So why aren't you learning how to program, /r9k/?

>>38361251
brainlet
memorylet

>>38361251
I am a SQL server developer and I also know C# well.

what separates a good programmer from a bad or mediocre one?
at what point can you consider yourself to be good?
this bothers me

>>38361955
Good programmers can eliminate repetition in any given situation and plan things out effectively on the fly.

>>38361251
Because its an obsolete skill. Leave the programming to AI. Focus on being lazy so the government will give you money for nothing.

>>38361251
I'm terrible at math. It has way too much math for my comfort.

>>38361955
mostly being able to remove extra memory loads or make programs more efficient. Aka don't fucking hard code an array holding 1 million numbers, create an algorithm that sorts and stores numbers as they become necessary

>>38362037
>don't fucking hard code an array holding 1 million numbers
Does anyone actually do that shit?

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>programming
>pic of html and css

>>38361251
I kinda want to.
But only so i can program robots to play games/write music

That shit's rad

>>38362435
HTML5/CSS3 is turing complete :^)

>>38362448
your mom is also turin complete
why would anyone care its about styling a document not programming
you cant have any subroutines whatsoever or move data around

>>38362466
I was merely jesting

>>38362473
not really obvious on the internet
sorry then i get triggered about that easily

>>38361251
I've been programming for 30 years but I retired now.

>>38362435
both are programming
and css is even Turing complete as someone pointed out
>>38362466
well technically you can

>>38362520
you know thats bullshit
html and css are for styling and dont have mucht to do with programming
next youre gonna try to tell me that latex is programming or what
what are you "programming" i.e. where is the program?

Aside from JS what languages are gonna get a lot of market share in the future? inb4 Rust & Go

>>38362539
latex is surely programming by any definition. (http://tug.org/TUGboat/Articles/tb11-3/tb29greene.pdf)
HTML is programming because you program the renderer to render. It's pretty restrictive. CSS is something more - due to rule 110 implemented it'd be fairly trivial to build any other logic machine in it.

I want to but don't know where/how to start

>>38362774
Pick any language between C, C++, Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, C#
Then find a good book about it
Then read the book but don't spend too much time on it
Then build stuff and learn as you go

>>38362794
>C
old but overall not that bad as others on your list
>C++
C but with shit on top of it. avoid
>Java
>Python
great way to force shitty programming paradigms on young minds
>C#
hope you like making software only on and for MS Windows
>Ruby
>Perl
Not that bad but they're more of 'scripting' languages than general purpose ones.

>>38362794
>C++, Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, C#
no
use C it's a simple language really good to learn the basics and most languages copy its syntax so it will be easier to learn other languages later
also it's still used in the real world

>>38362646
its not
yous designers who claim theyre leet haxors cause they know how to style a document
bullshit

>>38362877
>no argument whatsoever

>>38362774
Start by learning how to start. If you have a functioning brain, a computer, and an internet connection then you have all you need.

Because only nerds code.

>>38362864
C is pretty fucking difficult for a beginner to learn dude. In itself it's a dinosaur a step above machine language. If a beginner really wants to, learn C++. Autists go hurr overhead but overhead/abstract only makes shit easier and doesnt affect performance much in modern computing. So you're really best off with javascript python or Lua.

>>38362899
i dont need an argument to tell you that aligning some text is not programming
is every kid in school who uses word a developer now

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>>38362995
C++ is an overcomplicated C with all of its fallacies but overall much worse. Python is disgust. Lua is interesting but who uses it?
http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/
>>38363040
But I just said CSS can do more than align text.

>>38362794
I learned Java, C and C++ from classes. Haven't touched Java in 3+ years so I have to refresh myself if I wanted to use it.

My problem is I don't put anything into practice or apply my knowledge so I end up forgetting a lot and having to relearn it. How do you come up with shit to build? Or get the discipline to consistently make stuff? I never made a personal project or studied something programming related on my own volition. I don't know if it's a lack of passion thing or I'm too stuck in this shithole.

>>38362965
>he isn't a nerd

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>>38363353
Isn't there anything you'd like to build, like a game, a bot, some program to make your life easier or whatever
Take a look at pic related

So I have python installed, what do I do now?

>>38363366
How would you even start making a 2d graphical game? I can only get my language to output text to a text file or command prompt

>>38363425
Look up libraries. You're not supposed to know how to do everything.

>>38363469
>Look up libraries.
Where's the fun in that? It feels like cheating as well

>>38361251
I've been going through the course laid out on learncpp.com over the past few months.
I seem to have a knack for this, so far, though I haven't really made anything of substance yet. but I'm definitely getting the idea, at least.
Am I going to need professional credentials, like a degree, to put this knowledge to good use, or can I freelance or whatever as long as I have a solid portfolio on github or something?

>>38363366
saving this compliation for when i feel motivated again, took a c++ class and got an A so some of these should help me refresh if I attempt them

>>38363488
credentials are a good idea, even just an associates from some community college will help, but yeah have a good portfolio definitely

>>38362995
public class something{
public class something something (something [args]){
scanner scan new scanner(something here)
number = scan.nextnumber()
system.print("you introduced number" number!)
}
}

explain all this shit to a beginner, "ignore this ill explain it in 3 months" its only a valid response if you want the student to end up like a retarded indian

>>38363487
m8 you're not supposed to know how to do every single thing, especially when it comes to graphics you HAVE to rely on libraries

>>38363366
All those sound cool and useful but I never know where to start. I think I'm probably just bad at research since I don't know what to look up. Like your example a bot. There's probably a bunch that goes into it. But I don't know what that bunch entails and I can't just google how to make a bot. Or can I and I'm just overthinking it? Same with stuff on there like an IRC Client or Image Converter or even those simple games.

