French prepa vs the world

>>7753099
They don't give a shit about it, they don't even know it exist.

preparing for engineering is not doing engineering

you can't just ask to people "what do you think about this class that don't give me any diploma ?" and wait for any relevant answer

It is more relevant to ask "what does people around the world think about french system of engineering school ?"

I like the French engineering system because an engineer there is not limited to mechanical, electrical, chemical. Engineers coming out of places like Ecole Polytechnique could go on to do anything from math to physics to finance to politics.

>>7753099
I heard it's badass. However your education systems often has an image of something so bureaucratic that it's impossible to navigate in unless you were born in it. I think most students know mathematical education in France is second to none in the world, but they don't go for it because there's not enough PR about it. That's the only thing I'd change, and I think it is really necessary to attract talents from abroad.

>>7753293
>>Engineers coming out of places like Ecole Polytechnique could go on to do anything from math to physics to finance to politics.

That's because people that come from Ecole Polytechnique don't become engineer. It's difnitly not an engineering school.

Basicly it's supposed to be a military school, but even this is not really accurate.

People who are accepted at Ecole Polytechnic are very talented, but once they're in it, they almost don't study anymore. They just keep doing cocktails and some meetings, then later they become CEO or high functionnaries (a more politic related job). At the end very few people in école polytechnique keep doing sciences (and a lot of teacher see them as lazy dumbass).
People that go in this school, are greedy, looking for money and power, because it's what you get in France getting out from there.

There is École Centrale, Mines-Ponts, SupAéro ...etc that are really good engineering schools.

This French system is not exactly an engineering system, but a "high ranked schools" system (which is the closest traduction suitable of Grandes Écoles[Great Schools litteraly])

For example in this system, you have 2 school that are difinitly not engineering schools like École Polytechnique (money !) and Ecole Normale Supérieur (aiming for Research).

That's why thoses students can do anything from math to politics :/ because they're not intented to be engineers

>>7753099
been in prepa, French engineering school and in another school abroad, let's call it XYZ university

What I noticed is that the first two years are really what make a difference in the way an engineer works.
In XYZ university, the same method is applied to all students throughout undergrad and grad school.
All of my friends and I feel a difference in terms of knowledge, speed, efficiency.

The good thing about the french system is basically the preparatory classes.
Intensive math, intensive and broad physics, some sports.
This gives you insight in most of what happens in science and in engineering, because you know about mechanics, electricity, thermodynamics, waves, heat, fluid mechanics, chemistry, optics and you HAVE to relate them.
You are also evaluated regularily, which is something I didn't find in university XYZ. You have both written and oral examination on each topic you study, which gives you feedback on the way you learn, on how well you are currently doing, on what you can improve, and gives you a strength that few others have: speaking orally, efficiently, thinking on the spot.
The fact that you have to go through competitive exams after two years forces you to be fast, to be right on the first try, to understand deeply (if you want to do good).

CONT 1/2.

>>7753099
>>7753531
CONT 2/2


The real issue is after this, in engineering school, where frankly not much is done when compared to university XYZ for example. I hear that in the UK it's quite easy when compared to France, but where I am you really have to put in those hours. It gives you a lot of hands-on experience and research approach that you might just need. Not saying this is perfect, but it's different and I feel I needed most of it. Grad schools abroad should insist on internships as much as french schools do though, this is very important for employability.

To sum it up, I think french prepa are really really beneficial to whoever goes through them. However french engineering schools (after prepa) should take other schools as examples and try to grow in size to reach critical mass (centralesupelec is trying to, but it's probably not enough).

Am in prepa, basically we're turned into robots.
What we gain in raw learning and computing power, we lose in creativity and culture.

When a system based on state exams exists for too long, it always screws up because people prepare those exams and nothing else

>>7753544
This. Since I’ve entered my prépa I’ve become less interested in many things. Worst thing is my English teacher expects us to be interested in everything, but I have lost both the time and the motivation for that. Also, math classes in MP don’t have the same rigour and formalism as in MPSI so my autistic passion is way less satisfied.

File: Airbus_A380-841,_Malaysia_Airlines_AN2208844.jpg (369KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

369KB, 1280x960px

>>7753544
You can't "lose" creativity. You have it or you don't. But being exceedingly well-trained at solving abstract problems is only beneficial when you'll actually have to find novel solutions in the real world. Being creative and having been trained in such a way that no problem will be too difficult for your mind is the best combination. It's not the only thing that a degree course should contain, true, but it is better than ending up with an understanding of math/physics so vague that it has basically become a black box. Because then, if shit happens, you'll be really clueless.

