Moe ruined anime

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>>36302520
I presume like most if not all spectator driven forms of entertainment, anime drifted towards appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Consider the state of the average male in Japan: He goes to work, earns his day's wage, then returns home to indulge in his various activities. Whatever relations outside of his immediate family and inner circle of friends he does not pursue because he does not find it worth his time. Aside from the basic necessities to live, he invests his time and money into the pursuit of fantasies where he can be the hero of his own story. This includes the purchase of erotic mangas and hentai. The producers of this content begin putting more and more content out on the market in response to the increased demand. As a consequence, various producers and anime studios notice this change in what their consumers want and adapt their products accordingly. What helped hammer this was a desire from foreign markets.

Before this, the West also was growing more interested in Japanese anime and comics, albeit more casually as they had their own media to act as a bulwark against it. However with the increased popularity that the internet was gaining, various people who shared an interest in Japanese formed online communities where they could meet and discuss anime. The creator of this site was among those people. As with the Japanese male, there were many analogs within Western society who also subscribed to erotic mangas, hentai, etc. Over time, more and more people became interested with this material and again the studios responded to the increase in demand.

That is the most basic history of the recent development of animie I could muster

source: my ass so take it with a grain of salt

>>36302520

I dunno man, feels like I've heard this for years and years now. I've been thinking about looking up every season since somewhere in the 80's and make some sort of statistic of genre frequency. I'm watching Nadia now, which is fairly old, yet it still has elements of fanservice here and there.

>>36302520
Word.
All faggot boi shet

Who fucking cares, I just want cute things that make me feel good

>>36302520
Completely

It's why MSG is all that's left for me, and slowly some of those elements are cringing more and more

I don't even watch anime in general, it's gone to shit.

Gone are the days of Cowboy Bebop, Lupin, Outlaw Star, Tenchi, and Lain

Moe is a feeling you have towards a character. It has existed for as long as anime has. Actually, it has existed even longer than that.

Although Westerners keep complaining about "moe anime" and demand "mature" and "artistic" and "serious" anime, they never watch any of those anime despite them coming out like clockwork every season. They refuse to even admit they exist. They don't fit the narrative. The narrative is that "moe" ruined anime, and nothing can get in the way of that.

>The producers of this content begin putting more and more content out on the market in response to the increased demand. As a consequence, various producers and anime studios notice this change in what their consumers want and adapt their products accordingly.
Sexuality has been a part of manga and anime for a long time. It's normal. Even Osamu Tezuka made sexually explicit manga and anime.

>What helped hammer this was a desire from foreign markets.
If there's one thing Westerners hate, it's any kind of sexuality in anime. Which includes moe (it's implicitly sexual).

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>>36302520
You perceive anime to have changed because you used to not know any better.

>>36302520
yea because gundam wing definitely wasn't stupid at all

>>36304286
best fucking post i've seen all week ahahahahah

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>>36302520
I remember when anime was adults/scifi action, now it's cartoons for little girls and fruits.

Pic related the last newish anime that doesn't apologize for being old school and gritty with blue humour.

>>36302520
Moe is dope breh. If anything people grew up and realized how fucking gay shonen anime are.

>muh power of friendship
>muh training
>muh six million filler episodes
>muh collectible tie-in merchandise card games

>>36304372
Shoujo anime has existed since the 1960s, anime is more more adult-oriented now than it was in the past, and scifi anime is still made.

>>36304044
This. I like how the characters don't have a lot of problems. Most TV shows can be really stressful for some reason.

>>36304432
Also most moe series are seinen rather than shoujo, although shonenfags find this hard to understand.

>i remember when i was younger and anime seemed like it was for older cool people, now i'm old and anime seems like it's for stupid younger people

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>>36304432
Oh you mean 12 episodes while the fruits and moe blobs dominate the market hmm yeah ok.

Or you mean new series of old franchises, which are lucky to get an ova after the aforementioned 12 eps.

I actually meant new content in this context, not revisions and addon series.

And on the topic of shoujo, you can have an action series like hell girl and saiyuki be decent as they aren't moe.

Solution: Moe Highschool Fighters. Everyone wins. Autists who watch anime for the fap fuel and plot and action for people who want actual plot and action.

>>36304551
>Oh you mean 12 episodes while the fruits and moe blobs dominate the market hmm yeah ok.
Most shows run 12 episodes at a time these days.

What are fruits?

Moeblobs don't exist.

>I actually meant new content in this context, not revisions and addon series.
There is new content, you just don't want to watch it.

>And on the topic of shoujo, you can have an action series like hell girl and saiyuki be decent as they aren't moe.
Moe is subjective.

