Are we better off thanks to Civilization

Imagine being in ahunting tribe, surrounded by a your great family, your brothers and your qt supertraditional wife. You don't get ill because you live active life in nature and eat fresh food from the land.

Always an adventure. Always meaningful and exciting. You belong.

>>36888068
The fact that you are posting this is proof that it was worth it. Humans never had a better live than they do now thanks to civilization. Sure, life is still shit for some people. But that just means we still have a long way go before we live in a post-scarcity world.

>>36888106
>posting on 4Chan is proof that it was worth it
HAHAHAHABABABABABABAVAVABAVAVAVABAGA

hedonism is the only objectively provable reason to continue living, it always has been, technology didn't create that greater education just allowed more people to realise it

processed food is a choice, you can easily opt out of it and many people do including myself

environmental damage is a real concern though, as is social mobility. there will never be another war though thanks to technology.

It'd be alright if there were no Jews

>>36888141
>there will never be another war

There will be, because people are just itching to get their hands bloody at this point. The collective insanity and longing for chaos is reaching apocalyptic scales as we post.

>>36888164

not between the great powers

we will continue to bomb shitholes of course, but that's not real war. nobody is going to stand for conscription any more, civilised governments are limited to volunteer, professional armies. and of course, pax atomica endures.

the tensions today are way lower than they were during the cold war and if we navigated the cold war ok once we can do it again

>>36888141
How is it 'objectively provable'? Go ahead and 'objectively prove' it.

>>36888216
The new war will revolve entirely around the islamic hordes and a climate change fiasco.

>>36888246

doing shit that feels good makes you happy by altering your brain chemistry, that's an objective fact (in healthy people of course)

even when viewed on the cosmic scale this is not meaningless because the rewards are experienced tangibly

>>36888272

that's not really a war, it's more of a civil unrest issue

nobody is going to be drafted to fight in trenches ever again

>>36888126
In this case it applies. The fact that OP can be 20 something degenerate ( I assume) wasting his time on 4chan and playing vidya, with the option to get all his caloric needs in a single meal. Instead of searching for anything edible in the dirt because he is still a couple 100 calories short this day while hoping that nothing that thinks he is edible will find him.

OP might be well over the life expectance he would have otherwise.

>>36888068
It's better but civilization needs to do more evolving still. Things could always be better.

>>36888280
'Feeling good' and 'being happy' are the same things
>altering your brain chemistry, that's an objective fact
Yes, but preference of one brain chemistry above another is completely subjective.
>the rewards
Reward is subjective.

>>36888300
Because trenches are outdated war strategy, once the need arises people will be drafted to die in advanced, more fucked up ways

>>36888300
True. Not traditional war as you see it, but war nonetheless. Great masses of people fighting each other over what they perceive as the more righteous cause or way.

bitching about civilization, sitting comfortably in a heated room, posting through amazing magical device which allows you to instantaneously connect with with the whole world /and yes, masturbate to 2d animated girls/. omg! bad civilization, i wish we still died in our 40s

>>36888390
>preference of one brain chemistry above another is completely subjective
>Reward is subjective

I don't think human consciousness is developed enough for this to be true. The chemicals have more power over us than we have over them. If your brain is flooded with reward chemicals you will feel good, you don't have the power to change that like you do with other subjective tastes.

>>36888097
Then imagine no animu, art, etho, deep thinking, and vidya.

>>36888423
>If your brain is flooded with reward chemicals you will feel good
You are begging the question. Conflating 'feeling good' with having 'preference'. What you think of as 'feeling good' is abominable to me. It is the death of the mind.

>>36888409
>Died in our 40s
When will the uneducated stop perpetuating this falsehood? Yeah, if things went wrong you'd die early, but that's nature. That is the process by which weak genes are sorted from the strong.

If you didn't die of some bullshit like an infection, you'd still live to 60 or 70, easy. people would still die around that today if pharma companies didn't want to milk the decaying elderly for their pensions.

>>36888068
>progress created famine

>>36888097
>you don't get ill


holy shit you guys are delusional
you'd live in fear everyday trying to somehow feed yourself while also trying to not get killed by a wild animal and fucking dying of the common cold and shit

not to mention only the chadest chads would survive, it's survival of the fittest you stupid betas

>>36888068
With my personality, no.

For most of humanity, yeah probably.

