***Christian General Thread***

>>36287201
>When you're Jewish and there is no heaven and hell but your religion has experienced hell so there's no need to think of anything shittier.

>>36287201
Thanks bud, I'm already a Christian.

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oOOOOOOOHHHHH MUHHHH LAAAWRDDDD JEYYYZAAAAAAZZZ

>>36287201
Should the bible be interpreted? Or is it more of a litterally work?

I feel it's more of a figuratively work, but then, who can intetpret it correctly?

>>36287257
Shit I remember seeing one of these. It was with some weird thing about the Pope orchestrating Communism and Islam.

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>>36287201
>when you turn a bunch of tribes into a unified enlightened Christian society

feels good

I have a question for you. If God is all good and morality is objective how come he killed millions in the old testament, mostly over land or petty revenge, then said that you should turn the other cheek in the new. Does God's own morality not apply to him?

>>36287305
And then later this society becomes decadent and allows multiculturalism and other sjw shit in.

Seriously, what the fuck happened to Western society?

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When I die, I will spit on the face of God. Why serve a God that uses you as a simple toy?

Fuck all of you.

>>36287201
>christian general thread
>on /r9k/

this is a joke right

>>36287351
I didn't do nothing to you, don't be angry at me

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>>36287330
Armenia is still 92% Christian

Is my little brother here?

>>36287387
That might be the case, but only when we are free of the other inferior Abrahamic religions will be masters of our own destiny.

>>36287330
>Seriously, what the fuck happened to Western society?

People got so high living standards so they could spend time whining on internet

>>36287201
Have you ever actually thought about how far fetched Christianity is? You're just an average Jew in Israel and here's this guy going around saying he's the Son of God but also God at the same time and how he'll revive and save everyone in your lifetime and it never happens

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WHY HELLO MY FELLOW DISCIPLES

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>>36287318
>Does God's own morality not apply to him?

It does not. In all religions, God has a special exemption clause for brutality and murder.

Hey guys OP here. I went out to buy some food and if you want me to answer any questions feel free to ask. Also, self bump!

>>36287574
Hitler didn't believe in interracial marriage when it is even allowed in the bible. numbers 12:1

>>36287791
irc a lot of the nazi higher ups wanted to evenutally do away with Christianity and bring back european pagan religions.

>>36287791
Hitler didn't believe in many things in the bible. He wasn't really a Christian.

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>>36287226
Actually, some Jews do in fact believe in a hell. A one I can think of on the top of my head would be Rabbi Tovia singer.

>>36287289
Depends. When people talk we can tell when they're being literal of figurative the same is for the bible but the difference is most of the figurative speech, and deliberate speech is harder to indicate since he was talking to a completely different context in a different culture and the best way to determine what is literal and not would really be to read it in the original language and study ancient Jewish traditions.

>>36287318
God is a loving God but also a just one and when you realise how bad sin is then you understand that then you realise why Christ did what he did. It takes a lot to make God angry. Sodom and Gomorrah sined for probably a long time but God was patient with them and even let them have their way for however long, the Bible doesn't tell us how long but it was long enough for them to create a society. Anyway just understand that God is not one dimensional.

>>36287359
Yeah, you're probs right but I have to spread the message man.

>>36287390
We are all brothers under christ.

>>36287429
>he'll revive and save everyone in your lifetime and it never happens

If you read my first comment on this post I am writing now I talked about cultural context and what not but the thing is christ never said that. I actually studied the verse where he talked about this generation will not taste death until the son of man comes but once you read it in the original language you get a different picture

>>36287941
Yeah, he wasn't but what were his beliefs?

Another self bump for the thread.

>>36288064
Oh I get it. When the Israelites destroyed Jericho and raped and murdered everyone inside it wasn't because they wanted their land, it was because they were sinners. It was just a coincidence that the people who lived on their land were sinners!

