***Christian General Thread***

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>>37208797
yo preacher boy, why did jesus stay on earth for 40 more days after he was resurrected?

>>37208933
Why not? He was just with the apostles and communicating with them. Also, if you read it from an exegetical point of view then you'de understand that he came in intervals. Like he would appear and disappear to them in intervals, not literally by staying with them as a man walking on earth but rather in spirit.

What happens when you're wife dies and you remarry? Do you get to fuck both your wives at once in heaven?

Christfaggotry is the biggest bluepill going

>>37209042
If my question isn't answered in 5 minutes I'm converting to islam

>>37209042
>What happens when you're wife dies, and you remarry?
Good question. In fact, Christ himself answered this question when the Pharisees and saducees asked him about this. You are not allowed to divorce your wife for any other reason besides sexual immorality IE unfaithfulness, cannot divorce. If someone does, however, he is guilty of adultery.

> Do you get to fuck both your wives at once in heaven?
In heaven, there will be no sex. You will be like the angels and souly be glorifying god. There will be one marriage between god and the church IE believers, and it will be an everlasting relationship.

Read matthew 19 for more info. it's nice and short.

>>37209042
23That day there came to him the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection; and asked him, 24Saying: Master, Moses said: If a man die having no son, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up issue to his brother. 25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first having married a wife, died; and not having issue, left his wife to his brother. 26In like manner the second, and the third, and so on to the seventh. 27And last of all the woman died also. 28At the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? for they all had her.

29And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven. 31And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken by God, saying to you: 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33And the multitudes hearing it, were in admiration at his doctrine.

>>37209076
How so? It was so redpilled that it caused the jews to want to crucify him. That is an ordinary reaction to a redpill since it is something that isn't easy to accept but is true.

>>37209146
Thanks for the support lad! I wrote the same here but wasn't given enough time because he said if I didn't answer him in 5 mins he would convert to islam.>>37209140

Christfags, I read a bit of genesis the other week and there's one part that made no sense to me.

>Noah (i think?) builds a vineyard with his clan, drinks a lil too much wine, and takes a nap in his tent nude
>2 of his sons find him nude and cover him with a blanket
>he wakes up pissed and curses one of his son's

What the fuck did God mean by this?

I wish christfag was still around here. He's a nice guy. He's probably sleeping now though, and last I saw him he was hanging out on /Christian/ on that chan.

>>37209182
The other son, Ham, laughed at Noe. Ham had no sense of piety or decorum.

>>37208797
If god loves me, why does he deny me a gf?

>Read OP
>Muh Sola Fide
Protestant general I see. Fucking heretic posers

>>37209140
Heaven sounds pretty awful.

>>37209228
You're the only one stopping yourself from getting a gf anon, god gives opportunities to strive towards your needs and desires but never hands you things on a golden platter.

Shit, I'm an atheist but that's like religion 101. God gave you the gym by your house to get /fit/, God gave you the chance to get to know that one chick better and a window to escalate things, God gave you this and that, it's up to you to work with the tools He gives you.

I like Cornell West a lot.

>>37209228
Because women are trouble. Virginity is a gift. Read De Virginitate by St. Augustine.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1310.htm

>>37209182
>What the fuck did God mean by this?
Yeah, not much information is given, but there is still room for speculation. Let's read, shall we.

>And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brothers outside.
Genesis 9:22

This might indicate that when Ham looked upon his father, he might have given a type of look that displeased Noah. Perhaps it was a sexual look. Further proof can be found in the NT.

>But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:28

So, if this is any way connected then one might assume that ham was looking at his father with lustful intent. Again this is speculation, but it's not improbable despite being quite lewd.

>>37209184
Whom is this christf*g?

>>37209228
Who says you're entitled to a girlfriend?

>>37209233
It's in the bible so why not believe it? In fact, there were 1st-century church fathers who even promoted the idea of Sola Fide.

>>37209234
Not to a true believer who truly loves god. If you want a heaven filled with woman and orgasm then join islam. You will be more than happy to hear what they believe the after life for believers will be like.

>>37209282
Why did he make me an socially retarded/ anxious autist who can never take advantage of those things?

Thanks for nothing, asshole.

>>37209311
>It's in the bible so why not believe it?
Because it's not, now fuck off. Burning Huguenots best day of my life

>tfw christian leftist

Its a good feel. I don't think people expect it. "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to god" is an important axiom for me.

>>37209300
>Because women are trouble
Yet every psychopathic tool gets rewarded with them and gets to populate the earth?

>>37209311
>Who says you're entitled to a girlfriend?
Genesis 9:7

"And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein"

How the FUCK am I supposed to multiply without a gf?

>>37208797
You like poetry? I've been trying to get into it, figure out how to write it

>>37209312
>Why did he make me
We live in a fallen world where such negative things such as autism, schizophrenia and other mental health problems. But the thing is we are trying to go to a place that has none of these negative aspects and to achieve that place you must first humble yourself to Christ.

>>37209333
Yeah, I am too but I think it;s jus due to humans deprived nature that we can't actually do these things. Communism would work if humans weren't so greedy.

