Communism thread

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>He's a bitch pinko or Commie
>He isn't a Corporatist/Peronist/Falangist

Absolutely air-droppable.

>>35584313
>communist calling others bootlickers
AHAAHAHAAHAHA you need a nanny state to tell you what to do but the other people are the sheep lmao

>>35584313
Of all political affiliations, communism is the most cucked one.
>muh love humanity
>I'll give other people my shit for free!
>surely everyone will cuck for me as I cuck for them

can confirm; my wife's bf said i should embrace communism and i've enjoyed it ever since

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>>35584466
>he thinks communism is a nanny state.

Communism is when workers control the means of production, silly.

>>35584466
>communism is muh gubmint
fox news tier

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hello comrades :7)

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>>35584519
Trump is the commie candidate, don't be a faggot

>>35584520
So like with Mao and Stalin, right?

>>35584313
I like how /pol/ is incapable of arguing against socialism in a way that doesn't make them sound like 60 year old fox news fanatics. So I respect that most of them don't even try and just spout the saltiest cuck memes they can muster.

hi leftypol, grow up

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communism is for spooked individuals. Read stirner.

>>35584518
Read a book. I recommend Capital by Marx and Engels. Communism is simply when workers control the means of production. There is a difference between private and personal property and you will be able to keep your dragon dildos and sex dolls under communism.

>>35584519
back to your containment board.

>>35584570
Those were state capitalists, only tankies defend those

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>>35584313
r9k is already on the communist train

>>35584594

The ego is the biggest spook of all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2dKaqXeCsI

>>35584595
Fair enough.

Original comments are a capitalist construct.

>>35584553
This picture is amazing originsja

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>>35584595

>state capitalists

>tankies

REEEEE! Those are slurs, shitlord!

The correct term is Comcap.

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>>35584648
t.lsd junkie

>>35584595
Back to your containment website, leftypol

>>35584703
It's state capitalist. And if anything, it was controlled economy by the "Communist" governments. Nazis practiced state capitalism.

>tfw leftypol thinks it's relevant enough to exert its influence on other boards

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>15 year old commiecucks

>>35584770
You mean other sites. Leftypol's hive is on channel 4 by 2.

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>anything but anarchist government
Anarchism has no censorship, no mass corporate culture to degrade human culture, no wage slavery, and all labour is in a free association of voluntary mutual aid. No other society puts neets on a fair level with those who work either, anarchism does because the well-being of all does mean "of all."

>>35584518
>>I'll give other people my shit for free!
Literally the entire concept of capitalism and its wage labour, which requires the worker to be giving away much of his production for the "right" to be employed by the unproductive. Unless you are a very rich man who has made an empire off the backs of thousands of employees, you have nothing to give, and the world to gain.

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>>35584780
that really jogs the noggin

>>35584817
> anarchist government
U w0t, m8.

>>35584817
Anarchism is retarded because it ignores the fact that humans steal, kill, and try to consolidate power, even in small social groups.

>>35584313
Communism is great! There were a lot of cool communist countries like USSR, DPRK, Cambodia, Venezuela.

Anyone else afraid that once Trump's failure is complete, people will just go back to letting the neoliberals and technocrats do whatever? The US left has little going for it except Bernie Sanders who could die literally any minute, and some temporary sympathy for radicalism from the type of bourgies who tried to play the middle on BLM. The rest is just division and apathy as far as the eye can see.

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>>35584837
>When you warned the world about the future and they killed you for it, now they regret it

>>35584780
>wanting a big government that controls every aspect of the economy and many of your personal life
>somehow less cucked than wanting absolute autonomy and self determination with the only rules you must follow being those of the local community you voluntarily participate in
This makes no sense. Unless you think you, yourself, would be in exclusive control of the state/capitalist/fascist power, which of course you would not be.

>>35584839
Anarchism is not merely lelchaozrulezmeme, that's an unfortunate and intentional misinterpretation, from Proudhon to Kropotkin to Bakunin, Anarchists have always believed in having some form of government, the idea though is a stateless government (we define state by its exclusive right to use force), a non-hierarchical decentralized directly democratic government is Anarchism. It always has been a flat, horizontal, voluntary, cooperation government, not once you must participate in due to some "social contract" but one where the people are merely agreeing to aid each other in a mutually beneficial way.

