Maths PhD

> how hard is it to get a in research once you've got your PhD?
It's trivial. You've already been collaborating with some people in your field by then, and the whole point of doing a PhD is to prepare you to do research independently. You'll have friends in your field or similar enough fields, you'll be invited to conferences to meet people, and so on.

Most people carry on with some aspect of their PhD work that they didn't get to do while they were finishing their thesis. Typically, you'll have a dozen or so ideas floating around, and you will never get to them all because you'll constantly have new ones.

I should actually say that most people try to carry on with their research in this way. Typically, once you start teaching, it takes a couple years to get settled in and really start doing research again.

> Is there anything I should know?
It's very hard to get a full time, tenure-track job these days. Be prepared to move around a lot, do more work for less pay than the established professors, and develop strong feelings of bitterness about the whole broken system.

On the one hand, you'll end up working 60 hour weeks if you want to get your research in. But on the other hand, you're going to get a bunch of time off. One of my friends has himself down to two days of classes a week, and he marks and does his administrative crap on the day between. Four day weekends, every weekend.

>>7637688
>It's very hard to get a get a full time, tenure-track job these days
>and develop strong feelings of bitterness about the whole broken system.
Isn't that more of an American issue?

Why is everyone in a Math PhD autistic?

>undergrad in math grad class
>doing homework
>submit correct proof
>grader is a PhD student
>get points off for referencing a theorem in our textbook instead of proving the case yourself
>get points off for assuming things proven in undergrad analysis instead of proving them all over again

At this point I'm going to get a B despite a firm grasp on the material.

>>7637746
>At this point I'm going to get a B despite a firm grasp on the material.
Complain.

>>7637649
>Or any Maths PhDs on /sci/?
We should do a poll or something. I wonder how qualified /sci/ actually is, mostly high school?

>>7637746
>A firm grasp of the material
A dubious claim coming from someone who cites theorems they haven't produced a proof for.

Still, I don't think you should get points marked off for it. Especially for assuming something you proved in an undergrad class.

>>7637649
related to picture
make algebraic mistakes all the time
>"anon, can you show us on the board?"
>"uhh... suuurree"
>fuck, whats the quadratic formula again

should have studied philosophy, the logic and riddles in maths courses is what gets me excited. i guess if i did study philosophy though, I’d be even more useless to society

>>7638427
the question is a little ambiguous
>extent of education
I can see people asking "wait, what ive finished? what I'm working on? uhh"

>>7637746
>dropping a whole letter grade from a few missed homework problems

sure thing guy

>>7638446
>not being able to derive the quadractic formula by yourself
>not being able to derive all high school tier formulas by yourself

Drop out. Just go to philosophy, you are a lost case.

>>7638457
...that's genuinely a good point.

>>7638449
>>7638427
Yeah, is that what I've finished or what I am working on? uhh

>>7638458
You meany

>>7639483
kek

>>7637649
OP here... gimme some advice.

Like I said, I want to get a PhD and then get into research but my current backup plan is finance, the problem is however - finance takes a large time investment. I'd have to spend lots of time between now and the end of the term reading about finance in order to be able to make a strong application to something like a talent academy while I'm not at uni and then if I get into that, I'd then have to secure an internship for my next year, which would hopefully get me the job. Otherwise my chances of getting into finance are tiny.

So, how should I spend my spare time? Learning more maths or working on the backup plan?

>>7638446
We learned that shit in the form of a song in middle school. Can never forget it.

>>7639686
Same, though we had a sing along circle in preschool about quadratics
>i hate this board

>>7639686
I have sin(a+b) and cos(a+b) memorized to the tune of twinkle twinkle. I don't know why I'm so ashamed of it.

>>7639686
>>7639753
>>7639803
I don't know whether I should call you all plebs for learning it that way, or if I should congratulate you for being born in a country where you're learning shit like that so early on. I didn't even know what cosine is until I was 14 and I didn't cover cos(a+b) until I was 17.

>>7639814
I was being facetious about preschool, because the guy above me is an idiot.
I learned quadratics freshman year of highschool.

>>7639818
>I learned quadratics freshman year of highschool.
Fuck... that still beats me, I was 15.

>>7640030
really? I wasn't ahead or anything, just an algebra course

>>7639753
>>7639814
I live in the US. It is pretty normal for above average students to be doing Algebra 1 in middle school. I mean I remember my class being full, and I think there was another one.