>>37209311
>>37209217
I guess you gotta read it in ancient hebrew or something to get the proper meaning. I got a more sexual vibe from that passage when I tried interpreting it but I had no clue if it was because Ham molested Noah, if he just saw him nude or whatever.
I like the theory that he was disrespectful and went out of his way to look at Noah nude to mock him, feels a lot more wholesome than imagining this ancient biblical figure getting diddled in the bum.
>>37209312
>>37209344
I'm a socially anxious retard too anon, make do with what you have. Confidence really gets you places, don't put chicks on a pedestal. Loads of girls don't have nearly as high standards as you think. Present the best version of yourself (so shower, use deodorant, brush your teeth, and talk about your cool interests) and work on yourself from there.

>>37209384
That's not the point. The point is god betrayed me while rewarding literal criminals and assholes with everything.

>>37209325
Ok, a common assertion that I get by Roman Catholics is that the book of James refutes sola fide, but in fact it doesn't when we look deep into these verses you'd see that in fact, the very verses Roman Catholics use to disprove faith alone, in fact, reafirm its teachings whereas refuting some vague strawman notion of what they think sola fide is. Ok, let's look at James 2.

>What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
James 2:14

Also, let's check out Romans.

>For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Ephesians 2:8
Now, these may seem contradictory, but when you look deeper, you'd understand that they, in fact, can be harmonised.

When James says that faith without works is dead he, in fact, means that if your faith does not bring forth good fruits, then that faith cannot save. If someone claims to be a Christian but steals, lies and hurts others then that faith is a false faith. If we look deeper into James, it says this.

>But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
James 2:18

This gives us a better picture and in fact, shows that our works flow from our faith and give evidence for it. But theoretically, you could go out stealing, murdering and committing adultery you would still go heaven because you have been justified by faith but do you know why you wouldn't? Because you are being sanctified by God and we would never do that because we have the love for God, which God has put into us. also read: >>37154315

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>>37208797
Are there any Catholics in here?
How do I go about converting? The proddie church I grew up in has unfortunately become undesirable, and I'd like a church with a stronger moral and historical backbone.

>>37209379
Yeah, but mine were all emo though. Not sure it's the type of poetry you're looking for.

>>37209409
He didn't betray you at all. You betrayed him. Also, who are these "criminals and assholes" you speak of?

>>37209344
Well, you've gotta look into the context. That was was said to Adam and Eve when there were literally only two people in the entire world. So yeah, they had to be fruitful and multiply but that doesn't mean you have to do it now. In fact, Paul was celibate his entire life.

>>37209441
>He didn't betray you at all. You betrayed him
>stay faithful and walk a righeous path in life
>get shat on for it

>who are these "criminals and assholes" you speak of?
Ted Bundy, James Holmes, degenerate chads with dark triad personalities, drug addicts, drug traffickers, etc.

Let's face it, even god hates betas.

>>37209441
I want to write something dedicated to God, is why I bring it up. I want to produce works for God, I feel guilty doing nothing all the time

>>37209344
You are overvaluing women. Most men use women wrongly, which leads to misery and suffering. If you have never experienced the pleasures of a woman, it's easy to assume that's the cause of all your unhapiness, but you'll find only fleeting pleasures. There is no lasting hapiness in women or any other created good for that matter.

Christianity is the strongest meme magic.

These guys made up these stories and people believed them.

What is it about Christianity that gets people so upset? Whenever anyone brings it up anywhere (especially here), people get fucking pissed

>>37209436
>The proddie church I grew up in has unfortunately become undesirable,
Sorry to hear that. But perhaps you can find another reformed church to join.

>stronger moral and historical backbone.
A lot of Protestant teachings have in fact been promoted by the Catholic church until it was later then disregarded. And by disregarding it they also disregarded a part of their own history when they condemned the Protestant movement,

>>37209463
Look dude, those assholes who live sad pathetic lives can get shallow starfuckers and gold diggers. If the standard for "muh pussy" is so low imagine what someone who lives a proper life could accomplish. "God" or whoever you believe in gave you your values and positive personality traits, instead of neglecting them like those assholes use them properly and get a proper girlfriend.
Some inbred village bimbo who fucks El Chapo because he has money is not a good wife and is not something to be envious of. Get yourself out of that self loathing rut, work on yourself FOR YOU (not just 4 pussy), and shit will fall together. Nobody really cares if you are awkward besides assholes. I hang out with a bunch of Chads and they couldn't care less about my robot tendencies

>>37209461
If pious men remain celibate, only scumbags will reproduce and turn god's planet into complete shit. Ever think of that, genius?

>>37209478
Nah. Pretty sure god's just an asshole who enjoys betas' suffering.

>>37209148
people reacting violently to what you say isn't a marker that it's true, just that it might be a threat. Christian cosmology just reflects ideas developed by intelligent but ultimately more ignorant people than ourselves.

>>37209387
That's exactlt right. It's hard to understand a work like Genesis being so removed from the (probably much more honor-based) culture and language. I don't think in this case there's any implication that Ham did anything physical to his father. In similar episodes, especially with Lot and his daughters, it's explicitly stated that sexual activity occurred.

>>37209463
>stay faithful and walk a righteous path in life
>get shat on for it
But if you persevere till the end you will get a better reward than those guys ever did.

>ed Bundy, James Holmes, degenerate chads with dark triad personalities, drug addicts, drug traffickers, etc.
Yeah, but where are they now. They're in a pit weeping and gnashing their teeth. But you can save yourselves from that by obeying God and getting a gift that is far better than what they ever had!

