MDMA Brain Damage

is that one of those 'overdose' studies or did they apply 'typical household' concentrations of the drug?

>>7694054
>It would be wise to keep this in mind even with more common amphetamine drugs such as Adderall.
/sci/ btfo

>>7694134
Dude seriously i'm fucking scared now after reading this paper, it says even the normal dose habits for addicts produce neurotxicity, and like

i've used adderall on lots of tests before after /sci/ told me of its use in hardcore studying.

It says that cognitive function usually improves after stopping amphetamines use but does that mean recovers to normal completely? am I fucked...

No tolerance, 5 mg of adderall and I'm good, Much better than coffee for getting shit done which has been proven to have reward to risk ratios also. People who have 2-3 cups of coffee in the morning are fuckin addicts.

Also, this is about MDMA and their analog compounds. They are popping up in the RC scene like crazy with just as euphoric properties as MDMA itself. This isn't really about other amphetamines. A simple change in a compound properties can have completely different results including determining whether said drug is neurotoxic.

>>7694054


BACK TO COCAINE IT IS

WOOOOOO

>>7694199
I always thought to myself, cocaine vs amphetamine, well which do I need more my brain or my heart, the brain can often compensate for small damages, but generally if you fuck up your heart its like you have less Max Health for the rest of your life

So its the speed for me

>>7694206
Cocaine addicts just become arrogant douche bags so if you need an ego boost, there is your drug of choice. I know from friends whom have been addicted to the stuff.
Meth addicts become legitimate criminals who will break in random houses in the middle of the night. I'm not sure about pure amphetamine addicts. I would guess they would be more functional.
>living in the hood

>NIDA

>NIDA

>NIDA

These are the same people that suffocated monkeys with cannabis smoke to prove 'weed kills brain cells, bro'.

>>7694060
They tested with 5 and 10 mg/kg injected direct to the intestine. Minimally, this is equivalent to at least 375 mg (or 750mg) in an average male (a huge dose) but likely higher since they bypassed the stomach which is hostile to amphetamines due to acidity.

It seems to conclude that the primary neurotoxic mechanism of action is oxidative stress which lends some credence to the practice of loading with antioxidants common in MDMA users. It would be interesting to test this with high dosages of vitamin C or other antioxidants similar to those often used by MDMA users.

>trusting anything from .gov

In during anecdotal, but I dated a girl that did E/MDMA nearly every weekend for a few years before she decided to "get clean" and she suffers now from a permanent headache. She went for MRIs and everything and the doctors can't identify anything in particular but attribute it to the toxicity.

She literally has a constant headache, 24/7. I dumped her years ago but that shit was surreal.

>>7694192

Reminds me of a discussion I had with a co-worker once. He had just finished telling me that his Doctor recommended that he start cutting back on his coffee intake, as it was adversely effecting his health.

> Really? How much do you have to cut back?
> He said no more than five a day, from here on.
> That's less than half a pot a day.
> Oh, no. No more than 5 pots of coffee a day.

Turns out the guy had been drinking anywhere between 7 to 13 POTS of coffee daily (I knew he drank a lot, but I never noticed).

/blog

>>7694321
>cherry picking

I cannot think why anyone would try ecstasy when there's magic mushroms around

>>7694054
The harmful effects of MDMA is a lie perpetuated by the same people who spread the lie about vaccines. They're just scared of these chemicals and call it dangerous for some reason.

You can trust me MDMA is perfectly safe. I've been doing it for 2 years.

>>7694325

I've never heard of a "permanent headache", but regular use of mdma for a long period of time will literally make you retarded.

This is admittedly anecdotal, but I don't think there's any drug worse than mdma for fucking you up long term. Even heroin addicts can get their shit together and return to normal, as long as they're able to stay clean. You use ecstasy multiole times a week for a few years, and you're done. No amount of time clean will fix the severe damage you've caused yourself.

Let me guess, are you one of those retards that believes those garbage government studies where they administer absolutely absurd dosages of evil_drug_of_the_year to animals and then act shocked when it causes damage?