>>7638427
2 PhDs on /sci/. Fuck... that could well be legit.

>>7640038
Fair enough.

File: 546515615.jpg (68KB, 500x641px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 500x641px

>>7637688
>ask any question whatsoever to a mathematician
>It's trivial.

>>7641701
EVERY
SINGLE
TIME

>>7641701
"What's your name?"

>>7637649
>that fucking feeling
help

>>7642546
Practice makes perfect anon.

>>7637649
>Actually, how hard is it to get a in research once you've got your PhD?
Interested.

>>7637688
>It's trivial.
KEK

>>7643679
>KEK
Do tell.

>>7642192
Trivial Gonzalez.

>>7644032
Fuck... expert shitposting in this thread.

>>7637649
So... any PhDs in this thread?

>>7646217
working on it

File: crisis.jpg (829KB, 625x3217px) Image search: [Google]

829KB, 625x3217px

>>7637649
>Is there anything I should know?

Image related. You will work long, hard hours, and you will likely be impoverished. Nobody gives a fuck about what you do, and because of that, funding is getting more and more scarce. The ONLY reason to get a PhD is if you live, breath, fuck mathematics, and you want more.

If this is you, then either specialize in a field that will get you employed in the private sector, like statistics, finance, or a growing applied math field, and/or get into the absolute best graduate school you can. This is because academic jobs will always be a tier lower than your education. i.e. getting your doctorate from Cambridge means you'll likely be teaching at some state university. Getting your PhD from a non-prestigious university means you will likely be working as an adjunct for a long time.

>>7637720
>Isn't that more of an American issue?

Although the problem is particularly bad in America due to our GDP to research investment ratio decreasing, this is a problem across the world.

As far as starting research, it's pretty simple. I recommend that you do undergraduate research because it will look great on your graduate school resume. Talk to your professors and math faculty members about prospective research opportunities. Get your feet wet, see what you're interested in.

>>7646241
>Talk to your professors and math faculty members about prospective research opportunities.

In fact, just talk to your professors in general about the job market and what they would recommend. They know their field better than anyone else, and they will tell it to you better than anyone else.

>>7646241
>abloobloobloo. My PHD in sociology won't get me a job
>mfw anyone who goes into an engineering/manufacturing career gets hired long before they are even out of college
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FruENbeFxl0

>>7646265
Notice I am talking about Math PhDs in particular.

>>7646273
Just making fun of whoever made that image you posted. What you wrote is pretty much spot on.

>>7646284
10/10

>>7646241
What does undergrad research in maths normally entail?

>>7646265
>anyone who goes into an engineering/manufacturing career gets hired long before they are even out of college
No, that is very much untrue.

>>7646919
Agreed.

>>7646919
>>7647095
sorry, should have written 'people who aren't fuckups and put in the effort during co-ops'

>>7646241
>Although the problem is particularly bad in America due to our GDP to research investment ratio decreasing, this is a problem across the world.
Any sources for how it is in the UK?

>>7647347
It's similar. Tories are trying to cut spending across the board (except for muh nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers) and education is included.

Getting a tenure track position at a Russell Group uni will likely prove to be a very difficult task, especially so at "elite" institutions such as Imperial, UCL, Oxford or Cambridge

>>7647412
>Getting a tenure track position at a Russell Group uni will likely prove to be a very difficult task
True... is there anyway with good info on the UK tenure track?

>>7647309
>during co-ops
...I'm still not used to that word.

>>7647412
>It's similar. Tories are trying to cut spending across the board (except for muh nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers) and education is included.
Hmm, at least less people are going for masters, and therefore less are going for PhD.

>>7638401
The average age on 4chan is going up all the time. I'm a senior in college and I'm an oldfag who started browsing /b/ when I was 12. It won't be too long before this place is full of PhDs, if it isn't already.

>>7651196
>It won't be too long before this place is full of PhDs, if it isn't already.
Only time will tell, but I suspect PhDs have better things to do with their time. Even as a college student, I had better things to do in my time.

I wonder, where are the 12 year olds of the last decade lurking now? Reddit? Tumblr?

>>7651196
Ph.D student reporting in. Discovered 4chan at 18.

>>7651370
same here

>>7651370
im 18 does this mean I will be a PhD student??!?