>>36302520
Because you have shit taste normalfriend.

>>36304581
Those already exist.

>>36304372
>>36304551
Adult orientated sci-fi was always the outlier, you just though that it wasn't because a disproportionate amount got brought over to and became popular in the west. Now with the rise of the internet and fansubs and streaming services you can see the full spectrum of anime and realise that a whole lot of it is cute because that's what Japan likes and has liked for decades.

>>36304286
some political stories didn't make sense but it was fun to watch

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>>36304607
Ok then name one show not based on a visual novel, mobile game, card game or mmo that competes with or is equal to: hajime no ippo, history's strongest disciple kenichi, 7 deadly sins or dimension w.

I mean this season, new material not yet seen in anime form and no continuing series.

>>36304748
First of all there's no reason why shows can't be based on those things (you are just trying to rule out as many show as possible), secondly this is a trick question because you can use whatever definition of "competes with or is equal to" that you want to, and thirdly the season just started.

>>36304748
Why are we not allowed to give examples of adaptations when all four of yours are adapted from manga? Why do we only get to pick examples from one quarter of a year when your examples are taken from a 30 year range?

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>>36304781
"The season just started, gimme some time to get evidence".

It's ok , you can come back in 2 months if it takes that long to answer.

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I love cute anime and also cool anime

But cute is better

>>36304820
Are you seriously claiming that the quality of an anime can be fully known based on the first 1-3 episodes? Kado, for example, is shaping up to be an interesting show so far, but it could go off the rails at some point.

>>36304748
>>36304807
Also fuck your stupid no sequels rule because Uchouten Kazoku season 2 is airing right now and it's going to be great. A hell of a lot better than Dimension W and Deadly Sins at least.

>>36304372
that looks gay af tbqh famfam-senpai

>>36304230
Well said. Thank you for posting this.

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>>36302520
>people liked anime for the martial arts and the mecha and violence
No they didn't you faggot, that was just the only anime your whitu pigu ass had, anime has always been about cute girls

>>36304807
Did I list manga as one of the four new influences ?

I thought it was common knowledge, most anime used to be based off a manga series.

>>36302520
I think E. Michael Jones' theory that sexual freedom is the most effective form of social control applies to moe.

In the 1970s the US suffered a severe economic downturn that significantly diminished the life expectations for future generations. At that time two things happeneed:
1) credit was expanded (in the form of credit cards becoming popular)
2) Pornography was widely pushed into the culture.
Both of these served to distract citizens from their diminished earnings and give them the illusion of "freedom"

This also happened in Germany in the mid-70s but for more political reasons

Cut to Japan in the late 80s. Economic bubble pops. Manga and anime start to gravitate to more and more pornographic scenarios.

Moe and debt are literally the basis of political control in modern Japan.

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>>36304906
cute 80s anime girls are my favorite

>>36304924
So if you don't have a problem with manga adaptations then why aren't adaptions from other mediums allowed?

>>36304748
>hajime no ippo
>history's strongest disciple kenichi
>7 deadly sins
>dimension w
Good job outing your shit taste fag

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>>36304995
80-90s designs really were the best

>>36304993
If you think the kind of anime that commonly gets labeled "moe" is about pornography, you are completely clueless about the topic.

"Fanservice" manga goes back to at least the late 1960s, and porn anime started being made as soon as home video became available. Anime and manga are also not controlled by the government, who didn't even start to really pay attention to them until the 2000s.

>>36305001
Manga is apparently inherently superior to all other possible mediums. I can understand mmos/card games/mobile games/etc being shut out, but VNs that get anime adaptions have an actual storyline. I'd imagine he's too normie to have touched a filthy VN.

He didn't even mention LNs, the real cancer destroying anime.

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>>36305040
>hajime no ippo
>shit taste
FUCKING SAY THAT AGAIN I FUCKING DARE YOU CUNT

>>36305092
>implying video game anime adaptions are ever good
they always have shit budget and gloss over most of the game. The point of a game is to be interactive so they don't translate well to non-interactive media anyway

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>>36305075
True.

youtube.com/watch?v=GEGzjlPk7sM

>>36304993
>freedom is control
>conservafags unironically doublethink THIS hard

>>36305092
Granblue Fantasy seems like a solid fantasy story so far, and it's based on a mobile game. Rage of Bahamut is apparently well-liked, also based on a mobile game. Kemono Friends was developed alongside a mobile game and was the top show of the last season, with people discussing its story and setting extensively. selector infected and the rest of the WIXOSS series is based on a card game.

Light novels are a meme. They vary in quality like anything else, and people will praise shows like Re:Zero and KonoSuba even as they claim that LNs are cancer and all terrible.

