***Christian General Thread***

bump but in a origami way.

Ok, shameless self bump. Let's all hear the good news.

Another shameless self bump. Let's all hear the good news.

I feel like this is the wrong board/site for this

>>36650957
I've done it here before and have had good long threads!

>>36650355
>be me
>be christian
>live in one of the most atheist parts of the world
Feelsbadman

>>36651034
Don't worry. In fact, you can use this as an opportunity to spread the gospel to those who haven't heard it yet.

>>36651064
Yeah noooo. your seen as a quuk if you coem out as religious, even semi.

I assume this is bait, however I do have some genuine questions if you are a real Christian.
1. How can you be sure that Christianity is the right religion? This might seem like a bit of a meme question but to me having an answer to that would be very important if I were to ever consider the religion legitimate.
2. What do you believe the afterlife will be like? Do you believe in the idea of a distinct heaven and hell, eternity etc
3. Which Christian teachings do you disagree with?

>>36650355
>that pic
Why are there no amazing spectacles like this on earth? No ancients skeletons of colossal god-like titans.

All we get are these silly dinosaurs.

>>36651133
Well, try to swing the conversation to religion so it comes about naturally then talk about the gospel so you don't come off as weird.

>>36651227
>I assume this is bait
Why? If you follow all of the "cont of"'s you'll see that I am very much serious.

> How can you be sure that Christianity is the right religion?
History, prophecy and the message of the Bible itself.

>What do you believe the afterlife will be like?
Everyone will get what they want. If you do not love God, then you will be away from him if you love God then you will be near him. and yes I do believe in the idea of a distinct hell and heaven.

>Which Christian teachings do you disagree with?
None.

Any message you would like to give to an agnostic?

>>36651518
I would say believe to have your many sins forgiven. If you are uncertain about god's existence then I would just like to say how can something come from nothing?

>>36651227
>How can you be sure that Christianity is the right religion? This might seem like a bit of a meme question but to me having an answer to that would be very important if I were to ever consider the religion legitimate.
Because I choose to believe in a son of man who suffered wrongfully and chose to dedicate his life as a message of redemption.

>What do you believe the afterlife will be like? Do you believe in the idea of a distinct heaven and hell, eternity etc
What I believe the paradise will be like wouldn't do it justice.

>Which Christian teachings do you disagree with?
All non-divine teachings have room for improvement, some more than others, no matter how inspired by the divine they are, but having faith in truth is more important. Having a Love for the truth.

>>36651593
>I would just like to say how can something come from nothing?
It doesn't have to. Existence is not dependent on God. It could have existed for ever, that is how great of a creation it is. Just a theory.

Brief reminder that if you believe that humans have free will, you are not Christian.

God has pre-elected everyone who will enter heaven. Belief in God is not something you choose, it is something God chooses for you.

Proselytising is useless because God has already chosen who will and will not believe, who will go to heaven and who will go to hell.

>>36651701
>It doesn't have to.
Yes, it does. Anything otherwise would be illogical. See causation.

>Existence is not dependent on God.
It does since there needed to first be a uncaused cause otherwise nothing else in existence could have come into existence.

>It could have existed forever, that is how great of a creation it is.
Just a theory, yeah I could tell. There is no proof that the universe always existed. You even called it creation and a creation needs a creator.

>>36650355
Go preach your Abrahamic blood elsewhere, you blind believer.

>>36651925
Abrahamic blood god*, fucking voodoo necromancer zumbi demigod worshiper

>>36651881
There is no proof that there can be such a thing as an uncaused cause. The idea of an uncaused creator no more logical than the idea that the universe has existed forever, possibly even less so

>>36651703
>Brief reminder that if you believe that humans have free will, you are not Christian.
I believe in free will.

>God has pre-elected everyone who will enter heaven. Belief in God is not something you choose; it is something God chooses for you.
Amen! Are you a fellow Reformed Baptist?

>Proselytising is useless because God has already chosen who will and will not believe, who will go to heaven and who will go to hell.
No, we do not know who are the elect and who are not and so we preach to everyone so we can save our fellow elect Christians.

>>36651963
>There is no proof that there can be such a thing as an uncaused cause.
Well, it depends on how you think and look at it. You can't use a magnifying glass to see air and you can't use a wet finger to find an atom. But I can prove to you philosophically why it has to be so. just ask and you shall receive.

>>36651703
How do you think those choices were made? If you know how this existence works, you will know. How are humans born, and raised? Generations and generations of people, all of them grow up in relevance to their surroundings and to themselves. His choice is simply how things work. It's not so different from free will. In fact I don't believe he is managing everyones destiny, he just made the rules, and the wind of life, of his creation, made things the way they are.

Let's say you put a man that is predisposed to violence due to his genes, and a man who is predisposed to being peaceful, in a cage. You know what might happen. God knows what will happen.

>Proselytising is useless
This is contradicts what you just said in a way. You can't start believing if there isn't something that causes that, and that cause, even if it comes chosen by God, might be through something, or someone.

>>36651881
>Yes, it does.
So you mean it HAS to come from nothing? Why can you just take pieces and build something then?

>a creation needs a creator
And a creator that is omnipotent doesn't have to create it from a beginning. He can also create something that after the creation is independent.

In any case you are applying our limited logic capability to the divine, and when doing that you have to accept that this theory is a possibility as well.

> the idea that all came to be from nothing is absurd.
> I know! An Anthropomorphic deity did it!
Yea, makes much more sense.
> This phenomenal of nature lacks a logical explanation
> It's magic. I ain't gotta explain shit.
This is you.

>>36651925
>>36651951
Nah, god is cool. He died for my sins and stuff when he didn't even have to. If anything that super nice.

>>36652028
>So you mean it HAS to come from nothing? Why can you just take pieces and build something then?
I meant everything comes from something and so, therefore, need a creator just like a house needs a creator who will take pieces and build it up.

>And a creator that is omnipotent doesn't have to create it from a beginning.
??? What he creates it from the end? What point are you trying to make?

>He can also create something that after the creation is independent.
Yeah, he could but still doesn't prove that he doesn't exist.

>you have to accept that this theory is a possibility as well.
Well, your logic doesn't follow through and mine does. In the end, it is the gift of faith which saves us but still, it's your choice tp believe or not.

>>36652033
>Yea, makes much more sense.
Yeah, in fact, it does. Becuase at least we have a first uncaused cause that created everything else rather than nothing causing nothing to create something. It would make more sense to say that a magician can pull a rabbit out of a hat because even that at least has a first cause that actually pulls the rabbit out of the hat IE magician.

>This is you.
Our one gives the most logical answer rather than just saying nothing created something.

>>36652039
> Omnipotent everpresent deity
> Creates highly cephalized animal species capable of abstract thought and logic.
> Set a series of rules such specie must follow
> if they break they must pay back by slicing the throats of other creatures that he also made, but who are less worthy
> Decide to break the cycle, impregnating his own mother to give birth to himself
> Commits suicide/filicide to pay a price he demanded from his creatures for breaking the rules he set
> Now every human is in debt with the blood spilling deity
> Repay with undying loyalty or burn in a pit of fire for all eternity
> He loves you
Yeah, it truly makes sense. It obviously doesn't sound like some weird cosmogonic myth desert nomads from middle east would come up with 3 thousand years ago.

>>36652170
>first two replies
But he can create something that has existed forever. He is in some ways timeless. And he can make something that, after its conception, functions eternally. Meaning your initial question doesn't cover EVERY thing.

>Yeah, he could but still doesn't prove that he doesn't exist.
I'm not trying to prove that he doesn't exist.

>your logic doesn't follow through and mine does
Neither your logic nor mine follows through, because your logic is just an assumption that existence came from nothing in the first place, when even if God existed that can also not be the case. God, after all, didn't come from nothing.

If god is all holy and shit how come the catholic church has been one of the most corrupt organisations that ever existed?

>>36652240
Oh of course it makes more sense to believe supernaturality. It's just not more rational to do so. It's easier, though, I'll give you that. It spares you the trouble to seek the answers that permeates the birth of our universe, since you already have a unfalsifiable one.
But you forgot the little gap in your theist theory.
> Supernatural deity creates all universe
> After 14 billions of years, he tells a small group of desert dwellers how to behave
> All the universe was built for the sake pf those lucky chosen homo sapiens in one of the infinity of planets in the cosmos
> The same god that created the galaxies and laws that rule mass force and energy in the universe, did all of that for the sake of a terrestrial animal species that will last around 300 thousands of years, a brief second in the scale of the life age of the universe
> This same god that created all that exists is deeply concerned with the types of fabric these creatures cover their bodies with, alongside the semantics of their communication language and where they rest their reproductive organs
I don't think you are either smart enough to recognize the Absurdity of all this, or humble enough to step down the podium of faith "superiority" to confess how much sense it does not make.

>>36652268
>Commits suicide/filicide to pay a price he demanded from his creatures for breaking the rules he set
It wasn't suicide. If you see a man pull a gun up to your daughter and pull the trigger, then you jump in front to save her is that suicide? No, it's love. I think you're forgetting that God did it voluntarily, and so wasn;t forced and also did it out of love.

>Now every human is in debt with the blood spilling deity
Yeah, I don't think you understand the Christian religion. We were in debt before his death on the cross, and his blood freed us from this debt, and so we didn't have to go to hell but rather just believe.

>> Repay with undying loyalty or burn in a pit of fire for all eternity
Again the love is voluntary because he loved us first and died for our sins we love him. But it isn't a command but rather just something we do out of love and devotion. You can't choose to love someone, but when they save you from an eternal punishment by taking on your sins, then you will realise how loving he is.

