Genetically Modified Food and Organisms

>>7705881
Last time we had a thread about this. Some faggot kept posting pictures of pigs and rats with tumours and blatantly lying to promote the anti GMO agenda.

What I got from that thread is that GMOs are perfectly safe, but there's a big economic argument to go against them: GMOs are the future and they're going to crash smaller markets. This is a reason some countries are banning them.

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bumpan with zincfinger, because it's what I know and love

>>7705887
They threaten the whole bullshit non-GMO market which makes billions.

So some corporations throw a few million dollars to San Francisco natives to go smell bad around labs.

I remember reading an article from a Monsanto research head a few years ago about how the focus was going to shift from optimizing the crops themselves to optimizing where the crops grew, focusing on the soil's superregional ability to support certain crop types better.

It would make harvesting a pain, but it was an interesting idea.

What's the point in being keked by huge companies over and over again?
You already have pests that developed resistance to Round'Up.

>>7705921
>not discussing the science behind it
>making a political argument
>off topic shit about Round Up

>>>/pol/

>>7705928
PO-TA-TOES, do you has it?

GMOs don't make sense.

I see them as unnecessarily risky solutions to problems that either don't exist, have much simpler solutions or arguably can can never be solved.

>>7705964
>unnecessary
High-yield, high-resistance, improved nutritional value

>risky
[citation needed]

>problems don't exist
yeah pests and nutrition problems all around the world aren't real

>>7705889
>zincfinger
go back to bed grandpa

>>7705966
we don't have a food production problem, we have food distribution problems. it's not clear how monsanto does anything to help the latter problem and they may even do some things that make the problem worse

>>7705964
> problems that don't exist
Never lived in a country or time with a food scarcity, huh?

>>7705966
Name some.

Golden rice is a great example. You know what would have been far easier then getting rice to make β-Carotene. Growing the local version of yams which already have a lot of β-Carotene, thus improving the nutritional value of people's diets. It would have diversify the local farming giving better system wide resistance to pests and other threats. And it would have allowed for more complex crop rotation setups that would have increased yields.

As for the debate on risk. I have read many papers which show no major risk with in the limits of the tests done. However given that these changes structurally effect the food sources linked to human survival I have a very high burden of proof before I start calling them "safe". Find me a few closed system 30+ year longitudinal studies on humans and then we will talk, till then I assume there is a risk given the high stakes. (I would also like to mention how historically poor we have been at testing such things, i.e. lead, ionizing radiation, asbestos, BPA, table salt, white bread, beryllium, ... . )

Pests and nutritional problems largely fall under the other two categorizes, mostly the simpler solutions one. (Such remarks make me question the seriousness of your debate if you assume I do see or understand the issues of pests and nutrition problems in this larger context.)

Generally you see liberals as anti-GMO or whatever but as liberals they also are supportive of ending world hunger but still don't realize GMO is the technology to give food to the masses.

>>7705996
Actually I live in one of the richest country on the planet with one of the most stable food supplies. However personally that didn't matter when I was living out of my car with no income and worrying where my next meal would come from. Which is one reason I an acutely aware of these issues.

Did you know if you get really creative you can make corn bread for less money then ramen noodles? Ice on your car's windshield is just free water waiting to be used as a substitute for expensive milk you can't afford in your desperate corn bread recipe as you try to stay alive and get a job.

>>7705921
But we also have some pests becoming resistant to the so called "pest resistant GMO's". I feel like nature is just a more powerful force than us and it's gonna take a lot more to bend it to our will.

>>7705964
Please become more educated before posting more shit like this.

>>7705988
Ive heard some of the foreign aid the US sends to 3rd world countries includes GMO rice seeds that grow higher in nutient levels to make the food go further than normal. I haven't seen anything else about this besides when I initially heard about it so may not be true.

>>7705889
>zincfinger
>finger
More like three pairs of boxing gloves worn on top of eachother.

Or if it's a finger then CRISPR is the hand of god.

