have you cleaned your room yet?

I leave my room "dirty" i.e. clean but with clothes on the floor so my parents (im 18) dont find my drugs

I have tuesday off work so that's the day I'm going to sort my room out

this is the most obvious and common advice ever given yet his fans act like he's the next friedrich nietzsche

No I'm too busy masturbating

>>37476389
I think it's because of the way he's able to communicate the principles behind it. most of what he says isn't entirely original, in fact, he constantly cites Nietsche and Yung et al but no one else in mainstream media is delivering the info to college age kids. certainly not the colleges.

>>37476476
Literally every male role model I've ever seen has said "Make sure your square before you go trying to help others."

Other self help gurus like Peterson say the exact same shit

They tell you that shit on fucking airplanes for christ sake

If you haven't gotten that by the time your an adult you're probably low IQ or something

>>37476409
CLEAN YOUR GOD DANG ROOM

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>>37476341
>tfw you're room is clean but your shit is still all fucked up

I'll get around to it eventually. Not much to clean either, it'll be pretty easy. I'm pretty lazy though.

>>37476341
Can anyone explain this meme thanks

>Sees my dorm room is dirty
>Cleans it --- 6 garbage bags later I feel it is clean.
>Friend of lab partner sees my room after its cleaned and the garbage bags are taken out
>Says my room looks like a drunk was in it this past week.

>>37477845
>buy a newspaper
>spread it in living room
>get naked
>shit on it
>leave it there
no

>>37476341
I really want to get my shit together but this guy has a shit load of video and I don't know where to start and what order to watch the videos in.
Is there a playlist?

>>37477944
Rooms are Objects in the Third Dimension inhabited by Humans.
They are often Cubeoids with Rectangle-shaped Holes in them called Doors and Windows (not to be confused with the Operating System)
Cleaning is the act of removing unwanted Particles from an Area

>>37477944
Peterson was some obscure professor before he got a lot of press for opposing some bill that would make it so you had to call trannies he/she or whatever. I think the origin of clean your room comes from some video of his where he talks about student activists wanting to change the world, but they can't even clean their damn rooms(get themselves sorted out so to speak).

>>37478016
cleaning is commanding order forth from chaos

not kidding he says this in one of his videos, love the dude but sometimes he is just too much

>>37478000
Maps of meaning

>>37478077
who?
what videos?

>>37478136
Jordan Peterson, he's a clinical psychologist and university professor that does videos on many things but I watch him for his work on ideology and religion.

>>37476341
I'm waiting until August when I give away all my stuff and move to the other side of the world.

>>37476341
No, I can't fucking finish even cleaning my room. I'm a fuck failure, I've failed you Jordan Peterdaddy

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>>37480373
Start with something small, like making your bed every day, cleaning your desk, making laundry.
If you do one more thing per day, every room of your house will be clean and stay clean.

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>>37476341
My room is always kept in check.

>>37480461
Thanks, I needed this. I'm going to go do my laundry for the first time in months.

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Jordan Peterson's pro-social "clean your room and be good for society, be a good man" bullshit doesn't work. Do you think platitudes about how to live haven't been considered by everyone and rejected already? Whether or not you'd like to do what Peterson says, the reality is that the disenfranchised he's talking to are disenfranchised because a) they've rejected this philosophy already, or b) they don't have the motivation to carry it out. What's needed is a more sophisticated and selfish philosophy that makes use of the wealth of emotions we feel day-to-day which are not pro-social in nature. Resentment, jealousy, domination, power. These are what you have to draw upon to clean your room. You don't have any optimism or excitement for the future. Why lie to yourself? Clean your room because you hate disorder, and because you hate the world for being so dusty. Clean your room because you're jealous of others who clean their room without pause and you want to one day destroy them. Clean your room because hedonism weakens you. Clean your room because it's necessary for you to be able to achieve power.

Stop clinging to a dead way of life and pretending that morality concerns you.

>>37480517
Good job anon. You know what needs to be done for sorting yourself out, just like you know what to do to keep being miserable.

>>37480663
The views on his videos disagree. People want to know how. They're tired of hearing the same nihilistic arguments everywhere.
Peterson says himself not to believe what he's saying, but to think about it and engage in conversation.
You can clean your room because you want order.
You clean it because you see other people doing it and it makes their life better.
You clean it because it's necessary to take on responsibilities and change your surrounding for the better.