>Yeah, it truly makes sense. It obviously doesn't sound like some weird cosmogonic myth desert nomads from the middle east would come up with 3 thousand years ago.
I don't. If you actually read up on history, you would realise that the 1st-century Christians actually died for this belief and it is a historical fact, and in fact, they died for their beliefs. Would you die for a lie? of course not. Clearly, they were convicted. This is only the tip of the iceberg, and once you understand the uniqueness of the message of the gospel, then you realise that it is from God.

>>36652496
because no matter how divinely inspired it is, its members are still humans, just like the followers of christ

>>36652430
Wait, you believe in god? What are we arguing about?

>>36650355
That's got to be the shittiest and most vague definition of the gospel I've read yet. Southern evangalist spotted.

>>36652513
I think you're just making assumptions about what god is like. Just from reading that green text it seems a though because you can't understand god's intentions and plans you just recount it as false. Don't make assumptions about god, that'll be a good start.

>>36652547

I call bullshit, look at the shit going on in Ireland at the moment, catholic church responsible for killing hundreds of women and their babies

>>36652530
There are, on this very moment, muslims dying for their faith too, who have the same inbreed alienated love (also known as cerebral washing) for their faith and their prophet. Yet, you think they're wrong and you are right?
Also, I don't believe persecuted Christians died for a lie. They died for what they believed in. If only you knew the human capacity to believe in bullshit. Look at yourself, for example.

>>36652574
I'm actually a reformed Baptist. But it is the entire gospel, and this whole thread, as well as the ones in the the cont" of..." are a more detailed explanation of it. I make it vague to leave room for discussions and so they can ask questions. I believe through asking questions and actually having a good dialogue it can make the other party better think about and understand the message of the gospel.

JESUS GOT KILLED BECAUSE HE WENT AGAINST RABBINICAL JEWISH TEACHINGS, BECAUSE ACCORDING TO JUDAISM GOD DOES NOT HAVE A SON. so the jews had him murdered.

SOME CRAZY IDIOT DECIDED TO WRITE DOWN THAT GOD SAID " I BEGAVE MY ONLLY SON FOR THEE SINS TO BE REMOVED" BULLSHIT

JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR HUMANITY SINS,, THAT IS THE BIGGEST LIE EVER

>>36652687
Yeah, there are Muslims dying for their sins but with Christians, it was the every follower of christ who we can historically prove existed and even died for christ. If the first Christians made up a religion for whatever reason then you would have died for a known lie which is something no one would do.

>>36652728
No, he didn't. In fact, I can prove from the old testament that christ was prophesied and had to die for our sins.

>>36652642
> We can't understand god's plan, he's rather complex
Phew, it didn't take long this time. The good and old falacy that just set any action from your abrahamic blood god as unfalsifiable since it's incomprehensible.
> Why he created all of the universe if we're all that matter-
> Don't make assumptions
> Why he waited 4,5 billion years to make humans appear if the earth was made for us since the beginning
> Assumptions
> Why he created clostridium botulinum or tripanossoma Cruzi that play no ecological role but to prey on humans health-
> Assumptions
Congratulations. You managed to dismiss all my questions about your false fairy tale deity with a single sentence. I can see how believing in something that doesn't make sense doesn't bother you. It's what you do, after all. It's the philosophical basis of religion. You accept the myth written and you don't question it nor look any further, and any doubt or inconsistency is actually a product of your flawed mind who can't understand god's perspective. It's truly a master's plan, I'll give you that. The people who created the abrahamic cults deserve this recognition after all. They truly made a religion bulletproof to rationality and perfect for blind worship. It's almost a work of art.

just lol at people that still believe in Jesus, its no coincidence that the more intelligent humans
become the ;ess religious they are

>>36652562
About your suggestion that someone should question how something can come from nothing, if that nothing isn't through God. It is possible that time has existed for ever, and assuming otherwise isn't the answer.


About my belief, I have faith. Does "believing in God" mean I have to claim to know his every face?

>>36652681
No matter how harsh what happens is, what I said still stands true.

>>36650355
Fuck off protestants, you don't have any theology of your own

>>36652530
>We were in debt before his death on the cross, and
For what? For the original sin?
Born in debt... It's really convenient. Everyone before christ went to hell and are burning there to this day?
Everyone who isn't touched by insanity, or how you call it, faith, is condemned to burn for eternity?
Truly loving indeed. I tremble to wonder what he would do if he hated us.

>>36652823
> I can prove from the old testament
Laughing at the Christian idea of what proof is.
I can proof from Hesiodo that Gaia is the everloving mother of earth.

>>36652892
>Phew, it didn't take long this time. The good and old falacy that just set any action from your abrahamic blood god as unfalsifiable since it's incomprehensible.
I was referring to the fact that you thought that it was absurd that God would create the universe and wait 10 billion years and what not to save an elect few. Then I said you're making assumptions about god, which you shouldn't do. Also, I believe that we can understand god's plan I do however believe that God is incomprehensible but what he has revealed to us we can understand.

And you did it again. God waiting for 5 billion years to create us does not mean that he does not exist. He decided to do it that way, and so he did.

>>36652892
Your assumption is that things are imperfect just because they aren't all the same function wise. God existing doesn't inherently mean this has to be any different.

>>36652957
I believe by "we" he means all our souls, even from before, but I don't know for sure the logic behind it. If so, this next thing applies to those other people too.
>Everyone who isn't touched by insanity, or how you call it, faith, is condemned to burn for eternity?
I don't think that's the case, in the supposition that faith is necessary to enter heaven. You can also not enter in heaven and not be condemned to hell at the same time, maybe.

>>36652893
If you have any questions feel free to ask.

>>36652924
Alright then fair enough but still something coming from nothing is absurd, and a creation needs a creator. I highly doubt God can create an eternal being that does not have a begging. If it was created, then it has a beginning.

>>36652942
Yeah, we do!

>>36652957
Again a misrepresentation of our beliefs. The true believers who died before Christ's death also are with God right now what Christ accomplished on the cross was allow people to be sinless and faith is what saves genesis 15. If he hated us then he wouldn't have even gave us a chance to live but rather simply sent us to hell immediately.

>>36653021
The OT was written prior to the birth of christ. see dead sea scrolls. And so if it talks about christ it's a prophecy that has been fulfilled.

>>36653261
> You can also not enter in heaven and not be condemned to hell at the same time, maybe.
No, there is not in between in christ only good and bad

>So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Revelations 3:16

>>36653282
Actually some say the prophecy is not fulfilled. Some being the Jews and the Muslims.

>>36653282
>I highly doubt God can create an eternal being that does not have a begging. If it was created, then it has a beginning.
But God can be timeless, no? What stops him from making other timeless things?

>>36653328
Then how can his word reach everyone? Specifically, how can the exact words of Christ that are necessary reach people? I'm not asking God for the answer, I'm asking what are your thoughts.

>>36653127
I know what you said. I understood it perfectly fine.
You have no explanation to why god waited so long (and created so much more) if all revolved around homos sapiens. And you call him incomprehensible.
In other words,you dismissed all my possible questions about your false fantasy deity by simply saying that he is beyond our comprehension.
Congratulations. It's truly a master way to escape by the tangent. I don't think there is anything else to be said here. I could enter in the misty realm of detailed inconsistencies of your holy text, but I never liked doing that. It's so pretty, so vain. It feels like I'm stepping down to your level of argumentation, which is atrocious. I don't care what the holy text says to begin with. My problems with faiths are much greater than contextual semantics in fairy tales and come much before that. It's ontological, it's where I like to question believers. The Absurdity of an antropomorphic deity in our universe. The Absurdity of a proud, greedy and hungry for love and worship, caring deity, partial about the grievances of daily life. If you were a deist, there would be little I could say. It's a much more rational way of thinking. There's a supernatural force behind the universe, that orchestrated its creation. This deity would be truly superior, meaning that it would care not for the actions and thoughts of these specimen in that tiny blue planet... Otherwise it would be as if Poseidon cared about the direction of atoms of hydrogen in the depths of the ocean. I think christians fail to realize how small and irrevocably irrelevant an animal is in the big spectrum of the universe, and that its creators (if there is a conscious creator) can't possibly give a damn about human behaviour. Let alone build an entire universe, populate an entire planet solely for these animals of one single species.

>>36653396
First of all, Muslims do believe the prophecy has been fulfilled since they believe in jesus. As for the jews some jews do and they're called messianic jews. I wouldn't mind a discussion on this topic.

>>36653414
>But God can be timeless, no? What stops him from making other timeless things?
Well, even if he's timeless, if he created something then it has a beginning and is not timeless since there was a period of time when it did not exist but god on the other hand always excited.

>>36653282
>The OT was written prior to the birth of christ.
Missing the point this hard.
A text is not proof, you false prophet lover. As in my analogy, Homer's Iliada is not proof that Achilles existed and was a demigod. Your holy texts may serve the spiritual purpose for you, but they don't serve as evidences of anything.

OP I believe in the Christian god myself. Though I don't go to church and I live like a complete sinner. Have you ever realized that every Sunday the sermon is pretty much the same at church? Sure It may be in a different tone or different style, but each sermon given by pastors is pretty much recycled. It's exciting when you're a new born and go to church for a couple of months, but eventually, if your IQ is at least 120, you'll notice and get bored of the recycled messages the pastors have to to talk about. At least that was this issue for me, other than that, Christianity is a nice religion.

