Can't deal with internet politics

I totally know that feel bro. This shit really stresses me out. The internet is very different than it used to be. I miss when it was just autistic atheists debating trailer trash. Now we have a culture war going on thats consuming everything. Its really exhausting

Yep. I avoid it as much as I can now.

>>36902883
Anyone who participates in Internet politics is pretty much guaranteed to be a moron honestly

I wish they would all be secluded in their own little corner of some garbage site to scream at each other

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Politics are a huge drag. I only take part in it because I have to.

>>36902883
Iktf. I hate how even video game lobbies are arguing about communism

things are only overly political in daily dialogue when a major ideological rift forms between large percentages of the population. never a good sign. i like politics but this is bad.

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>>36902883
Yeah I'm fucking sick of it.

I went to the Trump rallies and got attacked by ANTIFA and all that shit. Total /pol/tard, but I am just SICK of hearing about it.

Facebook
>Every normie faggot crying about Trump
YouTube
>a bunch of annoying "right-wing" e-celebs who will probably be onto a completely new trend in 3 years
Twitter
>a bunch of nasty retarded minorities and SJW faggots knocking down strawman arguments of "WHITE PEOPLEZ"
College
>TRUMP REEEEEEEE


Don't wanna talk about it or hear about it anymore. I understand that we are in a paradigm shift so shit is kind of off the rails at the moment, but holy shit have some manners and don't just talk about it 24/7 everywhere all the time.

>>36902883

>tfw you used to be a liberal live and let live kind of guy whose only care was vidya and art
>tfw SJWs steal your vidya from you and turn it to shit
>tfw that started you on the path to becoming an unironic /pol/tard

I remember the good old days

>>36903153
Do you really? Every time you do, you further contribute to the problem

>>36903178
My least favourite is when someone brings up feminism while playing vidya. Always creates a shitstorm or makes stuff awkward. God forbid someone brings up gamergate even though its been like 3 years. Internet politics are a real drag

>>36902883
>now a reactionary movement against those ractionaries is rising up

Really? Where? Like a new liberal thing? I wanna see this

>>36903405

>tfw you think Gamergate shut down Gawker
>it actually wasn't related to GG at all, it was Hulk Hogan
>in the end GG accomplished nothing at all
>tfw

It was a fun time though.

>>36903338
>Youtube
I honestly get bring myself to go on youtube anymore. I hate all the political e celeb faggotry, and i cant escape it. No matter what im gonna be getting recommended videos from sargon, contrapoints, or whatever other person is jumping on the idpol patreon bux trend. Even other youtubers somehow get dragged into the culture war.

ugh. someone finally feels the same way as me.

my views are super radical and I don't ever want to talk about politics ever in my life

why can't /r9k/ be a depressive shithole instead of a retarded /pol/ vassal

I unironically blame the normalfags and their gradual infiltration via social networks (first myspace, then niggerbook) and endless phoneposting since the release of the iPhone in 2007

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>>36903534
At first, I found the whole right-wing YouTube explosion to be fascinating. It was the first right-wing movement since the 1960's, so it was crazy to see.

Now I am already sick of it.

>THE TRUTH ABOUT FEMINISM
>THE TRUTH ABOUT SLAVERY
>THE TRUTH ABOUT POST-MODERNISM
>THE TRUTH ABOUT THE WAGE GAP
>SJW FREAKOUT COMPILATION
>WHITE PRIVILAGE DEBUNKED
>WHY ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE

Fucking e-celebs are annoying as shit, and most of them are extremely creepy too.

>>36903328
>ideological rift forms
>this is bad

I keep hearing people say that "we are in a really bad place politically!"

I just don't see it. Yeah everybody hates each other and they are beating each other in the streets, but I'll take this over what we had before. I don't think anything super bad is going to happen.

>>36903395
You are part of the cancer.

>>36903886
you're part of the problem, originally.

>>36903443
just search up Hbomberguy and Contrapoints on youtube and all will be revealed

>>36903944
>it was better when people were limited to picking corrupt ass neo-liberalism or neo-conservativism
>y-y...you're part of the problem! ;(

no u

>>36903950

Are these people the """skeptic""" community. Those people are faggots desu, they're pretentious and arrogant as fuck but stupider than the people they're criticizing usually. Also they're not objective at all and only apply their skepticism to certain things while acting like they're intellectually superior.

>>36903828
damnt. spot on.

The only thing that really gets on my Nerves is neckbeards unironically using that same old matrix reference. The matrix is overrated and made every last moron think They are fighting in a badly written conspiracy movies against the jews

>>36903450
>fun
It went to shit fast. It was great when it was just gamers lowkey trying to fuck up shit devs and review sites but when reddit got involved it made taking games too seriously reach new levels of autism.

>>36904005
Can you get any more of a cliche cutout fedora than refering to yourself as a skeptic?

>>36903950
Looked the dudes up

>Contrapoints
Legitimate tranny? Fucking disgusting. 1/10

>Hbomberguy
This guy is alright, not very entertaining though.

Surprised more liberals haven't gotten on YouTube to attack right-wingers

>>36904213
Contrapoints just crossdresses. But if you think that would be a negative and requiring of dismissal then you're a retard.

>>36904303
>I'm a retard because I don't give mentally ill people a chance

To be fair, I hate Milo too.

>>36903828
You forgot the Buzzfeed rants

>>36904213
Most liberals are too stupid to properly stand against right-wingers. Not saying the right is any more "enlightened", it's just that the left is too emotionally fragile and don't know how to hold composure or properly express their ideas.

>>36904347
that still makes you pretty fuckin' dumb. Maybe you do belong here.

Yeah I've stopped thinking about and reading about politics all together, and life is so much more peaceful.
But occasionally I still see it scrolling through random places, but I just scroll right past.
I don't think it accomplished any good, and it's not like I'd be able to have an influence anyway, even if I was confident my views were correct (which I'm not at all).

>>36902883
>/r9k/ is all "le normans V robots" and buzzwords
>/aco/ is increasingly consumed by the artist feud (shad fans vs everyone)
>/tg/ is nofun vs fun and endless arguments over editions

I feel you OP

>>36903399
Their needs to be a revolution. We all just stop voting and stop paying taxes and stop clicking on sensational headlines so those sites tank. Just bring the whole political machine down.

>>36902883
Fuck off, your just adding to the conversation about politics.

>>36904352
I mean, yeah I hate buzzfeed too. But Buzzfeed and all of that other shit I listed is the low-hanging fruit at this point. We can keep pounding the topics into the ground, but it just seems ridiculous. Like it's the right-wing's version of virtue signaling now or something

>>36904384
>too emotionally fragile
>properly express their ideas

I think a lot of them simply don't know the facts about their ideas, have never taken 2 seconds to look at the other side's argument, and get really upset when their idea is addressed with conflicting information.

