/bpg/ - Black Pill General

>>36236182
>people who have goals are spooks

"No"

>>36236266
>people who view getting a partner and making a family are spooks
Ftfy friendo. It seemed like you misread part of the OP.

>>36236266
It's not what I said, wanting a gf or a family as a goal is a spook.

>>36236182
Can one agree with both Stirner and Kant regarding morals?

You're all fucking retarded and below literature and philosophy
if you were actually serious you would have read the essays and novels you regurgitate memes from, but I suppose it doesn't matter seeing as you are all incapable of actual comprehension.

>>36236310
Why?

>>36236301
Why?

Explain without using the term 'spook'

>>36236369
No, if something is beneficial for you you should do it, even if it goes against the categorical imperative. An egoist would kill for example (if the benefits gained would outweigh the consequences at least), someone who agrees with Kant on the other hand wouldn't.

>>36236384
Want to support your incoherent rant or just throw a tantrum?

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>>36236390
Why would you want to bring another living creature into this world only for it to be tortured and harmed for it's entire existence?
It's horribly cruel.

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>>36236266
The people aren't spooks, the goals are spooks.

>>36236182
Can we have a talk about why normies are so scared and defensive about other people committing suicide?
Like, I don't get the mentality. Is it just a coping mechanism against their own self-destructive tendencies? Some kind of paternalizing power struggle?
I don't trust people like that, I feel like the spook of having the right to stop someone from taking their own life by any means necessary is one of the most insidious spooks to ever exist.

>>36236369
Absolutely not. You could bastardize both and reach a compromise, but that's a dumb thing to do.

>>36236384
What makes you think we don't read our shit?

>>36236390
There's no actual personal benefit to getting a partner and having children other than reducing some of the workload on yourself. Getting slaves would make more sense than getting a family.

>>36236369
Seems contradictorious.

Stirner would argue they are districtions, more importantly fabricated, while Kant argues their objectivisim, those their unquestionable nature, unless I'm missing something which there's a good chance I do.

How exactly do you view morality personaly?

>>36236182
isn't blackpill more of an anarchopassivist deal

>>36236424
Why not? I want a family and life is getting better every generation.

>>36236429
Who care If goals are spooks who cares if they provide direction and happiness

>>36236441
That is not true at all.

>>36236390
Family in itself is worthless, all it offers you is emotional value while keeping you from achieving your self interest. You might argue that the emotional value is your self interest, but the goal of an egoist is to accept that this emotional aspect is nothing more than a burden. keeping you from reaching philosophical freedom.

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this is a good thread originally

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>>36236450
Personally, the only morals that exist and should be followed are the ones that God gives us. All other morals do not exist and have no weight nor value.

My question about compromise between Kant and Stirner is because they seem to agree that man-made morals do not exist. The difference being that Stirner says all morals are spooks, whereas Kant says God's morals are objective. as I understand it, currently

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I'm too much of a pussy to take Stirner seriously but at least his memes are good shit

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>>36236441
Slaves are illegal, though. High risk.

>>36236467
>Who care If goals are spooks who cares if they provide direction and happiness
People who care about having as few spooks as possible parasitizing their brain.

>>36236384
All you do is call others retarded without any explainations yet alone counter arguments, also groundless assumptions: the perfect example of a sheep's mindset, if it can even be called so considering a mind is something sheep lack.

>>36236467
>that's not true at all
How not? How do the personal benefits of a family outweigh the consequences?

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>>36236429
Its pretty ironic. A lot of the time, normies don't support suicide because they're "close" to someone (family member, "friend", etc) and don't want deprived of them or have to feel guilt over their death. This is a selfish act itself, which is funny because normies commonly describe suicide as selfish.

>>36236492
>its a I let god decide my morals for me episode

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>>36236467
>Why not? I want a family and life is getting better every generation.
>life is getting better every generation.
You must be baiting me now, right?
You honestly can't believe that life is getting better as each generation goes on, right?

>>36236492
No, Stirner acknowledges that all morals are man made, the thing is they are useless. Morals aren't natural, they are taught.

>>36236538
That is what normalfags actually believe. They delude themselves that le future is great and want to keep their bloodline going. Having children because of that is incredibly pathetic, who would want to focus one's energy on making someone else become successful instead of succeeding in achieving one's own interests? Parents are philosophical cuckolds.

>>36236513
Well God is the highest power there is. It would be absurd and foolish not to obey Him.

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>>36236492
How many of your loved ones would God have to kill before you stopped worshiping him? Just curious.

>>36236469
Yes. Being happy is in my best interest, and i want a family to do it with me. You do you.

>>36236496
Why are spooks inherently bad? I rather be happy than some miserable prick. I like my spooks.

