Why is Comspci is a meme

>>7894043

Because if you study engineering, you become a superior being

>lecturer_crossing_the_word_science_from_computer_science.gif

>>7894045
Shouldnt software engineering gain the respect of other engineering disciplines?

Because people want to feel better about themselves by putting others down. What's so hard to understand? Just study computer science and get a job while they complain on the internet that they're so much better than you.

>>7894043
Who is this semen demon?

>>7894043
Because the internet is full of insecure fucks who can't understand that not everyone gets in CS because of "lol gonna work for videojuegos". Some people actually enjoy CS and CE related subjects, like Operations Research, Computability, or even "simple" stuff like networking, like Netzob, which uses bioinformatic techniques to figure out the most likelly relationships between bits in a network message in order to reverse engineer propietary or unknown protocols.

>>7894180
george clooney

>>7894207
thanks based anon

Because the undergrad students are so fucking retarded.

Any neckbeard that doesn't leave their bedroom and is so unimaginitive and fucking boring that they have literally 0 hobbies, or interests, or other pursuits, will claim "computers" and "video games" as their interests.

Computers are the default hobby of neckbeards. They run a minecraft server and get bullied in school (which in their mind means they're smart, not socially awkward), so they think they're hot shit and sign up to Computer Science.

Then they get to their course and are like "eww wtf is all this maths shit I just wanted to program video games about MLP"

>>7894166

Came here to say this.

>>7894193
>not everyone gets in CS because of "lol gonna work for videojuegos"

This is pretty much the reason for 99% of everyone who studies CS, though. Even in top tier universities you will see this.

I'm not even going to respond directly to your post. I'll give you some better advice.

Take everything you hear on this board and do the opposite.
>sci relentlessly posts the M.Sc degree is worse than a PhD meme
Completely wrong.

>sci relentlessly bashes CS
I know multiple people who are living my dream of a downtown Chicago high rise apartment right out of college with their "shitty" CS degrees

>math and physics will get you all the jobs
Math has gotten one of my friends a really well paying job not in his field. Physics got another friend of mine shit, so he went to grad school. He will most likely do very well now.

>well, I'm in X major and I post memes about how chem is just applied physics which is just applied math so I can do all of those jobs!
No you can't and no one will hire a mathematician for a chemists position. Probably not a physicist position either.

>>7894247
such baits are not welcomed here

>>7894291
Definitely no 99% but there is some truth here sadly :( I really don't get along with my fellow CS students as much as I do with pure math students. In my experience, math students tend to be more well rounded, and less obsessed with video games. Considering the sample size though, the general trend could be totally the other way.

>>7894306
It's just a prank, bro. Don't take it serious.

>>7894531
As a pure math major I don't really get along with either groups. In undergrad I didn't like my fellow math majors. They were cliquey and either suffered from serious autism or were hyper competitive. The CS majors were less 'academic', hated math and were hardcore Linux geeks or video game spergs. Felt like I belonged no where.

>>7894291

I'll give you 50% at most (in the first semester), and most drop out later.

>>7894291
>>7894531
>>7894890

>be me
>play halo
>watch all of the behind the scenes shit
>looks cool
>watch more
>like this shit
>problem solving, making digital worlds come to life (AI and the like)
>see I need Comp Sci for even a hope of working in the industry
>study hard, get into good uni studying comp sci
>get involved in robotics project
>learn about linux because I feel like I have to
>whole world of CS opens up
>still enjoy vidya
>still think it would be cool to work in that industry
>isn't my primary goal anymore
>considering research if possible

For me, Uni was the experience that Uni is supposed to be (expanding knowledge about a subject, rather than learning Java for getting code monkey jobs). Started studying the subject for the wrong reasons (was interested, but mainly to work in gaming), continued studying it for the right ones (became genuinely interested in the subject). I saw a few of the people that were there just for video games. They dropped out after the first semester, and more at the end of first year (the course numbers went down significantly). Now the people that are there are the people that enjoy it. My courses are pretty theory heavy, we're expected to know how to program and pick up new programming languages without much effort, the main idea of coursework assignments is to apply the theory from the course. So yeah, I guess I'm the exception... I also don't find CS students to be obsessed with video games. Sorry for the essay, thought I'd share my experience.

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>>7894043
It's a 1 year trade degree being taught at 4 year colleges with students that think taking discrete math makes them into field medalists.

>>7894049
Software engineering is essentially dumbed down CS

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>>7894049

>>7894166

Because you can get a CS job with any STEM degree (or by being self taught with a good portfolio) so you end up wasting 4 years that could have been spent learning and doing something far more rewarding.