>>36305154
Visual novels are choose-your-own-adventures, sometimes they don't have any interaction at all.

The fact that a game is interactive does not in the vast majority of cases mean anything for the adaptation.

>>36305092
>LNs

Spice and Wolf was dope yo.

>>36305092
I liked radical dreamers, the pheonix wright series(originally vn) and I also like the steins gate visual novels.

There is room for vn's ,mobile game, mmo and card game anime, however it should not be the main focus.

Let the original medium make a comeback, there is a budget and room enough for manga inspired anime to be relevant again.

>>36305255
There's fifteen or so manga adaptations this season.

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>>36305255
There's more manga being adapted now than ever before.

This may shock you but there's a ton of moe manga as well.

>>36305154
>visual novels
>video games
Sure is new in here

>>36305227
Spice and Wolf is the exception not the rule.

>>36305480
misred his post
I know what a vn is

>>36302520
I've always preferred manga, which aside from being quite expensive has far more variety than anime due to its lower cost of production and entrenchment into Japanese society to the point where it's perfectly normal for some grouchy salaryman to be seen reading it on the train. American comics could hold a similar position if it wasn't for the Comics Code Authority, or CCA for shot, retarding the medium's development by placing aggressive content restrictions that curtailed all but the most juvenile stories.

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>>36304993
>he unironically thinks that literally everyone in japan watches anime

Gundam Wing is fucking garbage and if anybody on here says otherwise kill yourself

>>36304748
The thing about anime is that it's almost always based on an existing property and has been since the very earliest days with stuff like Astro Boy.

>>36305494
*Exception that disproves the rule

>>36305603
>CCA
The cca isn't even around anymore and plenty of diverse comics were released under independent labels even when it was. Comics can never be as big in america because americans are obsessed with self image and comics have been sold off as a nerd hobby or something for kids, neither of which the mainstream public wants to be involved with

>>36305645
The mecha animation and opening themes are good.

>>36305603
Most manga/otaku shit in general is still seen as socially unacceptable in Japan. Less so by 20 somethings, but people will probably think you're a weirdo or pervert.

>>36305748
Love Live was the 8th most popular domestic movie the year it came out. Girls und Panzer was in theatres for a year and has had multiple large public events held at the town where it's set. Government officials have repeatedly publically associated themselves with something "otaku." And so on.

A recent example of "otaku" anime in the mainstream:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/04/14/kemono-friends-goes-wild-on-the-mainstream-with-theme-song-performance

>>36305792
>8th most popular domestic movie
That really doesn't say shit considering that jap domestic movies make fuck all compared to foreign movies, and even more so when you consider that idol otakus waste a shit ton of money on anything relating to whatever groups they like, it's not unusual for them to buy multiple copies of bd/cds just to help with sales numbers

>>36305748
I was under the impression that anime is seen as the weirdo containment medium while manga is as normie as a newspaper assuming it's not plastered with half-naked schoolgirls or something.

>>36305832
Domestic movies actually do better than foreign ones these days, and even many anime movies outperform American live action movies that were very popular in America.

Idols otaku may buy a lot of stuff, but that doesn't account for the mainstream profile of Love Live (or AKB48).

>>36305838
Anime is mainstream in Japan and always has been.

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>>36302520
Not really. Anime and other Jap media started to focus on media for other demographics like Japanese mothers along with little boys around the 21st century.
Compare something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmKw2msvGeo to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmNzziZGGw

>>36304044
Bih fgasfot>>36304044

>>36305748
Anime, or at least the kind enjoyed by otaku and not family stuff like Shin-Chan and Sazae-San, can be seen as unacceptable in Japan but manga is not.

It may be an exaggeration to say that everyone in Japan reads manga but it is enjoyed by pretty much every demographic, not just children and manchildren.

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>>36305674
Bet you like SEED and IBO as well huh?

>>36305900
Late night anime was developed in the late 90s and today makes up the majority of new anime.

>>36305912
K-On is typically seen as the ultimate otaku anime in the West, yet it was also mainstream popular. As is Love Live.

>>36305199
Well, no, it's more like "freedom allows society to govern itself more effectively and not go nuts or shake itself apart".

>you will never draw as good as Masamune Shirow or Tsutomu Nihei

AAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>36305956
The only people who think K-on is "the ultimate otaku anime" are people who have never seen it. It's wholesome as fuck and has very broad appeal, hence why it achieved mainstream popularity.

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>>36305956
Are we on the same side my dude?
I was saying that anime and tokushit in Japan tried to get a wider audience during that time, so it somewhat explains why you don't see as much manly man boy shit nowadays.

