Anyone else /vegan/ here? Please no hate

>>37291371
Nah , I love cheese too much

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>>37291371
>Anyone else /vegan/ here?
Yeah me
What's up

just tried vegan pizza with daiya cheese yesterday, it was pretty good

>>37291371
That better be vegenaise, anon-kun

>>37291371
/vegetarian/
I will never not eat eggs and cheese
but that looks good anon

>>37291423
It is anon. Also the "burger" was made from black beans

ya i eat lettuce and sweet potatoes all day it sucks

>>37291371
yeah, whatup

>>37291390
i loved cheese as well, but ya know, you need to make some egoistical sacrifices if you dont want animals to be in pain

>>37291491
There is plenty of other options . Do your research.

>>37291513
There is vegan"cheese " , its pretty good

>>37291371
become a vegetarian you cuck

>>37291437
dude cutting out eggs and cheese is just about as hard as cutting out meat
that is to say, not at all lol

that being said do whatever you feel comfortable doing desu

for any meat eaters here, meatless Mondays are a pretty good idea I think
or meatless weekdays

>>37291491
doesn't seem very good desu
I started eating a lot better ever since I became vegan, give cooking a try

>>37291371
Fellow veganon reporting in.

>tfw a girl compliments the taste of your cum

Is there any better feeling?

>>37291539
i know but it doesnt taste the same + there are limited options of vegan products (not counting veggies, mushrooms and fruits) around the world. i bet that in the u.s. you have a shitload of vegan products, but when youre a bug like me in a shithole like poland you dont really have that much choice (also veg-cheese here is pretty expensive)

>>37291549

I don't know what to cook, and all of the tofu fake bean products are really fucking expensive. Any good cheap recipes you know of ? I'm college student desu

>>37291595
Im not from the us.
Also i just try to eat fruits,vegetables and legumes.

>>37291562
Yeah, fucking of normalfag

>>37291371
>rapidly bordering on fruitarian out of sheer fucking laziness

>>37291659
Oh, I disagree. The fucking of normalfags isn't nearly as fun as the fucking of sperg girls.

>>37291562
How many dicks has she had in her mouth that she can distinguish different flavors of cum? You may as well be putting your cock in a public toilet.

>>37291611
start eating raw veggies. they will taste pretty great after some time. also just boil it than mash it with other veggies then fry it - whatever. hummus is always great so eat a lot of hummus with bread etc.

>>37291562
Pinneaple is great for this shit.

>>37291746
Awww yeah. You ever make a blowjob smoothie? Pineapple, mint, lemon juice, all that good shit?

>>37291696
Three? Four? My friend's pretty open about that stuff.

>>37291699
Raw veggies are fuckin great.
If someone doesnt like them . Then probably is a manchild addicted to sugar

/sort of vegan/ here, I never use meat, dairy or eggs in my cooking, but when I'm eating out, I often go for vegetarian, not vegan options, as good vegan stuff is fucking impossible to come by where I live.

Also, I eat clams and oysters because I don't consider them sentient. I'd probably eat shrimp or insects as well, but I don't like them, so I don't.

>>37291662
this
i want to only eat fruit and just take b12 and d2 supp.

>>37291519
i'm a poor fag im trying senpai

Yes vegan. Still just as fat and lazy as I was when I wasn't a vegan but whatever.

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Friendly reminder don't become a vegan until you are atleast 20

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>>37292015
kinda same

I'm like 90% vegan, if I go to some event I'll eat whatever vegetarian options they have if vegan isn't available


>>37292202
>Friendly reminder don't become a vegan until you are atleast 20
...why tho

>>37291371
Can't believe I didn't see this thread earlier. Another vegan here.

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I'm not vegan but I try to limit my eat intake to a few times a week and by not buying it as often I'm able to buy meat from happier, healthier animals.

I don't think raising cattle for meat is inherently immoral as long as the cows get to frolic in the field and such.

Didn't consume eggs and dairy in the first place because of allergies.

>>37291371
>no hate
you already hate yourself enough

>>37291371
Still only a vegetarian but eat mostly vegan. The only non vegan thing I regularly eat is pizza because here in germany I don't know where to buy affordable tasty vegan cheese.

No because I'm not a huge faggot.

Most people are only vegetarian/vegan for social reasons.

They think that it will make them appear better in the eyes of their peers.

>>37291491
Why don't you ask /ck/ for vegan recipes if you don't like what you're eating atm?

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>>37291371
Not vegan but been vegetarian for over 6 years now. Grilling my dinner after a countless workweek.
>that's a vegan sausage.

I don't like the word vegan or vegetarian because the connotation is a prissy upper-middle-class white Stacy bandwagoning on a food fad she doesn't understand or care to educate herself about. When people ask I tell them I've made a consciencetous decision not to eat an animal that I haven't killed myself. I don't particularly miss the taste of meat so it doesn't bother me. I miss seafood though.

I would be one if lamb didn't exist, I love lamb, the younger and bloodier the best, lamb chops, lamb roast, leg of lamb, shaved lamb on a gyro.

>>37293332
How can you be so sure?
You dont know me desu.

>im not a faggot
Confirmed as a 100percent fag

>>37293183
>I don't think raising cattle for meat is inherently immoral as long as the cows get to frolic in the field and such.
This makes no sense. It's okay to force breed and subsequently slit the throat of something and eat it premature to its natural expiration because it got to "frolic" beforehand? You can't be serious.

>>37293332
>Most people are only vegetarian/vegan for social reasons
I've never heard of a single person being vegan for "social reasons"

>>37293444
Why not just say you follow a plant-based diet then? Much simpler.

>>37293683

>I've never heard of a single person being vegan for "social reasons"

You probably have, they just wouldn't admit it.

>>37293719
The how the fuck is he supposed to know?
You are just making asumptions.

>>37293683
>Why not just say you follow a plant-based diet then? Much simpler.

I guess I could say that too. I suppose either way I'm going to come off like a snob. There's no getting off Mr. Bone's Wild Ride

>>37293046
>Can't believe I didn't see this thread earlier. Another vegan here.
what is your favorite dish

For me it is hands down channa masala

I like mushroom ravioli but it's hard to find vegan sources of an objectively fucking vegan dish

>>37293332
Interesting theory but I have literally no friends

>>37293719
>You probably have
>they just wouldn't admit it
So which is it? Have I heard of it or is it people won't admit it?

And even if true, what social reasons are they? Vegans are ostracised and made fun of constantly simply because they want to be healthier and not partake in an industry that slaughters billions of animals yearly. And you can't say moral grandstanding is the reason because it's not morals that are shared by the norm. It's an outsider belief.

>>37293777
True. Which is annoying because it's generally a perception pushed upon you by others which has no grounding in reality. It just is what it is; an answer to a question about diet.

I don't cook myself meat.
I will eat meat if I am a guest and I am served meat.
I don't speak about vegetarianism to others unless they ask me about it.
I do eat fish.

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>>37291371
vegetarian, but i plan on going vegan in a few months, just have to figure out what i like first.

>>37293832
To be honest I don't really have a favourite dish. I'm a shitty vegan in that all I do is throw things together and eat it. Although I do make a bean and pasta burrito thing that I quite like with spinach, onion, garlic and some other things. Don't think it has a name though. What's channa masala?

>>37293343
not him, but /ck/ is fucking awful. nobody cooks, it's all memes and fat asses talking about fast food. Everytime a vegan food thread is made it gets flooded. Garbage board, i've gotten better vegan recipes from /htg/

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>>37293865
>mfw Kek favors my eat-what-you-kill-except-plants-fuck-plants diet with consecutive trips (444 & 777)

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Tasty pineaple vegan cake i ate the other day

>>37293683
>This makes no sense. It's okay to force breed and subsequently slit the throat of something and eat it premature to its natural expiration because it got to "frolic" beforehand? You can't be serious.
Why not? Sudden death is unproblematic and cows on good organic farms have better lives than most humans. All their needs are being met, they can do what cows like to do, they're protected and cared for, the only downside is a bolt to the head one day and it's instantly over. When I see a cow in a meadow on a walk I feel envy, not pity.

I think it's way more immoral to breed humans that it is to breed cows.

>>37293865

The social reasons are that people will think more highly of them because they believe in a "cause"

Are you seriously telling me that you put more value in non sentient livestock than human beings?

What about all the billions of animals that die due to destruction of habitat to make way for crop fields. I guess they don't count?

Stop fucking kidding yourself.

>>37293970
>All their needs are being met
What about their need to live?

>they're protected and cared for
They can do this naturally. They don't need humans.

Are you a NEET perchance? Do you receive NEETbux or does your family support you?

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IVE BEEN VEGAN FOR 6 YEARS WHERES MY VEGAN GF?

>>37293969
looks good, although i'm more of a pie person myself.

>>37294005
A majority of crop fields exist to feed the animal husbandry industry where the amount of animals far exceeds the amount of humans as does their daily dietary consumption. This argument is a complete non-starter.

>>37294008

If there was no farming, there wouldn't be animals for you to feel fake outraged over.

>>37294041
Then I wouldn't need to be "fake outraged" anymore, would I?

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There is no need to reply to salty omnivores. You will not change their mind. You are wasting your time

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>>37294008
>What about their need to live?
They get to live. If it were up to vegans they would go extinct.

>They can do this naturally. They don't need humans.
Cows don't exist naturally, they're a human creation, just like dogs and most modern fruits and vegetables.

I am a NEET on NEETbux, yes. I aspire to the comfy life just like cows.

>>37294058

So you'd be more happy that animals never existed than them being humanely used to feed the world?

I bet you'd get fucking mad at a lion for eating a zebra you fucking mong.

>>37294135
>They get to live.
Except for the time where you kill them to eat them for no other reason than >tastes good tho or >muh bacon tho

>Cows don't exist naturally
You heard it here first. Humans created cows out of thin air

>I am a NEET on NEETbux
So you exist at the whim of society and by using your logic, because society supports you and gives you the life you live, it's okay to one day put a bolt gun to your head and kill you because some cannibal wanted to eat your flesh.