>>36288464What proof do you have that they raped people? Also, they weren't really all killed off. If you read my post again you realise that when God speaks he's speaking to a certain cultural context. Yes, it says that they were killed, but if you carry on reading, you realise that those inhabitants were in fact still alive later on in the bible. The idea of genociding an entire race was a common linguistic tool to show how you destroyed your enemies not that you actually did it. We use it to for example when we watch a sports game, and one side wins a game against the other we don't just say oh we won but rather we smashed them or we slaughtered them. The same linguistic tool was used in the old testament. Also, their sinns reached a point that was soo far removed from God that they would have never repented. Also, read about the inhabitants of that area, and you will realise that they were, in fact, terrible people. Also, recent archeological findings show that it happened in a military site and not actually in a village. The more you know.

self bump oringeelal

I've been wanting to get back in touch with God again. At the moment I only pray, but I carry with me many "Christian" beliefs and views. But I'm not a particularly nice or social person. I understand that, thanks to Christ, my sins will be forgiven but will God see me in a less positive way if I don't "love thy neighbor" etc.? Can I call myself a Christian and still think people are twats, dislike normies etc?

I have a question about praying too. I pray once a day but never go prepared. My thoughts flow freely and are unstructured. Should I try to make my prayers more structured? Should I pray out loud too, or will God hear my thoughts as clearly as he would my voice?

Thank you. If you're the same guy from the thread a few days ago you played a major role in re-introducing me to God and my wanting to have faith again. Reading what you told others about God made me remember how beautiful he is.

>>36287201
How was Matthew a tax collector if he clearly couldn't count? More directly, why should I take this religion seriously when its own holy books can't even be consistent within single chapters?

>>36287201
Why do you all believe in God?

>>36287201
I could get on board with Christianity, but two things really seem ridiculous to me. The first is the Old Testament: it's outright evil in many cases (the plagues of Egypt, binding of Isaac) and simply fairy-tale tier bullshit in others (Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark).

The second issue I have with Christianity is the trinity. It's outright illogical and ridiculous. Any rational person cannot, in their right mind, accept it without turning off their capacity for critical thought. I might convert to Christianity if there were any Adoptionist or Marcionist churches around, but it seems to me that the wrong and often ridiculous Christian sects were the ones that won out, so it turns me right off from the faith. Any other anons hold this position?

>>36289470
>>>/r/Iamverysmart
>>>/r/borninthewronggeneration

>>36289470
Yes, that's pretty much my problem. Although it's a religion based on faith not logic. It's pretty difficult to throw all sense and reasoning out the window to accept crazy shit. I'd really like to be a Christian though.

>>36289520
>>36289470
Yeah get back here when you actually read things written by Christians and not Dawkins :^)

>>36289470
I'm the opposite. I feel like the Old Testament makes more sense. I don't think God would be this happy peaceful guy who tries to get along with everyone. In the Old Testament he actually interacts with humanity and has character, he's not 'just above it all'

>>36289509
Thanks for not even remotely addressing my points. I'll put it to you, then. Why is OT God NOT evil when he hardens the Pharoah's heart and kills all of the firstborn in Egypt - even those who are children of innocent slaves.

And why do you believe in the trinity?

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>>36288746
Lmao yeah it was a "linguistic tool". I'm sure that they just got together, played a game of grab ass, then left. The bible is supposed to be the infallible unerring word of God. Why would he repeatedly say he slaughtered an entire people if he didn't? Was he lying?
Join the real world buddy. This was ancient warfare and conquest, rape was a part of it. And remember how the only person saved from that city was a prostitute who betrayed the city? If I was stupid enough to believe that Jericho was only a military encampment then I could ask if the Israeli army slaughtered all the other prostitutes who stayed inside the camp.
Again if there sins were so bad that they could never be saved then why does God say in the new testament that no sin is too much to be forgiven?

I don't care if you have to read the bible to help you sleep at night but don't try to pretend it's historically accurate then use "linguistic tools" as an excuse.