File: Germany elite uni.jpg (224KB, 1400x773px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 1400x773px

>>7647412
>It's similar. Tories are trying to cut spending across the board (except for muh nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers) and education is included.
This. Go to Germany, anon. I'm headed that way myself. They seem much more serious about science funding, especially these years. Nature N&C even made an article about it.

http://www.nature.com/news/germany-claims-success-for-elite-universities-drive-1.18312

>>7646217
>So... any PhDs in this thread?
Go one, in physics.

>>7646241
Very true. At the same time politicians and the general population alike expect and demand continuously improved products, better technology, better medicine and healthcare and more. They never give a thought to the cost of this process.

>>7647347
>Any sources for how it is in the UK?
Via colleagues I hear that there is an enormous pressure also at top UK universities such as Imperial College. Money is tight everywhere and internal warfare is getting ugly.

>>7651381
>Go to Germany
Agreed. German universities have a good reputation also abroad. In fact Germany was the financial, technological, cultural and intellectual centre of Europe for a long, long time. Electing this Austrian guy was the greatest mistake of all time but reputation is steadily recovering.

What should be done for an anon that doesn't speak German?

>>7637746
I would mark you down too whining faggot, especially if the proof is trivial.

>>7653556
An increasing number of German unis are offering programmes in English to attract foreign students. See TU Berlin's master of space engineering http://www.mse.tu-berlin.de/masters-programme/curriculum/ for instance (where I applied). You only need to speak English and not be shitty student.

I have a question relating to the OP.

I'm planning on continuing my education after I receive my undergrad, with the hopes of getting my phd in math. However, I'm still trying to figure out what field I want to get into. I really enjoy Linear Algebra and Number Theory, so I was thinking Algebraic geometry would be awesome. Could any kind anons help a poor soul out?

>>7654115
>so I was thinking Algebraic geometry would be awesome
Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Surfaces-Algebraic-Theoretical-Mathematical/dp/3540711740/

Book is meant for physicists but will work great if you want to get a good overview of what modern algebraic geometry is about.

Do pure math and purse the field if you want to be completely unemployable and useless to society as a whole with no real skill sets outside of niched super-unimportant-to-the-real-world field you studied for 5-6 years.

It is better to do math undergrad and then apply it to another field for grad (like cs, bio, statistics) so you aren't in your late 20s or mid 30s will no skills sets and no real income. Eventually you'll understand there is a life outside of academic (like relationships, friends, social things) and no one gives a fuck about pure math and you can't relate to anyone and you'll be broke because you don't have real skill sets employers are looking for.

Oh, wants that programming job? Should have majored in CS. Want the data science job? Should have majored in Statistics. Etc.

File: 1428198525553.png (527KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

527KB, 1280x1024px

>>7637649
>pretty solid
>not Oxbridge

You got some issues OP

>>7654376
Russel Group is usually fine.

>>7637649
Say, how generous is the typical PhD funding anyway? Enough to live off and pay the fees? If so, why would've you get a PhD?

>>7654376
>You got some issues OP
Is that not implied by wanting to do a Maths PhD?

OP... Dont let people on here get you down. Give a fuck about what gets you paid a lot and just do what you love!
I finished undergrad math last year at one of the best german universities. Had finance as a minor but realized I just dont love it. I love pure maths and logic, riddles and thinking. So I switched to a master in philosophy this year. I am really happy with it and I dont care about what will be in two years when I will try to get a job.
Math is so beautiful and totally worth it!

>>7654115
Ueno: Introduction to Algebraic Geometry
Fulton: Algebraic Curves
Sheldon Katz: Enumerative Geometry and String Theory (sort of hazy at times but lots and lots of fun)

>>7637746
>>7638457

I'm not this guy, but in my first year of head school, I got a C in Real I. So the next semester I refused to hand in my homework, and I got a B. I left that school after that year, and I'll finish my masters at some other school later. Actually working in Math is easy as fuck though. People are in awe if you can do a Chi Test.

>>7655973
Grad scool, not head school. Head school was boot camp.

>>7655973
Seemes legit.

>>7655973
>People are in awe if you can do a Chi Test.
You have got to be joking.

>>7637649
>first year undergrad
>wants to get a PhD already

you ain't seen nothing yet kiddo... pshhh.. nothing personnel but wait until you get to the real math

>>7657824
This.

>>7657824
>you ain't seen nothing yet kiddo... pshhh.. nothing personnel but wait until you get to the real math
Just looking at my career's choices, that' all, PhD looks very promising, and fuck - maths is my passion anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oC5WnNL1fk

>>7658125
hope you enjoy teaching calculus to drooling retards

>>7646241
>mfw these graphs never scare me cause I know I'm better than the large majority of people so I'll reach my objectives anyway

>>7658876
>hope you enjoy teaching calculus to drooling retards
Why retards? I don't plan to go into high school teaching.