>>37294142
>So you'd be more happy that animals never existed than them being humanely used to feed the world?
They exist in such numbers only because they've been force bred by humans. They wouldn't cease to exist if factory farming ceased. You're not even making sense.

>I bet you'd get fucking mad at a lion for eating a zebra you fucking mong.
>Strawman assumptions

OP here.
i think that one of the biggest reasons i had to become a vegan its the fact that i consider it to be part of my spiritual growing.
i have become to sensitive to continue to ignore all the suffering that comes with meat

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>>37291371

no such thing as a vegan

even vegetables are grown using fertiliser made from animal bones

half the shit in your house will have animal by-products in them including your computer

what you are is a picky eater and a waster

>>37294227

I'm making completely reasonable sense.

If humans didn't farm cows, there wouldn't be any cows.
If humans didn't farm pigs, there wouldn't be any pigs
If humans didn't farm chickens, there wouldn't be any chickens

What would be their purpose if we didn't have meat, milk, cheese, leather, eggs?

>>37291371
im also vegan, its nice. i love it

>>37291371
>Anyone else /vegan/ here?
Hell no, far too hedonistic for that. But I find you guys are useful for weird receipts that someone else already tried and survived.
Burger from black beans? Worth a shot.

So as long as you do not try to preach and are sane enough in RL to tell me before I cook for you, I think of you like feet fetishists or such. Not my circus, but their kink-shots sometimes put out some sexy pics of qts who might not even take a single pics without it.

>>37294268
>What would be their purpose if we didn't have meat, milk, cheese, leather, eggs?

for fuck sake..

>>37291390
but anon you can buy vegan cheese which tastes worse and cost 3 times as much!

>>37294268
>I'm making completely reasonable sense.
You're not though.

>What would be their purpose if we didn't have meat, milk, cheese, leather, eggs?
This is your problem. You view animals not as living things but as tools to be used and exploited. We don't eradicate every animal that isn't useful to human function. This is ridiculous.

>>37294261
t. 89 IQ mouthbreather
veganism is about reducing animal suffering wherever they can. that's the definition.

>>37294318
>>37294324

I'm not talking about eradicating every animal that isn't useful you fucking irrational women.

I'm simply stating that human beings wouldn't have any need of raising or breeding animals if we didn't process them for food.

You seriously think that there'd be wild cows & pigs roaming the countryside if we didn't breed & raise them?

Absolutely lolling at your state of mind you dumb cunt.

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>>37294227
>Except for the time where you kill them to eat them for no other reason than >tastes good tho or >muh bacon tho
Yes, everything lives until it no longer lives.

>You heard it here first. Humans created cows out of thin air
You know perfectly well what I mean. Cows have selectively been bred into a species that differs from the original wild bovines.

>So you exist at the whim of society and by using your logic, because society supports you and gives you the life you live, it's okay to one day put a bolt gun to your head and kill you because some cannibal wanted to eat your flesh.
For a realistic comparison I would have to be oblivious to the arrangement. Other than that, a sudden death by bolt seems preferable to withering away from cancer or dying from heart disease like most Westerners are doing.

You seem to be opposed to death itself rather than suffering, which I find strange. There is no problem in being dead.

You should cheer up though, within a few years cultured meat will come out and whatever problems you have with farming animals should mostly cease to be relevant.

>>37293332
who the fuck cares what most people do? you're on fucking r9k with a bunch of shutin fucking losers

>>37293332
You must be living in the u.s.

>>37294041
>>37294142
I'm not that anon, but you should understand that there are multiple reasons to be vegan, with animal welfare being one of several

the issue which I and many other vegans consider to be more significant is the environmental aspect - eating beef especially is one of the worst foods you could for the environment in terms of carbon emissions and pollution

If you believe climate change is an issue, changing your diet is one of the single most significant actions you can take to mitigate the human effects on the environment

>>37294563
This arguments only works if you accept the general premise that we are not beyond the point of no return, which is extremely naive imho.

>>37294563

Going vegan isn't going to make a single bit of difference to the effects of climate change.

There's still going to be intensive animal farming whether you eat beef or not.

The problem I have with it is that people ascribe themselves the 'vegan' identity then claim a higher moral superiority than regular omnivore humans. They care more about the hypothetical suffering of non sentient animals than the actual suffering of human beings.

Lets take quinoa. Vegitarians and vegans will have absolutely 0 qualms about eating it and wagging their fingers at people who eat meat but they completely disregard the human suffering that comes along with quinoa.

Native South Americans are starving & dying because of westerners buying the staple crops they need to live and thus driving up the price meaning they can't afford to live.

But oh no, human beings dying isn't a problem. But a cow that's razed to be farmed for its meat grazing in a field needs to be burned to the ground.

>>37294388
>I'm not talking about eradicating every animal that isn't useful you fucking irrational women.
>If you point out how illogical I'm being you must be a woman

>I'm simply stating that human beings wouldn't have any need of raising or breeding animals if we didn't process them for food.
Right, so we wouldn't do it.

>You seriously think that there'd be wild cows & pigs roaming the countryside if we didn't breed & raise them?
lmfao there are already wild pigs you idiot. And what do you think cows were prior to domestication?

>lolling at your state of mind you dumb cunt.
The irony

>>37294434
>Yes, everything lives until it no longer lives.
So if killing things prematurely is okay then it's okay for you to be killed?

>You know perfectly well what I mean. Cows have selectively been bred into a species that differs from the original wild bovines.
How is this an argument though? Because we started breeding them we should continue because we started breeding them? That's circular logic.

>For a realistic comparison I would have to be oblivious to the arrangement
Most people are oblivious to the fact that they're about to be murdered or killed, anon.

>a sudden death by bolt seems preferable to withering away from cancer or dying from heart disease like most Westerners are doing
Which is due to diet. Okinawans had the largest amount of centenarians prior to their diet shift away from a whole food plant-based diet. Now it's the Californian Adventists who follow that diet and are the longest living people.

>You seem to be opposed to death itself rather than suffering
>Implying all animals are free range
It's only because you're specifically talking about free range. How dumb are you? You pick the topic, I talk about the topic >WOW YOU DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT SUFFERING

>within a few years cultured meat will come out and whatever problems you have with farming animals should mostly cease to be relevant.
Which will still be just as unhealthy as meat is today.

>>37291371
I could easily like living on a vegan diet, the problem is no one cares. I'm not willing to put in the time to makes sure I'm not dying of malnutrition, plus I know people that think veganism is harmful. Until my social incentives change, I just don't think it's worth the effort.

Quick list of foods I like: Peanut butter and fruit and carrots. Kale/spinach and pasta and tomato sauce. Tofu and rice with soy sauce. Mashed (sweet) potatoes. Vegan ice cream (I actually prefer it over the regular stuff). Avocados with seaweed and rice.

I'm pescetarian. Love my fish. Given up red meat and dairy though.

>>37294623
>Going vegan isn't going to make a single bit of difference to the effects of climate change.
Citation required

>There's still going to be intensive animal farming whether you eat beef or not
This is intellectually dishonest. Why would the animal husbandry industry continue breeding animals if there is a significantly decreased demand?

>The problem I have with it is that people ascribe themselves the 'vegan' identity then claim a higher moral superiority than regular omnivore humans.
>I don't like being told that my behaviour and choices are immoral
Top manchild

>they completely disregard the human suffering that comes along with quinoa
Could you please explain this? I don't eat quinoa and I don't know of the human suffering associated with it. Genuinely interested

>Native South Americans are starving & dying because of westerners buying the staple crops they need to live and thus driving up the price meaning they can't afford to live.
Are you trying to blame the 1-3% of the population that follows a vegan diet for this? It seems to be what you're implying. Or could it just be the animal husbandry industry buying those crops to feed the animals that inevitably feed decadent, wasteful Westerners?

>But oh no, human beings dying isn't a problem.
Nobody is saying this, you're creating a strawman. You also fail to realise that there would be more food if the animals who outnumber humans by the billions and also have larger dietary intakes weren't being force-fed so you can enjoy >muh bacon tho >muh juicy steak tho

>>37294563
I'm just vegan because I find animals have a level of consciousnesses where I find it creepy to eat them when I don't have to. Not eating animals is also a very simple thing to do to lessen your otherwise shitty existence.

But as with most things, the richer you are, the more "moral" you can be. If I were poor I'd eat anything. Not that I'm rich, but I manage

>>37294667
And someone was trying to say vegans are vegan for social reasons. lol

>>37294732
I'm poor and I eat vegan. This isn't an excuse for poor people. Vegan foods are amongst the cheapest available. It's only the "substitutes" that cost a lot and that's because they're luxuries. They're not actually required.

>>37291371
Fuck off you dumb cunt you get the hat because youre too retarded to post this on /ck/
FUCK OFF

>>37295292
>/ck/ Cooking
>/r9k/ Random with a robot filter
Hmmm.... the thread isn't about cooking it's about diets....

>>37294743
Not gonna lie, if a team of hot PETA qts volunteered themselves as sex slaves if I just switched to veganism, I would.

1/2
>>37294659
>So if killing things prematurely is okay then it's okay for you to be killed?
Well, there is obviously a difference between species and their capacity for suffering. Humans can suffer from the very idea of death, we're a species that can live our entire lives crippled by all kinds of hypothetical events. So the very notion that at some point someone might come along to kill me would be enough to ruin my state of mind for all the days in advance, while farm animals likely don't have the intellectual capacity to torment themselves in this way. So I would argue that this arrangement would be way more cruel for a human than for a cow.

If your problem is with the concept of killing in general then you are against life itself, because most life feeds on other life and so perpetually kills, including vegans. So you should ask yourself whether your problem is with suffering or with the idea of killing or death. If your problem is with the latter your beef is not with omnivores but with existence itself.