>>7694664
This t.b.h f.a.m

>>7694054
>We all know brain damage is permanent and never gets better

The 60's called, they want their outdated view of the nervous system back

>>7694664
P H I K H A L
H
I
K
H
A
L

>>7694054
I abused lots of adderall when I was a teenager. I did so willingly, and I knew and accepted the risks. I barely care. I sought it out and used it for whatever I wanted.

This is why I advocate for informed consent. Medicine is notoriously terrible at legitimately informing people about the potential nature of what they're doing. They refuse to present these drugs as a lifestyle choice. Then you naturally get morons walking around "my meds" "oh, this is why we have you take your meds little Timmy". It's unfortunate, because it's what their culture did to them. It gave them not only an ignorance of basic biology and pharmacology, but of the way reality itself works.

What robbery. Saw a little 5 year old in the dentist today. His fat dumb looking mother with her face buried in her cell phone detachedly tells him to stop bouncing around and "that's why you need your meds." I've done dextro and levo amphetamine. I've done methylphenidate. And I know for a fact this is absolutely not something to be giving a child for fuck's sake. Very few drugs are.

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>>7694054
lmao get fucking rekt you cheating faggots.

>>7695510
>cheating
Ever eat a chocolate bar? Or drink coffee.... tea... soda...

>>7695527
>ever eat...

>he has to eat food
You're not even going to make it.

>>7695555
>Requires chemical means of generating work within a system
Feels bad man.

Should probably congratulate you on those quads though. 5 is a pretty okay number. Not great. Not terrible. Not transcending the binary falsehoods of viewing things in terms of good and bad. Not quite neutral. But just okay.

heheh, look whos the faggot now for sticking with methylphenidate as a study aid and never doing adderal

>>7694832
I know this damage is pretty severe, but do you have any anecdotes you can tell me about it?

Do people wildly misuser mdma actually become severely mentally defficient after a long period of time? I've heard it described as a "Word Salad" before.

>>7694667
xD please be bait. Do you have any objective arguments on the science of this study or are you just going to spout off anecdotes?

>>7694832
youre not supposed to use it more often than 4-6weeks
and in adequate doses too

people going full addict on amphetamines ending up with degenerated brains .. expected
appreciate you sharing however

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>>7694054

>>7694184
>before after
its too late mate, the drugs have done there job.

>>7694184
Are you regularly ingesting in excess of 300mg of amphetamine per day? Because that's what they did to those rats.

STILL GONNA 2 POP SOME MAD EMMIES WHEN I /BOUNCINGBYTHEOUNCE/

so this is just another study that has the same disadvantage every drug user loves to cite when people tell him that his drugs do brain damage. the dose is way higher than what the drug user takes in. it's not comparable that way. the dosage makes the poison. why dont the researchers do experiments with common day dosages? those results would be better suitable to discuss the negative effects of drugs. this is a total rookie flaw. unbelievable. with pi's like that we will never get string arguments against chemical drug use. bravo. a waste of time and money and the drug users won once more.

>>7694054
>this is a fully-published paper
Is it possible to have a partially-published paper? lmao

>>7694224
source?

>>7694664
Because the feeling is different.

For parties mdma>shrooms
In chillout enviroment shrooms>mdma

>>7694184
>after /sci/ told me of its use in hardcore studying

Why would you ever take /sci/'s advice about anything? Are you retarded?

>>7694648
>7 to 13 POTS of coffee daily

thats gallons of coffee
this guy must spend hours pissing every day

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>>7697186
>taking either of those at a party

>>7694664
Ecstasy is almost guaranteed to give you a good time. Mushrooms might, but it also might give you the worst nightmare of your life.

>>7697214
>implying set + setting aren't vitally important to the outcome of the trip
>implying you can't distract yourself or change surroundings to turn things around

OK, you keep doing E man. I'll stick to my psychs and hold off on the E until I see more evidence on it's safety/harm.