>>36653414
>Then how can his word reach everyone? Specifically, how can the exact words of Christ that are necessary reach, people? I'm not asking God for the answer, I'm asking what are your thoughts.
What did I say? Sorry forgot.

>You have no explanation to why God waited so long (and created so much more) if all revolved around homos sapiens.
God might have waited so long for a number of reasons, one being that he was simply taking time to create. It could also be due to God making things in prices. In the Bible, we are described as clays and God being the potter who creates things from the clay. There are a number of reason why God would have taken time each with their won individually good reasons

>And you call him incomprehensible.
Yes, I believe that God is incomprehensible but despite this, I don't believe what he has revealed to us is so since he ha commanded us to learn and preach it to others.

>>36653431
>This deity would be truly superior, meaning that it would care not for the actions and thoughts of these specimen in that tiny blue planet
Not him. But what stops said deity from caring? It can care infinitely after all. It can care about every single tiny thing, and not be busy. Just saying, when people say that deity cannot care, it's not as if the person they are arguing against is egocentric ALWAYS, it's also that they are projecting their thoughts of insignificance on the possibilities.

>>36653491
No, God is omnipotent. I won't believe that limitation! It goes against my logic. I discard that notion as lack of wisdom.

>>36653542
The reason why it's evidence is because it was written prior to Christs birth and prophesied things. Homers illyad did not make any prophecies and the OT did.

>>36653623
>No, God is omnipotent. I won't believe that limitation! It goes against my logic. I discard that notion as lack of wisdom.
Omnipotence just means all-powerful, it doesn't necessarily mean that he can do illogical things such as make a one ended stick or build a square cube. futhermore the bible even states things that god cannot do such as lie Titus 1.2

File: Marten_Eskil_Winge_-_Thor's_Fight_with_the_Giants.jpg (425KB, 1111x1600px) Image search: [Google]

425KB, 1111x1600px

>>36650355
HEIL THOR!

>>36653622
damn forgot to link you!>>36653431
second paragraph.

If god created the universe and everything in it, who created god when there was nothing?

theres so many religion how do you know you have the right one?

youre not allowed use your own book as evidence

>>36653889
Good question. Well, one of the biggest differences between God and the universe is that the universe had a beginning and so something that had a beginning IE creation, needs a creator. Now god doesn't have a beginning and so, therefore, is exempt from this since he always existed and in some Christian school of though it is even offensive to say he even existed and we simply say he was always there.

>>36653913
Historical facts, biblical prophecies and among a whole other set of things that are just too crazy to pass off as coincidences.

>>36653441
They believe Jesus to not be the son of god, so the whole dieing for our sins and ressurection thing is nonsense to them.

Are these Jesus loving Jews the minority or majority?

>>36653974
>Historical facts


like?

also why did christian high jack the pagan holiday of christmas and pass it off as jesus birthday?

>>36653777
And I don't believe what I said is entirely illogical. Maybe for Him something that exists for as long as He does isn't illogical. If God had made our observable existence out of himself, the comprising parts came into being from the moment of his own beginning, which can be said to not exist. This is just a clue for what can be as timeless as God.

>>36653889
What is said is that he always existed.

>>36653622
How can words necessary for people to go to heaven reach everyone? Words of Christ included. Can you only be "good" through those words? What are your thoughts.

>>36653623
Well I suppose you can believe that an infinite being can, at the same rate, create everything that has ever existed and ever will, and feel personally offended if you touch your genitals. Offended enough to cast you on the eternal fire for it. Such being is infinite, after all. It can do it if it may want so.
Does it make any sense? No it doesn't. A better question is more epicurian: is it worthy to worship such deity?
But as a rationalist I'd rather sum 2 plus 2. It's so painfully obvious after all. Humans feel the need to create cosmogony the same way they feel the need to create art. Whether it's to explain where they come from and where they go after death, or to numb the nauseating anguish of nature's apparent chaos, humans throughout all history have created cosmogonic myths. Almost every known culture have one. With Hebrews it was no different. They also had their creation myth that spoke of a all powerful being that could be loving,but could also be frightening. The perfect way to ensure law and order, the perfect way to assure oneself that after this horrendous life of hard work and constant suffering there would be a reward, but only for those who so believed it. Of course the religion does not appear from day to night. It takes generations of oral stories being told and retold, until a religion as we know it is finally born, with its dogmas, sacraments, and myths. Why did it spread like wildfire, that's the remaining question I will not dare to answer. The roman emperors were Ultimately inept to contain it, the prophet jesus played a part, the prophet Muhammad played another, and hebrews constant Exodus also helped it spread. But perhaps abraham promess of eternal salvation, plus the fear of eternal damnation, are to blame for the widespread.
It's the rational take on the story. It's either that or there's a potentially sadistic deity playing with laws of physics up there in the sky. You may choose whatever soothes your soul.

How come god used to appear to epopel way back when but he doesnt anymore?

>>36654036
No sure, I think you can lurk on the net and find your answer but from what I do know most Israelis aren't devout jews and the yarmulka wearing Shabbat preserving jews are in the minority. So perhaps it's best to say that most are secularists.

>>36653974
>>36654055
Is there any info regarding that in the bible? To me it doesnt make sense, it seems like you're supposed to rely on blind faith and belief. If there was nothing in the whole of the universe, how was god created? how did he exist in nothing? IMO thats where this kinda goes back to evolution. what do christains believe happened? did god just *clap* humans are now a thing and all life on earth now exists?

I feel completely lost in life, everyone in my life including myself hates me, I want to end it all. Would Christianity help me?

>>36654039
>like?
Well, if you study the early church you will understand that Christ, in fact, appeared in a dream to 500 apron people. This might sound crazy, but it is, in fact, a historical fact that almost all scholars agree with. The gospel of Mark, which was said to be written in the year 70 was in fact given that late dating because it made a prophecy that came out to be true and because of atheist who use atheistic presuppositions that miracles cannot happen they then gave it that late dating to account for the miracle.

>>36653974
>biblical prophecies
> Old testament talks about a coming prophet
> Later,a man who had access to such writings claims to be such prophet
> Majority of people don believe him
Hmmm it's almost as if it was a fraud...
Also, I'm partially scared to read what you consider historical fact, since you think the bible is actually evidence...
Let me guess, you think the miracles jesus "performed" are true because bible said so?
Do you even know that hebrews were not slaves in ancient Egypt, since their modus of production was not slavery, but collective servitude/asian modus of production?

>>36654060
You assume I was claiming that deity to be the Christian one. I wasn't. I was merely talking about the superior deity, that you said possibly doesn't give a damn about the minor details.

Things like "HOW DARE YOU say that said creator cares about us minuscule beings?" when they are talking about a truly superior being doesn't really stick with me. Said deity can still care about every single atom and unatom of his creation, in whatever way it does. And time, or number, doesn't really stop it from doing so.

>>36654213
> Given the late dating
Is that how you deal with the lies on your textbook? You say that a spooky atheist faked it?

How do I develop faith? I want to believe but I honestly just don't. Yet I do believe in demons, which is weird, I know.

>>36651703
absolute calvanist filth

>>36654055
>And I don't believe what I said is entirely illogical.
I don't know but there are things god doesn't do like lie but then again who can know fully god?

>How can words necessary for people to go to heaven reach everyone? Words of Christ included. Can you only be "good" through those words? What are your thoughts.
I think I know what point you're trying to make. Well, we are told to spread the gospel and whoever believes will be saved. Don't worry about who will and will not believe just preach and god shall do the rest of the work.

>>36654077
I believe he still does but the thing is that back then I bet you it was just as rare as it is now just that back then god focused on it more making it appear as though it just always happened but most likely there were atheists there too who didn't believe for the same reasons you did.

>>36654158
(Psalm 90:2)
Deuteronomy 32:40
(Isaiah 41:4
(1 Timothy 1:17
And much much more!

>>36654175
Yes, but you must believe first to be saved and god will fill your heart with his love and then your life will have purpose since you know that the creator of the universe loves you.

>>36654266
And I agreed with you. Said omnipotent deity CAN theoretically creat everything and still care about miniscule details on a single species on earth, since it can do anything.
My point is, it doesn't make sense. And as a man of reason, I'm inclined to believe a more sensible explanation. Hebrews had their cosmogonic myths that spread throughout the west. Period.
In the end it's a matter of choice. I hate christians like the preacher in the thread, that talk about their religion with that extra dose of conceit and pride, like their beliefs are actually the only rational possibility, and that anyone should convert immediately because it's the right thing to do.
I myself see that in the end of the day it comes down to a personal choice. No proofs, no facts, no debates,no evidences, nothing of these matter because no one has ever stuck with faith or turned their back on it because of those. It's merely a choice. You chose to believe. I didn't.

>>36653913
It is different ways that humans interpret the 'god head', the center of divinity. Christianity identifies this as God and uses Jesus Christ's sacrfifice and the teachings of the prophets to discern the true nature of divine truth. It comes down to which you find most convincing of the central arguments of existence. If you believe in a good world and a 'western' moral code, then it's easy to be Christian. It all comes down to how you best understand 'good'. That thought process should lead you down a religious road.

>>36654320
start with the hippie stuff

like what is Love?

and let's say an example of this Love is
>the way the light of the sun shines on a leaf
or
>the way the water touches the coastlines

How many things can this be applied to?

Okay but then to what end does this Love exist? Now you really have to start imagining, from the start of existence, and towards way beyond your lifetime. In those thoughts you will see some type of current pushing everything to one direction. I won't claim this is what faith you need, but I think this is important for building the base of any faith.