>How is this an argument though? Because we started breeding them we should continue because we started breeding them? That's circular logic.
I'm not saying we should, I'm saying that is the reason domestic cows exist. You said that cows don't need humans and do certain things 'naturally', but cows are a species bred by humans, so their very nature is defined by our interference.

>Most people are oblivious to the fact that they're about to be murdered or killed, anon.
I guess that's unproblematic for the individual in question then, if it is quick and painless.

>Which is due to diet. Okinawans had the largest amount of centenarians prior to their diet shift away from a whole food plant-based diet. Now it's the Californian Adventists who follow that diet and are the longest living people.
I agree, the whole blue zone stuff is fascinating. One of the reasons I decreased my meat consumption.

2/2

>>37294659
>It's only because you're specifically talking about free range. How dumb are you? You pick the topic, I talk about the topic >WOW YOU DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT SUFFERING
That's because I only eat free range.

>Which will still be just as unhealthy as meat is today.
Sure, but people do lots of unhealthy stuff. They want pleasure and like to get drunk and high and eat sugar and such. If humans are going to act this way, the best thing we can do is create a context in which harm is reduced.

It's a realistic approach that will lead to greater progress than acting high and mighty on the internet, which is a really inefficient way to convince people.

>>37294743
Wow, what is hot and in for some "meeker then thou and no sufferings 5evar plz" sjw girls in liberal arts class will break your neck even talking about during some construction workers coursework, who would have thought.

>>37295376
>So I would argue that this arrangement would be way more cruel for a human than for a cow.
You've clearly never watched slaughterhouse footage. Pigs and cows are very aware of what is happening. Cows have even been observed seeming to mourn the loss or death of one of the herd. Maybe you're just ignorant of this point because you look down so heavily against non-human species.

What if a vastly superior alien race found Earth? We do tend to treat others quite cruelly, we wouldn't be as smart as them, wouldn't be able to communicate, can't even get off our rock reliably, etc. Maybe we'd be to them as intelligent primates are to us. Would it therefore be reasonable for them to just kill us because they're not sure we're capable of feeling similar emotions to them?

>If your problem is with the concept of killing in general
I have never said this. Your problem is that you started out by talking about animals "frolicking" and thus I continued that conversation. I haven't mentioned suffering because it isn't pertinent to the points you so far have made.

>so their very nature is defined by our interference
All you've done here is switched some words and continued your circular reasoning
>Because we interfered with cow development in the past it is morally justified to continue to do so
This is like saying that because you were bullied in the past which affected your current existence as a shut-in that it's morally acceptable for your bully to continue to do so because he is responsible for your current state of existence.

>I guess that's unproblematic for the individual in question then, if it is quick and painless
So you're arguing it's okay to kill people if it's quick and painless?

>One of the reasons I decreased my meat consumption
Why not decrease it further then?

>>37295418
>That's because I only eat free range
This is not an argument though. Would it be okay to farm, kill and eat people if you let them live "free range" lives? It's ridiculous that a cow being "free range" is even considered being "nice" to it. It's its natural state of being. Letting it live its life before slaughtering it for no reason is not an ethical thing to do.

>They want pleasure and like to get drunk and high and eat sugar and such
Which doesn't inherently cause the suffering and death of others.

>It's a realistic approach that will lead to greater progress than acting high and mighty on the internet
>Stating facts is now acting high and mighty on the internet
I haven't even chastised you for what you do, only your dumb arguments. Why do you feel like I'm high and mighty? Do you feel guilty about something and are projecting this?

>>37295461
I assume you thought you were saying something insightful here but it really comes across incoherent.

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Some snacks i was eating while watching a movie.

>>37295672
This looks nice anon. Is that raw mushroom at the top tho?

1/2

>>37295499
>You've clearly never watched slaughterhouse footage. Pigs and cows are very aware of what is happening. Cows have even been observed seeming to mourn the loss or death of one of the herd. Maybe you're just ignorant of this point because you look down so heavily against non-human species.
It depends heavily on the circumstances of course and the more 'ethical' the product you choose the better the slaughter conditions are, but of course it's not all pleasant. That said, a moment of fear after a life well lived doesn't seem like such a bad deal. It's a better deal than most of us get. As for the mourning, you have a good point there if that is demonstrably true.

>What if a vastly superior alien race found Earth? We do tend to treat others quite cruelly, we wouldn't be as smart as them, wouldn't be able to communicate, can't even get off our rock reliably, etc. Maybe we'd be to them as intelligent primates are to us. Would it therefore be reasonable for them to just kill us because they're not sure we're capable of feeling similar emotions to them?
I think any intelligent species would exterminate us and I wouldn't blame them for it.

>I have never said this. Your problem is that you started out by talking about animals "frolicking" and thus I continued that conversation. I haven't mentioned suffering because it isn't pertinent to the points you so far have made.
Suffering is my only concern here as far as the animal goes. What other concern would there be?

2/2
>This is like saying that because you were bullied in the past which affected your current existence as a shut-in that it's morally acceptable for your bully to continue to do so because he is responsible for your current state of existence.
I'm not making ethical claims in this particular instance at all, I was merely correcting your idea of 'natural' cow behaviour while domestic cows are bred by us. It would like talking about 'natural chihuahua behaviour'. It doesn't exist.

>So you're arguing it's okay to kill people if it's quick and painless?
Yes, but taken other suffering into account. That's why your mourning argument is a good one in the instance of cows.

If you kill a human you are generally hurting other humans by doing so, but the human you killed obviously isn't hurt by it because he no longer exists and therefore is incapable of experience anything negative. But I would go as far as to say that if you found a person with no friends or family that no other person cared about, some sort of hermit hobo living by himself in the wild, then shooting that guy in the head while he's sleeping would technically be a victimless crime because there it causes no suffering.

>Why not decrease it further then?
I might, but I derive a lot of pleasure from eating meat and I already have a quit limited diet due to some severe food allergies. So I'm seeking a balance between a healthy life and an enjoyable one.

>>37295816
>That said, a moment of fear after a life well lived doesn't seem like such a bad deal
>It's a better deal than most of us get
I think your self-pity stops you from thinking rationally. You're honestly trying to argue that getting picked on for a couple of years in high school is worse than being killed for someone to eat.

>you have a good point there if that is demonstrably true
Cows have also been observed grieving the loss of their calves after birth if they're milk cows or the offspring is used in the veal industry.

>I think any intelligent species would exterminate us and I wouldn't blame them for it.
>le nihilism

>What other concern would there be?
Ethically or health-wise?

>>37295842
>It would like talking about 'natural chihuahua behaviour'
This is inherently false. Everything has a natural behaviour.

>the human you killed obviously isn't hurt by it because he no longer exists
You're talking about physical pain or emotional distress. The human still suffers damage due to the termination of its future prospect.

>shooting that guy in the head while he's sleeping would technically be a victimless crime
What the fuck? This argument isn't even comparable, animals aren't drugged or sleeping when slaughtered. They're aware of what is happening.

>I derive a lot of pleasure from eating meat
Do you eat raw meat? Do you add condiments to cooked meat? What makes you think you can't enjoy other food without having to needlessly kill other living beings? Why would you even derive enjoyment from such a thing? It's such a double standard.

Do you have people that care about you? Would it be ethical to end your life? Regardless, I'm going for a morning walk so I probably won't be back to respond in time before the thread dies. If you want to respond I'll read it when I get back

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Yum! I sure do love some delicious meat!

>>37295550
>This is not an argument though. Would it be okay to farm, kill and eat people if you let them live "free range" lives? It's ridiculous that a cow being "free range" is even considered being "nice" to it. It's its natural state of being. Letting it live its life before slaughtering it for no reason is not an ethical thing to do.
Humans are psychologically different from cows so things that may not make a cow suffer might make a human suffer. We're extremely prone to suffering due to our level of (conceptual) awareness. But as I said in my other post, there are circumstances there I think it is not immoral to kill a person.

>Which doesn't inherently cause the suffering and death of others.
Exactly, just like cultured meat. Hence the comparison.

>I haven't even chastised you for what you do, only your dumb arguments. Why do you feel like I'm high and mighty? Do you feel guilty about something and are projecting this?
Maybe high and mighty isn't exactly the right phrase, but you're taking a hostile cunty tone with me that's not really constructive to good conversation. It's cuntiness like that why a lot of people have negative associations with vegans.

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>>37291371
I'm vegetarian because almond n soy milk has a lot of estrogen and I dont wanna grow tits

>>37296052
>but you're taking a hostile cunty tone with me that's not really constructive to good conversation
Do you know where you are right now?

>>37296060
It contains phytoestrogen. Not actual estrogen. You need to eat 20-30 servings of soy daily to have even minimal feminising effects. You're worse off drinking estrogen-contaminated water. And using BPA contaminated products.

>>37296012
>I think [...] to eat.
I think that of all living beings on earth, humans have the greatest capacity for suffering. Even humans with relatively good lives. It's not so much self-pity as pity for our species as a whole.

>Cows have also been observed grieving the loss of their calves after birth if they're milk cows or the offspring is used in the veal industry.
That sounds believable to be honest and is a good point.

>>le nihilism
That's not nihilistic. Misanthropic perhaps, but not nihilistic.

>This is inherently false. Everything has a natural behaviour.
If you want to go that way then I guess factory farming is also natural behaviour.

>You're talking about physical pain or emotional distress. The human still suffers damage due to the termination of its future prospect.
Factually incorrect. There is no human there to suffer. The dead can suffer no more than the unborn.

>What the fuck? This argument isn't even comparable, animals aren't drugged or sleeping when slaughtered. They're aware of what is happening.
Shooting him in the head while he's awake wouldn't cause a lot of distress either, but there would be a bit, probably.

>Do you eat raw meat?
Yes

Do you add condiments to cooked meat?
Sometimes, not always.

>What makes you think you can't enjoy other food without having to needlessly kill other living beings? Why would you even derive enjoyment from such a thing? It's such a double standard.
It adds a lot more variety to my diet. I derive enjoyment from it because it tastes good. I don't see anything double about it.

