Anyone here a muslim? if so do you really think your religion

the biggest issue with islam is the Surah 9. It has too many open-ended commands to wage war. Yes, a lot of the other surahs like Surah 8 are violent but they're done in the past (battle of badr).

It will take another 50-60 years to force a paradigm shift in the clergy. The lines basically need to be revised and/or officially declared no longer applicable.

>>37511017
>Surah
Naw it's the hadiths

Also there have been tons of fatwas against terrorism etc and nothing happens

It's kind of naive to suggest that there will be a paradigm shift

>>37511017
What if it never experiences a paradigm shift? Just because it happened to christianity, doesn't mean it will happen to islam.

>>37511051
>What if it never experiences a paradigm shift?
It will because it's imperative for Islam's future existence.

The only reason ISIS exists is because we allow it too. But more and more muslims are starting to realize that ISIS is a huge problem. Eventually the sheer amount of negative attention will force a huge shift in thinking. I'm not saying we'll end up with real Islam. We'll end up with a psuedo-Islam that can at least grapple with problems in 2050.

>>37511051
Not any of the guys above.

But the infighting between Sunni and every other sect of Islam is really similar to when Catholicism was beating down all the Christian sects in the West.

>>37511043
>Naw it's the hadiths

I used to think this. But the quran itself allows itself to be interpreted in negative ways. And that's partly because the quran IS negative against the unbeliever.

>>37510912
i'm muslim and yes our religion is peaceful however it's not pacifist. god clearly tells us in 60:8 never to harm the innocent. as for those who do then they deserve nothing but the sword.
no I don't want to kill the [innocent] unbelievers. islam teaches us freedom of faith. and I'm saddened by so called "islamic" terrorist attacks on civilians. but on the other hand I don't forget the ongoing western terror on the muslim world that has killed much more civillians than "muslim" terrorists ever dreamed to be.

>>37511116
That doesn't mean anything. How long did it take to get from Martin Luther to peace of Westphalia? Meanwhile sunnis and shias have been fighting almost since Mohammed's death.
You have to take into account the difference between europeans and arabs.
I think islam will only be reformed if europeans adopt it.

Why can't you guys just be more bro like the sikhs, why'd you have to be violent and rapey

>>37511051

If Islam wont shift it will die out, at least in the western world.

More and more people leave Islam or simply dont give a fuck about it rules because they realize that it is an way of life which you simply cannot practise in a western society like europe or the US.

Prime Example: Alcohol

I had 4 Muslims in my Class. They had two options: Either completely be isolated because all we did in our free time was drinking/go to partys or ignore Islam and its rules and go with us.
They chose the latter.

>>37511170
This is a really simplistic analysis of the quran that ignores so many lines. But I will say this is the kind of islam I'm talking about in >>37511101. It's a psuedo-islam that will be able to interface with the world. At the moment, it's pure theory, but in the future, it'll be codified with explicit neutralization of key quranic lines. Lines like 9:29 will be seen as "non-applicable" or unworkable.

>>37511252
No one has ever cared about alcohol. Look up arak.

>>37511252
>Prime Example: Alcohol
there's a lot of people who don't drink alchohol. It tastes like shit bro.

That's actually the easiest thing to avoid as a muslim. The parts that are hardest to maintain would be avoidance of fornication. Christians have the same problem.

>>37511252
With the demographics being what they are, I really doubt Islam is at danger of dying out.
As far as alcohol and drugs, most muslims don't care I think. My muslim classmates were biggest chads, going out drinking and smoking. They still observed ramadan though and still identified as muslims.
Maybe later in life they would become more strict with that, but I think the relationship with alcohol is too superficial to judge how moderate modern islam is on the basis of it.

>>37511017
The biggest issue with Islam is the power hungry imams and mullahs and muttatas and the fact that everyone's got to be in charge. Neighborhood to neighborhood you can't stop fucking fighting each other to be king of whatever backward filthy smelly mound of sand you live on. Americans are utterly brain dead for getting in the middle of it. Killing Saddam was the worst mistake in history. Fucking kill each other, then kill yourself.

