What's the point of water fluoridation? It doesn't

>>7846771
From what I gather it was a good way to dispose of toxic waste from the Aluminum manufacturing industry that grew to epic proportions in the US.

Instead of paying to dispose of it, they paid off some dentists to shill the propaganda that is was good for teeth, then could sell it to water plant operators thus diluting it slowly to non toxic levels through water treatment systems. Medicating drinking water is suspicious and could all be tinfoil literally, however it for sure causes pitting in teeth and calcification of the third eye, the pineal gland. Apparently the Nazis used it to pacify their death camp subjects.

>>7846771
>What's the point of water fluoridation?

Reducing dental decay. But you already knew that.

>>7846778

Poe's Law post

>>7846791
Unintended implementation of Poe's Law, I was actually trying to indirectly implement Godwin's Law.

Anywhoo, I have lived outside of fluoridated water supplies for a decade or more now, can't seem to avoid the fluoridated toothpaste unless you shop at fringe hippie shops though. Excuse the confirmation bias. Let the thread RIP.

>>7846771
>What's the point of water fluoridation?

Industry needs a place to legally put their toxic waste. They came up with a scheme to actually sell their toxic waste to local governments instead of paying through the nose to properly dispose of the toxic waste.

>>7846778
Didn't see your post, friend. But, you should cut out that shit in the last two sentences.

>>7846778
>however it for sure causes pitting in teeth and calcification of the third eye, the pineal gland. Apparently the Nazis used it to pacify their death camp subjects.

Whut? Source this shit.

I drink tap water everyday.

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>>7846771
>no one really bothers to investigate further in fear of getting attacked by big name fluoridationists.
>barely 2 sentences in and OP goes into balls-to-the-wall tinfoil hat rhetoric
oh this is going to be good
what a way to start a thread

>>7846821
>can't seem to avoid the fluoridated toothpaste unless you shop at fringe hippie shops though

There's the rub. You don't need toothpaste. You only need water and a toothbrush. A soft toothbrush. It is the same thing as need "needing" deodorant or conditioner for your hair or makeup for your face. All the products are designed around a vicious cycle to make you "need" them forever.

>>7846771
>>>/pol/
>>>/x/
>>>/out/

>>7846771
There probably isn't one. Most information about health that people get from the government is likely trash anyhow. Just look at shit like the food pyramid.

>>7846840
Yeah I read up on that propagandized brushing habit too, I am slowly reducing my doses of shampoo but really enjoy brushing my teeth, it's going to be a hard habit to break.

>>7846841
Why is /sci/ so afraid of chemistry? Florine and some fluoride compounds if I am not mistaken are some of the most reactive elements known to man. Highly reactive elements should be treated with caution, probably not tossed into potable water supplies.

>>7846771
You're supposed to think that GMOs cause all the ailments that you crazy people were blaming fluoride for. Get with the times.

>>7846859
>acts like he knows chemistry
>thinks that an element being reactive on its own gives him information about how it will behave while bound within a molecule
we sure fund ourselves a phd-tier chemist right here

>>7846859
Sodium and chlorine are two highly reactive and very dangerous elements. What happens when you combine them? Regular old table salt.
Please learn some chemistry before making absurd arguments.
As a side note, what's with the sudden increase in tinfoilers on /sci/ recently? Is it just one guy? Did some sub-reddit or containment board get shut down? Is there a rule against shitting up the board with conspiratard bullshit?

>>7846926
Winter break ended, so now there aren't enough schoolkids here to drown out the regulars.

>>7846771
Do you even need to ask? of course it's to turn you all plebs into zombies so we.. erm, I mean so the masonery can control the world.

fluoride displaces hydroxide from the outer layer of tooth enamel, converting hydroxyapatite to fluoroapatite, which is more resistant to dissolution by acid.

it's entirely innocuous in typical doses, but it can disrupt bone deposition (leading to remodeled bone being weaker and more prone to fractures) in higher levels. really only a health issue if you drink lots of fluoridated tap water and swallow your toothpaste twice a day.
spit your toothpaste out when you're done brushing and you'll be fine. if you really care, get a filter pitcher and drink from that; Brita will keep you safe from all that Jewish fluoride.

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>>7846889
I actually worked in a small water plant and had to hook up the huge barrels to a drip system. I didn't live in the town for long though.

I hear tell since most of the Al manufacture has been outsourced to China now we here in the Americas actually import the toxic waste and by product of that process at cost just to keep adding it to the water supply!

Meanwhile you act like the Romans never thought they were really smart using lead water pipes, a problem still ongoing today in many parts of the world. Your world, what color is the sky? Rose?

Let's use some logic

The government does the bare minimum in terms of expense and energy. Due to lobbying, the government rarely interferes with businesses.

Why would the government waste the time and energy to add fluoride to the water supply when that prevention of cavities would hurt the profits of the dental industry?

Adding fluoride costs the government money. Letting citizens have cavities increases business for dental offices, which gives the government more money in terms of taxes.

If you can't understand that the government uses fluoride as a method to control its citizens then you've probably ingested to much fluoride yourself.

>>7846926
/pol/ is getting "reddit-tier" according to their inhabitants

by this they mean it's no longer a skinhead circlejerk so instead of defending their dumbshit opinions and getting BTFO on their own board they've gone back to shitting up all the other boards.

I'm amazed OP didn't ask to be redpilled on Fluoride

>>7846926
>increase in tinfoilers on /sci/ recently?
To be fair, it seems to be a global trend.

>And those people vote, mind you.

>>7847057
>I have no understanding of chemistry
>Seriously, I just don't [math] get [/math] concentrations.

How's chlorination, then?
Fresh out of the tap, my water has quite a strong unpleasant smell of chlorine that dissipates quickly. Still, it tastes nasty and I don't really want to drink it.

>>7848003

Chlorine is there to prevent bacteria growth.

>>7848003
Boil it.
Or fill a pot and let it sit overnight.
Or use an ion exchange filter.

>>7846771
>sketchy, weak, and contradicting data
Water fluoridation is one of the few example of science done correctly. The made observations, they made hypothesi, they formed experiments to test between the hypothesi, the experiments were repeated.

We have 100 years of good science backing water fluoridation.

