did feminists cause incels? discuss.

>discuss
I'm a pickle morty heh

>>39555653
clearly incels are huge cucks that should stop complaining. fucking feminazis need to shut up as well.
rick and morty is gonna bring this country together

no. my dad has like 4 incel friends that were born from the the 1960s, mom who married my dad from the same hs and knew of a few incel neighbours herself too. incels have existed though every century regardless of feminism.

incels in the first world are self made by their environment but are definitely influenced to succumb to not breed or achieve a better life to start a family

I never noticed he was missing an arm.

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Nope, incels are an inherent part of natural selection/evolution.

What feminism and the sexual revolution did was lower the threshold at which one is condemned to a life of incel-dom.

Without the internet, social media, hypergamy, and our increasingly ecocentric self-obsessed modern society, many of the 'robots' here would be well adjusted normies.

>>39555933
Feminism came around way way way before the 1960s. I'm not sure if you were trying to make a point of this or not. Feminism also predates the 1980s and 2000s so I'm a little confused by where you were going with that line of thought.

>>39555977

the 1960s was the time of the 'sexual revolution' when there was a massive culture shift in attitudes to sex. before that general attitudes towards it were very conservative, regardless of when feminism became a thing.

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>>39555975
Most incels are so because they can't be master seducers, in times before feminism all you need to do was having a body capable of physical work (i.e. not being deformed or malnourished) to get a wife.

>>39556004
That only further disproves your point. The sexual revolution is the single biggest contributor to the existence of incels. There was a massive culture shift in attitudes to sex. If women are fucking so many dudes why are there so many incels? Do you think if females started fucking even more dudes there would be less incels? Obviously women fucking tons of Chads isn't getting the incels laid.

>>39556007

Even in the modern day you don't need to be a 'master seducer' to get laid occasionally or find a girlfriend/wife. You just need basic social skills and some kind of respectable career trajectory. Only a small minority of men are good at going out and willfully seducing women, hence the 'Chad' meme, yet most guys end up in long-term relationships.

Incels even in the 21st century are generally spergs who struggle to make friends, often with mental disorders with autism and social phobia, or otherwise NEET types who struggle to support themselves/integrate into society.

>>39556052

I'm not the guy you originally responded to. I agree with what you are saying. Sexual revolution made women more hypergamous hence more incels.

There were always uncles, but they just tended to die in wars as cannon fodder or were just run out of society because while you can never have too many women in society, you can have too many men (like ours).

>>39555975
I really really like this image. May I please save it

>>39556114

Uncles? I meant incels.

Incels caused incels. In fact incels are not even real but a meme, the correct term is volcels.

>>39556164
Volcel is a redundant term. Might as well just say cels because celibacy is voluntary by definition

>>39556164

>incels are actually voluntary incels
>lol you jus gotta get out there an talk 2 grils jus be urself

This is exactly what it sounds like you are implying. Go kill yourself.

>>39556164
>incels caused incels

women caused incels.

4chan caused incels

>>39557212
What is preventing them from getting laid other than not trying?

>>39556121
yes but you have to quote anonymous every time you use it ;^)

>>39557265
Proofs. Incels are incels by their own choice.

>>39557306
no women want to have sex with them

>>39557316
Proofs. Incels are incels because women won't have sex with them.

>>39557316
>because I say so
g

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Mental Illness causes incels. It's that simple.
Shaming people for being incels is akin to making fun of someone for having a lisp or a physical deformity.
It's reprehensible.

>>39557320
That's not a very convincing argument.

>>39557333
Not because incels never once try talking to girls and shut themselves in the basement?

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>>39557420

Incels are unable to find sexual partners because of the hypergamous nature of women's sexual preferences, combined with physiological abnormalities/mental illnesses (such as autism, social phobia, etc) which prevent them from being able to communicate in a manner which will convince women to have sex with them. That and the fact they are usually pretty fucking unattractive physically.