>>7894043
We have "Y u h8 CS" threads all the damn time. Read the archives:

>>5662999
>I do not hate CS. CS is an umbrella term for many interesting fields of research. However I do feel utter contempt for CS students. As a mathematically minded person I myself studied CS until realizing that I won't get any intellectual qualifications from studying it. BSc programmes in CS are catering to and attracting the most anti-intellectual scum that barely managed to enter university. The usual CS curriculum is already designed in such a way to teach only a bare minimum of math and theory, hardly going beyond high school knowledge. Yet the average CS student fails it. The same people who are spouting wrong platitudes like "CS is all hard math" are the people who think you're a genius for knowing calculus. The pinnacle of idiocy I encountered in CS was a 6th semester student going for his BSc who did not know what a logarithm is.

>>5982685
>With a CS degree alone without further qualifications you are factually unemployable. Neither the primitive GUI design in java nor the shallow hardware, database or network intro will qualify you for a job. The only people getting acceptable jobs with a CS degree are those who either combined it with another degree or who already had a job before because they self-learned important skills. Quite a few CS students openly told me they are only getting the degree just to have something on paper to force their boss to give them higher salary. The job they already had because they started web design / programming / security in high school. Having demonstrable experience in those is more important to an employer than what you learned in CS. The business monkey variety of retards is even more unemployable. Representatives of local industries explicitly said the degree is trash because these people know neither economics/business nor computing.

>>7895203

>>5981331
>The math and theoretical CS are even more laughable. The only people who complain about their hardness are those stereotypical video game retards who already failed their math classes in high school. All the "muh logical quantifiers", "let's mindlessly apply this symbolic manipulation algorithm", "oh wow, an automaton represents a language" or "holy shit, how do I show this algorithm does what it does" babby crap is shallow and hardly deserves to be called university level. A mathematician or a physicsist who is trained in reading definitions, theorems and proofs can pick up all of a BSc computer scientist's theoretical CS much more indepth by spending one or two afternoons of reading a book.

>>5981333
>The worst thing however are the people going for such a degree. Out of all degrees CS seems to attract the most anti-intellectual scum. I seriously wonder how these people even managed to enter university. Every retard who barely passed high school and spends most of his day playing video games seems to think the must study CS. There are socially inept neckbeards of the retarded variety, hating and repeatedly failing math as well as the most simple programming assignments. There are dumbasses whose high school diploma was too bad to go for an economics degree, hence why they want to enter the business monkey route of CS in the hope of getting a little more than minimum salary. Those are of such subhuman IQ that they do not even understand the semantics of an implication in propositional logic.

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>>7895186
post em

Probably cause I'm shit at programming desu

>>7895203
>>7895204
autism

>>7894291
>This is pretty much the reason for 99% of everyone who studies CS, though.
I honestly haven't seen a single one of those characters back when I studied CS. Though it's possible they all dropped out early on, I suppose.

>>7895282
>can't refute it
>call them autistic

>>7894291
>CS major
>majority of my social circle are CS majors
>almost no gamers, definitely not more than in other stem fields
>nobody ever considered video games as a career

>>7894291
>mfw i play video games errday, diamond in league and LE in csgo
>enjoy math and double majoring in cs/math
>mfw i never reveal my power level because i'm deathly afraid someone will mistake me for one of those "I want to work for video games" chucklefucks

is it just me or is fucking everyone going into CS?
a bunch of my friends who barely even turn on a computer except for checking on facebook are going to CS. Even a girl who I went to school with who became a hairdresser decided to go into CS. In the university I go to they only let in like 30% of the applicants for CS becasue the department is overcrowded.
it just feels like this whole field will eventually become completely oversaturated and the salary will drop down to nothing unless you are independent and very talented

>>7895198
CS is rewarding though.
>Any STEM degree
Yeah, and you'll be playing catch up and losing a lot of positions to dedicated cs majors. Any, ANY, asshole can code. The question is "can I code well? can I optimize? can I pick up new skills on the fly?" If you have a cs degree, the chances are yeah, you totally can.

>>7896194
>can I code well? can I optimize? can I pick up new skills on the fly
>If you have a cs degree, the chances are yeah, you totally can.

HAHAHAHA, no. 99.5% can't even code fizzbuzz let alone optimize or brainstorm efficient algorithms.

If you want to be good at coding, you have to code. PERIOD. Besides giving you an intro to a language, data structures, and paradigms college classes won't make you into a good programmer.

>>7894306
>>sci relentlessly bashes CS
>I know multiple people who are living my dream of a downtown Chicago high rise apartment right out of college with their "shitty" CS degrees

I know multiple business majors that are CEOs. BUSINESS IS THE BEST MAJOR EVER1

>>7894043
It's because object oriented programming and rapid hardware development have made it so that there is no need for academics to expand beyond current algorithms, although with big data we're seeing a growing need for people who understand set theory and probability in the field. Even then, the people who know what they're doing are instantly recruited by CIA/NSA/DARPA.