>>36289546
I don't read Dawkins. If you yourself can't see how fucky the Bible can get sometimes you're an idiot. By all means try to convince me otherwise instead of just throwing out petty insults because I would really like to be a Christian.

God is just a mass created tulpa.

Prove me wrong.

I've been drawn more and more to Christianity recently. The way it is attacked or disregarded has fired something up in me. Should I just go to my local church and see how I like it?

>>36289650
>local church
That's rather vague. Different churches believe different things.

>>36289650
Go to a Protestant church

>>36289668
Well I was babptised and raised Catholic so I figured I'd find the nearest R.C

>>36289367
>How was Matthew a tax collector if he clearly couldn't count?
Sorry, I'm not too familiar with this argument please provide the chapter and verse that says so.
>cant even be consistent within single chapters
Again you're gonna have to give me an example. There are a load of stuff in the bible people try to use to say it has contradictions and I can't answer them all.
>>36289316
>Can I call myself a Christian and still think people are twats, dislike normies, etc.to actually do it?
Well, if you're trying to get into heaven by your works then I would say give up. You can't do it. The reason why the law was even shown in the first place was to show us how sinful actually to do it. There are +600 laws in the OT, and it is impossible to believe in it all and so to follow it all would be impossible and shows us how helpless we are. But don't think that Christ left you hanging the lived that perfect life all for you. But the thing is he didn't have to he could have left you in your sins and just enjoyed his time up in heaven but for you he left his diminion and enter into creation and paid the penalty so you wouldn't have to.
But also get this the fact that you have realsie dthat you can't please god and are weak to you sins gives you an incentive to come to christ because why would a rightous man need chist?
Cont

>>36289692
Catholic churches suck because they make you recite verses. Protestant is best church

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>>36289316
>On hearing this, Jesus said to them It is not the healthy who need a doctor but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners.
Mark 2:17
If you want help with pray then I would suggest you follow the pattern john piper talks about which goes as follows. Firstly, notice that yoou can't do it on your own. you are too weak to do it. This puts you in the right mindset to seek help from god. Second pray for help from god and lastly have trust in god that he will be faithful to you and don't worry about anything. But a freely praying is good and you should overall try to be honest with god and tell him how you feel and what you need help with
And yes I am the guy from the other thread and I'm very glad you have come closer to christ. God bless you.

>>36289433
Because he exists.

You fucking worm. You disgrace the name of God with your retarded religion. You put God in level with us humans. Id burn you alive if i could. Bringing down our eternal father like that. Repent on your stupidity please.

>>36289470
I haven't got time to answer the first question unless you have a more specific example but for the trinity, question see >>36242099

>>36289718
What do protestants do instead?

>>36289753
I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him. I believe in him because he exists. He exists because I believe in him.

>>36289782
Make you recite verses a little less...

>>36289564
>why does God say in the new testament that no sin is too much to be forgiven?
It doesn't say that. A more biblical saying would be that some people can give themselves to sin to the point that they will never repent. That was my point not that some sins can't be forgiven.

>>36287201
i think most people don't understand how god works, you would have to be a genius to understand how he works. that said, i think most people believe in him because there are parts of the world that are incredibly orderly, and they may have had some prayer answered for them.

>>36289787
>I believe in him because he exists.
Yes

>He exists because I believe in him.
No.

etc.

I gave such a lame response because I wanted to get into a deep conversation and was hoping you'd say something like "what proof is there" but you have shown that you don't really care and rather just wanna argue,

>>36289864
Ok, give proof then. I want to hear it

>>36289778
Why would God endow us with the faculty of reason and then demand we believe something that flies in the face of that faculty?! I understand the importance of faith in Christianity, and I am willing to have faith in the existence of Jesus, and of God, but it is cruel and frankly unreasonable for God to ask us to have faith in a concept that is so illogical and ridiculous. No, I rather think that the Nicene and Chalcedonian councils simply got it wrong in regards to the trinity. As I mentioned earlier, I believe the Adoptionists and Marcionists were much closer to the truth, but they sadly no longer exist

>>36289710
>Sorry, I'm not too familiar with this argument please provide the chapter and verse that says so.
It's the very first chapter in Matthew, when he's listing the geneology of Jesus, and then, in verse 17, says there are 14 generations from Abraham to David, another 14 from the David to the Babylonian exile, and 14 from Babylonian exile to Jesus. Count up his names in the preceding verses, you get 14-14-13, not 14-14-14.