They just go on twitter and pick up the "general idea" of the kinds of stuff they see in their echo chambers. Of course many /pol/ users do this too, but they won't get in people's faces IRL about their views that they don't know a whole lot about.

>>36903685
it's not just /pol/ m8. I see a lot of reddit liberals and tumblrina people here too, who will unironically react to nearly apolitical stuff with things like "go back to /pol/". you can't even say /pol/ started it in the broader sense because /pol/ is just kind of a reaction to the internet era of leftists before it, which some would say is in turn a reaction to the irl culture before and so on and so on.

>>36904506
I'd say some of their ideas are pretty solid but are poor in execution. Cultural appropriation for example is a legitimate issue to me, but because lots of liberals don't know how to properly apply such a concept they end up blanketing it over everything. Same with "more than two genders" thing. If they had the skills to properly say what they mean with such statements without coming off as emotional faggots with an agenda or body dysmorphia they'd probably have a lot more traction by now.

partisan politics was a mistake
it really boggles the mind when people are against net neutrality because the SJWs are for it, this was a real thing on /pol/.

Honestly don't even get why they still do it. Unless you've done extensive reading on the subject, seriously, what's the point? You're not adding anything new to the debate, you're repeating stale old ideas from everyone before you - ideas that you likely only believe in because of your environment and the bubble you've immersed yourself in. I'm so sick of hearing "Europe is like a utopia, we should be like them!" from one side and "Europe is a Muslim-filled hellhole" from the other with no real thought given to it.

If you care about the subject, why not really learn about it? Do some analysis and consider a realistic solution? This is the thing that bothers me about normalfags the most (and yes, I include /pol/ in that group). There is absolutely nothing productive in this social-media-politics loop we've been in for the past few years. You don't gain anything, and that is painfully obvious.

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wow what an interesting and original opinion OP

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>>36904612
I definitely agree. The left or liberals or whatever need a major reform in how they express their ideas, then I think they'd be totally solid. Even more than two genders shit I could probably be fine with if it was expressed properly.

>>36902883
>why doesn't everyone just ignore our collapsing society and culture, like me
because there are things that you can ignore in our world, but politics is not one of them. A person who chooses to not include himself in political relations chooses to be ignorant about his world and country, which, is a very big sin to commit as a male.

I agree, I do not like the hordes of anti SJW police propping up on all forms of media who are simply following the trends, but their efforts are ultimately for the better and I would rather have them then actual libshit SJW's destroying my personal freedom for the sake of their feelings and nigger handouts.

You a bitch OP.

It's irritating, I am willing to listen to debate about certain subjects but everyone just wants to argue about white privilege and post modern bullshit. I just want THAT stuff to end, white privilege is obviously designed to silence white people and has no basis in reality. I'm just fucking upset that everyone wants to argue about pronouns and microagressions instead of more meaningful things. Really politics aren't so bad it's the identity politics part of it. Right now the left is pushing identity politics more than the right (except for /pol/ maybe) so that's why I hate them more.

According to
>>36904735
this obnoxious shit:
>>36903828
is for the better

>>36904612
>cultural appropriation

Not sure what I think about that because the only way I have had that argument presented to me is some black female millenial tweeting shit like "FUCKIN WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T THINK OF THEIR OWN IDEAS SO THEY COPY BLACK PEOPLE'S DANCE MOVES!!!!"

I am fine with left-wing opinions and thought, even if I don't agree with them. I just don't like that they cannot articulate their idea/argument, and then try to like bully you into conforming to their incoherent ideas.

Like I hate faggots, but I don't care if somebody else loves faggots. I just want to hate homosexuals from a distance and be left alone about it.

>>36904612
>Cultural appropriation for example is a legitimate issue to m
This shit right here is what pisses me off. There is nothing legitimate about cultural appropriation. So people aren't supposed to try out different cultures? Everyone should just stay in their own culture and never try new things and make their own version of it? This type of shit is making our society sterile and lifeless.

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>tfw too intelligent to invest my time in something that I have no control over

>>36904799
I mean, I would rather have a bunch of obnoxious YouTubers bashing leftism than no obnoxious YouTubers bashing leftism.

But there has to be some self-awareness. There has to be some manners and class. Even though I agree with Paul Joseph Watson, the dude is like yelling with his head 2 inches from the camera and talking about a lot of low-hanging fruit topics.

I would also like to see some left-winger YouTubers get in on the action and make some obnoxious videos. Like let's get some fucking dialogue going here. It's not fun when it's just a SJW circle jerk on Twitter and a right-wing circle jerk on YouTube.

Shit is just gay, and it's not going anywhere.

This.
Actually, odd as it seems, even /pol/ used to be fun and laid back. We had real discussion, sure, but it wasn't a place for some super-intense movement. If you could get past the taboo stuff (I myself was fascinated by it even though I never ended up buying in, for the most part anyway), then it was actually a really fun board.
The election brought in all kinds of outside cancer who didn't assimilate to the board culture. A few very ideologically different movements came in, but somehow they all saw Trump as their savior, tried to turn /pol/ into a movement for their cause, and started attacking any of the other groups with different opinions, having no tolerance for each other at all. /pol/ wasn't supposed to be a movement board, it was a laid back place to be edgy, discuss controversial things calmly, etc. It's ruined now.

>>36904765
the left was pushing identity politics more than the right, and probably still is, but the pendulum is swinging the other way. now the right is embracing that cancer.

>>36904930
it won't go anywhere even if there is dialogue though, people will still be comfortable in their bubble denouncing the other side as ignorant morons.

>>36904930
>the dude is like yelling with his head 2 inches from the camera and talking about a lot of low-hanging fruit topics
Well you can't expect people to be perfect.

> It's not fun when it's just a SJW circle jerk on Twitter
I know this might sound one sided but the thing is the SJWs on Twitter have designed their entire belief system around the idea that debate is not a good thing and is actually bad because it gives the right a "platform." I want to stay neutral but this shit is way to one sided, it is obvious that one side is in the wrong because they are the ones who won't debate. The right would generally love to debate but usually nobody on the left will take them up on that.

>>36905003
I think that is mostly /pol/. I could see what you are saying eventually becoming true though.

>>36904735
politics is largely tribally-fueled masturbation that does nothing to solve any of the real world issues. it functions as a distraction.

>>36904832
>>36904875
I also thought cultural appropriation was dumb when I was first introduced to it via yelling nigger woman, but thinking about it on my own I found that I understand and agree with it. It's not doing something other cultures do, it's taking someone's heritage and defiling it.

Imagine how Indians felt when their ceremonial feather head dresses for spiritual rituals were devolved into a fashion statement by dumb stacies, or how a Christian would feel when someone uses a cross as a dildo.

