ROBOT LEFTIST GENERAL /RLG/

>>38912198
/lit/ is pretty leftist.

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>>38912198
It's also a bastion of stupidity so.....yep , makes sense.

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>>38912212
True, should of thought about that. But sights are set on /R9K/ becoming the OFFICIAL communist board.

(GOOD MARX WATCH)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F385rnD1UNo [Embed]

(GOOD MARX BOOKS TO READ FOR NEWBIES)
>An_Introduction_to_Marxist_Economic_Theory_-_Mandel.pdf

>Capital_-_A_Critique_of_Political_Economy_-_Marx.pdf

>robot
>even caring about politicucks
Pick one shill, also have a sage

>>38912198
>/r9k/ is the last leftist/communist stronghold in 4chan.
Not surprising since loser unable to compete gets drawn to Marxism

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>hurrf durf freedom bad

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too afraid to talk to /pol/?

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I honestly wonder when you people will give this idea up

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>>38912969
>tfw capitalism has failed hundreds of more times then communism

hehe capitalist swine getting ragie *spit*

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>>38912981
>>tfw capitalism has failed hundreds of more times then communism
It has? Marx predicted it's collapse yet every time there's a recession or depression it bounces back.
Marx was wrong, time to come to terms with that.

Honestly I don't mind communism as an utopian idea but it is UTOPIAN. It will never work for humanity because it goes against our most basic instincts and thus always leads to misery.
Venezuela is it's latest victim

>>38912198
is it true that under communism we'll all get a curvy wife, a-asking for a friend

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Ty based Nordic model and social democracy. Gets you all the great leftist things without the totalitarianism. We're so good that BOTH yanks AND soviets funded us during the Cold War.

also sage and hide for /pol/ shit

>>38912937
If I'm allowed to bring in any melee combat weapon I could probably take a couple dozen of these monstrosities in the pic posted, before their bites and scratches bring me down

>>38913106
>He doesn't worship Celestia and Luna
What a heretic.

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why is there never food in the fridge

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Who /ultra/ here?

>>38912198
shouldn't politics belong on /pol/?

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>>38912198
>be me 2 days ago
>made this thread >>38859059
>scrolling /r9k/ today
>see a thread with the first sentence almost identical to mine (leftist/communist stronghold)
glad to see someone is carrying the torch

>>38912981
At least when capitalism fails it doesn't end with tens of millions of people executed or starved to death, without a place to go for a better life (because the government lock up/kill everyone who dares to leave the country).
Also, if everyone were to use the commies logic of " but it wasn't real x", why not give another shot at fascism. I mean even if it failed in the end, it was almost a success and it was tried only once. So i am pretty sure a second or even third shot might bring us the glorious nazi utopia... right?
And one more thing. Why the hell are the commies always comparing communism with capitalism when the second one is just an economic system and can be combined with many political ones? Communism comes with both a political and economic side and you have to take the whole package or nothing.

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I said it before and i will say it again. The only thing robots and commie scum have in common is a distaste for work. Otherwise you fags need to go back to leftypol.

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>>38912198
>Daily reminder that /r9k/ is the last leftist/communist stronghold in 4chan
>r9k
>stronghold

Here's what you gotta do, champ. You walk right in there, stand straight, maintain eye contact and ask to speak to the Great Leader. Then give him a firm handshake and tell him you want that loaf of bread.

>>38913106
Social Democracy coming to an end. All across Europe, social safety nets are being slashed and privatization is creeping in.

>>38913493
Economic system always gives rise to a certain kind of politics. Capitalism leads to corporatism, that is why nowadays most of politicians are bought.

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>>38913493
>implying holodomor was real and not a western psyop

hahahaa what a sheep!

Ice pick for you!

>>38913502
>distaste for work
One of the slogans of socialism is "He who does not work shall not eat"

>>38912198
Communism is shit.
National-Bolshevism and Strasserism are better.
Read "The fourth Political Theory" by Alexander Dugin and watch this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9kNQ36m7-M

>>38913603
Actually privatizations only happen in countries with lower income, generally, and social security nets aren't being slashed, just people don't like freeloaders not doing any work and getting money

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>>38913709
>like who i like!
>because i like them!

egotistical retard, no one cares about your shitty opinion
gulag for you!

>>38913038
Under capitalism there's an economic crisis every ten years or so, but apparently it's okay because we survive it every time. How do we bounce back from depression? By implementing social programs so people can have enough money to buy things and start the economy again. How many economic crises there were during socialism? None. Because you can avoid that with planning, a fact that every capitalist understands when he runs his company by central planning.

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REMEMBER WHO WON THE WAR.

>>38913493
>At least when capitalism fails it doesn't end with tens of millions of people executed or starved to death
Really? How many miners in Africa died because of poor working conditions, how many people in Asia starve because they are paid next to nothing, how many homeless people freeze to death in the streets? Under socialism, everyone had a place to live, everyone had something to eat and everyone had a job.

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>>38913730
Fuck you

I used to be a communist like you, but as I learned more about it, I realized that the best communists systems were based on both Nationalist and Socialist ethos.

And the more time passes, the more people become nationalists in a counter-reaction against globalism. Your Internationalism ideology is crap and people know it.

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>>38913861
>please i beg you like what i like because i like it
>dude i used to be just like you please man listen to my egotistical capitalist bullshit
>please man i swear stockholm syndrome isn't that bad
>dude i fugging swear you'll learn to love porkie

>>38913068
Everyone gets one at their local bureau for family matters. You have to wait in a line for a bit, but it's definitely worth it.

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>Tfw the radical left belive that National bolshevism and strasserism is a capitalist conspiracy to draw away lefties from thr radical left and towards the JQ and racial ideas.
>Tfw the radical right believe that national bolshevism and strasserism is a jewish conspiracy to draw nationalists away from the radical right and towards ideas of equality and wealth disrbution.

But surely their is one thing we can all agree on, that this radical centerist conspiracy is damaging for both of our movements, and something needs to be done to prevent moderates in our movements from falling for a jewish capitalist meme.

>>38913766
>How many economic crises there were during socialism? None
Sorry for the late response but Are you trolling me? There has been several economic collapses due to Marxism and they often lead to starvation and mass suffering way more than any capitalistic nation. Again look at Venezuela, the nation with the most oil reserves in the world now has a population that's starving

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>>38913687
>>38913730
these memes are so weak
every time it's the same imitative, low-effort, aesthetically ill-informed, weird lowres color transitions, fellow kids-esque, "pokemon GO to the gulag" dollar store memes

man strives for beauty and goodness not concrete apartment blocks with over-saturated one color flags it's so sickening anon I don't know how to explain this to you people
you are ugly on the outside and inside there is nothing to gain from joining your side
yes it sucks for you but I don't know how to help you either

you don't even take the time to do your recruitment memes properly what can I expect from this work ethic down the line?
please just go

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>>38912198
Have a Ceacescu bump.

>>38913861
Internationalism is not the same as multiculturalism. Communists advocate internationalism, which is peaceful cooperation between nations, while also acknowledging the importance of national identity and of maintaining cultural and historical legacies of nations. Multiculturalism is not communist.

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>>38912911
Socialism is the pro-freedom choice actually as it protects you from being lynched or enslaved by Fascists.

>>38913884
If I taken the time to respond to this thread its because I still have empathy for communists, but I realized I was wrong.

You're worse than corporatecucked libertarians.
Stay in your echo chamber were every people not following your ideology is sucking capitalist cock.

Your shitty ideology will fall, and you will fall with it.

