programming

>>38593743
>I know this question might get asked here alot but programming sounds like a comfy robot hobby and i would like to know which books are good and what programming language i should begin with ? I'm not asking you to spoon feed me with information but just to point me into the right direction

It isn't
Don't try
It's worthless

The more important question is, "what do you want to make?". Are you looking for something you can apply to your daily computer use right away, or do you want to create a few small things and move on to other stuff. Maybe you just want to learn about how computer programs work.

>>38593743
Start with something well documented and actually useful to businesses. Try something like Java or C++, unless web development really interests you, in which case, learn HTML, PHP, CSS and some variation of SQL.

Alternatively, pick a game you like and would like to mod, and just learn the language as you go with that. It'll give you something to do that could be useful in the future but ultimately don't need it to get work out of it. Terraria uses C# for instance.

>>38593750
what makes it worthless ?


originalio

>>38593804
Web development and design are rabbit holes.
They're never ending quests of shit tons of work.
HTML, CSS, Javascript. Just for the webpage itself.
You still need a backend, or at least a db.
Ruby (maybe Rails too), Python or Perl for even simple backend.
That's too much work for a simple hobby.

And that's not even the real backend. That's nothing of servers and CGIs.

>>38593798
I want to create small projects and move on to other stuff

>>38593743
just don't forget to cross dress, it makes you better at programming

>>38593974
Are the web development jobs good or is it over saturated by normies

>>38594049
They on average pay less than other software engineering positions

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>>38594026
Try one of these books.
They cover 3 languages:
Python
C++
Java

Any one of those three languages will enable you to make all kinds of shit.
Python will be the easiest to start with.
C++ will let you make the widest range of shit.
Java will allow you to work easily on the greatest range of platforms.

They all have their pros and cons. They're all suited better or worse to some particular purpose. Which is right for you may require a little trial and error, maybe a week on each to figure out which you like the best, or which is better suited to the stuff you want to do.

>>38594127
Not OP but which would you recommend between Python and C++?

>>38594127
thanks anon i'll check these out

>>38594049
I gave it up as soon as I got done with CSS & HTML and started on Javascript.
For these reasons:

-Web development is rife with Normans. It wasn't the workers or the developers that bugged me. It was the clients/customers. They come to you, wanting 'they don't really know what', having no idea how anything works, with only the most vague idea of what it should look like or do, expecting the world, and not wanting to pay for any of it. It's like asking a woman what she wants for dinner. She doesn't know, but she doesn't want anything you suggest either. Plus, she doesn't feel like paying unless you FORCE her to. THAT'S exactly what the clients were like.

-You will be competing with Pajeets who work for pennies, or at least quote work for pennies. They drive down the market value of Web Development work enormously with their miniscule bids.

-Clients are never grateful. They all want you to create the next Facebook. But, because all you're doing is typing some code, they don't think your work is hard, or is worth a lot of money.

I just do basic IT shit now. Because I'm lazy, and never went to college. I write some very basic programs, but that's as a hobby.

Don't consider me an expert. I'm purely a hobbyist. Not even a good one. But that's why I think my input may be relevant. I don't live as a coder. I just fuck with it when I get bored. I make dice rollers, number generators, simple comand line games. A few basic scrapers, some rudimentary spam bots.

>>38594178
not that guy but c++ will teach you more about how computers and memory work, if only because you will ruin your own programs so often

>>38594127
pro tip

java is garbage

>>38594291
not op but why is java garbage?

>>38594178
Python is a shitty language that is only usable for easy testing. New programmers always love python when they see it, but turn away as they learn more of what they can do with other more robust languages

>>38594178
I started with C++. Never touched Java. Now, I'm learning Python.

I like C++ because I got a real feel for exactly how shit worked. Everything in C++ is very explicit, and I could write stuff without bugs or problems as long as I knew exactly what I wanted and thought carefully about how it would work. A little planning goes a long way in C++, and it's really one of those things where you build something huge and complex with tons of tiny simple pieces. The functions features and headers are all very singular in their purpose, so you can come to a great deal of understanding about what a function does, or how a variable works, or what happens when you do something.

