Philosophy General

bump, please ponder with me anons.

>>39205858
Conflict yes but not necessarily violence. Nature is dialectical in that regard so it's impossible to eliminate conflict altogether anyhow.

Heres me:
Nihilism
2
a : a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility

rtyuretyuryuiyu ityuityuiyu ityui tyuituyitru

>hegel in theory
>schopenhauer in practice
should I kill myself lads

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>>39206169
Embrace the positive qualities found in the initial act of rebellion my boy. Nihilism is what's wrong with the world

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>>39205858
Anyone else here Christian Existentialist/Absurdist?

>had philosophy introduced to me in deeply personal ways in my own personal life

>never read any philosophy books

>become failed normie shithead spewing half cocked memes

meant to be

>>39206254
No, now all you do is move on to the more matured existentialists.

>>39206267
Not him and not a nihilist but
>positive qualities
Define these

I expect this thread to be filled with stirner meme spouters very soon

>>39206350
I wouldn't be surprised, hate that fucking cancerous meme ideology.

>>39206267
Is it really? or is destruction of the current way of life the solution?

I fully believe that the current system is corrupt to the core, with our technology we should be able to do anything, go anywhere, and see anything, but instead we're fed consumerism and identity politics and told to live a life of cyclical narcissism, which I believe is the true problem of the world. Everyone lives to gather praise from each other on social medias, masturbating each others egos to see who can fabricate the better lie in their life, it's cancer.

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>>39206350
if you want it so much just ask anon

>>39206106
But wouldn't you agree that violence is generally a more "intense" form of conflict and therefore makes for better subject matter?

>>39206267
I don't come across many actual nihilists, in fact I'd say I come across more people who care too much about what others do.

>>39205858
I suggest you read instead of making a thread about it m8.

>>39206365
You need to get off the internet m8. Get some vitamin d

>>39206378
When it is supported. Unsupported conflict is stupid, just as unsupported violence in storytelling is stupid.

Because they each require different support and justification, I consider them different things.

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>>39206253
>retyuryuiyu ityuityuiyu ityui tyuituyitru
What philosophy is this?

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>>39206254
theoretically yes, but in practice you won't

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>>39206329
Rebellion, while appearing individualistic, is fundamentally an affirmation of human dignity. The rebel asserts not only his own dignity, but the dignity of mankind as a whole when he says "this far and no further."
>>39206365
It's very much true that the system is corrupt but when rebellion leads to murder it becomes self-contradictory. Both Fascism and Stalinism had a nihilist outlook which was completely at odd with creating a better society.

>>39206416
Good point, but is there really such a thing as unsupported conflict? I would say every violence/conflict has some reason for it, even if that reason is just an urge to destroy.

>>39206448
I'm >>39206365
I have considered what you're suggesting, and I'm a hypocrite because I also consider myself a christian and that makes a paradox, but the truth is I have yet to find meaning and purpose in my life or anyone else's for that matter. I'm not unlike a lost dog I admit. I am torn between two ends of a spectrum that shouldn't be compatible but there it is, sometimes I feel like Diogenes, minus the xtian part.

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Utopias(places with zero crime, violence, or corruption) would be hell on earth.
Prove me wrong

>>39206415
You're probably right friend but I work in the sun. Everyday I wake up and think, well I can't possibly witness anything more stupid than I saw yesterday and somehow the human race finds a way.

>>39206462
Story's and games have characters literaly killing each other all the time over something like an insult.
Pretty much anything can be used to justify a (minor) conflict, but it's absurd to have a character die over an insult. It's a cheap tactic for an author to segway into violence for the purpose of characterization when they are too lazy to do so properly.
Major (nonviolent) conflict also requires better support to be justified.

>>39206563
But the willingness to kill over an insult always has greater meaning behind it: it shows the consequences of excessive pride, how society drives us to prove ourselves, our own lashing out to protect our self-image.

>>39206527
"when the machine can calculate all human actions, and human reality is reduced to charts and tables, and finally the crystal palace could come up; still a man would rise up and say smash the machine! if only my thoughts could be my own I'll leave absolute comfort behind"
approximated quote from "notes from underground" by Dostoyevsky

>>39206604
Not to go off on a tangent but, remember that time when those two countries went to war over a soccer match and 6,000 people died in the ~100 hour conflict? Human pride at it's best I'd say.

>>39206417
I'd say about 3 philosphies of finnegans wake

>>39206645
I'd say it was an event that showed the absurdity of our world and the world and that if it hadn't occurred we would lose a precious occurance to think about

>>39205858
What are your thoughts on empiricism vs rationalism? What are your thoughts on truth in general?