Do you have people that care about you? Would it be ethical to end your life? Regardless, I'm going for a morning walk so I probably won't be back to respond in time before the thread dies. If you want to respond I'll read it when I get back
I would probably be missed a lot by a decent group of human beings for decades to come, so that would be pretty mean to them.

Enjoy your walk.

>>37296183
>>>37296103
>I don't believe you.
>asdfghjkf6ycmjfjgljgoiginal
Bump

>>37291410
Except Daiya is disgusting.

>>37293969
That's apple slices on brown sugared bread crumbs. Stop lying.

>>37294030
You gotta get them gains first then take a visit to Belgium, el em ay oh

>>37294233
I went vegan after being pescatarian for ~3 prior because I've never liked being evil, and realized that it's evil to not be vegan in the Western world

>>37294464
Why are you getting offended though?

>>37296060
My body looks like this but it's always looked like this. I've heard the ectomorph body shape is associated with higher intelligence, so I wouldn't be surprised if lots of skinny cunts go vegan. Unfortunately this is then associated with veganism itself when it's really just natural body shape.

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>>37296026
A seal would gladly eat your bitch ass and it's delicious. If we didn't control seal population they would eat all their food supply and starve themselves

No. I suffer from oral allergy syndrome, so my diet would be extremely limited if I couldn't eat animal products either.

>>37296060
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

>>37296192
>factory farming is also natural behaviour
Please explain how this logically follows if a dog has a natural behaviour. Chihuahuas, to use your example, are notoriously yappy, aggressive from afar but cowardly at close. This is its natural behaviour. Just because you have no documentation of a chihuahua in the wild doesn't mean it'd cease to function and die on the spot. It may be a good forager, it may be poor. That's all natural behaviour.

>There is no human there to suffer.
You don't know what a future prospect is. There is still harm done even if the person is no longer alive to experience it.

>Enjoy your walk.
Thanks anon

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>>37298119
What is oral allergy syndrome?

>>37298723
It's a meme allergy for people who are genetic refuse

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>>37298082
that was me sucking in a bit
this is more accurate
>sorry for shit pic

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>>37298882
i grew up really chubby, but switching to water and veggies and the occasional soy burger has done wonders for my energy and overall mood

my nails are weak af tho

>>37298917
You either have some sort of medical issue or you lack protein in your diet. Likely the latter.

>>37299006
I heard supplements help but idk what to take
I also wanna get a head start on supplements for hair since its in my genetics to go bald apparently

i am and i love it

food is so cheap an delicious now

>>37299061
Supplements are mostly a meme my friend. Only B12 and Vitamin D really work. You're better off getting it through dietary sources.

>>37299188
i'll up my mushroom n veggie burger intake
and ill get me some of that b12

>>37299233
Just make sure you cook your mushrooms. Dr Greger has a video talking about a toxin I can't remember the name of present in mushroom that is destroyed with heat but is ingested when raw.

>>37299385
noted thanks vegfam

I think my testosterone has gone up after starting a mostly vegan diet. I have bent my phone in half, smashed my laptop screen and broke a window by throwing an xbox controller through it. No one wants to spend time with me anymore because I'm an angry prick.

>>37291371

Describe sandwich further please.

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>>37298882
Still a slim guy nonetheless

>>37299061
Just for reference, I'm taking VegVit by Vegetology which contains all the vitamins one would need, plus an Omega 3 fat vitamin by NuTru. I live(d) in Portland, so I got them from a vegan grocer called Food Fight!.

>>37299188
I highly doubt that, but B12 and D are indeed necessary

Not vegan but I'd totally look into vegan recipes, not substitutes but mostly Asian dishes that use coconut milk and stuff.

>>37299810
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374537/pdf/83-6691152a.pdf

This is actually true. Vegans have higher test.

>>37300417
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fgVDT0qw88

It's true. Pretty sure this is the right video. All sources are cited.

>>37300452
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4oJDnDBCw19ab32D7dTQCUaOG6fvRQ9e

Hot For Food are a pretty good channel for vegan dishes. I think they've got some Asian dishes but most Asian dishes are vegan anyway. It's mostly a Western addition with the meat.

>>37300506
That doesn't say multivitamins are a mean. What I got from it is if you're a fatass or cancer victim, taking multivitamins isn't going to save your life. For people who have deficiencies in their diet, multivitamins can help out make sure they aren't losing out on what their body needs. Poor students with little time on their hands, for instance, can get cheap meals that fill their bodies, like spaghetti, one or two vegetables, which won't be enough, but get vitamins for relatively cheap and still come out okay.

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Just found this. Now posting it.

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>>37296026
>Eating meat means we enjoy animal torture

>>37300797
Why does it say to only use legumes moderately?

I think most of my diet consists of stuff in the bean group, am I gonna die?

Why the fuck is tofu in the bean group

>>37301792
I actually think that's from a video about raccoon fur being used for Wet Seal's boots? I remember seeing it when I was 16 and it scarred me.

>>37300797
Don't agree with this pyramid at all. Beans are one of the most healthy foods on the planet.

>>37301841
It's a bad pyramid. Tofu is with beans because it's made of fermented soy bean which, as you can tell, is a bean.

>>37301792
Well you must. You're paying people to cage animals in stalls so small they can't even turn over, force fed to fatten them up, deprived of social contact, sunlight and the ability to move, and, inevitably, slit their throats so that they bleed out on an abattoir floor all so you can eat animals because >tastes good tho and >muh bacon tho

>>37301883
>You're paying people to cage animals in stalls so small they can't even turn over, force fed to fatten them up, deprived of social contact, sunlight and the ability to move, and, inevitably, slit their throats so that they bleed out on an abattoir floor all so you can eat animals

>Implying all the animals that we eat are treated this way

>Because of this apparently it makes 97+% of the world sociopaths

wew lad

>>37302010
>>Implying all the animals that we eat are treated his way
Even if you pay the extra dollar to get guilt-free meme food you are probably wasting it at least in the US.
>Because of this apparently it makes 97+% of the world sociopaths
That's stupid, but the animals do have high cortisol levels and probably have early stages of cancer or extreme vitamin deficiency by the time they're killed for their meat. They also are loaded with antibiotics.

>>37302010
>Implying all the animals that we eat are treated this way
A vast majority are. And this is ignoring the immoral actions of raising, depriving the liberty, and slaughtering animals classed as "free range" for absolutely no reason. You can't win a moral argument here.

>Because of this apparently it makes 97+% of the world sociopaths
Strawman. I never said it made them sociopaths. I said they enjoy animal torture. This is a given. Animals are raised in torturous conditions for the sole purpose of giving people meat to eat because they ENJOY the taste.

You've added nothing to the conversation except a shitty attempt to be witty with your maymay arrows

You morons better take plenty of supplements to maintain your unnatural diet, unless you want to literally go insane

>>37302098
Solution: only buy meat from companies that are proven to grass-feed their animals and keep them in open ranges. Wow, morality issue solved. Next reason eating meat is evil?

>>37302103
Insightful, but subtle.

>>37302114
I'm not vegetarian, but we don't euthanize our own. Those that can ask to die.

>>37302119
Was there anything wrong with my statement? You need vitamins and proteins that can only be obtained from animal products, unless you want to go insane

>>37302114
>Makes a reply
>Completely ignores what he's replying to
Are you retarded?

>>37302138
It was a compliment. Are you okay?

>>37302138
Not true. Animals don't naturally contain B12. It's supplemented in their feed. Plants used to be a source of B12 along with water before modern agricultural and treatment standards eliminated it from our diet. This is why animals are supplemented with B12 and it's how you get it when you eat them.

There are no proteins that are animal exclusive.

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>>37301792
Well you don't have to eat meat man
You will be perfectly fine without it

So even if you aren't actively pro animal torture, not really sure you are against it, you are neutral at best

>>37302103
just wanna tell you that you probably should be taking supplements as well anon

Did you know 40% of Americans have a b12 deficiency?

Carnist concern trolling about vegan nutrition seems to ignore that most meat eaters are extremely unhealthy

>>37302114
Here's your grass fed cow being branded with an iron

Do you unironically think these animals live good lives?

>>37302140
Without the meme arrows, what are you trying to say here? Are you disagreeing with me or what? You're not being exactly clear.

>>37302170
>all grass-fed cows are branded
>here's an emotional image meant to make you feel bad
Are you guys actually trying to present appeal-to-emotion based arguments on fucking r9k? Do you have any arguments that aren't "feel bad for the animals dude"? Do you have anything based in logic at all?

>>37302098
>THEY'RE NOT SOCIOPATHS THEY JUST ENJOY ANIMAL TORTURE
>>37302170
You must be retarded because if you eat fish you get all the b12 you need

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Damn I knew vegans were retarded due to their vitamin deficiencies, but it's hilarious to see them trying to say animal cruelty is a bad thing on THIS fucking board. This is a board where people unironically celebrate serial killers and school shooters and enjoy torturing animals, do you honestly think this was the best place to come and try to argue for veganism? Did it ever occur to you there might be better places where people won't call you out for being the brain-dead retards you are? You guys actually manage to stand out as mentally challenged on a board full of autists. Congratulations are in order.

>>37302172
It's very clear what I said. You failed to respond to my reply. You just stated that you solved a moral dilemma.

>>37302201
Sociopathy is a medical diagnoses with criteria specific to humans. Why are all carnies so dumb?

>>37302170
You implying that every grass fed animal gets ironed????

>>37302261
>ironed
>????
lmao how old are you?

>>37302251
I know that, but it was very obviously what he was imblying. Why are you calling me "carnie?" I'm omnivorous as nature intended. You fuckers are the unnatural ones who have brain damage and need to enrich your food with shit
>>37302285
>ignore valid point
>make fun of mannerisms
You just have no counterpoint

>>37291371

i still eat meat sometimes but i strive for veganism

you're an inspiration to me

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>>37302306
>I'm omnivorous as nature intended
Wrong.

>You fuckers are the unnatural ones who have brain damage
40% of Americans are B12 deficient. The vast majority of which are meat eaters

>need to enrich your food with shit
Meat is supplemented with B12.