Or for us, imagine how it felt for normalfags to ruin pepe the frog and other secret club memes, just posting that shit everywhere and defiling something that brought you so much joy to the point where it sickens you to see it ever. Or how they banwagoned on 4chan with zero intent to learn board culture and instead shat up the sites with what they thought the site was based on funny images they saw, youtube 4chan thread simulator videos, and r/thedonald.

>>36904906
this. the only thing we can do is stop paying taxes. politics is just a distraction.

>>36905034
monkey see monkey do but too many monkey see so monkey cannot do
kys

>>36905103
Monkeys just cover everything in their shit and I would prefer if they did that in their own cage away from my things.

>>36905034
That doesn't change anything I said. What you are describing is that aching hipster feeling people get when something they liked that was obscure becomes popular. While you could say using a cross as a dildo is offensive someone else might find it funny and I could certainly see that being funny in a certain context. Even more than that someone might take something you loved and make something they think is beautiful out of it and you dislike but who are you to say they aren't allowed to do that? Just because it was your culture first someone can't make something more out of it that they like? What you are touching on is the importance of freedom of expression in art and not just in debate and politics.

>>36905034
If that's your reasoning then some anon appropriated pepe from it's creator, and other anons appropriated the reaction image from that anon. It's stupid and you can keep doing this indefinitely.

>>36905007
>it is obvious that one side is in the wrong because they are the ones who won't debate
kys retard
literally my only political stance is that "debate" is fucking stupid, rationality is shit, and you're all contemptible circlejerkers
old school nazi mysticism was bretty cool but the modern alt lite slobbers all over "western values", "proof", and "discussion". It's disgusitng and it's manipulative. The twitter leftists are the only people in mainstream discourse willing to admit that debate is useless and that political viewpoint (including their own) are not based on logic, and I respect them immensely for that.

>>36904950
>It's ruined now.
Niggers like you are popping up everywhere, always crying about the lack of discussion on /pol/. Remember that you cannot be banned for being a nigger loving communist gapping his asshole every walking moment of the day and speaking your mind. You also forget that there are tons of people of your kind who wishes there were a discussion but for some reason you act like you are the only one seeing this "problem".
If you want discussion, the effort must come from you also, not others alone, faggot.
inb4
>b-but i didn't say nothing about discussion
Hey, /pol/ did not change much aside from discussion going away, if that is not what you are complaining about, lurk moar or go back to the shit hole you came from.

>>36905235
Well you are an utter retard. Without debate all we have left is violence and violence is so chaotic and uncertain the end result could be more devastating than anything in your life or even in all of human history.

>>36905024
I mean isn't a certain percentage of the Trump thing identity politics, really? No, I didn't think it was the white supremacy thing some people on the left (and Richard Spencer types on the right) said it was, but it was whites who felt like they were getting an unfair rap from the left and voted for Trump mainly as a fuck you to them. This wasn't just /pol/acks, it was a lot of normal americans. I can sympathize with where they were coming from, but it was still identity politics (and yes i know there were other reasons people voted for Trump, but I said a certain percentage).

>>36905003
old school politics was largely identity politics plus pretense. now that pretense is gone; there's no going back. i expect a lot of violence in the next twenty years

>>36905276
Do you consider telling people who are blaming you for all their problems because of your skin color to fuck off identity politics? Because to me it seems like the opposite.

>>36905309
if that isn't identity politics, what is?

>>36905143
yeah, other people "defiling" pepe shouldn't change how we see him, or discourage us from using him. It's easy enough to just ignore what they're doing.
as far as people shitting up boards, I can kind of see his point, because I do agree that that happens, but if their defilement is going on OUTSIDE 4chan who gives a shit? Ditto with minorities. if whites are tweaking their stuff in the suburbs, why should minorities care? and frankly, I don't think most of them do. It's mostly a bored internet girl movement.

>>36905143
I don't care about popularity, I care about people taking something they haven't bothered to really understand and devaluing it's significance for selfish reasons.

>>36905178
It's not the same. Pepe initially as just a character had no real significance until a community built something around him. To take what a community has carefully crafted and have it be stolen with no respect for its origin is deplorable in its own right.

>>36905262
>muh bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh
Give me one goddamn reason to believe debate has any power to stop the outcome you're depicting. Or better yet, don't waste your time, because it's not going to convince me that you're doing anything but wishful thinking. Now consider that we're two robots, two members of the same cultural group, and yet we're unable to reconcile our viewpoints. What the fuck makes you think liberals and conservatives in this country can possibly make peace with each other?

>>36905364
How is it identity politics at all? Other people are judging you because of your identity (that you can't even choose) so you tell them to fuck themselves. That is telling people who care about race/gender/ethnicity that they are massive faggots and you don't respect them.

>>36902883
People like internet politics because it allows them to easily establish in/out groups and fulfil the innate tribe (us vs them) mentality that's common to all humans. It's the perfect breeding ground for echo chambers and allows anyone to have a soap box so they can feel like they're being heard and affirmed.

Discussing internet politics allows "commoners" to make believe their tiny voice can change the course of government and have some profound influence on the world. While the grand scheme of things, there's so much noise and so many more people and entities that have influence over the decision makers that they're barely being heard.

>>36905392
>Other people are judging you because of your identity (that you can't even choose) so you tell them to fuck themselves
that is, literally, what identity politics is

go ask black lives matter what their deal with white people is and they'll spit back the exact same sentence

>>36905380
>Pepe initially as just a character had no real significance
It has significance to the comic, it's creator and the readers, a small group of people and then a larger group of anons bastardised it for their own ends. That's cultural appropriation. And now you cry because even a larger group of normies have taken it. If you cannot see the irony then I don't know what to say.

>>36905258
the quality of discussion on /pol/ has gotten a lot worse, it was better a few years ago. I was fascinated by the racist stuff and loved discussing it. And I know there are others who want higher quality discussion, not just me. And I've tried to start threads to promote this level of discussion, and it goes nowhere, so I've given up.
I've been on /pol/ since November 2011.

>>36905380
>I care about people taking something they haven't bothered to really understand and devaluing it's significance for selfish reasons.
Why? How do you know it was selfish? You are assuming many things.

>>36905384
If people can voice their opinions and if doing so can effect the government then they will not be driven to violence because it is easier to voice an opinion and change the world than to get violent. If they can't voice their opinion and their problems are a big enough deal to them they will get violent. People will probably still get violent even with free speech but it will be mitigated by it.

>>36905443
B-but they aren't in the right, I am.

>>36905465
people who protest cultural appropriation are ultimately just asking for their culture to not be appropriated, because they dislike it (nobody likes it. 4chan certainly doesn't like it)

stop taking what's obviously just rhetoric at face value

>>36905309
You don't have to engage those types though. By voting for those reasons, you're acknowledging those people, instead of just ignoring them.

