What's the benefit of bringing a human to mars?

Literally nothing. It's a barren world that is useless to humans until we can construct orbital factories around it and send robots down to harvest its resources, which will be never.

>>7721753
Same as sending one to the moon

>>7721753
Well before someone inevitably goes into specific benefits and details, you need to ask yourself:
What is the point of doing anything? If we're not willing to set the highest goals for civilization then why set any?

>>7721753
Same as bringing one to Earth.

>>7721764
Sounds like some bullshit philosophical argument because you can't name any benefits of bringing a man to mars

>>7721768
testing the environment and learning how to colonize it.

>>7721771
why not start with colonizing antarctica or sahara first?

>>7721772
Both of those sound horrible. But being able to traverse between planets sounds amazing. I would want to just know that i can do it.

>>7721781
But how would you convince a common citizen that his tax money should be used for a manned mars mission?
"traverse between planets sounds amazing" sounds like a rather weak argument for me

>>7721788
Appeal to the grandeur of the undertaking,sprinkle in some talk about how in the process technologies will trickle down from space development into modern life that make things better, and appeal to his sense of patriotism, ie, we gotta do it before the chinks do it and make a giant Mao face on Mars!

Citizens don't give a shit about logic in this age of infotainment and general laxness, they want slick pop-science videos that set up a narrative of social progression to a distant, idyllic future, and space exploration fits nciely with that. I'm in favor of us doing it mainly because I think we should definitely cut our teeth ASAP on exploring this solar system and becoming a multiple planet species, partially for science but also juuuuuuuuuuuust in case something bad happens to Earth.

Blame the russians and make another race.

>>7721792
Wow, you seem to have a pretty low opinion about your fellow citizens

>>7721795
People are pretty shitty nowadays. They only respond when being forced into something. Kinda like cattle.

>>7721796
luckly you are such a smart and enlightend individum

>>7721795
Eh, people are people. If you can crack the whip of social manipulation and get some science done midst the fires of jingoism, do it. The Cold war was fucking AMAZING for science.

>>7721798
Do you really see people coming together for something liked they did in ww2 or the cold war? The only way to get people to buy into this would to get them into a state of mind, that is thinking about the benefits of future generations, and not about their wallets

>>7721753
there is no benefit

>>7721802
well, personally, i see no benefit for future generations from sending a man to mars, and I think may tax payers feel the same way

Mars has a much lower escape velocity than Earth, and is probably the second most habitable place in the Solar System - livable gravity, enough sunlight to farm/use soalr panels effectively, etc. It makes sense to build there if there's going to be significant space exploration in the future.

>>7721807
do we lack habitable place on earth?
even if we did, deserts and the poles are still 1000 times more habitable than mars

>>7721804
>i see no benefit for future generations from sending a man to mars
The bounty of wealth that exists outside of this planet is immense. The asteroid belt alone is rich and plentiful beyond out minds ability ot comprehend.

>>7721815
except there is no economical way to reach this wealth, especially not in the gravity well of mars

>>7721811
The important thing is the lower escape velocity - it's easier to throw things into space from Mars than Earth. The Moon would be much better, but Mars would be easier to colonize.

It would also serve as a convenient base to mine the asteroid belt - we'd save over a year of travel time if vessels start on Mars.

>>7721811
The key here is the lower escape velocity. The Moon would be even better, but its less habitable than Mars. Mars would also serve as a convenient starting point to get to the asteroid belt, saving at least a year of travel time compared to Earth.

>>7721818
>>7721819
why not simply build a space station?
even lower gravity well, better access to sunlight and earth level gravity through rotation

>>7721753
Exploration? Search for life? To answer one of the biggest questions, did life originate on earth? Test the limits of our abilitys? Further our understanding of geology? Fuck the better question is why not? We've been stuck on this rock for 4 billion years. As someone said above, why do anything? Why not just criticise everything everyone else is doing? Negative nancy

>>7721822
>Exploration? Search for life? To answer one of the biggest questions, did life originate on earth? Test the limits of our abilitys? Further our understanding of geology?
You dont need a human for any of those

>>7721821
You can't mine a vacuum, genius

>>7721842
asteroids?