>>37480999
Actually, you don't clean it despite wanting order. You don't clean it because you see other people doing it and it makes their life better. You don't clean it because it's necessary to take on responsibilities and change your surrounding for the better. He's addressing people who has gone through your prescription already and done nothing about it. At the core of the issue is that introspective future-orientated motivation is not very motivating. You can't even convince people to go on a fucking diet which strikes to the heart of their sexual selection and social power, and you think you're going to convince people to clean their room based on some vague notion that it's the foundation for something good that may or may not come in the future?

You can do exactly what Peterson says to do, but don't filter it through self-sacrificing optimism and trying to be a good man for society or whatever. That doesn't work. What does work is hating the world and wanting to impose yourself on it. Destroy what's negative, don't fuss so much about trying to create what's positive. As Peterson himself says, life is suffering and we're all condemned. Every life is a tragedy. That's worthy of your hatred and defiance, not your optimism.

>>37481159
Jerry, we'd love it if you didn't come to our next party. You made the chicks really uncomfortable man, idk what you're going through but you need some help.

>>37481159
I find it hard to believe that hate is making less suffering in the world.
Destroy what's negative? Is it a reverse euphemism for making the world a better place?
The room thing is simple, easy to understand and implement. It won't work for everybody, some need to be sorted at an even lower resolution.

I got it halfway clean, then suffered a dose of crippling rejection, so it's staying like this until that wears off.

>>37481584
>I find it hard to believe that hate is making less suffering in the world.
That doesn't matter, the reality is that we have the world as it is and not a special transcendental world in which the most magical things exist, which is what Peterson embraces because his philosophy is so out of alignment that he has to focus on another world.
>Destroy what's negative? Is it a reverse euphemism for making the world a better place?
Negativity is the default, Peterson's optimism is the reverse of the default. It's better to focus on and embrace negativity because it dominates all aspects of life.
>The room thing is simple, easy to understand and implement. It won't work for everybody, some need to be sorted at an even lower resolution.
Why would you clean your room? Answer this question in a way that might spur somebody to actually do it instead of alluding to vague bullshit like "ur life will be better at some point in the future... maybe..."

>>37481950
Don't listen to these retarded faggots. Wallow in your crippling rejection and let it consume you. Why should you be in a state like this because you've been neglected since birth through no fault of your own? How is it fair that to other people life comes naturally and to you it's so difficult? Why were you born when life is so hard, and why continue?
Take those feelings and defy what the universe is trying to force you into. Clean your room out of spite for who the world has condemned you to be, and in that action reject it.

>>37476341
Nope still looks like a shit hole

>>37481159
> You can't even convince people to go on a fucking diet which strikes to the heart of their sexual selection and social power
tips fedora

>>37481159
>You can't even convince people to go on a fucking diet which strikes to the heart of their sexual selection and social power
tfw eating salad in the basement and already feeling the social power and all the pussy i am gona get cuz of this salad
jordon peterson= meme

>>37482770
The world is edgy, an edgy philosophy to accompany it is natural.

>>37482364
Peterson philosophy is pretty down to Earth I would say. He base his thinking on psychological research and don't just discard the mysteries of life as meaningless.
Also, I think fear is the default. If put in a completely new environment with no roof, electricity and food, will you be thinking about how negative everything is or try to find shelter and safety?
We built an incredible civilization over the centuries that we take for granted all the time. It's imperfect, but the best we have.
You clean your room because it's a good start. It's a way to move toward a goal and give a meaning to your sufferings.

It's a "my philosophy of the world is based on a stone age middle eastern religion" episode

>>37476341
NO!
Get out mom. Get ouuuttttt
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>37480663
Except he talks about how men should constantly be trying to climb the dominance hierarchy. You don't know what his views are, take your pseudo-intellectual bullshit somewhere else

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>>37482655
Then go out and shoot up your school

>>37482889
>Except he talks about how men should constantly be trying to climb the dominance hierarchy.

real shit?