Am I gunna burn in hell for fapping to anime girls?

>>36654320
Ypu don't need Abrahamic myths and dogmatism to develop spirituality and feel a special connection with the universe that surrounds you. You can just seek your own god inside yourself. We are gods, for that matter. Find the spirituality inside your very self,and become independent from all else, including Hebrew's blood god and their false prophets.

>>36654231
>Majority of people don believe him
it began the biggest religion in the world!

>Also, I'm partially scared to read what you consider historical fact
Well, since you're an atheist I would direct you to the text by Josephus, who was an ancient Jewish historian who wrote about Jesus. Also, the writings of 1 Corinthians is dated to the year 50, which is the time the apostle Paul, who is the person who wrote it, lived. This is good because it gives us an insight into how the church was like in the early days. Also countless scholars, including atheist, agnostic and of course, Christians al agree on the historicity of Jesus the crucifixion but then again that's appealing to authority.

>>36654291
Yeah, this is the typical response I get. If you want proof then feel free to ask.

>>36654320
Well, faith is a gift from god and the bible tells us for faith to grow it needs to be in the right environment like a seed needs to be watered and taken care of to grow. What I would say to you is pray seek to come closer to god.

>>36654491
Don't worry. God has given you a way out, and so you only need to believe, and you're saved.

>>36650355
>One enters into heaven through faith alone, for Christ had already died for our sins and so what could we possibly add on to that?

So a serial killer with faith gets into heaven because Jesus died for his sins, while a morally upright individual goes to hell if he doesn't believe?

Sounds kinda like a steaming pile of shit and obvious enticement to get people into a spiritual pyramid scheme if you ask me.

>>36654638
Thanks for that I always enjoy answering these questions and so I direct you to this comment. >>122453357

>>36654537
I don't doubt the historical existence of jesus, the same way I don't doubt Mohammed's existence. I doubt jesus divinity, the same way you doubt the divinity of non Christian prophets.
That is, I don't believe he performed the miracles.
But you know what, there's one thing I like about jesus. I think it's the mountain sermon... "Turn the other cheek". Those are very beautiful words. For me it's what makes him stand compared to Mohamed and other prophets. Peace above all. The necessity of peace. The evilness of violence. The necessity of not reciprocating violence, even when violence is done unto you. The only person who would repeat this speech would be Ghandi, 2 thousand years later. It's a shame many Christians forget about those lines. They're much more prone to remember things like "you'll burn in hell forever". I can't fully appreciate Christ because he used violence once, to kick those merchants off the temple.

>>36654638
>Actually here's the answer
Good question! I deliberately not include the answer so that people can ask this question and I can respond to it. The reason why I do this is because I believe that through conversation and effective questioning it can cause you to think deeper about the truth of the gospel. Ok, I'll begin.

Yes, we are saved from faith alone apart from works. This is an undeniable truth of scripture Jut look at this verse from Romans in the Bible

>For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:28

But then this make one wonder. Doesn't this contradict James?

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

But what one must first understand is that there are two kinds of faith. One is false faith, the type that even the devil has, then there's true faith; the type that brings forth good fruits IE proof of it's existence by doing good works. A better verse to understand this would be on James as well.

>https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james+2:14-20
James 2:14-20

So what does this tell us? It says that if you have faith but it does not bring good fruits then it is false. A truly saved man will do good works not to get something out of God since his heavenly place has been set for him since he has been saved by the blood of Christ but rather that we do it out of love. You treat your children nicely out of love not to seem good to them, and so we do the same for god. We love God and so try to please him. Theoretically, you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that due to your love of God.

Hope that answered your question.

Don't know what happened.

>>36654698
>I doubt jesus divinity
There's even evidence for that.

>>36654739
I'd love to see it

>>36654433
>My point is, it doesn't make sense.
As in, you don't have all the knowledge necessary to make an assessment. I understand.

>I myself see that in the end of the day it comes down to a personal choice
And I believe the only personal choice you have to make is whether you love truth or not. Now you can put aside considerations for later, but think well about how much life you have left in you. This isn't me implying that you should consider a deity or it could be fatal. I am just saying that in order to love someone, or something in this case, you have to trust it, and there are more ways you can have trust, even with your current perspective on reality. i.e. Faith in existence itself.

>>36654763
hey, check out what I wrote here.
>>36654213
Also bare in mind this isn't even my final form.

>>36654717
Sola Fides is the worst theological doctrine to come out of the Reformation. it's one thing to be anti-papist, there was good reason to be, but discarding works as a central part of salvation is against all reasonable exegesis.

I never could buy it.

>>36654717
>But what one must first understand is that there are two kinds of faith. One is false faith, the type that even the devil has, then there's true faith; the type that brings forth good fruits IE proof of it's existence by doing good works. A better verse to understand this would be on James as well.
Isn't that just a selection bias? You can copy and paste that same argument and "prove" just about anything you want, so surely it proves nothing?

>>36654875
Well, at least engage with my arguments. Anyway tink of it this way. Is it more beautiful for someone to do good works for god to keep his saving blood or is it more beautiful to say that we do god works for him out of love and not obligation?

>>36654913
>Isn't that just a selection bias? You can copy and paste that same argument and "prove" just about anything you want, so surely it proves nothing?
No, the bible clearly states what the message of the gospel does. see phillip 1:6. God would not make you a Christian to then later make you fall even deeper into sin. The good works we do are not our own but rather god working withing us. see phillip 2:12-13

So OP if you came home one day and your wife said she was preggo but the babby was gods would you believe her?

>>36654779
Oh wow, for a moment I thought you were a cool christian, but I guess you're just another "holier than thou repent or burn" type. Shame. I truly opened my heart for nothing.
I don't think that I lack the knowledge to make assessments. What's the logic behind creating an entire universe to leave empty and dead, only to care about a single species of animals in that tiny blue planet? You don't even have to take the universe in perspective, what's the point of creating life diversity on earth to only care about a single species? What's the logic of a superior being that cares about the way the ant moves its legs? You can use the good and old "god's plan is far complex for us to understand" which is just a fancy way of saying: it doesn't make any sense. As we know logic, it's illogical. So I turn my back to that because I prefer reason over faith.
I see reason when we analyze the hebrews as we analyze every other Civilization that has left traces on the earth, and come to the conclusion that they created their cosmogonic myths that later spread across the west. For me, that's the truth. For you, I'm delusionally denying reality, which is exactly what I think of you, and so we're caught up in this vicious cycle, this tour de force, which makes me inclined to "believe" that in the end of the day faith is a choice. A choice you've made, a choice I didn't. And it's as likely that I change my mind as you change yours.

>>36655003
No, that only happened once and for a reason. Besides an angel came to Joseph as well to tell him about it. To follow what happened in the bible I would give her three days for an angel to appear to me, and if nothing happened, then I would just break the relationship. I mean that baby would have to come out talking for me to believe her again.

>>36654433
Well, I am giving you a choice. I mean read my OP I never once told anyone to convert but rather just said that come and let's discuss. Really, in the end, God decides who believes and all I'm doing is spreading the message.

>>36654997
>The good works we do are not our own but rather god working withing us.
So people have no responsibility for being a good person? Any good I do is just God using me as a puppet, and by extension I have never actually done anything nice to another person? Would be a shame if the whole of life was as shallow as the forced apologies of remorseless children after being caught.

I'm waiting for evidence of jesus miracles.
Walking over water. Multiply fish. Bring back zombie Lazarus.

>>36655061
I'm not a christian, anon.

> don't think that I lack the knowledge to make assessments.(...)
You lack knowledge. So do I. What point is there in denying this? All you're doing is projecting your insignificance on possibilities of greater powers.

>I see reason when we analyze the hebrews as we analyze every other Civilization that has left traces on the earth, and come to the conclusion that they created their cosmogonic myths that later spread across the west. For me, that's the truth. For you, I'm delusionally denying reality, which is exactly what I think of you, and so we're caught up in this vicious cycle, this tour de force, which makes me inclined to "believe" that in the end of the day faith is a choice. A choice you've made, a choice I didn't. And it's as likely that I change my mind as you change yours.
You misunderstood what I meant by "love of truth, trust in truth and faith in reality." You don't have to know the full truth of reality to have faith in it. Faith doesn't have to be connected to religion either.

>>36655125
It really comforts my heart that when I'm burning in the fires being devoured by satan, that fate was chosen to me by god. It was his plan all along. What a delightful existence. I hope you will find all you look for in heaven, though. I wish nothing but happiness for you.

>>36655144
Well, yeah. We are god's instrument and we are so proudly. You hit th nail on the head there when you said

> I have never actually done anything nice to another person

Because we have done nothing that is pleasing to god but despite this god chose us and died for us out of pure love. And to experience this love all you have to do is believe.

>>36655145
Well, you weren't there so I can't really prove it. Maybe get a time machine and go back in time 2000 years.

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>>36650355
Glad you're spreading the good news friend.

OP what is your political affiliation and how do your personal beliefs align with your religious beliefs?

>>36655061

Hi, I'm not the guy you're responding to and I haven't posted in the thread so far...

>What's the logic behind creating an entire universe to leave empty and dead, only to care about a single species of animals in that tiny blue planet? You don't even have to take the universe in perspective, what's the point of creating life diversity on earth to only care about a single species? What's the logic of a superior being that cares about the way the ant moves its legs? You can use the good and old "god's plan is far complex for us to understand" which is just a fancy way of saying: it doesn't make any sense. As we know logic, it's illogical. So I turn my back to that because I prefer reason over faith.