>>7846771
I live on a first world nation with American-trained dentists and orthodontists with no fluoride or chlorine. Everyone has shit teeth and no-one trusts the tap-water.

>>7846771
To prevent dental decay.

Much like why is pool water chlorinated? To prevent the growth of bacteria.

Much of the problem stems from muh conspiracies that are made up to bait scientifically illiterate people. I understand your suspicion but the technique is scientifically proven

>>7848021
anecdotal evidence is the best kind of scientific evidence

>>7848026
alright then, why aren't you supposed to swallow toothpaste?

>>7848368
Because it will give you diarrhea.

>>7847057
> Skin: Copious amounts of water for 15 minutes
You can do that but the answer is always getting a doctor and telling him that the antidote is called calcium gluconate (I was told that doctors who don't treat chemists regurlarly usually don't know their chemistry, so you better be ready to tell them), and that they need to inject it into your affected body spots with a syringe. HF on your skin always means that some of it will have gotten into your body as well, and that is usually not a neglible amount.

>>7847043
I have a Brita filter at home. Kinda curious how they look from the inside. Will probably cut one open but I assume the thread will have died by then. I suppose it is just an ion exchange filter.

>>7848510
hydrofluoric and hydrofluosilicic acid are two different things. Moreover, it's the dose that makes the poison. There are maximum acceptable levels of all sorts of bad things, like cadmium and lead. These will always be present in some extremely minute amounts. There's no avoiding it, but it's not like it's harmful in sufficiently small quantities. Grow some balls. There are bigger issues that are killing you faster.

I'm in the EU. Water is not fluoridated here, but I do use fluoridated toothpaste (but considering to change).

If I lived in a country with fluoridated water, I'd make sure to get a de-fluoridation filter.

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>>7846859
>claims /sci/ is "afraid of chemistry"
>doesn't know basic chemistry himself
Fluorine is highly reactive.

Fluoride, however, is not.

They are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.

Learn basic relative redox strength, faggot. This is high school shit.

And go back to >>>/pol/ while you're at it, you fucking faggot.

>>7846837
?
You know theres bene literally zero studies on water fluoridation in the US?
Meanwhile its a billion dollar industry that involves literally putting toxic industrial waste in the water supply

>>7847043
>it's entirely innocuous in typical doses
Thats entirely incorrect
It's a toxic posion that bio accumulates, there is no safe dosage

>>7848559
I'm in the USA. 70% of our water sources have fluoride removed from them because the natural levels are higher than the recommended levels.

Have you checked to see what the natural levels of fluoride are in your water sources? I know most of the fancy bottle waters from EU have some level of fluoride.

>>7848573
>zero studies on water fluoridation
>concludes it's a toxic poison, there is no safe dosage
???

does not compute

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>>7846771
> big name fluoridationists.
Name one.

>>7848020
>The made observations,
They made observations that places with calcium fluoride had no fucking teeth left

>they made hypothesi
Which ignored the fact that high levels of calcium were in the water too

>they formed experiments to test between the hypothesi
They did nothing of the sort, they pulled some arbitrary number out of their asses, 1mg/l
as the optimal fluoride in water

And we've run with that ever since.
Theres been no studies on the effects of that, theres been no studies on whether fluorosilisic acid works the same as calcium fluoride, theres been no studies on the effects of steady daily fluoride exposure, etc.

Most importantly, water fluoridation has zero correlation with any lower rate of cavities.
Zero benefit(dentists admit this), potentially huge costs......

>>7848578
Fluoride IS a toxic poison, fucking retard

>>7848557
> There are bigger issues that are killing you faster.
And yet, if the government is literally paying billions to add industrial waste to the water, that does things like causes all sorts of issues in your body, for zero conceivable benefit

Do you think this isn't a real issue?

The people getting serious skeletal fluorosis in india are not being exposed to much more fluoride than anyone in the west.

>>7848573
the history of adding fluoride to water is interesting.

some dentists were taking a survey of dental health across the country, and came across some hillbillies with fugly teeth. But these hillbillies had no cavities. After finding a few communities like this the dentists realized that the hillbillies were all drinking unfiltered mountain water. The water got analyzed, and in every case ugly cavity free teeth correlated with high levels of fluoride in the water.

After about 20 years of study, the dentists came up with a level of fluoride that maximized tooth protection while simultaneously minimizing fugly teeth.

>>7848587
you skipped about 20 years of experimentation.

>>7848587
>fucking retard
I can see the /pol/tard is getting upset that people aren't taking his tinfoil bullshit seriously.

Btw, your claim that "there is no safe dose of fluoride" is absurd on its face. First thing you learn in toxicology is that the dose makes the poison.

>>7847937
>Letting citizens have cavities increases business for dental offices, which gives the government more money in terms of taxes.
high rates of illness reduce worker productivity, lowering taxes overall
don't believe everything you hear on the intertubes

>>7848605
>>7848608
>Thinks what people considered "safe" in the 50's is the same as today

Here in toronto they recently halved the amount of fluoride in the water supply

You know the majority of teens have dental fluorosis?

>>7848017
>boil it
>thinking boiling does something other than keep the heavy metals and evaporate the water

You need to distill water to remove metals.

I get that putting whatever unnecessary shit in the water is retarded but is fluoride/toothpaste an sich not even good for your teeth?

>>7848611
dental fluorosis is the goal of water fluoridation. it is a physical sign that your teeth are creating a protective coating of hexaphorhafsomethingorother

the trick is to minimize it,

>>7848587
>Wife works for dentist in hippie town.
>Everyone riding this bandwagon your on.
>Kids eat kale and bone broth 24/7
>no fluorine, de-everything water, toothpaste

Literately spends 6-7 hours a week in a hospital drilling ad fixing kids who have multiple teeth pulled and cavities. They have to anesthetize these kids because the work cannot be done with them awake.

>parents flabbergasted when doctor prescribes a fluoride pill to these parents.

Admittedly, this fluoridation process is only good until a certain age

>>7848621
No its the physical sign of you getting way too much fluoride, which is a TOXIC POISON, and having those effects THROUGHOUT YOUR BODY

Because when you ingest something, it doesn't go to your fucking teeth

>>7848623
>perscribing fluoride pills to children
People like you should be killed

>>7848623
I had some teeth pulled with local anaesthesia and I can see how it could be pretty traumatizing for a little kid desu.