>>37482655
you think your own resentment isn't your fault? then why bother with life at all? why haven't you blown your own head off you spineless coward fuck

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>>37482907
here's just one example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVwJduAVFY8&t=120s

>>37482841
>Peterson philosophy is pretty down to Earth I would say. He base his thinking on psychological research and don't just discard the mysteries of life as meaningless.
His philosophy isn't down to earth at all, he preaches the ultimate good which exists only in another world that doesn't exist.
>Also, I think fear is the default. If put in a completely new environment with no roof, electricity and food, will you be thinking about how negative everything is or try to find shelter and safety?
Negativity would be the dominant impression, fear would be the response.
>We built an incredible civilization over the centuries that we take for granted all the time. It's imperfect, but the best we have.
And it being the best we have makes it satisfying enough, I suppose? I doubt it. The basis of Peterson's philosophy is that life is suffering (his words), do you think that's something to be celebrated while you, at the same time, try to minimize the dominant characteristic of life?
>You clean your room because it's a good start. It's a way to move toward a goal and give a meaning to your sufferings.
Vague bullshit that leaves people with no motivation whatsoever.

>>37482896
Shooting up your school is fine, but there are better ways you can reject what life has determined for you.
>>37482920
Why bother with life at all? For the same reason Peterson says, because we're alive and killing yourself isn't something most people are willing to do even in the most dire circumstances. It's not in alignment with the treachery of the world and our own minds.

>>37482985
what do you suppose people should do about their suffering then

>>37482889
I said nothing about whether or not you should climb the dominance hierarchy, but if you asked me I'd agree men should constantly be trying to climb it. Their tools should be resentment, jealousy and hatred. That is my point.

>speak no bullshit common sense, with the occasional esoteric fancy word
>normies look up to you like you're a god

so this is the power of philosophy

The whore next door is supposed to do it but she is fucking unreliable. No wonder only job she can keep is prostitution. She said she would clean my place and fuck me for a hundred bucks but I don't know if I even want the latter anymore she's kind of crazy.

>>37483007
Use it. It's unavoidable to suffer as Peterson says. We have an embarrassment of suffering, it's our most plentiful resource, and hatred is always more stable than love. You'll never be short of hatred, but for love Peterson suggests looking into archetypes and religion which are not well represented in the world.

>>37483011
you said domination and power. it's the same concept.

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>>37476341
LEAVE MY CUMRAGS ALONE YOU FILTHY NORMIE
GET YOUR HANDS OFF OF MY PC YOU DISGUSTING WASTE OF ATOMS
DON'T EVER EVER CLEAN MY ROOM YOU ROASTIE CUNT YOU'LL MESS UP MY CABLES
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>37483073
I said make use of your lust for domination and don't deny it in favor of self-sacrificing and monk-like reverence for a theoretical good. I don't know how you read that as anything else, but I'm suggesting you become powerful through hatred.

>>37482945
He preaches truth, which is not as simple as good or evil.
We have all bad tendencies in us. Acknowledging them and our suffering is indeed what Peterson's saying, so we can deal with it. Also, it's not really bullshit when put into practice and seeing improvement.

>>37483143
He preaches good and evil constantly. That's why he's so obsessed with fake archetypes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQyDW0y-KiI

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>>37483081
>pepe is now discussed by a university professor
https://youtu.be/Ixc9i1G7eew

>>37483171
Well, it's not fake. Finding evil example is pretty easy, we know how to make it happen. So then good can be reducing evil.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NsfZHq6maH0

>>37483403
He's obsessed with the fake archetypes of good, which is what he proposes people use as their basis for conducting themselves in the world. Evil is easy to find, because as I've said ITT, negativity is the dominant characteristic of life. Good can be reducing evil if you want, but it's an unwinnable fight and people intuitively understand that, so it's not a good motivational force. Destroying evil out of spite for evil, and not out of desire for good, is much better.

AHEM

sorry to burst your guys peterson bubble BUT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDZnSKpnQ8k

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>haha just keep working lol be a cog in the jewish machine. Dont protest or complain just work like a good little piggy

nah

>>37482945
>good
So something that's good for you and good for your family and good for your town and country and the world isn't good? That's what he means by down to earth, he is a clinical psychiatrist and gives people real action to turn their shit around. He explains why things should be important to you. That's what's down to earth about it. He works with things like relationships, marriages. He's very wise, eloquent, and educated. I hope you spend time watching him even if you disagree.

>>37483446
>>37483446
>>37483446
>fake archetypes
He explains where archetypes come from. They're very very real, meta-real if you will.