>>36905443
No it isn't you moron. Nobody is blaming black people for blaming white people they are blaming the ideology that blames white people aka progressive libtards. BLM just blames white people for all their problems regardless of ideology THAT is identity politics.

>>36905515
Ignoring them does not make them go away. That is something you learn in elementary school about bullies.

>>36905465
If I recall correctly the creator of Pepe was fine with it up until he became an alt-right symbol. There's a difference between little steps of evolving culture and flat out taking something completely out of its line of origin for no reason.

>>36905491
When is stealing anything not selfish?

>>36905540
they don't have to go away. most people just need to focus on the real issues. and the biggest issue we should all focus on is not bloating up this political machine even more. the way to do that is to stop paying taxes.
i will say though, acknowledging them has only riled them up even more, so I don't agree with your logic here.

>>36905569
>When is stealing anything not selfish?
You can't own an idea. Culture isn't something you can claim as your own. Most things you enjoy were inspired by other cultures/ideas and weren't even 100% original.

>>36905582
Except that those people are trying to push for legislation that will effect you. It's not like these people just whine online and do nothing else.

>>36905503
I know that, it's just that taking it to it's logical conclusion leads to a rabbit hole modern society will not survive. eg. not using the decimal system or zero because another culture invented it, christianity appropriating judaic concepts, same with islam and christianity etc.
Culture and ideas are always appropriated and these retards cannot see that.

>>36905569
actually his initial response to the alt-right thing was something like "that's just ones of literally thousands of subcultures who have adapted pepe". he was all over the web for all kinds of political and apolitical groups.
then Hillary saw the advantage in making it a white supremacy symbol because I think a couple guys on the trump team had retweeted pepe. but before that no one legitimately thought the alt-right had a claim to it (even the alt-right). I wouldn't say the alt-right is any more a bastardization of pepe than the million other variations on him, political or otherwise.

>>36905521
that's still identity politics

here is a handy template: "[other groups] are attacking [our identity]. stop attacking [our identity]"

>[white people] are attacking [black people]. stop attacking [black people]
>[progressive liberals] are attacking [men]. stop attacking [men]
>[progressive liberals] are attacking [white people]. stop attacking [white people]

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>>36905503
You know, shouldn't cultural appropriation be something /pol/ cares about? All they spout is that they want to preserve culture, keep cultures separate, cultural marxism, end degenuwuhcym, blah blah blah. Shouldn't they go after people who make cultural symbols meaningless?

>>36905616
ok great, there's a push for legislation that will affect you. how the fuck is "getting mad online" an appropriate response? It's like knowing that deer are going to come and eat the plants in your garden, so you rip up all the plants and put in new ones that look worse but are less palatable to deer, and then the deer come and eat those plants anyway. You're not changing anything for the better. You're just making the communities you're in go to shit, while being too blind to notice after circlejerking so hard with the other idiots who bought into your blind panic

>>36905589
>You can't own an idea
Then explain copyright.

>>36905616
you can't change the machine, and thinking you can serves as a distraction from doing the one thing that can kill it (not change, kill): stop paying taxes.

>>36905652
Taking something with intent of constructive use of it isn't cultural appropriation, that's progress.

>>36905695
Well that's just ridiculous then. Identity is so ingrained in everything and even things unrelated to race and gender are identity based. Being a scientist is an identity. I guess identity politics aren't so bad if we define them like you define them. (I think most people define it as politics based around race/gender/ethnicity exclusively).

>>36905699
why should we care what /pol/ thinks, exactly?

>>36905699
"cultural appropriation" is currently a project of the left. /pol/ will adopt it as soon as it's convenient

>>36905703
Who said I was getting mad online? I rarely make threads so I can't see how I am responsible for pushing any of these topics, I merely reply.

>>36905704
I don't really like copyright entirely actually.

>>36905706
>stop paying taxes.
Wow, great advice. Not like I am forced to pay taxes or anything right?

I love it. I can't wait until we just have a civil war. I want to vent my beta rage.

>>36905007
People on the "left" generally don't want to debate because it's just pure spectacle. Debates a pretty shit form of political discussion, 99% it's just both people spouting unsourced claims.

>>36905732
Using an indian headress and feather for halloween is constructive use.

>>36905699
Yes, /pol/ has some people who are the ideological reversal of SJWs but not every conservative is /pol/. Not everyone on /pol/ is the same either.

>>36905770
I'm not really a fan of copyright either, but I feel it's necessary because there are a lot of shady fucks out there ready to steal patents and inflate markets with garbage products that can shit on an invention's public appearance simply to make a quick buck if they could.

>>36905734
>Being a scientist is an identity. I guess identity politics aren't so bad if we define them like you define them
it's still bad you fucking doofus because whenever a position is taken because of identity politics there's no fucking thought behind it
people might shit out arguments to justify their positions but it's all post hoc, it's all rhetorical manipulation, the actual position itself comes from a selfish and shortsighted spirit of "I shouldn't have to cede more ground" instead of any broad-minded consideration of right and wrong

>>36905770
whether or not you're personally responsible for pushing these topics, "politics affects us so we have to respond" is the ideology used by those that do, and it lends them legitimacy

>>36905821
Okay then discuss? They don't want to do anything involved talking about ideas with their opponents.

>>36905734
>Identity is so ingrained in everything and even things unrelated to race and gender are identity based.
yup. it's not something you opt-in to or get to run away from, it's something that's inflicted on you. that's part of why identity politics are such a shitshow

>I guess identity politics aren't so bad if we define them like you define them.
spoken like a true trump supporter (^:

this next decade is gonna be shit

>(I think most people define it as politics based around race/gender/ethnicity exclusively).
those are the big ones but i'd add religion, as that's not mutable in the same way other ideologies are

>>36905824
As long as it's not being used in a disrespectful manner it's fine.

>No matter where you go, you can't escape
And you won't for the entire remainder of your life. It's a consequence of free speech and democratic systems.
Learn to ignore it.

>>36905699
>/pol/ is one person
there are actually race"realist" /pol/acks who don't want white kids to listen to rap, for example, and would completely agree with you. I know this because I've had this exact discussion with them. then there are the libertarian individualist types who don't condone thinking in group terms, and there are the reactionaries who just shit on leftist ideologies. these latter two types shit on cultural appropriation. but they're not the ones spouting white preservation.
at the same time, are preservation and appropriation incompatible? you can preserve a certain number of something while still allow for a certain amount of experimentation and mixture at the side.