You're not making any good points anon. I need you to try harder. How old are you?

>>37302222
Why are you so edgy? Not everyone here beats their pets and has a murder planned like you do, anon.

>>37302329
You should at least eat a tin of sardines a day
>>37302354
Meat isn't supplemented with b12, where are you getting your info? As for humans being herbivorous, why did all herbivorous hominins go extinct? Because their diets weren't good enough. Keep your dangerous ideology to yourself
>>37302393
>calls someone edgy
>immediately acts edgy

>>37301841
Because they are mostly protein and fat

The pyramid shows the ideal balance, you aren't going to die if you can't make it happen.

>>37302429
>Meat isn't supplemented with b12
It is. It's fed directly to the livestock in their feed. Where do you think B12 comes from?

>why did all herbivorous hominins go extinct?
All of our living ape ancestors eat a plant-based diet. What are you talking about?

>Because their diets weren't good enough
What is it that you can't get from a natural plant-based diet? As has already been stated and shown, 40% of Americans are B12 deficient, the majority of which are meat eaters.

>Keep your dangerous ideology to yourself
Says the carnie

How old are you? Last time I ask before I stop replying.

>>37302285
>lmao how old are you?
I don't speak English as a first language

>>37302513
>Legumes
>Mostly fat
Holy shit dude you're as dumb as this kid chimping out in here.

>>37302538
Way to ignore the other side of the conjunction, my superior intellected friend.

>>37291371
No, I'm not gay OP.

>>37302354
Humans are omnivores who descended from primarily herbivorous apes.
Herbivorous hominids went extinct for a reason.

I've been vegan for about 6 years, and vegetarian for the 10 before that.

I hope none of you consume the soy Jew

>>37302567
what are we supposed to eat? everything has soy

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>>37291371
Been a vegetarian since I was 15, became vegan when I turned 25. Best decsion I've ever made. Also cut out gluten, soy and 'alternative meats.

Can't post a pic but I had cabbage and apple slaw with walnuts and coriander. Dressing was hummus and orange juice based, Shit was cash son.

Vegans can't even afford a 4chan gold account.

>>37302607
It costs a lot to only shop at whole foods.

>>37300162
Vegan mayo ,black beans burger, palm hearts , onions , vegan cheese,lettuce,pickles and home made ketchup

>>37302553
>Legumes
>Protein makes up ~24% of total calories
>Fat makes up ~0.5% of total calories
>MOSTLY PROTEIN AND FAT
You're one dumb cunt mate. Hang yourself.

>>37302567
There is nothing wrong with soy.

>>37302669
Don't shop at whole foods then

>>37302669
I try to buy my vegatbles and fruits in a pretty cheap market. I only buy at whole foods when im feeling like a spoiled bitch.

Im allergic to so much shit that it was easier to just nuke my diet and go vegan.

Not that bad actually... I've lost weight...

>>37294030

This triggered me. Is there anything worse than 'vegan' girls who fuck non-vegan Chad? Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegan

Also KHV Vegan Wizard from Melbourne, Australia reporting in.

>>37303236
Not really. I'm a vegan guy and I fucked non-vegan girls. I feel kinda bad for vegan girls though because most vegan men are beta pussies anyway.

>>37291371
Why are you Vegan?
I can understand not wanting to eat shit processed meat where organic isn't available, but eating other species and death is an essential part of life and growing stronger.

>>37291437
What about fish??

>>37303264
Vegetarians don't eat fish. That's pescetarians. Fish is just as bad for you as meat. No point in eating it, it has nothing you can't get from a whole food plant based diet

>>37292234
Because you will stop growing, some meat is important for being tall strong and healthy.

>>37298917

For your nails take zinc supplements, especially if you're fapping a lot.

After taking zinc for a few months, any 'white spots' on my fingernails disappeared completely and they're firmer now too, though I never really had any issue with them.

Vegans need to make sure they're getting trace minerals regularly, because most people obtain them from meat (in fact, even the average person isn't getting enough).

>>37303278
>dat broscience
If you have any studies to support your position feel free to post them

>>37303276
How is eating fish bad for you?

>>37303290
Still has saturated fat. Still has cholesterol. Has heavy metal and chemical contamination. Has nothing you can't get elsewhere. You're killing something for no reason.

There's no point desu

>>37303288
> Look at Herbivorous
> Look at Carnivores
> Look at omnivorous

Which group is on average stronger, faster and more intelligent (basically a superior animal)?

>>37303290
Mercury first and foremost

>>37291371
I do not hate. I'm just concerned about your health. Are you feeling alright?

>>37303310
That's why humans kill them for food, because they're the most intelligent.

>>37303310
>Which group is on average stronger, faster
This has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with work and genetics

>more intelligent
Debatable but likely vegans due to their ability to read scientific studies and not be tradition following, unquestioning morons.

Go check out Patrik Baboumian and Clarence Kennedy. There is also an NFL lineman or something who is vegan. Veganism is underrepresented because vegans are a minor part of the population and because of the stigma and broscience.

>>37303329
There is this misconception among omnivores that you have to feel "full" i.e: bloated to have a sufficient meal. If you feel this way after eating, chances are that it is you at which you should be aiming these questions at.

>>37303344
>>37303310
Just realised you may be talking about animals and not peoples diets. In which case

>Which group is on average stronger
Herbivores

>faster
I think cats are the fastest land animal unless I'm mistaken, so carnivores

>more intelligent
Humans are herbivorous so, herbivores

>>37303344
Yeah, I can read. It states clearly that meat is the only protein source without carbs in it. I can be a body builder without doing 3 hours of cardio every day and eating kilograms of beans and other gas inducing foods. Also, fat is fuel. Carbs is shit.

>>37303403
>le carbs are bad meme
So scientifically literate. I'm very impressed ;)

>>37303329
Yes anon. My achne is gone since i went vegan . Also my energy levels have improve.

>>37303366
What?
What is stronger than a polar bear? Gorilla? Give me a break.

>>37303308
> chemical contamination
Not all fish

>saturated fat and cholesterol
I'd much prefer to die of a heart attack than of cancer

>Killing something for no reason
That's just part of life, just because eating another life form (plants) doesn't make it any better.

You might as well accept that killing for food is essential. Unless you can photosynthesize there is no other way for life to obtain the necessary power from the world to survive.

Besides there is nothing wrong with death. It's only pain/suffering that we should avoid. And i'm all for humane farming/organic farming. I have personally herded pigs to the slaughter, they don't know the death is coming and it is instant (at the organic farm I was at anyway).

>>37303315
That's in Tuna, if you eat fish lower in the food chain like sardines you can avoid that

>>37303366
> Humans are herbivorous
That's not how we are evolved

> Herbivorous are Stronger
Come on just look at an average herbivore (say a Zebra) and then at the average carnivore (Lion). There is just more energy stored in meat because it is the concentrated energy from plant life. I'm not saying it's healthy to eat excessive amounts of meat

Here's the one thing to shut down all vegans.

The plants that you eat kill just as many animals as the meat that everyone else eats. Harvesters tear all of the small animals in the fields to shreds.

>>37303344
It has everything to do with diet. Eating meat has caused them to evolve (effecting their genetics and making them stronger/more intelligent over time).

I have yet to see a single rational vegan on this board.

Are all vegans loud and irrational? Or is it just a vocal minority?

>>37303502
Vocal minority OP.
I only talk about veganism when im with friends or when im asked about.

>>37294119
Now show us what your body looks like.

>>37303475
>kills just as many
You're deluded if you believe this. Not all vegetable and fruit fields undergo the same harvesting procedures. You seem to be thinking of wheat and corn, which is only a fraction of the vegan diet as well as most peoples regular diets, unless you're a carbhead

>>37303344

>diet has nothing to do with strength
>strength & speed is just genetics!

How the fuck do people believe this shit?

Human beings got smarter and stronger because we ate meat.

We got smarter because we started COOKING MEAT. Cooked meat gave us more calories.

Can't believe this thread is still active and all these retarded vegans and women trying to mentally justify their logical fallacies.

>>37303236
Chad here. One of the girls I'm fucking is a vegan. Vegan men are just too pussies for her.

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Good morning /greenbots/
What did you had for breakfast?

>>37291371
being vegan is pretty dumb, you're just making yourself unhealthy for no reason

>>37303604
do vegans have tighter pussies

>>37303615
Roasted cauliflower, refried beans, sauteed spinach and sweet potato hashbrowns, Dont have a pic, sorry!

>>37303623
>unhealthy
Vegans live longer.

>>37303545
Even ignoring the harvesters. All of the other equipment involved in farming kills millions of smaller animals. Being vegan solely because of moral reasons doesn't work unless you only eat food that you grow with water that you gather on land that no animals could have lived on.

>>37303604

In general if you're fucking a vegan girl and you're non-vegan, then she's likely one of the terrible SJW style 'attention seeking' vegans everyone hates. Which makes you not a Chad, but a numale cuck.

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>>37303623
Try again carnicuck
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/Vegetarian-diet-linked-to-longer-lifespan.aspx

>>37303652
Based on a study where it's vegans VS americans who eat junk food.

Now show me a study where they have vegans VS healthy herbivores.

>>37303659
>Vegetarian
You're still unhealthy
Also who's the Cuck when you're depriving yourself of culinary enjoyment for an extra 2 years of old-age dementia.

>>37303656
These are untinentional killings though, its not like its an integral part of the process. I think you're really blowing this "issue" out of proportion. Come back with figures and we'll have a serious discussion.

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>>37303446
Or an elephant. Either way you're wrong.

>>37303466
>Not all fish
Yes all fish

>I'd much prefer to die of a heart attack than of cancer
What the fuck are you trying to say? Oxidised cholesterol also causes cancer due to free radicals and inflammatory response.