>>7848628
Maybe the little dipshits should have brushed their teeth

>>7848627
>muh day of the rope
>>>/pol/

>>7848557
>hydrofluosilicic
Oh fuck, how could I have misread that. I'll show myself the house to jump from, then. Still, isn't hydrofluosilicic acid hydrolysed and forms HF under certain conditions?

On an unrelated note, admittedly I couldn't find anything helpful about it (didn't check for long desu) and it is not relevant to the thread, but my anorganic chem prof told me that estrogen and progesterone can be detected in most of the tap water, and since the age of puberty onset for females decreased in the last few decades, this is one hypothetical cause for this.

>>7848624
As >>7848557 already said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison
Just think about the following: Arsenobetaine is speculated to have a higher LD50 than natrium chloride, which you consume everyday (and not everyone consumes it in still healthy amounts).

He doesn't know the biological effects of fluoride, but he's CONVINCED it's a deadly poison with no safe dose. Cute.

>>7848611
>dental fluorosis
a purely cosmetic disorder except in the most severe cases. basically, you have funny white patches on your teeth but they're really cavity-resistant.
you act like it's some horrible disease

>>7848624
>Because when you ingest something, it doesn't go to your fucking teeth
yes it does. we have ways of excreting fluoride, but it tends to be incorporated into the bones and teeth due to their chemistry. unless you've got insanely high levels of fluoride in your bones, there are NO ill effects.

>>7848627
>>>/pol/

>>7848635
I thought puberty was due to body fat percentage. This is why fat girls get puberty early, and thin girls get it late.

Olympic level gymnasts will keep their bf% so low, that many of them won't have their first period until they retire in their 20s.

The moderns early onset of puberty is due to the modern early onset of obesity.

>>7848587
And for you again: There is no non-poisonous substance on this whole world. Neither oxygen, nor helium, nor proteines, nor water lack an upper bound for when they start to reduce your live span.

>>7848635
> desu
How the fuck did I put that in, desu I am sure I wrote t.b.h without dots?

>>7848652
not sure what you mean desu

>>7848638
Dumping fluoride in a water supply is not a controlled dosing of anyone
Nor do they have any clue what a safe dosage of fluoride is. Nor is putting shit in the water supply a way to prevent cavities in your teeth.

>>7848644
>unless you've got insanely high levels of fluoride in your bones, there are NO ill effects.

How can you say that when NOONE checks for this shit in the west, and it mimicks things like arthritis/osteoporosis

>we have ways of excreting fluoride
No we don't, it either passes through or collects in bones/pineal gland.

You seem to think you are making a real argument when you say this ~hurr only the dose matters~, when you have no clue what anyone ingests on a daily basis.
What a safe level is
Or what the effects of 5-10 mg daily will have after 20-30 years of ingesting it.

>>7848646
Again, I do not have any specific knowledge or sources to quote on that, I trust my prof to not spew bullshit but then again this is not really his field either. So this might be one factor. But, from what I remember from my biology course in "high school" (different country here), puberty is triggered when the concentration of hormones increases in your blood... by whatever that is triggered. He asserted that the concentration in water is very low, but hormones aren't destroyed in after taking the pill or whatever else, so they just stay in water and bring a female body to puberty not so far to trigger it suddenly, but it happens earlier and the existence of hormones in water might be one (not the single one) reason for that.

>>7848652
Anon encounters word filters: The Post

Welcome to 4chan t b h f a m

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>>7848659
>when you have no clue what anyone ingests on a daily basis.
>What a safe level is
>Or what the effects of 5-10 mg daily will have after 20-30 years of ingesting it.
and neither do you
yet you act like this disproves his point AND proves your point
you can't have your cake and eat it too, chucklefuck

>Dumping fluoride in a water supply is not a controlled dosing of anyone
now I'm imagining two government agents trying desperately to act unsuspicious while they're throwing barrels of fluoride into the local lake
you really think they do this, don't you?

>>7848659
> Dumping fluoride in a water supply is not a controlled dosing of anyone
You seem to forget something. The concentration of something in a solution can be measured, almost everything can be quantified for concentrations smaller than ppb. Some countries have laws for what makes any natural water source qualified for use as drinking / tap / mineral water.

Are you asserting no one cares about checking for fluorides (any CE or IC analysis should handle that for pretty much every ion) or are you asserting it is willfully ignored?

>>7848677 (Checked)
Thanks farn. I thought writing desu was a sci thing I just did not get because of not being here often enough.

>>7848659
>Dumping fluoride in a water supply is not a controlled dosing of anyone

It is controlled in the sense that it is virtually impossible to consume enough to hurt you.

>Nor do they have any clue what a safe dosage of fluoride is.

Sure they do. Lots of science has been done on this.

>Nor is putting shit in the water supply a way to prevent cavities in your teeth.

It literally is.

Is there any study that shows an actual improvement of dental health with more fluoride?

Also, if you have learned some chemistry, it should be easy to see that
[math]\rm F ^- + \rm{HCl} \rightarrow \rm{Cl}^- + \rm{HF}[/math].
You've got hydrochloric acid in your stomach and it's a stronger acid than hydrofluoric acid. Thus HF should get formed in your stomach. And HF is definitely NOT healthy.

>>7848573

>You know theres bene literally zero studies
>that involves literally putting toxic industrial waste in the water supply


Yes, we get it, fluoride is literally toxic

Now will you just literally fuck off

>>7848684
>you really think they do this, don't you?
They literally do have barrels of fluoride in water treatment plants, enough to kill every single person they serve water to

>and neither do you
The majority of teens have dental fluorosis, this is the first signs of fluoride poisoning

It is not a "harmless cosmetic effect", its a deep chemical change in your teeth, making it weaker & more brittle.

>>7848694
? Are you a retard?
How is fluoride in the water, a consistant dose for any person?
Every drinks different amounts of water
You absorb fluoride through your skin when you bath in it
It accumulates when you boil water

Only fluoride is treated in this incredibly loose & risky manner, likely because of entrenched interests who have made careers telling people fluoride is safe.
Only recently did they put labels on Toothpaste that fluoride is a poison, despite there being a lethal amount of fluoride in it for a kid.