>tfw you keep looking for some uninhabited remote island or piece of land to live on, it's all private property or a permit restricted national park with visitors

>>36888461
>What you think of as 'feeling good' is abominable to me. It is the death of the mind

It doesn't have to be drugs or alcohol, all kinds of healthy things can be considered hedonic in this view

>exercise
>games
>food
>orgasm
>music
>social interaction
>cuddling
>etc etc

any activity that releases reward chemicals can be appreciated as hedonistic

Now if you're saying the feeling of pleasure itself is what you don't like that's probably a mental illness. As I said earlier this only applies to healthy people.

>>36888443
>animu
Escapist trash
>art
Escapist trash, painting your tribal stories on walls of caves is superior
>etho, deep thinking
Trash, unecessary garbage which clogs the mind from beauty of life
>vidya
escapist trash, tribe life is an adventure the likes of which a screen and and a console cannot compare to

>>36888527
You are begging the question. Look it up. The brain chemistry is not the same for all people who do something they prefer over another action.

>>36888521
No, you are delusional. It's true that today this life is unfeasible because of population explosion and environmental degradation, but back then life would have been top comfy. So many fish, birds and animals you could never go hungry. And get real, no body EVER died of the common cold.

>>36888540
Tribe life is a life of meaningless suffering. The life of an animal.

>>36888466
40s - i was talking about the average age. because of course you lived to your 60-70 when things went well, but thing seldom went well, you fucking retard. also, pharma companies hurr durr. you sound like a conspiracy nut job. yeah thats exactly why we are making people live longer , so pharma companies could make money. you probably also think that soros is trying to establish new world order, dont you, you stupid fucking tinfoil moron

>>36888571
nature is not like a Disney movie

you're fucking retarded
go live in the fucking wild and we'll see how long you last

>>36888617
>>36888587
So much vitriol. these are the words of a man who relies more on feelings than fact. I think I've won here.

You know civilization only started because populations got too large too support the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, right? Or wait, you haven't read anything, have you? You're just here to shit on people because your lovely modern civilised life has made you a disconnected prick.

>>36888556
>begging the question

i did look it up but i don't see how it applies here

>The brain chemistry is not the same for all people who do something they prefer over another action

As I said it doesn't matter at all what the action is, experiencing pleasure is the only objective reason to live because it is the only thing in our lives that holds true on the cosmic scale.

If you or anyone else is unable to experience pleasure from healthy activities that doesn't disprove this assertion. It also doesn't mean subjective reasons to live are any less valid.

And also you are wrong anyway. if someone injected you with heroin for example unwillingly you would definitely still experience pleasure no matter how distasteful you found the idea. that's just how the brain works.

>>36888649
>these are the words of a man who relies more on feelings than fact.
You: facts are unnecessary things which clogs the mind from beauty of life

>>36888409
Is having a heated room really that big of a fucking deal? You'd think it would be a basic human necessity.

>le leisurely technology
So what? It doesn't make anyone happier. In fact, it's made people even less happy.

We've advanced technologically in a very impressive way. Yet, we've barely evolved as a species for thousands of years. We're still stupid selfish negative barbarians, just with a pretty modern-day mask on. Humans still get sacrifised by elite satan worshippers. Wars are still started on purposeful false allegations. World is purposely divided. Economies intentionally kept weak. Banks fucking everyone.

And I'm only really touching on the surface level here. If you knew how bad things REALLY were you'd want to top yourself 10 times over.

>>36888664
>but i don't see how it applies here
I explained it in my post. You conflate 'feeling good' with an objective state of the brain and again with 'showing preference'.
If you would, imagine a heroin addict faced with a choice. He has before him the means to get high, but he also has the option of choosing not to get high. If he chooses to get high his brain chemistry will be different from what it will be if he doesn't. Yet it is possible for him to prefer not getting high.
> reason to live because it is the only thing in our lives that holds true on the cosmic scale.
What does 'holding true on the cosmic scale' even mean?
>If you or anyone else is unable to experience pleasure from healthy activities that doesn't disprove this assertion.
Experience of pleasure is SUBJECTIVE. Brain chemistry is objective. What a person says is pleasurable is not equal to a specific state of brain chemistry.

>>36888718
>Humans still get sacrifised by elite satan worshippers.
Delusional.

>>36888748
Well you're not gonna read about it on the fucking jew-controlled news channel, are you?

>>36888788
>You're not going to read about the magical elves who control the world on the magical elf jew channels
As I said, you are being delusional.

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I'm always stunned by how ignorant the replies in these kinds of threads are. The modern day is the best time to live in human history, and that should really be blindingly obvious.

>>36888788
Brother, you gotta know when to stop. No one who hasn't been reading about these things for years will even begin to take you seriously.

The only evidence is anecedote and that one Clinton Administration email about the chicken sacrifice to Moloch.