>>36302520
Watch Jojos bizzare adventure then no moe shit there

>>36305148
Not that anon but ippo is really repetitive

It is a shitty anime.

>>36305942
I stopped watching newly produced animes after the Toonami block died.

>>36306010
Well that means most people in and around the Western anime community. Very few people have seen it. The point is that the West's understanding of "otaku anime" is all fucked up.

>>36306015
Shows like K-On, Gochuumon and Kiniro Mosaic are late night anime aimed mostly at adult men.

Anime always had a wide audience. Late night anime didn't even start occuring until the late 90s.

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Check out this 23 year old post.

>>36306033
Okay... Why are you telling me this? I don't care what you do.

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>>36306083
And this 21 year old post.

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>>36306083
Here's one more.

blobsblobs

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>>36302520

>mfw not a closet homosexual like OP

>>36306083
>>36306107
>>36306130
They were aware of the slippery slope.
>>36306087
To imply that I never watched SEED or IBO, but I erroneously assumed Toonami died before SEED was produced so I might give it a look.

>>36306227
>They were aware of the slippery slope.
People nowadays are saying the same thing they were, and look back on the 80s and 90s as a hyper-masculine era of scifi and blood and explosions with no "moeshit" to be found.

Oh, this thread blew up.

>>36303073
>>36304683
>>36304906
>>36306083
>>36306107
>>36306130

Maybe you're right and it was always there and I just never noticed.

>>36304286
>>36305645

Fuck YOU!

>>36306248
So the sliding just continues.

>>36304868
>>36304372
It does look gay, I want it

>>36306292
There is no sliding. The entire point is that today's whining about "moeshit" is just history repeating itself in exactly the same way.

>>36306304
Is it that people are oblivious to the cute shit when they're young or is it just that they're growing out of anime?

>>36306304
Are you saying anime in general was just as moey as it was 20 years ago?

>>36302520
I don't really hate or even dislike moe, but I do really dislike the stock standard digital art style that most mainstream anime uses these days.

>>36306329
My theory is that they enter anime through things like Akira and Ninja Scroll and Cowboy Bebop, develop expectations about anime based on them and similar anime, eventually come face to face with the actual reality of anime, and then misinterpret it as anime having changed, even though it was only their perception of it that changed.

>>36306361
There was a lot of cute anime about cute girls. Not as much as today, but then again the total amount of anime back then was very small compared to today.

>>36306421
*a lot of anime about cute girls

That sorta stuff's been around since almost the dawn of anime (see: Harenchi Gakuen, Urusei Yatsura)

However, the 80's and especially 90's were a time of "coolness". Things/characters in art got progressively tougher, cooler, or grittier. Once the 00's (especially late 00's with things like Azumanga Daioh and Lucky Star), people realized that not EVERYTHING had to be serious. So we're currently in the reactionary period, where we contrast the coolness of 80's/90's anime in favor of total goofiness.

Also hikki market in Japan sells well and eats up this shit

>>36306465
Hikikomori means shut-in. People who don't leave their rooms or homes. It is not synonymous with otaku and is not a target demographic for the industry.

>>36306408
There is something so special about unique hand-drawn animation

>>36306465
Also there was no shortage of less serious anime in the 80s and 90s, nor is there a shortage of serious anime today.

>>36306408
>>36306503
Anime is still hand-drawn. What digital animation means today is that the drawings are scanned for coloring and compositing.

>>36305075
LINA A BEST

>>36306421
>>36306465
>>36306523
I think my problem with modern anime is the serious ones simply fall short of the greatness of the classics.

>>36306408
At lest it's better than that slapped-together MS Paint look that makes everything look like a shitty newspaper comic that Western animations stubbornly insist on using.

>>36306593
Mate you can't call something hand drawn if it's coloured by a computer

>>36306658
It's drawn by hand but painted by a computer.

>>36306658
The animation drawings are drawn on pen and paper. The animators didn't draw the colors in the past either, that was the coloring department.

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>>36306670
Even western cartoons took that idea from asian and european cartoons.

We used to be 10 years behind japan, now it's finally 5.

>>36306748
American shows are probably more behind now than they were in the past, when Japan actually produced a lot of American shows.

Casual vidya always existed but to say it didn't negatively adversely affect hardcore/skill-based vidya when it blew up out of proportion would be pure denial. I can't shake the feeling the same thing happened with moe vs serious anime.

>>36306807
There is no moe anime.

There are still a lot of great action anime such as Jojos bizarre adventure, Gurren Lagann, etc. Anime has just spread into more categories and some are more popular then others.

