Edgy Atheists Go Home

most likely when their brand of atheism becomes the hip, trendy thing

>>38130365
25% of people in the US are non-religious. isn't that enough?

there's no effective difference between the two. Deists don't believe God has any influence on the world except for the initial spark.

>>38130408
>no difference
>deists believe in a god
>atheists don't believe in a god.
?

Who gives a shit if there is a god or isn't, why does it even matter.

>>38130399
Most of the nones believe in God. They just don't go to church
.>>38130184
I'm an atheist but pretend to be christian. Most people don't take religion seriously. As they say never tAke just one southern Baptist on a fishing trip. He'll drink up all
Your beer

>>38130438
It doesn't change anything about your beliefs, whether practical or abstract, outside of this one tiny philosophical circlejerk. Both atheists and diests believe the clock moves on its own - diests just believe there was a clockmaker to start.

>>38130399
right, but most of those people don't really care and just call themselves atheists. the type of atheist i believe OP is referring to are the kind that have basically made a religion out of shitting on christianity. my point was that their particular view of things will likely not catch on with any large portion of the population, and thus they will never learn that they're wrong.

>>38130482
what's the difference between a baptist and a catholic?

catholics greet each other in the liquor store.

Whats the deal with christians coming to 4chan? Thats like a priest walking into a gay nightclub and bitching about everything. Fuck off no one cares about your bullshit.

>>38130549
OP's a deist, not a christian. deists are aight.

>>38130549
People are just naturally religious, most people who are religious on 4Chan have probably never been to church and might not even consider themselves Christians.

I will accept I am wrong when,

>I die and God's existence is confirmed through my experience

or

>We scientifically conclude that God exists and it's confirmed over and over again

It is a possibility I am wrong, but that's just the way it goes.

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>>38130365
Atheism is already the hip and trendy thing in most Western Countries. Atheists are certainly the majority in the UK, and if you group people that don't actively practice their religion in the bracket of 'atheist' then atheists are a huge majority in the UK. Christians under 50 in the UK are basically non-existent. I only know two open Christians.

Atheists like to act like they're a minority because it plays into their "help religion is oppressing me" victim complex.

>>38130683
yeah, that's pretty true. i figure, with what theology i know (used to be a jesus person) that there's actually a really small minority of people on the planet that could be considered "true" christians

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>who else Buddhist here?

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>>38130679
If God were to exist then he obviously exists outside of our physical laws. So saying that you will believe in him if you can scientifically conclude that he exists is like saying that you will believe in air when you can see it. You can't measure something that exists outside the physical constraints of the universe with equipment that can only measure things that exist within our physical reality.

>>38130744
interested, but don't know much about it

>>38130616
You really don't have to go to church to be religious. Like, at all. All you have to do is believe and be good. That's it.

>>38130679
There is scientific evidence god exists. The multiverse means that whatever can happen, will happen and has happened. This means the singularity has already happened in some time and some place. An infinite intelligence that can alter space and time itself, aka GOD.

>>38130485
This. Unless there is a God who you can pray to or who sends people to heaven or hell then it doesn't matter.


Functionally, most young people today are apatheists. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

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>>38130738
True. It always makes me laugh when atheists act like they're the underdog and that they're the odd one out.

There is a review at the front of The God Delusion that says "this book is good for anyone that wants to come out as atheist, but is too scared to do so for fear of societal rejection", or something to that effect. Which is obviously stupid because atheism is the status quo.

>>38130480
It could cost you your eternity.

>>38130794

Your response only further solidifies my belief that we cannot find any proper evidence for God.

>>38130837

You have to expand more on that. So you're saying that God exists due to the allowance of multiple possibilities? That differs from the Christian ideal that God exists merely because he exists and that he created the universe with purpose.

>>38130837
>"All you have to do is believe and be good. That's it"
>Protestants actually believe this

>>38130184
>When will atheists finally learn that they're wrong?
When you (or any theist) can offer
A) evidence that God/Gods exist
or
B) any reason to think that faith (belief without evidence) is a good thing

Theists have had 10,000+ years and still come up with neither lmao

>>38130888
>Your response only further solidifies my belief that we cannot find any proper evidence for God.

You've completely misunderstood my point.

>>38130876
Prove that there's an eternity first.

>>38130876
so could wearing polyester

No one can agree on what 'God' or 'gods' actually are. It is pointless to argue about a being whose nature nobody can define.


