>2027 >falling for the programming meme

>>35991037
Yeah when you learn syntaxes of the languages you wanna use you can start making some simple stuff. But that doesnt mean there is nothing to learn, if there isnt anything to learn thatd mean i can immediately make a useful functioning program and start earning cash, thats kinda untrue. Its like saying if you know words to a language you can immediately speak it fluently, but languages have different sentence structures and orders, my language has 7 variations of every noun that you have to use properly depending on the sentence. The most programming you learn is by actually doing it, and not by learning syntaxes only.
Comparing a program to a power plant. There are plenty of solo programmers that make their own games that function well.
API libraries/programming environments and programs that can help you make a game by drag and dropping make shit super easy now thats true. But programming games is not the only thing programming can do, and you dont have programming environments that help you make some unusual program by drag and dropping.
To assume that everyone that works in a field feels guilty is abit too much in my opinion. In games for instance you have a shitton of casual players, and in real life you have workers that just wanna do the bare minimum and dip.
Job stability is a real issue though, there are so many people trying to get into the field that the company probably wont have a problem finding some other person to do your work, which is why you have to not be the person that does the minimum and then dips, be better than the next person.

There are still lots of people that did not realized that programming is skill by experience not skill by memorization.

>>35991509
Wewie anon, you're probably the only person who read that.

The takeaway of that post for me was that people tend to lose sight of the fact that programming is a tool, nothing more. What matters is what you do with it.

>Comparing a program to a power plant. There are plenty of solo programmers that make their own games that function well.
Yeah they make cute indie games. The power plant in this analogy would be games like Starcraft 2 or Fallout 4. The solo programmer's game is like building a cabin in your garden in comparison. Or a cute tiny house maybe.

>>35991691
Wew. I thought this thread would sink with zero replies.

>>35991774
Never underestimate the power of robots that have too many time and willingness to dig post my friendly robot

>>35991761
Yeah i agree with that comparison. Though thats mostly due to content, for a single programmer to create as much content as starcraft or fall out itd take 30 years, i dont doubt in their capability to make it, maybe with less graphical expertise but still.
And yeah i definitely agree it is a tool, you dont learn by just memorising syntaxes, same way you dont learn how to use a chainsaw by identifying it as a chainsaw. You learn by working.

>>35991761
Video games are not all programmers do, in fact, most programmers will never touch a game engine in their lives
Go back to >>>/v/

Can someone elaborate on that guilt society?
What do we feel guilty about?

>>35991037
>>35991509
Learning how to use different APIs is something that you can do to improve your skills once you've learned the basic idea. Many businesses trying to hire developers want someone with experience in a specific library.

>>35991761
Imo programming is like a toolbox, everybody can have that but it can't do anything by itself. You need the tools (the language) to do anything and without proper knowledge how to use it, it is also pretty useless. People with knowledge but limited experience to the tools can do something but not a really good one,but with few thousand hour experience he can build the world.

>>35991820
I was just continuing with the gaming idea but I didn't pick it. If it tickles your autism too hard, think about huge ass enterprise resource planning softs like SAP instead.

>>35991691
You don't need experience to get good at programming. You need a good understanding of combinatorics and formal language. From there you can tackle most programming problems easily

>>35991037
I'm a programmer, and I don't give two shits about it. Its not a hobby, I don't try to get better at it, I just do it at the office when people are looking or deadlines are coming.

I wanted to make video games in my spare time, but it turns out when you get home tired from work, the best you can handle is microwave dinner, a wank and some TV>

>>35991691
Programming is a discipline, not a skill. And it has serious CPU requirements.
Not every Joe off the street could, no matter how hard they try, be a good programmer.

>>35991846
Not being useful to others. Calvinists have always taught the only thing that matters in life is working even if you make no money and hate your job. America was founded on that and a lot of our culture derives from That.

>>35991880
A robot that still in college here. Just curious, to be a programmer did the employer usually require you to have a formal education in the topic (for example computer science) or did they mostly test your ability to understand behind it and dont really care about formal education?

>>35991911
How do I escape that feeling and take control of my life?

>>35991913
Never employed NEET here, but on researching getting programming employment, it seems a lot of employers much prefer to see your actual skills at work (like a portfolio of stuff you have made or contributed too) more than the formal education itself. Of course the formal education helps, but I would say that formal education is just icing on the cake. Someone who has been employed in the field can feel free to correct me.

>>35991913
I was in university when I got this job, and dropped out of university to continue working it, since I was literally about to kill myself from the pressure of doing both at the same time.
So formally I don't have any education in math, or IT.

My interview was a phone call to check if I could speak the language and if I sounded sane, then I got to their office and spent 3 hours making some simple blog and a few basic algorithms printing out a tree, then spent 3 months on minimum wage basically looking at the project and performing separate micro tasks on it, and then I got hired.