>>36905834
>"politics affects us so we have to respond" is the ideology used by those that do, and it lends them legitimacy
you can bury your head in the sand or be willing to concede ground, but this is ultimately inescapable and correct

>>36905867
Fashion is constructive use too, you can't fault a stacey wearing a kimono or a chad wearing a feather. Are you even the guy who said this
>Imagine how Indians felt when their ceremonial feather head dresses for spiritual rituals were devolved into a fashion statement by dumb stacies

>>36905770
>>36905770
>not like I am forced to pay taxes
well if everyone did it, what could they do? they could kill us all, I suppose, but I don't think that would be in their best interest. it just takes a few brave souls to lead the way, as in any revolution

>>36905834
>it's still bad you fucking doofus because whenever a position is taken because of identity politics there's no fucking thought behind it
Even if you are merely telling someone to judge you based on the content of your character and not the color of your skin? I think you are being dishonest.

>politics affects us so we have to respond
Why is this not a good reason? Prove that responding will only lead to a worse outcome in my life.

>>36905863
See my above reply. I think you are being dishonest.

>>36905817
this. I have no loyalty to either side
>inb4 stale centrist memes
but the idea of a civil war fascinates me. I really think it could happen.

>>36905915
Once in a while for special events is a lot different than going out on the street to catch attention.

>>36905921
>well if everyone did it
Yes, if everyone respected eachother's wishes and were nice to eachother we would all be in a Utopia.

>>36905863
>spoken like a true trump supporter
m8 that's everyone I know. they have a problem with identity politics (even if they don't think of them in that term) but then when someone points out how they engage in similar behavior, they say their version is fine.

>>36905699
A lot of people I see who claim to want to preserve culture don't even want to preserve culture. They are just europhiles want to go back to some nonexistent prelapsarian version of society

>>36905955
But say if they only wore it once a year, but not on halloween, they're alright by your book right?

>>36905960
this is something that could actually happen though

>>36905922
>Even if you are merely telling someone to judge you based on the content of your character and not the color of your skin?
yes, you fucking idiot
give me ONE GODDAMN REASON why being judged by the color of your skin is wrong besides "it makes me feel bad" or "I learned in school that americans shouldn't do that"
jesus fucking christ I hate centrists

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>even this thread has degraded into shitty political noise

>>36906019
Depends on context. It's not a black and white issue. That's why we need a discussion to come to an agreement on when doing or wearing something is or isn't okay.

>>36906023
No it isn't anything involving saying "If everyone did X" will never happen.

>>36906034
Because I am an individual how can you know anything about me just by looking at my skin? Or my face? Unless I am making a face like a angry face.

>>36906034
logically it's wrong, but at the same time identity instinct is a human reality that we can't escape. we have the intelligence to see the inanity of certain aspects of it but not the emotional will to overcome that primitive instinct.
Race is the biggest one, and it would probably be best for all of us if we just peaceably separated.

>>36906047
honestly i only came into this thread because i knew it would

>>36906066
kill yourself you retard

>>36906047
>implying the OP wasn't that

>>36906089
Exactly. Just like there's an appropriate time and place to tell someone to kill themselves, there's an appropriate time and place to wear arguably ceremonial clothing.

>>36905913
alright faggot
keep thinking your shitposting matters
keep watching your hobbies get worse and worse every year despite your best efforts
there's no fucking participation trophy for trying to push back against normie political movements and then circlejerking about how you're doing the right thing and it's working

>>36906120
>keep watching your hobbies get worse and worse every year despite your best efforts
Not him but I am trying to become a game dev. It is probably a waste of time but at least I am trying something else besides talking about it. What have you done that makes you feel so high and mighty?

>>36906110
there is nothing i can say that will convince you of something other than your views, same with me, this is why discussion is pointless.

>>36906077
well then, if ENOUGH people stopped paying taxes it would spur a revolutions. revolutions have happened before, even when some people resisted. a lot of people wanted to vote third party this year but they were all like "well not enough people are gonna do that so I'll just pick the lesser of two evils" and millions of others thought the same way. if all those people didn't worry about what others would do and followed their conscience then it's possible a third party candidate could have won. but a lot of people did this year, and it may have been the tipping point to show the people that didn;t that there are possible enough like minded people out there so it's not a wasted vote. next year will be big for third parties.
so too with the tax thing. some people will have to take the first step but it can happen.

I do hope conservatives realize they're just as cringes and annoying as the liberals

>>36902883
It is all about being superior to the other normie. No one really cares a god damn thing about politics. Normies just copy and paste what they read online. Just like what is happening with science. Have good problem solving skills? Too bad, you gotta memorize facts and drop knowledge bombs on the other normies.

>>36906160
>there is nothing i can say that will convince you of something other than your views
Not him but this is false. I constantly have my views changed.

>>36905922
>Even if you are merely telling someone to judge you based on the content of your character and not the color of your skin?
a loud collective response like this is a euphemism for "your problems and grievances aren't real, so I'm going to tell you to fuck off"

so yes

>>36905978
of course. i only mentioned trump because of his supporters' relative embrace of identity politics

>>36903450
GG dragged Kotaku's and by extension Gawker's name through the mud long enough for people to actually want them to suffer the full wrath of Hulkmania.

Feminists made the mistake of barging into the space of complete social outcasts and trying to shame them into compliance like everybody else. It turns out that people really don't like it when you fuck with their hobbies, especially when they have nothing else.

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>>36906160
But I am willing to learn anon. Even if you get nothing out of this, I sure have. I've learned about some hypocritical points of view I had from other anons in this discussion and will let them resonate in my mind as I try to work out what "feels" right and what is right.

>>36906197
>your problems and grievances aren't real
Maybe they aren't. Or maybe they aren't a big deal.

>>36906175
yeah well they've certainly become as such. 10 years ago I don't think the average conservative WAS as annoying as the average liberal (pundits aside) but now I do, and actually suspect they'll surpass the liberals soon.

>>36906197
>>36906077
the morality of it is totally irrelevant, because people do anyway

I'm blowing this out my ass but i feel like this """ culture war""" going on between the left and the right is just going to make people more apathetic towards politics.

>>36906220
>other anons
other than the first replies to your cultural appropriation post, it's all me.

>>36906154
>What have you done that makes you feel so high and mighty?
Grown the fuck up, admitted that not every medium of human endeavor is going to be fruitful in every era - historically some of them go to shit for quite some time - and encouraged everyone I know from 4chan to do the same. The only way to keep flourishing unless you have a timeless hobby like hiking is to diversify your interests.

>>36906251
I agree. There are the demagogues who make a lot of noise, but now I think most people are just turned off by the whole thing.
The logical step for them is to now stop paying taxes and inflating the political machine. We'll see if that happens.

>>36906228
>Maybe they aren't. Or maybe they aren't a big deal.
the truth value of their claims is completely irrelevant, and doesn't make defending attacks on identity (especially if you do it collectively, as an identity group) not identity politics

>>36906272
So you have accomplished nothing then? Diversifying interests is a mostly meaningless thing to say, you don't even know that I don't have a diverse amount of interests.