To be fair to edgy atheists the reasons the average theist gives for believing are absolutely retarded 'because of faith' or 'because the bible say so' are bad arguments.


A more interesting and clear question is something like: what happens when we die? Does our consciousness end? That's something clear that we can argue about.

>>38130927
The universe exists and something that existed had to have a creator and so there must be a God.

>>38130931
What do you mean?

>>38130910
A very quick Google search or a 5 minute conversation with a moderately intelligent religious person would yield an answer to both of those questions. Being ignorant of a subject doesn't make you right.

>>38130926

I don't think I did, since you said,

>If God were to exist then he obviously exists outside of our physical laws. So saying that you will believe in him if you can scientifically conclude that he exists is like saying that you will believe in air when you can see it. You can't measure something that exists outside the physical constraints of the universe with equipment that can only measure things that exist within our physical reality.

Which coincides with my belief that we can't find proper evidence of God. Since you yourself said he exists outside of physical laws and is therefore undetectable.

>>38130888
>That differs from the Christian ideal that God exists merely because he exists and that he created the universe with purpose.
Our universe anon. OUR universe.
Not to mention that the bible was written by man, not God. The bible is not literal and the quicker you grasp the concept the better.

Do you under the concept of the multiverse and the 5th dimension? Do you understand the concept of the singularity? Combine the two and you get God.

>>38130679
>We scientifically conclude that God exists and it's confirmed over and over again
I can try to give evidence for him using logic.
t. Thomas Aquinas

>>38130854
>atheism is the status quo

Atheism is the status quo only in Western Europe. Seriously, I have lived in Southern Illinois and being non-religious there is not an option.

Also, 90% of the planet claim to believe in some sort of God. The totality of the word is not your lived experience.

>>38130968
leviticus, i believe. don't remember the number. even when i was a christian, i didn't really stray in to leviticus. doesn't really matter, though; i was joking.

>>38130927
>>38130968
You didn't even respond to my challenge. So what if the universe was created by something? Still doesn't prove that we exist for all eternity in some conscious form. You've gotta be LARPing.

>>38130854
Yeah go to the fucking south you fucking retard, some kids get thrown in the fucking street for being atheist. God you fucking mongoloid retard, the world isn't that fucking simple.

>>38130997
Ah, I know what you mean but then again OT laws were done away with and were only set up to represent something.

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>>38130974
No, you don't understand my point, let me make a comparison.

>I can't see air therefore it doesn't exist
>"Air cannot be seen"
>Your response only further solidifies my belief that we cannot find any proper evidence for air

>>38131009
do they really? i live there, haven't seen any street-throwing yet.

>>38130968
>something that existed had to have a creator
Why?
>Therefore the must be God
Why is God automatically the solution to the cause of the universe?

>>38130992
>I have lived in Southern Illinois and being non-religious there is not an option.
>The totality of the word is not your lived experience.

>>38131020
the OT still fascinates me, even now in my atheism. it was basically the first medical textbook. all those stupid rules in leviticus would have kept a lot of diseases out of a pre-modern society

>>38131009
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said atheists have a "victimhood complex"

You're no different to "da white man keeping me down"

>>38131007
So what if the universe was created by something? Still doesn't prove that we exist for all eternity in some conscious form.
That's the thing about proving "a" god. When proving god's existence, you can only prove the existence of "a" god not "the" God. That's why even Muslims use the same arguments that a Christian philosopher named Thomas Aquinas.

Also, what do you mean by "prove there's infinity"? The universe is infinitely big.

>>38131051
I was giving an example of a place in the English speaking world where Dawkin's work is needed. I wasn't saying they world was like Southern Illinois.

The 90% is a fact. The point is that most of the world have religious views.

>>38130184
Have you ever held a serious conviction in your life? You seem to more concerned with how you're perceived.

>>38130972
I've been studying religion for decades and not found a satisfying answer that doesn't boil down to "muh faith".
Telling me that it's on google is not an argument.

>>38131038
>Why?
A cause must have a first cause to cause that

>Why is God automatically the solution to the cause of the universe?
Because whoever created this realm of existence must be above what is created. So since time is something that is created in this universe, then that being must be timeless. Because the universe is infinitely big yet keeps on expanding then this being has to be infinite.

>>38131111
>I live in a part of the world that is completely devoid of any religious identity and is almost entirely inhabited by atheists, but because a bunch of people I've never met in the armpit of Africa and in Whogivesafuckistan are religious that means I'm part of the rebellious minority and I'm being oppressed.