>>35584863
You for one, have this idea in your head that with no need to steal, people would still steal for the thrill of it, which may happen very rarely but not enough to really threaten society. As for murder, we do have militias and anarchist law, (seriously, look up anarchist law), and as for power? You, the individual, can have no more power than you would under an Anarchist system, which offers the maximum amount of self-determination for any individual. In fact this is the whole point of its creation.

>>35584313
Go live in a hippy cult then faggot

>crossposting at all
>crossposting from leftypol of all places
Absolutely cuckatoo-tier.
Leftypol is where /lit/fags go to tell themselves they're not as pathetic as robots. (hint: you're failing)

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>>35584983
I show you these points here.
>>35584936
And ask you to read up on the Spanish civil war.

is communalism the way forward comrades?

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>>35585002
I'm a /0040/ poster.

>>35584936
What you've just described is minarchism, not anarchism. The very etymology of the world "anarchy" suggests that there is no authority. I support the idea of small government, though.

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You can decide whether or not communism is for you by asking this question.

>What right do I have to others hard work?

In reality Republican democracy continues to be the biggest protector of human freedoms in the modern world.

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>>35584929
>JustHitlerThings.tumblr.com
wtf I hate jews now

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>>35585053
>>What right do I have to others hard work?
This right here, is the very foundation of wage labour, and any socialist ideology from communism to anarchism all advocate for all working people having true ownership over not only their own production, but their own means of production.
Do you not understand what wage labour is?

>>35585053
>What right do I have to others hard work?
I have no right to have a result of other people's work unless we've made an agreemnt to exchange something for the said result.

>>35584929
>warned about the future
>of cinema
That's some weak ass reasoning to support Hitler, fyi

>communism responsoble for 66 million total deaths
>totally acceptable for kids on the internet to parrot as a mainstream meme
>national socialism responsible for 11 million deaths
>"KILL ALL NAZIS, I DONT CARE IF ITS AN INTERNET JOKE, KILL ALL WHITE MEN!!!"

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>>35585088
And what if that agreement is based on a lifetime of brainwashing, coercion, and the fact there truly is no alternative and they must say yes, if not to you, to somebody else, and in no situation can they not be roped into a situation where they are stolen from through the process of working for a wage?

>>35585104
>communism responsoble for 66 million total deaths

Should've killed 100 million.

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>>35584936
Fascism=/=less freedom, people in nazi Germany had more freedom than any communist regime ever. Also the purpose of fascism is to make your society as great as possible no matter what, if it's necessary to ban the "freedom" to be a degenerate to achieve this greatness so be it
>>35585057
>Implying nazism has lost the ideological war
Not until the last white man dies

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>>35585045
No, it's anarchism, more specifically it's anarchist communism. I know this because I have read anarchist communist theorists, the original one even, Kropotkin, and this is what was described. The word "anarchy" only brings up this image in your mind because you were taught to believe so, but look at the word itself more carefully.
>ANti-hierARCHY.
>ANARCHY.
As well as the actual books, that would be useful. The difference between minarchism and anarchism is minarchism does not seek an end to wage exploitation, and is not voluntary, it still forces each individual to participate.

>>35584929
Adorno predicted that this would happen as well, but he had theory to back it up, and he was Jewish. Stop being fucking retarded.

>>35585084
So what keeps others from selling their own hard work? Isn't it theirs to do whatever they'd like with?

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>>35585104
>he thinks communism killed anyless then 500 million

fucking goyim

>>35585162
>fascism wasn't less free
>we just censored expression and banned alternative thoughts

>>35585104
>66 million
I haven't argued communism online in a while but that seems like lowball. You should at least hold communism responsible for every person killed by the US military since WWII, after all without the soviet boogeyman how would they have funded enough weapons to kill 30 million civilians? (not to mention actual combatants)

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>>35585162
>a large government that has total control over your economic life and major control over your personal life
>that is known historically for its mass slaughter, war, censorship, imprisonment, and authoritarian government
>defined by its authoritarian class collaborationist government that seeks to make both the individual and the collectives within a nation, both serve the nation above all else
>not less freedom
You are delusional and should probably read the bread book.

>>35585184
Nothing except the exact same thing keeping you from willing making yourself a peasant farmer for a feudal lord. Why would you allow yourself to be stolen from when you could work cooperatively /with/ the other workers, instead of /for/ the boss?