Overall this had made undergraduate study a total joke, while graduate study has become incredibly hard and doesn't seem worthwhile when a fucking "front end developer" that just hardcodes GUI's can make as much as the average guy with a PhD after 5 years of experience.

>>7896194
I would literally rather hire an EE that knows how to code than a CS major that knows how to code. Odds are the EE guy actually had to learn pointers in his curriculum while the CS guy didn't.

>>7896303
>Odds are the EE guy actually had to learn pointers
Learned pointers in the second CS class of a third-rate CC.

>>7896300
>It's because object oriented programming and rapid hardware development have made it so that there is no need for academics to expand beyond current algorithms, although with big data we're seeing a growing need for people who understand set theory and probability in the field. Even then, the people who know what they're doing are instantly recruited by CIA/NSA/DARPA.

Why are you using words that you don't even understand? The NSA won't hire you for just knowing some naive set theory and discrete probability. They hire PhD mathematicians.

>while graduate study has become incredibly hard

If you're coming purely from a undergrad CS degree, yes. If you're from any other STEM background, graduate CS is easier than your own field's graduate program most of the time.

To me personally? Because my cousin's husband does what computer scientists do as a programmer without even needing a degree in it, and so if you're going to bother to get a degree computer engineering offers you the mathematics to do what neither computer science nor being independently trained allows you to do.

To me that's why it's a meme.

>>7896336
>second CS class
>second

EE/CE learn pointers their first coding class in C++. They don't waste their time in university learning intro programming "in Python", "in C", "in Java", and "in Lisp" with overlapping classes like CS majors...

>>7896340
Why is learning Lisp before C a bad thing?

>>7896342
>mah applications

LISP if fun to jerk around in.

>>7896342
Why is learning Afrikaans before English a bad thing?

>>7896366
I don't see what you're implying.

>>7896369

You should want your mother tongue to be in the most useful language.

>>7896385
You don't only want to learn widely used languages, but also languages which allow for easier understanding of certain concepts.

>>7894043
CS is awesome.
Idiots think that CS == Programming so that's why they think it's an stupid degree compared to maths or physics.
If I weren't going for a degree in physics I would totally go for CS, specially for something related to ML (I'm going for something related to ML in physics, though).

>>7895203
>>7895204
Who the fuck writes this shit?

>>7895282
>autism
More like elitism. I've met lots of autists who are not even close to being that fucking smarmy & egotistical.

>>7896178
My brother who barely uses a PC for anything besides essays went into CS. He ended switching majors lol

I think CS is a meme if you don't know what you want from it. Some CS programs don't have much to do with programming. I picked my school based on what I wanted from the program. The first school I looked at had one programming class throughout the whole program, and it was a Java course.

The school I decided on is for CS is mainly programming, and a lot of math. C++ is required and you pick a secondary language such as Python, C# - .NET, Java, web languages are also required.

TL;DR CS is only a meme if you meme yourself

also don't worry about what others tell you just do whatever interests you

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>>7896447
>Who the fuck writes this shit?

It's completely true.

>More like elitism. I've met lots of autists who are not even close to being that fucking smarmy & egotistical.

We don't attack CS to make ourselves look good. CS is a joke regardless.

The real elitists are CS majors that utterly refuse to believe their classes are easy since they and all their classmate struggle tremendously in them (and that proves nothing, see business majors struggling in business calc). They also respond by attacking the poster instead of refuting the argument, you included.

>>7896409
>Idiots think that CS == Programming

No, CS majors just insist that strawman. When we say CS is trivial, we mean algorithms, programming languages, compilers, OS design, computability theory, complexity theory, AI, graphics, security, databases, and networks are all a joke to learn.

I was in ca but didnt stick with it becayse nothing id learn in it was something that i couldnt do on my own. The same isnt said for say electronic design or material research and other projects. I just weighed my courses in terms of knowledge versus value. Computer science was low compared to others for me. Plus i think engineering accredation goes far.

>>7896339
CE barely does any math

The most advanced stuff they do is diff eq

>>7897362
At my university, CEs do everything EEs do minus two classes on power.

>>7894049
No because Software Engineering is just one course on a Computer Engineering career.

>>7897362
At my uni CE does Advanced Maths which is just above diff eq. CE doesn't need that much mathematical background, just the basics.

>>7896178
They do, but 60% drop out after the first semester because they can't even handle the basic homeworks.
Source: me, being a first semester cs dude who is studying to become a code money for a random company.

>>7896278
>99.5% can't even code fizzbuzz let alone optimize or brainstorm efficient algorithms.
Are there countries with such a shit education system that this is actually true? Western yurop cs here and I'm pretty sure 99% of freshmen can do fizzbuzz.

>>7897702

It's /sci/, what do you think?