>>37209546
Jesus didn't die for pious men, he sacrificed himself so that the wretched and the poor and the liars and the wife-beaters and the terrified and the sociopathic might be saved, giving them a way to fix the pain within them. All that is required of a sinner to turn pious is opening their heart to the words of our Lord

>>37209582
I think you're focusing too much on other earthly rewards rather than the born again experience. You may continually be shat on all your life as a Christian, but there is no greater satisfaction in this world that can be derived than knowing with the utmost confidence that you are good, and that all your sacrifices are for a good Lord and to save others from their misery

>>37209470
That's great you should do that. I used to write mine of Tumblr and go on some subreddit where they would critique my poems.

>>37209482
>These guys made up these stories, and people believed them.
I highly doubt. These people who you said made up the stories are the same ones who even died for their so-called "lies." Now I ask you, would you die for a lie?

>>37209482
Religion does a lot of good for these people, if something inspires a person to reflect on their values and find beauty in life then what's the harm in the "lie"?

>>37209414
James says that faith without works does not save. The Lutheran doctrine of sola fide says not that "there is no faith without works" but rather that faith saves regardless of works, which is contrary to your argument, and contrary to what James says.

Even Romans teaches that works are necessary for salvation.

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Your problem is that you assume Paul's emphasis is arguing against Catholics rather than Pharisaical Jews. The Pharisaical Jews did not believe in salvation by works (not that that is really an accurate description of what Catholics believe anyway), so interpreting a book like Galatians or Romans as being screeds against "works-salvation" is nonsensical. It is not sufficient merely to believe in Christ's teaching. It is also necessary to follow it.

>>37209513
I don't know. I think religion is just something all everyone has an opinion on. I think even stacies and chads think about this topic a lot because it is just innate in us humans.

>>37209546
>If pious men remain celibate, only scumbags will reproduce and turn god's planet into complete shit.
No one said pious men had to remain celibate. Just that you don't have to follow the OT law that you have to be fruitful and multiply.

>>37209578
Sure but I still think that it is redpilled because it is true.

>>37209644
>I think you're focusing too much on other earthly rewards rather than the born again experience.
I think you responded to the wrong guy. I'm trying to tell him that. This comment is better targeted at >>37209463

>>37209546
If when you die you received the crown of virginity, and saw that Brad and Chad had received the righteous judgment of God for their lives of unrepentant fornication, would you still feel that way?

>>37209655
All the apostles made up these stories and it gave them power. They lied and died for power.

These are the same men who let their god died and pretended not to know him.

And b4 Jesus made them...yeah who told you that? Of they did in the book they made up.

>>37209785
Most of the apostles died in lands far from their homes, surrounded by people who couldn't even speak the same language. I highly doubt their lives were that luxury after Jesus, especially dealing with persecution and the squabbles of the newly formed church

>>37209744
>No one said pious men had to remain celibate. Just that you don't have to follow the OT law that you have to be fruitful and multiply.

"Be fruitful and multiply" isn't part of the OT Law (specifically the Mosaic Law), but it was never an absolute commandment to begin with. Marrying and producing children is good. However, failing to produce children is not necessarily a moral failing, and can even be a greater good because chastity is a spiritual good.
Of course, a virgin who just replaces 3d women with hentai and trap porn is no better off.

>>37209744
>Sure but I still think that it is redpilled because it is true.
It obviously isn't true, to be blunt. It's a cultural phenomenon, based around very human understandings of history and the world. Nothing in it is divinely inspired, you can even see how different ideas were accepted and developed over time. It's just mythology at the end of the day, the "blue pill" comes in the willful delusion that it's all true.

>>37209716
>James says that faith without works does not save.
it is talking about fruits of faith.

>The Lutheran doctrine of sola fide says not that "there is no faith without works" but rather that faith saves regardless of works, which is contrary to your argument, and contrary to what James says.
Yeah, the thing about Luther is that he didn't have all the ideas laid out yet. He slowly discovered t until it became what it was today. Try reading his later stuff and not earlier stuff. If you read his early material, then you'd understand that he, in fact, believe in the immaculate conception whereas he denies it later in his writings.

>6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
This is talking about final justification. After the day of judgement when you have come in Christ God will see if you bare fruits and if you have not then you were never truly saved in the fist place.

>7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
>8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Ok, understand the difference between descriptive texts and prescriptive texts. There are some texts which God prescribes us to do things, e.g., Matthew 4:17 and Acts 3:19. But there are also descriptive texts. These are text which describes a true believer such as the one you quoted. If someone is truly justified he will do good works and bring forth good fruits, but it is due to God working within them.

>And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:6

Cont...

>>37209693
It can do a lot more than that friend. I know what you are saying but its not that simple.

The crusade, the jihads, people will kill for this stuff. It can destroy families. Break up communities. That's just the beginning.

>b4 then they aren't true Christians/Muslims/jews/Hindus/whatever

>>37209842
Yeah, you're right but I was just trying to tell him that, but you explained it in a far superior way than I did.

>>37209845
>It's a cultural phenomenon, based around very human understandings of history and the world.
Proof.

>you can even see how different ideas were accepted and developed over time.
Through the careful and thorough reading of scripture.

>It's just mythology
There is far too much proof to say it's all myth.