>>38363560
do the easy shit like fizzbuzz and sorting arrays differently first, you gotta climb the latter to get on the roof

>>38361251

I've tried to learn JS and Python. It was a struggle to finish the online courses and obviously i didn't do anything after that so i quickly forgot everything i've learned.
I just can't imagine someone actually enjoys to write code and even does it for free. I guess you have to learn this while being very young and be inspired by it.

>>38363425
Learn to read a file, then learn to draw pixels on the screen.
Then read a sprite(file) and draw the values of the sprite on the screen.

>>38363588
(not him)
yeah but for example
>virtual machine
>emulator
>chatbot
>shazam
even if you're good are you supposed to just know what to do and where to start when taking on these projects? or do you google "how to make a VM" and take it from there

>>38363594
>I just can't imagine someone actually enjoys to write code
it's like painting, but with logic instead of paint

>>38361251
I originally am actually

>>38363601
Isn't it more simple to use graphic libraries

>>38363621
He doesn't want to use existing libraries.

>>38361251
Because I'm not a brainlet.

>>38362037
nice time complexity

>>38363604
virtual machine could be as simple as building a program to accept input like a cash register

and yeah, if you dont know how to start look up how someone else did something and try to learn how and why they did it

>>38362646
those are markup languages you fucking vegetable

>>38363601
>learn to draw pixels on the screen.
Yeah, I'm asking how you even start with this.

>>38361593
>SQL server developer
kek'd

>>38362995
C++ is literally just C with even more features to learn, and they're stupid features

>taking up programming during a programmer surplus
>sharing a hobby with literal faggots who can't leave the house
>entering a field that actively promotes homosexuality, feminism, diversity, and open borders
>entering a field with no barrier to entrance
wew, just saved you thousands of hours so you can learn something practical that will actually get you a job.

>>38363686
you are stupid features

>>38362015
You don't need math much in programming. Just learn C/C++(so you'll understand how a computer actually works, don't listen to the brainlets recommending Python), and do that by e.g. completing this playlist:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6gx4Cwl9DGAKIXv8Yr6nhGJ9Vlcjyymq
Then after that, look for programming projects, and choose the ones you like most. After you're decent in C/C++, learn a different language like Java. Also, don't give up in C/C++, when you start with it it's difficult, but at a time it will become easy. If you can code in C/C++, you can most likely learn every language after you learned one of them. Last but not least, learn OOP(Object Oriented Programming), it is a very important concept in programming.

>>38363601
My language is C btw.

>>38363675
Depends on your OS, it will have some way to change the color of a pixel (you'll have to use a library for the system call though). Here's how you can do it in windows https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vs/alm/dd145078(v=vs.85).aspx

>tfw nobody to teach programming to
>tfw nobody to make a game with

I've made so much already, but none of it matters if you don't share with people and get feedback.
It just stays in your github lost and forgotten.

>>38363777
what are some of the programming projects you worked on and in what language, desu?

>>38363629
But it's tedious as fuck to do stuff pixel by pixel. This is "web development with assembly"-tier

>>38363690

Where the fuck did you learn programming? In the university where I studied software engineering literally everyone was either a robot or nu-male.

>>38363588
I guess that's true. So at what point do you think it just clicks and I become like one of those autists that talk about and do shit involving machine learning and neural networks or whatever other shit that goes beyond sorting and searching. I always feel like a retard listening to them with all their jargon.

>>38363845
SFU (where UBC rejects go)

>>38363801
Mostly C++ and Java. I like C++ more.
I made a linear neural networks library. Tested it on the xor problem and it works perfectly.
I made a few spatial data structure implementations for fast spatial queries. Tested it all of them and compared the results.
I made a fully functional 3D rendering engine using opengl. Though it shit and needs a rewrite.
You know, things you can only appreciate if you're also a programmer.

>>38363880

>Attending uni at Vancouver
Here's where you dun goofed

>>38363898
sounds cool man, wanted to get into 3D stuff myself too but i'm fucking terrible at maths

>>38363912
Yes, it is truly a horrible place to live.

Obviously I am sour about my CS degree and the sub $20/hr employment offers that it awarded me.

>>38363898
how long did it take you to git gud enough to do all this?

>tfw to brainlet to know how to use GNU Leenoox beyond the GUI
I'm still not sure what to do with it. I still can't do anything beyond using IDE's. Literally pajeet tier.

>>38362502
What was your Lang? F77?

>>38361955
good programmers make good things

>>38363673
markup programming languages

>>38361251
i used to be a backend programmer at SAP, i was fat and socially awkward, at least around anyone except friends, everytime someone laugh id feel like it was at me, etc.
not sure how it happened but decided to try and "go normie" to feel happiness and fulfillment, started eating a lot less, started visiting the gym at work when there was barely anyone there, and soon i felt somewhat comfortable at a gym and got a membership for one open 24/7 around where i live so i could go at night when there werent many people around.

some chadgymbro convinced me to quit my job at SAP and start working as a recruiter at the same place he worked, not sure if i said yes because its hard to say no when someone is up in your face or because i wanted to be a happy normie.
worked there for 2 years now and im not one bit happier. i make a lot of money, i learned how to sell, which is basically what we do as recruiters, i learned how to blend in with a crowd of chads and stacies, but nothing feels valuable at all anymore. at least before when i talked to someone i had friends based on who i was, suddenly when i got in great shape and made a lot more money people who had no interest in being friends before want to be friends now. and i do the same thing on my sparetime, i am the same person, but now i qualify for friendship?
just makes me hate normies even more. hate going to work, hate every paycheck i receive, hate being at the gym, everything is shit.
tl;dr
be a programmer, its better