>>38131081
>all those stupid rules
>kept a lot of diseases out of a pre-modern society
How were they stupid of they kept diseases out of pre-modern society?

>>38131128
You're only being dishonest with yourself.

>>38131178
my apologies. i meant stupid by our modern standards. stupid was the wrong word, though

>>38131177
>I live in a part of the world that is completely devoid of any religious identity and is almost entirely inhabited by atheists
But do you though? There is literally no such thing.

>>38131219
Very compelling point senpai. I've been absolutely BTFO.

>>38130876
No dude ur wrong god understands our disbelief in him. He understands>>38130888
all concepts and would not reject ur soul for contemplating ur own existence

>>38131235
Well, still, even by modern standards it still can't be considered stupid if it was able to keep out diseases. How are you defining stupid? There was a time when washing hands seemed stupid and the guy that suggested people do it was even mocked.

Also, it sounds like you were at one time a Christian. If so is there a particular reason as to why you left?

>>38130184
Is deism basically based on this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

>>38131301
Pascal wager would never work since it implies there is only one religion in the entire world. But there are literally millions to choose from, and even newer ones are sprouting out every day. And if the source of your faith is from probability, you've got one heck of a problem.

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>>38131249
Yes there is. In the UK, vast majority of parents don't teach their children their religion (because they have no faith themselves), religion has been stripped from every public institution (with the exception of a few CofE and RC schools, and even they have to accommodate the irreligious and are very limited on what religious teachings they can teach). Most of the UK population is either irreligious, or doesn't practice their 'religion', and most of the churches are empty.

The UK is not a religious country in the slightest. This is also the case with most Western European countries and huge parts of the US.

People that claim the whole world is religious are totally ignorant of the world around them, and like to make themselves seem like the victim by pretending religion is the status quo.

>>38131289
That's where you're wrong. God has clearly made his existence known yet people still reject it.

>For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Romans 1:19

>>38131297
yeah, i'm sorry, i didn't phrase that the way i should have. the leviticus codes were not stupid at all.

as to you second question, it wasn't really "i used to be a christian" as it was "i used to think i was a christian". for all my time with the church, i don't think there's an ounce of faith in me (or a mustard seed, if you will). i don't remember exactly why i gave up the faith, actually. i guess i realized that i had no faith.

>>38130184
I had an "edgy atheist" phase in my teenage years. Now, I believe there probably is a creator of the Universe, but it's something completely outside our comprehension. I don't believe in the kind of God that cares for each human individually.
Still, there are doubts... Where did that God come from? It must've had a beginning too. Then that creator must've had a creator too, and so on.
Or maybe the Universe itself is "God". That can work too.
So I don't know what cool hip label to slap on myself so I can look hella cool online. I don't care anyway.

>>38131338
I'm agnostic rn just for context.

I don't think it necessarily implies a single religion, just as Deism doesn't specify either. I think the two are definable compatible.

What is the issue with choosing to be faithful based on probability?

>>38131379
>Where did that God come from?

If God does exist then he exists outside of the physical limitations of the universe. The universe has to have a beginning because our laws of physics work around causality. God is not confined to these physical laws, so causality does not apply to him, so he does not have to have a creator. This is why the universe must have a creator but the creator does have to have a creator-creator.

>>38131357
You've misunderstood. I personally live in the UK and you might not know it, but even chavs believe in God. They just choose to ignore it. You'll be surprised by how seriously they take it once they believe they've committed an unforgivable sin. In fact, there was a study done that put religious people alongside non-religious people, and they were told to scream out blasphemous phrases. While being detected, both showed equal signs of discomfort and year when told to shout out the blasphemous phrases.

>>38130184
>atheism is uncool so now I'm a deist
what kind of stupid hipster shit is this

>>38131420
>I'm agnostic rn just for context.
Ok, that's a step better than atheist.

>What is the issue with choosing to be faithfully based on probability?
I outlined earlier why. It implies that there is only one religion and then there's atheism. But really there are tons, and if you decide to choose God, then you now have to choose a religion. And if you choose a religion by probability then you have a whole bunch to choose from, and you're better off putting your life savings on the roulette wheel.

>>38131372
I used to be like that, but all I did is jus confess to God and show him my weakness. Just have trust in God that he will work and also be sure to be patient and trust that God will hold up his end.

>>38131472
>Chavs believe in god but don't practice it

Wow, I never realised how devoutly religious this country was.