>>37209922
>he thinks the crusades and Muslim conquests were about religion
Shiggydiggy

desu senpai

>>37209758
Yes. I didn't get to experience something that everyone but a negligible minority in the world has experienced.

Getting laid is part of becoming a complete being which was made by the lord.

>>37209922
Nigger people wage war and kill each other over anything. If there wasn't religious we'd still have crusades and jihads, they'd just dress it up as something else.

>>37209716
>Your problem is that you assume Paul's emphasis is arguing against Catholics rather than Pharisaical Jews.
Nope, I'm just reading the text in their context.

>The Pharisaical Jews did not believe in salvation by works
Yes, the did. That is why they tried to keep the OT law and tried to be jsutfied by it despite it being done away with by christ.

>interpreting a book like Galatians or Romans as being screeds against "works-salvation" is nonsensical.
Refute it then. Also, a bare in mind that early church fathers also confessed to faith alone prior to Luther.

>>37209837
You doubt or you know?

Every Christian would have worshipped them. They would have been fed and cloths and everything else.

>>37209436
Generally, you would just contact the parish office and they would give you the requirements. I must warn you that you may find the Catholic church in your area little better than than whatever Protestant church you are leaving. However, no matter how bad any local church is, the Catholic faith will always remain true.

>>37209993
No you can't assume that as true. We can assume without religion we wouldn't have had those things tho. It gave those people a reason and justification.

Religion can make a person do crazy things. Things they wouldn't have done otherwise.

You nigger.

>>37210002
You do understand there weren't many Christians around to wank them off, right? They went to Spain, England, fucking India, trying to spread the way. The ones that stayed in the Mediterranean tried to organize what few followers they had, trying very desperately not to fuck up Christ's teachings in the first few years of the religion

>>37210094
>Religion can make a person do crazy things. Things they wouldn't have done otherwise.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that the religion is the thing that caused it. Look at Mao, would you use that as evidence as to why atheism is immoral?

>>37210094
So does fear, starvation, and mob mentality. You don't need a god to motivate a population to do crazy shit. The entire history of the USSR and socialism proves this.

>>37209959
The beheading I seen linked here were sure about religion.

People sure died today at an ariana grande concert because of religion.

Teens kill themselves because of religion.

Even Jesus was murdered for religion.

But your right ....what's the harm?

>>37209311
>Whom is this christf*g?
Clearly someone who's been here longer than you have, newfag.

>>37210136
But they had followers, thousands of them. It was the fastest growing religion, it was spreading like wildfire. That can go to a persons head. Just look at the church now.

>>37209949
>Proof.
It's an observation, there isn't anything to suggest it is magical or tells us the words of God. Scripture is written by people, with a human understanding of events. This isn't really debated by christfags.

>Through the careful and thorough reading of scripture.
Yes, that is a big part of it. The Bible is an excellent source for deducing the belief systems of people in the area, including related peoples like the Phoenicians. It's not the only source though, we can see how political events with greater powers like Persia influenced Israeli beliefs, and that archaeological evidence indicates how Judaism broke from earlier polytheistic beliefs. It's like how similarities in Celtic mythology are analysed, we see names in Irish mythology popping up on Gaulish inscriptions but we different connotations.

>There is far too much proof to say it's all myth.
There's pretty much no proof dude.

>>37210220
I'll have you know that I have been on this site for over a year now, so check yourself before you wreck yourself. Also, can you link me to one of his desu archives to something?

>>37210137
Yes it is the thing that caused it. They literally said they did it for god. People have and will kill for god And their religious beliefs. That isn't a what if.

I don't know about Mao. We aren't talking about atheist.

>>37209912
I don't agree with that assumption. I know many Calvinists, and it's not true that they never sin. If a Calvinist commits adultery, are they saved? I don't think so. The point is, can someone be a "true believer" and ultimately be lost? A Catholic would say so. A Calvinist says that such a person was never a true believer ever.

The NT is a long book. Of course a Calvinist will interpret each verse through a Calvinist lens. If a verse speaks of mortal sin, a Calvinist would say that it is only speaking of non-Christians, or even that it is speaking of something that could never really happen. For example, Romans 8

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

A Calvinist would say this is true because all true believers necessarily persevere in mortifying the deeds of the flesh. That is not thenplaib reading however. Even Christians who do not mortify the deeds of the flesh are damned.

>>37210280
>It's an observation
Not really since when Christianity was created, it was very far from the norm. If it was made up then by some cultural phenomenon as you claim then it would be far different. The beliefs and things the church was confessing were absolutely unique and different and cannot be found in any other belief of its time or prior.

>This isn't really debated by christfags.
Well, I am.

>we can see how political events with greater powers like Persia influenced Israeli beliefs
Such as?

>There's pretty much no proof dude.
can give you plenty of proof!

Oh, sorry I didn't see this so sorry for the late reply. But this is too wide of a topic for me to simply prove. You can choose from these, and I will answer accordingly.

Resurrection - did it happen?
Textual criticism - are they authentic
Prophecies - does the bible prove future events
and
Mythicism - did Jesus exist

There are other things I might not have mention put just ask, and I will answer accordingly.

>>37210156
No, no you don't need religion to start a war or do bad things. What is your point?

The fact is people HAVE used it to do bad things.

>>37210336
>They literally said they did it for god.
Yeah, but anyone can claim that. But what you have to do is rpove from their main soucre that it is a a doctrine they believe.