>That's just part of life
Appeal to nature fallacy

>just because eating another life form (plants)
>muh plants r sentient tho

>You might as well accept that killing for food is essential
Then you should take the path of least harm and eat a plant based diet

>That's not how we are evolved
But it is

>Come on just look at an average herbivore (say a Zebra) and then at the average carnivore (Lion)
lmfao why the fuck is it EVERY time a carnie tries to make a comparison it's to a lion. You're not a lion. Also elephants and gorillas are stronger than a lion.

>There is just more energy stored in meat because it is the concentrated energy from plant life
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say this. And hopefully the last because it's fucking retarded. You're taking you are what you eat too seriously.

>I'm not saying it's healthy to eat excessive amounts of meat
>muh platitudes and lip service
No amount of meat is healthy.

>>37303475
Harvesting of plants goes to feed both humans and lifestock which outnumber humans in the billions and eat much more. Your shitty argument is a non-starter and relies and a deliberate misunderstanding of the definition of veganism.

>>37303500
Citation required

>>37303582
>We got smarter because we started COOKING
Good job. You're right

>MEAT
Oh... you fucked up. It's retarded... nevermind.

>>37303659
>wanting to live longer

why

>>37303694
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/Vegetarian-diet-linked-to-longer-lifespan.aspx

Scroll down, same thing applies to vegans. There are gorillions of scientific studies showing vegans live longer.

>>37303711

Are you seriously trying to dispute the absolute biological and scientific fact that cooking meat produces more calories than raw meat?

Pre-historical humans got smarter because they figured out how to cook meat to provide more calories. Do you *really* think that humans were complete herbivores and cooked each other salads on rocks?

How exactly does an un-credited .jpg prove any of your points?

>>37303742
>Are you seriously trying to dispute the absolute biological and scientific fact that cooking meat produces more calories
What the fuck? Yes. You fucking idiot. Do you even know what calories are?

>Pre-historical humans got smarter because they figured out how to cook meat to provide more calories.
Wrong. Cooking meant we had to spend less time chewing which allowed us to eat more food in a shorter time and eased the strain on our digestive system.

>How exactly does an un-credited .jpg prove any of your points?
Scroll up to find the other time I posted it. It's sourced. Had to edit it out of the second post to attach it again.

Carnies are the dumbest.

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>>37303770
>Carnies are the dumbest.

>expecting carnitards to think

That's your mistake. Look at this one >>37303623 >>37303694

They say completely stupid shit which can easily be disproved on google, then when they get disproved say stuff like "b-b-but I didn't want to live longer anyway"

Carnicucks really are fucking retarded

>>37303742
Look up the stoned ape theory, it makes a lot more sense than your baseless "we ate meat and now we're smarter" notion. It states that consuming large amounts of psilocybin opened up the language pathways in our brain.

I seriously doubt that consuming meat gave us any insight or improved our self awarness by any means. Do you know how big neanderthals we're? Fucking huge, 7 foot plus. We may have gotten smarter over the centures but our mind and bodies have not kept up due to our propensity towards a carnivorous/omnivorian diet.

>>37303803
Yeah you're right. I've been listening to Ask Yourself lately and he's right. Only the mentally weak or the mentally dishonest deny axioms.

>>37303770

You have to be a troll, noone can be this dense accidentally. Like honestly.

Cooking meat makes more of the food digestible thus increasing calories. If we didn't cook meat we wouldn't be able to process the meat as efficiently.

Yes, cooking meat also meant we spent less time chewing which had a knock on effect of making our digestive tracts shorter and our brains bigger in our ancestors.

You try to lambaste me for "ignoring the evidence" yet conveniently ignore the fact that you can spend 3 seconds in google to prove everything you're trying to say wrong.

Humans have short and pointed incisors for tearing meat. I can literally look in a mirror and see that. So can any human being on the planet.

https://www.amazon.com/Diet-Life-Style-Mortality-China-Characteristics/dp/0801424534

Ultimate green pill

Enjoy your heart dissease and erectyle disfunction meatcucks

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>>37303907
>Cooking meat makes more of the food digestible thus increasing calories.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>If we didn't cook meat we wouldn't be able to process the meat as efficiently.
Because we're not omnivores

>you can spend 3 seconds in google to prove everything you're trying to say wrong
So why haven't you done it yet? Show me a nutritional study supporting your position from the NLM

>Humans have short and pointed incisors for tearing meat
Do you mean canines little buddy? :)

>>37303911
>$249.99
They're invested in boycotting veganism but not this much desu

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>>37303964

>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2011/12/08/why-calorie-counts-are-wrong-cooked-food-provides-a-lot-more-energy/

>Because we're not omnivores

Hmm...

>Do you mean canines

Yes. See how I can admit when I'm wrong without having an autistic meltdown?

>>37291371
fuck off stacy and go back to pinterest I gues

In my opinion is that people should only go vegetarian for a moral issue

>>37304113
Yeah cause lord forbid if we wanted to be, dare I say, healthier. Is the flipside of this that people only should eat meat cause they enjoy killing?

>>37304026
>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2011/12/08/why-calorie-counts-are-wrong-cooked-food-provides-a-lot-more-energy/
>Quoting a primatologist's blog about nutrition
Well I'm convinced. Also it's interesting that the studies he cites are locked behind a paywall and the only person who agrees with him is his own student. Very credible.

Also all the studies which cite his are to do with evolutionary anthropology. Not nutrition. Try linking exactly what you think supports your position from his article because it's 28 pages and I'm not reading it all to figure out if you're full of shit.

>Hmm...
>B-but if it's on the internet it's true!!!
As I said, a peer-review article in the NLM is acceptable. Go wild.

>Yes. See how I can admit when I'm wrong without having an autistic meltdown?
Congratulations. You don't have pointed canines.

Feel free to actually prove any vegan position wrong anytime though.

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>>37304148

where are your peer reviewed articles in the NLM that humans are herbivores and our canines aren't pointed and sharp?

You credit yourself a higher moral position against the evil "carnies" to justify your attacks and hatred of anyone not part of your in-group vegan ideology. Completely ignoring all scientific fact and cherry picking arguments and "data" to back up your own illogical beliefs.

I just spent half a second googling if humans are omnivores and the FIRST LINK is from a website called veganbiologist who goes into great detail why humans are omnivores and provides citations and links to NLM and various scientific journals & websites.

A vegan website proved vegan beliefs wrong with peer reviewed scientific publications. I guess these are all wrong too?

You guys know gorillas are vegans right?

>>37304230
>our canines aren't pointed and sharp?
I don't even need a study to prove that. I don't even need to show herbivorous teeth. Just google carnivore teeth and sit there and honestly think. Think. DO MY TEETH LOOK LIKE THIS?

>You credit yourself a higher moral position against the evil "carnies" to justify your attacks and hatred of anyone not part of your in-group vegan ideology
Because I do have a higher moral position

>Completely ignoring all scientific fact
You're yet to post anything that is scientific nutritional fact though. Even your argument that cooked food produces more calories is true (it's not) it's irrelevant because we're talking about modern diets and modern veganism. I already know what it's going to say though. It's going to try and point to increased weight gain in humans on a meat diet as proof it has more calories while ignoring that calories are a unit of measurement easily determinable and impliedly claiming it isn't a different factor in play causing such an occurence.

>I just spent half a second googling if humans are omnivores and the FIRST LINK
Great. Link it then. It still doesn't detract from the fact that meat is unhealthy for us regardless of what he says. Simply cooking it produces heterocyclic amines. It contains carcinogens. Processing it causes cancer as recognised by the WHO. It's strongly associated with the number one killer of Americans: IHD

>A vegan website
Anybody can claim they're anything. I'm a carnie and all carnies suck cock and swallow cum. I said I'm a carnie so it must be true.

>>37304271
You guys know tat no other carnivorous animal cooks and seasons their food right?

>>37304288

still waiting for your peer reviewed NLM articles proving that humans are herbivores.

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>>37304310
Anon, could you kindly show me which group you identify with

>>37304303
I know we call you carnies but you're the first person I've seen humans are carnivorous. Christ dude.

>>37304310
Already stated that I don't care either way because it detracts from the topic. I posted a sourced infographic which you're yet to refute. You can't name a single part that's wrong. And now you're demanding proof of me for something that's off topic.

I can provide you a plethora of studies that show meat is bad for you. Can you show me a single carnivorous or omnivorous animal that doesn't develop atherosclerosis in the presence of a healthy and function thyroid gland?

You can't. But I can show you study after study demonstrating the significant presence of carcinogens and the negative effects of animal products on our health.

>>37304146
>wanted to be, dare I say, healthier
I have spent 1 hour looking this up and all I devise that people can eat meat and from time to time should, anyone who has an only meat diet or only eats greens are missing out on important nutrients

>>37304354
I am vegan. Thought you we're paying out vegans by calling them gorillas

>>37304376
They CAN eat meat. I CAN jump off a cliff but I choose not too. Cause you know, early grave and shit.

>>37304383
>Thought you
Wasn't me

>paying out vegans by calling them gorillas
I have literally no idea what this means. I'm assuming "make fun of." Never heard anyone use this before. I'm assuming you're a pom or something

>>37304411
Australian, and yeah it means making fun of. Im usually good at converting my lingo into US terms.

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>No hate on 4chan

>>37304428
I'm Australian and I still don't think I've ever heard that. I mean I figured it was making fun of but yeah.

I think gorillas are pretty dope so I thought it was more a weird comparison than an insult but maybe we just saw it from different perspectives.

>>37304469
I live in regional Australia so it may be a bit of a dated phrase

>>37304410
Firstly you are on r9k so an early grave is something that sounds great and should be inviting
Second, meats gives us nutrients that are important to the body which if are at plants, will only be given by eating a huge amount of vegetables
I will not take some kind of moral high ground for eating meat or stating these facts/possibly wrong facts
please stay safe stranger

>>37304523
No probs mate. Good to see a vegan in the country though. Seems to be a lot of dumb bogan cunts out there.

>>37304549
>Second, meats gives us nutrients that are important to the body which if are at plants, will only be given by eating a huge amount of vegetables
Can you give an example of this and define "huge" for everyone?