>>7706073
Please read my other replies and try discussing things with me before writing me off as some idiot.

>>7705881
Im just going to leave this here and step awat from this thread. I've time and time again noticed that no matter what arguments you present the pro-GMO shills want everyone to get their share of cancer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxU9sgX7_-E

>>7706038
So why were kids going blind from vitamin deficiency if local yams could solve the problem? Probably because yams are more expensive or there is little economic incentive to grow them instead of rice. You just don't like the fact that GMOs can solve problems. No matter how much testing is done, you will never accept GMOs are safe, just admit it instead of arguing dishonestly.

>>7706038
>far easier
It's even easier to make bullshit claims when you sit here well fed in a first world nation with food from all over the world cheaply availible.

>Find me a few closed system 30+ year longitudinal studies
Could be used as an argument for arguing that literally everything new is dangerous and have to be banned. Do you have a 30+ year longitudinal study for internet usage? Mobile phone usage? How about most pharmaceuticals on the market?

>historically poor we have been at testing
>table salt
You really are a complete fucking idiot.

>>7706088
>uses well known retracted and debunked study
>but we're the shills
OK...

I wonder what the guy who believes he's a rational anti-GMOer thinks of shit like this.

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>>7706038
>β-Carotene. Growing the local version of yams which already have a lot of β-Carotene

GMO foods was suppose to make food super cheap. Why has the price of food sky rocketed over the past 10 years along with the use of GMO foods? How is GMO helping?

>>7706126
It's called inflation, dumbass. I suggest you compare the price of GMO food to non-GMO food. The only produce that has skyrocketed in price are organic vegetables, because idiots like you will pay exorbitant prices to appease your stupidity.

>How is GMO helping?
How exactly is it not helping? Are you suggesting that there is no reason why most corn, soybeans, and cotton are GMO? It's because they are designed to resist disease and insects or grow faster, increasing yield and decreasing cost.

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>>7706105
see my other post, >>7706063
I take this matter very seriously. During that time the free clinic actually diagnosed me with malnutrition and gave me a list of foods I should eat to help deal with it. I couldn't afford anything on that list at that time.
That forced me to do research and find alternatives, which I would not recommend as a long term diet. Interestingly one of my later and more useful solutions I developed was similar to Soylent. Got my food bills down to $4.23 a day.

True, but few things poses self replicating and system wide replace threats. Admittedly in our more globalized society system wide replace threats are more and more common, but that should not belittle the issue. If anything it should make us more cautious about what we do.

Actually when table salt first hit the market people stated to get sick as it was too pure. The new chemically made table salt was far cheaper then other salts, as such it became very popular and quickly dominated the market. It was not till after its public release that they figured out people were suffering iodine deficiency, as iodide often comes from other salt sources. However by then many regular people underestimated the danger, especially to infants, and older salt produces had started to go out of business.

This is why nearly all table salt is fortified with iodide. This was a serious problem that was linked to infant retardation. Many places actually passed laws requiring table salt to be fortified back in the mid 1920s because of how serious the public health threat was.

>>7706120
Thank you for the correction. In school I was taught the difference was geographical.

Was that image title really necessary?
Also if we are all going to be using the right terms it should be fool not idiot.

>>7706237
> not eating non-ionized salt. enjoy your ass-cancer.

>>7705966
>all of that shit
[citation needed]

wow, I can do it too

(note: citations funded by your industry don't count)

I don't mind the idea of GMOs in general, but I don't trust anything Monsanto does, says, or makes.

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>>7706247
>the right terms it should be fool not idiot.

>>7705881
You can get high on bananas.

>>7706237
>the free clinic
I considered stopping reading here but figured that shitting over your post would be more fun as you made yourself such an easy target right away.

>made up history about iodine and salt
History records exist, please use them instead of making up silly stories.

>linked to infant retardation
Seems you avoided the infant retardation curse and ended up with adult retardation instead.