>>7659190
Good luck.

>>7655057
>Say, how generous is the typical PhD funding anyway? Enough to live off and pay the fees? If so, why would've you get a PhD?
Anyone?

>>7660787
Lol anon ;^)

>>7660787
Depends where you do your PhD. Here in Europe grad students usually have basic labour rights, meaning they have the right to a minimum pay and a minimum amount of vacation days etc. I don't know the situation in the US but I do hear terrible grad student stories usually come from there.

>>7660846
The US extends labor protections to grad students. The problem is that no one really checks to make sure they are followed and no one cares if your advisor abuses the shit out of you, demanding 80 hour weeks. The real trick to enjoying grad school is finding and advisor you get along with and isn't a tyrant (unless that is what you want for some awful reason).

>>7660846
>>7660878
Currently, the way I'm seeing it is that if the funding is as generous as it seems, I'm wondering why anyone wouldn't do a PhD.

>>7660881
>I'm wondering why anyone wouldn't do a PhD.
(other than not liking the subject)

>>7660881
Wut? I finished my engineering degree 4 years ago, and then did the PhD. During those 4 years my m8s from engi school worked as engineers or junior consultants, making a bunch of money and getting plenty of industry acquaintances and rep inside their company, taking holidays, coming home before dinner most of the time, etc.
While I spent those 4 years in a dorm room, making no money other what I strictly need, working day and night on my research and manuscript. And the job prospects I'm looking at right now are ok but nothing wonderfully better than what I could have done 4 years ago. In fact I have less options in a way.

You do a PhD because you got the fire within you, it's still a very heavy investment.

And complaining about "but muh debts!" is irrelevant, since American post-PhD salaries are just so incredibly higher than European ones. I'm looking at 40k if I get lucky.

File: 1332512466762.gif (298KB, 200x150px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 200x150px

>>7655057
>>7660787
>>7660846
>>7660878
>>7660881
>>7661224
>Graduate in Chemical Engineering from decent uni.
>2 job offers from my internships, 1 low 60k offer at an R&D lab for a biotech company, one 90k starting at a chem manufacturing plant doing process management.
But,
>Prof. convinces me to stay for a very interesting project.
>Convinces me that I'm a smart and special snowflake that has a future in academia.
>Retarded enough to believe him.
>Finish PhD at 24, several great publications in high impact journals.
>0 (zero) job offers.
>Chem plant owner doesn't want to hire me anymore because he thinks I'm over qualified.
>Didn't get my degree from MIT so academia doesn't want me as a full time lecturer.
>Industry job hunt fruitless.
>Friends all getting married, buying houses, being successful with their 6 figure salaries.
>Adviser: "Want to do a post-doc with me ;^)"
>mfw


Kill me. Just fucking kill me.

>>7661250
Hang on bruv, we'll make it.
If I get another retard who tells me "you did the PhD because you wanted to chill out for another 3 years" or "you were afraid to confront the working environment, weren't you?", I'mma murder someone though, for real.

>>7661258
The sad thing is I still love the work I do. Most industry R&D jobs are so boring.

Also forgot to add
>>7661250
>No one calls me doctor
;_;

>>7661250
I have almost the same story. I had a good job offer as the result of a co-op placement the year before I finished my BSc, but turned down a 6 figure starting salary that would have had me in a management role in a couple of years, all because I was convinced I'd do better by going to grad school. The economy turned while I was in school, and I ended up doing research on a part-time grant. I had a dozen research groups waiting on my results at every turn, and I couldn't even afford to eat two meals a day. I was making under $4/hour, when all my time was figured in. I actually applied at McDonald's because I was that desperate, but got turned down because they figured I'd leave as soon as I found something better. I spent the next year digging ditches and building fences during the day, and working for my research grant at night, wishing for that cushy McDonald's job.

Eventually I gave up and enrolled in trades school. It was a good decision.

>>7661224
>And complaining about "but muh debts!" is irrelevant, since American post-PhD salaries are just so incredibly higher than European ones. I'm looking at 40k if I get lucky.
Meh, salaries for post-docs in the us aren't much higher than in europe (though the current usd-eur exchange rate did notch up the difference a bit). Academia doesn't pay exceedingly well anywhere. Perhaps you're talking industry, but then again, it depends a lot on where you get hired. My best friend, who went for an intership at Airbus and got hired permanently later, makes twice as me now.

