Well, robots, what are your thoughts on libertarianism?

>>36646104
Most "libertarians" are just spoiled white kids and the kind of people who post about how the minimum wage shouldn't be $15 and poor people should just get better jobs are the guys who dropped out of college, are unemployed and live with their parents in their 20s.

>>36646104
>Well, robots, what are your thoughts on libertarianism?
I think left libertarianism is pretty rational, and something which could work in our current system of government.

A system in which individual freedom is maximized, but not at the expense of equality - you can't truly be called free if you work 12 hours a day to survive.

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when I see that picture i only think of what christ said

I like it because I hate society and I do not want to help normies with my tax dollars.

>>36646104
Assume a society where everyone behaves the way you want them to.

I'm fine with it save for the manipulations of globalists and various other conspiracies preventing it from being achieved

>>36646104
Practically, it couldn't work with the retards of today. Inb4 "survival of the fittest" but even the fittest wouldn't do super well because of all the idiots messing them up.

Morally and on principle, I believe there should be literallly zero government.

>>36646269
>Judging a political ideology by internet comments

Nigga do some reading on the topic. I'm poor as hell and still think it would benefit me.

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I personally like roads

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>>36646857
This is always ignored with libertarians. Oh but roads are built by private companies! No shit but who's going to pay for them?

>>36646957
They unironically think all roads should be toll roads. Ya know, because Florida is a place everyone just LOOOVES for its toll roads.

I'm not right on politics but libertarianism is probably the best right ideology. Anarcho-capitalism is best anarchism but I'm not an anarchist either.

>>36646982
>tfw live in FL and want to leave
>gas is going to cost hundreds of dollars to escape in hobo-van
Thanks for reminding me.

>>36646957
Businesses would communally pay for the maintenance of roads that lead to them if they were allowed to.

>>36647133
At least you have a working vehicle. Where are you looking to move to? Feel the same about Ohio, just less toll roads.

it's great if you love half baked thought experiments

>>36647203
The problem with libertarianism is that there are ample refutations of its claims in real life which libertarian morons always ignore. And that's before you even bring up the 1880s - a time when almost everything these shills and morons want was in full swing, and it was hell on Earth.

They tend to either be republicans who want to smoke weed, alt right lite but replace Jews with the federal reserve, ancaps, or randians. None of those are appealing to me.

>>36646104
Pure anarchy is the only true way
Group entities of any form are evil

>>36647234
Sociopaths never have a right to use the word "evil".

>>36647171
Yeah and nothing else would be paved.

>>36647248
The elite class are the real sociopaths. If you take advantage of anyone during anarchy, it's no longer anarchy, you just became the king, if you'd understand human nature. You cannot just be a random monster, you friends, a group, that is better than everyone else, and governs them.

>>36647290
>you cannot just be alone when attacking, a group forms*
I fugged my phrasing.

>>36647290
>The elites aren't libertarians
Moron.

>>36647315
I didn't say they were. I implied that anarchy has no elites.

Also not the first guy that said anarchy is the way to go, because with human nature it wouldn't last. Communism is one step above, and it shouldn't go any higher than that, is what I've to say.

>>36647335
weren't*
I just woke up and am going to eat now I guess, because of typos.

>>36646104
Its a meme ideology

>>36646104
for rich white kids who majored in business or people who think they are really smart
capitalism is bad

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>>36646857
shaking my head at you family

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>>36646104
They've been infiltrated by lefty cunts. Anarcho-Capitalism is the only way.

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>>36646957
Groups of people who would like a road built would pay for them, dumbass. That's like who's going to pay for a refrigerator, the answer is the fucking person buying the damn product, nerd.

>>36646104
Uncucked capitalism gets my little dick so hard
Jesus I love buying and selling drugs
Unregulated trade with unregulated and free communication(internet) is the fucking future and I fucking hope more cucks realize how bad regulation is and stop giving them power so i can buy and sell more than just usual black market shit.

>>36646366
Are those puny twigs even hurting snek?