There was some story about how 99% (probably an exaggeration) of people applying to programming jobs couldn't program fizzbuzz. Of course, most of these were probably not CS students, just people applying for coding jobs in general. based on my university's CS dept (which isn't even good) I'd say at least the very least 95% of freshman could code fizzbuzz, probably closer to 100%, but there's always some people that just fail.

>>7896626
Computability theory isn't trivial. It's a branch of mathematics, studied within the math department at top universities within the US. The fact you think recursion theory is only taught in automata classes shows me you aren't a math major or a piece of shit one.

>>7896626
>complexity theory
>easy
I know, this is /g/ and all, but that was over the damn line.

>>7897807
Because graduate level material in computational complexity is trivial. That's why there are open problems in the field. The people that say these meme things are neither mathematicians nor computer scientist.

The people that make these comments are the tools that took a course in real analysis and think everything else is beneath them, when in reality they couldn't master the material so quickly in graduate level math CS courses. If it's so trivial then I invite them to a graduate level oral examination in the computational complexity theory at Berkeley.

I don't know about America, but here in England the entry requirements for CS are the same as for maths and physics.

1. Search indeed.com for mathematician

2. Look at requirements.

3. All that don't require a PhD accept compsci

4. Math majors btfo

A competent and intelligent mathematician doesn't consider math ”harder" to do than other fields.

... And then you have sci.

ITT mathfags butthurt that CS has changed the entire world and how humans interact.

Inb4 huurr Durr my math numbers made it all possible.

A CS Bs is just a foundation. It's a mile wide and an inch deep.

You can't possibly fit highly specialized (and paid) areas into it. CS spans every single industry.

A CS BS in nothing but a crash course and starting point.

>>7896626
>networks are all a joke to learn.

Says the guy who can't get a triple CCIEs and bank 200k a year

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>>7896337

Except you are obviously wrong.

Even in an information age where facts are just seconds away, people like you can't see past their own delusions.

https://www.nsa.gov/psp/applyonline/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&Action=A&JobOpeningId=1065813&SiteId=1&PostingSeq=1
tal)

Job Title:Mathematician
Entry is with a Bachelor's degree.
Degree in math, physics, engineering, or computer science is preferred.
Degree must include at least two years of advanced math.

I'll let you figure out why computer science, physics, and engineering is listed there.

>>7896178
My cousin who I never heard talk about computers did CS and he just codes I guess now.

>>7897789
>implying CS majors study postdoc level math in their classes

High school Algebra is still trivial even if Algebra is "a branch of mathematics, studied within the math department at top universities within the US."

Who cares how deep that rabbit hole goes if they only scratch the surface of it.

>>7897702

Speak to actual employers/managers/recruiters that hire programmers. It's real.

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/15623/fizzbuzz-really
https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/44q5rd/is_the_fizz_buzz_teat_for_real_or_is_it_satire/

>>7897830
>undergrad classes can't be easy because graduate classes are hard

I've seen so many CS majors on here make that same exact fallacy. You're the reason why CS is a meme.

>>7897807

Any reasonably intelligence middle schooler could read and understand everything in Sipser. It's not hard at all.

>>7897362
>CE barely does any math

probability and stochastic processes
system and signal analysis
complex variables
applied linear algebra
numerical analysis
proofs and discrete math
combinatorics and graph theory
abstract algebra
modern geometry
information and coding theory
cryptography
control theory
convex optimization
measure theory
functional analysis

You run into a fuckton of math in CE

>>7898383
>Speak to actual employers/managers/recruiters that hire programmers. It's real.
>http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/15623/fizzbuzz-really
>https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/44q5rd/is_the_fizz_buzz_teat_for_real_or_is_it_satire/

All that tells you is that unqualified people apply for programming positions.

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>>7897986
>thinks calculus is impressive

>>7898393
Then in that case real analysis and abstract algebra are easy classes and comparable to the level of difficulty of a course in algorithms. your meme that math classes are hard falls flat. Undergrad math is just as easy as math in CS. You're just fucking retarded which is why you find Artin and Rudin hard in your undergrad classes.

>>7898473
What I was trying to say was that the CS students have to be just as smart as Maths and Physics students.

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>>7898486
>trivial induction proofs in CLRS and Sipser
>this is as hard as Rudin and Artin

>>7898878
...in high school. That's such a low bar to jump over.

Computer science is all about the products that come out of it these days. So the drive is money rather than progress. The geniuses don't go into research but get snatched up by companies or create their own.

It's a hard field for sure though, the problem of it being that it's not like math and physics in the sense that you are exploring the rules of an axiom or the universe. But rather you are the one creating the rules and making stuff out of nothing. AI is a hard field for sure if it's a joke, the mathematicians and physicists would have come over to solve it already as its one of the most promising fields in science in terms of what we could get out of it.

>>7894043
Don't waste your time worrying about what a group of lonely autists on an anime image board think.

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>I see that everything I find interesting is a meme
>every new subject I turn to ends up a meme