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>>7706038
>find me a few closed system 30+ year longitudinal studies on humans and then we will talk

there's no reason to suppose that there's even a chance of weird toxic effects popping up

the exact same biology that lets us move genes around between species in the first place lets us make very strong predictions about how that gene will act in the new species

if a protein wasn't toxic in the original species, it's not going to be suddenly toxic in a different species

I only eat organic and support banning gmo.

i think gm tech as implemented in foods is harmless

but i still support labeling of genetically modified food

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>>7706290
You're committing a genetic fallacy, which is kinda ironic considering the topic

>>7705887
>going to crash smaller markets
I do disagree subtly on this point.
The farmer's choice to purchase and grow GE seeds is fully voluntary, and thus they provide him a superior product in many regards if he so chooses. Recall that the excessive regulations on the industry (incl. overzealous safety testing no other breeding method requires, cf. the lenape potato) are a major culprit of driving R&D costs so high so that only a few large firms can produce new strains. The bans, as I see them, are purely protectionistic, especially since the major GE breeding firms are American. Attempts are made to guard against trade deficit and subvert competition faced by "their" agriculture, to the detriment of science communication everywhere.

>>7705897
>They threaten the whole bullshit non-GMO market which makes billions
This. I can't help but laugh at the absurdly uneven distrust of industry so many have developed. Monsanto and Whole Foods respectively take in $14 and $12 billion in sales annually. They'll express their fears of "poisoning the earth" with a technology they can't even say why they think is bad, while they condone with their purchases the use of rotenone, nicotine, other last-gen argochemicals, heavier tilling, lower yields and hence greater carbon footprint and more required agricultural area and habitat displacement. Because a greedy industry is lying to them, precisely what they feel immune to in their broad rejection of science-based agriculture. "Greens" are the biggest meme of the 21st century.

>>7706478
Thanks for your wonderful contribution to this thread. How could I ever go through my life without hearing your glorious words? It's like you've changed the whole dynamic of the thread! And what a beautifully put together argument, you've sure convinced me.

Alright I think I will part with a few rude comments given everyone here seems to not be interested in any real discussion.

>>7706388
You must be a literalist econ major, given your failure to understand the use of the term "free clinic".

Yes, I even got to read some of the original ones, including newspaper articles at the national archives at their "What's cooking, Uncle Sam?" exhibit. Great insight into the history of the typical diet of a US citizen thought history.

This is /sci/, talk of curses belongs on /x/. Please leave.

>>7706342
Extensively tested, no intellectual disabilities and an above average mental age by 13 years. IQ 139
So you would be wrong again.

>>7705881
OP did you ditch this thread?

Also I find it funny you used a picture of a banana given how messed up we have made them without using modern genetic modification. Just goes to show natural cloning and inbreeding can do a lot of harm to the environment and genetic integrity. Now imagine what we can do with direct gene manipulation in a lab?

>>7706513
You're committing the [made up fallacy]. I can do it too, how [passive aggressive phrase]!

>>7706388
Kek

>>7706478
Best post so far!

>>7705977
No. f-fuck you. It was the bee's knees back in 2011.

>>7706543
I was studying for finals. I'm gonna read up.

Looks like there weren't any Monsantoanons ;_;

I was hoping we'd have a few brehs on the inside.

>>7706525
I would love to get my hands on the data on how much money Whole Foods makes on that fucking blue butterfly.

>tfw John Mackey will never do a press release where he tells all the hippies to fuck off and that he took their shekels
>at least they're supporting a union-hater
>actually feels kinda good

Why is no one addressing to the potential toxic effects of the chemicals that the GMO plants are resistant to?

>>7706581
because there are none

>>7705964
there are two risks to GMO's
one is that the ones engineered to be pest resistant will release pesticide into the ecosystem that will bioaccumulate, however all of the alternative options also have this problem.