>>7848577
This, my local water supply isn't fluoridated since fluoride levels are already above the recommended level.
>>7848587
EVERYTHING is a toxic poison at high enough levels... fucking retard

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>>7848604

littorally bro... littorally

>>7848745
>Don't be afraid of phosgene, it's harmless
>Everything is a toxic poison at high enough levels

>>7848745
>EVERYTHING is a toxic poison at high enough levels... fucking retard

??? Therefore fluoride is A-ok and we'll just pretend noone has ever gotten fluoride poisoning?
That some arbitrary number made up in the 40's/50's is the end all be all?

A number made up by DENTISTS, who neither knew nor cared about the effect on your health from that fluoride?

>>7848646
Fat tissue produces estrogens, so I can see a link.

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>>7848743
>They literally do have barrels of fluoride in water treatment plants
OH MY GOSH
THEY STORE THEM IN BARRELS?!?
WATER TREATMENT PLANTS CONFIRMED FOR BLINDLY DUMPING IT INTO THE WATER WITH NO CONTROL OVER DOSAGES
THE WAY THEY STORE IT IS ALL THE EVIDENCE ONE WOULD EVER NEED TO CONFIRM THIS OBVIOUS FACT

>>7848757
>??? Therefore fluoride is A-ok and we'll just pretend noone has ever gotten fluoride poisoning?

Could you please explain the saying "the dose makes the poison" in your own words? Just humor me.

>>7848767
You don't see any issue with keeping large stockpiles of poison at every fucking water supply plant in the US?

>>7848769
Do you have a point, or are you just going to repeat this meaningless phrase?

My favorite part about this conspiracy theory is that isn't even "the government" (i.e. the federal government) that supplies tap water. It's a municipal utility. So these people actually believe that all these little town and county local governments are separately engaged in mind control.

>>7848776
>this meaningless phrase

See, this worries me, because it's not a meaningless phrase. Is that really what you think?

>>7848778
>Anyone who disagrees with authority figures is a conspiracy theorist

This is how you can spot an absolute retard

>>7848701
>It literally is
I find that if you have to say this phrase, the discussion is not worth it.

>>7848776
>thinks he's qualified to discuss anything about toxicology
>thinks concepts like dose, LD50 and PELs are "meaningless"
brain yourself bud.

>>7848778
That's what they want you to think. That it's all split in small parts. But in reality it is all controlled by one entity.

Are there actually any studies that prove an improvement in dental health over areas where there is less (to no) fluoride in the water? (And that first part of this post was sarcastic.)

>>7848789

Who are you quoting?

>>7848795
>If it doesn't kill me, then it's 100% a-ok to consume

good to know

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>>7848776
oh GOD
POISON you say?
that's even WORSE than I thought
not only is it TOXIC, it's also POISON?
you're saying they're storing TOXIC POISON in BARRELS??????????
lawdy, think of the CHILDREN literally drinking TOXIC POISON straight from the BARRELS
why does NOONE do SOMETHING about these POISONS in our TOXICS
and WHY can't I stop CAPITALIZING words at random INTERVALS
you think THIS might be contagious?
maybe I SHOULD stockpile SOME more TOXIC POISON fluoride in BARRELS, just in case

>>7848789
>the country bumpkin deputy mayor who decided to fluoridate a hamlet's water supply is clearly under the influence of NWO one-world government to sap precious bodily fluids.
Sure.

>>7848804
>Clearly has no idea that lobbying exists
If water fluoridation is so beneficial, how come literally zero evidence exists to suggest that? And why do dentists admit it doesn't benefit anything?

Why are DENTISTS in charge of putting shit in the water supply?

>>7848800
You're the one who is failing to make the distinction between beneficial dose, harmful dose and lethal dose.

>>7848814
What's the NOAEL of fluoride?

>>7848814
? Is it too much to expect the people who buy industrial waste and put it in the water supply might have some idea what a beneficial dose, harmful dose, and lethal dose is?

This is ignoring that PUTTING FLUORIDE IN THE WATER SUPPLY IS NOT A CONTROLLED DOSAGE FOR ANYONE!
And that it's approaching levels that cause serious problems over long term exposure, as seen in china/india.

>>7848825
Some of you guys seem to be implying that the motive for putting fluoride in the water supply is to get rid of industrial waste. Why wouldn't they just dump it in the rivers at similar concentrations if they just wanted to get rid of some waste?

>>7848831
? Not "seems to be implying"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexafluorosilicic_acid
This is literally where the majority of fluoride in the US comes from, unprocessed industrial waste.

Why don't we dump all our waste into the ocean/river? Because it's illegal, and controlled, and people will go to prison for that shit.

>>7848831

It does seem spectacularly inefficient, doesn't it?

>>7848852
>>7848831
Also rather than those industries paying the government to take care of their waste
Now the government pays THEM for the privilege of taking their waste, then dumping it into the water supply.

That is the reality of the water fluoridation scam

>>7848852

You don't see any flaws in that logic?

>>7848861
What flaw? They get rid of their waste legally, at profit
Vs highly illegally, at their own expense

>>7848869
If they can make up safe numbers to allow them to dispose of it, why not make up a significantly larger number? If the end goal is to dispose of waste

>>7848876
Because its already an unsafe number, and going higher would have immediate noticeable effects

>>7846771
Well for one fluoride inhibits biofilm production of a number of microbes.

>>7846840
This is incorrect. The fluoride helps break down biofilm you can't brush off.

>>7848881
Raisins have approximately 4 times the concentration of fluoride ions. I fucking love raisins and eat them almost every day. Why am I not sick yet.

>>7848887
how many KG do you eat per day

>>7848902
It's about 200g per scoop from my container which has about 50 servings. So about 800g. I also drink tap water, eat craisins and potatoes. You're going to have to take my word for it.

>>7848852
>This is literally where the majority of fluoride in the US comes from, unprocessed industrial waste.

It's not "waste," it's a by-product. Like helium is a by-product of natural gas extraction, salt is a by-product of desalination, or a million other examples. Why would they simply throw it out if it has uses? "OMG IT COMES FROM AN INDUSTRIAL PROCESS" is not as shocking as you seem to think it is.