>>36906268
Then thank you for the contrasting point of view. It's important for us to "try out" ideas against others to truly see how they hold up. Like a fresh pair of jeans, ideas have to be walked around in for a bit before they really start to settle and snug in. If it ends up not feeling right, I'll take them back to the store and get a different pair.

>>36906295
What should they have done? Voted for Hillary because she was such a model candidate right? Or vote for the cuck Bernie Sanders who wasn't even in the election anymore? Or maybe Gary Johnson? Or Jill Stein? Get real.

>>36906291
>The logical step for them is to now stop paying taxes
Would you shut the fuck about that? No one wants to be made an example of in some government standoff. It's not gonna happen, and if it did, the government has a way of bringing the public to its side, or enough of them anyway to distract most of the ones it is not able to. they weave thinly supported notions of white supremacy, or religious fanaticism, or how he'd have been shot by now if he was black, so I want the government to shoot this white man.

>>36906300
This isn't just about you, you fucking knucklehead, this is about the other people who ceaselessly push the idea that we have to get back at the essjay dubyuze, many of which I KNOW FOR A FACT do not have diverse interests
this is what ALWAYS FUCKING HAPPENS with discussions, the people willing to discuss are by definition the most emotionally healthy well-adjusted and high quality individuals of their side, and because they're partisan they only look at their own good behavior instead of the howling hordes of idiots behind them who are taking shelter in these ideological positions

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>>36902883
Blame underage /pol/fags that show up to every popular forum and ruin them and can't hold an argument without using the words cuck or nigger
Blame anyone that "voted for Trump just to make people mad"
Blame anyone that thought it would be a good idea to let a con-artist be our president
Blame anyone that thought it would be a good idea to repeal obama-care, then get mad when medicare is getting shut down
Blame anyone that said they wanted to vote in the first place when both outcomes were clearly bad

>>36906330
not him, but you're missing the point of this argument. it's not about who you voted for, it's why.

>>36906372
* most of the ones it was not able to

>>36906382
you're part of the cancer, anon. you're part of the cancer.

>>36906378
Well sure there are idiots but how does that make the movement not legit? Most people aren't all that bright.

>>36906392
My point is that all of your options were so shit that even if you voted for Trump because you thought it would be funny that was a good enough reason. Regardless, why does it matter that there are idiots on the right? How does it make the "smart" people on the right any less legit?

>>36906439
I'm part of the cancer because I'm admitting what went wrong, or is it because I refused to vote for either candidate?

>>36905235
>>36905235
>>36905235

Concepts of rationality, reason and proof, are the source of all the technology, infrastructure, public services and general comfort you are enjoying right now.
Evidence-based discussion in science has been generally useful to humankind.

Also, I like how you criticise "proof' and discussion for being manipulative and yet support the disgusting emotional manipulation on twitter by rejecting logic.
That's very, but unsurprisingly, hypocritical of you.
You don't understand that reason and logic-based discussion is less conducive to manipulation than a lack thereof.

You sound like a frustrated, immature individual who can't mentally handle and process dense streams of information and is overwhelmed by multitudes of viewpoints and complex discourse, and so you reject everything to do with reason and reference "old school nazi mysticism" in order to disguise your intellectual laziness and ineptitude.

>>36906382
>Blame underage /pol/fags that show up to every popular forum and ruin them and can't hold an argument without using the words cuck or nigger
sure, but let's blame the people who used cancerous, self righteous liberal rhetoric that spurred this cancerous reactionary movement in the first place.
let's also blame the liberals who haven't stopped using this rhetoric,
let's also blame the tumblrinas who come to this board and say even the calm rational stuff is /pol/ because they don't like it
>Blame anyone that "voted for Trump just to make people mad"
some people voted for more reasons than that. also, let's not pretend most people who voted for Obama did so for any other reason than to stick it to those "racist old white dinosaurs".
>con artist
so every politician
>repeal obamacare
good idea, though the replacement was shit. a legitimate free market plan would be good.

>>36906516
you're pushing your own political jabs in a thread that's supposed to be apolitical. that's what I'm saying. and no it isn't just you, this thread turned into a political shit show quickly.

>>36904213
The kind of liberals that would be flustered enough by right-wing YouTubers to start a channel for the sole purpose of attacking them don't have skin even a quarter thick enough to handle the pure toxicity that politics on the Internet brings.

That and they already have late-night TV.

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>>36904706
Haha yeah you tellem

>>36906330
that's irrelevant, really.

you still have a mental model of identity politics as something that is done by "bad" people, on the offense, looking to cause trouble. you are looking at this entirely the wrong way - most of the time it is a reaction to something else.

reasons people deride identity politics:
1 - they hate being the target of it (everyone does)
2 - they were lied to about what it was for rhetorical reasons (identity politics is something X group does, and I hate when X group gets political)
3 - nasty identity politics often leads to violence in real life

>>36906633
You also missed the point. Which was the first question. What should they have done? If someone is bullying you for being a member of a group what do you do? Ignore it? That doesn't work.

>>36906538
But what about the all the low class Americans that fell for Trump's "Make america great again" meme?

So right OP. None of this matters.

>>36906658
>What should they have done?
that's totally irrelevant. i made absolutely no claim on what they should or shouldn't have done. all i did was identify it as identity politics.

>If someone is bullying you for being a member of a group what do you do? Ignore it? That doesn't work.
no shit it doesn't work. why do you think identity-based movements exist?

>>36906524
>Concepts of rationality, reason and proof, are the source of all the technology, infrastructure, public services and general comfort you are enjoying right now.
That's a fucking myth and I'm sick of having to take this bullshit from someone who is almost certainly less intelligent than I am. Read a fucking book once in your life.
The cutting edge of science and theory is advanced primarily through imagination, unconscious insight, and the use of mental architecture that cannot be adequately explained in words or arguments. The development of theory into usable technology / widespread products relies on a sort of pragmatic or operational rationality - the ability to predict the results of actions - that has little correlation with the general rationality much touted by fans of debate and free discourse.
Rationality and the development of civilization have never been demonstrated to have a causal relationship. Idiot philosophers merely juxtaposed the concepts and invited readers to imagne that they were related because rationality is quite a pretty idea which makes sense from a distance. But that's all it is, a pretty idea. I have never met a single person who believes in it for evidence-based reasons, their arguments always boil down to the platitudes they were fed as little children.