>>38364199
ignore tripcode hadnt removed it, was showing someone how they work who couldnt get it to function

How do I fix a segfault 11 error
When I debug I just get a bunch of assembly and I don't know assembly (yet)

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>making online game in Game Maker Studio
>backend shit written in Python
>learned a little node.js today

feels /comfy/ my d00ds

>>38363683
>what is a stored procedure

>>38364253
I made a Pacman game with that when I was like 10 years old. It had coop and single player game modes too with about ten levels. Good old days

I'm a young software engineer and I'm putting all the money I make mostly into cryptos/stocks/real estate. I'm real cheap, live in a small apartment, drive used Mercedes Benz *it just looks new because it has a giant benz logo in the front but the car is only worth $9,000", every electronic in my house is used including laptops I code on they are from the pawn shop, yet all my stuff looks new but I choose to be smart and do cheap & used. With the money I make from my job, I can easily rent a nice house in the country club area but I'm a smart
humble guy investing for the long run so I can eventually have a mansion with a garage full of cars. I don't mean to brag about my current life and future aspirations, but I recommend everybody on here who has the slightest interest to just go ahead and major in computer science or a relevant engineering field like mechanical or electrical or civil. The money you make is crazy good, and I've been sticking to building these businesses with the cash flow I'm getting from being a software engineer.

>>38364349
what a load of shit m8

>>38364349
cryptos and real-estate is not investing, its speculating.

>tfw computer science major
>tons of dumb hipster shits who pass 3 tutorials on codecademy and think that's all there is to informatic engineering
>once the math and algorythms hits them, they all fail out

every time
if you want to be a programmer take some shitty multimedia course and fuck off

>>38364412
Congrats you're the first fucktard who I've heard say some shit like that. Real estate isn't investing? You're a true Kek.

>>38364421
You don't need math to be a good programmer.
A good computer scientist isn't necessarily a good programmer.

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>>38361955
a bad programmer is satisfied with just getting something to work, no matter what unholy techniques they did to achieve it

a good programmer goes the extra mile and abstracts it, finds way to make it fast, easily readable or even setup an algorithm if possible for automating said method, all within the same time frame.

It's sometimes hard to tell if the programmer is bad simply by looking at the end result. You have to look at how it scales in long term, who uses it, how it handles high stress, etc.

>>38364592
These pictures are amazing.

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>>38364600
If only I had more.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats/

>>38364439
real-estate is speculating. just like gold is speculating, and cryptocurrency is speculating.

>>38364412
speculating is buying and selling in the short to mid term trying to make day-profits. Real estate and cryptos can both be investments depending on the mentality of the buyer

>>38364680
I dont think i single person who has done 10+ hours of theory will make this mistake

>>38363095
This is the first time I've seen heavy complaints about C++. I never used so I assumed it was le C with OOP plus actual libraries. But it looks like the additions are really vague or exclusive, the syntax is verbose, and the error tracing is worse? In that case I'll have to prefer Java from now on, unless you are specifically penetrating the games industry.

Also I know python and lua are awful languages. The point is they are good starter learning tools. I don't think they inherently promote bad practice. Just think about your audience.

>>38363879
It'll never click if you don't spend a considerable amount of time in those fields.

Programming is very general.
It's like going into medicine. There are general doctors, specialized doctors and so forth. You'll usually never encounter a doctor that just knows 'everything' about medicine.

If you want real world AI to click, you need to specialize in that field, since it's way more than just programming involved.

>>38364742
Anyone who's written a basic hello world program wouldn't make that mistake. You'd have to be bordering on mental retardation

>>38364777
Wrong.

>The test was administered twice; once at the beginning, before any instruction at all, and again after three weeks of class.
>The striking thing is that there was virtually no movement at all between the groups from the first to second test.
>Either you had a consistent model in your mind immediately upon first exposure to assignment, the first hurdle in programming - or else you never developed one!

>>38364680
ok, so what's the correct answer?

>>38364816
If a = 10 and b = 20, writing a = b assigns b's value to a, so a = 20 and b = 20

>>38362850
>He fell for the C meme

>>38364830
just double checking that im not retarded

>>38364808
They're all retarded then. If you can't learn something that basic upon first seeing it, you're far below average in terms of intelligence

>>38362850
>hope you like making software only on and for MS Windows
.NET framework has been fully functional on linux for awhile now.

And there's no point in developing anything for apple faggots or obscure OS #129.

>>38361251
Started off with CSS thought it'd be easy
nope literally coding with a different name then i
tried Ruby instructions are to vague
get to making the console say shit and calculate shit instantly give up.
Tried Python Same shit only instead of slowly forcing math down your throat it gives you it right then and there.

Plus if i somehow managed to teach myself how to code I'd be competing against pajeet spaghetti coders master coders and people who have been doing it for years with certifications to prove it.


I'm not a natural coder and the chances of me teaching myself how to code is also very very unlikely.

>>38364948
fuck off GNU shill.
Mono is a solution sure (also cross platform so it works on all unices), but it sucks.

>>38364680

I didn't believe you, but then i showed the question to my technology inept brother and... he answered exactly like in the pic you posted.

I already know how to program. I work as a software developer and I also have some free software projects on the side that I work on.

>>38365281
In all fairness he is technological inept if you're right. If you try asked me about whatever chemical compounds or what happened in Bangladesh in 1953 or how many licks it takes to get the center of a Tootsie Pop I couldn't tell you either.

>>38365414
Yeah but you'd probably not protest the answer when it's eventually given to you

>>38363701
This is wrong on pretty much every level.