Regarding any arguments against capitalism pertaining to slavery in africa; capitalism=/=slavery. That shit is caused by imperialism and bigotry, which are incompatible with true free market capitalism. Communism is essentially cultural and humanist cannibalism, everything is consumed and nothing new is produced, causing the need for expansion. This need leads to slavery, look at all the former satellite states added after WW2, or the african or middle eastern interests.

>>38913493
Thousands are enslaved and starved by capitalists everyday in Africa and Asia and also nations like South Korea make it illegal to speak highly or move to communist ones like North Korea so you have no idea what you're talking about.

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>>38914011
Nazis are retards in the fact that they think the capitalist oppressors are only the jews.

I will now post a picture that is obviously satire, showing how any race of people can be made out to be like the jews in modern nazi circle-jerk culture.

If anything, the Nazis should drop the whole jew thing and realize capitalist elites are the ones they should worry about, not one race of people.

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>>38914011
Nazis are retards in the fact that they think the capitalist oppressors are only the jews.

I will now post a picture that is obviously satire, showing how any race of people can be made out to be like the jews in modern nazi circle-jerk culture.

If anything, the Nazis should drop the whole jew thing and realize capitalist elites are the ones they should worry about, not one race of people.

(picture two)

>>38912198
DAILY REMINDER THAT COMMUNISTS AREN'T PEOPLE

>>38914018
>pro freedom
Except for property rights, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, the right to bare arms, and the freedom to do literally anything without the permission of one extremely authoritarian leader.

>>38913942
Venezuela is in trouble exactly because of their overreliance on oil, not because of socialist economy. When the prices of oil fall, entire economy is in trouble. It would be the same if it were capitalist.

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Nazis are retards in the fact that they think the capitalist oppressors are only the jews.

I will now post a picture that is obviously satire, showing how any race of people can be made out to be like the jews in modern nazi circle-jerk culture.

If anything, the Nazis should drop the whole jew thing and realize capitalist elites are the ones they should worry about, not one race of people.

(picture three)

>>38914087
You have all of those in Socialism actually. In fact property was protected by the 1936 Soviet constitution. The only public control is of the means of production. Also freedom of religion and press is guaranteed in the North Korean constitution for example.

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capitalism always fails

>>38913884
Commies are not the ones to laugh about stockholm syndrome considering the history of communism and how much you still love it.
>egotistical capitalist bullshit
Who is more egotistical? The dick that wants more for himself or the asshole that wants to drag to whole country with him just because he wants another shot at a political system that failed too damn many times?

>>38914057 The "capitalism" you are railing against is, in actuality, corporatism, wherein a few large groups in kahoots with gov'ts make their own rules. This includes slavery, yes, but corporatism is only one step above communism on the bullshit scale anyway. The difference is the communism is honest about its shit.

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>>38913884
You shouldn't turn away NazBols, Strasserists or Nazis. Internationalism doesn't have to be immediate. It can be worked at after years of nationalism.

>>38914087
You have freedom of speech and expression under socialism, but you can't spread hateful ideologies like nazism. If you are complaining about the freedom to own property, that's the same as complaining about the freedom to own slaves.

>>38914155
Capitalism naturally and inevitably leads to corporatism. In capitalism, money is power and the more money you have the easier it is to get more.

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>>38914076
Don't be so desperate

>>38914088
Actually, socialism caused problem in Venezuela, but even if it had stayed in a liberalism system, these problem would have appeared. There is also the fact that the American Empire don't like rebellious nations.

>>38913884
Ok, I may have been a bit harsh in saying that Communism is shit, because that's my opinion (even if I like its ideals), but I think we can all agree Trotskysm is shit and was made to destabilize Stalinist regimes.

>>38914011
That's exactly what Strasserism advocate for.

>>38914063
>>38914071
>>38914107
There is actually proofs that the jews aren't as innocents as the medias try to make us believe, however I don't believe the jews, at least the poor working class, deserved the Holocaust.

>>38913997
Everyone have his own definition of it, yours is different from what you mostly ear. But I agree on the difference between Stalinism Internationalism and Trotskysm Internationalism.

>>38914087
>The right to bear arms

Why do people keep sharing this Muricuck meme """right"""?

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>>38914051
"Regarding any arguments against capitalism pertaining to slavery in africa; capitalism=/=slavery. That shit is caused by imperialism and bigotry, which are incompatible with true free market capitalism."

Ay yo hol up, so that means in a "free market" I cant have black child slaves held against their will to work in my factory for free?
But surley that defeats the idea of "true free market capitalism", as it isnt free but controled by laws preventing me from having black child slaves, thus making it a controled economy not a "true free market."
And some lolbertarians actully belive this and there I was thinking most were adept in basic ecnomics, and familar with the works of Ayn Rand, Murry Rothbard and Hans Herman Hoppe.

>>38914199
>you just can't spread hateful ideologies like Nazism

And every other ideology that's deemed "hatful" by whatever socialist that wins the office

>>38914337
No, freedom of speech is protected. You're just paranoid.

>>38914051
Under capitalism, capitalists want to pay their workers as little as possible and give them as few benefits as possible. Since capitalists have the money, and therefore power, and they also make the decisions in a corporation, they are able to push the entire system in that direction. Capitalism is not slavery but it leads to conditions that are pretty close to it. The most imperialist country currently is capitalist USA, because capitalism prospers by exploiting other countries' natural resources. Communism on the other hand, strives for self-reliance and local production of goods, which is hard to do under capitalism if you have to compete with Asian workers who out of their desperation are willing to work for next to nothing.

>>38914250 Corporatism is caused by gov't subventions and the "too big to fail" mentality, and in a truely free market the gov't is unable to stick their fingers in anything. Keep gov't small, and the market free and the money moving, and it will not lead to corporatism. Most importantly is self-ownership, the knowledge of your own rights and liberties and where these end. The free mind is like cancer to a socialist society. Sure you're free to say and think and publish whatever you want, as long as it conforms to the "correct" thoughts, words and works.

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>>38914360
You're deluding yourself if you thing giving license to suppress "harmful" ideologies won't be abused. Once you delegate power hierarchy and cronyism inevitably form.

>>38914299 The free market is just that, a free market. If someone wants to self themselves into slavery they should be free to do that, as long as it only is themselves. In the free market you, and only, decide what you do with yourself and no one else. Want to work for room and board? Fine. Want a chance at a career? Sure. The choice belongs to the individual. Socialism prevents that, causing the individual to be buried in debts they cannot repay in order to keep them docile. If your working conditions suck do something about it.

>>38914380
Government often interferes to prevent monopolies from creating. In a free market free from any interference, if there is a big company, what would stop it from dominating and eliminating all small starting competitors? Nothing. In capitalism, money is power. If you have enough money you can do anything, and that's called corporatism.

>>38914465
>causing the individual to be buried in debts they cannot repay in order to keep them docile.
he says with a straight face while advocating slavery for those with nothing.

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>>38914063
>"Nazis are retards in the fact that they think the capitalist oppressors are only the jews."
>You are so ignorant and have obviously never picked up a national socalist economics book, or are ethier being paid to shill by the (((ADL))).

Let me give you a lesson of national socalism's second most important policy.
National socalists dont just simply want to kick the jews out of power in postions of banking and finance, because they know in doing so would only allow other Germans to exploit germans through usury by simply stepping into the jews shoes.
National socalists want to destory the sytem of wealth through intrest thraldom thus preventing Germans being exploited in the future by other lazy and greedy German capitalists in socitey.