At my core I'm an anarcho-capitalist, but I do disagree with some common libertarian stances. A government is necessary in order to protect against external threats and to have laws in place to protect against monopolies. Also some form of taxation is needed for services like the military, police, fire departments, roads, etc. Besides that everything else should be decided by the free market. I also support the physical removal of communists and anyone else who would pose a threat to this system. In order for a society like this to be stable we wouldn't be able to be democracy since the masses would inevitably demand handouts and the system would just collapse.

>>36647954
>There is only one law: no monopolies

hmm, yeah I guess it's a great system if you have to subvert it's natural conclusions

>>36646366
How the fuck do those birds not break their legs constantly

>>36647954
I'm not a libertarian, but at some higher level, I think we can all agree that taxation IS theft.

Even if we all agree that its necessary, we can't get around the fact that, well, it's not voluntary. If there were three people in a room and the other two voted to use your laptop would that make it right?

I think there should be an option for those who don't want to pay taxes. There should be some out. I think there should be some "no man's land" in which those who don't want to pay taxes are allowed to live. A libertarian paradise.

This area wouldn't receive government assistance, however it would still be subject to environmental regulation, and children would not be allowed to be raised there.

That seems fair to me, what do you guys think?

>>36647234
>Implying that humanity hasn't survived due to our ability form and work in groups.


0/10 try harder

>>36648080
and where would this no man's land be? like inside of a certain country, or just on an island somewhere

eventually the people who are on that island or section of whatever country are probably going to develop some sort of government that inevitably uses taxation as a form of funding necessary projects such as roads and shit

>>36647790
libertarianism was never a right wing ideology to begin with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarians#History

it was basically a form of anarchism.

>>36648253
they'd just call taxes fees and dub their newly invented wheel freedom-something

>>36647790
are you actually retarded
ancap and libertarian is the same fucking thing

>>36648080
>How the fuck do those birds not break their legs constantly
According to all known laws of avians, there is no way a bird should be able to land. Its wings are too skinny to get its fat little body to the ground.
The bird, of course, lands anyway, because birds don't care what humans think is impossible.

>>36648080
You're right taxation is theft, but it is necessary if you're living near others. If you were to opt out of taxes then you wouldn't receive the benefits of police, fire protection, etc. This is fine if you're alone, but what if your neighbor's house catches on fire and speads to your house? It has to be put out otherwise it could spread to someone elses. While I like the idea of a "no man's land", it would never survive because there would be anarchy with people endangering other's lives.

It baffles me how anyone can think (radical) libertarianism is feasible. It is a gedankenexperiment at best, and good for memes only.

Anyone who has had to deal with a group of people knows it.

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Used to be one

>>36648382
there are lots of things about the current system which are not feasible but with enough bandaids and propaganda to make it palatable to the masses, it survives. there is no perfect system but the reason people believe libertarianism is not feasible, is only because they are so used to a particular way of life. people are who they are, partially because of the system they were raised in and you have only dealt with groups of people raised in this system so you can't really judge how things would evolve if there were radical changes.

>>36648253

I meant from a national perspective, not an international one, obviously any international no man's land type setup would develop a government pretty quickly.
But a national one which explicitly doesn't have government interference could potentially exist

The people who would opt to live in such a place are not gonna be the kinds of people who interact well with others

It's going to be a place where many people live in their own log cabins they built themselves, cooking their own food

Where? Well this is obviously a thought experiment that couldn't exist, the legal issues would be never ending, especially from a human rights perspective for many of the same reasons the guy below mentioned - what if some household there did have a child and abused it, etc

But... I mean even in the current world without any change of laws it COULD exist, I suppose. Someone could go to Alaska or south Dakota or something and just live without substantial interaction with others. No taxes there.

I suppose that out already kinda does exist then... people could choose to semi-legally live off the grid

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>>36646104
the snake flag is pretty cool i guess

>>36648279
you gather enough of the type of people who really want to live in freedom, independently, on an island and soon enough, nobody is going to be able to extract "fees" from them, without some major hassle. i imagine the experience of any interlopers would be similar to the visitors on the island in jurassic park, after the electricity went out.

there's no stopping freedom once they're free, bud.

