Does free will actually exist?

>>39211781
Short answer: no.txt

>>39211781
I don't see what It matters. Free will won't cure my depression, and determinism won't either so whatever

>>39211781
nah, it does not. but whether or not its just an illusion ultimately meaningless since it doesn't change your perception of reality one bit.

Does autism actually exist?

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>>39211781
Nope, not that it really matters though.

>>39211781
why would you ever think that it does?

>>39211781
Kinda but basically yes

>>39211781
free will exist but it s conditionned by your status at birth, your genetics and your upbringing.
Only a few people can bypass these barriers, and these are the real winners at the game of life

>>39211781
I have the free will to make this post. I just did it, so yeah I guess.

>>39211958
How do you know that? Maybe your past experiences and circumstances, things over which you had no control, compelled you to make that post and you maintain the illusion of control in the matter since it is so beneficial to humanity.

>>39211958
Seeing this thread was outside your control.

>>39211983
This fucking shit goes on and on in my head all the fucking time
REEEEEE

>>39212060
If it helps any, just realize you have no control over your ruminating if you have no control over anything.

>>39211781
Yes, but so does predestination.

>>39211983
this

How the fuck is ending up in fucking /r9k/ not conditioned?

No one would want this life.

>>39212146
>How the fuck is ending up in fucking /r9k/ not conditioned?
Very true, I certainly believe that people have free will, but a lot of the choices people make are based on their past experiences and childhood experiences, and traumas they couldn't control.
Technically they still have free-will, because they make concious decisions, but yes you are correct a lot of pre-conditioning.

>>39211803
Longer answer: your choices or preferences are shaped and conditioned. So whereas you have some degree of CHOICE, you still have no free will. Choice and free will are not the same, because choice means *choice among a predetermined set of options*

>>39212186
Thanks for the (You) :') origunelo

>>39211781
No. For will to be FREE, it would have to be completely unbound by anything in existence and thus it could not exist.
"Free will" is just actions from reactions, determined by your nature and experiences as a human.

Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills.
- Arthur Schopenhauer

>>39211781
I'm glad to see that most of /r9k/ agrees with me (not OP) on the no

>>39212186
no you don't
(You) don't even exist (at least in this limited human form)
you are an emergent consciousness from a pattern of energy

>>39213095

Your post is proof that not only do you exist, but you're a self absorbed faggot.

No but you are too stupid being to comprehend it so it does not matter.

>>39211781
Yes, but your will itself is predetermined by the state of the universe lol

Theoretically, it doesn't exist since, ultimately, we all die and that is unchangeable. However, human beings have a great deal of power and influence when it comes to the path they choose in life. There is the fact that, in the end, existence goes on and we control nothing about what is gonna happen tommorow, but probabilities still exist and we can safely take decisions according to the odds and safely predict an outcome, that is about as much power of influence and freedom of choice we have.

Still, I don't like it when people use the excuse that free will doesn't exist to cope with why they gave up on themselves. Fre will might be an illusion, but you are still responsible for the vast majority of circumstances you put yourself into when it comes to life and to ignore them based on the absence of free will is to ignore the fact that there are tons of factors that we can change and influence in our existence.

So, to an extent, we have a liberty to choose where we end up.

To me, existence has to be a fine balance between letting go of control and desire to let the current of life guide us towards the unknown and actually putting some work in there to steer yoyr own existence where you want it to go. Kind of guiding a boat through a storm. You may not be able to fight a storm, but a strike of a paddle here and there might make the difference between crashing on the rocks and making it to the shores.

>>39213095
None of you faggots exist save for as my subjective experience of text on this screen.
Care to prove me wrong.

>>39211815
Free will means you choose to be depressed every single time you're depressed and anything you do to try and fix it is in vain. Determinism means that if you fix it it'll stay fixed in all likelihood.

>>39213114
Probably

>>39213158
I agree 100%

Probably not but enjoy indulging in the likely delusion.

>>39213200

You are a retardbot.

this topic is too deep for you sperg lords.
there is free will and you losers choose to be tards.

>>39213276
If the will is affected by physical states of mind like depression then it's not free. If it is free then you're choosing to act out the symptoms of a depressed person.

>>39213153
How is what you're defining not free will?