>I don't know about Mao. We aren't talking about atheist.
My point was that can you use atheism as an excuse as to why Mao killed millions or people, a number that makes Hitler's 6 million look trivial.

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>>37210292
>I'll have you know that I have been on this site for over a year now, so check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Aren't you a cutie. You're a pretentious fuck who doesn't understand this place nor its culture. Probably underage as well just going through his religious phase.

>>37210460
With you until
>Culture
This place has no culture anymore, you're retarded if you think otherwise. They should rename soc "soc general", let this place be the /v/ to their /VG/

>>37210346
>If a Calvinist commits adultery, are they saved?
Well, as you said earlier a Calvinist says that such a person was never a true believer ever. That's the thing, but also, a believer can experience backsliding where they begin to move away but in the end due to God guarding them in the faith will never fall away.

>and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are protected by God's power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:4-5

>Of course, a Calvinist will interpret each verse through a Calvinist lens.
We also use church history to prove that it was, in fact, a belief that was promoted prior to Luther. In fact, it was even promoted by Catholics until it was later disregarded, which make papal infallibility questionable. But then again we let the sculpture speak and understand that the gospel is a God centred book and not man centred.

>Even Christians who do not mortify the deeds of the flesh are damned.
Perhaps a verse or two on this.

>>37210460
I'm not underage, I'm 18, and I have been going through this "phase" for such a long that it is hardly a phase anymore. Also, I got 4chans culture pretty quick. It isn't really that hard to get.

>>37210434
Did Mao use atheism as his reason?

And yes anyone can say it but there are people who really do things because they believe god or the bible or both told them to or it changed their way of thinking.

Did the Jews not want Jesus dead because of their religion?

>>37210575
>Did the Jews not want Jesus dead because of their religion
Not really, they felt threatened that he was empowering the common folk too much. Jesus was killed for almost entirely political reasons gussied up to look like it was a matter of faith

>>37210575
>Did Mao use atheism as his reason?
Doesn't matter. Due to them going by the subjective morality they did things that cost tons of people their lives.

>there are people who really do things because they believe God or the Bible or both told them to or it changed their way of thinking.
Sure, but as I said before, does this come from a reading of their own text or have they misinterpreted it and came to false conclusions. Those people that did the Crusades are probably not in heaven right now and are probably paying for their crimes although it was in the name of Christ.

>Did the Jews not want Jesus dead because of their religion?
Yes, but due to the fact that they did not know what was written in the scriptures and that he was, in fact, god himself.

>>37210380
>Resurrection - did it happen?
No
>Textual criticism - are they authentic
they were certainly written
>Prophecies - does the bible prove future events
No unless you use a very liberal definition of predict
and
>Mythicism - did Jesus exist
Yes

>>37210000
>Yes, the did. That is why they tried to keep the OT law and tried to be jsutfied by it despite it being done away with by christ.

The main heresy that Paul was arguing against in Romans was that salvation belonged to Jews on account of belonging to Jewry, the chosen people. You're misunderstanding the point of things like circumcision and temple sacrifices. Circumcision and sacrifices weren't human works that rendered God's mercy unnecessary. Circumcision was a covenant ritual by which God freely adopted people into his covenant people. Likewise, there is nothing intrinsic to animal sacrifices that atones for sins. They were arbitrary rituals that God appointed. Pharisees understood that God freely forgave them, not that they sacrificed animals to avoid needing God's mercy. In fact, if you look at modern rabbinical Jews, they do not even have any sacrifices anymore. This is why Jesus affirms the teaching of the Pharisees but spends the Gospels pointing out their hipocrisy. They followed the outward letter of the law, but inwardly were wicked people. Paul teaches the same thing. The gentiles that fulfill the spirit of the law are Jews inwardly and their hearts are circumcised.

>Also, a bare in mind that early church fathers also confessed to faith alone prior to Luther.

No they didn't. Even where the phrase "faith alone" is used, it is never meant in a Lutheran/Protestant sense. For instance, Thomas Aquinas uses the phrase "justified by faith alone," but even a passing familiarity with his writings would show you that his view of justification is not Calvinist or Lutheran.

>>37210550
It's more like we're overrun with immigrants. I still see a lot of parts of this place that remind me of 2012 and 2013 /r9k/. A lot of greentexts and feels threads, and autistic NEETs being autistic NEETs. Here's a hint: /r9k/ has always been /soc/ lite, there have always been rate me threads. The only different thing now is that people use that gay IRC for normies thing instead of smallchat.

>>37210556
>I'm not underage, I'm 18, and I have been going through this "phase" for such a long that it is hardly a phase anymore. Also, I got 4chans culture pretty quick. It isn't really that hard to get.
This reminds me of me when I first came to 4chan over half a decade ago. Those were the days. I bet you don't even know what sage is, or how it's supposed to be used. Go hit up ED and read a bit. There's more to this site than you think.

I prescribe you more lurk, doctors orders.

>>37210659
>Resurrection - did it happen?
It in fact probably did happen. There is in fact, a lot of evidence for it and even the case for the empty tomb passes the criteria of embarrassment.

>they were certainly written
Ok, pass on this

>No unless you use a very liberal definition of predict
Well, what could be enough for you? The Bible predicts many "specific" things that would happen.

>worshipping a jew
fucking kek. how bluepilled can you get?