Just imagine that instead of how we see history today, where humans exist all over the planet, imagine that instead educated, literate human beings capable of considering the universe happened to exist on one Island, or one continent on Earth, but none of the others. Does the existence of non-colonised space somehow invalidate the fact that those humans are the highest, most complex 'things' in existence on that planet? The land masses at that stage that hadn't been colonised are just that... physical material, it isn't conscious. Human beings are the most advanced thing on the Earth that we know of, that's for sure, and while the size of the universe suggests life should theoretically exist elsewhere, it doesn't mean it does. All the stars and planets out there are just... physical material. We are still the most significant thing. Just as the non-colonised land mass on Earth forms the structure of the Earth and is thus important to the structure and existence of the continent that the people exist upon, all that physical material in space IS relevant to the overall structure of the cosmos.

>>36655155
As my petty human mind conceives reason, I see none in Anthropocentric monotheism. That's as far as rationality goes. I see no point in speculating how would a superior incomprehensible deity would behave and then arbitrarily chosing a mythology to follow.
I also don't understand what you mean by your "have faith" speech. You're not christian, so what exactly are you preaching?

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>>36650355
Christainity is mental retardation, just like every organized religion on the face of the earth

>m-m-muh prophecy
https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/fulfilled-prophecies-of-holy-quran/

>>36655217
You be 92+8 with you, even the devil will be in torment in hell. No one is getting a break in hell, but rather everyone in there is not in for a good time.

But think of it like this. You have realised your helplessness against God. You're weak and can't do anything. Now God says not to worry rely on him, and you will be saved because it is not God that sends people to hell but ourselves through our action and it is god's desire that everyone comes to know him. 1 Tim 2:4

That's what I did.

>>36655275
Are you that WOLFE guy I say on /pol/? Anyways hi and thanks.

>>36655312
I believe that the bible especially the NT preaches a more of a socialist ideology and I kinda agree with that. The main thing that stops us from creating a good society is our sinful nature. If humans weren't so greedy then I believe that communism would actually work.

If God is real, fuck him for making me.

>>36655342
>I see no point in speculating how would a superior incomprehensible deity would behave and then arbitrarily chosing a mythology to follow.
Yet you were talking about how a superior deity wouldn't care about us at all simply because it was superior. All I meant to say was that is just a projection of your, or ours, insignificance, on that superior being. But you just can't understand that christianity morals don't have to apply to that being. It can be a control maniac, how is that illogical? It also doesn't have to be anthropocentric or anthropomorphical. Anyways, as you've said there's no point in speculating this for us.

>I also don't understand what you mean by your "have faith" speech.
Why are you still alive? Why are you progressing through your life? You can argue that you are a mechanism, and are acting your function. But there's a piece that is missing there. A certain trust in the reality you live in. A trust, or faith in the way things work.

Faith can be said to be complete trust in something. How far can your trust go regarding your existence?

>so what exactly are you preaching?
The Love of Truth, my friend.

>>36655380
Yeah, exactly. I will echo to you what I said to another anon.

>You see the reason why an atheist doesn't believe isn't because of proof or anything but a much deeper problem. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, Lazarus is a rich man, and the rich man is, yes you guessed it, rich. There comes a time when they both die and the rich man goes hell, and the poor man goes heaven. On thing that he said while in hell was let me appear to my son so that I can save them because if they see me, they will believe. Now, this wasn't granted to him because even if his sons saw him in a dream, they still wouldn't have believed. The same would go for you even if the Bible had prophecies you would just say well other scriptures have prophecies and so there is no use.

I hope God shines his light upon you and you believe.

>>36655417
Hahaha. You aren't alone my friend. read Jeremiah 20:14-18

>>36655326
I don't see exactly what is your point...
The thing with Inteligent design is, using the example you gave, if the concious creator made this word intended for humans above all, and humans getting on the other unpopulated continents is out of his plan, why the hell did he create the other continents for? It's not just one or 2 more continents we are talking about... We are talking about an infinite universe in expansion with such diversity of matter far too great to be grasped... All that and we're the focus of the party?

Even in our own continent, life is so diverse and abundant, biologically speaking we're not better nor more complex than the other creatures that roam the earth... And even so that's all for us... We're the big star of the creation, and everything else he made was because of us... He even made us his own image...
It's illogical, as far as we take our logic. You can, again, say that his plan is beyond our human comprehension.
The same way I can reason that hebrews created their myths, just like the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Celtic, the Hindus, the american natives, the Maia, the Aztec the Incas, the Persians, the Mesopotamians, the Aboriginal, and be done with Anthropocentric mythology once and for all

>>36655520

>Man named Lazarus dies and wants to be raised from the dead to turn people towards faith
>Denied because there's no use
>Jesus raises a man named Lazarus to turn people towards faith

Hmmmm, really makes you think...

>>36655577
Huh hmmmm

Huhhhhh....

>>36655577
>>36655626
yes but even though Jesus raised a man called Lazarus from the dead the Jews he did this in front of still didn't believe in him and said that he is doing it by the power of Satan.

>But when the Pharisees heard it they said It is only by Beelzebub the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons
Matthew 12:24

>>36655513
Well I suppose you're right. But it's not what bible says...When I say illogical I refer to the representations of said deity in the bible. If you let that go, I'll be disarmed, there are no possible argumentation against the possibility of existence of a deity that does whatever it pleases outside of: you can't prove it.

>>36655560

>I don't see exactly what is your point...

My point is that the vastness of the cosmos doesn't necessarily detract from the significance of human consciousness. No matter how many planets you have, planets are just empty matter. A human might is vastly more complex and amazing.

>The thing with Inteligent design is, using the example you gave, if the concious creator made this word intended for humans above all, and humans getting on the other unpopulated continents is out of his plan, why the hell did he create the other continents for?

You're getting off the meaning of my metaphor. I'm saying, in THEORY, human life could have perhaps evolved to the point of literacy and contemplating the universe while stuck on an Island or a continent, while other continents existed uncolonised. I live in Australia for example which wasn't colonised until the 1700's. We could imagine that Australia NEVER got colonised, but Australia as a continent still plays a role in the structure of the Earth on which all continents exist, doesn't it? The fact that 'uncolonised' space exists out there doesn't invalidate the significance of human consciousness, it just opens up the possibility that equally or more conscious beings exist out there.

>Even in our own continent, life is so diverse and abundant, biologically speaking we're not better nor more complex than the other creatures that roam the earth...

I'm sorry but seriously? A literate, educated human being IS more complex. Even an illiterate human being is a more complex - conscious - thing than say a spider or an amoeba.

>And even so that's all for us... We're the big star of the creation, and everything else he made was because of us... He even made us his own image...

Is a rock more significant to you than a dog?

And even so that's all for us... We're the big star of the creation, and everything else he made was because of us... He even made us his own image...

>>36655668

But why did Jesus bother at all, if as the parable relates... there was no point in the OTHER Lazarus being brought back from the dead to prove a point? I'd also like to point out that the Lazarus in the parable wasn't "in hell" as you said, he was in HADES, the greek mythological realm of the dead. Was Jesus a pagan??

Hmmmm, really makes you think...

>>36655787
>But why did Jesus bother at all, if as the parable relates
They don't. There are more than one lazarus in the bible.

>there was no point in the OTHER Lazarus being brought back from the dead to prove a point?
No, he thought that appearing to his sons will save them from hell and give them faith but that's not it since they could have even doubted the dream.

>Jesus a pagan?
When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BC, the word "Hades" (the Greek underworld) was substituted for Sheol, and this is reflected in the New Testament where Hades is both the underworld of the dead and the personification of the evil it represents.

>>36655711
>you can't prove it
Yeah I guess not even if you observe, illogical alterations that only such a superior power could perform, because in the end to prove its source it would require you to have knowledge of its power.

Only it can prove its existence, but even then you can choose to seek out another answer, and if you have no way of doing so to begin with you're at an impasse.

Even if "Miracles" happen, you still can't prove it because you would have no knowledge of their workings.

Only said deity can prove its own existence. But even then you can choose to believe it to be the work of illusions, demons or "satans".

Again it comes to personal choice. But if you choose to not believe, there is still something else to believe in, is there not? That is all.

>>36651252
IKR. So tragic. would be cool though.

>>36655873

>They don't. There are more than one lazarus in the bible.

They don't what? Who is they? You didn't address what I said. Why did Jesus bother to raise his friend Lazarus from the dead (he says that this is to show his power, etc) when the other parable tells us that there's no point in the rich Lazarus being able to return from the dead to turn people to faith?

>When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BC...

Holy fuck. How ignorant are you as a Christian??? The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is found in the Gospel of Luke, which was written in GREEK, not Hebrew. 'Sheol' is from the Old Testament. The word used in Luke, specifically in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is "Hades", the Greek mythological realm of the dead. I ask again - was Jesus a pagan??

>>36655742
>A human might is vastly more complex and amazing.
Says the human. You're letting your subjective pride take over.
No. We're not more worthy than a rock, a bacteria or a dog. We're not special or unique. The only thing you could say from an impartial scientific viewpoint is that our inteligence is rare. That's all. You're so antropocentric it hurts. It's like you came straight from the Renaissance. If I go down the physical equivalency road, it makes even less sense. We're just atoms spinning through the galaxy.
If horses had being the ones to develop inteligence, and later spirituality, they too would think that they were the chosen ones, special and superior to all otherliving creatures, and their deities would be horse shaped. I suppose it suits you right to have a religion that puts you on the spotlight, you're clearly comfortable in there. But it's illogical because, physically speaking, biologically speaking, behind the cold eyes of science, there's no hierarchy of value between living creatures. You can even sort groups out based on organic complexity, but even so we would be on par with other mamals.
Physically speaking it's even worse. We're dust from a star that collapsed 5 billion years ago, and we are absurdly insignificant in the vastness of the universe. A conglomerate of atoms no different from the superclusters and nebulas that soround our system. Fighting entropy, always.
That, or the hebrews were right and the goats weren't sacrificed in vain and god did impregnated his own mother to give birth to himself. You may choose what you think suits you. I'll choose what I think it's more reasonable.