>>36888732
>imagine a heroin addict faced with a choice

you have gotten lost in the trees here, this is all irrelevant, the only thing that we need to stipulate to is that reward chemicals objectively feel good, and i think we're there

>What does 'holding true on the cosmic scale' even mean

nothing we do will ever matter, our lives are meaningless, our species is meaningless when viewed on the immense scale of the universe. Raising a family, protecting the environment, feeding the poor, curing disease. All ultimately pointless.

But cumming still feels good for its own sake. Jogging still feels good. Eating a burger still feels good. Pleasure requires no higher meaning to be worth experiencing, it is its own reward.

>Experience of pleasure is SUBJECTIVE

I disagree as I said earlier, I don't think our consciousness is powerful enough to overcome brain chemistry. No matter how subjectively disgusting you find heroin use you will still experience pleasure from a heroin injection.

>What a person says is pleasurable is not equal to a specific state of brain chemistry

some forms of pleasure are subjective but many are objective and universal because of what they do to our brain chemistry.

>>36888864
>objective feel
Feeling is subjective.
>But cumming still feels good for its own sake. Jogging still feels good. Eating a burger still feels good. Pleasure requires no higher meaning to be worth experiencing, it is its own reward.
Here you are begging the question, once again.
>No matter how subjectively disgusting you find heroin use you will still experience pleasure from a heroin injection.
Begging the question.
>some forms of pleasure are subjective but many are objective and universal because of what they do to our brain chemistry.
Pleasure is by definition subjective. You feel pleasure. We do not look at a state of the brain and say "that brain is pleasure", we say such a thing as "dopamine is being released in that brain".

>>36888950
>>36888864
Fuckin hell I have never seen a more roundabout argument in my life. Bringing me to tears. Stop it you guys.

>>36888864
>chemicals objectively feel good
Yes. But surely you would agree that modern society has made overstimulation abundant? Civilization has made access to pleasure too frequent and often unearned. Hedonism is very bad in this context

>>36888950
>Begging the question

no, these things feel good because of the chemical reactions triggered in your body and brain, you have no control over it, it is not subjective. no healthy person thinks an orgasm feels bad.

>Pleasure is by definition subjective

no it can be caused by chemical reactions in your body over which you have no control and which are NOT subject to personal taste

>We do not look at a state of the brain and say "that brain is pleasure", we say such a thing as "dopamine is being released in that brain"

Yes we do. Dopamine is objectively pleasurable to experience for healthy people that's my whole point.


Anyway I'm out, got to go to bed. Have a good day/night/whatever.

>>36888649
look here you fucking retard, i'm in the vet right now because my pet is fucked up and won't eat, if it wasn't for this "evil progress" he'd be slowly dying right now instead of getting treatment

now imagine the same happening to you and your family members

>>36888068
Civilisation is good. It's just that we've lost purpose. All we focus on now is keeping the wheels turning, but we've lost the will, the destination that the wheels are supposed to turn towards.

>>36889045
>no,
Yes, you conflate your terms. It is a classic case of circular reasoning. Bad/Good = preference = will to choose one option above another.
>no it can be caused by chemical reactions in your body over which you have no control and which are NOT subject to personal taste
It is still subjective. Pleasure is experienced. Brain chemistry which is objective, is not experienced, it causes experiences.
>Yes we do.
No we don't. You do, because you do not understand the concept of objectivity.

>>36889059
But many illnesses have been cause by (((progress))). Carcinogens are abundant in our food, fast food gives us heart disease and is making us extremely obese, many of us don't get enough exercise because we sit in a desk for 10 hours a day

>>36889059
I would feel NOTHING. Just as I feel nothing for your defective animal.

If nature decrees than organism is unfit, then so be it. Let it die. All living must suffer and die, this is inescapable.

>>36888068
Well civilization and what came with it has ensured that we as species are wide spread and in the top of food chain, only real threat we have are from the elements and other humans unless we live off grid
I think we are approaching an era where manual labor will be replaced with automated robotic workforce, the system would have to adapt to that so human population in countries can be maintained
Citizenship's will be valued since there will be upkeep fees given to citizens so they may continue to function as consumers and in case of war cannon fodder to fight along side remote controlled robot units
The work that will not be replaced by automated robots will of course give out superior pay and will allow those citizens to rise to higher standard of living keeping in the tradition of capitalism that feeds on our vanity and greed
I think we are heading towards a humorous dystopian future that has been warped by bureaucracy and consumerism, old ways die hard maybe in further future they can finally reach a real utopian society

>>36888855
Finally someone gets it. Also Chitanda Eru also checked.