Learning C is a good idea. However, I would not recommend C++ to a beginner.
Modern C++ is basically a different language from C: it's super-abstract, the abstractions are mostly shit, the language and stdlib are incredibly complex and the tooling is pretty hard to work with. It won't help you understand how a computer works, though it might help you understand how frustrating the lives of most working programmers are. You'll want to learn it at some point because everyone uses it, but not as a first language. Also, most of it is pure cancer.
C++ is best adopted incrementally, only after you're somewhat proficient in C and only if you have a problem that C++ can help with.

The simplest way to learn how to write actual good C is probably Handmade Hero. Start with the "intro to C" episodes and look up anything you don't understand. If you can make it through 20 or more episodes you're going to end up a better C programmer than most of the retards that get CS degrees nowadays.

OOP is pure cancer. Using objects is fine: some functions are best lumped together with the data they operate on. Architecting your entire program as a collection of objects is pure unadulterated idiocy. Don't orient your program around objects, orient it around data. You know, like a normal fucking person would.

Being good at C also doesn't translate to being good at much else, because everything else is on a higher level. Languages like Lisp and Haskell are on a completely different and much higher level. A Lisp programmer can fairly easily git gud at C because it's a straight downgrade from where they are, but the average C programmer would find Lisp incomprehensible. If you give a single shit about being a good programmer, you should probably grab a copy of SICP or Practical Common Lisp or whatever other Lisp book /g/ recommends today and spend a couple weeks learning it.

>>38365570
>Handmade Hero
Don't you have to pay for that stuff?

>>38365577
https://www.youtube.com/user/handmadeheroarchive/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid
The videos are all free and you don't really need source code access if following along from the start.

>>38365633
So I just have to follow that playlist to the end and I'll be good?

>>38365648
There's zero chance in hell you'll be able to follow it to the end and frankly not much point - it's like 400 videos of low-level game engine programming stuff. But as I said, the first 20-30 videos should, at the very least, help you be a less shitty programmer. It's the kind of stuff nobody will teach you in uni but every half-decent programmer has to know.

>>38365807
Cool, thanks anon.
>400 videos of low-level game engine programming
Sounds comfy

>>38365570
>C
>then LISP
You sure about that? I'd go C -> C++ -> some scripting language -> LISP

>>38366146
Honestly, I think my life would have been 100x better if someone bothered to teach me Lisp before Pascal and C.

>>38366314
I think the perfect order would be C > LISP > OOP > scripting
Imperative and functional paradigms are so different but learning one after the other (starting with imperative) would probably make you a better programmer than 99% of code monkeys out there.

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>>38362466
>your mom is also turing complete

>>38364592
This. High level thinking and long term planning with a focus on making the code easy to maintain and modify are keys. There are a lot of people who get hyper focused on low level details and think they are programming gods for some small detail (this joker >>38362037), but that stuff isn't what a good programmer spends most of their time thinking about.

>>38361251
>go on /po/
>super happy, lots of projects that I can play with when I'm done making them, can even show off my work sometimes, already posted a 5 minute throwaway piece of all things

>go on this thread
>/g/ equivalent of the greeks meme, making shitty games no one will ever want to play or hear about, talk about using meme business "design principles" so you can look smart while pretending it doesn't make your code unnecessarily complicated, feel bad just being on here

>>38363410
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/thinkcspy/index.html

>tfw know how to script and do basic OOP
>never actually built anything outside of euler problems

One day I'll be privileged enough to beg for a job working 80 hours a week coding shit that doesn't even matter.

Is there really any point to using emacs or vim instead of sublime text?

>>38366763
Why is /g/ full of computer nerds?
That's not all technology is about.
It's more about that.

>>38367051
>why is /biz/ full of cryptofags? That's not all business is about

It's the natural tendency of autists to focus on one thing

whats the best free way to learn.took the redpill,on nofap and quite the soda jew and the lazybug.this might be my next step.

>>38361251
But OP, I am.

>>38367051
I actually don't understand what you're trying to say, so I'm going to guess.

>Why is /g/ full of computer nerds? That's not all technology is about.
A guy a while back posted wheels and sticks as examples of "technology" and clearly that was not the intent of the board. There are cultures behind the boards - /r9k/ is technically a place for greentext stories but you wouldn't unironically post feminist Chad be yourself propaganda without expecting to be called out.

>It's more about that
You mean my enthusiasm for folding dead tree skin? I've gotten a lot of good reactions over my work, even though most of it is from following instructions. Even the most normie Chad or Stacy will be impressed by something as simple (if tedious) as golden venture folding. There's no audience for my code though. Normies won't understand or be interested in it and autists will be focused on one-upping anything I actually put effort in. I guess it's the difference between crafting toys and making tools.

>>38367117
>use google to learn about variables, conditionals, loops, etc
>think of something you do that you could automate or a program that would be handy
>automate it
I started out by making a minimalistic image viewer.

Because I'm too dumb, OP.

>>38367117
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/thinkcspy/index.html
Second link lets you code in the browser if you want to be lazy about installing things.

>>38361955
Algorithms and Data Structures.

The 'be confident' of programmers.

>>38361251
>slight brain damage after previous botched suicide attempt
>severe mental illness
>dyslexia
>everyone and their mother is trying to code, so the value of a single programmer is less than it was
>everything is being outsourced to Indians/Chinese

>>38367581
>everyone and their mother is trying to code
Only bullshit web apps and whatnot. Actual programmers are still in demand.
>outsourced
Again, only shit tier projects.

>>38363095
>Python is disgust. Lua is interesting but who uses it?
same people who use python - web and game devs

"Just learn to program bro!" is becoming the new "Just learn a trade bro!" isn't it?