Note, I was already good enough at my craft to be able to sell my labor BEFORE I started looking for a job, and that this was my sixth attempt at it, all previous one failing during either the test, or the initial trial period phases. A lot of competition, and bosses seem to prefer guys with ties to guys like me (stereotypical metal tshirt neckbeard fatso animelord).

>>35991037
This was clearly written by an Indian

Because Indians can't write code

>>35991922
You realize that working hard is bulllshit and work smart. Find skills to pay the bills

>>35991913
It depends. Some places will toss your resume out if you don't have a bachelors (sometimes masters as well). Many companies also test your CS knowledge with algorithm and data structure problems. Of course there is books out there with common problems that you can memorize. For most programming jobs you will just be a cog in the machine and won't ever use that knowledge to solve problems at work.

>>35991846
guilt over not being a success who is contributing to the human race probably. The infinite growth model of technological capitalism is starting to break down yet we've been conditioned to derive our personal pride from our ability to continue on with the infinite growth. It's just not realistic anymore. All the corners of the globe have been claimed, all of humanity's information and progress is being logged into a giant repository of knowledge (the internet). It's ridiculous to think that we can all be contributing something new and worthwhile yet we all feel it's expected of us, at least the intelligent ones do. I envy the genetic trash who don't have to feel guilty about not living up to their potential, I really do.

>>35991950
I've got an interview in 4 hours. I've been studying entire books in a single day to keep sharp. How fucked am I? Also I've learned some combinatorics because it was highly recommended for programmers

>>35991985
Will a strong foundation in math help at all?

>>35991997
>entire books in a single day to keep sharp
Sounds like you'll do fine man. Just don't sperg out

>>35991931
>>35991950
>>35991985
Thx guys for the input. Im really considering having job in the computer science industrie, but did not have any idea about the requirement to be accepted.

>>35992016
Not really. I haven't encountered anything that required much math.

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>>35991037
this text is a fucking joke, yes you can learn language in 2-4 moths. You can even have course when you can build (app).But:
>you can't develop safe system
>you can't integrate sane testing and bug free software
>you will get down on every other more complex project.
>you will don't gave good code pracites, OOP

IT is changing everyday, new meme technology is born everyday, and you can't just say that you know it all or can learn in few moths.
I was working in corpo, small startup and now remotly .

It's nothing special, but earns well, that's fucking it, no batter or worse then math or exel fighting in finance

>>35992016
For the regular code monkey job you need just logic and some creative thinking.
Math for the real hardcore programming, that you are too dumb to do anyway.

>>35992094
>you will don't gave good code pracites, OOP
yeah...

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>>35992094
>good code practices

My smug grin when I have a several thousand lines long "service" file thats full of simple functions that I just include everywhere and call to instead of making proper objects.

Anyways, most projects optimize for speed of development, not speed of the project at work.
As in, most projects are selling tickets, managing warehouses, storing old news articles, and so on. They are just content management bases, a front for a MySQL database so the soccer mom operators can do complex work without realizing it.

>>35992204
>My smug grin when I have a several thousand lines long "service" file thats full of simple functions that I just include everywhere and call to instead of making proper objects.
lmao

>>35992204
Tfw you found your own old simple code you make for coding practice when you still newbies, and now you didn't understand anything from the code.

>>35992325
Nobody else but me understanding my pasta code is the main reason I still have a job.

>>35992340
So your job ended when someone figured your pasta code?

>>35992364
Nobody has figured it out yet. I am safe behind my unoptimized deprecated but functioning code.

>>35991037
I don't know if programming is that easy Anon. I study a subject with a heavy math point and I'm real good at it, but in the programming side subject I only pass with bad grades and hours of work.
I'm good in the math my college requires, but I'm literally horrible in terms of programming.

>>35992385
That is really a new meaning of used for backward compabilities

>>35992385
Shit. l need to do this

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>>35991037
>programming isn't math
>it's actually just engineering
>just use whatever you need bro

As a cc student looking to go into the software side of electrical engineering, what languages should i teach myself that will be relevant? I only know basic python from an intro cs course I had to take.

>>35992385
My Comp. Sci teachers would tell us stories about guys who did this. After they left nobody could figure out how their code worked so they were hired back but as a consultant making more money than they started.

>tfw too dumb to even steal code

God damn computers, why do they have to be so complicated?

>>35991037
Im gonna play games this week then kms because fuck working and studying

>>35992385
So you make your own job security by being incapable doing something properly. Genius.

>>35992480
One of my professors spoke about the time he was hired at the airport, and they were showing him the servers.
There was one server that nobody know what it did, but it ran, so they let it ran. I mean, at an airport, some unknown big stack computer runs and has ran for years, and you don't know what it does... how would you handle it?
They couldn't even connect to it, since it was some sort of custom connection ancient box. Probably doesn't run anything, but you can't risk it.