I know you probably won't consider this a very convincing argument either, but many of us have tried to normie bullshit of 'jus talk to girls lolol fake it till u make it brah' and it doesn't fucking work. Just because you and your friends manage to get laid from time to time without much effort, doesn't mean everybody can.

Why is this so hard for normies to understand?

>>39555975
>What feminism and the sexual revolution did was lower the threshold at which one is condemned to a life of incel-dom.

>Without the internet, social media, hypergamy, and our increasingly ecocentric self-obsessed modern society, many of the 'robots' here would be well adjusted normies.

These.
Also, modern society, science, and technology save undesirable or otherwise "faulty" people who in other circumstances would be weeded out by natural selection.

>>39557506
What you call "normie bullshit" is actually robot memes. For some reason you think this is what people say when it's not true at all. The only ones who say such retarded things are angry robots who are not smart enough to understand that it's them who are imagining it.

There is literally nothing that prevents you or 99% of incels from getting laid. But you would rather wallow in self-pity and make any possible excuses for not doing what everyone else is doing to get sex.

>>39557627
Robots would be dead in the old days. These days neetbux and tendies keep them alive. It's unnatural.

Incels always existed, however female liberation and modern contraception methods did increase their numbers. Western females are free to pursue sexual partners without the risk of pregnancy or any prevalent social dogma, thus the so called "hypergamy". Furthermore, the fact that women no longer necessarily need to depend on males for financial subsistence means more subpar males ending in inceldom; even though beta providers still exist, it's no longer as much of a dogma.

>>39557799

Like what? What the fuck are you supposed to do if you are ugly and have chronic aspergers and social anxiety?

Like I've said before, many of us including myself have tried to improve ourselves in general, and practice our communication and flirting skills by talking to women, dressing normally, personal grooming etc. For the actual robots (as opposed to the 18 year old kids who come on here whining about their virginity and 'foreveralone' status, before getting a gf 6 months later), it doesn't work because we are biologically predetermined to be unfuckable.

But the likes of you always just turn round and say "No you didn't try hard enough you gotta do more" despite the fact we've already tried all the obvious motivational bullshit normies always throw at us.

>>39557893
But /r9k/ always says that only 40% of males in history reproduced. The number now is much higher. How can there be more incels when more men are having sex than before and getting it is easier?

>>39557923
Do you have actually diagnosed mental illnesses? Have you ever tried to ask a girl out or set up tinder or a dating site account?

>>39558090

Yes and yes and yes. I've even been on dates both from IRL and Tinder. It doesn't work, once they realise how fucked I am it quickly goes downhill from there.

Are you finally going to admit that some people don't really stand a chance? I fully acknowledge that a large percentage of this board is just whiny teenagers who will inevitably live normal lives once they grow up, however that isn't all of us. Some of us are genuinely too maladjusted for it to work whatever we do.

>>39558198

What are you standards for women? Maybe they're not realistic.

>incels can't get laid

You either aren't trying or you're to the point of non functioning.

I'm genuinely ugly as fuck, but because I talk to ugly girls, I get laid a lot.

You guys just aren't trying at all.

Really, the "Just be yourself and talk to them" is true.
>b-but my oneitis rejected me when I showed her my true self
Just because you failed a few times, or even every time, doesn't mean that you'll fail everytime.

Stop blaming others for your problems, and fix them yourself.

>>39555631
There are always going to be incels, and I don't think it's entirely women's fault. It's fair for them to have preferences and there's always going to be more men than women, so incels are an inevitability.
What I can't stand is the complete lack of sympathy and understanding, and that a lot of people (not just women) not only feel indifference, but disdain and disgust for these men, even though their circumstances are beyond their control.
Nobody cares about the losers, and I hate that.

>>39558198
You're in the small minority then. The vast majority are just like you said, whiny teenagers who have never tried to make any effort.