How the fuck do I use a debugger

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>>38367725
Put breakpoint
Run program in debug mode
Debug

What the fuck's so difficult to understand.

>>38367762
How am I supposed to know where my breakpoint should be if I don't know where the error is in the first place

>>38367782
Start from the earliest point in the program that works, my dude.

>>38367782
How do you not know where your error is. Are you writing tests? Are your methods split up in easy to understand and short functions? If a method does more than one thing, it should be split up.

>>38367782
Well, what the fuck *is* the error?

>>38367794
>>38367830
When I run it on my .c file specifying a breakpoint at line 1 it gives me
>error: '/Users/me/my directories' doesn't contain any 'host' platform architectures: x86_64h, x86_64, i386
And when I run it on the a.out executable it tells me
>Current executable set to 'a.out' (x86_64).
but it doesn't do anything even if I type 'run' afterwards.

>>38367905
What in the literal fuck are you doing my nigger? Debuggers are for programs that can actually run.

>>38367905
>programming in C
God help you. I'm out.

>>38367928
Right. But I can run my a.out file.

>>38367830
I was told senior year that it's only worth putting code into a function if you see yourself reusing it in the near future. I get by on commenting out code and print statements for debugging so whatever.

>>38367905
Geany + debugger plugin

>>38367955
>Using debuggers
Pleb

>>38367955
Well I don't know how the fuck C works, but a function should do one thing, like a class should when working in an OO language.

If your one function reads a file and processes the data, it should be split up in a readFile method and processData method. It's just good practice.

But C is a giant clusterfuck and probably none of the common sense good practices count there.

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>>38367983
>C is a giant clusterfuck
>says the OO programmer

>>38367983
I think you make sense, I used to feel the same way
but I've given up on trying to please people
it feels really bad

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>>38368012
>tfw memory management is done automatically
>tfw the standard data structures solve 80% of problems already
>tfw there are tons of useful libraries to already do everything for me with a simple function call

Oh what's that C? Got yourself stuck in a debugging loop trying to find a memory leak again? Oh those pesky pointers to pointers to pointers, huh?

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>>38368039
>he thinks memory management is hard
Better get back to work, Pajeet.

>>38368087
How hard do you think it would be to hold a ball in your left hand for a month? How much would you willing to bet that you could do it?

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>>38368087
Don't forget to free those resources or your program will explode in a few months

>>38368108
Just lay in bed, tape the ball to your hand and sleep. So let's say 1 billion $ to start?

>>38368139
You don't seem like the kind of guy that thinks things through. Also a bit delusional from thinking your time is worth that much.

>>38367938
You probably shouldn't try to use gdb as your first debugger. That's just asking for the universe to slap you in the face with a dick.
That said, this is pretty basic shit. You don't run gdb on your source file, you run it on the executable and set breakpoints using some retarded gdb command I don't recall. Read some documentation or watch a JewTube video or something.

>>38367983
>>38368026
This is some truly shitty EJB-core advice that will 100% fuck you up in the long run. There are only two possible reasons to break shit off into a function:

1. You find yourself needing to use some piece of code in two different places.
2. You have a one-page nightmare of a procedure in the middle of some function and extracting it would make your life easier.

Don't break shit off into functions prematurely. Don't add abstractions you don't need. Don't optimize until you know optimization is needed. Please, for the love of Christ, learn how to code from the people actually getting things done in this shitty industry - not from the Oracle architecture astronauts or the C++ committee.

>>38368039
This isn't even about C. Yeah, C sucks, we know, we're using it anyway, whatever. But don't delude yourself: Java sucks too, and the object-oriented dogma is absolute cancer. Get some perspective before it's too late to save yourself, anon.

>>38368348
>You probably shouldn't try to use gdb as your first debugger
What's a better option?

>>38363524
What do I do if I'm a computer science major and of the 3 compsci classes I've taken, 2 were indian and the other didn't even have a computer science degree?

>>38363690

>programmer surplus

what? all I see around me are companies desperate for good programmers
I'm not in IT, majoring econ and even I'm inclined to learn some programming because it looks like econ will be inseparable from tech in the future

>>38368364
Whatever you can get to work, so you can learn what using a debugger is like. Again, I got Geany + debugging plugins to work pretty quickly. A friend actually ended up using Eclipse with C. Then if you think it's a good feature you'd like to use on a regular basis, install something more bare-bones (gdb).

>>38368420
Apply to internships probably

>>38368364
Something graphical, so you can debug your program without worrying about commands. I'm not really familiar with the Mac dev tools landscape, but you can probably beat Xcode into submission or use an editor plugin or something.

>>38368473
>good
*cheap

What do you already know programming-wise? You might already know more than me as a CS graduate.

>>38368479
>>38368524
I've managed to fix most of the problems I have with lldb but now it tells me it can't find the executable, so whatever.
I'll try something graphical as you guys recommended.

>>38368473
Econ is already inseparable from tech, but unless you have an IQ of 150 and coasted through MIT nobody's going to want to hire you.

>>38363095
Dropbox and Google heavily use Python. I think they know more than you. Python is also heavily used in Data science and has one of the most advanced natural language processing libraries out there

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>>38361251
I still can't install python and jupyter. Don't tell me to use anaconda ffs.

>>38368539
You people always say this kinda thing, but it only applies to shit companies who just need what is effectively manual labor. Short-sighted companies hire 10 cheap developers and their project takes 2 years and works like shit. Intelligent companies hire 3 expensive engineers and their project takes 1 year and works as expected. I've seen this shit so fucking often. You just need to get the experience necessary to work for someone who actually wants skilled engineers

>>38368928
What? Are you on Windows or something?

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>just learn programming bro trust me

>>38362995
Nice bait I guess.