>>39206522
We all struggle with trying to find meaning in seemingly meaningless universe. That's the very essence of the absurd. I've felt the same way as you.

>>39206604
Sure, it could possible, if such a trait was already established it would even make sense.
Ultimately though, as per the op, we are talking about its applicability and usefulness in culture/created content.
If it is used without being supported (the trait is not already established) it is not believable.
If it is used when the trait is already established, it is not necessary.

It's too extreme in that context to be useful unless there is a lot of other stuff there to utilize and support it. Sometimes it can work, usually such a conflict is unjustified.

>>39206688
I favor empiricism, it is only by observing and combining ideas that children learn so I can't really believe in the idea that our knowledge is innate.

>>39206795
How can you establish such a extreme trait with any real impact without showing it through conflict or violence? Or maybe I', just misunderstanding your post?

>>39206908
My point was never that conflict was not necessary. You said that "violence is just a more intense form of conflict" and thus makes for better storytelling.

My point is that violence is a separate thing from conflict entirely. It has additional requirements that may or may not fit a particular story.

Violence is the square inside of the rectangle of conflict. While there are many times a square is useful, sometimes all you need is a rectangle. There are even many situations in which a rectangle is more suited then a square.

>>39207027
Ah I see what you mean, and I guess I'd have to agree, if every conflict was violent then violence would quickly lose its meaning/

>>39207066
I have to say, this was the most polite and productive conversation I've ever had on 4 chan. Thanks for that. :)

get in here and debate anons

>>39207098
Well if all posts are shitposts then shitposting loses its meaning.

>>39207121
Do you guys every think you can really understand another person? Also secondary question: Do people ever show their true selves to others? Or can someone's true self only be observed when they think they are alone?

>>39207121
Heh. That was clever. Have one last (you).
I'm out for the night. Good luck robots!

>>39206868
How do you feel about the problem that perception is a rich thing, that the world presents itself as full of meaning prior to empirical analysis? That is, for example, how do you feel about the fact that the world seems to be populated by objects that have whole lives about them (properties, histories, intention), which serves as the foundation for empiricism, and is therefore immune to empiricism?

>>39207306
I was thinking that empiricism and rationalism dealt with knowledge, not the truth of things. So while the truth may be that these objects have properties, histories and intentions the knowledge of these don't exist until they are perceived.

>>39207340
Knowledge and truth are, in this case, effectively interchangeable. While one can hold out that knowledge can be false, that's not what people are really after when they talk about epistemology. So then the problem is, the idea that the world contains objects is, itself, a huge imposition, a sort of perceptual conceit, and if one takes that seriously, then all of empiricism is called into question.
I'm not the person you were originally responding to, by the way: I personally think both empiricism and rationalism are off on the wrong track, and implying those are your two choices for philosophy of knowledge is immensely harmful.

>>39207413
I have to admit that I'm kinda new to the whole philosophy deal and initially made this thread with the intention of hearing about different schools of thought that I could then do further research on.

>>39205858
Those who worry about others too much detract from their own quality of life.

>>39207498
Agree. the only trouble is finding where the too much line occurs.

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>>39205858
Fuck you and everyone else who thinks that horrible atrocities are better than being bored. Schopenhauer didn't place art above all else for the common man because art is inherently good. He did it because it's the only thing that can distract us from doing bullshit in real life. I'm sure he'd be fine with a world without art if there was no will to life driving us to fuck and kill. You don't deserve to use that Schopenhauer Wojak.

>>39207618
But anon besides the fact without conflict our lives are boring and lose meaning, how do you expect people to be happy without a negative to compare it to?

>>39207674
Happiness isn't important.

>>39207686
What do you live for then?

>>39207693
>What do you live for then?
Contentment.

>>39205858

As all great art is made from suffering, so are we.

>>39207712
Wouldn't you say that being content is what makes you happy? Also how can you feel content until you have felt discontent?

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>>39206527
a really place of utopia would be comprised of supermen who are not focused on earthly matters but are instead in the divine realm of eternity

very much the opposite of hell ... but anything less than that isnt really an utopia

>>39207742
Most of the time when people talk about happiness, they're referring to joy. Contentment does not make me joyful. It's merely the lack of negative emotions. Contentment itself isn't important either. If the elimination of discontentment also eliminated contentment, that would be fine.

>>39207762
Please define the divine realm of eternity.

>>39207774
I guess I've never thought as contentment that way, every time I thought I was feeling content I always wanted to smile.

>>39207796
You can be content while simultaneously joyful. Most people do tend to link the two because the void of contentment allows joy to exist, when it cannot in many other emotional environments.