>>7753569
Example? I feel like things have changed lol

>>7753579
(i precise that i'm someone who had to make up for an education that was too vague on math/physics and i paid that dearly later on)

>>7753580
MPSI: [math](f_n)_{n \in \mathbf N}[/math] defined by [math]f_n:x \longmapsto n\,x[/math] for all [math]n \in \mathbf N[/math]
MP: [math](n\,x)[/math]

MPSI: Initialization, Induction
MP: [math]u_n \,=\, \cdots \,=\, f(u_{n\,-\,1})[/math] and by trivial induction, we have the fucking shit theorem

MPSI: [math](e_n)_{n \in [\![1\,;\,d]\!]}[/math]
MP: [math](e_0,\,\dots,\,e_N)[/math]

>>7753628
you're just autistic bro, it means the exact same thing and it's as rigorous.

>>7753453
The "money" part of Polytechnique you're talking about may be due to their students, which mainly come from the big preparatory schools of Paris, namely Sainte-Geneviève in Versailles (they have actual royalists), and kill themselves working two years to get the comfortable job the diploma guarantees.

>>7753544
Untrue. Although we are encouraged to live and breath the system, your creativity is untouched. What I presently feel as a musician is not a lack of creativity, but a lack of time and energy, which is sucked out by work.

I got accepted in a class prepa, but turned it down because I got accepted to a top uni abroad.

The main thing you get from being outside looking in is the sense of prestige and exclusivity of the French job market for these. I basically will never have a job in France as I will always have a stigma attached to the fact I went to a university (despite that uni being better).

Is it possible to get into X/ENS after doing a BS in Physics at an university outside of France? Beaurecratically, I see it's possible, I mean at X they have a programme aimed exactly at students from outside of France, but is it achievable? I mean, would a BS in physics give you the necesessary knowledge to pass the examinations?

>>7753628
Dude you're in your second year, nobody cares about this stuff anymore, it's not even math, just notation.

>>7753544
So they're like the average American public schools.

>>7753453
This Ecole Polytechnique is just a place to network and get placed in high end companies as exec and hopefully CEO.

>>7754234
of course it is, that's the whole point lol
You would have the necessary knowledge in physics at least, but don't forget math though, they rely heavily on it.
Looking at what they do in the first year, if you join at the second year you'll need this beforehand:
-a bit of macroeconomics
-any CS
-real/complex analysis
-probabilities and random signals I guess
-quantum mech

I think you'll be fine

File: 1427358630714.jpg (1MB, 1400x5830px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1400x5830px

>>7753099

>>7754675
In English?

>>7754690
Not this guy, but it is basically a comic about a guy quitting cannabis, tobacco, porn, and things like that
he says that it's hard, not because you can't quit it easily, but because everytime you go back to it, no matter how long it has been since you stopped, everything makes you go back to it : porn are websites easily findable, coffee is everywhere, tobacco is sold everywhere and everyone smokes, you can't go to parties without alcool, and everything like that
He says that in his head there is a "crocodile", who just ruin his life. It's himself, but it's all the bad thing he have. He his addicted to almost everything : milk when he was a newborn(up to 5 years), candies and meat when he was a kid, LSD speed ecstasy and shit when he was a teenager and every "normal" drugs like tobacco coffee and everything when he was an adult
he then describes how porno is the worst thing ever because it's the drug of the poor : No bad sideeffects and you just need to pay internet

And finally, his "crocodile" speaks and says that no matter what he do, he won't be able to get back his life because he has none, and even if he stops coffee or tobacco, he will go for food and shit.

He then gives him a friendly advice : "Suicide toi"=>Kill yourself

>>7754619
he should worry less about keeping up with the pace than joining. For french students getting into X or ENS is considered the top challenge, so he may have to pass the exams if he wishes to do more than a foreign exchange program for a few months.

File: retour vers le sujet.png (82KB, 289x260px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 289x260px

>>7754675
T'es parti un peu loin là mon gars

>>7753099
Well there's only one French university in the top 100, so I'd say it's worse than the rest of the western world.

>>7755775
They're not good research universities but they probably do a phenomenal job of training people in whatever field they want to study. I don't think you can say the same for many American top 100 unis.

>>7755775
look at the evaluation criteria, they're extensive which is not advantageous for French schools that are typically small. However it shows a weakness: no critical mass, not many foreign researchers, maybe less efficiency in the way money is spent as well.
Also engineers are not educated in universities.

>>7753579
>>7754228

It depends on what you call creativity, but if something is not stimulated, it stagnates, at best.
Sure creativity as an innate part, but motivation and external stimulation are what fuels it.