>>37210556
>I'm saying that it is the more plain reading of the verse. The problem is that any verse that says "do X and go to hell" you would say that anyone who does X was never a true believer.

A good passage to consider is in Hebrews 10, which reads in part,

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

This is clearly talking about Christians (those sanctified by Christ's blood), but it also says that Christians who do what Paul is talking about are damned. A very mainstream Calvinist reading is that Paul is describing an impossible situation, but this is not the plain reading.

>We also use church history to prove that it was, in fact, a belief that was promoted prior to Luther. In fact, it was even promoted by Catholics until it was later disregarded, which make papal infallibility questionable. But then again we let the sculpture speak and understand that the gospel is a God centred book and not man centred.

The Catholic Church only taught sola fide prior to Luther if you consider the modern Catholic doctrine to be sola fide. The most pre-eminent Latin early Church father is St. Augustine, and he did not teach sola fide.

>>37210652
Yes it does matter. I can blame religion because the people literally said they did those things for their religion.

I can't blame atheism because he never said he did that for atheism.
Atheist also don't have a believe system like Christians Jews Muslims ect.


And in their hearts they did believe in god, they did believe that what they were doing was right. If they were doing wrong, god forgive them because... they do not know what they do.

>>37210684
>Paul was arguing against in Romans was that salvation belonged to Jews
I brought up Ephesians though. But let's look deeper.

>>For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Ephesians 2:8

Grace means giving a sinful people mercy as well as an extra gift on top IE grace. This grace has power and delivers people from being enemies of god to being god's people. Also, the phasre "by grace yoou have been saved" in the greek is "sesosmenoi," which is in the perfect tense meaning that it is fully secure, an idea repeated in 1 Peter 1:5

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>>37210720
>It in fact probably did happen. There is in fact, a lot of evidence for it and even the case for the empty tomb passes the criteria of embarrassment.
The criterion of embarrassment is incredibly weak, mostly used because without it there is nothing to discuss. It's not evidence.
Somebody coming back from the dead is an absolutely extraordinary claim, there is no way the "dude they wouldn't just make it up" criterion passes.

>>37210877
More on Augustine, this is the first search result I found for "Augustine sola fide."

http://www.willcoxson.net/faith/augprot2.htm

I'd post excerpts myself, but I'm on a phone. If you look up the cited passages (CCEL or NewAdvent), you'll see examples of Augustine teaching things that do not square with sola fide and you might reconsider what you said earlier. Basically, if Augustine did not teach sola fide, the imperial and medieval Church sis not either.

>>37210877
>Hebrews 10,
Why are you bringing up a verse that even refutes catholicism which states that one can gain and lose justification multiple times? Also, you are reading it wrong since if that was the case then king David would never have been able to regain his right standing with god after committing adultery.

>>37210989
> "dude they wouldn't just make it up" criterion passes.
That is not, in fact, the criteria of embarrassment. An example of it would be the fact that the one's who found the empty tomb were women. In ancient culture, a woman's testimony was worth nothing, and the fact that a woman was the one who found the empty tomb made it out to false by the lenses of ancient people. In fact, the credibility of Christianity was in fact, targeted because of this by ancient people because of the fact that their main witness for the empty tomb was a woman. Also, yeah, the criteria of embarrassment isn't' infallible. There is no such thing as an infallible criteria, but it gives us evidence for the most likely thing to be true. If you're gonna lie about yourself, it is most likely gonna be something that would make your story out to be true and make you seem like a hero, not vice versa and it is something that in fact, make you look less credible in the eyes of the ancient world.

>>37210923
Right, but Catholics don't deny that salvation is due entirely to grace. That's not where the difference lies. Catholics believe it is possible to receive grace, but not finally persevere (i.e. grace that is sufficient, but not efficacious). Furthermore, someone can fall from grace and later be restored to grace (which is itself a gift of God's grace). Calvinists believe that grace is an all-or-nothing proposition. Someone who has grace never falls from grace. Anyone who falls never had grace to begin with. They had only the illusion of grace. If you want to understand Catholic views of grace, a good book is Predestination by Fr. Reginal Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.

This aspect of the Calvinist view of grace is problematic because their is no objective assurance of salvation. The subjective experience and outward actions of someone who hasreal grace and someone who has fake grace are identical. This is in distinction to the objective signs of the Catholic sacraments.

>>37211100
>That is not, in fact, the criteria of embarrassment
It's an exaggeration, the point is that it's totally tenuous.

>>37210997
I interpret "if we sin" to mean persisting in sin rather than committing a single act of sin.

>>37211141
I have recently started to study Roman Catholicism, and after studying one of the core beliefs, a question was raised in my head.
One big difference between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism is the value of faith alone as opposed to works, faith and God's grace working together in a synergistic way to bring about your salvation, which would be the Catholic view.
This then brings me to my question. What was Christ's purpose when dying on the cross. As a Protestant I believe that he died for my sins, all of them and for once and for all and so there is nothing I can possibly do to add on to that perfect sacrifice. So then I ask you if you believe that we must do good works to stay saved and committing mortal sins, which Christ died for, can make us lose that salvation then what did Christ accomplish on the cross then if there are things that we can do to lose salvation, and there are sins that we must repent for. Didn't Christ die for all sins?

>>37211156
>the point is that it's totally tenuous.
We say "they would never make it up" for a reason not just because we wanna fill in a whole.