>>36656001
The one in hell told you that it was pointless and the one about Jesus raising Lazarus is an actual demonstration of why it is pointless when even when the Pharisees saw him they still didn't believe.

>The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is found in the Gospel of Luke, which was written in GREEK
yeah, I know and the greek translation of Sheol was hades. Also, hades is just another name given to the resting place of the souls in the bible isn't to be confused to the greek mythological place as hades. It is also known as the grave as well.

>>36656053

First let me say that you don't know the specifics of what I believe, as I haven't stated anything on that, and I feel that you're arguing against a vision of what I believe.

>No. We're not more worthy than a rock, a bacteria or a dog. We're not special or unique. The only thing you could say from an impartial scientific viewpoint is that our inteligence is rare. That's all.

A rock cannot walk. A rock cannot breathe or see. A rock isn't conscious. A rock isn't alive. A dog is, but a dog isn't capable of the level of awareness - certainly not the level of thought that humans are capable of...and not all humans are equally as intelligent.

>We're just atoms spinning through the galaxy.

No, "you" are not "just atoms", you're MADE UP of atoms or matter or whatever you want to call it, but "you" as a structure are significantly more complex than even something vastly larger than you like Ayres Rock.

>If horses had being the ones to develop inteligence, and later spirituality, they too would think that they were the chosen ones...

I'm not claiming that humans AS a SPECIES are somehow inherently more significant, I'm saying that the fact that humans are more intelligent makes us more intelligent than horses...and intelligence, self-awareness and so on are more complex things than say the mere momentary consciousness of the horse.

Human beings are the only animals as far as we know who are really even capable of having a conscious thought about the possibility of God.

>>36656102

>Jesus raising Lazarus is an actual demonstration of why it is pointless...

John 11:4

Here is Jesus saying that his friend Lazarus would be used to show the power of God. So it's not a demonstration of the pointlessness. The fact that the Pharisees didn't believe is supposed to show that the Pharisees themselves were being juddged by their lack of faith in this miracle - which is supposed to testify to the reality of Jesus' power. The two stories contradict one another. If this man, who has literally the exact same name as the man in the parable of the rich man and lazarus, which should bring it immediately into mind - was raised to show God's power, then why couldn't the rich man in the parable get his wish and be raised from the dead to to turn people to faith? They contradict.

>yeah, I know and the greek translation of Sheol was hades...

In the Old Testament, 'Sheol' is the realm of the dead, or simply 'death', it doesn't resemble what you call "Hell". Hades was a greek concept that referred to the realm of the dead. If Jesus went around talking about 'Hades', it would be apparently to anyone that he was making use of this mythological realm to make a point, NOT that he was referring to some place called "Hell".

>>36656223
You're assigning value in such subjective way.
The rock doesn't think. But going full ontological, the rock exists just like you. There will come the day where only the dust of your bones will be left, and the rock will continue here, existing. In its apparent apathy and insignificance, that rock will outlive everything you are and everything you will ever build. Poetic, isn't it?
Homosapiens have been here between a hundred and two hundred thousand years. I'd say we have more 300 thousands years on the planet until the environmental changes will make it inhabitable for us. We've existed for a short breath of this earth, and just a glimpse of the age of the universe. I don't know how else I can put it. You're almost predestined to believe we're special and our own extraordinary existence is evidence of a god.
I, on the other hand, am prone to think exactly the opposite: that we are vastly insignificant and unimportant and that is evidence of the absence of a deity (at Least a antropocentric deity).
Anything that comes after this will be merely the side we choose to believe, or disbelieve.

>>36656463
>Here is Jesus saying that his friend Lazarus would be used to show the power of God.
One thing you have to understand about Christian doctrine is that we believe that faith is a gift from God and done by God alone. The rich man who was sent to hell only wanted to appear to his children because he thought if he came to them in a dream, he was not granted because he thought by seeing him they will believe but this isn't the case, and one believe through the power of God giving you the gift of faith. Also, the rich man was in hell and could not come out, once you are in the grave that is it for you. The poor man who was in the upper part of the grave at the bosom of Abraham was in a different condition. From what we know about the Bible the people who are in the resting place of sheol can see what is happening in the real world whereas those in the lower part cannot.

>If Jesus went around talking about 'Hades', it would be apparently to anyone that he was making use of this mythological realm to make a point,
yes, but you're missing one important fact, Jesus did not speak greek he spoke Aramaic, which is an old and mostly dead form of Hebrew. He was most likely using the Hebrew derivative of the word hades which was sheol.

>>36656581

>You're assigning value in such subjective way.

Literally anything I do would be considered 'subjective' according to this definition, because every mental act of mine takes place in my head. What I'm saying about the difference in complexity is not 'subjective' though according to how we typically use that word. It's measurable. A rock cannot think, it cannot move (of its own volition), etc. This is measurable, this is 'objective'.

>There will come the day where only the dust of your bones will be left...

I'm not denying any of this, my life is very fleeting. Everything you're saying here is said in the Bible. Have you read Ecclesiastes? It's all about this, "man that is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble, he passes like a shadow and does not stay, he comes forth like a flower, and withers".

That doesn't change the fact that I exist and that I'm conscious, and that rocks are not.

>You're almost predestined to believe we're special and our own extraordinary existence is evidence of a god...

But I don't limit 'evidence of God' to human complexity. The fact that rocks exist is also evidence of God.

>I, on the other hand, am prone to think exactly the opposite: that we are vastly insignificant and unimportant and that is evidence of the absence of a deity (at Least a antropocentric deity).

But is it a good idea to simply accept being "prone" to a certain type of thinking? Why not actually think about it? My life is tiny, it's going to be over very very soon, and the universe as a whole is massive in comparison to me. This doesn't mean I have NO significance, and it doesn't change the fact that as far as you can attribute significance to anything... I am more significant than rocks floating around passively in space. They exist to create me.

>>36656693

>One thing you have to understand about Christian doctrine...

You are not an authority on 'Christian' doctrine, and no such 'unified' doctrine ever existed.

>The rich man who was sent...wanted to appear to his children because he thought if he came to them in a dream...

You claim to be an authority on 'Christian doctrine', but then you make mistake after mistake even in your basic understanding of what your texts say. The rich man wanted Lazarus to appear to his FAMILY, his BROTHERS (not children), and he wanted Lazarus to appear physically raised from the dead, "but if someone goes from the dead to them, they will repent". Now this parable occurs in the Gospel of John and contradicts directly what happens in Luke, where Jesus raises a man called Lazarus(!!!!!) to prove his power, to bring people to repentance. Now the contradiction is there, and it's obvious once you're aware of it.

>Jesus did not speak greek he spoke Aramaic...

The text is written in Greek. It uses the word "Hades", which does not mean "Hell". "Hell" is an English word imposed upon the Greek word 'Hades' to line up with the 'doctrine of Hell'.

>He was most likely using the Hebrew derivative of the word hades which was sheol.

The Hebrew scriptures comes before the Greek, so why would Jesus use a Hebrew derivative of a Greek term? How is that even possible? Do you know what a derivative is?

Listen to me - think about how I've corrected you and how wrong you are. According to the very scriptures you quote, a person who causes other people to stumble in faith would be better off being thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck. What are you doing? You're acting irresponsibly and causing other people trouble. Hold your tongue.

>>36656742
>I am more significant than rocks floating around passively in space
You're not.
>The fact that rocks exist is also evidence of God.
It's not. It's evidence of the basaltic composition of the lithosphere, plus the intemperance of the rock plus erosive agents.
You weren't here when I first said it but I suppose the cycle will resume. It doesn't make any logical sense for s Superior deity, creator of all, capable of everything, to be antropocentric, to feel human emotions and to have human behaviour. It's painfully obvious that such deity as portrayed in the Bible is mostly obvious a character created by human minds, primitive desert dwellers hebrews, who permeated it with their culture, costumes, behaviours and beliefs.

Are vampires real?

I want to become one and live forever. They are of the blood of cain, the first vampire, apparently. How can I become one?

>>36656908
Sky will fall apart before a christian admits there's a contradiction in the Bible.
It's such silly proud, it proves how imature their faith is. I'm an atheist and that doesn't stop me from liking some Bible passages as I've quoted up there, specially one specific sermon of Jesus. It doesn't make me less of an atheist. T doesn't make my "disbelief" weak. The same applies to your stupid doctrine. Admitting one contradiction in a book written and assembled by hundreds of men don't make a heretic who will go to hell. It just means you're minimally reasonable.

>>36656922

>You're not.

But that's just an empty assertion, and you've quit attempting to give reasons for it. You interestingly cut off the part where I said "so far as you can attribute significance to anything...", if anything has significance in this universe - doesn't consciousness and thought have greater significance than unconscious objects?

>It's not. It's evidence of the basaltic composition of the lithosphere, plus the intemperance of the rock plus erosive agents.

You're just listing a description of the rock, it's composition and function. The rocks existence is significant.