>>39558292
Very few are so badly fucked up they don't stand a chance. Nearly everyone is just whining about things that are fully in their control.

>>39557320
IT'S EITHER 100 PERCENT OR ZERO GOSH YOU GUYS JUST ACCEPT THE TRUUUUUTHHHHHHHH I'M A VICTIM OF WOMENZZZ

>>39558230

Not very high, why on earth do you assume otherwise? I'll go on a date with any woman who's interested pretty much, regardless of whether I'm that attracted to her, just to see where it goes. When I have very occasionally managed to get a date they're always excruciatingly awful and I always come back wanting to off myself. Before I accepted my fate I tried it on with some really not so pretty women and still got nowhere. The 'lower your standards' meme is a load of fucking horseshit for actual robots.

Instead of trying to find flaws in my strategy why can't you just admit I might be unfuckable?

>>39558313
How do you know, anon? And how much of our lives is really under our control?

>>39558269
>Really, the "Just be yourself and talk to them" is true.
Part of this is why I think the Red Pill and PUA type stuff works for a lot of guys.You're basically tricking yourself into getting rid of your nervousness and spaghetti-dropping.
It is at the point where you stop caring about whether you "won't screw this up" or "if she'll feel the same way" or "if I'm attractive enough" that you will begin to have success.
It's ironic, really.

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Anyone who blames their circumstances on their environment is a worthless sack of shit, no matter how true it may be or seem to be.

>>39558342
Whenever someone is whining about "things out of my control", they never are. Or they are irrelevant. Meme excuses for not trying.

>>39558342
>And how much of our lives is really under our control?

None. The motivational douchebags are the kinds of people who believe in free will simply because they've never given the problem a second of intelligent thought. Everything you are is a result of environment and genetics, "you" control neither, hence this sense of self you have controlling your actions is a giant fucking delusion.

>>39558371

The problem is that it only works if you're at least somewhat good looking. If you asked the TRP idiots to watch how I act around women (and people in general), they'd probably say I am alpha as fuck. I'm a huge guy (Huge as in tall. By way of comparison, I'm only slightly shorter than 'The Mountain' from Game of Normies' and generally just act like I don't give a fuck, because, I don't. I realized that since women aren't going to give me the time of day no matter how I act because I'm also fucking hideous, there's no real need to try and cater to their feelings so I just do whatever the fuck I feel like. Basically I don't take shit from anyone because people treat me badly regardless of whether I try to be polite or not.

It hasn't gotten me laid. It can be funny though because women (and most guys) are terrible cowards and totally freak out if you act aggressively towards them.

>>39558429
Since you are so intelligent and knowledgeable, why don't you explain free will doesn't exist.

>>39558445
>they'd probably day I am alpha as fuck
No. You are projecting things. Try it actually instead of believing you are acting alpha. They will tell you probably that you are beta or creepy.

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>>39555631
The internet did. By "the internet", I don't mean the internet itself but, rather, you faggots using the internet did. You literally go out of your way to create memes that spread like wildfire to global population consciousness and generally make yourselves seem as undesirable as possible. And that's just one single item on the list of stupid things you guys do in the internet that brought about the eternal virginity of an entire class of males.

I like to think that this is natural though. With the population this high, 'the wheat needs to be separated from the chaff', as it were.

>>39558338
>Not very high, why on earth do you assume otherwise?

I didn't assume anything, I asked a question.
And the reason I asked is because so many robots are running around on this board going "women are ebil for not lowering their standards to accommodate me; but no way I'm going to date a fattie".

>>39558484

There's a reason that with enough data you can pretty much predict what people will do in the vast majority of situations without actually knowing them personally.

Also, free will doesn't really work because we're not really in control of our own minds. How can you make a decision based on 'free will' when you are under the influence of a cocktail of chemicals, through no choice of your own, at all times?