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>>35585104
>Implying nazism has lost the ideological war

>bring hitler back to life
>"your legend is still carried on by autists on a mongolian goldfish breeding image board"
>he takes 2 cyanide capsules this time

>>35585229
Don't forget Communist-induced famines like with what Stalin did in Ukraine and Mao did to farmers.
>>35585233
I dunno, why would I want to go back into a barter system where the arts have no real value and wouldn't be able to feed you?

>>35585233

>Reddit and Memey

Kill yourself cuck

fuck. >>35585266 was for >>35585162

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Communists are literally retarded, indoctrinated by the marxist education system.

It's really sad to see friends be so blinded by the false song of Globalism and Communism.

In the modern day Republican democracys provide the highest level of human advancment, standards of living and overall happyness.

Communism on the otherhand is a flawed fantasy ideology that always ends in totalitarian police states.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE OCCASION IN HISTORY WHERE COMMUNISM HAS SUCCEEDED IN BOOSTING THE STANDARD OF LIVING!

>>35585225
>>35585233
Alright allow me to rephrase, freedom is self-destructive to society and it must be restricted, how is it restricted is what marks the difference between a great society (fascist regime lead by an intelligent man and advisors) and a shit one (anarchy, egalitarian ideals, forced equality)
>>35585266
Ad hominem

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>>35585162
>implying Hitler didn't ban unions and replaced them with bourg nationalized unions that worked in favor of the ruling class
>implying Hitler didn't privatize so much shit that an entirely new word was created because of it
really activates the almonds

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>>35585278
It would not be a barter system, there is a lot of incredibly detailed information out there on mutual aid and gift economies, what anarchist communism runs on. It would not be a barter system. As well as that, the idea is like I already previously said "the well-being of all" this would ensure all men, even neets, would have their needs, and artists would be free to work exclusively on their art while not needing to hold down a job to survive.
Or you could still have a market, and act just like capitalism but without the hierarchy of the workplace, it'd be like nothing except coops instead of corporations, that one is called mutualism, instead of anarchist communism, and I believe it will eventually lead into a gift economy. (look it up, a gift economy is likely not what you immediately assume it to be)
So I ask again, why allow yourself to be exploited for the benefit of the elite, and why not seek total self control?

>>35585304
>no argument
>the guy who wants absolute control over his life is a cuck
>while the guy who wants to give up all control is not
Sad. I remember when the chans hated you moralfags.

>>35585333
communism has never been achieved and you can meme that it has all you want but it doesnt make it true

>>35585355
>implying implications
Shove it up your shithole
>>35585356
So you're saying that a sprig of wheat is as valuable as baked bread?

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>>35585335
Freedom has been, historically, the biggest factor in prosperity and all forms of progress. You have this delusion that not forcing economic inequality, is suddenly forcing everyone to act the same, and this is of course untrue. Read the bread book.

>>35585111
> there truly is no alternative and they must say yes, if not to you, to somebody else
Why won't they unite to live in a commune? Nobody restricts that in our society, and technological progress allows growing food more easily.

> they are stolen from through the process of working for a wage
Yet again, they are doing it voluntary. They might start freelance working, which means they own their means of production. They might join a non-hierarchial society, of which there are plenty.

>>35585172
The word "anarchy" comes from the Greek word "archos" meaning "ruler", with a prefix "an" signalising lack of. Therefore, it means having no ruler.

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>>35585373
What a solid argument you have there

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>>35585333
>indoctrinated by the marxist education system.

>>35585335
>freedom is slavery
>war is peace
>ignorance is strength
If fascist societies were great societies they wouldnt crumble so easily.

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>>35585333
>indoctrinated by the marxist education system
I was literally a fascist before becoming a communist. I became a communist because I actually read the source works of leftists.

My school did nothing but paint communist in a terrible light and I live in the more ''cucky'' nations as you would call it.

>>35585376
>They might start freelance working

you live in some kind of fantasy world kiddo

>>35585374
>Freedom has been, historically, the biggest factor in prosperity
Nope
>Julius Caesar
>Napoleon Bonaparte
>Adolf Hitler
These three men turned their good societies into absolute world powers that came close to rule the world and made great advances in science, technology and art, all under a right wing authoritarian regime
Too much freedom can only mean the destruction of your society

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>>35585373
It depends on the situation, if you're talking use-value then in some situation the wheat will be more useful than the bread, but no, generally I'm not saying the have the same exchange-value. Why must you try to strawman this position and not just accept that it's been arguing for your freedom, for the end of your exploitation, and for the only truly liberated society possible?