Negativity isn't the default - from your previous example, if dumped in the woods would you "disapprove"? No, you'd be afraid.

Saying negativity reigns and that good can be defeated? I know where we are online but you're a real downer. Things just happen, how you feel is how you feel about them. Animals and plants don't exist with negativity, they exist. Period. Thinking makes it so. Think some thoughts that won't bum you out.

>>37483927
Yes goyim sit alone in your messy room. That will show them who's in charge.

>>37483873
This this fat fuck has dating advice, clip art, and a million copies of his face on his channel. Looks like a real scholar. Also that video could really do with some condensing, I have time for a critique not a frame by frame

>>37483247
In the Joe Rogan podcast he talks about Kekistan and explains the history of kek too

>>37476361
>I'm 18

And what exactly is that supposed to signify?

>>37478000
Bite sized philosophy curates great clips on YouTube

>>37476533
You said it yourself in your first line

Not many men have good male role models

>>37484123
>He explains where archetypes come from. They're very very real, meta-real if you will.
Archetypes don't accurately reflect what's represented in reality, they're an exaggerated fantasy. They're religious conceptualizations, as Peterson says.
>Negativity isn't the default - from your previous example, if dumped in the woods would you "disapprove"? No, you'd be afraid.
Fear, in its origins, is about weariness towards threats to yourself. Fear is an emotional reaction to something that's negative.
>Saying negativity reigns and that good can be defeated? I know where we are online but you're a real downer. Things just happen, how you feel is how you feel about them. Animals and plants don't exist with negativity, they exist. Period. Thinking makes it so. Think some thoughts that won't bum you out.
What kind of retarded argument is this? Value is created as a product of the mind, so therefore you can just think whatever you want since value isn't objective or something? Okay, I think I'm Superman. My life is much better now. Thanks. I guess there's no problem with anything since it's all just in the mind. There's nothing inherently bad about pain, so I'm going to put knives in your eyes. If you care it's your fault.

My apartment is so small that I often can't tell if it's messy or as in order as it can be. I have two pieces of luggage with absolutely nowhere to put them except for in front of my bed. If they weren't there they'd be in the bathroom or in the kitchen.

>still beyond worth living alone

>>37476341
No, I work a lot.

>>37476341
I clean my room rather often. I really enjoy cleaning which is really self defeating. My home is always so clean there is nothing to really clean.

>>37476341
No I'll get on it already just get the fuck off my back.

>>37484377

Archetypes are not fake. That is my post. They're not non-fiction, that's not my point. They're meta collections of real traits, real admired ones that people aspire to. Mythical heroes, you know the examples already. They're not conjurings though, they're religious in that they're- humanly speaking - universally real.

We fear the unknown, is the unknown a negative? You can't say. Fear is also much deeper than emotion, it's integral to limbic and psychosomatic systems inside us. I suppose emotion is a way to describe that kind of thing, but it's more deeply inate, I think you're being dismissive of that. I see your point though, if you're on a deserted island then afraid or not it's a negative situation, I see why you think that is more "real". But I don't think it's more "true".

Value can be, but in this case is not a product of the mind. Think of nutritional value. Think of raw materials that are made into refined goods. Think about time as a resource. It's finite, it's got value. You also contradict yourself in your last statement. You can't think your way out of being hungry. Some things are real you nihilistic hooligan. There are things you could do that would improve your life. That is not a debate. Thinking more positively is something that you as an individual could do that would improve yours. Like exercise, like a healthy diet. Like telling the truth.

>>37484377
Archetypes are not an exaggerated fantasy, they are an accumulation of abstracted traits that are found throughout history, stories, culture, etc. Just like numbers don't "exist", but they're useful tools.

>>37483446
>>37483446
Spite is evil, how is that better? Can you claim disgust is stronger than love? That's an interesting though but I don't know how I would defend an argument either way.
What makes you think negativity is the strongest? That seems like an unfortunate worldview to hold!

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>>37484597

>think positively

I haven't watched a single Peterson video but top fucking lel m8. Think positive? That's it? That's your advice? The same shit advice peddled here every single day is the cornerstone of this faggot's philosophy?

