressive behavior and attitude we call symptoms, and see some changes in the brain from depressed people compared to regular people and some receptor deficits.

>>7959358
Depression is/can be several things.
1. A pattern self-perpetuating mindset wherein one finds their comfort zone in being defeated or victimized by life, and refuses to step outside of these behaviors for fear of only making things worse.
2. Problems regulating hormones
3. an excuse for lazy people

>>7959358
Yeah, that's why they kill themselves. Laziness.

Would a rational person kill themselves because they are sad?

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>>7959358
Consider the following

>>7962667
No, thats "being depressed". Depression is a whole other ball game

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The answer is "you don't think about it"