The universe is deterministic, right?

>>36479817
Somewhat. Some events, such as radioactive decay, occur randomly.

Free will is still an illusion.

No, more precisely it is probabilistic.

Quantum mechanics is shown to be probabilistic, and it appears to be a fundamental property rather than a simple product of our ignorance.

>>36479817
Until you prove that inorganic matter can magically turn in to organic matter no
The universe is not deterministic

>>36479817
the truth is that we don't know

you could argue of it to be if you take every single probsbilty into account

>>36480296
That's a terrible way to phrase that.

>>36480383
I think what OP is referring to is that every thing that moves needs to be moved by a mover, so the universe would stand still without movers moving movers. But quantum mechanics shows us that sub-atomic particles behave differently.

>>36479817
Here is my question to physical determinists: were you determined to believe in determinism because of random physical occurrences, or because your mind can reason freely? If the latter, then you have free will. If it's the former, why should I believe you?

>>36480513
>>36480513
This is always the poorest argument against determinism. Free will as an illusion would imply that you believe you can reason. It makes no difference if free will exists,which is unlikely unless you define free in an obscure way, or if it is an illusion masking the processes internally and externally of the brain.

>>36479817
Not always, but mostly.

>>36480632
If my reason is free enough to come to a conclusion about what is true, then I can also act on what I believe is true.

If I am capable of rational thought, then I can act based on a reason of my own conception. That seems like a good definition of free will to me.

>>36479817
It is, but it's too complex for us to ever figure out so it may as well not be

>>36480296
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%B6hler_synthesis

>>36480808
You can only come to a conclusion on what you believe to be true.
If free will is an illusion then it would make perfect sense to believe you can reason.
You need to define what "I" is. What are you? Is your will free or bound by physical properties internally and externally of the brain?
If we agree that thought originates in the brain, and that all things moving need to be moved, then how is the brain free of these physical constraints?

Free will kinda exists. But it also kinda doesn't.

I imagine it like this

You can vibrate and move around in different ways but only in a very confined little circle

and the vibration of one circle is determined by other cirlces

so yes. it's very deterministic.