Bee urself, think positive, take a shower :^). thanks bro

>>37484597
>Archetypes are not fake. That is my post. They're not non-fiction, that's not my point. They're meta collections of real traits, real admired ones that people aspire to. Mythical heroes, you know the examples already. They're not conjurings though, they're religious in that they're- humanly speaking - universally real.
I understand your point, I'm telling you that meta people don't exist. If you can conceptualize them and write them into mythology that's great, but irrelevant.
>We fear the unknown, is the unknown a negative? You can't say. Fear is also much deeper than emotion, it's integral to limbic and psychosomatic systems inside us. I suppose emotion is a way to describe that kind of thing, but it's more deeply inate, I think you're being dismissive of that. I see your point though, if you're on a deserted island then afraid or not it's a negative situation, I see why you think that is more "real". But I don't think it's more "true".
"Fearing the unknown" is a mythological generalization. Humans fear threats, which can be extrapolated out of the unknown, but are not always unknown. There are plenty of unknown things that people don't fear.
>Value can be, but in this case is not a product of the mind. Think of nutritional value. Think of raw materials that are made into refined goods. Think about time as a resource. It's finite, it's got value. You also contradict yourself in your last statement. You can't think your way out of being hungry. Some things are real you nihilistic hooligan. There are things you could do that would improve your life. That is not a debate. Thinking more positively is something that you as an individual could do that would improve yours. Like exercise, like a healthy diet. Like telling the truth.
My point is that things are real and "thinking about it more positively" is not a sufficient way to address the reality of life. Tell the people most in need of help to "think more positively" and see how far they get with it.

>>37484703
Nigger I can't control what you think, but thinking life is dominated by negativity? What the fuck lad that's gotta get to you in all sorts of fucked up ways. Why not suggest life is driven by hope. It's not sunshine and rainbows, kid. I'm saying you need to look at this negativity thing. Maybe explain why that is? I can see it as a driving force for evolution, killing off the fucked up, but that's just a shitty lens no more fair that survival of the fittest


Also why the fuck do you want my advice you dipshit, yet another sign you're broken somehow

Welcome to r9k population us

I did clean it yesterday, 'cause I've been spending too much time indoors and just by seeing this mess I've felt even worse.

>>37484703
Never claimed it was his philosophy. That was me, anon's diagnosis of some robot. I have expanded on this in my other reply.

Petersons list of "most important lessons" is short, you'll consider it trite but It's short go read it for a min.

>>37484730
We don't even slightly disagree on most of this. Why is something to aspire to irrelevant? If it is great, how's it useless?

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>>37484770

I have no idea what you're speaking of. Google doesn't give me anything on "most important lessons". I'll assume it's some mixture of "work hard" and Just-World Fallacy nonsense.

This is basically Pop-Philosophy.

>>37484688
It's not about being better, it's about finding strength within yourself by accessing the resources you're the most wealthy in.
>What makes you think negativity is the strongest? That seems like an unfortunate worldview to hold!
Our entire moral structure is built out of deprivation and we're constantly being deprived. You get hungry, you get thirsty, you get lonely, you get tired, you get bored, whatever. A toothache is more painful than one of the best experiences in your life is pleasurable. Pleasure is extremely short-lived, but suffering endures. You're being consumed all the time, and the only way to stop it is by consuming other things. Peterson himself, as well as all religions and most philosophies, acknowledge that fundamentally life is suffering.

>>37484703
Think positive doesn't mean think happy. It means the visualization of outcomes, it means initiative and it means planning. Future oriented. It's the antidote to cynicism and is just as valid of a way to critique. It has no more merit than pessimism. You can't change how you think right away, there's no switch you can flip. It's a habit based thing.

Sorry you couldn't extrapolate my meaning to something more tangible. You start by making it a habit to have structure that can benefit you in the future. Things you can do. An imperative. I'll provide an example, clean your room.

>>37484841
Least I can do for a robot, second answer here ya go

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-valuable-things-everyone-should-know

It's trite but it's like the trite saying goes: tried and true. Petersons been a clinical psychiatrist and has helped many people and marriages so he's got the experience to back up the knowledge which is why he's so good at explaining the whys of this list. Cheers.

>>37484809
I'm not saying goodness is irrelevant as something to aspire to, I'm saying it's not very motivational. We have an embarrassment of resentment and suffering, but for goodness we have to create it in fiction. If you're obsessed with the good you're obsessed with a fictional world, or a tiny minority of the world that exists as it is. My entire point is that Peterson's pro-social and self-sacrificing 'do good' philosophy has no tangible foundation in this world, but if you invert it and feed off the suffering that you're now embracing, it does have a tangible foundation in this world.