>It doesn't make any logical sense for s Superior deity, creator of all, capable of everything, to be antropocentric, to feel human emotions and to have human behaviour...

Ok, first of all, I would argue that describing God in human terms makes sense. Human beings have intent and awareness, we are intelligent - so emotions we have, the way we think - these are our way of knowing the world and understanding others. If some rabid muslim or Christian tries to physically assault you for saying something they don't like, you'd say that they're "angry" or "hysterical", you'd try to build a mental model of why they're behaving as they are - in terms that you understand through experience of your own emotions. This is what language is about. By definition the ultimate source of creation MUST at least CONTAIN these experiences and emotions that we have, and we must to some degree be a reflection or 'shadow' of this source of creation. The Greeks and Romans used human drama to explain natural phenomenon, right? Also a sort of 'spiritual' world, now however far from the mark they may have been - it does seem understandable.

Secondly, if God exists then God must be aware of every thought and emotion I have. When I'm aware of say an animal in fear - that empathy or compassion CAN move me, I certainly take it into account. So is it a huge leap?

>>36657037

Thanks for responding to me, but interestingly I am a Christian who recognises the contradictions in the Bible.

>>36656908
>You are not an authority on 'Christian' doctrine, and no such 'unified' doctrine ever existed.
There does not have to be a unified doctrine you to believe in one. During the time of paul, there were Judaizers who thought that one was saved by doing works of the OT laws and they were false. Yet still, paul told people about the true doctrine that one was saved by faith alone apart from works of the law.

>You claim to be an authority on 'Christian doctrine',
I do not.

>Now this parable occurs in the Gospel of John and contradicts directly what happens in Luke
Yep, you haven't listened. there were multiple Lazaruses just like there are multiple marys in the bible. It's not a contradiction it's talking about two people and also you didn't even note the fact that one was a parable. The Lazarus you're thinking of is Lazarus of Bethany, also known as Lazarus of the Four Days.

>The text is written in Greek. It uses the word "Hades", which does not mean "Hell". "Hell" is an English word imposed upon the Greek word 'Hades' to line up with the 'doctrine of Hell'.
Ok, but you're forgetting that Jesus did not speak greek but rather spoke Aramaic and so that was most likely a greek translation of what Jesus said. I very much know that hades is not actual hell but rather the grave, as I stated before but it is not to be confused with the greek mythological place know as hades since they're described absolutely differently.

>Listen to me
I listened and it honestly just sounds desperate and I don't know if I would ever encounter such a foolish and desperate argument anywhere else besides 4chan. But I'll still wait and chat with you.

Explain how Jesus died for our sins and how that saves all of us. Or do you not believe in that?

>>36657346
>Or do you not believe in that?
I do, if you read my op you would know that. But why wouldn't I?

Ok, this is how it works. Humans are in a state of sin and need to be saved from it but the thing is the wages of sin is death. romans 6:23. So the only way to pay for you sins is to go hell forever. Now christ comes in and takes on the sin of all those who will believe in him and dies, in order to complete the wages of sin is death part, and in exchange, we get his perfect godly record of goodness. So, it becomes like when he did good works now that's ours when he died on the cross, we died on the cross and so now we rest in peace in christ that our sins are forgiven and we have christ perfect record of law keeping since no one in history was good enough to complete it themselves.

>tfw no pure christian gf

feels bad man

>>36657463
So Jesus is in hell forever right now?

And so we can do anything because our bill is already taken care of?

>>36657620
>So Jesus is in hell forever right now?
Nah, he was raised on the 3rd day.

>And so we can do anything because our bill is already taken care of?
Theoretically, actually read this. >>36654717

>>36657463
So you agree with death to ppl who commit sin? Shari'a law is righteous? Should we all be doing it? That's what the bible says right?

>>36657659
But you said the price is death and hell forever. But he got out in three days? So he didn't pay the full price?

I like christian culture and western culture etc, I appreciate the christian worldview and admit we owe a lot to it

But I have a fundamental problem with the idea of Christ dying for my sins.

Why the fuck does some guy 2000 years ago dying on a cross forgive MY sins. I find this morally evil. they are MY sins, I should atone for them and its impossible for someone else to "forgive" my sins.

It works out either two ways, either God made these rules up arbitrarily and when I sin and ask for forgiveness hes like "nah its good senpai my son died for that shit"
OR
Hes got a higher moral ruleset to follow and therefore NO ONE can forgive transgressions except through your own actions

People should be responsible for their own sins and actually have to WORK to get their conscious feeling better.

>>36657245

>There does not have to be a unified doctrine...
>I do not [claim to be an authority].

YOU used the expression "Christian doctrine". YOU said "One thing you have to understand about Christian doctrine..." which implies that you think you have the authority to teach, AND it implies the idea of some sort of general or universal "Christian" "doctrine", which doesn't exist.

>there were multiple Lazaruses...

Are you pretending to correct me? I've already clearly made a distinction between the two, all I said is that they have the exact same name, which is important because the segments contradict so starkly on a point where in both cases the same name is used. Let me re-state the contradiction:
>Gospel of John: Jesus tells this 'parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus', where the 'moral' of the parable is that sending a man named Lazarus back from the dead is pointless to turn people to repentance.
>Gospel of Luke: Jesus raises a man named Lazarus from the dead, specifically saying that this is about testifying to his power and turning people to repentance.
They contradict one another, and anyone examining the text critically might wonder about this, especially considering the same name is used - is it possible that the authors of John were deliberately trying to contradict or show a contrary teaching on this issue? Or vice versa?

>Ok, but you're forgetting...

I'm not forgetting. You said that the Rich man in the parable of 'the rich man and Lazarus' was in "hell", but the actual text uses the word Hades. Whether a real person named Jesus actually used the word Hades or Sheol - he didn't use the word "hell", and this is significant in understanding the meaning of the passage. Hell doctrinists love to use the word Hell because it fits with their interpretation. If the word Hades is left intact - the parable is more clearly about 'judgement' for moral acts in general.

>>36657668
Yeah, but the problem is we've all sinned and so if you did kill someone they should also be killed since they're also sinners and so should the person who kills them and so on. But we aren't commanded to do this we are to forgive others as Christ forgave us.

Only he without sin can cast the first stone.

So are Muslims and Jews bad or good?

Won't they just be forgiven either way?

I have tons of questions can we talk on a thing besides this?

>>36657728
But the bible, the word of god, tells us to punish ppl with death. Should we go against gods word?

>>36657757
>So are Muslims and Jews bad or good?
Bad, they don't accept christ as their lord and saviour.

>Won't they just be forgiven either way?
NO, you have to believe in the true Jesus to be saved not your own version. They don't even believe that he died on the cross but was rather rescued.

>I have tons of questions can we talk on a thing besides this?
Sure, ask away.

>>36657805
Yeah, but the NT gives us more information on the meaning of this and shows us that we all deserve death and so should be loving and forgiving to others like god was to us. When Adam and eve ate the apple they should have been sent to hell immediately but out of god's love, he gave them an opportunity to live and return back to god instead of killing them.

>>36657877
God only did that because he didn't want to admit (and still doesn't want to) that he made a mistake.

His son died because of it. What more does he have to lose?

>>36657659
Disgusting really. And why I think protestantism is heresy. Faith alone means even the most evil can go to heaven. I believe you need to be a good person as well. That doesn't mean you don't sin, because that's impossible. But that you try your best not to sin and try to be helpful to others. Catholicism is the one true church.

>>36650355
the belief of faith alone is not in the bible

The price of sin is death and you can't just replace your death with another. Do you know how silly you sound? This is what ppl who did human sacrifices thought, but it doesn't work that way.

>>36657727
>you have the authority to teach
I do. As a follower of Christ, I have been commanded to learn and teach the message taught in scripture.

> it implies the idea of some sort of general or universal "Christian" "doctrine", which doesn't exist.
There doesn't have to be one. Same as in Pauls time when he was literally teaching Christian doctrine even though there were competing doctrines.

>he segments contradict so starkly
They do not since one who was sent to the lower parts of sheol and cannot return, and one might conclude that Lazarus in the Gospel of John did not, in fact, go to the lower parts of hell and that was why he was able to return from the dead. This also is different from the stories of Hades in Greek myth since Hercules was able to escape this place as well as another Greek myth character, something that cannot happen in the biblical view of Hades.

>I'm not forgetting. You said that the Rich man in the parable of 'the rich man and Lazarus' was in "hell", but the actual text uses the word Hades.
Fair enough, Hades then but don't confuse it with the Greek mythological place called Hades. Hades is literally just a translation of Sheol in Hebrew and does not mean the same thing.

>>36658114
It's also a one way ticket to hell.

>>36657720
see >>36654717 (You)

>>36658066
? It's his own book and so he can define words the way he wishes. The OT has many hidden teachings which are only made more explicit in the NT.

>>36658088
Did you read what I wrote? Also, you're on 4chan! If I were you I'd be scared that I do not have peace with god and having your salvation so uncertain. Luckily I can put my full trust I christ that he died for my sins and I can rest knowing where my soul will go.

>>36658114
>>36658141
see this
>For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:28

>>36658173
Why are they hidden??
Who are they hidden from?

>>36658120
>The price of sin is death and you can't just replace your death with another.
Yes it can. Think of it has god taking my place and paying for the punishment that I had to pay for.

>Do you know how silly you sound?
It's not silly see>>36657463

lmao at all the heresy in this thread

>>36658302
Tell me why is the punishment for sin, death?