>>38914360
Aw fack off with that.Considering the recent events with the so called ANTIFA, basically a nazi/fash can be whatever person that goes against the ideology. When it's so damn easy to conveniently redefine words, especially if it's a totalitarian state (which communism usually leads to), are you telling me that laws against "hate speech" or "fascism" won't be twisted and ambiguous enough to be exploited for political or personal interests? It happened before in communist countries where individuals would be labeled as "enemy of the people" for vague reasons and then sent to gulag or simply executed.

>>38914465
There is modern slavery going on right now, but hardly any of the slaves decided to become a slave. How do you prevent that if it's not illegal to be a slave?

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FEED ME COMMUNISTS

>>38914545 You always have something, and that is your own free will. Whats stopping you from growing your own food, for example? If you want something figure out how to obtain it. Supply and demand is everything, and when one group (big gov't or supercorp) controls the supply, you no longer have a choice in your own life. Everything is dictated for you. In a free market, everything is a choice, and these are with full knowledge of what you are doing.

>>38914608 They are slaves because of big gov't or supercorp, not free capitalism.

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Daily reminder that holodomor never happened.

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EVERY RIDE IS FREE COMRADES

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ENOUGH ROOM FOR FIVE PEOPLE
AND ONE SOLDIER

>>38914088
>Venezuela is in trouble exactly because of their overreliance on oil
not because of socialism and central planning. had the privatised the oil industry it would have been modern like Norways and be able to keep up with falling oil prices aswell as having a divesified economy. Instead they're stuck in the 1970's in terms of extraction technology and wasted all that money on gibs.
thus the country is now collapsinglike all socialist states

>>38914648
>Whats stopping you from growing your own food, for example?
That all of the land is owned by supercorp.

>>38914648
>>38914672
That's the point, under capitalism there's nothing preventing one or several supercorps to be created.

>>38914679
Helicopter fuel is expensive man. Have you seen the number of commies lately? How are going to pay for all of that?

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EXCITEMENT GUARANTEED
OR YOUR MONEY BACK

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>>38914753
VOLUNTARY DONATIONS!

>>38914750 But what if you simply told the supercorp to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and do it anyway? Arguments like this is are faux-pas, since there is nothing stopping it in the first place.

>>38914607
Anti-fa aren't even communists. They supported Hillary Clinton and other fascist politicians.

>>38914787
>But what if you simply told the supercorp to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and do it anyway?
That would be a true socialist act.

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>the best system

>>38914728
Yeah no.

It's not socialist and was never socialist. Fun fact: there have been no socialist states in history.

Or do you throw your toys out the pram when someone points out democracy doesn't work because the democratic Republic of Congo is a shit hole that even colonel kurtz wouldn't want to visit.

Tosser.

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>>38914465
You are now advocating for "ethical free market capitalsm", not "true free market capitalsm" as you originally did."
In the former yes people would not be inslaved due to NAP violations against personal freedom and property rights.

But in "true free market capitalism" those rights and liberties mean nothing, as there are no laws or regualtions in a market and as a result enslavent would be perfectly fine.

You would be suprised how much diffrence the word "true" makes.

>>38914812 Nope, it would be a true ancap act, since socialism is all about pooling power and resources inte the same hands, i.e the supercorp. Claiming socialism is anti-establishment like saying frostbite is a good exfoliant.

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EXPRESS LINES AVAILABLE
FOR THE MOST EQUAL COMRADES

>>38912198

> /r9k/ is the last leftist/communist stronghold in 4chan

> not /lit/

Dunno brah

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>>38914829
>not muh socialism!

>>38914728
>not because of socialism and central planning. had the privatised the oil industry it would have been modern like Norways

Norway's government publicly owns most of its oil companies

>>38914818
Humans are affected by environment. In capitalism, where greed is worshiped, of course people will be more drawn towards selfishness. In other settings, this will be different.

>>38914860 Freedom=ethics. Even though individualism is the name of the game people will still talk, and thieves and other miscreants will be shunned or, if violent, even killed simply because people will protect what they own.

>>38914360
>Freedom of speech
>"""Hate""" speech banned

No. Get this through your head: freedom of speech means people are allowed to say whatever they want without consequence from the government. Calling something hate speech is an extremely easy way to censor whatever the authoritarian in power want to censor.

Deal with it.

>>38914862
Violating property rights is an ancap act?

>>38914906
Fascists get beaten and killed by mobs frequently but under actual socialist law their rights are protected. Also hate speech isn't legal in the US.

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NAP CONUNDRUM FINALLY SOLVED!

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>>38914088
>over reliance on oil

Ah yes, I forgot that all of the OPEC countries are also currently starving because of the dropping price of oil

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In ancap you won't need roads anyway!

>>38914930 When perpetrated against an individual, yes, never when against authoritarians or gov'ts. When the owner is "The State" it is no ones property simply because of the fact that it was stolen in the first place, and those who disagree on getting robbed are fined and/or jailed. And technically, if no one owns it, no one can steal it.

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MILLIONS OF SATISFIED CUSTOMERS!
CALL FOR FREE SOCIALIST HELICOPTER RIDES TODAY!

>>38914797
>Anti-fa aren't even communists
The bullshit meter is already going crazy with that statement alone. Those people promote actively promote communism, unironically call each other "comrades" and live in a complete delusion thinking that one day they would start a revolution.
Or is it that they are not real communists either?

>>38914986
State always initiates aggression first. Fighting the State does not break NAP, since it's *defence*.

>>38912320
First, fuck you for bringing politics here. Go to /pol/, or /b/ for your quality of post.

Second, it's not a politically left leaning board. That would be 8/leftypol/, where you belong, you piece of shit.

Besides, didn't you guys lose all your elections or something and that's why you're all "robotic?" Fucking normie.

>>38914935
>mobs

Yes you're not protected from a bunch of groids beating you if you shout nigger. That's not the government silencing you. That's individuals and while they probably are breaking the law, welp, good luck convicting the mob.

Which is also exactly what the SCOTUS ruled in Bradenburg v. Ohio

>The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.

Tldr you can't b8 niggers into beating you for calling them niggers which is about it

>>38915027 The State initiates violence when its monopoly on human rights is threatened, like when people try to live their own lives or decide for themselves. And acting in defence, like what most people do when persecuted by the state, anything is free game.

>>38914986
And if it's owned by a supercorp, not the state?

>>38914903
>We will ban greed and everyone will become moral!
And some people dare calling ancap an utopia...

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>>38912198
Just got done reading this. Hopeful for the movement.

Anyone comrades want to do a book club? We can chat about contemporary theorists over hot dog.

>>38914935
>hate speech isn't legal in the US

Yes it is. The first ammendment means you can say literally whatever you want; the only exception is if it causes immediate harm, such as screaming "bomb" on a plane, or using words to conspire to commit a crime (i.e. discussing how you'll commit a murder with the intent to commit said murder). Literally anything that can't immediately lead to physical harm, and I think something about public official assassination within some sort of layers of separation.

Not that you'd know about anything in the U.S., or any current civilization outside of your 1950's style delusion.

>>38915065
State initiates aggression when it forces people to pay taxes, under penalty of imprisonment.

>>38915084 Same thing, simply due to the monopoly. The State is a monopoly after all, and all monopolies are technically nation-states of their own.

Dear commies:

If you hate capitalism so much why fight the capitalist state? Why not go and move to a country that shares your values instead? That is infinitely more attainable than you starting some revolution in a capitalist nation.

>>38914063
>>38914071
>>38914107
The irish created political machines. Its not a conspiracy you fucking children, everyone knows it.

Its not a conspiracy, its the truth. Ever been to newyork?


So the jews did nothing amirite?