>>35585376
They have attempted to unite and live in a commune, actually. The Soviets murdered us. The Mexican government murdered us. The Korean government murdered us. The American government murdered us. The French government murdered us. The Spanish government murdered us. We keep getting killed, and as for the modern day, we exist in a reality where we are pumped full of brainwashing made specifically to drive people away from this sort of thing, from the cradle to the grave.

It is not voluntary, if it is coercion and if there is no other alternative and if you do anything else you will be murdered or denied your basic human needs. That is far from voluntary, that is "voluntary". If they start freelance working, good for them, they would never begin to give up their power and rights just because some dude asked "Hey can I be your boss? I won't do anything but, I'll hire you full-time."

As well as that, having no ruler is quite in part what a fully democratic decentralized anarchist communist government is. As these people would be cooperating purely out of the mutual benefit it gives them, and no single one would rule another, and the collective would not rule any individual, as it would be an entirely voluntary free association of labour.

>>35585452
And what of the progress made in the self proclaimed free united states?

>>35584921

Not a single one of those countries achieved communism, though. The closest they came was the day of Stalin's death.

Of course, "It wasn't real so let's do it again," is a hilarious meme, but it's also part of the core theory. Marx-Engels imagined a post-industrial, post-capitalist society, and predicted this starting in the rich west. If you even mentioned China you'd have been laughed out of his mothers basement.

But he's not proven wrong or stupid yet. He just didn't think long enough. Communism is ideal post-energy, post-singularity.

After Destalinization and the end of the Gulag in the 60's, the USSR was a perfectly sane generic authoritarian state. That her dissolution ushered in the greatest depression in history, that her nukes were always defensive in doctrine (unlike today), the replacement of socialist nationalist guerrilla movements with international terrorists, the stagnant dictatorships in central Asia, the opiate boom, the bombs on Yugoslavia and Iraq and rapid demographic changes in Germany, Sweden, France, and UK are all evidence that the Cold War was in fact a great, historically unique time of peace and exponential economic growth worldwide.

>>35585413
>crumble so easily
>literally took the combined forces of the most powerful nations on earth to beat one fascist country

>>35585477
>combined forces

lol American education


USSR basically single handedly beat them back

>>35585477
what about italy

>>35585477
Also

>One fascist country

It was like ten

>Spain
>Japan
>Italy
And several other minor fascist nations

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I don't browse r9k often, but seeing this thread made me happy. I hope you robots can rise above and join the working class in overthrowing capitalist pigs.

>>35585477
>Japan Italy and Germany
>one country
M8....

>>35584817
I'm reading the bread book rn. It's good stuff.

>Bread book

?????

>>35585506
what is lend-lease

>>35585512
>>35585477
Don't forget America and Japan autistically screeching at each other in the pacific during that though. America won the war :^)

>>35585526
It really is. Kropotkin has a nicer personality in his stuff than others. Marx made me feel like I was in school again.

>>35585520
If I saw this retarded shit in my school I'd burn the place down. Commies truly are subhuman filth.

>>35585561

check out this edgy bootlicker everyone

>>35585556
It's a stupid joke, sorry. The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin. It lays out his conception of anarchist communism.

>>35585452
>too much freedom destroys society
>hitlers regime didn't distroy societies

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>>35585556
The Conquest of Bread by Pyotr Kropotkin. It's an essential book for understanding Anarchist Communism. Sorta fun too in my opinion.

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>>35584921
>Cambodia
Pol pot was the greatest leader of all time. He was an ironic poet. Eat shit.

>>35585574

oh that's fine, i just didn't know what it was

>>35585587
>you would totally download bread if you could

>>35585587
>Pyotr Kropotkin
>Pyotr
Pure revisionism comrade

>>35585592
>holiday in Cambodia
Dont forget to pack a wife

>>35585560
Yeah Marx may or may not be right in his economic analyses of capitalism, but what I've read from him doesn't really get me excited about revolutionary socialism like Kropotkin has.