>>37291390
Get edumucated:
youtube.com/watch?v=1hE6lhQu7k4

>>37291549
But I love eggs and cheese, I never loved meat.
The only reason why I am vegetarian is because eating meat feels the same to me as eating food that fell on a dusty ground for some dumb reason.
I only miss a few things which are all junk food so Im better off like this
>>37303264
I dont eat fish either

I eat vegan when I'm out by myself and it's an option, but I don't want to be "that guy" around friends or family so I still eat meat

>>37304564
Yeah for the most part there is, they just have backed up colons from all the lamb chops they consume so I don't really judge em too much.

>>37304549
R9K to me is just /b/ with fewer porn threads. I frequent other boards and saw this vegan thread and thought, sure why not. Not suicidial by any stretch of the imagination.

>>37304632
So you're a social cuck? Why would you not only do that to yourself but engage and encourage practices that hurt others? How do you know some QT won't immediately drop Niagra Falls into her panties if you don't tell everyone to fuck themselves because you're going to eat vegan?

>>37304288
>Because I do have a higher moral position
In the arbitrary and subjective moral frame you yourself have set. Congratulations.

>>37304336

You just reposted an infographic used to make fun of vegans.

>>37304354

>you have to provide peer reviewed NLM articles to prove your point!
>I..I don't because I don't care! Look at this source less infographic that irreconcilably proves my point!

>>37304684
How? Its a breakdown of all the different animal diets and their resepective dental formations. You're correct in sense by saying we aren't herbivores but are in fact Frugivorious.

>>37304682
So tell me. What is moral about your position: needlessly slaughtering sentient animals who have emotion, form connections, outnumber humans, out eat them all for the sole purpose of it tasting good to you?

Brilliant position. I just got BTFO. Can't recover.

>>37304684
No seriously. I don't give a shit at all. The question is about veganism ethically and healthfulness. The facts are undoubtedly in my favour and if deign to make a claim it's easily refuted. Veganism is easy to defend because it's the logical, ethical and scientific truth. All it requires is motivation to search NLM. And I've had a couple of cones so I'm not as interested in searching shit to refute you as I was LITERALLY 12 hours ago when I was arguing these points in the thread. I'm not here to serve you little guy.

>>37304577
I would mostly say by quantities and servings since you can eat a steak once every few days and you should be fine while with vegan diets it's that you should have a protein source every day or you might have an issue, it also comes from the fact of how old said person is. Sadly I cannot give a proper definition except for the contest I was using it in, which is a lot of food

>>37304774
>while with vegan diets it's that you should have a protein source every day or you might have an issue
Mate, you need a protein source daily no matter what your diet is. Of course I use need in a non-literal sense. You should be getting at least 35-60 grams of protein daily for optimum health.

>it also comes from the fact of how old said person is.
I think this goes against what you're arguing. The older a person is the less protein they need due to a lower muscle mass and the strain ingesting, especially animal sourced, protein on kidneys.

I don't think you've given us any nutrient found in meat that you can't get elsewhere that is beneficial though. Vegetables and fruit contain fibre and anti-oxidants while avoiding the carcinogens associated with meat and its preparation. If anything an argument for a vegan diet becomes strong and stronger as an individual ages.

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Its funny to think that what started off as some guy posting a picture of his humble little meal has snowballed into a stupid ass back and forth between aggressive meat eaters and passive vegans

How do you even live without animal fats? The brain feeds on that.

I'd always be unconcentrated and tired if I tried that.

>>37304725
>So tell me. What is moral about your position
Nothing, morality is extremely subjective. It simply doesn't matter what standards you have set, you can always imagine yourself on the top of some imaginary tower of morality giving yourself pats on the back and arrogantly staring at 'carnies' or whatever other group you happen to disagree with, below.
Sorry to disappoint, but this tower only exists in your head.
> logical
The only good logical argument which can be made against eating animals is comitting mass murder which leads to extinction of a certain species, this extinction would lead to some terrible damage in the planet's ecosystem and so forth. However I doubt that cows or chichens will go extinct any time soon, since it's a controlled process.
>scientific truth
I am not educated enough on the topic to argue about nutritional side of this argument. One thing I can see that both options are relatively tame.
> ethical
Again, a subjective standard which only exists in your head.

>>37304953
>Nothing, morality is extremely subjective
>Muh subjective morality tho
Hear this as much as
>But lions tho

>The only good logical argument which can be made against eating animals is comitting mass murder
>This is what shut-in nihilists honestly believe

>I am not educated enough on the topic to argue about nutritional side of this argument
>One thing I can see that both options are relatively tame
>I'm going to humble and admit I know nothing
>But both sides are unconvincing
What the fuck is this? You should have stopped with the first statement before you ruined it and looked retarded.

>Again, a subjective standard which only exists in your head
Ethics aren't subjective though. It's ethically and morally wrong to kill other sentient beings is wrong. What condition in animals, if present in humans, makes it acceptable to kill people?

What arguments that don't boil down to "muh feelings" are there in favor of veganism, exactly?
I genuinely can't think of any.

>>37305112
Probably because you can't think and can't read scientific nutritional studies. That was simple

>>37291371
>Can't eat eggs because it's cruel to eat unborn animal.
>Abortion of human fetus okay.

>>37305112
Better digestion, clearer skin, greater empathy towards animals, lighter more sufficient meals, less depression, less anxiety I really could go on.

Reasons for eating meat
>Muh cravings

>>37305112
>What arguments that don't boil down to "muh feelings" are there against veganism, exactly?
I genuinely can't think of any.

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>>37291513
>I don't want animals to be in pain but I don't care about the humans who have to farm all the shit for me to eat

>>37305165
>>Can't eat eggs because it's cruel to eat unborn animal.
Agreed

>Abortion of human fetus okay.
Disagree. Just because a larger portion of vegans swing left doesn't mean we all do. Veganism is an ethical movement. Not a political movement. Don't be an SJW and politicize the individual.

>>37305155
Then show me those papers, please.
Say "oh there's papers about this" without pointing towards them is not much of an argument, is it? Neither is discrediting someone's statements based on your perception of their person.

>>37305166
>Better digestion
>clearer skin
>less depression
>less anxiety
source it, or is that anecdotal evidence?

>lighter more sufficient meals
Sure, but you need to eat more stuff.

>greater empathy towards animals
how is that a good thing?

>>37305031
>Muh
This is not an argument.
>What the fuck is this? You should have stopped with the first statement before you ruined it and looked retarded.
The only thing I meant by this is that I don't see vegans or meateaters dying left and right by the millions.
>ethically and morally wrong
This is some children's book level of philosophy, the world isn't black and white, right or wrong. There are different perspectives on different actions. In you head maybe killing animals for food is wrong, but not in everyone else's. I think that making animals suffer and killing them just for funsies, without harvesting materials from them, is retarded. However I still regard animals as lesser species, and I still can't emphasize with them as much as I do with humans. Does it make me right? Maybe in my frame of thinking it does, but not universally. Who do you think sets these ethical and moral standards of yours, because the society sure as hell doesn't care.

>>37305250
You have to heal me out here. What do you want papers about? The evidence in favour of veganism is literally overwhelming. Do you want things that show veganism lessens the risk of IHD, CVD, cancer, ACM, increases insulin sensitivity, is better for your mood, is better for weight loss, lengthens life, protects against diabetes, etc? What is it you want? Help me to help you buddy

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>>37305112

What arguments that don't boil down to "muh feeligns" are there in favor of anything, exactly?

>>37304774
meat has cholesterol, which is important to your body. but vegans dont really know that and will assume by eating one piece of meat your cholesterol will shoot up to 300+ and instantly clog arteries

>>37305250
>better digestion
A carnivorous animals intenstianal tract is 3m, ours is anywhere from 9-12m. The former's is shorter cause it needs to pass on the flesh it has consumed otherwise it will get backed up. Our digestive system is designed for long slow breakdown of large quantities of foods such as vegetables and fruits etc
>Clearer skin
Easier digestion, healthier over-all body. This is pretty basic stuff
>Less depression and anxiety
All these things are interconnected. "Healthy body, healthy mind".

>Sure but you have to eat more stuff
Cool? I like eating

>Greater empathy towards animals
Who here doesn't like animals and want to be closer to them? C'mon man you're grasping at straws.

>>37305258
>The only thing I meant by this is that I don't see vegans or meateaters dying left and right by the millions.
But IHD is the number 1 cause of death in Americans which the ACC President says is the ONLY factor in atherosclerosis with all other factors being contributory at best. And it can only develop in meat eaters. So yeah, seems they are dropping dead by the millions

>In you head maybe killing animals for food is wrong, but not in everyone else's
Argumentum ad populum. Just because I'm a minority doesn't make me wrong. There is no such thing as moral relativism either.

>I think that making animals suffer and killing them just for funsies, without harvesting materials from them, is retarded
What if you harvested useless materials from the animal? Like it's nails or its saliva without any intent to make some retarded natural medicine concoction? Is that okay even if the harvested material is unnecessary?

>>37305327
Your body makes all the cholesterol it needs. Yet another shit argument.

>>37305327

The human body makes all the cholesterol it needs. You don't need dietary cholesterol.

>>37305282
I think you greatly misunderstand something.
The things you are describing all are consequences of a diet with an excess consumption of fats and mono-/disaccharides. None of these issues are inherent to the consumption of meat.
The cancer thing from last year was alarmist bullshit that was quickly discredited.

Basically, you can have all these benefits if you maintain a balanced diet. However, apparently it's easier to just cut the things that cause issues in excess, instead of consuming them it moderation, it seems.

>>37305341
>Cool? I like eating
I don't.

>Who here doesn't like animals and want to be closer to them?
I don't.

>>37305408
>I dont
>I dont
Why do you even live?

>>37305408
>I think you greatly misunderstand something.
Nope. That would be you

>The things you are describing all are consequences of a diet with an excess consumption of fats and mono-/disaccharides. None of these issues are inherent to the consumption of meat.
And this is wrong. The WHO and hundreds of intervention studies beg to differ.