>>36888888
Peachy Keen. Origanal

>>36889173
he just broke his tooth and has a small intestinal blockage because of ingesting all the hair he's losing

not much defective about that
but you see, without medicine you could die of stupid shit like this

also thanks for exposing yourself as an edgy kid we shouldn't take seriously
don't worry you'll grow out of this phase

>>36889122
and how many illnesses not made by progress are there? how many illnesses does progress cure?

>>36888521
there is no survival of the fittest if you're on your own. just because i don't talk a lot doesn't mean i can't catch food for myself and live in the outdoors. you're a cuck

>>36889321
What's happening to your animal is quite natural, it sounds like it's time for it to die. When an organism's teeth are breaking and it's losing enough fur to choke itself with, that's the end of the line in nature.

I wouldn't be getting it treated, i would be getting it put down.

>>36889342
And you're wanna be "fat of the land" cowboy, you wouldn't have to do anything more than get an infected wound and you would die to the fever
Civilization made sure that even if you're dumb enough to crack your skull on pavement by driving without bike you still have a chance to survive through use of modern medicine, you think some asshats living in the wild would give two shits if their dumbass neighbor cracks their head or slips while getting water from the stream and gets infected wound?
Group effort is what has kept civilization rolling, current model does fuck over the ones at the bottom of the pyramid but the idea that everyone is able to (in theory) climb the pyramid is what kept capitalism going
Now i know in reality that system is pretty wonky especially in America but it's the best we got so far and even if you're piss poor you can still enjoy products from across the globe and will receive NEETbux so you don't starve
Room for improvement? definitely
Best we've made so far? yes

You want chance write a bill and chance it little by little

All these luxuries and unrestrained population growth are leading to a great collapse. You will hear them screaming soon enough.

What a wonderful time to be alive, indeed.

>>36888097
Imagine another tribe steals all your belongings, beats you to a pulp and rapes your wife infront of you.
Fun times.

>>36889502
>implying Chad doesnt do this now

>>36889368
he's not even fully grown, less than a year old
he just somehow fucked himself up in the mouth and is losing hair because that's just what happens when seasons change, he's losing his winter fur

no vet = infection + hair slowly accumulating until he can't pass down food anymore and dies

>>36889502
Imagine living in fear.

You don't have to imagine that though, do you?

>>36889423
>wanna be cowboy
hahah no cowboys have guns and stuff you don't know what you're talking about. there many natural ways to bandage and disinfect a cut. im not stupid enough to crack my head open to drink water. how have animals survived for so long without any science and all that bullshit? they just let things be and it's better that way.

>>36889549
I don't have to live in fear because our civilization has become powerful enough to reduce criminality and keep wars to a minimum.

>>36889526
God that's sad.

I'm not gonna tell you to kill that pupper. But I still stand by my beliefs.

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>>36889662
>our civilization has become powerful enough to reduce criminality and keep wars to a minimum.
majority of people are scared of the world ending because of nuclear bombs right now. people even pay money to have alarms and locks on their houses and pay to be protected by other people. it took all of the middle ages torturing, holocaust, and wars just to get here? you would think civilization would actually be decent by now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrEP3RPgEao

If civilisation had a voice

>>36889526
if you're gonna put him down. do it yourself, let him look out into a nice lake or something then kill him instantly. don't take him to some facility where he will be terrified.

>>36889806
>majority of people are scared of the world ending because of nuclear bombs right now.
Is that what you think or do you have a actual statistic to back it up?
I don't know a single person that feels a imminent sense of fear for that.

>people even pay money to have alarms and locks on their houses and pay to be protected by other people.
Better safe then sorry, it's a good thing we have technology that helps you protect yourself.
I think we can still improve society of course, but if you think those problems wouldn't be much more pressing in a tribe then you're delusional.

>>36889843
they'll just take out the tooth, give him things to treat the inflammation in his gum then do some other shit to get rid of the hairball stuck in his digestive system

see, that's the difference medicine and early intervention makes, he doesn't have to die because of dumb stuff like this

>>36889806
>Fear of nuclear war
Only a complete retard fears that.

>>36890102
>the world isn't full of retards

>>36890004
i wouldn't choose to live in a tribe

>>36888409
Why would you be so excited about a heated room on a day when it's 85 degrees Fahrenheit outside?

>>36888617
He can just watch Into the Wild

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>complains about civilization
>does not immediatelly go live in the forest
Stay beta and tell me more about how bad you have it, fucking pussy.

>>36891388
What if they like civilisation but just want a better version than this shitty one?