Python has tons of features, and shifts a lot of the complexity onto the interpreter. You don't have to worry about memory allocation, or deletion. There are no pointers, or strict types to convert between. Strings are much easier to work with in Python, and data types are diverse and give you a lot to work with. I've written a lot of the same programs in C++ and Python, and they're usually simpler and easier to write in Python, and always significantly shorter.

That said, I use Python more for simple stuff, or random stuff where I'm not concerned with exact details, but I really prefer C++. I feel like a lot of stuff in Python happens behind the scenes, and I'm not always sure what's going on. There's a lot more data types and constructs, so there's a lot more to learn about how they all do and don't play nice together. If I'm making something simple as fuck, I use Python, otherwise, I use C++.

>>38594415
I've been using all three for a while, and I think they all have their own uses. I've been checking out Rust as of late, which I think might replace C++ for me largely. C++ is what I use for anything that requires speed, and it's usually just the C features that I use.

Java is a language with a good level of abstraction and, in my opinion, well done object orientation. It allows for programs of similar complexity to C++ to be written with much less hassle and opportunity for errors. I especially like the functional interface in Java 8.

Python is quick to write, and that's about it. That isn't nothing though, I still use it a lot. Pretty much all of my web scrapers are python, and I can reliably use it to make something on the spot that I need, like a probability simulation.

Not OP but after learning a few languages then what ?

>>38594535
I've not written a web scraper in Python before. I'd actually like to know more about the matter, greatly. If you have a pastebin, that'd be lovely. If you could recommend some books, that'd be great too.

Also, thoughts on Scrapy and BeautifulSoup?

I write my scrapers using bash, grep, and curl. Like I said, VERY RUDIMENTARY. But, it gets the job done.

>>38594346
hating java is a meme

>>38594580
You either enjoy it, or you don't. You either want to do it for money, or you don't. Maybe you want to go to school for it, maybe not.

But, the next step is to start looking at other peoples' code. Get some ideas, learn some techniques, gain some experience. Getting to the point where you can write and understand the code well enough to comprehend something someone else who's better than you has written is a big hurdle for a beginner.

>>38594595
I use beautifulsoup 4, and it's pretty nice. I used to just use urllib2 to grab the html and then write my own parser, but bs4 simplifies the parsing greatly. I don't have any books to recommend, as I've learned pretty much entirely by fucking around and reading the docs. Requests is also a library I can highly reccomend for handling http, here's a pastebin to some code that accuses Henry Kissinger of a random war crime (Minorly buggy): https://pastebin.com/2ufDB15a

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>>38593743
Learn Scala and rise above the imperative object oriented fags

>>38594603
T. I don't know how to make threads so this programming language is bad :(((

>>38595080
functional languages are meme bullshit
if you actually like things like lisp you are fucking autistic

t. master's degree computer scientist

>>38595145
>t. can't understand the functional paradigm and insults it to avoid looking bad
Fixed that for you. I'll be sitting over here with my thread safety and referential transparency in the meantime.

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>>38593743
This hobby may require some basic training if you know what I mean.

>>38595289
training ? what do you mean ?

>>38594346
Very tedious to write (verbose), huge executables, requires jre, shitty apis, pajeets, etc.
Go for c# or c++

C# is very beginner friendly and teaches the fundamentals well.

>>38596586
c is the ultimate in teaching fundamentals, plus no shitty microsoft garbage to deal with

>>38596616
Yes, but at the cost of beginner friendliness. C# is a still great starting point, after that you can go learn deeper/more fundamental stuff with C.

>>38596666
well, can't argue with quads. gonna go shove a printed copy of the c# docs up my ass hole.

I just started learning python last night, following a set of lessons on YouTube. I don't have the discipline to read and learn myself so that is why I prefer being taught by YouTube. I also had a notebook and pen to take notes with.