>>38364764
C++ is pretty bad. It's not just C with classes, it's C with layers upon layers upon layers upon layers of really poor, leaky abstractions, templates being the absolute worst. And it's not just that the language sucks - it's that all the people writing C++ abuse the bad features like it's going out of style. Here, take a look at what the C++ world thinks is a reasonable way to build a logging library:
https://github.com/boostorg/log/blob/develop/src/core.cpp

>>38361985
well, at least I'm on track. I'm always looking for ways on how to make modular code

>>38369277
You shouldn't see modularity as a goal in itself. If splitting something off into a module helps you avoid repetition, great. If not, don't. Blindly creating modules for everything is how you get shit like the modern JavaScript ecosystem.

Oh but I am. C

>>38365570
Does that C tutorial require to run Windows?

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>>38367581
>everything is being outsourced to Indians/Chinese
people have been saying this for decades- it's only a threat if you're with a shitty company

either way they'll be begging for you to come back when the outsourced coders fuck their shit up

>>38369743
If you want to follow along, yeah. Casey is a game developer. His kind have been using Windows forever because it used to have better dev tools. Still does, depending on who you ask.
You can just watch it and not follow along though. The concepts he's trying to teach are mostly not Windows-specific.

Does g code count as programming?
Machinist fag here

>>38369872
Following along is the best way to learn though.
Does the software he uses have equivalents or should I just install a VM?

>>38369903
You should install a VM if you intend to go through anything other than the intro videos, which aren't really intended for you to follow along with.

Fortunately, the nice people at Microsoft have suddenly started caring about people like you:
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines

>>38370000
Nice quads. You said that 20 episodes were good to gain a solid understanding, I'm assuming there aren't 20 intro videos right?
Thanks for the link.

>>38370000
Actually, now that I look at that page the (((enterprise))) version is probably crippled and useless. You can probably get the other one and crack it with Microsoft Toolkit or w/e.

>>38370042
You haven't even looked at the damn playlist yet? Stop searching for VMs and watch some videos. You might not even like it.

>>38370059
I have, but I haven't watched any of the vids yet.

Post a pic of something you made so we can judge your skillz.

>>38370093 is meant for >>38369894
can't believe I forgot to click the fucking post number

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>>38370093
Haven't got many photos on my phone so nothing too complex but anything in this picture

I'm learning java and I know a little about some other languages.
I'm mostly using a text book.

I can do school projects (not in school now though) and book exercises. How can I get so good that I can do real projects?
I'm not sure how to progress towards making something anyone would use.

What can I do?
How did you do it?

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>>38370110
Or this one but again nothing fancy

>>38363690
What else could make so able to live in different parts of the world as much as programming?

What's the best IDE?

>>38370297
Do you need to build a WIndows-only desktop application, complete with GUI, fast fast? Visual Studio.

Do you need a language that'll bend over backwards for you when you're learning linear algebra and its applications? MATLAB.

Do you want to devote your life to a poorly paid sweatshop job just so you can make games? Unreal Engine.

As you can see, doing real projects doesn't necessarily make you a better programmer.

>>38370297
Step 1) don't use Java

>>38370305
Are you planning to use these gears for something or just making them for fun?

>>38370465
I plan on trying other languages too but then I'll still just reach this point.

>>38370398
vim

Real answer: depends on the language HEAVILY. But mostly vim

>>38370398
Emacs for Lisps.
Visual Studio for sepples.
Your favourite text editor and a terminal for anything else.

>>38370509
>vim for large projects
Really?

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>>38370506
Honestly, just make shit. Right now I'm making a site that finds the closest location to you that has the weather you want to be in.

Obviously this isn't really something people would use or pay for, but it's something. I'm using it to learn react and keep my python skills sharp. I have another idea for something insanely difficult that also no one would use.

Just get in the habit of making shit, no one comes up with a genius idea for their first one. Get used to making things, going from start to finish, actually completing things for no reason but to prove you can. Then improve on them, forever.

And seriously, I know Java is probably what your school has you learning, and it's what my school had me learning too, but learning things that aren't Java will be the best way to create new things. These days, Java is incredibly stagnant, tons of people use it but only because there's a million shitty Enterprise systems written in it that need maintaining. Rarely are you ever going to hear about a sweet new startup or service that uses Java. Android apps do use Java, but most good apps do most of the heavylifting outside of the app itself.

Again not saying Java is bad, but if you want to be creative and make things, start looking for something else you might want to learn

>>38369091
linux mint but everything is so full of bugs that I wish to go back to the superior windows xp.

>>38370497
Can't remember what the small one was for but the big gear wheels on the floor in the right of the pic where for MMD a big mining company and the parts with a load of holes in the top face in the left corner of the pic where for the challenger 2 tank by BAE systems

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>>38370643
>Debian based distros come with Python installed
>asking how to install Python

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>tfw only know sepples
>tried more commercially viable shit like javascript and python but they just trigger my autism because they are not as perfect as sepples
>if I want to make something useful in sepples it requires too much work to be viable on my own because I'm too much of an aspie for teamwork
whoever thought dynamic typing or syntactic whitespace was a good idea deserves the rope

>>38371087
More like you're an unintelligent autist who can't do anything but criticize, much less actually create. Being obsessed with an obscure language doesn't make you cool or smart

>>38371201
>C++
>obscure
u wot m8

>>38361251
Should I lose hope and just forget if I want to be a sysadmin or shit like that and I am interested in networking and servers and spend my free time pretty much on that stuff but have fucking zero knowledge of programming, is this shit necessary for that kind of stuff? I just never have found it interesting to me.