>Again you're gonna have to give me an example. There are a load of stuff in the bible people try to use to say it has contradictions and I can't answer them all.

Well, that was the best example I can think of "in a single chapter", but seriously, there's a ridiculous mass of contradictions. Why do you have John and the Synoptic Gospels putting the Crucifixion on different dates (John 18:20 makes it clear that the presentation of Jesus before Pilate is before bringing the Passover offering, as the priests are worried about defiling themselves and being unable to partake in it; the three synoptic gospels last suppers all mention that they were preparing the Passover). Or you have just flat out absurdities like Hebrews 9:22 claiming that shedding of blood is essential for atonement under the Mosiatic Law, which even a cursory look at things like Leviticus 5:11-13, or 2 Chronicles 7:14, or the end of Jonah show is wrong.

>>36289904
The universe is complex and something complex requires a creator. Even if it isn't complex the fact that it exist means ti had to come about into existence by something and the idea that nothing, which was triggered by nothing, created something is just preposterous.

>>36289710
>The reason why the law was even shown in the first place was to show us how sinful actually to do it.

Not him, the other guy, but that too, is contradicted by the Bible, in this case, Deuteronomy 30:11.

>>36289980
This argument is fundamentally flawed. Simply because we don't yet have a good understanding of how the universe came into existence, is not proof that it was the Abrahamic God who created everything. Those claims have nothing to do with each other.
1. I don't know how the universe came into being as there is no evidence for it.
2. Therefore it must be the Christian God

It doesn't follow at all. For the record I do believe in some sort of creator or prime mover, but to suggest that it is the Abrahamic God is frankly ridiculous

>>36289980
I think the fact the concept of infinity exists means that the universe has always existed

>>36289983
The word for too hard used in this verse can also be used for not being too hard for one to understand which would go in line with other OT passages. e.g Isaiah 64:6
>See Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges commentary.

>>36287201
>protestants still exist
Ree.

But reminder that abrahamic relgion was invented by the Jews and this is 4chan.

>>36289914
Understand this. We are not commanded to comprehend god but rather his teachings. The trinity is hard to comprehend but we are to humble ourselves and accept what we cannot comprehend whilst teaching and preaching what we can. God is not a god of confusion but that doesn't not mean that he himself cannot be incomprehensible. I mean I can't understand how god was always there but I still believe it.

>>36289948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnn8SUM349M

Check this out.

>>36290087
>Simply because we don't yet have a good understanding of how the universe came into existence, is not proof that it was the Abrahamic God
Yes, but without our, a first uncaused cause nothing else in creation could have come about.

>>36290110
Wait, there are different types of infinities. If this universe did start at a point and continues forever then how would the infinity without a starting point be represented in our universe? God?

>>36290110
>I think the fact the concept of infinity exists
As an atheist how can you even begin to prove that?

>the universe has always existed
non sequitur.

>>36289636
You are right famicom.

>>36290194
>>protestants still exist
What's wrong with being protestant? And also thanks for noticing.

>But reminder that Abrahamic religion was invented by the Jews
yeah, but most of the time god was bashing them for not listening to his law.

>>36290278
Idk man. Watch this video. Who knows how long this has been going on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKapUWxTvWI

>>36290314
I've read some of his work and it just seems like he tries to prove that nothing itself is something. I can't recall his name but a scientist gave his book a 2 out of 10 because of this and thought that it was a terrible book. I can give you the source if you want.