>>37484866
Is suffering negative? Or is it just the way things are. You perceive this as negative, would you understand it if I said it's your choice? That's not I say suffering is easy.

I'm in line with a lot of this, love is sacrificial, necessity is not always straightforward, etc.

>>37484941
I think we and Peterson are all in line here, but it's like saying "the fittest survive" rather than "the crippled die".

Good does have a tangible aspect though, doesn't it ease suffering? That can be felt, differences can be made, and people can be inspired.

>>37484892
>Think positive doesn't mean think happy. It means the visualization of outcomes, it means initiative and it means planning. Future oriented. It's the antidote to cynicism and is just as valid of a way to critique. It has no more merit than pessimism. You can't change how you think right away, there's no switch you can flip. It's a habit based thing.
You can't even convince most people to clean their rooms with optimism. What hope does this philosophy have?
>>37484970
Suffering isn't inherently negative, but it might as well be for human beings. Saying nothing is inherently negative or positive doesn't do anyone any favors when they're dying of cancer or whatever.

>>37485001
>I think we and Peterson are all in line here, but it's like saying "the fittest survive" rather than "the crippled die".
It's a subtle distinction in words, but it's not a subtle distinction in emphasis. Filling yourself with hatred is a meaningful difference than filling yourself with religion reverence.
>Good does have a tangible aspect though, doesn't it ease suffering? That can be felt, differences can be made, and people can be inspired.
It has a tangible aspect, but not a tangible foundation. That's why Peterson has to use the examples of a meta world and meta people, yet he can easily point out multiple examples of evil without even trying.

It was my understanding that the suffering and pain actually grant meaning to life.

>>37485012
Man I'd say dying is inherently negative. You suffering because a family member died and you're learning about death for the first time, that could even be construed as positive.

And I think most people are convinced with what I mean by optimism. You may clean your room if you're knee deep in filth, but learning about all the benefits it can have is far more motivating, in my opinion, than hitting rock bottom. Optimism as in "the good this could do for me" seems to lead although to the same future that "I've got to stop this is bad for me" does, but it'll get you there in a way you'll feel better about, that's where muh feels come into the equation.
I know that I cleaned my room in a way more reflective of optimism than pessimism but both have equal merit. Optimism was a poor choice I hope you see what I meant by it though, with the future orientedness.

What do you mean by tangible? Are you saying something like "killing is bad but birth isn't inherently good" to provide a sort of example? I think since there are many ways to suffer, that good is in some sense the easing of that suffering in as many ways. Why does bad have a stronger stake than good? That seems to me like an individual choice which is why I bring it up. It's as easy for me to list good as it is bad, do you propose that's not the norm? Sorry to hit ya with so many questions I am just very curious about the way other people think, hope you don't mind answering them all

My room was clean. It didn't help. Now it's messy again. Why clean it?

>>37485158
Habit and discipline are the true lesson in cleaning your room. From that, a sense of purpose will arise and you will catch glimpses of a vision, of goals larger than yourself, of a future. It's about finding inspiration, motivation, determination. Cleaning your room is about tangible success, real discipline, real value. Cleaning it once is easy, keeping it clean is the truest struggle.

>>37477944
Here's the answer you're looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUo0TmFLpM0

>>37485144
>Man I'd say dying is inherently negative. You suffering because a family member died and you're learning about death for the first time, that could even be construed as positive.
Positive and negative values are a human construct, they're not intrinsic to things themselves.
>What do you mean by tangible?
By tangible I mean something with real substance. For instance, the holocaust had more real substance in terms of being a representation of pure evil than any pure good thing humankind has ever done.
>I think since there are many ways to suffer, that good is in some sense the easing of that suffering in as many ways. Why does bad have a stronger stake than good?
I agree that goodness is defined by easing suffering, and that answers your next question. Bad has a stronger stake than good because bad is most often the default and baseline, while good is a defiance of that.
>That seems to me like an individual choice which is why I bring it up.
If it was as simple as a choice and people were not inclined one way or the other, don't you think that people would have happier lives instead of lives spent idolizing good and trying to strive towards it, but ultimately being left with pain, resentment and regret?