>>7848908
No doubt the pancreatic cancer will get you before the skeletal fluorosis kicks in
And i doubt the hormonal problems or lower IQ will be noticeable to you.

>>7848915
DUDE ITS AN "INDUSTRIAL CHEMICAL"

THEREFORE IF U DRINK IT ITS LIKE DRINKING BLEACH

>>7848922
I'm not sick though. So explain why you think people ingesting 10x less are supposedly getting sick.

>>7848610
cavities=/=illness
cavities=/=time missed from work
cavities=/=lowered productivity

look at low paying jobs, such as the fast food industry. these low paying jobs are often under heavy scrutiny as they require workers to come in sick, risking exposure to other workers and customers. employers don't care about sick employees.

plus, dental is rarely covered under any health insurance policy. that's usually optional for lower wage employees, and because they're lower wage the only time they see a dentist is when they need a tooth pulled.

there is no loss of productivity, at all.

>GUYS
>GUYS
Dude that fluoridation stuff is messed up but GUESS WHAT
They're adding poison to OUR FOOD
>POISON
>ADD
>FOOD
BUT IT'S WORSE THAN YOU THINK
There's many POISONS being added to your food in many ways
Enjoy Tabasco sauce?
>WELL THEN ENJOY YOUR POISON
That capsasin or whatever it's called that makes it spicy is a deadly POISON
Don't believe me just look up how they handle it industrially when making pepper spray
>FULL HAZMAT SUIT

But there's more
Do you like salmon
>MERCURY
The poison of all poisons is found in high concentrations in tuna salmon halibut and many other popular fishes which are often considered HEALTH food

But that's not even the worst
You already know that there's acid in soda and that's bad for you but soda shares the newest in tasty poison with coffee and chocolate
>PESTICIDE
There's pesticide in your soda coffee and chocolate
It's not even causally disregarded but rather is a selling point
>"caffein will wake you up" or maybe it'll put you to sleep forever

So too are there poisons in pickles garlic onions ect but I can't list all of these


The point is
>every poison without exception has a safe dose and many poisons especially of simple chemistry have useful effects in small doses

>>7848852
>This is literally where the majority of fluoride in the US comes from, unprocessed industrial waste.
Sure I get that, that's not what my post was about, "motive" being the key word.

>>7848950
Holy fuck my sides

>>7848950
>have no clue what a safe dosage of fluoride is
>thinks putting fluoride in water supply ensures a controlled dosage to EVERYONE
>has no idea what beneficial effect fluoride in water supply might bring
>resorts to shitposting because he has no argument beyond being a fucking shill

To prevent people from getting cavities because we're fatfucks who eat a bunch of sugary crap.

Primitive societies that don't eat sugary crap don't really have this problem

>>7848950
>many poisons especially of simple chemistry
>simple chemistry
What is that supposed to mean?

>have useful effects in small doses
You just made that up.

Fluoride ions replace hydroxide ions in the surface of your enamel. This actually strengthens them and does repair damage from acid and bacteria.

Things like chlorine or iodine cause worse discoloration and weaker enamel

>>7848959
I don't know the safe dosage
I don't think everyone will get even a somewhat similar dose
I do know what it'll do (decrease cavities)
I post for my own amusement and nothing else

>>7848972
>I do know what it'll do (decrease cavities)
It doesn't do that
You know that europe doesn't fluoridate their water supply, yes?

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What's an image board.

>>7848950
>But there's more
>Do you like salmon
>>MERCURY
>The poison of all poisons is found in high concentrations in tuna salmon halibut and many other popular fishes which are often considered HEALTH food
This is actually a pretty poignant problem yea

>>7848963
Hydrogen sulfide and hydrogen cyanide are though to be beneficial in ppm tier concentrations (Wikipedia)
Lithium is thought to be beneficial in ppm tier concentrations (Wikipedia)
Strontium is thought to be good for you in ppm tier concentrations ...
Do you see where this is going

>>7848975
Because we're not fucking retards who just put medicinal shit in fucking drinking water. But we do brush our teeth with fluoridatizised toothpaste tho.

>>7848975
I don't know how well it prevents cavities but I am as certain as one who must assume that the universe exists can be that it does to an extent which is measurable

answer me this one question

of all the things government can literally force down peoples throats why fluoride and not not Vitamin C?

I mean if someone drinks a lot of tea, uses fluoridated toothpaste and mouthwash it's VERY easy to overdose on fluoride which can have tooth malformation and osteoporosis. But Vitamin C has no negative effects from having too much.

>>7848984
>though to be
So no proof.

Mercury, most heavy metals,chlorine, fluorine, potassium cyanide etc. are all poisons with "simple chemistry" and none of these are beneficial in any way.
(I was listing up more toxins but I couldn't post due to "Connection error." until i removed them..)

>>7848984
Ionizing radiation is "thought" to be beneficial in small doses because it stimulates the production of antioxidants.

This however is like saying a bullet to the shoulder is healthy for you because it stimulates cell healing.

>>7849000
>>7849010
Yet again I'm not saying fluoride is good for you in small concentrations I'm just pointing out that there's no reason to assume its not

Potassium cyanide is though to be beneficial in ppm tier concentrations
The most similar thing to fluoride listed is chlorine which is not toxic whatsoever in small concentrations (sub ppt?)

You conspiracy theorists are fucking retarded.

Fluoride helps prevent tooth decay.

>>7848997
>of all the things government

Again, let's keep in mind we're talking about local governments here.

>can literally force down peoples throats

Well no, not "literally" that at all. You don't have to drink tap water if you don't want to.

>why fluoride and not not Vitamin C?

Well, lots of reasons. We can start with the fact that you would need to supply insane amounts of vitamin C to have any kind of effect. But with fluoride it's just the tiniest trace, so small that it's actually already naturally present (along with lots of other minerals in similar concentrations) in spring water in many places.

>I mean if someone drinks a lot of tea, uses fluoridated toothpaste and mouthwash it's VERY easy to overdose on fluoride

It's actually extremely difficult.

Flouride has been officially clasified as a neurotoxin. Of course, for those people who are already awake, we've known this for years. There is very weak evidence that it may help your teeth, but there is very strong evidence that it hurts your brain and lowers your IQ in a dose-dependent manner. It has no right it water. Drinking water as a delivery mechanism for medicine? That's out-of-this-world assanine.