>>36290278
Not him but we create ourselves. The robot we create, the singularity, creates us, in a loop that never ends. It ends differently each time, and begins differently, but eventually repeats, not literally, but in essence does the same thing in a slightly different way each time. Also, each second, each thing in the universe is infinitely big because it can be infinitely divided.

>>36290344
Just watch it all

>>36290375
I meant time was not every thing*

>>36290263
That's fine. Like I said I myself believe in a prime mover. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the Abrahamic God is that prime mover. In all actuality, any being capable of creating the entire universe would be so vastly incomprehensible to us that any claims to understanding it MUST be untrue

>>36290375
Who created and began this loop? Also, there is not proof of this but rather is less than a theory an hypothesis.

>>36290162
I literally have no idea what you're trying to say here. The word in question, "Niphlat" (I can't seem to post it in Hebrew here), is not found anywhere in Isaiah 64, nor are any of the conjugations of its root.

>>36290240
I haven't even gotten into the contradictory nature of the 2 geneologies. Matthew's geneology contradicts his own statement that there were 14 generations between Babylonian exile and Jesus. Please defend that, rather than sending me to a youtube vid which only seems to vaguely deal with the problem.

>>36290423
>something needs a beginning
If it never ends it never began anon.

>>36290415
>There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the Abrahamic God is that prime mover
That's another discussion which I would be more than happy to talk about.

>>36290480
Well, it couldn't have begun itself the loop must have had something that began it. And how can something create itself since it itself must have existed to create... That's confusing and is probably not true. Also, there's no evidence for it and is pure hypothesis.

>>36290222
>Understand this. We are not commanded to comprehend god but rather his teachings. The trinity is hard to comprehend but we are to humble ourselves and accept what we cannot comprehend whilst teaching and preaching what we can.
The trinity is an interpretation made by men, though. I highly suspect that the theologians of the Nicene and Chalcedonian councils simply got it wrong. As I mentioned before, I cannot believe God would endow us with the discerning ability of reason and then command us to accept something unreasonable. That's not just.

>God is not a god of confusion but that doesn't not mean that he himself cannot be incomprehensible. I mean I can't understand how god was always there but I still believe it.
That's a requirement to accept God exists, though. And it's one thing to demand faith in something incomprehensible. It's quite another to demand faith in something unreasonable.

>>36290491
Okay, then provide me a tidbit of evidence that the prime mover IS, in fact, the Abrahamic God. This is a Christian and not merely Deist thread after all

>>36290437
My point was that when the verse talks about the law not being too hard, the word used can also be translated as not too hard to understand as the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges commentary says.

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Anyone Common Filth here?

>>36290605
see >>36240702
It shows the systematic attack atheists use against the bible to disprove it.

>>36290623
>My point was that when the verse talks about the law not being too hard, the word used can also be translated as not too hard to understand as the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges commentary says.

Which is a pretty ridiculous statement, as contemporary Jewish religious thinkers don't treat keeping the Mosiatic Law as some sort of impossible task that requires an interceder to help you out in performance of.

>>36290669
>The fact that it is such a huge religion today, which was predicted in the bible that one day the gospel would be preached all around the world. Also, this is a very big statement to make since when Christianity first started it was illegal and only a couple people were Christians so the thought of it being this big today would have been preposterous.
Oh come on, that's fucking ridiculous. "It's big so it must be true." When socialism and Marxism started, it was tiny and largely illegal and grew to encompass billions of people. That doesn't make socialism and Marxism true. Plenty of religions have made claims to greatness and been destroyed, Christianity survived because of historical circumstance, and even then it is not even close to the same Christianity of Constantine.

>Also, marks gospel, which has been dated to the year 70, was dated so late because it predicted the fall of the Jerusalem temple and because atheistic scholars came with the presupposition that God doesn't exist, and miracles are impossible they pushed it up to the year 70 when it should have been during the lifetime of Jesus somewhere in the 30's.
Prove to me there was a concerted effort to misdate it.

