What are the false positive rates for mental illness diagnoses like?

100%

mental illness doesn't exist

psychiatry and psychology are pseudosciences

>>7744945
Nah seriously though

>>7744945
Retard detected

>>7744968
have you ever met anyone with a psychology degree?

it's a bonafide pseudoscience

So there's no data on the false positive rate of mental illness diagnoses?

>>7744945
Beat me to it

>>7744986
Wait so if we don't know what the false positive rate is like why do we let these people prescribe dangerous drugs?

>>7744941
1
there is no such thing as false positives in mental health. You are using the paradigms of a different discipline (chemistry/biology) to understand something completely different.

2
It is estimated that approximately 50% of first diagnoses for mental illness are factually incorrect, and the correct diagnosis is only found after continued engagement with the patient, multiple sessions and possibly a year of engagement to zero in in an exact diagnosis

>>7744986
>fMRI
>magnetic resonance imaging
>ionizing radiation

this better be a troll

>>7744968
Retardation doesn't exist though ^:)

>>7744941
99%

>>7746820
>diagnostic methods

what you're describing are imaging methods. Diagnoses are made by mental health professionals. Imaging is not used in mental health diagnoses.

>>7746809
>there is no such thing as false positives in mental health.
>It is estimated that approximately 50% of first diagnoses for mental illness are factually incorrect
Wat? Those two statements appear to me to be contradictory.

>>7746858
>not valid
>hurr we do it anyway

are you stupid?

>>7746864
>Wat? Those two statements appear to me to be contradictory.

Well in all honesty misdiagnosis is an inappropriate word to use in the context of mental health. Mental health diagnoses are inaccurate half the time, for the first diagnosis. There is no objective way to evaluate a diagnosis. Consensus, "pattern matching", case report, all of these aspects are added up, and eventually you get a diagnosis that accurately reflects the patient's reality. Technically speaking I could tell you mental health diagnoses are 100% accurate, after a couple of years of contact with the patient. There is no way to verify a misdiagnosis objectively, so the term misdiagnosis is inappropriate.

Say one patient visits mental health team A and gets a diagnosis, then visits team B and gets a different diagnosis, typically both of these teams would communicate and come up with a combined answer to the patient in terms of diagnosis. If they are in disagreement, the patient could end up getting both diagnoses and following whichever mental health professional he chooses.

>>7745082
Well, first-gen antipsychotics are the only ones that are especially dangerous, and those only tend to be prescribed in pretty extreme scenarios.

That being said, if a doctor prescribes you that shit, DO NOT trust them, just try it once and see how you react. Also look up videos of people who have been on them for a long time, it cognitively destroys you. Figure out if you are willing to take the tradeoff.

>>7746869
Are YOU stupid? I'm not >>7746858, but dude, imaging methods are being used way more these days, especially since NIMH abandoned DSM in 2013. Read this: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2013/transforming-diagnosis.shtml

He's right that it's not universally accepted as valid by clinical psychologists and psychiatrists, but neither was cognitivism at one point, and we know how that turned out.

>>7746910
Yeah I know a dude on Abilify and he's not a fan either, just terrified of what's gonna happen if he stops taking it.
A friend of mine with BP took Seroquel once and said his brain felt like it was on fire. I trust his judgment.
But first-gens are the only ones where you can see long-term effects so clearly, and they are damning as hell.

>>7746912
>RDoC, for now, is a research framework, not a clinical tool.

Did you even read what you posted? It says it right there on the box, imaging is not used (clinically) for diagnosis of mental health disorders (yet). Until that changes or you have conflicting evidence, shut your yap

>>7746902
>There is no objective way to evaluate a diagnosis.
Again, what?

Why are these people allowed to call themselves a medical field if there's no way to confirm or deny that a person actually has the condition they profess they are treating?

>>7746959
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_medicine

>>7746976
Counterpoint:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/why-evidence-based-medicine-cannot-be-applied-psychiatry

To start with psychology and psychiatry =/= neurology.

Mental health is often mistakenly applied to all three (and others) by armchair experts.

Each of these fiepds have made significant contributions to science but none have answered the question of what is the ideal state of mind.

>>7744945
The DSM is what they use to diagnose people
It was the DSM 4 or 5 that stats any mental condition can not be considered a disease or illness unless it interfere with the functions of your life.

Which means by their definition if you are a NEET everything in your mind could be a mental illness causing you to be a neet. Conversely if you are a successful business man you are mentally healthy. Even if you are a sociopath it's healthy for you.

>It's difficult to define and science hasn't advanced to the stage where we can make 100% objective and definitive analysis, therefore it's not a real thing.

Never change /sci/

>>7744945
>neurology is a pseudoscience

ayy

>>7744945
>Spatial reasoning doesn't exist
>Memory doesn't exist
>Language doesn't exist
>Perception doesn't exist
>Serotonin and dopamine don't exist
>Paranoid schizophrenia isn't real, they're just pretending to hallucinate so they can get autismbuckz

Don't even know where to start with how fucking stupid you are. I think my greentext says it all.