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>>36302520
Fuck off, moe has always been a thing. It's just that it use to be novel and well done as in Azumanga. Hell, R.O.D. is one of my favorites ever and it's an old one that's basically moe. Anime in general has declined because the industry is already creatively bankrupt after just a few decades. Anyone who's been watching since just early 2000s will agree.
Also this >>36304511
>>36306844
You have shit taste if those are your faves.

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>mfw reading through this thread

It's nice to see this board is still able to keep quality threads and discussions, love you guys, pls never leave.

>>36307614
don't be a contrarian faggot jjba and ttgl are objectively good anime

>>36307614
>anyone who's watched Toonami and then repeated 4chan memes will agree

>>36307663
I'm not saying they're bad you meming dipshit, but if they're you're favorites then you like water sandwhiches with a glass of sunshine. Besides. Anything after part 2 sucks and everything after Kamina kicks it sucks as well. Trigger (or whatever they are now) is only good at making 6 episode series. The longer it goes the worse the quality hence their downhill spiral, ha.
>>36307691
Ha I wish it were a meme. Then newfags would like it without knowing why and at least they'd have good taste.

>>36307732
It is a meme. Pretty much everything Westerners think they know about anime is a meme. Hardly anyone has even watched modern anime.

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>>36307750
You lost me at
>Hardly anyone has even watched modern anime.
I'm giving you guys the last word since I'm tired as shot. My golden era of anime was 2000-2009. That was when the best stuff came out,obviously opinion cool your spergy weeb fingers. There's still the occassional new good thing (Arslan, Kekkai, Valkyria those are most recent I can think off) but things have gone downhill.
I ain't some elitist I just like to banter so don't think I'm jerkin off to my own taste. A ton of new anime just feels shallow. Wish I could describe it better than that. I still watch stuff, but I'm usually letdown after the initial few episodes. I'm sure someone knows what I mean. Things just don't feel the sams.

Flip Flappers was beautiful, fucka you!

>>36307860
>You lost me at
If you look at, say, MAL statistics, it seems like people are watching. But when you go to anime communities or anywhere people are talking about anime, it's obvious nobody is watching almost any of this shit. It becomes obvious again and again and again. People don't have even a basic idea of what's going on with anime, or what was going on with it 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

>>36302520
Anime is just autist shit that appeals to development fucked men all across the globe
Sure looking back a couple shows were good, the difference between the good and the bad being so big there is no point in even arguing it
Anime fans are happy having their own wierd porn that lets them pretend they live in nipon and apparently people making it are just as happy so wathever

>>36308101
Meme. Anime and autism have nothing to do with each other, and anime is watched by all demographics. Your Name for example was the #1 movie this year in Japan and is the #4 or #3 movie of all time in Japan now.

>Anime fans are happy having their own wierd porn that lets them pretend they live in nipon
What are you talking about?

>>36308165
I'm obviously using the internet definition of autist. Wich mean wierd crap fro crazy people like sonic the hedgehog or competitive cup stacking

Sure it's watched by all demographics but some demographics are more equal than other are they not?
I'm talking about all the sexaul pandering and ouright pornography being made
Japan has a monopoly on that kind of porn and 14-40 lonely men eat it up

a/ was a mistake remember. So it doesn't matter faggit

keks

>>36308227
Anime covers a huge spectrum of stories and for all demographics.

>pandering
Doesn't exist, and I don't see anyone complain about sexuality or pornography in live action media.

>Japan has a monopoly on that kind of porn and 14-40 lonely men eat it up
And every Westerner who watches porn is a 10/10 successful alpha male, right?

>>36308248
BRAINLETS OUT
REEEEE

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>>36307913
>Westerners have no idea what's going on with a niche media produced and most prominent half way across the globe
Who cudda thunk, right?

>>36308320
I'm not talking about the average Westerner, I'm talking about self-described "anime fans" and "otaku."

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>>36308357
Well of course, most of my favorite anime of the past few years are relatively unknown among so-called "Anime Pro's".

That's why it's all the more aggravating when I try to rec say, The Tatami Galaxy or Kids on the Slope to someone and they just tell me to stop watching pedo cartoons.

Watching anime will never be considered normal because the core audience has such awful taste and promotes the worst of the medium.

>>36306361
This is a good point. We had things like Sailor Moon in the 80s, but that was actually a show for girls. I don't recall a lot of girly chibi shows that were really for men.

>>36309140
Movies, OVAs and games had a lot of bishoujo characters, and even in cases like Minky Momo there were male viewers even though they weren't the target audience.

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>>36302520
I dunno, you tell me OP
>Neetu animu master race

>>36302520
YOu need to look harder for better anime.
Its not netflix youre going to have to look for what certain thing you want.
I love anime with guns in it.