>>7721760
Well it would be an ok place for people to live, maybe 150 years from now.
But first we need to develop shit in orbit
A large ion propelled vehicle could go anywhere, not just mars.

>>7721753
Cheap real estate if you can deal with the commute.

>>7721817
Rather than building a useless ISS, they should have been making a spaceship.

Everything starts from cheaper launch costs. Then you build a spaceship to enable you to do whatever you want.

>>7721824
Yeh because robots are so reliable and can do every task a human can. Testing our limitations! Human needed. How advanced do you think current robotics is? What's your problem? You a marine biologist or something? Gonna throw out the old, we know less about our deep oceans? How about exploring the deep oceans of another planet? Happy now? Do you approve? Like anyone cares

>>7721815
>>7721818
>>7721819
>>7721852
The asteroid belt is mostly empty space
It is NOT a thick cloud of rocks

>>7721862
Let's build a spaceship? Lol. So what's fueling this imaginary spaceship? What sort of propulsiin would it use?

>>7721868
so?

>>7721753
I can't imagine how Earth could expect to keep control of Mars. The moment a martian colony is roughly self sufficient, someone is going to manage to take control.

>>7721862
You're already a space cadet. Going up the ranks nicely

>>7721866
Then I am sure mars exploration can wait 50 years, until we have better robots

>>7721872
Yeh. Sooner or later they will gain souvernity. Someone else to fight

>>7721876
So is it the money and resources expended that you have a problem with?
I seriously don't know where your coming from

>>7721882
Yes.
I am sure the money necessary for manned mars program could be used elsewhere

>>7721792
>Entire post is nothing but appeal to emotion
>Accuses others of not giving a shit about logic

>>7721869
solar/nuclear powered
ion engines.
Shit we already have

>>7721882
He's coming from reality, not from watching the premiere of The Expanse. It's ok to watch sci-fi and not allow it to destroy your critical thinking abilities... or do you believe lasers and explosions in space make noise because they do on tv shows?

>>7721866
You can send hundreds of robots for the cost of sending one human. Plus robots can do many things humans cannot. This isn't Star Trek. In the actual physical world, the laws of physics and economics apply. The laws of "I'll wish upon a star" do not.

>>7721900
Not hundreds
Especially not if its some one way trip volunteer

>>7721753
Without a leap in consciousness there are none. we currently live like viruses, we are of no use to anyone, including ourselves.
We need higher standards first.

>>7721822
>"We've been stuck on this rock for 4 billion years"
>implying modern human have existed when Earth formed
Don't ya think we'd be far more advanced if we'd been around for almost a third of the universe's lifetime, considering how far we've come since the Middle Ages? Young-Earthers wouldn't have a leg to stand on either (not that they do now but you get what I mean).

>>7721872
I'm sure those of us on Earth could send a remotely controlled bomb to Mars to take care of those who 'took control'. No matter how long they waited, no matter how advanced they might be, we'd have the upper hand.

>>7721869
There are plenty of different propulsion systems, each with their own pros and cons. Duct engines, Hall effect thrusters, ion drives, electromagnetic propulsion, etc. Fuel can be in the form of solar energy, radioactive energy, etc. It's not like NASA's gone to the Moon using magic.

>>7721870
So mining can’t be made economically viable. Mining the asteroid belt is a bs meme.

The ability to test hypotheses we either can't, or already have the answers to, on Earth.

Earth has certain properties that Mars doesn't, and vice versa. Aside from planetary hypotheses such as why does Earth do/have x but Mars doesn't, but we could replicate other things, see if things work on Mars which don't work here, see what DOES work on Mars and see if we can learn anything new about doing it here.

Half the point is that you don't know what you're going to discover, so you'd better do it anyway just in case you end up revolutionising science as we know it.

Darwin revolutionised biology by looking at birds on some islands in the middle of nowhere.

Developing spaceflight and colonization technology can be done on the Moon and far cheaper than on Mars.

There is no benefit of going to Mars at this time.