>>38914071
>drop the jew thing
t. Jew

>>38915124 Are we in agreement here? Feels like it.

>>38915126
So let me get this straight. I start my company, I am very successful to a point that I have a majority share of the market, I become a monopoly, and then it's okay for other people to steal from me?

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/his/ here.

We also recognize the need to destroy /pol/.

Robespierre did nothing wrong.

>>38915206 If you attain a monopoly the market wasn't free, something caused you to rise to the top, and I can promise you it was not quality of services. The free market is 100% global which means that monopolies are prevented due to immense competition.

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>>38915127
if ancaps should move to somalia, then maybe ansyncs and ansocs could move to venezuela?

>>38915123

> the first amendment means you can say literally whatever you want

This reveals a rather glaring lack of knowledge regarding even the most rudimentary aspects of legal theory.

For starters: law does not dictate what you CAN do, law dictates what you CANNOT do. More specifically, depending on your interpretation of agency, law dictates what the STATE will do IF you do x, y, or z.

To that end, multiple Supreme Court cases have, in fact, ruled against hate speech, broadly defined.

>>38914071
>>38914107
>Nazis are retards in the fact that they think the capitalist oppressors are only the jews.
>oppressed
You are allowed to be a bitch filthy beta kike.

>I will now post a picture that is obviously satire, showing how any race of people can be made out to be like the jews in modern nazi circle-jerk culture.
The irish used political machines back then. They don't do it now though. Capitalism has its flaws like everything

>If anything, the Nazis should drop the whole jew thing and realize capitalist elites are the ones they should worry about, not one race of people.
jews did nothing wrong right?


If you are a paid shill good for you mate but shit you are dog turd if you copy paste phrases as arguments.

Just move to north korea, no one really cares about you anyways

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>tfw it was the Bolsheviks who industrialized Russia in only 20 some years.

>>38915247
to be fair, natural monopoly is possible in free market. for example the first company to build a dyson sphere around the sun will probably monopolize energy production from the sun.

>>38915302 Oh, yes indeed, only for the price of I don't know how many million lives and and a rich and varied history and culture.

>>38915272
I'm perfectly fine with both groups moving to those respective places desu

>>38915327
What price of lives are we talking about? The kulaks? They contributed to the famines!

Besides, if they didn't industrialize, the Nazi Germans would've crushed the Soviets. And the death toll would be far greater.

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>socialsm: skewed worldview since 1867

>>38915303
One of the hypothetical pillars of capitalism is perfect information (key word here being hypothetical, as it is a fiction). The technology you mention would be shortly available to others and competition would arise.

Monopolies do not arise in a vacuum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_information

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>>38914905
I simply cant understand how indvidualists think that socitey will be utopian if every one were to simply just care about them selves and not care what others think.
>who cares If I promote dangerous drugs?
>Who cares if I promote dangerous lifestyle choices?
>Who cares if I dont help those in need?
>Who cares if I use the MSM to brainwash people?
>who cares if factories close and workers are left unemployed?
>who cares people cant afford education
>who cares if people cant afford heathcare?
>who cares if people are being exploited by usury?
>Who cares thug culture is being promoted and people are dying?

Call me a nazi or a commie for caring about the people around me and being a colectivist but, if every one helped each other and sacrficed something then we would harvest the fruits of our collective sacrafice.
>standard of living would increace.
>people would be healthier.
>more people would contribute to the economy greater.
>More people would be happier.
>more people would be out of poverty
>less crime being commited
And most importantly that stubbon indvidualist would be better off in the long term.

>>38915357 My point being that without gov'ts war would be pointless. If there is no "us vs. them" none of that would have happened. MC Adolf H and Slim Stalin used this polarizing tactic to create division where there was none.

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>>38915387
>The bourgeois class are producers

>>38915387
> and earners

lol like how they snuck that in

>>38915357

>murdering all the people who were making your food and giving the farms to low iq peasants who don't know how to farm

IF WE DIDN'T DO IT THE GERMANS WOULD HAVE DONE WORSE!

Communists everyone.

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>>38912198
welcome to meme central

>>38915412
>>38915415

love the commie hivemind

>>38915391
of course, competition would arise, but they would have to use other stars. the capital needed for entry would be greater than if sun was freely available. this is why it's called a natural monopoly

>>38915399 You shouldn't have to care about people around you because in the ideal world everybody would be able to think and decide for themselves.

>>38915391
Monopolies arose out of free market capitalism. That was the reason trust-busting started.

>>38915406
> If there is no "us vs. them" none of that would have happened.
Hitler was a genocidal maniac that wanted to annex everything from eastern France to the Ural mountains. The liberal imperialists were also committing atrocities against their colonial subjects.

An us vs. them mentality is not necessary. As long as states, which are organs of one class's domination of another, continue to exist, there will be war and conflict and imperialism.

However, the material cause of warfare isn't states themselves. States just make warfare far more efficient.

>>38915412
the "burgeois" have the capital necessary for investment in high-threshold, high-tech enterprises

>>38913502
>unironically posting korwin

rightwing fags truly have no clue

>>38915427
The death numbers are horribly exaggerated. And like I said, rapid industrialization was absolutely necessary.

I know it's kind of a meme, but seriously, not an argument.

>>38915446
Same goes for you.

>>38915487
Society has the resources necessary to not have to base everything on the bourgeoisie investing their capital profits wherever they see fit.

>>38912198
Hey, Marx did 3 major economic predictions in his works and that's about it that he wrote on economics. How come they turned out to be wrong and people even refer to Marx as an economist since he never published anything on economics in peer-reviewed journal?

>>38915391
What about patents? That would prevent competition.

>>38915399
the naswer is simple - individualists do not think that society will become utopian. libertarians understand that people are not perfect, are greedy and competitive. they present a system where those very flaws are used as checks and controls for market and society. it's pretty ingenious when you get deep into it.
for example - charities. rich people will donate to charities to get an "atruism comeuppance" over their peers. this already ahppens today, but on smaller scale, because government-run welfare system operates on money no single individual can obtain.

>>38915460
I didn't google what a dyson sphere was.

Now that I have, it's clear that the startup costs of such a project are such that the only way it would get done is as a public utility.

I'm having difficultly imagining a natural monopoly occurring, ah, naturally.

Bumpin for the superior ideology

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>>38914829
>Fun fact: there have been no socialist states in history.
anon...

>Norway's government publicly owns most of its oil companies
The company was privatised and made a public limited company (allmennaksjeselskap) in 2001, becoming listed on both the Oslo Stock Exchange and the New York Stock Exchange. At the same time it changed its name to Statoil ASA. The government retained 81,7% of the shares. Through further privatization in 2004 and 2005 the government's share was reduced to 70,9%

Also Norway has a diversified economy and encourages private business unlike socialist states like Venezuela

>>38915496
why? korwin in a conservative in social sphere, but he's all for free market.

>>38915500
society has no resources. individuals have resources.

Marx works are infested with words like "exploitation" and "alienation" which are based on false labout theory of value that was denounced anti-scientific in 1895(!!!) and since then economic mainstream was run on theory of marginal utility. The science is settled pretty much.


Now the punchline: marxists are climate change deniers from economics :^)

>>38915500

>being against a system that murdered people is not an argument

ok

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>>38912198
heil hitler originally
off yourselves commie fucking shits

>>38915622
also meant for>>38914902

blox and stuff

>>38915651
Sadly this is correct. As of now, the working class as a whole produces all, yet they own nothing, besides from petty personal property of course.