>>39207838
I just quick looked up the definition of content and it was defined as: in a state of peaceful happiness. So I'm not sure that being content isn't just a subset of being happy.

>>39207861
Google's definition is wrong because people often think of being joyful while content. People like to put joy wherever they can. As a void, contentment is very malleable, so obviously people think of being happy when they're content.

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>>39207780
where the supernatural is seen as an actual reality and God is feared, people dont give a shit about humanism but instead they make their plane of existence one with the above and they go higher and higher, broadening their consciousness as they go up forever and become a god race

>>39205858
violence isnt a good thing, it's just part of the design of the Creator, and I wonder why.

>>39207892
Just checked the oxford's definition and Merriam Websters and both had happiness or satisfied(which was defined as making happy) in their definition.

>>39207925
I think the lines getting cross is actually the definition of happiness itself. There are many kinds of happiness, but the word is so often used to refer to joy that the other forms are not often thought of. If you have a better word for a lack of negative emotions I'm all ears. I didn't mean to start a discussion on definitions of words used to describe emotions.

>>39207912
While I can't say I believe violence on its own I do believe it can lead to good things.

>>39207971
of course. it's just violence on its own without purpose isnt a ''good thing''. but it's a necessity almost all the time.

>>39207964
Apathy perhaps?

>>39208004
Apathy is also a lack of positive emotions.

>>39207995
I would agree that it is necessary.

>>39208013
Yeah, if there are positive emotions mixed with a lack of negative emotions wouldn't happy or content work?

>>39208036
It's neither apathy nor contentment. As the former completely dispels all positive emotions and the latter apparently is inherently positive in and of itself. At best one could describe it as naturally swinging back and forth between the two?

>>39208067
I guess when I have both good and bad things happening equally in my life I do seesaw between being happy and sad so maybe melancholia or bittersweet could work?

>>39208100
No, I guess apathy is closer. It is apathy in itself, but it doesn't disallow for positive emotions. Like void that only lets good things in, but doesn't necessarily need to have them. Whatever I'm trying to describe doesn't matter, this is just one long divergence from my original point.

>>39206292
Yep... feels confusingly/purposeful man

Thanks for philosophizing with me tonight anons, look forward to another philosophy general next Sunday night.

>>39205858
Antinatalism all the way (non)baby!

>>39205858
violence yes, because its human nature and if we ignore it we get a 21c world in which everyone is sterile and enslaved by a few big organization and wars are huge and every one of them threatens to destroy humanity

we need is the 6c world where conflicts are every day and endless, but they are much smaller and dont hurt anybody specially, people respect and appreciate life and good simple things which they dont today

i dont read much philosophy, but i have a hard on for neoplatonism and junger

What do you guys think happens to consciousness after you die?

>>39209807
I believe there is a loving God. I don't think it's the Christian God, Yahwe. I don't believe in an eternal Hell but believe in temporary punishment for wrongdoing. Don't think God punishes gays for having sex or ever okay'd slavery. I see contradictions in the Bible and evil in it.

I think we continue on until we're developed enough and good enough to chill with God or something. Just a theory though, never met God and he never told me what happens after life.

I'm trying to be a kind person, non judgmental, forgiving, merciful. I'm lazy though, need to work on working hard with the time God gave me. Hopefully I get a good afterlife.

I don't want to have to spend another life on earth. I've disliked this one greatly. Too much pain and evil.

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>>39207104
All of you are uneducated pseudo-intellectuals who can't into discourse

Have a bump though

Sincerely, Philosophy upperclassman

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This right here is what philosophy should be

>Advice on how to make yourself a better person through self discipline
>How to live a better and just life
>Doesn't concern itself on trying to answer autistic metaphysical questions

This should be required reading for all robots

>>39209846
>I don't believe in an eternal Hell but believe in temporary punishment for wrongdoing
>I don't want to have to spend another life on earth. I've disliked this one greatly. Too much pain and evil.
Welcome to hell, please enjoy your stay.

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>>39209858
>All of you are uneducated pseudo-intellectuals who can't into discourse

>>39209939
you can't post pictures of yourself here, newfag
>>>/soc/
>>>/lit/
>>>/s4s/

>>39209122
dubs confirm for ultimate philosophical truth

Serious question: Why should I not commit suicide? Assume no one else on the planet cares about me (would prefer non-theistic arguments).

>>39210014
The ultimate freedom to commit suicide is what made me realize I really didn't need to kill myself. That and I see life and death as being two sides of the same coin.

>>39206292
Fuck off oskar

>>39207674
>how do you expect people to be happy without a negative to compare it to?

you do realize that this is an idiot normie thought that has been disproven by philosophers time and time again