>>7846778
This is true... except I can't find any tangible evidence the Nazi's used it. Love to have a link if you got one.

>>7849059
Link to "study"

Here are 49 studies that demonstrate a link between flouride and reduced IQ.

http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/

Time to use activism in your city to get toxins out of your water!

>>7848997
>10g of fluoride in a day is fatal
Fluoridated tapwater has .08mg/L

>two sentences into the post there's literally a "wake up sheeple"
post discarded

>>7849064
Please see >>7849073

Also,
>Since 2006, epidemiological studies have documented six additional developmental neurotoxicants—manganese, fluoride, chlorpyrifos, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, tetrachloroethylene, and the polybrominated diphenyl ethers.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3/fulltext#article_upsell

>>7849059
>Flouride has been officially clasified as a neurotoxin.

What do you think the expression "the dose makes the poison" means?

>>7849084
it is also determined to be safely ingested with no deleterious effects in the following amounts
>adult 10mg/day
>child 2.2mg/day
>infant 0.7mg/day
The amount of water needed per day was taken into account when the fluoridization process began. Hyperhydrosis will kill you way before the fluoride does.

>>7849074

You're telling me it's not safe to drink an entire swimming pool?!?!?!?

>>7849132
Yeah you'll have to swim across

>>7849085

There's really no safe dose for a neurotoxin. Why even risk it? It's not like flouride is some magic chemical that stops all dental carries. Rates of cavaities are really no different between nations that flouridate and those that don't. The effect is negligible. Why consume known neurotoxins for minimal/no benefit? It doesn't make sense.

>>7849153
>There's really no safe dose for a neurotoxin

But that's not correct, good sir.

>>7849104
Okay, well guess what? The complaint isn't that those "low dosages" will kill you. The complaints are that flouride is a neurotoxin. Why risk fucking up your brain for virtually no benefit? Fluoridation does not correlate to a significant decrease in cavaties relative to areas that don't fluoridate. Besides, if we're going to consider something like water flouridation, you know what the first concern is? Does it improve public safety. If not, it should not be done. Obviously it doesn't because we know it can fuck with your brain. Get it out of the water!!

Why don't we put flu vaccine in the water supply. If everyone is vaccinated then we'll have effectively cured the flu.

>>7849167
Care to elucidate?

>>7848616
Pretty sure chlorine is not a metal, and that it evaporates at lower temperatures than water.

>>7848586

It's always the government or TOP MEN.

Don't engage the crazy just distract them with how the vape fad is just a way to up the dose of certain chemicals now that smoking is banned from so much.

That way they're worried about that instead of fucking up education or demanding resources be spent on that morganelle's "disease".

>>7849180
We never medicate water supplies, it's a conspiracy.

>>7846840
Fluoride in toothpaste is fine, because you spit it out.
And it puts fluoride directly on your teeth, which actually benefits your teeth, unlike swallowing the fluoride.

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>>7848659
>>we have ways of excreting fluoride
>No we don't, it either passes through or collects in bones/pineal gland.
it passes through BECAUSE WE HAVE WAYS OF EXCRETING FLUORIDE. It's filtered out from the bloodstream by the kidneys. Even that which is deposited in bone isn't permanently bound, and is liberated through bone remodeling. More importantly, it doesn't build up in soft tissues.
>no clue what anyone ingests on a daily basis
this has been studied extensively
>What a safe level is
this has been studied as well
>Or what the effects of 5-10 mg daily will have after 20-30 years of ingesting it.
we've actually got wonderful studies of this from communities that drank from naturally fluoride-rich groundwater. the safe dose is 6mg a day or so, which is well above that which is supplied by fluoridated water.

>>7848810
>If water fluoridation is so beneficial, how come literally zero evidence exists to suggest that?
literally non-zero evidence senpai

>>7848931
YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE IS AN INDUSTRIAL CHEMICAL? DHMO

>>7848944
>cavities don't reduce productivity
good luck getting your job done while you're waiting to have your root canal scheduled.

>>7848959
>WE JUST CAN'T KNOW HOW MUCH FLUORIDE IS SAFE OR HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE GETTING
>NO DON'T TELL ME, I DON'T WANT TO KNOW
>BECAUSE WE CAN'T KNOW

>>7848997
>why fluoride and not not Vitamin C?
Vitamin C is extremely unstable in water and breaks down quickly.

>>7849000
>Mercury, most heavy metals,chlorine, fluorine, potassium cyanide etc. are all poisons with "simple chemistry" and none of these are beneficial in any way.
>chlorine
>not beneficial in any way
do you have any idea how membrane potential works?

>>7849084
>six additional developmental neurotoxicants—manganese
so we shouldn't consume any manganese either? that's funny; it's an essential trace nutrient, and YOU WILL DIE without some intake of it.
THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON, NIGGA

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>>7849153
>>7849174
as stated above, manganese is a neurotoxin in large doses but entirely safe and indeed essential in small doses. and there ARE significant effects of fluoridation on rates of dental caries.

>>7849366
My hero

>>7848729
>HF exists
Dude... what the fuck are you smoking, and you realise that the equation your provides doesn't increase acidity.

>>7848573
>toxins cannot have safe levels
Then we'd die from any exposure to any toxins.
>bioaccumulate
This isn't a heavy metal, show me your paper.


The recent reviews on floridation show that the very small risk of cognitive impairment ( estimated at a few IQ points (1-2) ) is not worth the also mild decrease in infection and dental intervention...

i posted my link weeks ago feel free to just PUBMED your questions from now onplebs.

>>7849366
Okay, we get it. You're defending flouride in the water. You did a lot of "debunking," but what's your argument FOR putting flouride in drinking water supplies?

>>7849818
Wow, you're a dishonest little shit. What a surprise.

>>7849369
>and there ARE significant effects of fluoridation on rates of dental caries.

[Citation Needed]

You say manganese is essential. It does participate in important reactions necessary for optimal health. You know what chemical is not essential and participates in no biological reactions essential to life? Flouride. So you are argument FOR forcing a population to ingest a nonessential chemical via water flouridation. You better have some damn good evidence to support this. On top of that, the primary concern in this situation should be "Does water fluoridation improve public safety." It does not. There are several risks involved with water fluoridation. And importantly, none the of so called benefits (purportedly the prevention of dental carries) result from ingestion of flouride - any benefit comes from topical application.