The second is that the modified genes could escape into the natural population. To prevent this many commercial GM crops do not reproduce, which means you have to keep buying seeds. this allows Monsanto to be dicks to third world farmers, but i wouldn't call it risky,

>>7706810
the only pesticide-producing GM crops are bt toxin producing crops, and bt toxin is harmless to everything that isn't certain species of worms. the bacteria that makes it is everywhere in nature

no commercial gm crop is sterile

all modern farmers everywhere buy their seed every year, GM or not. that's common agricultural practice these days

>>7706810
Both of your claims are bullshit. There is literally no fear that crops pest resistant crops will release pesticides into the ecosystem. I have no idea where you got this idea from.

And the idea that GM crops are designed to be sterile is a lie.

>>7706898
it's not really a lie, just inaccurate

>>7705881
>>7706543

>bananas

THIS. enjoy having the specific flavor, texture, etc. of "bananas" as everyone knows them gone forever bc of horribly ineffective, non-GMO practices.

everyone in this thread will be telling their grandkids about how bananas used to be, and how much better, while they look at you like you have dementia...

GMOs are fucking sick.

They keep prices low, crops sustainable, tastier, resistant to pests and disease, more nutritious, more options for where crops can grow, etc. etc. Some can even be modified to scrub metals or other target substances out of their environments. In regard to animals, we have been able to create bio-factories for valuable medicines, research chemicals, and so much more in an economically sound way. As far as I'm concerned, it's one of the best achievements of man -- and it started all the way back when we selectively bred the first wolves, fruits, vegetables, etc. Our methods have simply become more precise and efficient.

Sure, if it is true (can't say one way or another, personally) that big government subsidized corporations are using GMO's as a way to turn crops into proprieties, then that's pretty shitty. But in my opinion, dismissing GMO's is very ignorant.

It doesn't take a biochemist/geneticist (although I am one) to realize that merely fine-tuning genotypes to produce desired phenotypes won't spontaneously generate free radicals, compounds to fit tumor promoter sequences, etc. in organisms that are devoid of them in the first place.

>>7707006
>and it started all the way back when we selectively bred the first wolves, fruits, vegetables, etc
come on man, i'm a geneticist too and while that is technically genetic manipulation, it's like comparing a paper airplane and the space shuttle

it's a shitty argument that convinces no one

>>7707014
It wasn't an argument so much as a statement saying that it's innate within us to control genetics for the benefit of man. Yes, very different things.

What do you work with, assuming you're not a student/professor?

>>7707030
plant molecular biology

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>>7706978
Yep.

I love how the only time the UN gave a napalm use exemption was to protect bananas from a new outbreak a few years back (think it was around 2007?). The US military napalmed the whole island to ash. Apparently they had leftover bombs which had to be disposed of in specific manner which they had been delaying on doing, this event allowed their disposal in a far less expensive manner. And expired napalm apparently still burns after all these years. One of the most aggressive quarantine procedure in history with next to no news coverage, but they failed to meet total quarantine as they did evacuate the humans before bombing.

Just goes to show how far humans will go to fix symptoms and avoid addressing the real problem.

>>7706760
Sauce?

>>7705928
How do you like our copyrighted pollen, farm?

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Aren't we about to leapfrog GMO foods and go straight to nutrition drinks/cakes?
They're expensive now, but of course they don't have economic scaling yet.

>>7707006
>GMOs are fucking sick.
Pussy.
GMO is the future.
We'll have GMO food, GMO pets, and GMO humans. And everything will be better than today.

>>7708368
What do you think Soylent is made of? Magic? It's mostly made of plant material that has to be farmed.

>>7708427
Don't forget the poisonous elements too.

Oh it's a "supplement" and not food, so it's okay that you'r food replcement contains 10x allowed arsenic levels :^)

The idea was good but the execution turned it into a jew scheme.

>>7706546
Flat out denying a peer reviewed piece of extensive research just because it was done by the company itself is stupid

>>7708412
The Singularity and gfbots will make them redundant.