On a side note, anyone know long term effects of prescribed levels of amphetamines? I'm prescribed 40mg vyvanse daily, have been for a few months. Before that I was on 54mg concerta for 3.5 years. I keep hearing people talk about neurological damage/psychosis from extended use of these drugs, am I fucked? My psychologist regularly rants to me about how psychs are gonna give me psychosis or bipolar (because my great-grandfather had bi-polar, despite no one else descended from him showing any symptoms) but I feel like the shit she's prescribing me is much more likely to do so than psychs assuming I have genetic predisposition in the first place.

>>7697320
Long term effects of prescribed levels of amphetamine are almost nothing for healthy adults. Mentally there will be a slight adjustment in ability to focus (duh), and you may find it more difficult if you stop taking them after a long time. However you will not become retarded or brain damaged, and actually over time, regular amphetamine normalizes development of the right caudate nucleus
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3801446/

I know, NIDA & .gov whatever, but this study proves that long-term reasonable doses of amphetamine reduces brain abnormalities and causes improved dopamine transmission (but effect on overall dopamine production is unknown, possibly decreased.)

Your blood pressure will drop a small amount as a result of amphetamine use. Your heart gets used to not having to pump as hard and if you already have blood pressure issues this could cause dizziness/fainting if you don't remember to take your meds. A small amount of caffeine would probably correct this.

>>7694247
>375 mg
That's nearing the ceiling dose for MDMA.. I don't see how that is a 'typical' dose in any way whatsoever.

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>>7694054
>5 citations
>1 citation

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>>7694247
>375 to 750mg MDMA is a normal recreational dose
kek

>>7697320
I don't use E anymore, or mushrooms for that matter.
You did emphasis my point though. E will likely give you a similiar experience regardless of set/setting. Mushrooms seem entirely dependent on set and setting.

>>7694247
>overdosing on mdma causes brain damage
gee wow lads put that shit in a paper

>>7697887
>>overdosing on mdma causes brain damage
Paper doesn't even say that:

>The recreational abuse being around 1–3 tablets and thus the amount ranges from 50–200 mg. Based on the average human weight (70 kg), the dose of MDMA-analogs abused is around 5–10/kg. Interestingly, our experiments have proved that 5–10 mg/kg is an appropriate dose to induce stimulatory effects.

>>7697895
What -is- interesting (unlike the fact that an overdose of MDMA in fact acts as a stimulant) is they completely fucked up the calculation.

50-200mg at 70kg bw corresponds to a range of ~.7-2.9mg/kg

>>7697900
>Authors: Senthilkumar S. Karuppagounder, Dwipayan Bhattacharya, Manuj Ahuja, Vishnu Suppiramaniam
Hmmm...

Brain damage Isn't always permanent, and neuron die-off is a normal part of maturity. Autism is caused by a failure to prune neurons and synapses. Apoptosis is a normal part of biology, and cancer is an example of a failure of this mechanism.

Neural stem cells also exist to make new neurons - a better question would be what MDMA does to this mechanism. To be honest, I'm more worried that weed uses neural stem cells to make new neurons - cells can't divide forever.

>>7697910
wheat are you getting at ?

>>7697923
That it's a shit paper and the authors should be fired.

mdma fag here

just don't use it more than 3x a year absolute max

only take enough to be high for 8 hours max

make sure you can sleep well afterwards

only take it with people you want to fuck and who want to fuck you

dont grind your teeth

parachute it, don't snort it

congrats mdma is now reasonably safe and probably safer than binge drinking

>>7697933
well, if you binge-drink with the same 'discipline', then it's pretty 'safe' too

>>7697917
brain damage is a thing you fool
neural stem cells cannot compensate unnatural neuronal loss

so they use a ten-fold higher dosage than the normal drug user?
and see significant effects in rodents who have a thousand-fold lesser brain complexity than humans?
the study's conclusion makes at least a bit sense if you asked me.

>>7697973
>and see significant effects in rodents who have a thousand-fold lesser brain complexity than humans?
Actually the behavioural effects were more pronounced in amphetamine and methamphetamine; they really should have included the oxidative stress figures for those substances for comparison.

If MDMA is less neurotoxic than meth or amphetamine then occasional users of reasonable doses have little to worry about I should think.