(source : frog in america)

>>7661321
Now, now, don't get me wrong, by "post-PhDs", I didn't mean "academic postdoc", I meant "the job opportunity you get as a PhD in America".
The 40K I mention here isn't for a postdoc, it's for a permanent industry position, if you get lucky. For most PhD it hovers around 30K.

There are plenty PhDs in America who get hired at 80K. You think that happens here? Goddam, it's an end-career salary for a good engineer.

>>7655057
The funding is poor compared to what you'd make while working, especially when you consider that you'll typically be putting in long weeks that would pay overtime if you put in that effort at work. You will probably never make up for several years' lost income, and even if you do, it'll come at the end of your career. But the reduced seniority/pension time that occurs because you started your career later will offset that, as will things like interest and inflation.

Basically, you're giving up the best years of your life to do research, and you're getting not much (if any) long-term benefit for it.

>>7661344
Yeah well, systems are different. I'm coming back to France once I finish my PhD here, and I don't think I'm making the wrong choice. It took me a lot of time to take that decision, but when I weight everything in (not just money, money, money), I feel like I'll be happier and more fullfilled in Europe. If I get offered a dream position here in the US I might come back on that, but otherwise no.

File: German Living Conditions.jpg (63KB, 1762x291px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 1762x291px

>>7661344
>The 40K I mention here isn't for a postdoc, it's for a permanent industry position, if you get lucky. For most PhD it hovers around 30K.
Christ Europe is depressing.

>>7661486
I am German and this is bullshit. The post comes from /pol/ so I'm guessing he's just being butthurt at the refugee policy (or at the /pol/arised view he has of it).

>>7661508
I'm German and it's true. My family in Africa has more spacious housing for far cheaper. An engineer working in the US will earn about twice as much when considering PPP as one working in Germany. We might have better health care and public transportation, but it is fucking impossible to raise a family here.

>>7661508
>he's just being butthurt at the refugee policy

Considering what just happened in Paris I'd be butthurt too if my government forced in a fifth column that no one wanted and then censored it's citizens and told them they were racists for not wanting to pay their executioners.

File: serveimage.jpg (40KB, 600x654px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 600x654px

>>7661514
>>7661486
Topkek. Samefag and not even hiding it.

File: No..jpg (22KB, 410x210px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 410x210px

>>7661523
Calls the mods. I don't give a fuck.

Anyway I don't see why it would matter if 514 was actually me.

>>7661532
kek

>>7637649
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZO0WWULLA

>>7658125
kek, you don't even know what math is

File: 1362610749044.jpg (8KB, 252x240px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 252x240px

>>7662978
These are fucking based mane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lfUEefilVI

>>7638401
>mostly high school?

Plenty of qualified people on /sci/. It's just the unqualified ones who post the most.

>>7662978
at first I was like "nah, he's exaggerating, but it's fun." And then I remembered what I am doing for the last 3 years.

Not OP, but currently studying Applied Maths at the best university in my country, and hope to apply in two years to an exchange program to a prestigious university in France. My question is, how do i make myself a better candidate? Of course grades and recommendation letters are essential, but what other assets would make me more eligible than other candidates?

File: 1429314088502.jpg (131KB, 530x530px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 530x530px

>>7663423
Maybe winning math tournaments at school would've counted, but I guess it's too late now

>>7662978
OP here... this is exactly the reason why I've only asked lectures that I've spoke to a lot about PhD stuff. Like >>7657824 and >>7663006 said, I've not done any serious maths yet. I deserve to be wrecked... that's why I'm only here to learn more.

Also, one note - why does the guy in the video say "maths" (UK) when they're clearly talking about US unis?

Funny that the video recommends 'How to prove it' by Veilman, I've been meaning to read it for a while now...

>>7663425
>but I guess it's too late now
Yep.

>>7639677
What area of finance are you interested in?

>>7659190
>tfw second in my level and I still lack confidence

>>7664507
The best way to tell whether you're at a good enough uni is to see whether you're getting wrecked. If you're breezing through, you probably should have gone to a better uni. If you're getting wrecked too hard, you shouldn't be there. If you're getting wrecked a reasonable amount, that's just fine.

If you're at a top uni and still breezing through then god speed.