>>39558484

You want me to explain why free will doesn't exist? You don't even need intelligence for that. Just look at how the world works, deterministic physical laws, this is totally incompatible with anything that could be conceived as 'free will'.

>But muh quantum randomness

Even if there are random events happening this is at the subatomic level, the macro-scale world operates according to Newtonian laws. And besides, even if all events were random, this is still incompatible with free will.

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>>39558429
>>39558542

Arguing about free will doesn't matter at all because as humans our perception of the universe as a linear progression of time makes it so free will or the lack thereof is unidentifiable.
Free will does not exist, but you're just making excuses so you don't have to take any blame when something actually is your own fault.
Basically you're actually a brainlet. I bet you thought you were smart but lazy in high school too.

>>39558502

What a retarded platitude. The belief is not important. What is important is what others see since pretty much everyone you and I encounter is a complete mouth-breathing retard, at the best of times. Even an autist like me can fool most people.

But, as I said, it doesn't matter, because your actions are judged based on how you look. So, someone like me, for instance, staring at a woman in the grocery store gets the police called whereas when Chad does it, someone has to come mop up the floor between the woman's legs.

>>39558557

Yeah, it was totally my fault for being born with a hideous face. Why didn't I just have some Personal Responsibility, give God a firm handshake, and demand that I wasn't going to leave until he gave me a new one?

>>39558542
>>39558552
You should be world famous philosophers and scientists and winners of multiple prizes. Why are you nobodies in the basement if you have such revolutionary thinking?

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>>39555631
>did feminists cause incels?
Duh.

>>39555721
>clearly incels are huge cucks that should stop complaining.
Fuck off Chad you wouldn't understand. I'm a 25 year old man who has never even held hands with the opposite sex.

>>39558590
Indeed I don't understand. Why have you never once even talked to a girl?

>>39558589

It's not revolutionary thinking. And since there is no free will, none of the thinking is really "mine", anyways.

>>39558587
It wasn't your fault, but neither was it anybody else's.
You're looking for a scapegoat to pin all your pains on.

>>39558615

If it wasn't my fault, why should I take blame for it?

>>39558635
I'm not telling you to take the blame, I'm telling you to stop pinning the blame on others.
But there are still times when you must realize that you aren't perfect, and that what happened to you was at the fault of your flaws.
If you can't admit that, when that time comes, you'll remain an immature brat who looks down on others from his impenetrable stronghold of "it's not my fault, I couldn't do anything, free will doesn't exist anyway."

>>39558445
Ok, well,
the fact that you mention how most people are terrible cowards and that you
>don't take shit from anyone
leads me to believe that you are very intimidating all of the time. Which doesn't endear anybody to most people.

I have a "beta" demeanor, so it means I can step into the acquaintance zone very easily. It is from here I can be talkative and unapologetically "odd" or "weird".

>>39558557
>>39558557

How can something be exclusively "your" fault when "you" don't exist and are just the result of a linear chain of events that preceded you?

>hurrdurr u stupid but u think u smart cos i disagree with you

fuck off. I claimed nothing of the kind. I'm of exceptionally mediocre intelligence and I fully admit it, but I can still use reason.

>>39558589

The fuck? I'm not trying to be pretentious, this is just philosophy 101. Free will doesn't exist.

>>39558615

Have you ever considered the possibility that something can be an unfortunate result of nature and doesn't have to have the blamed or attributed to some specific person or set of people?

>>39558669

I'm not blaming anyone else. I was born ugly. That's how it is. Genetics can be a bitch sometimes.

>>39558679

Yes, and a big core of the TRP stuff is that you should, at very least, subtly hint that you are capable of violence. What the hell do you think lifting is for?

I call people out on their shit, especially women (Who generally aren't used to it.) So, if there are shit tests, then I'm at the very least not coming off like a pushover. I'm not any more attractive than I was when I was the socially awkward autist who never talked to anyone.

>>39558691
You say free will doesn't exist. Others say it does. That's philosophy 101. You have never taken a philosophy class have you?