>>39212428
>For will to be FREE, it would have to be completely unbound by anything in existence
This is a very simplistic view of free will. Partial free will can exist. This is encapsulated by the phrase "We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand."

>>39213406
>just how we play the hand
And that's fucking wrong. The way you will to play out that hand is completely out of your control. What exactly you want out of the game, how you decide things, what you base your decisions on, none of these things are under your control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5_bHwaUBM

>>39213424
Well, we can't prove it either way. If there really is no free will, we're both bound to type these responses to each other anyway. It's a little pointless.

>>39213478
>Well, we can't prove it either way.
True. Metaphysical solipsism's as far as I can know.
>we're both bound to type these responses to each other anyway
Well, yes.

>>39213371
That's a good point. Before the discussion can progress, we need to define what we mean by 'free will' anyway

buddhists say the only true act of free will is to do nothing

>>39213631
>do something
>free will

>>39213371

In taoism, it is stated that life is nothing but a succession of circumstances most of which you can neither control nor predict and that this attachment to control and security is the source of our anxiety. In life there are the things we cannot control and our ability to make decisions according to odds and probabilities. We choose and decide according to the most favorable odds and throw a dice, but, ultimately, we hardly control any outcome.

how hard do you have to fall for the philosophy meme that you're debating this constantly in your head?

philosophy has it's good points and all but arguing over something that can't be proven or disproved by regurgitating stupid religions and shit is just mental masturbation

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>>39213849
>how hard do you have to fall for the philosophy meme that you're debating this constantly in your head?
It comes naturally to you if you aren't a brainlet. No need to fall for memes.

it depends what your definition of free will is, but either way it doesn't really matter. the illusion of free will exists which i feel is much more relevant

>>39214085
this pretty well sums it up desu

>>39213705
>We choose and decide according to the most favorable odds and throw a dice
This is the part where you lose me, are you saying I ate soup yesterday because of the assumption that it was likely to satiate me or did a metaphorical roll of the dice at least partially decide that I was to want to eat soup more than I was to want to chop my balls off, blend em and drink it?

>>39213870
Princess is so cute though it's not like I have a choice in thinking this way.

>>39214369

I'm speaking of free will on a grander scale or the way people in general define free will. For example. The president may bless free will, stating that, thanks to tge ability to choose where you can go in life, through sweat and blood he achieved this prestigious position, but this is ignoring many factors he had no control over.

I don't think I'm explaining myself well enough. Most people'when it comes to free will, see it in the vain of "You make your own luck." but it's not 100% true. There is some freedom of choice, but there is also luck. The fact that no matter how hard you work, tommorow might decide that you fail. In this concept, free will is irrelevant, because the liberty to choose does not always influence the result.

It's kind of a nature vs nurture thing. Let's say you have two people. One proudly declares free will exists and that you vhoose whether to be evil or good. The other declare free will is a lie and you are either fated to be evil or good. Who is right? In my opinion, in a sense, nobody is wrong, but nobody is right. One has lived a life of which the circumstances have lead him to become one or the other, pushing him to believe in fate while the other realises that regardless of circumstances, the choice is always yours. One ignores the fact that surrounding factors do influence your choice, the other ignores that the decision is, ultimately, up to you.

So whether free will exist or not becomes irrelevant. Existence is what it is and it's up to how you define free will.

Why does it matter ? If it does , why do you care. If it doesn't, why do you care ? Nothing will change

>>39214687
It may not seem obvious but it can affect what you want to do in the future and how you reflect on the past. As well as how you perceive yourself.

>>39211781
Not really, since you base your decisions on past outcomes, so you're always limited and it's never fully up to you.

There is a gradient of strong wills and weak wills. Having a weak will and blaming it on the fact that there is no free will is an excuse for being weak willed.

Some people can get out of bed no problem in the morning, others can barely bring themselves to do it.

>>39212187
>So whereas you have some degree of CHOICE,
You literally don't.
Either the brain can be completely explained through classical physics - meaning that there is only one possible outcome for any given condition - or it has some quantum mechanical element.
Even if it isn't classical, you'd still need some mechanism for controlling the quantum probabilities for it to be called choice.

Given what we know of physics, Free Will, Agency, or Choice can not exist.
Your choices are either pseudo-random or deterministic, there is no way for them to be directed.