I honestly don't understand how someone can be on 4chan of all places and still be a muslim

All muslims are terrorists, they should all be killed like animals they are. Stop ruining the world, ty.

>>37511170
Hello my fellow musbro , reading this made my day

Ramadan mubarak

>>37511437
>I honestly don't understand how someone can be on 4chan of all places and still be a muslim

you have low IQ then. 4chan is the epicenter of internet culture. In order to understand the trajectory of the youth (and future adults), you have to come here, even if it means wading through the depravity.

Now if you told me "I don't understand why a muslim is on youporn" then yes, you would have a point.

>>37511503
>Now if you told me "I don't understand why a muslim is on youporn" then yes, you would have a point.
Actually that's perfectly understandable, muslims still have urges and very few even follow the doctrine properly
Maybe I'm just out of touch with current 4chan users, but I would think spending enough time on the internet in general should make you doubt your faith

>>37510912
Yes.
No, none is. At least not the abrahamic ones.
No, but they tried to kill me plenty of times.

>>37511170
And with that thinking is why we and every other country is at the middle east because with that single thought another 1,000 of you want to take up arms and go enriching the west killing,raping, and destroying our cultures.

Inb4 muh oil

>>37512918
Christianity is a religion of peace though.

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Muslim here.

I've been trying to muster the courage to join Hezbollah because I want to send Nasibis and Zionists to Hell.

I view Christians as brothers though. Zoroastrians are both misguided but living history at the same time.

>>37510912
I'm a muslim and I hate those terrorists who give bad name to Islam, Shias aren't Islam.

>>37511252

This COULD happen if you guys cut off the welfare payments. Most Muslims are pretty chill here in the US because we actually force them to be part of society instead of paying them to sit in council houses pretending they're still in their old countries.

>>37513184
Not in doctrine. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have passages and commandments that both condone lots of terrible behavior but also ones that condemn the same. You can cherry pick whatever you want from either religion. The difference is in practice: most Christians don't really take their scripture seriously (otherwise they would be stoning gays, burning down banks etc.) Muslims tend to be from poorer, less hopeful, less educated - and plainly - less intelligent countries. They don't have the luxury of ignoring their religion because then they would be confronted with how shit everything is. The positions were reversed plenty of times between East/West, Christianity/Islam etc. Secularism is a privilege of the educated and prosperous. It's a difference in application, not really doctrine.

Just look at poor Christians countries in Africa: stoning and burning gays, witch-hunts, killing non-Christians etc. etc.

Pretty much all white Muslim populations are secular and progressive, pretty much all black Christian minorities are xenophobic and fundamentalist.

>>37512918
>1,000 of you want to take up arms and go enriching the west killing,raping, and destroying our cultures.
>inb4 muh oil
Are you seriously saying that the US presence in the middle east for the past 50 years was altruistic?

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>>37513296

>Sunnis massacre Christians/Westerners constantly
>Shia militias actively fighting ISIS
>Hey kuffar, it's the Shias you have to worry about

>>37513357
Christian doctrine is peaceful the roman catholic church is a corrupt political organization.
Islam is violent at its core.

>>37513331
>Most Muslims are pretty chill here in the US because we actually force them to be part of society instead of paying them to sit in council houses pretending they're still in their old countries.
Literally every member of my family that lives in Europe works a respectable job: engineer, police officer, nurse etc. Literally every member of my family that emigrated to the US is the same way.
You can force lazy people to work for decades and it is still bound to not work. Just look at gypsies.

>>37513390
>catholic church is a corrupt political organization
According to Catholic doctrine it is the rightful continuation of Jesus's will on this earth, is God corrupt?

>"Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all, old and young, girls and women and little children."
>"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
>ect. ect.