>>38915484
I'm not arguing as to whether or not monopolies came into being. My argument is that the history of capitalism is one of perpetual corruption, cronyism, and collusion. The belief that hard work and the meritocracy lead to success is bunk.

>>38915531
A patent office doesn't exist in a truly free market.

Here's the forest, just so there don't have to be any more trees: free market capitalism is an impossible ideal, and the shell of itself currently running the global economy is a morally turgid and barely functioning mess constantly tripping over itself in an effort to self-correct.

If you don't want to listen to the commies, listen to your god-kings: even the tech scions are predicting a collapse if there isn't widespread economic redistribution.

>>38915674
If you want to defend systems by lowest death toll, then defend Marxism-Leninism. Liberalism and Fascism have both killed far, far more.

>>38915496
>everyone i disagree with is right wing
kys

>>38915670
Source on the late 19th century value theory work

>>38915552
well, go on a smaller scale, like lakes or something. if there's only one, or very few of something, the person that obtains it will have a natural monopoly over it. this isn't because of free market, but because of scarcity and physics, i guess.
natural monopoly is in contrast to typical monopolies we have now, where a corporation lobbies the government to establish artificial obstacles for getting into the market (licenses, etc.).
natural monopolies will most likely be extremely rare.

>>38915500

I don't see how you can accept a system that predicates itself on accepting that it was necessary to murder an entire class of people

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>Tfw the Soviet Union life expectancy was continuously growing until Khrushevite-revisionists brought in market reforms

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>>38912198
>Daily reminder that /r9k/ is the last leftist/communist stronghold in 4chan.

How exactly are you leftists?
>Hur dur Hillary Clinton is better than drumpf
>She won the popular vote

I dont really see anything on here that abides by leftist ideology, maybe the NEETS, but I highly doubt anyone on here seriously believes Marxism isnt utter bullshit.

>>38915724
Red a book sometimes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility

>>38915711

I never defended any system. We were talking about kulaks. Both the Nazis and Bolsheviks were in the business of butchering people for power and I'm not defending either, but you can't justify murdering a bunch of people because industrialization was necessary or the numbers were inflated.

>>38915724
https://mises.org/library/karl-marx-and-close-his-system

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>>38915744
>Noo! Don't hurt the people that are continuously exploiting you while plundering the Earth
>Don't kill the class of people and subject women and children to sweat shop conditions
>Please don't kill the class that uses the legal monopoly on violence, the state, to keep power
I'm not sure if there's anything worse than a liberal.

>>38915746
>life expectancy growing during the biggest slaughterhouse in human history

Nice data you've got there.

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>>38912198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fk5iGkp27M
post GOAT communist music

>>38912198

>this just used to be a decent board for dysfunctional autists and rejects/failures
>now it's a cool place for fembots (RPing men), communists, cuck b8 posters, and general shitposters to congregate
>on top of that there are always two or three trap threads and /r9gay/ threads on everyday

Jesus Christ, why do I still come here.

>>38915793
During a time of famine due to unusually bad weather, there were people (the kulaks) literally destroying farm equipment, burning their surplus grain, and killing live stock because they were pissing they couldn't keep making more money over poorer peasants.

If you don't see what's wrong with crushing a group of people who were committing economic sabotage and intentionally exacerbating the already brutal famine, I don't know what to say to you.

>>38915800
Refute it then.

>>38915632
and he's also a laughing stock, making a fool out of himself every time he speaks. the quote you posted illustrates that nicely, since it is basically

>lol socialists dumber than monkeys XD

>>38915702
while patents may not exist, an author of an invention may only agree to allow you to use it if you sign a declaration that you will not copy it. breaking such agreement would be a crime, obviously.

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>be from eastern europe
>hear westerners try to preach the benefits of communism
it's actually pretty cute

>>38915797

how were the kulaks oppressive? They were barely above being subsistence farmers. They weren't oppressing anyone they were farming.

>>38915719
>korwin
>not rightwing

>>38915702
>history of capitalism is one of perpetual corruption, cronyism, and collusion

What you describe is real and does happen, but only because the State interferes in the market. Capitalism needs free market to be fair. Right now there is no free market.

>>38915867
Yeah, same.


t. immigrant from Russia

>>38915775

Funny, given that you didn't link to a book.

How does diminishing returns demonstrate "words like "exploitation" and "alienation"" are "based on false labout theory of value that was denounced anti-scientific."

Also, what the fuck were you trying to type with the second part?

>>38915800
Also here's a similar situation with China
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/

>>38915873
The kulaks were literally starving people because they were greedy. That's oppressive. The kulaks were also exploiting the poorer peasant. A kulak was a relatively wealthy peasant that owned the live stock and farms, and would have poorer peasants work on said farms. Of course the kulaks pocketed all the profit and surplus agriculture, and when the famine struck they hoarded all the food.

>>38915867
>>38915885

Plenty of Eastern European theorists are leftists, including those ravaged by the legacy of the Soviets. Zizek and Habermas, for example.

Sorry things were fucked for your families, but it's the only future for the species.

>>38915845
That may be true (and he's actually infamous among his fans for this), but if you research the things he says and think them through, instead of taking them at face value, he's often not wrong in his opinions.

>>38915912
>The kulaks were literally starving
At last some truth about soviet russia.

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>>38915927
>eastern europen theorists
>theorists

>>38915940
>he's often not wrong in his opinions

post examples

korwin is a fuckin climate change denier who tried (and is still trying) to get into the polish parliament for almost 30 years and failed every time. even if your views align with his, i really dont understand how can you bring him up as an authority of any kind.

>>38915889
>Funny, given that you didn't link to a book.
If you never heard of marginal utility, you don't need a book. You need a comic book for kids themed with econ101.

>How does diminishing returns demonstrate "words like "exploitation" and "alienation"" are "based on false labout theory of value that was denounced anti-scientific."

Another marxist who never read Marx? Ok, here we go.

Whole marxist theory is based on labour theory of value. E.g. the price of the product is determined by amount of labour spent by worker on it. But since the worker never receives the full profit of selling the product that he made, he only receives set amount of money as salary(and the capitalist pockets so called surplus value), this is deemed as "exploitation". And if any worker is ok with this "exploitation", that means the worker is in "alienation"(e.g. evil capitalist brainwashed him into believing it's ok to give away your surplus value).

The thing is, labour theory of value was reject as being retarded in late 19th century and since then economic science was run of theory of marginal utility.

>Also, what the fuck were you trying to type with the second part?
What do you mean? Marxist are trying to deny marginal utility while the economic mainstream is running on it. Marxist are basically climate change deniers.

>>38915882

> it'll work if it works my way!

And we get made fun of for that one.

Capitalism is inextricably and existentially tied to exploitation. Removing the self-corrective apparatus of the state would lead to even greater degrees of human suffering.

>>38915867
i know right? What is even more hilarious is how enthusiastically they do it. Like they actually believe that it will solve all their problems and everyone will be happy.
It reminds me of some fliers i got from Jehova Witnesses where they depict everyone being happy and friendly (including the carnivorous animals).
But i say let them have it. They have to try it at least one more time right? Just to be sure it doesn't work.

>>38915927
>Zizek and Habermas
I'm sorry I don't give a flying fuck about philosophers, because they failed to read econ101. Zizek is a freaking cinema critic, like, why do I care abut his rants on subjects than he have no idea about?

>>38916036
for example his recent interview in Good Morning Britain

korwin is respected, because he's single-handedly responsible for introducing the concept of freedom and free market to at least three generations of polish people. for me he was the first step toward libertarianism i've taken.
he also never actually changed his mind on anything in those 30 years. some people respect him just for that.

and anyway, the controversies around him make him one of the most recognized politicians in poland ever.