>>35585614
>people say marx
>when they really mean engles

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>>35585561
>in my school
literally doxing yourself as underage
MODS

>>35585619
Capital (vol. 1, at least) is all Marx

>>35585468
>And what of the progress made in the self proclaimed free united states?
Culture, not "freedom". The US used to be mostly European and had mostly a European culture. Back then you didn;t even had to restrict people's freedom because they did that for themselves, certainly a golden age but that ship has sailed a long time ago and it can never happen again. Certain people has managed to poison and destroy European culture and greatness and now everybody wants more retarded "freedom" so that they can cut their dicks off or kill babies instead of wanting freedom to create
Also may it be known that fascism is by definition anti-capitalist too and that the bolshevik hypocrites betrayed their god Lenin by siding with the US. This is why i lmao at commies who celebrate Hitler's defeat

>>35585632
>Certain people

oh brother here we go

he's like a caricature of himself

>>35584520
I've got a pretty limited understanding of communism, but that statement always seems completely retarded to me whenever it's brought up.

Controlling the means of production would mean literally fucking nothing at all when the state controls all of the food and wealth.

If no one person or entity owns a particular factory which has the express purpose of mass producing dildo's, why would a bunch of potentially starving peasants wander into this "community owned" factory just to start suddenly producing dildo's? There's zero incentive involved, other than they might personally want some dildo's for themselves. But even if they take the time to make them, they wouldn't own the dildo's as property of their own. It would be owned by the state.

Why would anyone do literally anything under communism, except in the rare case of personal benefit or convenience? Because even then, the materials or products you create wouldn't even belong to you.

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>communism has never been tri-
>mfw

>>35585452
Yet all three fucked up greatly. And as a someone who lives in an authoritarian country(Russia) I say that I do not care about how "great" the society is if most of the people there are poor and freedom of expressing one's views is limited.

>>35585471
> China
How is China considered leftist? Most of the country's economy is in private sector. It's a right authoritarian state.

>>35585506
USSR actually fought the most, but I doubt that it would survive without lend-lease. And the western front definitely sped up the process of finishing the Reich.

>>35585468
I see what are you trying to say. But nobody's killing people living in communes nowadays. And management are actually working on organizing the processes in comapnies (and most of them are part of proletariat since they do not own means of production). It should also be taken in account that to start a company ne needs to spend an amount of capital, so it is fair that someone who've spent money on creating or buying means of production recieves part of the results of work on them.

>>35585520
You're working class if you're not a capitalist, whether you're a socialist or not. Never forget that your enemy is capitalism, not fellow workers who mistakenly support capitalism.

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>>35585632
>Certain people has managed to poison and destroy European culture and greatness and now everybody wants more retarded "freedom"

Sorta like how the Jews ruined Japan and reduced men to sexual herbivores because of the long working hours and increased cost of living? :)

It's called capitalism if you weren't aware at this point

>>35585632
Nazi scum,
Nazi scum,
Nazi scum,
FUCK OFF!

>>35585651
The state in marxist-communism is supposed to be a temporary transitional state called socialism that eventually reaches communism, which is actually stateless.

>>35585660
They will kill us if we reject the authority of their state. They do still bother the EZLN, and Rojava has been called a terrorist organization by the united states, and is being shelled by Turkey, despite doing most of the fighting against ISIS.
The initial capital must come from somewhere though, and only rarely is it through hard work and saving, and even when it does that will only create a local small business, not a wal-mart, that would require generations of people getting an advantage due to the risk of their ancestor and the work of their employee.

>>35585632
>Certain people

Oh brother here we go. Another round of factless infographics about da jooz and niggers.

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>>35585587
>"anarcho communism"
>implying communism isn't inherently authoritarian

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>>35585726
>stateless, classless, moneyless
>a voluntary free association of labour
>authoritarian
I think you are confused, friend.

Communism is the idea that the working class would contribute all of it's time and effort into sustaining society, and all individuals will be provided their essential necessities.

Communism and anarchism belong in the same basket for thy are self-masturbatory appreciations for an ideal state of affairs in the handle of disputes between people of a public.

A real man's political philosophy is ultra-nationalist ethnocentrism. Diehard fanaticism is way more theatrical and beautiful.

Most commies espouse equity, amnesty, and peace, which puts them in hippy garbage tier. To actually be of a reputable status, one must have hard power, and so in entails that one must appreciate constitution and mutually assured constituents.