>>7721935
Drones should be sent for prospecting purposes to both the moon & mars
But it's more or less useless to go to either one

Always awful seeing them waste their money on useless things, rather than actually investing in space infrastructure.

>>7721922
I would imagine flying from one asteroid to another costs still less than escaping the gravity of mars

>>7721925
And why exactly do you need humans to tests those hypothesises?
Why cant robots do that?

>>7722011
Sure, look at Dawn.
The main problem is the downtime during transfers.

>>7721922
Do some research before spouting bullshit on a science board. Asteroid mining is more than viable simply because of the mechanics of planetary formation. Heavier elements tend to sink into the centre of celestial objects. This doesn't happen with asteroids because of their relatively low mass. That, in turn, means that heavy elements both come in greater abundance and are easier to access.

There's also the fact that the near-nonexistent escape velocity means you're not expending much energy at all in getting the product off the asteroid.

>>7721908
I think he meant life. Not humans. A pity it had to be explained to you

>>7721896
Viable if you don't mind waiting hundreds of years to accelerate enough to leave the solar system. Next bright idea please

>>7721763
No. Sending a man to the moon was the result of a penis-measuring contest between the US and the Soviets. Colonising Mars is making sure humanity won't die in a single disaster - worst case scenario is Martians recolonise Earth.
I bet humans will set foot on Mars by 2031, probably thanks to SpaceX. Mark my fucking words.

>>7721869
The fuel is the cheap part, retard. The expensive part is the engine, tanks and whatnot - the rocket. And guess what? SpaceX is working on it already. Falcon 9's first stage has yet to land safely, indeed, but it's been very close recently and it's a matter of 2-3 attempts before they succeed. Later SpaceX plans to start recovering the second stage and eventually they might bring down travel costs to around $500 000.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-colonize-mars.html/2#part2

>inb4 >>7722059 samefag
Yep. I am.

>>7722059
we dont even have a permanent settlement on the south pole, what makes you think we are able to colonize mars?

>>7722071
What about the Amundsen-Scott station?

>>7722075
People dont live all the time there and it is still dependant on getting goods from the outside

>>7722067
Not the cost of the fuel retard. The amount of fuel you would have to carry to leave the solar system. If you're just talking about going to Mars I missed that, sorry. It sounded like you were proposing an interstlar spaceship. If you meant Interplanetary. Yes that would be viable. Sorry for the assumption

>>7722067
My reply wasn't even to you spastic. But I did interpretate his comment wrong. Sorry to him. Not to you butt fucker

>>7722092
What if something breaks down?
Like a computer or something? You cant recreate that on mars. And as long as you are not fully autarkic as a colony, you can't be used to repopulate earth after a planet killing disaster.

>>7722101
Shit, I accidentally deleted the wrong post.
Here:
>>7722071
What are the problems? We have to figure out the following:
-solar radiation - currently the main problem
-living space - inflatable hubs, 'The Martian' was surprisingly realistic regarding Mars bases
-food - we can grow it in artificial greenhouses, again, probably inflatable
-water - we can extract it from the ground or the poles, currently kind of a problem but solutions will probably come
-oxygen - Martian atmosphere is literally full of CO2, extracting oxygen is no big deal
-fuel for return trips - if we get water, we can recombine water and CO2 into methane and oxygen, the two being literally a decent type of rocket fuel.

The main advantages of colonising Mars are species security and adventure, neither of which the poles really give.
Am I missing a problem? I'll be happy to discuss it.

Now, regarding my reply, we can recreate almost everything. 3D printers give a lot of possibilities - even the SuperDraco engines in Dragon 2 are made with 3D printers only. Of course, spare parts have to be taken along with the mission.
And I'm not saying we'll be safe instantly, but the sooner humanity starts working on that goal - not with all resources, but just slightly - the better.

>>7722104
you can only make plastic shit with 3D printers.
You can't create something as complicated as a computer out of it

>>7722104
This is literally the most literal literature a literate person can literally read.

>>7722106
>you can only make plastic shit with 3D printers.
Google 3d printing with metals.

subtractive manufacturing will never be completely replaced, but there's a lot you can't easily do with a CNC mill / lathe approach. 3d printing will majorly cut into (get it?) that industry.