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Why are MOOZLUMS so violent?
>drones a school with 300 children
I mean like we've shown them nothing but tolerance
>destroys a medical facility providing half of Sudan's drugs
It's their RELIGION that's the problem
>sells $100,000,000,000 worth of weapons to ISIS
Why do they keep attacking us?
>dumps nuclear waste on Somalia's coast giving them radiation poisoning


Oh golly wee I wonder that sometimes too

>>37513374
I don't know about that but you see most of the Arab World (which mostly Sunni) are cutting ties with Qatar who suspected to support ISIS
I'm not really a devout muslim but atleast I don't force my belief to anyone

>>37513357
Our agencies are always stopping hidden terrorist cells that don't even go public. And a 100% of the time it's because I quote "The West ((has)) destroyed our homes and life style and we (Islamic terrorist group) will take up arms and murder,pillage, and destroy our enemies!!
Every God damn time I have read an article or watched in then news why some foreign nut went on a killing mission, it is because of that reason. You see the US doesn't like to give credit to the countries that these terrorist come from (all coming from the middle east) so we keep it very hush hush.

>>37513454
No the church is wrong. Just because they claim something doesnt mean its correct.
Jewish fairytails and volcano demon worship dont matter i am talking about christianity here.
Also funny how your best argument is always
>but look what this millenia old jewish text says. This is as bad as killing children two weeks ago

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My wife is one.

It's been a fucking trip. Always having to reassure her that no, her dad isn't going to have a heart attack merely because she disappointed him.

We kinda met halfway and have been going to the Egyptian Orthodox church in our city. I'm from a liberal Protestant background so it's been a real trip, like we're stepping back in time whenever we go into the church.

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Gooood Goyim. Slaughter each other instead of blaming us.

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What is with the Liberal/Muslim alliance?

Is it just pandering for votes(since most of their existing constituents are pretty sterile) or is there something more sinister at work here?

>>37514263
Faith in humanity

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>>37514281

Is that right?

You're importing people who hate everything you believe in. (See: the Pulse Nightclub shooting in Orlando) You make excuse for religious uniforms.

Christians still get screeched at every time they say something "bigoted", however...

>>37510912
Game more than 2 sects. You can't

>>37513357
Old Testament is just a history of the Jews, the new Testament woods clean the old traditions

>>37513242
It was the Zoroastrians that where Jesus was born

>>37511170
Yeah, fuck off shitskin. Your people hurt mine, we'll bomb your children. For every person you take, we'll kill a hundred of yours.

>>37513463
Except all the states that are cutting ties worked with them closely and also exported Wahhabism

>>37513792
>but look what this millenia old jewish text says. This is as bad as killing children two weeks ago
I guarantee you that someone has killed children in the name of Christianity in the past two weeks. I've seen Christians kill children in the name of their God first hand twenty years ago, with the blessing of pastors.

But sure: when a christian does something evil in the name of his religion, he's a nut. If a Muslim does it, it is because we're all in on it.

I've first-hand seen conflicts where Muslims were killed by Christians for the express reason of being Muslim, without provocation. Never once did I think that a Christian in, say, Belgium or Canada is to be blamed. The media didn't say so either, nor did any Christians. Yet I'm to be blamed if some autistic fuck blows himself up? Fuck off.

People are not their religion or nationality or whatever. Hell, if anything the people of the same class have the most in common. More Muslims were killed by Christians than vice versa. More people throughout history were killed in the name of Jesus than in the name Mohammed. More people in the past decades have killed with The Bible in the back-pack than with the Kuran.

The reason people hate Muslims so much is simple: It's no longer politically correct to hate Jews or blacks, and you desperately need an external enemy.

>>37514865
>For every person you take, we'll kill a hundred of yours.
Okay, but then don't be fucking outraged when people apply the same thinking to you and your family.

If you play that retarded game, then it goes both ways. All the terror attacks, ISIS, all that shit is done by people with the same mindset as you. They're your kind of people, just happened to be born in a different country.

>>37510912
>Anyone here a muslim?
I am

>do you really think your religion is a religion of peace?
Its a religion of justice. Sometimes to obtain peace a few battles need to be fought


>do you really want to kill unbelievers?
Only if they want to kill me first

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>>37513461
Delet this. No one here likes logic and proper understanding. They all just want to hate unconditionally.