>The cancer thing from last year was alarmist bullshit that was quickly discredited.
What are you even talking about?

>Basically, you can have all these benefits if you maintain a balanced diet.
Basically you're a fucking retard.

>it's easier to just cut the things that cause issues in excess
>just snort a little bit of meth. it's fine. nothing causes issues in excess

>>37305418
He's a sad 16 year old trying to be smart on the internet but is coming across as a pseudo-intellectual

>>37305454
you're the one acting like a pseud.
You are so intent on being right, when you clearly aren't.

>>37305460
You and anyone else in here has yet to refute myself or any other vegan in here yet. When you do that, we admit we're wrong. Just follow the topic.

>>37305477
>we will only admit we are wrong when we say so

say whaat

>>37305342
>Argumentum ad populum
Not quite. I didn't say that the majority of people believe in eating meat, therefore you must be wrong.
>Just because I'm a minority doesn't make me wrong
No it doesn't. It doesn't make you right either.
>There is no such thing as moral relativism either.
Oh but there absolutely is. DIfferent cultures have different ideas about morality. It is perfectly moral to kill a cheater in some countries or to shag a 10 year old girl. Is it normal by our western standards? Obviously not. However they might think that us giving equal rights to retarded people is stupid. Hell maybe your neighbour thinks that punching a woman in the gob if she punches you is a ok. While some beta male cuck thinks that you shouldn't punch a woman under any circumstance. They both have an opinion, none of them is wrong or right.
>What if you harvested useless materials from the animal?
I think you should harvest everything you can. Teeth, claws, skin, meat etc. If the harvested materials are a couple of small specific things for some mumbo jumbo then its stupid.

>>37305477
>DEBATE ME
Are you vegans the new atheists?

>>37305493
Dont greentext something that wasn't even said you meatcuck. He gave you the benefit of the doubt even still are dissporving you with logical answers. Get out you're just trolling at this point

Is it better for an animal not to exist or exist and die due to slaughtering? What if the animals are treated well until they are killed?

>>37305493
Oh sorry. I forgot this was /r9k/ where virgin loser autismos can tell you when you're wrong for you.

>>37305512
There is absolutely nothing to debate. It'd just be some spastic linking a blog or a cross-sectional study and getting BTFO. There is no discussion to be had.

>>37305496
>Not quite. I didn't say that the majority of people believe in eating meat, therefore you must be wrong.
But that's exactly what you implied. It may be my morals but those morals don't coincide with everyone elses which implicitly suggests that I am wrong and everyone else must be right in this context.

>No it doesn't. It doesn't make you right either.
I never said it did. You're arguing a point I've never made.

>There is no such thing as moral relativism either.
Yes there is. Is it moral to murder someone unjustifiably in any culture? Is it moral to torture someone unjustifiably?

These things are what happens to animals and it's unmoral in any culture by any moralistic system

>If the harvested materials are a couple of small specific things for some mumbo jumbo then its stupid.
But that's what happens when you harvest the meat. All it is is a dense serving of protein with a side of negatives which significantly damage your life. You're eating it for no reason and thus harvesting it for no reason.

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>>37305524
>get out youre making me look bad

>>37305535
Not to exist. Slaughtering of an animal affects more than just the animal. It's better it never existed in this scenario.

>>37305576
>Diane, hold my chicken tendie. The vegans are rebutting and I might need to come up with a logical argurement

>>37305594

But if you asked me the same question I'd rather live a happy life for ~20 years and then be killed as opposed to never existing in the first place.

>>37305574
>But that's exactly what you implied.
No.
>unjustifiably
That's the main point. Justifications vary. Albeit killings things for no reason at all is stupid, but I (as in meateaters) kill animals to eat them, that is our justification and it is good enough.
>You're eating it for no reason and thus harvesting it for no reason.
It has a decent caloric density and tastes pretty good as well. I doubt there is a good vegan analogy for a decent medium rare steak, and if there is or ever will be I'll gladly switch.

>>37305640
This is irrelevant for two reasons: 1) It's not about what you want, 2) These animals don't live for twenty years and the small amount of time they do live is in crapped, shitty conditions.

>>37305574
>There is absolutely nothing to debate
But there is, you are extremely ardently trying to push your agenda to people who do not agree with it. Isn't that exactly the way it was with the meme atheists a few years ago?

>>37305574
>Is it moral to murder someone unjustifiably in any culture?
Murder isn't, because the lack of socially accepted justification is part of the definition.
But killing is fine, some cultures do condone killing, for instance killing is acceptable in the United States.

>These things are what happens to animals and it's unmoral in any culture by any moralistic system
No, because animals do not have the same status as people do. Animals do not have rights, they are objects.
Even in the bible God tells Adam that he created the earth for him.

>>37305666

>It's not about what you want

But how do you know what the animal wants? Why assume it would rather not exist?

>> These animals don't live for twenty years and the small amount of time they do live is in crapped, shitty conditions.

I simply choose 20 years since that's roughly the time it takes for a human to fully develop. My answer wouldn't change if it was 40, 10 or 5 years.
I would not want to live in shitty conditions tough, I agree with you on that one. Hence my question: is it morally okay to raise animals for food in good conditions?

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>>37305635
You forgot the attachment desu

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>>37291371
Vegan and proud. I'll tell everyone that I'm vegan whenever the opportunity rises. Meat-eaters gonna get triggered anyway, why not reduce the risk of getting non-vegan gifts?

>>37305662
>No.
What did you imply then?


>that is our justification and it is good enough.
It's not though. There is nothing in meat you can't get elsewhere. >muh taste tho Is not an argument

>It has a decent caloric density
Are you trying to be fat? This is why vegans are in the healthy BMI range while meat eaters are the fattest

>tastes pretty good as wel
>rees about subjectivity
>employs subjectivity

>I doubt there is a good vegan analogy for a decent medium rare steak,
I wouldn't know. I don't eat substitutes. It also isn't an argument against veganism. Your inclination to taste something isn't justification for killing things. How fat are you?

>>37305682
>Isn't that exactly the way it was with the meme atheists a few years ago?
Moving the goalposts. You first argue it's about our demand for debate now claim that it's just me pushing my agenda. Make up your mind.

>for instance killing is acceptable in the United States.
Not without justification, which was part of my question and which you conveniently forgot about.

>No, because animals do not have the same status as people do
>MUH SPECIEISM

>they are objects.
They are living beings. Not objects. Objects are non-sentient and inanimate. Stop trying to be edgy.

>Even in the bible God
Don't ever do this.

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Anyone else get bullied for being vegan? I don't try and make my family do anything but they harass me all the time

>became vegan last year because I am concerned about climate change and the impacts of animal agriculture on the planets ability to support human life
>don't blame others who dont' do this or care as it isn't natural to not eat meat
>parents mock me anyway
>for example whenever they see me eating lima beans they will take some of the beans from the plate, dot them with black ink and say I cant eat them because they are cows
>sometimes they pour salt water into my barley soup and say that sea level rose despite my efforts
>tfe they mock me with the fact they enjoy meat

it is so unfair guys. they also call me 'proof of global wimping' because 'I am a wimpy baby'

>>37305736
>>37305736
>But how do you know what the animal wants? Why assume it would rather not exist?
Your argument is flawed. It is better to not act in such a situation and let the animal seek out its own end.

>I simply choose 20 years since that's roughly the time it takes for a human to fully develop
Okay? Why are you bringing it up then. It's not compatible with the topic.

>My answer wouldn't change if it was 40, 10 or 5 years.
I know you are arguing for something you've grown up with and probably never critically thought about which is completely acceptable. I was staunchly anti-vegan, thought they were faggots, thought it was unhealthy, thought it was stupid, humans were better, etc until I turned 24. But you don't have to just straight up lie to me dude.

>I would not want to live in shitty conditions tough, I agree with you on that one. Hence my question: is it morally okay to raise animals for food in good conditions?
No. What if I raised you in an environment you thoroughly enjoyed, without your knowledge, without education so you were stupid in a life you enjoyed. And one day I ended it in your prime. That wouldn't be morally justified.

Therefore it isn't morally justified to murder cows because you want to eat them just because you treated them really nicely before you violently slit their throats while they were conscious in front of their families.

any good resources on simple but nice vegan recipes lad?

>>37305796
Nope. Most people know better than to fuck with me over dumb shit. Besides, if I can btfo r9k nerds all day even when baked then I can shit on some normies at the table.

>>37305818
Try Cheap Lazy Vegan and The Vegan Corner. Some of their recipes are more decadent though

>>37305818
Try this, I came up with it the other day

Slaw:
Cabbage, shredded
Apple grated and squeezed of excess juice
Coriander, coarsely chopped
Walnuts, also coarsely chopped


Dressing
Half a cup of hummus
1 tbsp apple cider vinegar
1 tbsp american mustard
3 tablespoons of water
Juice of one orange
4 tbsps of olive oil
2 tbsps of sugar
Salt & Pepper to taste

Just combine all the ingredients from the dressing and pour over the slaw.

>>37305786
>Moving the goalposts. You first argue it's about our demand for debate now claim that it's just me pushing my agenda. Make up your mind.
Irrelevant. I am not making an argument, I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just sharing how I perceive the situation.

>Don't ever do this.
I think you don't get what was supposed to be.
The bible contains a very old set of values that played a significant role in human history.

>MUH SPECIEISM
Yes.
If there were a baby and dog about to die and you could only save one of them, which one would you choose? The child, because it's the same as you.

>Not without justification, which was part of my question and which you conveniently forgot about.
I addressed that. Murder is by definition wrong.

>They are living beings
"living" doesn't really mean an awful lot.

>Objects are non-sentient
Ok, then can you show that animals are sentient? Can you at least show that animals can communicate in a meaningful fashion?

>Objects are inanimate
But there are objects that do move, they're called machines.

>Stop trying to be edgy
Is it really, though?