>>7722106
That's true. I guess a lot of spares would be needed, enough to endure the 3 years of waiting for resupply. Still, printers are a relatively new technology. We might start welding metal circuits in the future though... Right?

>>7722111
so maybe we should wait with the colonialization of mars until we have magic 3d printers that can create anything we need

>>7722115
See >>7722110

>>7722120
you can't create stuff like computers with 3D printers

>>7722121
Computers weigh around a hundred grams now. Google smartphones.
Compared to the mass of the spacecraft, people and supplies taking 10 spare computers per one operational is no big deal.

>>7722124
as I said before, we cant even create an independant base on the south pole, what makes you think we can do so on mars?

>>7722130
We can, but there is no incentive and nobody is willing to do it, while there's SpaceX working on Mars bases already. The main issue with the south pole is the cold, but making an artificial environment there is possible. Also, Mars has thinner atmosphere which in turn won't cool the base as much.

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>you will never go to a colonized Mars to start a new life away from all the politics on Earth

>>7721891
>I am sure the money necessary for manned mars program could be used elsewhere

such as?

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>>7722181
>>you will never go to a colonized Mars to start a new life away from all the politics on Earth

>mfw you will never go to a colonized Mars to start a new life away from all the assholes who think we shouldn't visit strange new worlds

>>7721753

None.

The thing with scientific research is that you don't know what you can find out until you find out through research. That's a good enough reason for me

>>7722184
An unmanned Mars program.

>>7721901
There is literally no reason to send people to Mars apart colonisation. Whatever people do, robots do better nowadays. Unmanned probes are superior.

>>7721822
>4 billion years
Humans have only existed on this planet for roughly 500,000 years.

>>7722181
Something tells me Mars would have elitist ubermensch politics.

>>7722217
>not realising he's talking about life in general
Kill yourself for the sake of humanity

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>>7722231
Honest mistake.
Calm down autist

>>7721919
>It's not like NASA's gone to the Moon.
Ftfy

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>>7722217
Humans have existed for about 40,000 years

>>7722223
Perhaps, but I'd like to think that there would a strong sense of community.

Mars isn't naturally hospitable, so everyone needs to work together to get by.

>>7722244

Checked

>...using magic

Negroid can you even into Lunar Orbit Rendezvous using rocket grade kerosene and LOX/Hydrogen gas?

>>7722257
I put rocket grade kerosene and LOX/Hydrogen gas in my coffee every morning m8

>>7722280

My respect for you has nearly quintupled in a matter of mere minutes.

Real men do this everyday.

Unless you happen to be a Russian woman...in which case the exception can be made.....

lolz

>>7721768
well it is a philosophical arguement

>>7722303

>well it is a philosophical argument

>inb4 meaningful and practical arguments

>>7721764
>set the highest goals
For the same money you can send a LOT of unmanned flights

>>7722255
I was told it was about 70k.

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>>7721753
>a human
Get lots of science done and learn a few things about space travel and living on another planet. It would also be cool. If you think that its too expensive, ask yourself which one do you think is more important, putting a human being on another planet for the first time in history establishing another major step in the staircase of becoming a space faring species exploring the stars instead of forever being trapped on this planet until we eventually die, or the air conditioning that us soldiers get in the middle east because the air conditioning budget is 1 billion more than all of nasa.
>colonizing
With a completely reusable system, it could actually be economical if you're just paying for the propellant and payroll which would allow millions of people to come. ( long long term ) With this establishment of life, we would keep advancing space travel until we could colonize other planets eventually getting to the point where most of the solar system would be our home. This would vastly improve the longevity of our species. It would also be cool.

I do think that it would be a lot better and cheaper to just send humanoid style robots with a shit ton of cargo being controlled by humans down here though. You could build the colony with much greater ease for less money if you don't have to keep frail humans alive. Unmanned missions really are the better choice but long term, humans seriously should push forward into space instead of hitting the snooze button over and over again just because it seems like too much work.

To put the Stars and Stripes on there, dumbass.