Here are some sources that show the UK is majority atheist / non-practising:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/12/uk-one-of-worlds-least-religious-countries-survey-finds
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/06/24/british-youth-reject-religion/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/23/no-religion-outnumber-christians-england-wales-study

Here's a fun game you can play. Ask anybody under 50 to quote scripture and see what happens.

>>38131597
All those sources don't say that they don't believe in God but rather that people are less religious. But look at what I and the scripture I gave. I never said that they were religious just that they believe in God, something that all civilisations have believed since the dawn of time. None of this refutes Romans 1.19.

Everyone believes in God just that some don't practise it.

>>38131028

But air is not the same as the concept of God existing. Oxygen is what allows me to stay alive and if God were real would be a product of his creation. It's not even about seeing something since our five senses alone cannot determine reality.

>>38131576
i like muh atheism though. i'm a more morally upright person now than i was as a christian. i understand that's not usually how it goes, but the irony there keeps me cautious about christianity

>>38131440
If his "dimension" has no causality, wouldn't that imply that God can know everything in the past and in the future?

I'm agnostic, and the thing about religion that stops me believing is that as well as there being thousands of religions, the bigger ones, such as Christianity, can't even decide among themselves what God wants, so the bigger religions have splintered into many groups, such as Catholics, Protestants, etc. If religious people can't even decide among themselves what's true, then who am I supposed to believe? If I decided to convert to a religion, how would I know that it's the true faith?

>>38131769
>I'm a more morally upright person now than I was as a Christian.
I think it's more due to you not understanding the Christian scripture. We do everything in love. In most religions it normally follows the linear pattern of we believes in God, then we do good works for him then he rewards us for our efforts. But in Christianity, we believe that we are already going to heaven, and so when we do good works it isn't to seem good to God or man, but we do it out of love. I mean even if a Christian went on a rampage, raping and killing people, he would still go to heaven but due to the love that God has put in us, we do our good works out of love and not an obligation.

>>38131741
The point is that you are using a framework that is set to fail. Saying that physical proof of god is the only way to believe in god is the same assaying that seeing air is the only way to believe it exists.

I'm not saying air is like god, I'm saying that sticking an arbitrary definition on the existence of something is intellectually disingenuous.

>>38131886
yeah i understand the scriptures better now than i ever have. i still have a lot of apprehension about the church, though. perhaps one day the time will come again for me to re-enter the church, but for now, this is the season of life i am in. live in the moment, right? worry not about tomorrow

>>38132043
no, only been to one catholic service in my life. spent most of my time in non-denom, and now my family goes to an anglican church. i like the anglicans, they've got a very graceful way of going about christianity. anglicanism requires a lot of devotion, though, and like i said, i don't have any devotion.

my lack of faith doesn't bother me. i think i might have been making it seem like i want to go back, but am afraid to. i've enjoyed the freedom that's come with being outside the church. not sinful freedom, either; like i said, i'm a more morally upstanding person now. about the only thing god will be able to nab me for on judgment day will be my unbelief.

>>38131092
"Eternity" =/= "infinity". The universe is not infinitely big either. It's infinitely expanding, but that functionally reduces the size of the observable universe. Eternity refers to your direct verbiage implying that the other anon has an infinite afterlife. Aquinas was an idiot by the way.

>>38131942

I do not believe that at this point we can provide proper proof of God in the worldly sense. But if we go by your logic, then shouldn't Christians just try to stop convincing others that God exists then? Don't deny it happens, Christians all the time try to 'prove' God's existence in debates.

>>38131289
Did not mean to add that other guy

>>38132319
Ah, I was confused a bit by it.

>>38131886
I respect ur belief in Christ. I do believe he was God's child but as in we are all God's children. Christ was just a beautifully intelligent man who saw the way to rrue happiness and moral salvation. I'm with u on that. I just don't believe God will turn away non believers if they are still good people

>>38132386
>>38132333
Yeah I can see how that's confusing

>>38132285
>Eternity
noun
infinite or unending time.

>infinity
noun
the state or quality of being infinite.

>Aquinas was an idiot by the way.
How so? Also, you shouldn't just use that word so loosely and to use for people who disagree with your point of view. He was, in fact, a very intelligent man and one of the greatest Christian scholars of all time. If he's an idiot after writing books written centuries ago and still in use today then what are you?

Also, if you believe in no god then you still do believe in some type of infinity. Feel free to ask why.

>>38132386
>we are all God's children.
I believe this to an extent.