>>36646857
That's anarcho-capitalism, not libertarianism. Libertarians still believe in having a government, albeit a limited one.

>>36646104
the word liberal got destroyed just like feminism got destroyed.

what will the jews move onto next?

you guys notice that this is divide and conquer tier strategy right?

>>36648444
The point is that those in power make the current system work; true, common people get fucked in the ass in the process, but not even that much.

How can anything survive without some authority somewhere? How doesn't it degenerate in some form of tyranny/oligarchy in the bat of an eye?

Is not only the way of life we are used to, you need to consider also personal inclination. Most people need to be lead by someone. At some level, doesn't matter how small, you will find someone in charge.

I'm not exactly an expert on libertarianism, I don't know the literature behind it, but I know that whatever you do, some form of government will emerge nevertheless, as has always been the case in human history.

>>36648686
>the jews
>divide and conquer tier strategy
do you also hate feminists, gays, trannies, any race or other group, in particular? if so, the plans of the "jews" are working well on you.

>>36648637
so roads toll or otherwise don't exist and people all helicopter around?
throwing money into a pool to get common goods and services is unavoidable

Libertarians are pretty chill. Ancaps, on the other hand, are the most intolerable people on the face of the planet and deserve torture.

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>>36646104
what a fucking meme

They're so insecure and simple-minded with their ideology that they had to include "liberty" in it. That's one step beyond flag-waving retards who say meaningless things like "I think freedom is good"

>>36648756
>implying
i personally don't give a shit you retard.

we all gonna die anyway, i wanted trump to win because i knew he was gonna start another war. all that shit with isis is pretty much just a bomb testing zone at this point.

>>36646104
It won't work.
Just like other utopian ideas.

>>36646104
It's like if someone made a political ideology based on a 2 year old's "mine" phase.

>>36648775
>Ancaps, on the other hand

What's the difference between them and libertarians

>>36648745
>those in power make the current system work;
those in power make the current system work...for themselves. any bone they happen to throw to the people should be recognized as a pacifying measure to maintain their authority.

> get fucked in the ass in the process, but not even that much.
thank god we only get fucked in the ass a little bit. just the tip, right?

>Most people need to be lead by someone.
have you ever considered that the system is what fosters this sense of helpless dependence in the first place? you call it a personal inclination but can you really be sure? maybe it is government and authority that turns people into the meek and directionless drones who require a leader in the first place. people who live in countries where they are more aware that their governments are corrupt and do not serve them tend to be more self-reliant and resourceful, out of necessity. people do what it takes to survive. maybe being simultaneously coddled and controlled by a government holds us back.

anyway, leaders are not necessarily a bad thing. there will always be a need to organize when people live together. the difference is whether the authority is concentrated among a small group, which inevitably interferes with liberty and grants them privileges that the masses do not have access to, or whether people have real autonomy by participating in the process of organization and creation and having ultimate control over their own lives instead of being forced to submit to the will of authority for their own "best interests."

>How doesn't it degenerate in some form of tyranny/oligarchy in the bat of an eye?
authority can exist with no negative moral implications, as long as it is non-coercive authority legitimized by the people. it doesn't degenerate into tyranny when the people are primed to recognize threats to their individual liberty and equipped, mentally and physically, to defend their rights for themselves instead of relying on authority to do that.

>>36649076
a government, obviously

>>36649144
Don't libs want to abolish the government?

>>36646982
Outside of the Orlando and Miami metros, there's virtually no toll roads on Florida. Toll bridges? Absolutely. But as someone who's lived in Florida all my life the only toll roads I've ever used regularly were Alligator Alley and Florida's Turnpike .

>>36649163
Until the day the actually get elected, just like almost everyone else who works an "outsider" angle.

>>36649163
specifics vary, but they generally want limited government, not abolishment of the government.

most of the information out there is based on memes these days and people don't even understand the ideologies that they criticize.

>>36646104
I disagree with it but not for any of the reasons that have been said.
All in all I'd consider myself a fusionist

>>36646104
its shit

we had the libertarian "ideal" for millions of years, and we've ended up in this shit

overtly empowering concepts of individual freedom into realms where it should not (e.g. business) destroys society

it absolves those that obtain power from their responsiblity to others

>>36649236
>limited government

how limited? ancaps also want that to some degree, they want a form government that isn't a state.