>>7721753

a single human?

first hand experience I suppose
sure we understand whats its like over there we have numbers and pictures but at the end of the day it isn't everything is it?

if you mean actually colonizing mars well that should be obvious

mining the surface of the easy deposits of valuable elements.

small gravity well is just enough to eliminate the difficulties of asteroid mining, yet weak for cheap launches to orbit.

>>7723620
pretty sure a manned mars programm would cost more than just 1 billion

Less humans on Earth.

>>7722058
Last time I checked, mars was inside the solar system.

>>7723903
Check again.

>>7722056
Life didn't start 4 billion years ago either. Shame it had to be explained to you.

>>7723905
Yup, it's still there.

>>7723909
Yeah it did, fuck off with your religious faggotry.

More real estate.
More resources.
The initial costs outweigh the initial benefits by far but I'm willing to bet a mars colony could eventually be financially successful.

>>7721753
Why go? Because its there and because why not.

>>7723990
>The initial costs outweigh the initial benefits by far
Did you skip Economy 101?

>>7721872
I thought about this but remember that the British kept control of Australia 12,000 miles away with just sailing ships. All you have to do is install someone loyal as governor and even if they revolt military power is centralized on Earth so it won't be hard to retake it. Colonial secessions succeed for three reasons, someone helped them (America), parent nation ran out of money with which to enforce their rule (India and Africa) or there was no longer a large difference in power between the parent nation and the colony (Australia and Canada). Therefore an independent Mars can take three scenarios. They find aliens who help them break free of Earth early on, WW3 happens on Earth making us unable to effectively control Mars or over time Mars gains so much money and technology that Earth rule is reduced to a ceremonial position. Scenario three will probably definitely happen given time, scenario two is likely but not certain and scenario two is a highly improbable lucky fluke.

>>7723990
>More real estate.

do we really need more

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>>7721760

>so you just got back from the new world, columbus?
>how was it?
>it was ok. they don't have anything over there that isn't over here.
>oh and there are already people living there, but africa is already a much easier source for slaves.

>>7721788
>But how would you convince a common citizen that his tax money should be used for a manned mars mission?

Easy. Just tell him that if he goes he no longer has to pay tax.

>>7723861
"the air conditioning budget is 1 billion more than all of nasa" Nasa's yearly budget is 19 billion so 19 billion + 1 billion = 20 billion to keep us soldiers cool in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>>7721753
Living on another planet sounds pretty cool

Don't people like doing cool shit

Bringing life to another planet is the most wonderfull thing you can do. Damn I just want to build ecosystems and shit

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>>7725384
>Bringing life to another planet is the most wonderfull thing you can do

>>7721753
for the sake of exploration and the pinnacle of human achievement

oh and uh science stuff

If you were that human we would be better off without your stupid questions.

Much faster examination and analysis of samples than a robot can perform. Also to see if it can be done.

>>7723985
Lol mate fuck off with your pre-school knowledge. 4 billion years ago the earth had just formed. It was a rock that couldn't have supported life. The first bacteria showed up half a billion years later.

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>>7721753
>>7721760
We'll never make the big leaps if we don't take the small steps.

>>7721753
Inspiring public interest, getting people interested in science by adding a human component, making people believe mars is in our grasp and encouraging the next generation of not only scientists but entrepreneurs to try and figure out how to do something with it, which has not only the benefit of us actually doing something with it sooner, but will also surely be a road paved with new technologies and ideas that can be applied in countless ways elsewhere.

If you want to build a ship, awaken the desire for the sea.

>>7721753
it will free up all the resources used up to figuring out if it can or cannot be done

once that's done, we can now use those resources to answering the problem of if humans can or cannot live there

then you can combine both solutions to deport all the jews there and probably the muslims too
creating more lebensraum for the aryan race

what's the benefit?: it's the first step to the true final solution to the jewish problem

>>7726440
But it's a step in the wrong direction.
The manned Mars landing is a thing of the 1960s and 1970s. People have advanced since then.

>>7726440
how does he drink the beer?