I'll repeat this very bluntly: you sound unintelligent. You talk a big game about "dense streams of information" but your sentences are padded with Latinate words to make yourself seem more impressive. Did it ever occur to you that I've considered the the fucking elementary school idea that "reason and logic-based discussion is less conducive to manipulation than a lack thereof" and rejected it as misleadng? Of course not; you can't imagine anyone would be more intelligent than you are, so you think the only reason other people aren't in slack-jawed rapture in front of the ideas you hold dear is that they simply haven't been exposed to them. Give me a fucking break.

>>36906748
Well I don't see what the point of this discussion is anymore then. If you are just going to say they were wrong for voting Trump for the wrong reasons and then offer nothing of value as a suggestion for what they should have done then this is pointless.

>>36906732
They didn't fall for it, the idea that the rural working class are rubes is a liberal lie. They weren't offered anything from Hillary. When you have to choose between nothing and empty promises the empty promises are the appealing option.

>>36906538
>let's also blame the tumblrinas who come to this board and say even the calm rational stuff is /pol/ because they don't like it
Maybe if you'd stop accusing people of being tumblr we'd stop accusing people of being /pol/. We didn't "come to this board" from tumblr ffs, how new are you? Do you just not remember for how many years and on how many boards people have been complaining about /pol/ spilling? Or did you never notice in the first place because you're oblivious to anyone who doesn't tongue your balls like the other /pol/turds do?

>>36906769
>science and theory is advanced primarily through imagination, unconscious insight, and the use of mental architecture that cannot be adequately explained in words or arguments
Holy shit how can you say this and act so smug like you are more intelligent than him. You're arguing that science and technology does not use reason or proof or rationality which is so fucking wrong I don't know where to begin. You realize that the only reason you can log into your bank account and know it is secure is because of rigorous proofs right?

>>36906795
>and then offer nothing of value as a suggestion for what they should have done
They should have been better human beings. Politics does not begin when polls open and end when they close; politicians make promises based on what they think people care about enough to vote for. Polticians keep promises based on what they think will cost more in terms of public outrage than they can gain from selling out their position - again, based on what people care about. A group that votes the "right" way for the wrong reasons ensures that the platform they voted for is more petty and less substantial than it could otherwise have been with a more principled voterbase. A group that voted the "right" way for the wrong reasons will not exert political pressure on politicians to hold to the positions that made them the right choice. These are serious downsides that can be avoided by people not jumping into the identity politics cesspool, which is apparently too much to ask

>>36906945
And you have zero proof that most Trump voters did it because they were white and not for better reasons. I personally did it for better reasons.

>>36906795
unless i'm severely misreading the thread the discussion was "what is/counts as identity politics", and i only mentioned trump once as a jab (given the right's new embrace of identity politics vs something they used to pretend was left wing only)

(i didn't post >>36905834, they are sort of off the mark, but identity politics can obviously manifest itself in stupid ways)

>>36906844
>You realize that the only reason you can log into your bank account and know it is secure is because of rigorous proofs right?
Again, that is a matter of operational and applied rationality, which is a mentally compartmentalized skill unrelated to the broader topic of whether or not a person is rational. Do you actually know any fucking computer scientists or mathematicians? Do you know the sorts of people that write proofs? I do and I can fucking assure you they do not fedora tip nearly as hard as arrogant assholes on the internet do.

>>36906979
So you are saying he is wrong because it's not the right kind of rationality? Really? That is such a petty argument. I am a CS major.

>>36906966
good for you anon, do you want a cookie? A little gold achievement star after you voted for better reasons? Anyone can go to /pol/ or r/the_donald right now and see what kinds of people voted for Trump and the shitty reasons they had for doing so. And that would just be anecdotal data. It wouldn't necessarily represent the trump voterbase as a whole. But I'm going to take a wild guess that it's more representative than one trump-voting robot in a thread about the overpoliticization of the internet.

>>36907049
And your smug attitude is a great representation of the apolitical snob.

>>36906769

>The cutting edge of science and theory is advanced primarily through imagination, unconscious insight, and the use of mental architecture that cannot be adequately explained in words or arguments.

No, it's advanced through a combination of both. Insights form the seed of an idea, but reason serves to formulate and organise those insights into a coherent and consistent system, whereby they can be meaningfully shared with others and built upon using a common conceptual framework.
The problem is unconscious insights don't need to be taught to people, whereas reason and logic do.
There's also another way of looking at this: to consider "unconscious insight" a subset of inductive reasoning. There is no reason to attribute any mystical qualities to imagination and intuition: it is just a form of pattern recognition (induction).
Edward de Bono (creator of the concept of lateral thinking) has a few lectures on the nature of "unconscious insight" and "creativity", where he explains that "creativity" and "imagination" is a teachable skill which can be learned and passed on based on rational/scientific understanding of neuroscience.

So creativity and intuitive insight can also be explained, harnessed and optimised through the rational, organising principle, and the former certainly does not hold priority over the other.

> relies on a sort of pragmatic or operational rationality - the ability to predict the results of actions - that has little correlation with the general rationality much touted by fans of debate and free discourse.

What is the difference between "general" rationality and "pragmatic" rationality? Sounds like you just made that up on the spot, especially because you didn't make that distinction in earlier posts.

>>36907084
>What is the difference between "general" rationality and "pragmatic" rationality? Sounds like you just made that up on the spot, especially because you didn't make that distinction in earlier posts.
i assume they mean the distinction between being able to use logic in a domain (science, etc) vs being a "rational", enlightened human being (a myth that was killed a while ago)

>>36907184
>"rational", enlightened human being
Nobody ever mentioned this so he actually used a straw man argument.

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>>36902883
I know this feel all too well. I liked Trump and made up my mind about voting for him months before the election, but was basically resolved about being completely silent on Facebook and everything about it. I realized there would be a few retards posting about it, but I figured I, and most people, would just ignore them as we always did.

However, as the race went on, the more and more vitriolic the things I saw on Facebook posted got. They started personally attacking the intellect and character of not only people who supported Trump, but even people who wanted to vote 3rd party. If you like or dislike, or even psychotically hate Trump with a passion, I don't give a shit, but as soon as you start attacking me, I'm going to stand up for myself.

I kept my mouth shut for probably about 4/5 of the election cycle and then slowly started becoming edgier and douchier until I finally made a status mocking liberals on the day of Trump's inauguration. Initially, I felt satisfied that they all finally shut the fuck up, but I then made the horrific realization that I, too had become a right-wing version of the very same liberal faggots that I hated. Before the election, I used to just post funny, clever statuses and share dumb memes I liked, but then I had become this angry, hate-filled neckbeard in an attempt to out-neckbeard the other neckbeards. After this realization, I unfollowed all the e-celeb famewhores and depoliticized my life entirely.

It's just one giant negative feedback loop. One side does one thing, the other side spergs the fuck out about it like a bunch of histrionic retards for a week and then the other side spergs out about the response to their spergout. Both extremes are retarded and need to shut the fuck up.