>>36290579
the trinity is that the one being god has three distinct persons who are not each other but rather each distinct persons of the godhead or are all one in essence. The council of Nicea did not decide what doctrine would be considered true and heresy but was rather a discussion of the nature of christ IE was he of the same substance as god or god himself.

>>36290578
And if some things that are true are impossble to prove? A computer set up to reset doesn't need to be aware of it's design to function.

>>36290744
Don't forget how Mark makes numerous errors that would be bizarre for a native of Judea concerning local laws and culture, like his implication that women could divorce their husbands, or how he thinks that someone going from Tyre to the Galilee would go 200 miles out of their way to Sidon for some reason. Or, you know, write his Gospel in Greek.

>>36290698
>Which is a pretty ridiculous statement, as contemporary Jewish religious thinkers don't treat keeping the Mosiatic Law as some sort of impossible task that requires an interceder to help you out in performance of.
But some did. Also see Isaiah 64:6. Our righteousness is like filthy rags meaning that we are incapable of doing good,

>>36290806
Ok, but I mean if your entire argument is based on something that can never be proved or disproved IE unfalsifiable, then it isn't an argument at all.

>>36290578
It begins itself anon. Don't be gay now.

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>>36290852
How can it begin itself if it didn't exist in the first place to create itself?

>>36290848
>prove it
>religion thread
Stop it.
>>36290872
Because time is infinite so it never ends thus it never began. Loop muther fucker do you speak it!

>>36290744
>Prove to me there was a concerted effort to misdate it.
It predicted the fall of the second Jerusalem temple in 70 ad so they pushed up the dating of mark to account for this prophecy.

>>36290829
>But some did.
Name one Non-Christian who said anything of the sort.

>Also see Isaiah 64:6. Our righteousness is like filthy rags meaning that we are incapable of doing good,
No it doesn't. I mean for starters, it LITERALLY doesn't say that.

>There are none who call your name, that rouse themselves to grasp you, for you have hidden your face from us, and ruined us by the hands of our sins.

But assuming you actually mean 64:5, the fact that Isaiah is castigating his own generation as sinners who deserve to be punished doesn't mean that no righteousness is possible.

>>36290872
Okay, I'll explain it in greentext
>life creates robot
>robot creates life
>life creates robot
>etc
>one or both of the two re-explode the universe so it can create itself
>cycle repeats

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>Christianity thread
>On 4chan

I'm gonna need you to kill yourself OP

>>36290744
Also first predicted that it would be huge communism never knew but were rather just going off of what they believed. It's not that it is big that it's true but rather that it was predicted to would be big which is quite a statement once you realise how small of a religion it was.

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>>36290951
No. desu ne! damn it still not original

>>36290986
I've never understood "Christians" who come here. You claim to follow your gods commandments yet you come to the one of the most vile communities. It's like if a Mormon went to a strip club and said it was okay because he was just "chatting."

>>36291104
Why do you think Jesus hung out with prostitutes?

>>36290986
are you fateanon? no way

>>36291115
Yeah I'm gonna highly doubt you come on 4chan just to spread the fucking gospel

>>36291104
I've been to church and the way they are now days, because no one shoots people when annoyed anymore, they preach that you are responsible for your brothers getting into heaven, and if you don't spread the word god is angery with you. So they harrass you to try to save you, because they'll have to feel guilty if they don't. Luckily, they also have to obey the laws of the land and harrasment is illegal. So fuck em.

Is it possible to be a christian, but not believe in love and also hate women?

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Fuck off, Christfag

Take it to Cripplechan

>>36291435
>hate women
Nothing incompatible with Christianity
>not believe in love
Elaborate

>>36291503
>Elaborate
Well, I think that "love" only exists in a way that you can love God who created everything that exists. "Love" between two people isn't actual love, it's more of a sexual lust.

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>unironically being a Christcuck

Great way to out yourself as an idiot.

>>36291476
>Sir_Reginald_in_his_youth.png

>>36290959
Marx predicted that Communism would envelop the world. The early practitioners of Communism had an almost religious belief in its success