>programming is just a tool
It's a tool yes, but not "just" a tool. It's the most powerful thing available to people by several order of magnitudes. You don't have to be the next Zuckerberg to leverage software skills into some measure of economic agency and independence.

Software is eating the world. That's a fact, with immense ramifications that we're only beginning to understand. If you're not part of the revolution, you run the risk of being left behind.

Sorry for the propaganda-sounding speech. I just want to counterbalance some of the ignorant pessimism in this thread. If you're interested in the future, in general, or the future of tech, or your own future, read Breaking Smart. Especially if you're under like 30 and you don't have your shit together.

>>35992565
I mean, it works. And if I weren't there, it wouldn't work for long.
Whats the issue here, officer?

>tfw too dumb to learn programming

>>35992617
Well, i am praising your cleverness in making your own job security.

It's not just programming, it applies to all IT (and probably all fields like teaching, healthcare, math etc).

It all comes down to two things. Affinity to IT (which is not genetics or some magical shit, it' just how good are you at logical thinking, math, solving problems, so just generally how are you approach problems and how well can you move forward and learn from your mistakes) and practice / experience. Thos """"hacker""""" you hear about are not some otherwordly creatures, just nerds who are really interested how shit works and just try everything they can think of and devote their whole time to the craft. No different from great composers or craftsmen, or mathematicans.

Programming is no harder to learn than anything that requires creativity and logical thinking and foresight of what you want to achieve. It's the same as construction. You can teach someone how to build blocks on top of each other, but that doesn't mean he can build a house.

Programming is no magic.

fools

programming =/= comp sci

try optimizing multi threaded applications with syntax.

>>35992623
Same, I heard that Python is easy to learn but it still too hard for me to understand it.

>>35992717
Why would I do that, when I could be doing 1% of the work for 30% of the pay?

>>35992822
soon you wont even get hired if you dont specialize.

>>35992844
Yeah yeah, and robots will be writing code in 1996, just you wait.

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> TFW no haskell.
> TFW no Unix.
> TFW no Node.JS
> TFW no Django.
> TFW no machine code.
> TFW no ruby.
> TFW no rails.
> TFW no SASS.
> TFW no LESS.
> TFW no LISP
> TFW no laravel.
> TFW no Angular JS.
> TFW no Angular 2.
> TFW no React.JS
> TFW no Jquery.
> TFW barely any JS at all

Will I ever make it bros?

>>35991037
There are some good points in this, but the very first sentence is patently false.

A reasonable analogy would be "there's nothing more to learn in vehicular engineering: we already know how to build cars".

>>35991037
>dunning-kruger: the post

Here's something that makes me nervous as shit. Everything moving closer and closer to tech just being self-programming or perhaps user interfaces that are so intuitive yet with a backend so powerful normies can just build anything by saying "i want an app that does x." Here's something I read yesterday that kept me up all night:

> There has been a clear trend in web development the past few years where more of our apps' logic is shifted to the frontend.

Shit like that gives me a heart attack. I mean how far to the frontend can things get before there's a simple tablet interface that can build any app your heart desires by just pointing to things? WHAT DO WE DO THEN?

>fell for the "programming is just logic it comes easy to autists" meme
There's hundreds of hours I'll never get back.

>>35992857
the fact that robots are not just shows how complex software engineering is.

>>35993010
We've been automating away coding for years.

>>35992916
>but the very first sentence is patently false.
So the central thesis is false?

https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/22900

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>tfw nobody to program a comfy 90s 2D-JRPG with improved gameplay with

>>35992995
>I mean how far to the frontend can things get before there's a simple tablet interface that can build any app your heart desires by just pointing to things?
This will eventually happen, but it is many years into the future. Most contracts require way too many specific things for these do-it-yourself lego-programs to have any major impact on the market right now.

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>>35993068
'There are some good points in this' may have been overstatement.

>>35991037
TL;DR, i only read parts of it

but this stuff only applies to very low quality web and mobile apps and similarly simple GUI applications. good luck making anything more complex like a photoshop-tier image editing software or a D44M-tier ground-breaking video game with your basic ass "skills"

>>35992995
if you knew CS you would understand it is just the latest developments in software architechture

>>35991990
Lol you shouldn't. Those are the people who are making breakthroughs, do you really think Bill Gates and Zuckaberg reveled in guilt over not meeting some self-imposed "societal" standard? They just did what they felt would make them money and could enjoy doing.

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>>35992866
>missed out Assembly
Go forth and make your magnum opus, only to have its sequels destroyed by corporate greed:

>>35992866
At least you got C and C++

>>35991037

Legitimately one of the stupidest things I've ever read

>>35993094
I would help you, but I started programming 2 weeks ago.

>>35991037
>that succubi filter

>>35993967
>i would help, but i won't

Thanks.

>>35993130
The problem with the Lego-like program is, how do you know that your lego piece is the strongest lego on the universe? Can it be another more powerful lego piece?