>>37211161
I would agree to but the thing is I don't think catholicism makes sense; read:>>37211164

i'm no christfag but i like to read this verse from bible in times of trouble. maybe you guys would like to do it also, read and make parallels to your life or just read it i dunno.

8.But if I go to the east, he is not there;
if I go to the west, I do not find him.
9.When he is at work in the north, I do not see him;
when he turns to the south, I catch no glimpse of him.
10.But he knows the way that I take;
when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold.
11.My feet have closely followed his steps;
I have kept to his way without turning aside.
12.I have not departed from the commands of his lips;
I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.
13.But he stands alone, and who can oppose him?
He does whatever he pleases.
14.He carries out his decree against me,
and many such plans he still has in store.
15.That is why I am terrified before him;
when I think of all this, I fear him.
16.God has made my heart faint;
the Almighty has terrified me.
17.Yet I am not silenced by the darkness,
by the thick darkness that covers my face.

>>37211164
Catholic doctrine holds that Christ atoned for all sins, but that the fruits of Christ's sacrifice have to applied to individuals. This is not really different from Protestantism. The typical Evangelical believes that the fruits of Christ's sacrifice are only applied to an individual at the moment the individual comes to saving faith. That doesn't mean that the Evangelical is adding to the "finished work of Christ" by their act of believing. Catholics, however, do not believe that grace cannot be lost, so baptism applies forgiveness of sins committed prior to baptism, penance forgives sins committed afterwards. Someone who is baptised but dies in unrepentant mortal sin would be damned. That's not because Christ's sacrifice was insufficient to cover the unrepented sins, but because that forgiveness was never accepted on the part of the sinner.

>>37211332
Job is a weird book for me

Also Kevin pls go

>>37211402
>Catholic doctrine holds that Christ atoned for all sins
But how can that be the case when once you have sinned you have to atone for it again? What did Christ really die for? Did he just die for the sins you had currently or for all of them: past, present and future?

>Catholics, however, do not believe that grace cannot be lost, so baptism applies forgiveness of sins committed prior to baptism
Again, all these acts make it seem as though Christs death on the cross was meaningless if we can just have our sins forgiven in other ways. Did he really need to do? Also, was his death on the cross any more special than the sacrifice of the lambs in the OT if other things can be added?

>Someone who is baptised but dies in unrepentant mortal sin would be damned.
So, what did christ die for?

>That's not because Christ's sacrifice was insufficient to cover the unrepented sins, but because that forgiveness was never accepted on the part of the sinner.
Expand.

>>37211404
my name is matthew ooriginaly

>>37211206
There is a book called "The Drama of Salvation" by Jimmy Akin. He comes from a Calvinist background, so he might write in a way that is clearer for a Calvinist reader. If you're putting together a reading list for your study of Roman Catholicism, that would be a good one to add.

>>37211608
Thank you, anon. I will be sure to look into it, god willing!

>>37211520
Maybe Jesus was just a regular man and Just died just because.

Maybe he was a phrophet like the Muslims say and the NT is wrong or just made up.

Maybe the Jews were right and Jesus wasn't divine.

>>37211688
>Maybe Jesus was just a regular man and Just died just because.
Highly doubt. He died for a reason, and it was even prophesied of him in the OT. Also, he gave some very stark teachings in the NT, and it would be mistakable to simply say he died for no reason. Also, why would you lay down your life for no reason?

>Maybe he was a prophet like the Muslims say, and the NT is wrong or just made up.
History says otherwise.

>Maybe the Jews were right and Jesus wasn't divine.
Yep, he was.

What are you trying to prove by this?

>>37211520
Christ died only once, so receiving forgiveness for prior sins twice in one's life doesn't mean that Christ died for only half of your sins. Christ paid for all sins, even for those that had not been committed, but in baptism or penance, we aren't forgiven for sins we haven't even committed (yet). In the case of penance, how can you repent of a sin you never even did?

Sacraments are not in place of Christ's sacrifice. They are channels of the grace purchased by Christ's sacrifice. Without Christ's sacrifice, baptism is just water. An analogy would be if I said to an Evangelical Protestant that belief should not be necessary because it is just adding to the finished work of Christ. If Christ already paid for all my sins, why do I have to add my belief to that? Is believing sufficient to take the place of Christ's sacrifice. That may sound like an absurd argument to you, but that's how your objection sounds from a Catholic perspective.

>>37209968
You don't understand, you literally see the people who mocked you and enjoyed life at your expense thrown into eternal fire as you are praised and rewarded for your chastity, and enter into blissful afterlife.

>>37211768
>If Christ already paid for all my sins, why do I have to add my belief to that?
By believing you have gained the benefits of Christ's death but according to you once you have benefited from christ death you can lose justification through venial and mortal sins, which makes it seem as though Christ's death on the cross only atoned for present sins. This would also mean that he did not, in fact, die for all sins but instead present ones. Perhaps I don't fully understand your position but this was the main component of catholicism that I could not accept, among other things.

>>37211768
Also, if you could explain this to me then perhaps I would consider roman catholicism.

>>37211751
There's a phrophecy? Tell me it. The full thing.

>>37211898
Read Isaiah 53. It's very clear that it is talking about Jesus Christ!

Jesus didn't save anyone. On the contrary, he doomed many to hell.