>>36646269
>raise minimum wage
>employers raise their prices for services to balance
>you can consume the same amount with you "bigger" paycheck
why are commies so fucking dumb?

>>36649537
what made us end up in this shit is increasing socialism. market stopped being free since countries existed.

>the amount of commies itt
holy shit lmao

>>36649604
>what is the purchasing power parity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

Why are retards like you so retarded?

>>36649776
X-DDDDDD

blox

>>36649601
>how limited? ancaps also want that to some degree, they want a form government that isn't a state.
it really depends on the type of libertarianism a person identifies with.

i guess the best way to define it is to say that there should be as little government as possible in order to preserve personal freedom with the understanding that a complete abolishment of government could endanger individual liberty as much as an overly governed state.

https://www.lp.org/issues/
this is what the official american libertarian party supports but this is really only one interpretation of libertarian ideals. there are diverse beliefs within libertarianism and many people choose to support the libertarian party even though they don't necessarily agree with everything being advocated by them, because they feel that a third party gaining traction will move things in the right direction.

>>36649776
This is fucking America we're talking about. There's no regulation to prevent greed and our culture encourages it.

>>36649117
>thank god we only get fucked in the ass a little bit. just the tip, right?
better than the whole cock up to the balls; find me a better alternative (currently available)

>people who live in countries where they are more aware that their governments are corrupt and do not serve them tend to be more self-reliant and resourceful
of course, if the alternative is starving people would try maybe growing some crops. In all other cases they try in turn to steal from the government as much as they can and rely to other violent methods.

>whether people have real autonomy by participating in the process of organization and creation
this could maybe work with groups of ten or twenty people. Anything more and you need to delegate, in fact creating a government, which will necessarily impose some conditions on the individuals.

>people are primed to recognize threats to their individual liberty and equipped, mentally and physically, to defend their rights for themselves
I can't imagine how that would work. How can everyone be equipped equally, not only physically (which is implausible enough), but mentally too? Equality can not exist.

You assume that everybody would be in total agreement with the libertarian doctrine; that's basically the same as assuming that there would be no criminals or evil people.

Maybe I lack imagination.

When I think about a libertarianism it comes to my mind the book "Foundation and Earth" by Asimov. There is this one planet, Solaria, which is home to only a thousand humans, living each one by himself, with armies of robot workers.
This is how I imagine a libertarian society: no government, everyone is free to do everything they want in their estate. Of course they had to agree to birth policies to keep the numbers low enough.
Is it a good world to live in? Perhaps, but it still works only with a millionth of the current population and a far more advanced technology than ours.

>>36649976
I don't see what that post has to do with the erroneous "everything costs more when minimum wage goes up"

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>>36647178
I'm a neet that doesn't even van yet.

>>36650913
Companies are blindly greedy enough in America to increase their costs to meet a new minimum wage. It's already happening in California, where the minimum wage is going up to $15.

>>36651151
>where the minimum wage is going up to $15

and the new costs are what...?

>>36651235
He's falling for propaganda anon.

>>36651235
XD

>>36652775
XD

blox

>>36647234
Pure anarchy will always result in group entities forming and taking power. It's not sustainable.

>>36646104
Idiots that think that liberty = freedom.

>>36646269
I am a middle eastern male who grew up poor, am a first generation american and literally watched my family work themselves into a middle class life. I've busted my ass to educate myself in stem.

I've been a libertarian my whole life. A lot of the other libertarians I know are immigrants.

I think that it suffers from the same thing that other ideologies suffer from. It could work in theory, but human behavior won't allow it

>>36649604
>Commies
>Wage labor

>>36648385
fucking disgustingu

>>36646104
It's dumb. Only super poor and super rich people believe in it.

>>36646857
>libertarianism
>I personally like roads
> ancap flag
>thinking libertarianism and anarcho capitalism are the same

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>>36646857
unoriginal strawman, not even libertarianism