It frustrates me because it feels like there isn't a single place anywhere on the internet where you can have an honest discussion about politics that isn't a fucking echo chamber. That's what tires me out about it, either you're in the left side of the venn diagram or the right side, there's no middle. It feels sometimes like the two sides literally can't even communicate anymore, the rules of engagement are so deeply entrenched that you basically start from a position of "I'm covering my ears and screaming buzzwords" from square 1.

>>36907230
>where you can have an honest discussion about politics that isn't a fucking echo chamber
I mean...aren't we doing that right now?

>>36907006
>>36907006
>I am a CS major.
Oh, that's good, it means I can actually fucking explain things instead of throwing pearls to swine.

What I'm saying is that technological advancement has come from people's abilities to apply the rules of logic and also from people's abilities to process facts known about nature into forms that can be used as part of logical reasoning. This is significantly NOT the same as what is meant by being rational in a debate, which primarily revolves around being able to process verbal propositions - political and philosophical statements - into forms that can be used as part of logical reasoning. That is a distinct skill; many people have one and not the other; I would be absolutely boggled if you didn't know good coders who are politically retarded. And while it is in some way admirable, it does NOT have the same proven history of contributing to human civilization as rationality in an engineering context. In fact it has a very poor history of accomplishing anything in the face of human nature.

A scientist who is capable of applying rationality to theory moves society forward. An entrepreneur who is capable of applying rationality to business moves society, or at least his sector of it, forward. Statesmen who are capable of applying rationality to government move the country forward. Political theorists who are capable of applying rationality to politics do very little besides convince people of their own legitimacy.

>>36906769

>Idiot philosophers

don't forget to add "who were certainly less intelligent than I" !

>merely juxtaposed the concepts and invited readers to imagne that they were related because rationality is quite a pretty idea which makes sense from a distance.

And why do you think they correlated them so?
Unconscious insight, perhaps? Isn't this "unconscious insight" which you tout so much basically just the equivalent of "makes sense from a distance", until probed and refined by reason?
Boy, that would be a blow to your position.

>Rationality and the development of civilization have never been demonstrated to have a causal relationship.

Well, if you want to go that far why not just full on say that causality itself is an unproven metaphysical concept which has never been proven to exist?
What would be sufficient proof to you of a causal relationship, considering you recently rejected "proof" as valid epistemology?

>I have never met a single person who believes in it for evidence-based reasons, their arguments always boil down to the platitudes they were fed as little children.

There is nothing even close to an argument here.
Those are just appeals to personal experience and ad-hominem generalisations. I admit I did this too in my last post, though. I probably shouldn't have made that ad-hominem comment about your intellect.

>'ll repeat this very bluntly: you sound unintelligent

You came across as such yourself. So I guess we're even.

> but your sentences are padded with Latinate words to make yourself seem more impressive.

Yes, I know the term "Latinate" too. No, it's not to make myself seem impressive, it's to keep my vocabulary active for my own personal development. Sorry my Latinate words were so offensive to you.

> Did it ever occur to you that I've considered..

Yes, but obviously not for long enough.

>>36906769

>Of course not; you can't imagine anyone would be more intelligent than you are

Says the guy who said
>who is almost certainly less intelligent than I am.

The projection is real.

>>36907006
>>36907290
different person, it's almost a non-comparison because debates aren't rational to begin with, by design. they're rhetoric used to serve the interests of the debaters (which in politics, is power for specific groups)

>>36907290
It's actually not very different. If you have ever taken a Philosophy class they start by teaching you basic logic which isn't much different to the kind you use in Computer Science. I don't see why being rational in a debate is any different from being rational in any situation. The real problem with politics and rationality is that humans aren't 100% rational but that wasn't the original argument the original argument was that rational debate is a good thing.

>>36907084
>Edward de Bono (creator of the concept of lateral thinking) has a few lectures on the nature of "unconscious insight" and "creativity", where he explains that "creativity" and "imagination" is a teachable skill which can be learned
Yes, you're absolutely right, creativity/imagination is a teachable skill. That's exactly why I'm splitting hairs so much on this point, because practicing this subset of inductive reasoning is EXTREMELY important, requires a great deal of time invested, and is a practice that I very often see being crowded out by the practice of excessive formalism. Insight can be harnessed through the organizing principle, but the practice and use of insight is not the same as the practice and use of the organizing principle itself. The latter has far too many practitioners chasing after very few/rare opportunities to advance the field. Many of them aren't even chasing after anything, they're just a cargo cult.

>>36907203
>Nobody ever mentioned this
Regardless of whether anyone explicitly brings it up or personally holds the opinion, that is the position associated with the idea that debate is, in itself, inherently something to be valued. Knowledge does not come from a collection of facts, it comes from a collection of thinkers, and the presence of any such community on /r9k/ is, uh, dubious to put it mildly

>>36907449
>that is the position associated with the idea that debate is, in itself, inherently something to be valued
No it isn't. I already told you why debate is something to be valued using a rational argument. Of course if you didn't value debate you wouldn't argue with me so I think you don't even believe debate has no value because here you are.

>>36907470
valuing debate enough to keep responding to you isn't a very high bar in terms of how much fucking value I assign to debate
I'm willing to sit around edging and being depressed on /r9k/, does that mean I value those activities? Does that mean anyone should?
In the end these posts will accomplish absolutely fucking nothing. The same way all rational debate, in any context, accomplishes absolutely fucking nothing.

>>36907568
>The same way all rational debate, in any context, accomplishes absolutely fucking nothing.
It's changed my opinion on things which is an accomplishment to me. But now I am going to say something irrational, I think rational debate is powerful because I think it can make people look at situations without bias and that this leads to changes in society for hte better. I am not basing this on anything rational it's just a feeling :^)

>>36907607
>I am not basing this on anything rational it's just a feeling
great
that's cool
as long as you're being honest that you're coming from that angle instead of trying to trick people into treating you with legitimacy you haven't earned

>>36907568

I've changed my opinion on things and grown as a person too, thanks to debates I've had on the internet.
Even this one with you has made me think and consider certain things I wouldn't have otherwise. You have made an impact on my life, however trivial it may be in the long run.

I'm this guy:
>>36906524
>>36907084
>>36907301

>>36902883
Blame the behavioral sink and overpopulation/overcrowding. More people means more conflict and the onternet only accelerates that. I know how you feel though man. I wish I could just buy some nice small house away from it all.

>tfw this thread turned into political dicsussions

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when dark day rember happy time

>>36907903
me on the left

oreganoli

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>>36904930
ah yes, Paul Joseph Watson. Reknown intellectual, 9/11 truther, conspiracy theorist, Mr. culture is degenerate because I don't like hip hop.

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>>36904424
edgy kid, edgy