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>>38916070
>Well you guys never had REAL communism

>>38916147
Communism is statelessness. We've had states for the past 15,000 years. How the fuck could we have communism?

>>38915881
you imply that anyone who might agree with something he said is a right winger. Besides, even that old mad man speaks more sense than pretty much all the commies I've met and he also has more credibility, considering he lived through communism, than a larping neckbeard dreaming of being a commie hero.

>>38915889
>Funny, given that you didn't link to a book.
Although, if you want any books, I can offer you some.

If you have problems with math:
https://www.amazon.com/Intermediate-Microeconomics-Modern-Approach-Eighth/dp/0393934241

If you don't have problems with math:
https://bwfitri.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/microeconomics-and-behavior-frank.pdf

A good book on microeconomics will tell you more about free market failures than all /leftypol/ combined.

if the holodomor happened why is it illegal to question it?

>>38916026
I don't get it.

>>38916061
> Whole marxist theory is based on labour theory of value.
You make an awful lot of snide comments about literacy for someone who cant put together a coherent sentence.

To address what I think you meant, however: Marx and math don't go together very well. His claim that you can reverse-engineer the price of a product through analyzing the labor behind it has been widely disproven, though I've heard of some dissertations using interesting programs to attempt just that.

However, his concept of value is abstract, and markedly different from "price" or "profit." Nature can provide value, for example. Moreover, he takes into consideration some of the principles that would become known as marginal utility when he discusses how value is revealed through the exchange or sale of other commodities. While they cannot be considered as discrete packets of labor-time, as he suggests, the principles behind his notions of exploitation and alienation still stand.

Finally, while trying to pin him with his weakest theories is a strong rhetorical move, the entirety of his corpus does not, in fact, rest on this single point from volume 1 of Capital. If you have read him, then you're deploying a willfully shortsighted interpretation.

>>38916113
>his recent interview in Good Morning Britain
The one where he tried to argue that women get paid less because they're, on average, dumber? That shit was ridiculous. Most research shows that there is no statistically significant difference in intelligence between sexes. The ones that show a difference make it out to be at most 5 IQ points.


>korwin is respected
>the controversies around him make him one of the most recognized politicians in poland ever.
Respected by whom? He is the politician with the biggest negative electorate in Poland, he's even less liked than Kaczynski. Not even the fuckin libertarians like him because they think he embarasses them and their cause.

>you imply that anyone who might agree with something he said is a right winger.
Considering korwin says right wing things, and also often says how leftists are dumb and subhuman, its pretty safe to say that he and people who agree with him are rightwing.

>besides, even that old mad man speaks more sense than pretty much all the commies I've met and he also has more credibility, considering he lived through communism
Thats not an argument at all. There's plenty of people who lived through communism that are still socialists or soc-dem. How is his word any better than theirs?

>>38912198
Wow op way to insult everyone's inteligence on this board

>>38916162
> we've had states for 15,000 years

That implies a wide enough interpretation of the word "state" to be functionally useless. We have not had states as most communists and, for that matter, historians would define it for 15,000 years.

Check out some Engles. Origins of family private property and the state.

>>38916101

Then throw out Zizek, the point stands.

Bahktin had his fucking legs cut off in a gulag and still believed in communism. It's the only future for the species.

>>38912198
Communists did the holohoax and blamed Hitler for it

>>38916427
What are you talking about? A state is the organ for one class's domination of another. States came into being with the advent of agriculture and the transition from hunter-gatherer society ("primitive communism" as Engels would describe) into ancient slave style society.

>>38916412
He preaches here precisely because we are robots. He thinks the robots are desperate enough to swallow propaganda and side with him. And he's not wrong on that tbqh. Throughout history, the most zealous ideologues were the desperate people or those who had dull lives and wanted a purpose. /r9k/ is pretty much full with people of the latter category.

Capitalism enables welfare leeches though. In a communist system you'd be forced to work despite any alleged autism. That won't save you until post scarcity. A communist NEET is just as suicidal as an ancap NEET.

>>38912198
>Daily reminder that /r9k/ is the last leftist/communist stronghold in 4chan.
That's clearly just made up though, isn't it? I'd wager a majority of people here are morally conservative, with more diversity of thoughts on economic matters.

>>38916657
Morally conservative is an oxymoron

>>38916406
>The one where he tried to argue that women get paid less because they're, on average, dumber?

watch that vid again, anon, because you missed most the arguments.

>>38915691
>besides petty personal property
You mean like the petty personal property they're producing? Some guy working in a shoe factory now becomes entitled to all the shoes he makes, okay, all that did was produce a less efficient currency system than the dollar.

>>38916641
>Capitalism enables welfare leeches though
lol no. the state enables welfare leeches through taxation of honest to god working folk.

>>38916808
Right, it's a socialistic structure inside a capitalist one that couldn't function inside a communist one

>>38916742
But those are literally his words. He starts off by saying how there are less women on the right end of the IQ bell curve (which is true) and then he goes on to argue how women are paid less because they're weaker and smaller (which is also generally true), and dumber (not true). Except he completely ignores the fact that women are paid less also in positions which do not require high physical or intellectual ability.

>>38916847
or anarchocapitalist one

both ancaps and ansynds want to smash the state. why can't we be friends and smash the state together?

>>38916847
that's an absurdly broad generalisation to survive capitalism requires a flexible reserve force of labour but also requires said reserve force can continue consuming goods produced by capitalism, it could not exist under socialism because socialism would do away with the necessity of inflated demand and consumption

>>38916898
capitalism however, requires welfare to survive

>>38916954
>capitalism however, requires welfare to survive
which on free market can be provided by private charities using voluntary donations. it's a system that worked well in xixth century england. those charities disappeared only after 1834 poor relief act that virtually forbid them from operating. the state wanted to monoplize welfare to explain taxation rate.

>>38916806
Factories are currently private property, not personal property. The working class owns no private property.

Capital is private, not personal.

>>38917031
voluntary donations always end up with a poorer result than public works, people give a far smaller part of their income into charity and with fewer regulatory oversights the amount that actually goes to the needy is considerably smaller

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>>38916898
Capitalism requires the state to function. If you try to abolish the state (which you can't under the capitalism, the material conditions for a state is still there), it simply won't happen.

>>38917051
private charities always were more efficient than government dole, because they could filter out those who needed actual help from lazy leeches.
they got more with less.
if you want to see how privately funded charity works today, read about how the amish in us do it.

>>38917074
read some Rothbard to learn about how stateless capitalist system can work

>>38916483
>Bahktin had his fucking legs cut off in a gulag and still believed in communism
just shows how deluded commies are

>>38917161
If people are lazy and greedy why would they give to charities and why won't charities perform a bit of money laundering to pretend they're getting stuff done
like in iran right now

>>38912198
I fucking hate rich people. All of them.

>>38917247
>If people are lazy and greedy why would they give to charities
because they want to show they are better than other people. why does bill gates give money to charity? out of the goodness of his heart or that he wants to convince people that he's not a bad guy?

>>38917304
possibly because the gates foundation is an excellent way to launder money to avoid taxes, esp inheritance taxes while just giving enough to the needy to pretend he's making a change in the world

r9k is apolitical u leftist cuckold faggot, get ur bullshit lefty garbage out my face and go to pol

r9k is not for politics

>>38915797
The funny thing is that you mock that article, but if you knew a single fucking thing about economics, you'd realize it was true. People work in sweatshops because they're the best jobs in the area.