>>7746910
>it cognitively destroys you
Can confirm. Been on olanzapine for like a year, it just made me feel dead inside which is basically the intended effect. Before that I'd been forcefully given haldol, probably some benzo and god knows what else, and I think I've had a case of neuroleptic malignant syndrome at that time (not sure, I was very hot, sweaty and unconscious) and the record of what drugs I've been given has peculiarly gotten lost (I asked my psych about it one time).
Anyway I've since learned that even 2nd generation antipsychotics cause permanent brain shrinking (literally) (http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v30/n9/full/1300710a.html) so I'm pretty freaked out about having been on it every now and then.
OTOH I might've killed myself if I'd been given nothing, I just wish they could go a little more gentle about it.

>>7744945
>le dank meme

>>7747161
>even 2nd generation antipsychotics cause permanent brain shrinking
Wow. Sounds like the sort of thing you'd want to know before taking it.

>>7744945
This.

A science is something that can be repeated anywhere. With psychiatry and psychology, all results are unrepeatable. Every single person is so vastly different mentally that you can't apply a science to it using those two fields.

>>7746981
LOL This is like reading a homeopathy defence article.

>>7747161
Get off that shit and take some lithium instead. They are using you as a guinea pig.

>>7747212
>LOL This is like reading a homeopathy defence article.
You can look up the authors if you want. They don't sound like kooks.

>muh I'm a unique and different. I have autism and I'm bipolar

>>7747253
Fink is a total kook. Both authors are Jewish opportunists who create made up problems to sell medication and charge for worthless medical practices.

Of course they don't want anyone looking at their work very closely. They are like crazy Christans vilifying real science because it pulls back the curtain on them.

>>7746981
List of weasel words from that blog article:

Oh wait, I'm stopping, not gonna do that. Turns out nearly the entire article is one big basket of weasel words. Not worth my time. They may as well have posted it on tumblr.

>>7747210
even pol and lit are less science denialist than this

>>7747210
You idiot, science is not something that can be repeated everywhere. What a ridiculous definition. Science is a hard thing to pin, you certainly can't sum it up in a sentence.

Sciences like physics, biology and chemistry have experiments to confirm theories which are designed so as to be repeatable, in order to minimize experimental uncertainty. Some branches of psychology replicate this paradigm, to varying degrees of success, though the clinical one largely doesn't. When you're dealing with a person's mind (not simply their brain, which is complicated enough to stupefy everyone), or with social issues, as in sociology, repeatable experiments are *not* necessarily the best paradigm to use to further the science, since the extremely complicated nature of the subjects being studied render sufficiently controlled experiments mostly impossible.

>>7747215
Just FYI been off it for years, doesn't look like I need anything atm.

If you think you have something like aspergers or autism, try this.

Do you think you can reasonably fool a psychiatrist into believing you're completely normal for several sessions? Can you talk normally, make eye contact, discuss things, etc. without doing anything weird?

If you can then you're probably fine. If you can't then you're probably not.

It's hard to 'cover up' real mental illnesses, in the same way it's hard to cover up real medical issues. If you can show none of the symptoms and act like a normal person with some effort you don't have an illness. You're probably just socially awkward or insecure most of the time.

>>7747358
It is the perfect definition and makes sense. Everything else may as well be shamanism.

>>7747210
Yeah, so let's just give up trying to understand the human mind. I mean, not everything can be repeated so let's just stop trying. That's the spirit that got us where we are today in science, isn't it?

Fucking moron. Also, nowhere does it say science must be repeated anywhere. Never heard such rubbish.

>>7747520
>That's the spirit that got us where we are today in science, isn't it?
But it is. Anything that claims to do science in a non-repeatable way is just setting us back.

>>7747629
What on earth are you talking about? Nobody is claiming they have all the answers. If they did, science would stop you fucking moron. It's an ongoing process. We may never crack it.

By your logic, we can't cure cancer, therefore let's stop trying.

No you spastic, what you do is you take what you have learned so far, adapt it slightly, see if it works, if so continue, if not try something differently and repeat on and on and on for decades and decades. It'll maybe take 200 years before we know for sure. We may never know.

>mfw I'm literally explaining how the development of science works on the science board

Fucking kids. Can tell it's the school holidays..

>>7747629
>Anything that claims to do science in a non-repeatable way is just setting us back.
You've just described 99.9% of science ever. It's the last 0.1% that makes the textbooks but you can't have that last bit without the lifetimes of work before it.
Totally agree with the other guy, you're retarded.

>>7747401
this

>>7747298
I meant for a psychiatrist. They sound like pretty standard or even respected psychiatrists, and could be taken to be approximately representative of the field in many respects.

>>7747672
>>7747676
Nothing you say has anything to do with repeatability
>By your logic, we can't cure cancer, therefore let's stop trying.
That's not what I'm saying at all. By your logic, if some crank claims to have cured cancer, but other scientists can't repeat his results, you should still be trying to cure people with that non-cure.

>>7747401
Well duh you dummass

One of the criteria to be diagnosed with mental illness is it must "significantly negatively impact your life"

>>7744945
Would love to see you say that after just one bad month of what I go through as a paranoid schizophrenic. I do agree that a lot of the stuff people get diagnosed with are either false positives, or just plain false. But to say there is no such thing as mental illness...I wish there wasn't.