>I just don't believe God will turn away non-believers if they are still good people
You can't be good outside of God. This would raise the question, to who standards are you good to?

>>38132240
>the only thing God will be able to nab me for on judgment day will be my unbelief.
It's gonna be far moe than that. Humans are naturally sinful, and you aren't perfect. Are you telling me you never sin or even have a negative or evil thought in your head? This is more unbelievable considering the fact that you browse this site.

>>38132618
jesus had "sinful thoughts" too, man. temptation isn't temptation unless you take it seriously.

>>38131830
>there being thousands of religions,
What I usually say this is this:

Think of it this way. Let's say you wanted to know what 1 add 1 is. What you would do is, of course, add the two together. After finding out that the answer is 2 would you then go on to say, is there another answer? I'd assume no. Now that you know the answer is two you wouldn't go out anywhere else to find out the answer since you have already found it here.

This is the way I see Christianity. Christ is the answer, and I do not need to look anywhere else and since the answer has told me he is the way the truth and the light and no one can come to the father unless through him. I do not need to go anywhere else. Although I do anyway to understand other people's opinions so I can better understand their position and relate to them like for example Muslims and what not.

>>38132716
>jesus had "sinful thoughts" too, man.
No, he did not. If he even sinned once, then he would not have been good enough to take away out sins. The sacrifice that was supposed to happen o the cross had to be a sinless one.

>temptation isn't temptation unless you take it seriously.
I think you've misunderstood. Even if I say to God lift up this chair to prove you exist that counts as tempting God, something that we are commanded not to do.

>Ye shall not tempt Jehovah your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
Deuteronomy 6:16

In fact, if I told you to murder somebody, even though you have not even the slightest intention of doing so, it would count as tempting. But since the devil attempted to test God in the Bible he failed since Christ was a perfect being who could not be tempted.

>>38132860
my point was that just thinking about something can't be a sin, because temptation requires that the tempted take the offer seriously. if jesus had simply rebuked the devil in the wilderness, it wouldn't have been temptation, it would have just been jesus saying "yo man fuck off". but the scripture says that jesus was tempted, which means jesus had to think "hey this might not be such a bad idea. wait no it is a bad idea." and then say "yo man fuck off"

Everyone is wrong because OP says so. Pack it up atheists, you've been BTFO'd by a masterful argument.

>>38132982
can't argue with that. time to go kill myself. maybe i'll meet god

>>38132942
>my point was that just thinking about something can't be a sin
But it is. Having sinful thoughts is a sign of a sinful man. A truly perfect man would never even have a sinful thought because he is perfect.

>if Jesus had simply rebuked the devil in the wilderness
He did, after every single attempt the devil made to tempt Jesus, Jesus just refuted him and rebuked him.

> the scripture says that Jesus was tempted
Ok, first we must understand what was the point of that story what was the theme and the overall all message of it.

Jesus was basically sent down to do what no man ever has done. To fulfil the law.

>Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them.
Matthew 5:17

He was to live the life that all failed too. From Adam to Jesus no one was able to fulfil the law. They all stumbled at some point and sinned against God. Moses was a muderer, David committed adultery and Solomon had a harem of women. All these people failed to keep god's commandments fully, and so al failed to inherit the eternal salvation. And one has to remember all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god.

>for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23

So then how can anyone ever enter heaven if we have already lost the battle before it has begun? Well, that;s where Christ comes in. He lived that life no one else could and went through what humans went through. You see it's easy for God to say he loves us and cares for us and has compassion, but for him to actually come down and live the life we were supposed to live and then give it up so that us, a sinful people, could be saved and reunited with him.

And so with the story of Jesus being tempted. He was going through what human go through every day and passing the test so that when he died, and we believed in him then it would be as though we had fulfilled the law and thus suitable for heaven.

Hope that answered your question.

>>38132554
God is all knowing. He would know then when he created us some will question things. He knew people will question him. It's all part of a plan we cannot perceive. What I'm saying is why would he create life only to condem it

>>38131702
Pfft. I don't believe in G-d. Fuck you, Paul.

>>38133425
>He would know then when he created us some will question things.
Yeah, but the thing is people deceive themselves. All people know God exists, but some just try to hide it.

>What I'm saying is why would he create life only to condemn it
It's all for his glory. Everything that has happened or ever will happen in history was all for god's glory. God predestines things which he deems fit and glorifies him, and we are merely playing out his plan.

>>38133458
Yes, you do. Literally, everyone believes in God. Atheists don't exist!