>>38371254
It's not necessary but it helps. At least learn basic perl and bash to automate tasks

>>38371087
>>38371201
It's not even an obscure language, but restricting yourself to one autistic language is retarded. I had to learn Python from C++ when nobody on my team understood C++.
Learn the meme languages or give up on dreams of success.

>>38361251

I was for a while but I don't know what to do with it, I have no goals. I took a java 1 class, and know Python really roughly, but what can I do with those?
Tfw uncreative

>>38371201
If there is criticism to be made, why wouldn't I make it? I just can't wrap my mind around how people can make large scale applications with those two elements I mentioned.

>>38371285
Problem is not learning them, it's working with them

>>38371274
I already do some basic bash scripts on my own servers I run on free time to automate things, like backups for example, I got really simple scripts to do that. But if we go into programming any real software etc. I have no fucking clue, literally near zero knowledge of programming and I don't know any languages at all. I never just found programming to be the topic of interest for me for some reason and have no patience to learn that

>>38371359
If you just want to do sysadmin then it's fine

>>38371245
>>38371285
Sorry, I don't speak /g/, use real terms if you want to talk about something. Even worse than being obsessed with an obscure language is being obsessed with a bad one one C++.

>>38371334
You can criticize all you want, but don't expect anyone to listen to someone so inexperienced they worship something like C++ without even actually using it ever

>>38371623
t. CS freshman

>>38371623
How is anything I said something a college kid would say? If anything, worshipping babby's first language and having no production experience sounds MUCH more like a CS freshman, or rather dropout, would do. I'd respect you much more if it was at least C

>>38371948
>I'd respect you much more if it was at least C
you just proved you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

>>38371982
Nice response from the loser who's too lazy to use his perfect language to do anything at all. You just like being different. C++ is absolutely useless in 2017. It's slower than C and has less features than C#. Please tell me why C++ is good

>>38372110
>C++ is absolutely useless in 2017
Dude, it's consistently in the top 3 of most used non-web languages for large scale applications, and Java is only more "popular" than it because of the amount of legacy code to maintain.

>>38372110
That post was even more retarded than your previous

>>38372192
Our conversation is over until you make a post with with content in it

>>38372171
I'm not sure why you think C++ isn't in the exact same situation Java is in. It's just sheer numbers of applications that need to be supported and sheer number of people who only know one language. If you're less of a loser than the autist could you explain the advantages of C++ over any alternative?

Alright you Gentoomancers.I learned your bucles, your loopity loops, and your pointers in C. fuck double pointers tho.

My question to you now is. How do you people actually do something interesting or useful like a music player or an image viewer with these tools//knowledge?

>>38372317
You don't. You use someone else's library that already does it.

>>38372265
>why you think C++ isn't in the exact same situation Java is in
Because it's not. Java is mostly used to maintain existing software and develop mobile apps, although it would be stupid to claim that it's used only for that.
C++ is used for different things, but is still very popular, namely in the video game industry and for the development of mission critical software. It's also popular in finance and many fields of research.

>>38372354
And how did these people make those libraries?

>>38372265
c++ is literally c with some syntactic sugar added on top, plus a much larger standard library(that you probably think is part of the language considering you said "it's slower than C", but it is not, hence you don't know what the fuck you're talking about)
c and c++ are literally equivalent in terms of performance, but c++ takes the cake when it comes to scale because it's much safer. Hence, it's used even in the most performance and safety critical projects like the F-35 or the curiosity rover
if all people would care about would be performance, they'd use whatever assembly language for whatever very specialized processor they'd need, but in the real fucking world which appears you have no tangent with, there exist such things as productivity and safety
and c++ is all three, with productivity taking a slight hit because you can't have all 3 in perfect amounts

all in all, you have no fucking idea what the fuck you're talking about

>>38361251
I'm trying, but even the basics are extremely complicated. How do I measure how stuff shows up on the webpage? Like I get things are boxes but when I try to position them they all go in the wrong place and I don't understand why.

programming is for stupid goyim

>>38372506
But I'm a stupid goy and I can't make heads or tails of this shit.

I literally cannot get the fucking IDE to work and compile the "hello world" example it comes with.

>>38372460
It's not just "syntactic sugar". C++ is the world's shittiest, most overengineered and least usable macro system, mated with an abortion of a "standard" "library", bolted onto the rotting carcass of a high-level assembly language intended for OS development, used by everyone from Google's best engineers to your mentally retarded grandfather to write maintenance nightmares riddled with bizarre near-undiagnosable bugs.

>>38372496
learn 2 into flexbox mein negger

>learn the basics of python
>automate some stuff for myself and create some logout utility I use constantly
>stop

I don't know what to do. I am not a programmer, it was just out of curiosity. I am supposed to learn and study for my actual degree, but I forgot everything regarding that.

I'm a shitty nurse and an even shittier programmer. This is hell.

>>38372381
Literally all modern software is written on top of older shit. Unless you wanna make something straight out of the 70s you're gonna be working with other people's code. You CAN completely recreate things yourself but it would be a waste of time and super difficult. Realistically you just take what other people made and improve it.

Those libraries were made from other libraries so on and so on. Even if you used C++ without other people's libraries, you're still using their standard library.

>>38372381
By not being complete idiots, mainly.

>>38372831
1. macros are a c feature you flaming homo
2. using macros is against the vast majority of c++ coding standards
3. the standard library is not part of the language
4. you're a moron

>>38372955
But I feel like a hack taking the easy way out by using stuff I haven't made. Do all programmers do this?