>>36236538
Life is getting better for people all around the world. It's a statistical fact. Especially the lives of those born in first world countries. We could be living in paradise in 200 years anyway.

>>36236539
Morality has a biological basis and is very useful to society.

How do I get into existentialism?

What books/movies do you guys recomend?

>>36236539
>>36236450
>>36236429
Thanks for clearing that up for me!

>>36236390
>Why?

Because in the long run you're only creating problems for yourself, your partner and most importantly your yet to be children for the sake of comforming to something society tells you is right and important without any actual logical explaination.

Getting married gets in the way of ersonal progress, it's almost always the case, you actively decide to forfit your chances at life for a relationship that statistically is bound to run its course within a few years, leaving you stuck in what's no longer anything other that a legal contruct with a person you have ne desire to be with.

As far as having children go, it's (ironically) the most immoral thing a person can commit, how people can view giving life as anything possitive is a mystery.

>>36236580
>Morality has a biological basis and is very useful to society.
Why do you think parents have to teach their children what is right and wrong? Also, am I the fucking society? No, I am an individual, the ego, I don't care what benefits the society, I care what benefits myself and submitting to rules that keep me from getting what I want would be moronic.

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>>36236457
elaborating:

To be quite honest, I think true-kvlt whatever blackpill thought would reject even the redemption of egoism.

In other words, accepting that spooks, while not made of matter, can be functionally "real" superorganisms, like "the state"-- they can kill you, they have real effects-- but recognizing, unlike /pol/ bluepillers do, that they are almost completely unbeholden to human will.

Stirner lives in a haunted house, but blackpill is what happens when you realize the ghosts are real, but they're monsters that were never people to begin with.

>>36236580
>We could be living in paradise in 200 years anyway.
Try to guess how I know that you are a lefty normalfag who doesn't know how the world works.

>>36236577
I wouldn't stop worshipping him. His actions don't change whether or not he should be worshipped and revered.

>>36236602
Morality is a spook, is it not?

Long run, everything creates problems.

It makes me happy, so i'll do it.

>>36236619
Just don't do anything illegal, for your own sake as well.

>>36236657
Nah

OP is a very spooked individual and doesn't understand Stirner.

Normie is a spook. Robot is a spook. Existentialism is the ultimate spook.

>>36236665
>Just don't do anything illegal
Too late for that anyway. But in addition, would you kill someone if you knew you could get away with it and benefited greatly from it? The only thing keeping people from doing that is muh feefees and morals, that's what the spook thing is all about. They keep you from doing what is good for you, because it makes you think that it matters if things are bad for others.

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>>36236662
I take it you worship the Christian god?

Why do you believe? Did you convert in adulthood, or were you raised to believe in him? Do you legitimately believe that from the thousands and thousands of religions throughout time, yours is the sole correct one?

>>36236687
t. spook

>>36236591
Don't let youself be contrived by views of other people on the matter, it would defy the very aspect of the concept. Go to wikipedia and read about the main philosophers in the field: Stirner, Nietzsche and from there on carve your own path. Look at different aspects of their philosophies that interest you, read about them and then just keep expending upon it. The school of thought, like most, is rather vast, it's better to get a personal exerience rather that just read the meme pieces and call it a day.

Or at the very least just enjoy Stirner memes which are great.

>>36236580
Spooks are what you make it. Lots of people read stirner and misunderstand and make a negative moral judgement on all morality and meaning. You can have meaning, but it's a spook. It's in your head. It does not exist as anything outside the human brain.

>>36236580
>Why are spooks inherently bad?
They aren't. They're only bad in so far as they hurt and stunt my own fulfillment, my own ego.
I don't give a shit if some hermit in the woods thinks they're magic or something. I give a shit when they come down to my house and try to kill me for a blood ritual.
Many spooks in modern society affect me adversely, the ones that don't I either ignore or adopt, like you. I can't think of any that I willfully allow, but if there was one that benefited me I would take it up.

>>36236662
Is there any bad thing that God could possibly do to make you feel the need to stop worshiping him? Sentencing all people to eternal rape? Forcing parents to eat their children? Forcing parents to eat and rape their children for eternity? Anything?

>>36236714
Personal experience, is why I believe him. Yes I was raised Christian, but I've also had many theological discussions and spent a lot of time thinking about it.
I believe that out of the thousands of religions, Christianity is the most accurate. The other religions are a result of the different cultures and societies misunderstanding what they experienced. They saw angels and demons as their Pantheons. Christianity is the most accurate religion because it is derived from Jesus Christ, instead of prophets.

>>36236710
>Too late for that anyway.

Hmmm

>>36236748
Yeah, that's the vibe i got. Thanks for the clarification.

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I always though that Stirner's message was not to become slaves to your ideals. After all he hated Marx and his associates for having an extremely romanticized view of their ideology and not being pragmatic in the slightest.