>>36658301
Not so much hidden but veiled. In the parable of the parable of the sower, Jesus talks about seeds growing in a garden. the disciples do not know what this means and so and it is only until after when Jesus tells the 12 explicitly what the parable means and they undertsand. I believe that is what the NT is like a clear teaching of the OT and a revealing of what is hidden.

>>36658302
But he didn't take the punishment. He is still alive.

And if only dead people can go to heaven how is Jesus there?

And if alive ppl can go there why do we have to die to go there?

And if the punishment for sin is s death but we have faith and our sins are paid for then why do we still die?

>>36658360
Protestantism is not heresy gosh darn it!

>>36658370
Becuase nothing unclean can enter into heaven. Only a spotless perfectly good being can enter heaven.

>>36658424
You mean they were vague so ppl didn't understand them?

>>36658448
So how did the devil visit god there?

>>36658448
Yes, yes it is. It was created by a heretic named Martin Luther. Anglicanism, the other main form of protestantism was created so a hedonistic king could divorce his wife. Protestantism is a modern heresy and has no basis in past teachings. So unless you think Jesus was WRONG and that Luther was right, you have no reason to be a protestant. Oh yeah, it's because you're too lazy to try to be a good person. Out of fear you clutch onto the sola fide doctrine.

>>36655546

What a bunch of bullshit.

Believing in God didn't suddenly make life not miserable. Not believing in him hasn't, either. Since he apparently put me here to be completely miserable and in constant pain, if he exists, I hope I get a chance to sock him in the nose before he tosses me in the lake of fire or whatever.

>>36658438
>But he didn't take the punishment. He is still alive.
That's because he was resurrected since death cannot hold it's grip on the son of god.

>And if only dead people can go to heaven how is Jesus there?
Says who? On the day of judgement, all will be resurrected and will have to account for their sins. The angels never died and are in heaven.

>And if alive ppl can go there why do we have to die to go there?
Death marks the end of the time we are left on earth. It is the end of our time that we were given and so must be held accountable for what we have done.

>And if the punishment for sin is s death but we have faith and our sins are paid for then why do we still die?
In the biblical lexicon, death means eternal separation from god and not literal dying. Also, one might want to bear in mind that hell in the bible is known as second death.

Newbie questions:
When I go and confess my sins, should I go into detail or just say what I did (such as "blasphemy", "adultery", etc.)?

It's been about nine years since I last confessed, what if I remember a sin I forgot to mention last time? Do I say it this time around?

>>36658492
Well, to a person God hasn't revealed it to yes, but if God has revealed it to you, then you will most likely know what it means. The parable of the sower could have been easily understandable if you compare and confer it with other biblical passages but not all could do this since they didn't have God in them telling them things that might not have have been understandable.

>>36658541
he wasn't in heaven but was rather summoned by god.

>>36658611
>you're too lazy to try to be a good person.
I do god works due to my love of god not obligations like you Catholics.

>>36658661
I was just trying to say that your emotions are not unique to you and even bible prophets went through what you went through.

>>36658448
So if Jesus took all our sins he must be the filthiest. How did he get in? And the angels are not humans they don't count.

>>36658733
I'm not a catholic and so would recommend that you instead confess to god, believe in him and you will be saved. for extra info see>>36654717

>>36658680
But he wasn't a god anymore. He was a mortal.
He have up his divinity for us no?
He seems to have skipped out on the bill he said he was going to pay for us.
And who is he paying this price to!

>>36658835
>So if Jesus took all our sins he must be the filthiest.
During his three days when he was in the belly of the earth, he took our sins to hell and was resurrected sinless leaving all the sins in hades.

>>36658880
>But he wasn't a god anymore. He was a mortal. He have up his divinity for us no?
NO, he was still God but also took on a human nature.

>And who is he paying this price to!
Christ already paid the price, and it was a once and for all final sacrifice that is still in effect till today.

>>36658885
Uhhh I'm dumb. Please explain that better and in more detail. Because it makes no sense.

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Who else here /orthodox/?
>tfw clothes smell like incense after liturgy
Feels_good_man.wav

>>36658920
Paid the price to who??

>>36658924
When he took on our sin he became sin and so was in Hades for three days and while down there left all of our sins down there, but due to the fact that h is God and is too powerful to be put to death he resurrected and won over death but did so while staying sinless.

>>36658954
The price needed to be perfect to enter heaven since nothing unclean can enter heaven.

Athiest autist here.
Dear ChristAnon, why do you believe in God? Like, what made you believe in God? I'm just asking.

>>36658885
If he took everyones sins future past and present then how is anyone, having faith or not, going to hell if he already paid?

>>36658960
Left our sins down there? Please elaborate.

>>36658984
I was brought up believing in god but then decided to think about it myself when I turned 12 and have stayed ever since.

>>36658994
He only died for the sins of who will believe in him.

>>36658978
So angels are perfect? How did Satan and 1/3 fall then?
How was there war in this perfect world where everyone is perfect?

>>36659046
Can you elaborate on the time when you thought for yourself when you were 12? I'd really like to know you logic behind it.

>>36658252
yes we are justified by faith, but not by faith alone.

>>36659046
So not for everyone?? Jesus wasn't as altruistic as I thought.

>>36659078
Nah, I just became more conscious of the world around me and just kinda always assumed god existed. The thought of god not existing has always seemed strange to me, still does. Like I can't even comprehend it and looking into some philosophical arguments has only solidified that belief.

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>>36659133
So you're not telling me your logic behind your belief in God? And you're telling me that it's always been strange no matter what? AND you're using philosophical arguments without exactly citing them?

Clearly, your parent's indoctrination is still at least partially clouding your mind.

>>36659043
Think of it this way imagine a courtroom scene in which we are on trial for our sins and God is the judge Our sins against God are capital crimes God Himself is our judge, and according to divine law our crimes deserve the death penalty Death in a spiritual sense means eternal separation from God in unending torment Thats a very serious judgment

By shedding His blood on the cross Jesus took the punishment we deserve and offered us His righteousness When we trust Christ for our salvation essentially we are making a trade By faith we trade our sin and its accompanying death penalty for His righteousness and life

>>36658777

Of course they aren't unique. Look where we are. Most people here should have plenty of reason to hate whatever created them.

I wouldn't want to go to heaven anyways. Seeing how God apparently arbitrarily favors some people over others, it's likely full of Chads and Stacies who had a fun life, so of course it's easy for them to believe in a loving and just god.

>>36651308

>History, prophecy and the message of the Bible itself.

Elaborate. On its own, that answer really doesn't tell us much.

>>36659076
?Yes, angels are perfect even Satan/Lucifer as perfect, but since he rebelled against God, he lost his perfection and so was damned to hell forever.

>>36659097
The verse says apart from works.

>>36659104
Of course. What di you think God was like. He only saves those who are looking to be saved.

>>36659192
>you're using philosophical arguments without exactly citing them?
Oh, you wanted an argument or something? I thought you were just wondering I would have written them down if you asked and I actually was thinking you're a cool guy but yeah you're not.

>Clearly, your parent's indoctrination is still at least partially clouding your mind.
Dude let me tell you something my parents don't give a crap about what I believe. they're not even Christians and are kinda pissed at that but they're still tolerant. I don't think they'll mind if I was an atheist.

>>36659317

>Yes, angels are perfect even Satan/Lucifer as perfect, but since he rebelled against God, he lost his perfection and so was damned to hell forever.

The Jews say that Satan never rebelled against God and is working for him, even to this day.

>>36659210
But Jesus only died in the mortal sense. The real cost would be for him to be away from god forever. Since that's not gonna happen he can't pay the price.

I guess there is a rock god himself can't pick up.

>>36659317
If he and them were so perfect they wouldn't have rebelled in the first place.

>>36659317
Note that I kinda don't want religious indoctrination in this board, I came here for the autism so I'm peeved

And also you say you're parents aren't even Christians, though you were raised Christian by your parents????? HOW?????

>>36659379
Isn't this guy just a troll?

>>36659405
Sort of, it's complicated m8

In OT god is all smitey and vengeful and jealous.

Why such a bipolar change in NT? Now he is peace and love?

>>36659317
apart form the works refers to circumcision and such old laws. I was asking if it we were justified by faith alone, you have not provided me with an example. The letter of St. James states that without good works, faith alone is dead.

>>36659477
I have time, please explain.

>>36659280
Having good looks doesn't make you a good Christian. Anyone who lives the stereotypical lifestyle of Chad and Stacy, having lots of promiscuous sex and abusing drugs is not saved. Meanwhile monks and nuns who've never had sex and live pure devoted lives make it to Heaven. So basically if you believe in Christ you believe that people will be judged on their deeds after they die, and that being good looking or powerful or rich won't help you in the end. If you're an atheist you believe that what happens in this life is all there is, and someone who is lucky and selfish in this life will never be punished.

>>36659855
He's saying that chads live good lives so its easier to praise god. They have a good life.

Robots are ugly and treated bad so it taints their souls so its hard to worship god.

There's a story in the bible le about this I believe. But in that god gave him a good life at first then took it away. Robots lives were bad from the start.

>>36659979
Plenty of people have shit lives all the way through and find comfort in a God who promises a happy afterlife to the faithful believer. Plenty of other people have easy lives and don't want to believe in a God who might judge them. For most of history and in most of the world Christianity has thrived under suffering and persecution. In fact since Western countries have become rich and decadent Christianity has declined in those countries. So basically I would completely disagree that leading an easy life makes it easier to be a Christian, or that leading a hard life makes it hard to be one. Robots are a special case, in that what makes their life shit (autism) also makes it hard for them to believe in God.