>>38373037
no, don't listen to him
he's retarded

>>38373092
So how should I proceed then

>>38372985
1. I'm not talking about the preprocessor you moron. I'm talking about templates.
2. Of course it is - why would C++ programmers do the sane thing and use macros instead of go on a trip into template hell?
3. Are you retarded or just pretending? Is the STL part of the language or just the standard? These questions keep me up at night.
4. for you ;)

>>38373037
Yes. How do you think we get any work d-- oh.

>>38373159
How did programmers in the past manage to do anything when they had to write everything themselves then

>>38373641
The programmers of the past were people like Dijkstra and Knuth. They don't make 'em like they used to.

>>38373726
Not all programmers were like that. You mean to tell me everyone in the 70s or even 80s/start of the 90s had the knowledge and insight of Knuth?

>>38373805
True, but I feel like there are fewer brilliant programmers nowadays. Mathematics has Tao, we have... who, exactly? Where is he hiding?

>>38373877
>Where is he hiding
In a basement, probably.
But either way, have programmers really become so bad that rewriting libraries is impossible for the average developer?

>>38364311
A trigger, a constraint, hay fucking nigger knows nothing

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too fucking stupid to learn C++

>>38373917
The average developer... is shit.

To make a more serious argument, what do you mean by "libraries"? Most programmers could probably rewrite something like libpng or even SDL from scratch, but good fucking luck rewriting ffmpeg in a single lifetime.

>>38373641
Because everything is 1000x more complicated in the present my dude

>>38374123
>The average developer... is shit
You mean Pajeet who copy/pastes Java without knowing what it does, or actual developers?

When undertaking any worthwhile project, even something small, you have to use someone else's code at some point. I don't mean rewrite fucking everything, but if you're creating a GUI or some sort of networking application (for example) could you really not write it from scratch?

>>38374026
Then don't. Go learn Scheme, it's much easier and will help you become a better programmer instead of fucking your brain up like sepples does.

>>38374179
There must be some people who understand what the fuck is going on even if it's complicated though. Or has software development become so complex that it relies on stuff nobody actually knows the inner workings of?

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Too god damn bad at math to code. Seriously, it's crippling. Instead I focus on design and Google Analytics.

Robots, if you're a brainlet/mathlet like me, start learning to design sites, implement Google Analytics and deliver reports. Got me a great job in marketing.

>>38374201
I don't really see what argument you're trying to make? People write their own GUIs and networking code all the time, especially game developers. It just doesn't usually make sense to do so.

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>>38362435
Both are an essential part of Electron, which is the next big thing in desktop programming.

>>38374582
Memeing or not? Been out of the loop for WAY too long (neet life yay).
Enlighten me.

>>38374582
Please don't. "Electron is not literally the worst idea in the history of mankind" is probably the nicest thing I can say about it.

I tried once. Didn't know where to start and school didn't teach me and I gave up, now I hate computers.

>>38374701
It's literally Node.js and a slightly stripped down version of Chrome mated together with a shitty IPC pipe and some duct tape.
Using Electron is like building a web app, except with an extra V8 instance running in the background for maximum lulz.
As with most webshit things, Microsoft did it before it was cool. They called it "HTML Applications". It sucked then and it sucks even more now.

>>38369351
Fuck JavaScript. I hate everything about it.

>>38361251
I'm too stupid. I've been trying hard for more than 2 years now, I don't have the mental capacity to do more than the most basic of tasks without extensive help.

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>>38374928
>tfw we're stuck with it forever

I started with C around 6 years ago. It was really fun making these simple games with Allegro/SFML.
Then I had to go to the university. Went to a shit one, dropped out.

I'm programming as a hobby. I enjoy making stupid shit noone needs.
The problem is I use Ruby and I can never get hired with my shit knowledge of webdev and common technology stacks. Tried to learn all of this, but there's too much and it all changes all the time.

Currently waiting for 2 companies to offer me a position after solving their tasks.

Programming is one of these things that keep my sanity in check, because when I get absorbed by it, I don't have time to go through the mental hell I have in my head.

(How can I learn webdev shit efficiently? I really need to get hired.)

>>38375335
Oh, yeah. I'm pretty bad at maths; my life achievement would probably be passing university-level calculus.

Also, I don't really like Python. Too much magic, the ecosystem seems shit... I once had to do data science stuff and it was a pain, I had Anaconda breaking up on me.
(I'm also not intelligent enough to be good at data science I guess).

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>>38375378
If you think Python contains too much magic, boy, you're really not going to like modern JavaScript...

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>>38375518
What the actual fuck is that.

So unoriginal.

>>38362774
inb4 people who learnt programming in school/collage (and the extremely rare real successul self-taught) tell you to just go to a library

because I'm learning netsec instead, faggot

>>38375628
>implying college teaches you programming
Maybe if you go to MIT or something. Everyone else is self-taught.

Also, why the fuck would we tell anyone to go to a library? Do people still not know libgen exists?

>>38361251
still need years of experience to get a job

>>38374223
Most developers only understand the one or rarely two layers below what they work with daily. Often, the dont even fully understand ONE layer beneath. For instance, a backend web developer using .net might know about the language constructs of c#, understand how garbage collection works, understand when an argumemt will be passed by value vs passed by reference, how generics work, etc...

BUT, they probably have only but a vague idea of when an object is initiated on the stack vs on the heap, when automatic boxing/unboxing occours, how the processor loads a value, what the instruction pointer is. There is something like 15 different layers that make up an operating system runtime, and the vast majority know next to nothing about it. I'm not even saying this to imply they are stupid or lazy. It's just a fuckton of stuff to learn.

It's not that we rely on something nobody knows anymore, but that everybody relies on things they don't understand.

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so why aren't you learning how to read hieroglyphs, /r9k/?

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Can you get a job or freelance with it tough?

>>38368857
>just because someone wrote a good library it makes the language good