>>39555631
Nature caused incels, feminism only exacerbated their numbers.

>>39558715
Okay, so you're an angry abusive jerk to everyone. Hmmm. I wonder why you can't get girls.

>>39558590
>>39555631
>Being this delusional
Feminism didn't create ugly, socially retarded spergs you spastic fucks. There have always been people who have died virgins because they don't meet the par, its called natural selection.

>>39558716

>Others say it does

Those people are morons who had to literally redefine what free will means (to something most of us would not recognise as 'free will') in order to make their argument. Whether I have taken a philosophy class is irrelevant.

>>39558727
>implying that attractiveness is based on morality
Stop this.

>>39558757
What if you're the moron who had to literally redefine free will? You're really overestimating your intelligence, especially when you're a highschool dropout NEET.

>>39558727

Yes, I get called a jerk because people see that I am ugly and then therefore judge everything I do negatively. If I looked like a Greek God, they'd be fine with it.

According to TRP, I should be swimming in pussy for acting so "alpha." I'm not.

>>39558691
Boiling down the nature of the universe and human nature into a linear chain of events is utterly pointless. As I said, the conclusion means nothing from the human perspective because we live within that linear chain of events and see it as a dynamic flow of cause and effect that we can partake in.
Claiming free will doesn't exist is not intelligent, it means nothing.

>Have you ever considered the possibility that something can be an unfortunate result of nature and doesn't have to have the blamed or attributed to some specific person or set of people?
Blaming it on the environment is just as pointless too. Someone saying, for example, "I am a mean person because I grew up in the slums" is a denial of their humanity. It reduces people to machines that take inputs and spit out a result. It may be true, but humanity exists through the denial of that reality.

>>39558766

I've already stated I consider my intelligence to be mediocre, but that doesn't make me incapable of using reason. I'm not overestimating anything.

When people say "I exercised my free will when I choose this career", they mean that they freely chose that career out of a number of possible options and could have chosen to act otherwise. They don't simply mean "I chose to act according to my predetermined will"

>>39558769
If you looked like a greek god and behaved like an angry abusive jerk, people would think you're an angry abusive jerk.

>According to TRP
How do you know? Have you ever had an impartial observer check if you actually act alpha or not?

>>39558823
Are you saying out of possible career choices, all were fake except one and they really had no choice?

>>39558791

Now you are admitting that you have to literally deny the nature of reality for your argument to hold water.

>As I said, the conclusion means nothing from the human perspective because we live within that linear chain of events and see it as a dynamic flow of cause and effect that we can partake in.

Yes, and our own sense of self and agency is an illusion. "You" do not exist. You might think that "you" made yourself do something, but that "you" that you think is guiding your actions isn't real.

>>39558867

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

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>>39558855

No. They'd turn me into a rich model who would get to travel the world and shit. Pic related.

>>39558872
>Now you are admitting that you have to literally deny the nature of reality for your argument to hold water.
What I am saying is that humanity is built upon this illusion, and upholding it is within our best interest.

>Yes, and our own sense of self and agency is an illusion.
Once again it does not matter. Even if it is an illusion, it is still a sensation we have that is built into the way we perceive the world.

Do you think your realization means anything? Will you change the way you live? How so?

>>39559109
More like, they would think you are an angry abusive jerk and stay away from you.

>>39558892
Too bad it's nothing you can prove. That's why philosophy is a meme. Only an idiot would think that anything in the free will debate is provable scientifically.

>>39559159
Actually, don't forget quantum mechanics could possibly poke holes in deterministic thought.

>>39555631
Kinda
The death of the nuclear family
We have 2 generations of "men" and women raised by single or in broken homes.

So the men are feminised because only had female parent figure. Programmed to server woman like they served their mothers.

The women are enslaved by their emotions. Being raised by their mothers they only saw men as tools and never learned to appreciate them for humans. So now their adults enslaved to their hypergamus nature seeing men as tools.