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Idk about fluoride but the tap water here in eastern US is shit. It smells like chemicals and tastes pretty shit. If you boil it you can see some disgusting residue on the walls of the kettle.

I've resorted to drinking >bottled spring water
which may or may not be worse but at least it tastes ok and doesn't smell like shit.

Fluoride free toothpaste also has some additional benefits other than being fluoride free. For example, it doesn't have any bullshit coloring, sodium lauryl sulfate (the shit they put in shampoos to make your hair more shiny, it's literally just a coat for shininess), and bunch of other silicone.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything, I doubt the "govmint" is actively "poisoning" people with fluoride but I sleep better knowing I'm not near that shit.

>>7849854
Forgot to mention the foaming agent they put in regular toothpaste.

>>7848961
primitive societies drank their unfiltered river waters that had natural occurring fluoride.

>>7848975
doesn't europe fluoride their salt?

>>7848997
vitamin c overdoses are a real problem when you drink 10 of those asian energy drinks. the vit c ones, not the ginseng ones.

>>7849856
Usually calcium and magnesium deposit, which are not toxic. water plants can't completely filter the water so a lot of places get hard water. Fluoride levels in the water are so low it doesn't even matter, shit gets either used by the body or expelled at a faster rate than is consumed.
>>7849856
I agree with this, though. Stuff is annoying, and it gets everywhere.

>>7849073
>http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/
Havign actually read several of those china studies, I can conclusively state that they were about arsenic levels in water, not fluoride.

While that does not disprove all of the studies, if this site is willing to lie about a few, then you can't trust any.

>>7849875
Also, I'm pretty sure the hard water is the cause of my seborrhea dermatitis. I've never had it until I moved to an area with hard water.

>hurr durr places that don't add fluoride don't have different cavity rates
The reason the dont add fluoride is because the water already has enough

>>7849881
If you swam in a natural creek or running water spots, you'd get the same effect. Creeks and streams have a lot of dissolved minerals like your bath water. Just put some lotion on your skin and you'll be fine.

>>7849882
or it has too much, and they remove some instead.

>Leave /sci/ for a year cause college
>Come back
>/pol/ tards everywhere

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>>7849841
>[Citation Needed]
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0003996975900679
>none the of so called benefits (purportedly the prevention of dental carries) result from ingestion of flouride - any benefit comes from topical application.
aaand WRONG. having fluoride in your mouth from brushing helps for a few minutes. when you drink fluoridated water, you get low (extremely far below the level of toxicity) levels of fluoride in your bloodstream. this results in small but significant concentrations of fluoride being present in your saliva, constantly bathing your teeth in small amounts of fluoride. also, while high levels of fluoride can impair proper bone formation, the low levels associated with drinking fluoridated tap water are actually mildly BENEFICIAL to bone strength.

>Flouride
>dental carries
if we're going to do this, would it kill you to correctly spell the key terms involved?

>>7849920
it's definitely worse than it used to be.
it used to be
>/sci/ - Religion and Homework
but now it's just
>/sci/ - Climate Change and Flat Earths

>>7849939
>Flat earths
Has it really gotten that bad?

>>7850001
sadly yes

>>7846771
If you drink anything with Flouride in it already, like Tea, it could stain your teeth, that's actually how it was discovered.

>>7849425
>>HF exists
>doesn't increase acidity
What did you mean by that?
Clearly, HF is being produced in your stomach if you ingest fluoride ions. That's basic chemistry you learn in school (a weak acid is formed off its anions by a stronger acid).

Even in low amounts, HF in your body is not good.

>is not worth the also mild decrease in infection and dental intervention
Because obviously, citizens cannot be trusted to brush their teeth. You do know that most nations do not fluoridate their water (and have low fluoride levels in their drinking water) and no more issues with dental health than the USA, don't you?

>>7849854
>sodium lauryl sulfate
>make your hair more shiny
That's not what it's for. It's a surfactant.

>>7849876
WTF are you talking about. You can read all the abstracts on that page. They all deal with flouride. 49 studies show that the more flouride you ingest, the lower your IQ. There are over 100 animal studies that show the same effect.

>>7850794
>You do know that most nations do not fluoridate their water (and have low fluoride levels in their drinking water) and no more issues with dental health than the USA, don't you?

This x100.

Other nations that don't flouridate have no correlation to more cavaities than countries that do.

So,

PROs: Very small to insignificant impact on dental health

CONs: Flouride is a neurotoxin that bioaccumulates in brain tissue and throughout the body. 50 studies show that fluoride can reduce your IQ. The water supply is a horrible way to mass medicate - you cannot control the dose or who receives it. It does not improve public safety.

It's really hard to defend water fluoridation. The ones that are defending it here are probably shills, misinformed or believe in the logical fallacy that "we've always done it that way" is a valid argument.

It's funny how people "argue" against the anti-water fluoridation guys here and then assume that since they "proved" them wrong, that the answer is water fluoridation is right. It doesn't work like that. Example: You can prove an atheist's arguments wrong, but that does not mean "god exists" is the default correct answer. You have to prove that to be the case.

>>7849939
>are actually mildly BENEFICIAL to bone strength.

This is factually incorrect
It increases bone density, while making your bones weaker & more brittle.

It makes want to dismiss anything you say when you are repeating bullshit that was disproven in the fucking 60's.

So you are putting a toxin, that comes largely from unprocessed industrial waste, that accumulates in your body, and noone has any idea of its effects since we don't do studies on it, for negligible to zero benefit....

Doesn't make much sense.

In reality, water fluoridation is an old eugenics policy.

>>7849854
They are actively poisoning people, its been done before and it'll be done at other points.

Any place anyone does an honest appraisal of fluoride exposure by the average person will immediately reduce the amount of fluoride in the water supply.

The fact children shouldn't be exposed to any fluoride is alone reason why water shouldn't be fucking fluoridated.

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>>7848950
>FULL HAZMAT SUIT

>>7850847
>people who disagree with me are paid shills
I see you are lost
>>>/pol/

>>7851166
> i will call opinions that oppose me /pol/
>>>/r/eddit

>>7851194
>anyone who tells me to go back to my board is from reddit
Thanks for confirming you're from /pol/, friend!