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>this whole fucking thread lol

>>36236580
Yeah, I also agree that morality is to a certain degree biological and evolved. For example empathy and reciprocity are feelings and are likely evolved. But there is still no universal "right" outside the human mind. The universe does not give a shit.

>>36236627
>no replies
well then

>>36236777
>empathy
One of the least natural aspects of morality. Children who haven't been taught to share are incredibly egoistic. It is learned during the early years of being raised. Empathy has no benefit whatsoever, you can live in a group of people whitout being empathetic for each other, thus it has no evolutionary importance.

>>36236758
Same guy here. I think the whole point is to recognize that these ideas as not being outside our heads. If meaning and morality are ultimately in our heads, we can bend them to fit human needs and not be tools to the ideology in itself. The whole egoism thing is useful too because it allows people to take tribalism off the human pedestal. Human collectives can be very useful for people but also very destructive.

>>36236627
This. That's the reason political apathy is very dangerous for an egoist. Being a slave to your ideology is weak, but thinking other ideologies can't harm you and don't need your attention is naive. Political extremism is a tool to ensure one's well being in the long run. Following it for any other reason than that on the other hand, though is submitting to it and not better.

>>36236831
Look up mirror neurons. Humans have plenty of empathy for people inside their tribes or their offspring. It sustains reproduction. Humans are a social animal. Empathy allows people to understand people as well as make gains from long term human relationships. You need empathy to create that kind of trust and read people correctly.

>>36236752
The only thing that would make me stop worshipping God would be if he was the most powerful being in all of existence. And if He wasn't omnipotent, he wouldn't be God. That's just how I am, I guess.

>>36236874
Political extremism is summoning a demon and then expecting it to do your bidding instead of eating you. It never works out.
Ironic Stalinism, ironic nazism, all of them become real in the end.

I'm really amazed at how badly people read stirner and use it to just back up their own precognitive edge Lord biases. Stirner is like a Rorschach painting. It reveals what people already wanted.

>>36236627
Spooks are everything, concepts and people alike.

The true black pill is realizing that nothing is. If the red pill is "seeing the truth" than the black pill is understanding that there's no truth beyond the one you create.

Morality, right and wrong, religion, politics all don't matter as long as you understand that you're an individual and are only in the world as an individual.

Anything that is set on breaking your individuality is your enemy.

>>36236928
No, it's learning to separate is from ought

>>36236904
What I mean with political extremism is not wanting to give power to certain people but rather taking it away from people. Political power gives people power over me, so either I have all the political power or nobody has, otherwise it is harmful for me. And since the former is highly unlikely to happen, I have to go with supporting the end of people having the power to make decisions affecting me.

>>36236714
All religions are now valid, even spooky religions, including Satanism, Slendermanism, and MLPisms (rightly equivalent to Satanism) and any subcategories, all polarities are important, this is why spooks are usually classifiable, in a new foundational rule for society, nobody is a "spook" anymore, everyone is spook equally so everyone is now a normie, and that is a spook, hence why people's arguments on sexual tendencies are kind of invalid, preferences aren't a thing anymore, each individual on their basis is not to be judged since we know what the agenda of each religion is.

>>36236577
Depends, natural death or ungodly and untimely death caused by God?

>>36236495
I love you, wherever you are on earth, even if I hate you.

>>36236912
Stirner's work is rather vague which leaves room for a lot of interpetation.

The overall idea is what matters, which most people get more or less, but I guess the devil's in the details.

Mostly people seem to have different opinions on what Stirner's personal views were on the concepts he spoke of, i.e:
>morality is a spook
vs
>what morality's statues as a spook means for me

A good example from his better known sayings would be his comments on property, Stirner said:
>What I have in my power, that is my own. So long as I assert myself as holder, I am the proprietor of the thing. I do not step shyly back from your property, but look upon it always as my property, in which I respect nothing. Pray do the like with what you call my property
The idea people get is property is a spook, however whether you agree with him on it being a "kill or be killed" sort of game or something else is your own choice. As an ancap I strongly support the notion of privetly owned property despite it being a spook because it personally benifits me. Everything is a spook, the only things that matter in life are the ones that benifit you as an individual.

Stirner is pretty much ever 13-year olds first pill
You'll grow out of it eventually

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>>36237579
>t. moralist

>>36236182
I want to into philosophy
Max Stirner seems like the only philosopher who kinda agree with before having heard the dumbed down meme
is he accessible?

>posting philosophy that was "inspired" by fucking Hegel

Neck yourselfs you edgelords

>>36236714
are you the legendary fridgebro with the sour cream?

>>36238791
>t. Schopenhauer drone

you probably haven't even read Hegel