And the minority of children raised in a good home get out in the world and get involved with one of these broken people. They try to recreate their home environments and people are wondering why marriage rate is plummeting.

>>39558301
Do you really think all 31,000 subscribers to the incels subreddit haven't tried at all? You're the one making stuff up to fit your just-world delusion that those who "deserve" it get laid. The truth of the matter is that incels are not desirable physically, its as simple as that.

>>39556076
>You just need basic social skills and some kind of respectable career trajectory
As someone who goes to a top uni for engineering I know many with these qualities who are virgins.

>>39559110

I acknowledge that the delusional belief in free will may effect the outcomes of some people's lives, however, you can't always choose what to believe, and if something has been shown to you to be false, it's very difficult to trick yourself into believing it, if not outright impossible.

And relating back to the original topic of this thread, the deterministic nature of the universe will guarantee for many people that whatever they try to do, the outcome will be the same, and they will always end up failing in their attempts to find a girlfriend/S.O. or just somebody to fuck, and they will become more and more depressed and lonely the more they try. Therefore, it's cruel to constantly feed these people with false hope, claiming that it is within their power to overcome the limitations that their physical unattractiveness and mental illness put on them, when in reality it isn't. For some people, it is far kinder to try to help them acknowledge and come to term with the fact that they may not enjoy the same pleasures in life that others do, and instead, try and give them ways to find happiness in spite of this.

>>39559484
The epitome of "incels" was desirable enough physically. He simply never once tried. It's perfectly reasonable to assume 99% of them are just whiners.

>>39559159

Neuroscience goes a long way in demonstrating that free will is nonsense. You show a great deal of ignorance and naivety in that statement. Whether it "proves" it is irrelevant, you could argue that it's impossible to "prove" anything empirically.

>>39559502
>It's reasonable to generalize 99% of a group of people because of the actions of literally one person
Normies, everyone.

>>39559497
> the deterministic nature of the universe will guarantee for many people that whatever they try to do, the outcome will be the same
Bruh, determinism is saying they could only choose one option in the first place and thus the result would be the same according to that choice. Are you a moron?
The universe doesn't work like some kind of shoddy time travel sci fi novel. It doesn't work like "anon goes back in time to tell himself to do something different but nothing changes because fate".
What you're saying is no matter what a robot does, he will always be a robot because he is destined to be a robot, but that is not how the world works and there is no proof to back such a weird assertion.

>>39559518
Show proofs, not memes. You especially are not being very convincing when you insult everyone around you despite clearly not being very smart.

>>39559502
What the fuck are you talking about? You're delusional, you people will do ANYTHING to do fit your humanist just-world nonsense that if someone doesn't get anything they just simply aren't trying hard enough or that they don't deserve it for some reason. The sexual free market is mostly based on physical attraction, and those who are undesirable do not get to participate

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Read this /lit/ thread to understand why arguing over determinism and 'muh no free will' is dumb
>>>/lit/9973074

I blame the social media fueled insecurity generation.
Incels on reddit legit never talked to a girl but already feel bad because of some retarded twitter picture. No father figure

>>39559497
I agree 100% with this. If everyone understood this then people would (hopefully) not be so dismissive or straight up hateful towards unsuccessful and unattractive men.

Unfortunately places like r/incels are not helping when 90% of the posts are about how "women deserve the rope" or how it's impossible to be happy if you're not a male model

>>39559559

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23367-brain-imaging-spots-our-abstract-choices-before-we-do/

Calling something a "meme" is not an argument. Like I said, if you want proof, you should probably stick to the world of maths and abstract logic. With empirical matters, there is always room for uncertainty of conclusions.

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>>39559562
He's talking about the Rodge, I think

>>39555631
yes bb. This whole atmosphere demonizing men and sexual desire is just a big, toxic atmosphere for any young man and his sexual confidence