>>37476341
I'm trying to follow his advice and I did clean my room and organize everything. I filed all my post and bills in a folder, started keeping a journal, cleaned my computer up, sorted my medicines, made a schedule and all that. I'm a NEET of 5 years.

But all it has really done is secured me more into my room, which is my prison. I've made my prison from a den of chaos and isolation into a den of ordered isolation. I feel more satisfied with my isolation and that's not good.

Also listening to a lot of JP since last year has made me depressed because although he says you must constantly improve and sort yourself out, if we all strive to rise up in the dominance hierarchy, then can't it only exist if there's people at the bottom? Isn't this a philosophy of extreme dog eat dog cloaked in morality?

I like everything else he says though, it's just a depressing dose of the what-is for someone at the bottom who has a long upward climb. I don't even know what I want yet and my current wants are bad, like vengeance and other sore loser shit.

>>37484892
This was a good post.

I also like his stuff on uniting religion and philosophy/myths into modern interpretation in psychology etc. That's a treat between the doses of my own depressing unmaking.

I always shit all over internet ideologues and celebrities but this guy has been the hardest to fault of all.

>>37485232
You're actually turning order into chaos when you clean, as the energy you expend turns to heat.

>>37485012
Just read your posts man, I don't think anyone here has actually lived the advice given by those "platitudes". I'm not some monkey-see monkey-do virtue signalling faggot, I want what's best for me. I'd encourage you to watch his videos about men, specifically men versus women. They're all about domination, and pro-social is the consequence never the objective. Men should be men, their best selves. Other men will want to be like them, women will want them. This seem very independent from jealously.

>>37485244
>Also listening to a lot of JP since last year has made me depressed because although he says you must constantly improve and sort yourself out, if we all strive to rise up in the dominance hierarchy, then can't it only exist if there's people at the bottom? Isn't this a philosophy of extreme dog eat dog cloaked in morality?
Yes, which is another reason why it's a farce to be pro-social and a waste of time to concern yourself with Christian morality instead of how to increase your own power and status.

>>37485277
Once you're at the top you have no reason to be jealous. My issue with Peterson's philosophy is that he's addressing people who need to, or want to, "sort themselves out" while giving them no foundation to do so except some vague religious bullshit and telling them if they clean their room it'll all come naturally from there. It won't. Jealousy is something you can use to strive to the top, like all the other negative emotions you're rich in.

>>37485243
I'm just confused because you say negativity rules but now that it's a human construct. As for real substantiated issues I think I just disagree on that one but only out of consideration that if I'd never heard of the olocaust id not be able to name it. I could however name the love of my mother as a good. That seems like an inveviatble listing argument.

I just plain disagree with the rest. Suffering rules - it's not good or bad. I could say with the same conviction as you that good is the default. The beauty of nature, the growth through your life, human perceived good. Bad is the slander and defiance of this natural order. See what I mean?

I don't really think it'd affect the way you live, the balance I think we agree is the issue and whichever perspective you have I don't think it has tangle outcomes. Love or fear you just cannot stake the stronger emotion. Those are the ones animals feel. I don't think our lives would be happier. I think we can die happy as we can die sad and sometimes that isn't your choice, I think once happy you could say 'finally I'm through the sad bit' as you could do the reverse. I wonder if this is what "beyond good and evil" gets into I spend a lot of time hating urban nihilism for someone who hasn't read it. Thanks for the chat though mate, not sure we'll get much father without some examples or reading to do or anything.

>>37485244
Not everyone has the desire to climb. There will always be these people below you. Let that motivate you. Also there isn't only one hierarchy. Find yours!

>>37485286
>>37485244
You folks should watch his videos on becoming men. They're all about power and dominance. Note that it is independent from aggression. I'm not sure I'd call these topics he discusses "Christian" but I don't know if he considers that the above-all-else faith - he despises ideologies I think he keeps an eye on it as a historically significant set of archetypal stories.

Godspeed to you both.

>>37485340
That sounds unhealthy. Peterson gives many many concrete examples of the advantages of developing good habits like a clean room that aren't at all ideological. Power doesn't have to be driven by jealousy at all.

Might be good for >>37485244
To check this out too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBgugeKaJa8

He expands on the benefits of cleaning your room. It doesn't work is a senseless claim to make. Or I guess prove you're a man of discipline with a clean room and then I'll believe ya. Petersons got the experience to back up these claims, yard as a therapist or whatever the term is.