Everyone was blameless before he came along, now people are doomed.

>>37211926
Show me here please.

Show us all the prophecy of Jesus our lord.

Do it for all of us. Do it for Jesus.

Show us.

>>37211950
>Jesus didn't save anyone.
Yes, he did!

>On the contrary, he doomed many to hell.
God doesn't send anyone to hell. He only saves. We send ourselves to hell.

>Everyone was blameless before he came along, now people are doomed.
Everyone?

>>37211997
Yup for they did not know the good news!

There was no bible to tell them right or wrong. How were they suppose to know?

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I've got some questions for you ChristFag. How come god let my mother have 3 miscarriages? How come god lets kids be abused all over the world? How come god lets his so-called children kill eachother? How come there's no real peace? Why's there mental illnesses? I'm sure you'll just say it's the devil that causes all bad in the world. To that I must ask, if a god can not protect his creations from harm then what good is worshipping him?

>>37212032
It was told to them. There were a lot of things that weren't made clear yet and later on revealed in the NT. This doesn't mean that they got a free pass just that from what was revealed to them they had to believe.

>>37208797
why's this shit here shouldn't you be in like /pol/ or /b/ or wherever the fuck this shit goes, I mean you can keep beeing religious and all that, cool for you but why here with robots? eazy prospect souls to claim or why?

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I want Jesus to fill me with thick globs of the Holy Spirit.

>>37212073
I'm just spreading the message of the gospel.
>>37212073
>>37212094
Also, if there are any question you like answered then feel free to as, and I will answer to the best of my abilities, God willing.

>>37212094
What made someone make this picture? Also is she jerking his knee?

>>37212094
Also, why is it a black girl in your pic?

>>37212114
kek, that was what i thought but looked a bit closer.

>>37212073
God preys on the weak and depressed. He waits till you are at your lowest then steals your soul. Oh im sorry, ppl are tricked and manipulated into giving it away.What better place?

This is not one of his best demons though.christanon is pretty weak. His main thing is because the bible says so. He use to be Muslim or something so he has switched faiths before and it is shaket.

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Do you think jesus ever fucked his crucifixion wounds?

>>37212135
Lol, I don't just say the bible says so. I also give extra-biblical evidence for my beliefs. Also, thanks for keeping note of me. You seem to be reading my thread posts, which I appreciate. Also, if there are any question you like answered then feel free to as, and I will answer to the best of my abilities, God willing.

>>37212072
It was told to them? You mean that thing the Jewish ppl followed then Jesus came and told them different?

>>37212162
No, if there are any question you like answered then feel free to as, and I will answer to the best of my abilities, God willing.

>Jesus came and told them different?
What differently?

>>37212166
I'm still waiting on the Jesus prophecy.

>>37212166
I just think you are kind of cute, that's all.

>>37212191
rSorry for the wait. I was answering other people's questions because I thought they would be shorter. Again like I said, Isaiah 53.

Isaiah 53:3-5

Tell me who is that talking about?

>>37212206
Really? Thanks! I really needed the self-esteem boost and I have been feeling down for quite a while now.

>>37212239
No post it here cutie. please so we can all see. Link us at least. I don't see why you wouldn't show us tho.

>>37212239
I prefer Austin 3:16

>>37212285
Ah, ok. checkout here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+53

>>37210292
>a whole year
Awww look at the little babby.... I've been on here for 6 years and even I wouldn't try to put out damage control if someone called me a newfag. Dumb christcuck.

>>37212357
Don't judge me man. Also, what more is there to learn? Did you know that moot was called a newfag?

>>37212308
From that Jesus was deformed in face and body???
And his whole life would have been horrible?

That sounds nothing like the story of Jesus.

That doesn't sound like a prophecy either.

Where's the one about the warrior king?

>>37212383
It also says god will make his offspring live a long time.

Jesus had kids? This disfigured Jesus beyond human likeness found a wife and had kids?

>>37212182
How do you know he didn't fuck his hand gashes? It's not like you were there.

>>37212383
>From that Jesus was deformed in face and body???
Yes, that is the of the things about Jesus. He wasn't good looking at all. You see western media tries to portray a certain idea of Jesus. They make him a white blonde haired blue eyed man, but in reality, he probably looked like the type of guy that if you saw in an airport, you would search him extra. Most Bible scholars know this, and it isn't a surprise.

>And his whole life would have been horrible?
It was. The guy saw man's sin face up and even was crucified and given up by his own friends for money. Plus Peter denied him three times. He didn't live a very lavish life. When he was born King Herod tried to kill him, so he and his family moved to Egypt for a while. All this would only be news to a person who has never actually read the bible.

>That sounds nothing like the story of Jesus.
It does!

>That doesn't sound like a prophecy either.
It is. It's talking about a coming messiah that is Christ.

>Where's the one about the warrior king?
Whom is that?

>>37212428
>It also says God will make his offspring live a long time.
Doesn't say that. Perhaps you're referring to the blessing that was given to Abraham about him having "many" children then that is true.

>Jesus had kids? This disfigured Jesus beyond human likeness found a wife and had kids?
Nope, as far as we know from the NT.

>>37212470
So? I doubt he had his hand gashes when he was dead. His body had those holes not his spirit.

>It's not like you were there.
Don't have to be. This act would be lustful and sinful. And God does not sin.