>>38917351
so? the needy are getting the money in the end.
this is what libertarianism is about - conditions can be created where human nature and its flaws are exploited for profit of everyone.

>>38917386
are you telling me capitalism is structurally incapable of providing better jobs than sweatshops?

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>>38912198
Anarchism is the only way.

>>38917407
I'm telling you that when the choice is between begging/prostitution/subsistence farming and sweatshops, people prefer sweatshops.

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You can be commies if you want, but please leave me alone.

>>38917441
ah, this must be the liberty safeguarded by capitalism at work

One of the problems of communism is a misplaced nostalgia for the veneration of the laborer in the soviet union. I think this nostalgia is a problem for robot socialists.

Many of us are or have been NEETS, or have struggled to fit in within institutions like school, university, workplaces, of course, because of normie ideology.

If we are largely an underemployed caste, that puts us outside of the regular unionised/organised labour force, and without the benefits of its station in society and its collective mobilization. That isn't to say that they are our enemy, or that it is not possible or beneficial to join the majority organised labour force.

But typical liberal-capitalist societies have their own characteristic of worker veneration which leads to the robots seclusion from their class in the proletariat, and greater enfranchisement in their society. The liberal capitalist society is structured around the belief that the individual is responsible for their condition and must strive to accrue wealth and comforts. There is also the prerogative that a citizen must contribute something to their city/society - these are the bases for wealth as reward in our day, and the source of our alienation.

The soviets had a particular problem in time of developing from a disoeganised feudal economy into an organized socialist system, and accordingly, a proper industrial communist commons. It was historically necessary for individuals to labour for their country. The state greatly rewarded and honored those who distinguished themselves in work.

But our contemporary economy is much different. Globalisation, automation and powerful industrial machinery can deliver us everything we need with comfortable working conditions. Hard work, as the capitalist demands of the worker, is becoming less necessary in the developed world. The robot is denied a dignified life by brutal welfare apparatuses so that capitalist politicians can score points on sticking the boot into the poor.

communism is retarded, and the fact that you suckers are "organizing" on a board dedicated to losers only reinforces this opinion

>>38917407
he's telling you at the moment the article was written the sweatshops were the best businesses available in that geographical area.

bangladesh is very low in the economic freedom index, which means most of the market is controlled and obstructed by the government: http://www.heritage.org/index/country/bangladesh
>Government ownership and interference in the financial sector remain considerable, undermining efficiency and growth.

make the market more free there and investors will flock and create better businesses.

>>38917469
Nice argument bud.

oregano

>>38917513
It's also incredibly disingenuous to go on about "low wages" in a place where the price of living is orders of magnitude lower than the west.

But they're commies, their whole ideology is based on lies and misrepresentation.

>>38917486
To wrap it up, what I think is that in the communist tradition, there remains an ideological fantasy about work. Not too dissimilar from liberal capitalist individualist dogma which asks us to choose between working 3 minimum wage jobs to have nothing to retire on, or to languish on neetbux.

Delivering the NEET life to all is a question for the greater battle between the proletariat and the private lords and spineless liberal politicians.

But communist ideology and praxis can be refined by taking note of the hypocritical worker worship which resents the robot for their inability to access the greater established working class within organised labour.

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>mfw this thread
goddamn commies. I disagree with you all respectfully

>>38917386
There is a finer point about women's emancipation in the article which is not inconsistent with the Marxist contention that sweatshops are evil. You could miss a detailed picture of women's life in the 3rd world with a black and white Marxist approach. Where intersectional analysis appears in pulp magazines it can appear fanciful and ignorant, but if you read between the lines there's a benefit to understanding and synthesizing both strains of thought.

>>38917513
>make the market more free there and investors will flock and create better businesses

The sweatshop working conditions aren't bad because they're bad businesses, they're bad because the government allows that. The rich and powerful owners of textile factories do everything they can to exploit the poor workers, and the government doesn't care because it brings them money. Literally textbook capitalism.

>>38917566
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Bangladesh&displayCurrency=USD
>Average Monthly Net Salary (After Tax) 343.52 $
>Meal for 2 People, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 10.23 $
>(3% of salary)
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United+States
>Average Monthly Net Salary (After Tax) 3,093.94 $
>Meal for 2 People, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 50.00 $
>(1.61% of salary)

so it's not that bad

>>38917567
I suggest you look into Baudrillard's The Mirror of Producion and Kathi Weeks The Problem With Work. Both provide a critique of Marxism's productivism, with the former being particularly interesting.

>>38917817
And to be fair, they're probably not buying food from restaurants, but wholesale from markets.

>>38917817
poland for comparison:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Poland&displayCurrency=USD
>Meal for 2 People, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 27.76 $
>Average Monthly Net Salary (After Tax) 890.60 $
>(3.11% of salary)

those poor exploited workers in bangladesh!

>Tyrannical toward himself, he must be tyrannical toward others. All the gentle and enervating sentiments of kinship, love, friendship, gratitude, and even honor, must be suppressed in him and give place to the cold and single-minded passion for revolution. For him, there exists only one pleasure, on consolation, one reward, one satisfaction - the success of the revolution. Night and day he must have but one thought, one aim -
merciless destruction. Striving cold-bloodedly and indefatigably toward this end, he must be prepared to destroy himself and to destroy with his own hands everything that stands in the path of the revolution.
https://www.marxists.org/subject/anarchism/nechayev/catechism.htm

Nechayev was a robot

>>38917817
>>38917926
>average and not median pay
>using a meal for 2 in a midrange restaurant as a representative of anything

>>38918019
i provided links. check the prices and make a better comparison, senpai.

>politics in MY are nine kay
>>>/pol/

>>38918055
You want me to make an argument for you?

protip: in Poland, almost 70% of the people earn BELOW average pay (as of the end of 2015). In Bangladesh, where the class differences are way more pronounced, I imagine the gap is even bigger. So if you're gonna bring up salary, use median or gtfo.

>>38918166
well, if you want to refute my argument, you should provide some data. isn't that how it works?
if you just want to bitch and moan though, we can continue.

>>38918363
I have refuted your argument by saying the data you provided is not relevant. You haven't yet provided relevant statistics providing WORKERS in bangladesh AREN'T exploited, other than the average income which is, once again, inaccurate when it comes to judging actual pay and living conditions.

>>38918517
>provided relevant statistics providing WORKERS in bangladesh

proving instead of providing

>>38918517
and i say the data is relevant, since prices provided are also averages. your move, senpai.

>>38917857
Thanks for the rec mate. I had a look at Baudrillards stuff.

>For Baudrillard, Marx did not transcend political economy but merely saw its reverse or its "mirror" side. Marxism merely strengthens political economy's basic propositions, in particular the idea that self-creation is performed through productive, non-alienated labor. In Baudrillard's words, "Marxism convinces men that they are alienated by the sale of their labor power, thus censoring the much more radical hypothesis that they might be alienated as labor power." Baudrillard proposes to liberate workers from their "labor value" and think in terms other than production.

This gives me the feeling I got when reading Foucault and Habermas. If you make-believe a little, it's like someone is trying to show you the matrix.

I'm sure I'm going to find it really interesting.

>>38918582
>prices provided are also averages
Are you fuckin retarded? If you take a price of a product like milk for example, it's gonna vary very little, while monthly pay can range from hundreds of thousands to a couple of dollars. The right end of bell curve skews the average, hence why I'm asking you to provide median pay since it actually gives an idea of what an average person makes.