>>37485274
You can't fight entropy get fucked JP

>>37485402
Just seems incredibly narrow in aspirations to focus on climbing a rigid system of morality based on over-scrutinized, older values. Is there really not any room for changes, improvements or experimentation?

Does everything always have to exist within a lens of a male dominance hierarchy?

Sometimes I wonder about Peterson's insistence of carrying forward like a meta-christian set of values relative to his own upbringing + his assumed role in his own mythos as an embodiment of the father and the older generation - wouldn't it be in the interest of the young to try to redesign his vision instead of grow old as him in values and ways while he does?

Something in me, like when he talks about the voice of truth, nags me when he speaks about dominance hierarchy, like I'm being given a cloaked version of dog eat dog. Am I really to try to perpetuate the same system that I was previously eaten in because I have no choice? Is that really 'christ-like'?

>>37485479
I'm not a man of discipline but I'm disciplined enough to keep a clean room, orderly bills and hardware, but not much else.

I also gave away everything I own on all the games I had dumped my time into, MMOs were such a time trap and I had to get clean so after watching some of his shit I ended up giving away everything to randoms. Bils on some games, thousands of hours. I still don't feel like it's enough, suppose I'm at that stage in the story where my sacrifice was rejected because it wasn't enough.

Did a lot of other shit too but that was something that was important to me.

>>37485521
You don't have to keep Christ that high. The dominance hierarchy is older than Plant Life, (fighting for shade, sexual reproduction and growing in groups, it exists too all over the animal kingdom it's everything from a Wolfpack to a polygamous eagle) it's not based in mortality at all I think that's a misconception you carry. It can be a workplace or a house or anywhere where they are men and there is room to earn respect. It is just the same as alpha and beta males, it's any set of criteria you can compare men, any set women look at to pick from attractiveness to more easy to climb things, it's not a lens as it is an explanation broader than I think it's been explained to you. I think personally after realizing this, I don't want to be like him in values or anything - he frequently encourages you to find yours and doesn't even suggest them to you. But yes it is a question that makes me curious too, he is very classically manly and father like himself. Wonder what his son is like.

>>37485584
That's a very honourable sacrifice for sure. A nobler cause. Yet both of us are still on this shitty website. I am thankful for that because we got to talk today but I don't know if it means I've not got myself as sorted as I need to...

>>37485641
>Wonder what his son is like.

I know his daughter is a bit of a yoga pants wearing, social networking whoring basic bitch. It's not what I expected to see as a product of him and made me question him a bit. It seems even the pattern of social construction for women is stronger than even his well informed and close parenting.

Probably just a matter of my own preference in women though.

>>37485719
I wonder if it's just a phase, but I feel like a lot of people don't value respect from their parents - never getting out of the rebellious youngster phase. Depending on her age she's probably got friends who hate her dad and I haven't a clue about mom. Bit disappointed to hear it though.

>>37485768
She's older, in her 20's, I think. But she plasters her social network in pictures of her on private boats and so on.

You could argue she's a successful woman though, she has received a wealthy education and is able to date high value males.

It seems a bit empty to me though, to root for what has been done and done again.

>>37485719
he has been drugging out her daughter since she was 11 on antidepressants

Has any ever told Peterson that the gulag archipelago is basically fiction?

>>37485814
That's awful. Does he justify this decision anywhere? How'd you come to this info?

>>37485837
That was an accusation made by the KGB because they were butthurt over the contents.

>>37485837
Just like the holohoax.
>>37485838
I want to know this too.

>>37485889
I'm the guy who asked but there's a TVO segment called "depression: a family affair" that probably has it - watching it now

Nah, I'm gonna have to do it tomorrow. Under my bed is gonna be a pain in the ass to clean up. I've been holding it back for awhile because I'm so god damn lazy and all I do anymore is sleep.

>>37485232
Holy fucking shit, his voice sounds so high-pitched and squeaky.

judging from the huge amounts of attention this guy is getting as the ideal philosopher for males, I would expect him to have a deep, sonorous voice, not sound like a fucking chipmunk.

>>37486034
You're a faggot if you rely on the sound of a voice to tell you if the conveyed information is worthy of listening to or not.

By that logic it would mean morgan fucking freeman must be a master philosopher.