Now go back there
>>>/pol/

>>7850970
I don't really care if the powers that be want to kill be off early, they have built a horrible world to live in anyway. What I fear is having my brain removed and turned into a drooling vegetable to feed the industrial drooling vegetable complex.

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So what's the verdict?

The research is clear. Fluouride does not belong in the water supply. If you want fluoride, use fluoridated toothpaste or add it to your own drinking water. Don't mass medicate the population against their will.

For those of you concerned about this chemical, you should know that fluoride also messes with your thyroid and thyroid hormones. Make sure you are getting iodine in your diet. Supplements or seaweeds like kelp and nori are good sources of iodine.

Furthermore, it is hard to avoid fluoride in your water. Filtration of fluoride is expensive. Regular filters wont do it. Distilled water does not have fluoride but it also lacks important minerals like calcium. Long term use of distilled water should be avoided as the water will suck minerals from your body and lead to deficiencies.

Keep pushing for progress. Never give up.

>>7851338
There may or may not be a benefit of fluoridation and it may or may not be poisoning you. It also may or may not be a part of a massive scheme. Who may or may not be the jews.

>>7850794
>You do know that most nations do not fluoridate their water (and have low fluoride levels in their drinking water) and no more issues with dental health than the USA, don't you?
But americans are retards who drink lots of soda and eat lots of sugary shit and don't brush their teeth well, you know that right?

>>7851388
>Don't mass medicate the population against their will.
Regardless of if it's good or not this should be enough. It's a basic human right.

>>7850958
>This is factually incorrect
>It increases bone density, while making your bones weaker & more brittle.
>It makes want to dismiss anything you say when you are repeating bullshit that was disproven in the fucking 60's.
um no.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jor.1100100413/abstract
>Fluoride had a positive effect on bone strength for lower fluoride intakes and a negative influence on bone strength for higher fluoride intakes....The increase in femoral strength at this fluoride level was not accompanied by an increase in femoral bone density. The optimal fluoride content is within the range of bone fluoride contents found in persons living in regions with fluoridated water (1 ppm) for > 10 years.
like I said, fluoride is good for bone strength in low levels even if it disrupts bone remodeling at higher doses.

>>7851388
But fluoride is in all water supplies. You dig a well, and there is fluoride. You find a river, and there is fluoride. You tap an underground aquifer, and there is fluoride.

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>tfw my country is white on this map
feels good

>>7851437
Like how calcium is bad for bones at higher levels.

Just like sodium and potassium, your body needs balance.

>>7846833
That explains a lot, then.

>>7850826
The English translations and the Chinese publications are different. Some hack goes through and puts in his own abstracts that do not reflect the actual data in the study.

>>7848609
Someone from /pol/ wouldn't use his choice of words, get your own boogeyman right.

>>7851428

This

>>7851194
>>7851219
There are staggering levels of irony in these posts.

>>7851499
?
Theres no fluoride in the ocean

>>7851388
>Long term use of distilled water should be avoided as the water will suck minerals from your body and lead to deficiencies.
Thsi is just as much a myth as the benefits of fluoridated water.
Another claim with no evidence
When you run the numbers, the amount of calcium in water is negligible.

You talk to any doctor on it, and they'd admit a couple month period on distilled water would be good, as it would clean you out better than normal water.

>>7851515

source you homo

>>7846784
this

>>7851428
This

The freedom to chose what medicine to put in your body (or not put in your body) is an intrinsic human right.

>>7851499
Yes, fluoride is often found naturally in water supplies and it can be problematic. If the concentration is too high, it must be filtered out. If it's very low, they don't always filter it. This is completely different than purposely adding fluoride (of which the source is a byproduct of aluminum and fertilizer industries, not some pharmaceutical plant somewhere) it to water supplies.

>>7851566
Just stop. This is not a language barrier problem we're dealing with. You know what you are saying is nonsense. Knock it off.

>>7846771
Dentis here.
>What's the point of water fluoridation
Literally nothing.I can go into how and why but you wouldn't care.

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>>7851840
>Dentis here

>2016
>living in the United Shits of America

Enjo)

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>>7846778
>calcification of the third eye
>third eye

Hippies should be hanged.

>>7851791
>Theres no fluoride in the ocean
but that's wrong you fucking retard dot bee em pee

>>7847937
Indeed. And the fact of that very conspiracy you describe explains why we are allowed to discuss it here. Oh wait, no it doesn't. A citizen controlling government that allows open talk like this is inconsistent with the conspiracy. Occam's Razor applies, I think.
Also, in Australia we have had one state Queensland opt out of fluoridation for long enough to have stats on dental caries to compare. Unsurprisingly, the rate of decay is higher in Qld than other states. And our health funding from gov't does NOT include dental (yet? ever?).

>>7846771
>in fear of getting attacked by big name fluoridationists
Why, I'm not afraid of that at all. Can you point me to each of these polities?

>>7848729
Where does the fluorine* ion come from?
* Or if I used the wrong noun for the ion, then F-

>>7848743
They have water at water treatment plants too, and people DROWN in water every year!
You need to get some kind of perspective on this. Like with vaccines: it is true that some small number of children DO have adverse reactions to vaccines. But this is much less damage than the negative consequences of not vaccinating. Thus, we vaccinate.

>>7851804
And why would your body need 'cleaning out'? Do you believe in 'de-toxing'?

>>7851791
>2016
>drinking sea water

enjoy your dehydration

>>7851837
>language barrier problem
I didn't say it was a language barrier problem, I said it was flagrant falsification of information.

>>7851428
I don't believe in any basic human rights.

>>7851428
Reminder that the reason that Indian children have so many deformities is because they don't put iodine in their salt.

>>7848860
Well yes - except that it is NOT a scam.
If you start from the position that something is a scam, then all the evidence you see will serve to prove your assumption.

>>7848944
People with constant nagging pain are as productive as others? Surely you jest.

>>7848944
bad teeth kill people.

>>7848801
>lawdy, think of the CHILDREN literally drinking TOXIC POISON straight from the BARRELS
I lost it.

>>7853155
From the tap water, duh.