>>38918720
you can do a google search yourself, anon. you want me to make an argument for you? :^)

>>38918769
my argument is that if the factory workers were paid so well in bangladesh, they wouldn't be protesting to raise minimal wage and better working conditions

>>38918853
my argument is that if the factory workers were paid so little in bangladesh, they would find a better job. since they didn't, there was no better job for their qualifications.

>>38918928
>completely changing the topic

great arguing anon, i suggest you go back to whatever libertarian facebook page you came from

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>>38912198
Good to know you guys make yourselves known.

Stay right there, I'm warming up the helicopters.

>>38918989
>changing the topic
>>38917386
>>38917441
>>38917513
>>38917566
>>38917817
>>38917926
that was the topic all along, senpai

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>>38913038
He's probably one of those people who thinks poor people existing means capitalism has failed.

>>38919042
ok

first post >>38917386
>People work in sweatshops because they're the best jobs in the area
second post >>38917441
>I'm telling you that when the choice is between begging/prostitution/subsistence farming and sweatshops, people prefer sweatshops.
third post >>38917513
>sweatshops were the best businesses available in that geographical area

another 2 posts of irrelevant data

and for the grand finale, your last post >>38918928
>they would find a better job

also, inb4 muh qualifications - there isn't a way for a poor guy from bumfuck of nowhere in bangladesh to raise his qualifications, people are forced to start working very early to sustain themselves and their families. Only the rich can afford education.

>>38919209
well, if they never learn new skills, why the fuck should they be paid more? for what? the work they do is menial, low skill and a child could do it. they are paid for what they are worth on the market.
if any one of them wanted to earn more, he could buy a fucking english lagnuage book, read it every evening, learn the fucking language and go work in a fucking call center. thousands of people in 3rd world countries somehow manage to do it.

but instead of improving their life, they want someone else to do it for them? that's socialism - wanting for someone else to do the hard part.

>>38919008
gotta love the helicopter guy(s). :))

>>38919349
>>38919349
>wanting to be paid enough to survive is somehow wrong
>wanting to work in non life threatening conditions is also somehow wrong

>well, if they never learn new skills, why the fuck should they be paid more?
Because they're not being paid enough to survive
>the work they do is menial, low skill and a child could do it
In 1993 Bangladesh passed a bill that abolished child work. Instead, children were forced into unregulated, more dangerous jobs to help support their families.
>they are paid for what they are worth on the market
Are workers in western countries in the textile industry worth more on the market? Because they're paid way more for the same job with less hours, paid holidays, better working conditions and insurance. And they still make profit for the company.
I bet good money you haven't ever worked in your life. Once you move out of your parents basement you'll realise how important are workers rights.

>>38919524
>In 1993 Bangladesh passed a bill that abolished child work. Instead, children were forced into unregulated, more dangerous jobs to help support their families.
Good job, government! Now the children suffer more!
>Are workers in western countries in the textile industry worth more on the market?
Yes, because they mostly know english.

>>38919729
Anda fucking textile worker in western world doesn't sew or some shit by hand, but operates machines that amplify a human's work hundredfold. You're fucking comparing an apple to an apple orchard and asking why the orchard is worth more.

>>38912198
Am I still considered a leftist if I only support far left ideas because I think they're economically destructive and have the potential to cause millions of normalfags great suffering

>>38919729
>grasping at straws: the post

Children wouldn't be forced into unregulated jobs if their parents earned enough to support them.

>Yes, because they mostly know english
How the fuck is this relevant when you're working in a textile factory? You could be mute and deaf and it wouldn't affect your work at all.
>Anda fucking textile worker in western world doesn't sew or some shit by hand, but operates machines that amplify a human's work hundredfold
And what the fuck do you think they do in Bangladesh? They're the second largest exporter of textiles in the world right behind China, do you think they make all these t-shirts for Zara or H&M or whatever by hand?

God, you're fuckin clueless

>>38912198
communism is retarded it never works only starbucks enthusiasts take it seriously

>>38919524
>I bet good money you haven't ever worked in your life. Once you move out of your parents basement you'll realise how important are workers rights
And wrong, faggot. I'm 35, from a post-soviet country, lived through the death throes of socialism long enough to remember the empty shelves and treating fucking oranges like treasure, went through uni working my ass off to pay my bills and now am a software engineer in small private enterprise. Through hard work and persistance I now make more than my parents and grandparents ever did, combined. Maybe if you go outside of the echo chamber of your leftie college, you'll see that socialism is a fucking joke and commies should just fucking die.

>>38920002
>i'm 35 yo with a degree but have no idea how the world works so i spout libertarian buzzwords on r9k

Congratulations anon. Also by the way, people in the west and the north are making the same or more money and living better than you without slaving away their best years thanks to wonderful powers of social benefits and workers rights.

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>>38912198
I'm going to North Korea in a couple of days
Ask me anything.

>>38912198
>being a commie
>believing in utopian fairytails

I can understand socialism, but communism? Really?

>not being an anarchist
>actually wantting to be someone else's slave
i pity you

>>38920387
funfact, communism is defined as a stateless society without heirarchy so if you're a communist, you're automatically an anarchist unless you're LENINIST-STALINIST GARBAGE

TROT 4 LYFE

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>>38912198
NO. I REFUSE. THIS IS WAY TOO OBVIOUS /LEFTYPOL/. LEAVE.

>>38912787
>Muh radical centrism

>>38912198
REEEEEE

/LEFTPOL/ need to get out

>>38920610
stalin literally did nothing wrong trotsky and the like would have left the ussr weak to the nazis and accidentally let most of eastern europe get exterminated by hitler

>>38912981
>he still doesn't realize Communism and Capitalism both have the same nefarious goals
Anon stop

>>38914286
eurocuck spotted
it's a good right to have

>>38920198
>>38920095
>>38919866
>>38919524
>>38917430
>>38917298
>>38917304
>>38915927

GET THE DAMN COMMIES OUT OUT OUT OUT NOW
YOU MIGHT THINK THAT LIFE HAS DEFEATED US BUT YOU HAVENT AND WONT
OUT WITH THE GAYS! OUT WITH LEFTISTS! OUT WITH JEWS AND FEMALES! WE HAVE NOT LOST THIS BOARD YET YOU WILL NOT TURN THIS INTO ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR REDDIT SOCIALIST ECHO CHAMBERS OUT NEWFAGGOTS OUT
This board was for rejects of society, but you newfaggots came here to complain about shit that's been complaigned about on reddit already.

>>38912198
>Daily reminder that /r9k/ is the last leftist/communist stronghold in 4chan.
because you're fucking retards

fuck off back to leftypol losers

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>>38912198
commies get free helicopter rides

>>38922219
haha my favourite meme did you find that on r/the_donald too?

>>38912266
Because /Pol/ is definitely full of intellectuals.

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FUCK OOOOOOOOFF R9K IS NOT FOR COMMIES

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>>38922178
Not /leftypol/ bro (i'm >>38920198 ). Just think it'll be quite an experience to see the last ultra totalitarian soviet-tier state before it fails like all the others.

I've got a saying: "The only good things that came from communism was the music and the memes"

>>38914465
>If your working conditions suck do something about it
yeah
that's kinda the point dumbass

>>38922515
Your pic is retarded. It's also the workers who mine out the raw resources, who operate and maintain and repair the machinery. It's the workers who work in advertising, and work on power lines and power plants to keep the factory going.

All of society is made and produced by the workers. Stop being a class cuck.

>>38922889
>I've got a saying: "The only good things that came from communism was the music and the memes"
Also rapid increases in standards of living, industry, and the first satellite, man, dog, and station in space, but since that's inconvenient to your shit narrative let's just ignore that.