>>7726460
Advanced how? In what way has it become a step in the wrong direction? If it's a thing of the 60s and 70s, could you explain the present-day chatter about manned Mars landings coming from very capable organizations in the present day?

>>7726510
Because there are people that haven't moved on.
Robots are the future, humans are the past. Machines are more and more replacing humans on their own planet, it's silly to waste effort on bringing humans on other planets only to have them replaced there as well.

>>7726440
I like that way of putting it. I don't personally believe that a leap as big as Mars colonization is gonna happen, but even smaller projects will definitely never happen if we're too wuss to sacrifice some poor sucker to our Martian overlords so we know better about what the hell we're trying to do.

>>7726504
The beer vaporizes in the low-pressure environment. Outer space itself gets a little buzzed.

>>7726514
I think he's talking about an optimistic view of the long term, wherein we need that first guy there if we're gonna try sending more later on down the line, but the current challenges of Mars research already make a manned mission to our benefit. For instance, many of our current findings concerning Mars can't be further explored simply because the machines weren't deigned to handle some of the things we didn't know about. Humans are more versatile and can much more fluidly change their objectives.

Now, machines do do a lot of jobs better than people, but a lot of the backend does and will continue to require human intervention for a long time. However, light takes a few minutes to reach to and from our machines on Mars. Even just sending a manned mission to pilot some machines in actual real time could do us a lot of good. That is, unless you're actually just relying on supremely advanced self-moderating AI or the AI singularity, in which case, you're a bit optimistic yourself.

>>7724825
>new world
>barren
>literally some of the most fertile regions on the planet

>>7721895
Welcome to western society, where the facts don't matter but your feelings always do

Once we learn how to terraform Mars we'll be able to repair Earth, which will be a shithole worse than Mars by that time.

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>>7721821
>space station?
The low gravity is a problem for human health over time. You could spin the station but that increases complexity, a lot.

>>7721872
Would that be a big problem? There is still trade. Look at history.
Scenario 1: UK lost control of US, both doing reasonably well these days.
Scenario 2: ES and PT lost control of the South America but had a lot of vassals there. Today none are doing too well, really.

>>7721922
>Mining the asteroid belt is a bs meme.
Mining can break China's stranglehold on rare earth elements. Earlier South Africa was untouchable because they controlled crucial resources like gold, uranium, chrome and more. Today Congo is a war zone fuelled by tantalum resources.

Asteroid Psyche is possibly a former core of a broken small planet and mainly metal. That alone could change a lot of economics. For there is a reason the US rushed through a new law regarding space mining.

>>7722121
>you can't create stuff like computers with 3D printers
Perhaps not, yet. However you can make circuits using ink jet printing in labs. It is early days yet but this is coming. And making computers is just a question of scaling up. Anyway, you can also make computers using relay logic or discrete TTL circuits. And hobbyists have done this, many times.

>>7722223
>Something tells me Mars would have elitist ubermensch politics.
What, a planet full of Aspergers? Or ADHD? This could be ... interesting.

>>7726654
>terraform

nice meme

>>7726531
>because the machines weren't deigned to handle some of the things we didn't know about. Humans are more versatile and can much more fluidly change their objectives.
Humans still need specific tools. But we've come so far that tools can be produced on spot instead of having to send a new one from Earth. They have a 3D printer on the ISS for instance.
A 3D printer on Mars or ultimately a whole robot factory is more useful than a human.

If you want closer control than the current minute long delay between Earth and Mars you should go for an orbital station instead of boots on the ground.

>>7726731
>What, a planet full of Aspergers? Or ADHD?
I meant more like a planet full of only the smartest and fittest humans earth has to offer. Or in the most realistic case, the richest. Mars is a very dangerous and non-hospitable environment. The stupid, weak and frail wouldn't last a year in its colonization.

>>7721753
Say we do start colonizing Mars, then what could Martians offer Earth for trade?

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>>7721753

Because you need to advance current technology in order to go to Mars. During the cold war the space race era was a very productive time period for mankind. The benefits are there, resources and unused surface area are waiting to be claimed. The question is can you go there and get it efficiently? Not unless you develop new technology for which you have to make it there first and then keep improving.