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>>35585648
>>35585712
>N-nothing's going on goys- i mean guys! (((We))) have no influence on anything eventhoug we own and run everything! Anti-semite! Remember the six gorillions!
>>35585660
If your "views" are harmful to the perfect society they should be silenced by all means
>>35585684
...Aaaand capitalism is a Jewish invention, whelp another coincidence i guess. I repeat that fascism is anti-capitalist
>>35585707
*Autistic screeching*

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>>35585775
>I repeat that fascism is anti-capitalist
OK.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
- Benito Mussolini

>>35585711
>actually stateless

That sounds even fucking worse, like complete anarchy. It would eventually just turn into Mexico, where the lawless strips of land are lorded over by the cartels like it's the feudal ages.

What's to keep someone from just sitting on top of massive amounts of essential resources, and surrounding himself with followers who can benefit from that?

Is communism's end goal just to go back to the tribal era? Sounds like you'd get a few Immortan Joe's who would just ruin it for everyone else.

>>35585773
>contribute all of it's time and effort into sustaining society
Absolutely false. You really just made that up. We were the ones who gave you your 5 day work week instead of 6 days, we were the ones who have always been pushing for less work hours, and when we are in charge, nobody will be forced to do anything. The reality of the world is not a power masturbation fantasy, but a quick path to death and we may as well enjoy it.

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>>35585775
> the society is perfect
> it can be harmed by words

oh boy i sure do love starving

>>35585805
You should read my previous posts. There is such a thing as anarchist government and anarchist law. ( >>35584817 )
The biggest thing that would prevent your hypothetical, is that those people he enlists would have to willingly allow themselves to be exploited, and put in a tremendous amount of work to create the systems that allow them to be exploited, instead of just living their lives.

>>35585839
>>35585805
I'm saying end goal marxist-communism could reasonably be called anarchistic, by the way, is why I'm saying just read my posts about anarchism. Of course the transitional period of state socialism is not though.

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>>35585837
>we wuz starvin n sheit

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>>35585775
>fascism is anti-capitalist
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

>>35585775
>meme arrows
>Jew meme
>authoritarian meme response
>more Jew meme
>fascist meme
>frog meme
How does it feel to be a walking meme

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>>35585837
Because that's exclusive to the marxists, right?

>>35585804
By anticapitalist he of course means something completely different can't you read between the lines? Jews!

>>35585898
yeah because the soviet union totally came back from their stravation
oh wait

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>>35585726
Private property can only exist by being backed by state violence. It is a fundamental legal fiction. No philosopher has ever solved the initial acquisition problem. Therefore it is the libertarian position to reject any claim of non-personal ownership over land.
With only individuals amassing what they earn through skillful work and what they use, it would be impossible for significant disparities in wealth to occur.

>>35585767
>Implying this fantasy society could ever exist
Commies are so delusional and naive
>>35585804
First of all Mussolini was a fucking retard and second of all if you think Hitler was in any way a capitalist you're a retard and don't know what you're talking about. In nazi Germany corporations were allowed to exist but were kept well under control unlike a capitalist country like the US or China (yes, capitalist). Always keeping the well-being of the society as first priority
>>35585822
No such thing as a little enemy and a cigrrette butt can burn down the biggest forest. You can poison the individual with harmful ideals and by extension the society
>>35585893
>Getting it wrong
The word does come from nazi Germany but it was used on a much different way than now. By "privatization" Hitler meant that people could own some property as their own as long as they didn't represented any harm to the society/economy and the state could in any moment take their private property if the individual is abusing his private property and harming the society
Privatization now means that a Jewish banker can just buy your whole fucking country and all within it. This is the difference between NATIONAL socialism and INTERNATIONAL (GLOBALIST) socialism

>>35585808
> We were the ones who gave you your 5 day work week instead of 6 days

Everyone works everyday, even the fucking animals.

>we were the ones who have always been pushing for less work hours

Inventors and engineers fashion ways to take the taxing labor and burden of subsistence, it is the feature of human ingenuity.

> when we are in charge, nobody will be forced to do anything.

People will still trade there labor and skills, independent if you and your associates are in charge. Everyone has something to give and get; power, fame, utility, and luxury.

>The reality of the world is not a power masturbation fantasy, but a quick path to death and we may as well enjoy it.

The reality of the world is that of the billions of people who ever lived, half of them died from malaria. So if you are going to usher forward a appreciable standard of living for all people, why don't you start by killing a mosquito? Even then, you know you can't make life enjoyable, because your idea of enjoyable implicit requires you to dictate the lives of many.

There will always be conflict, and that living in itself, is to struggle.

>>35584595
>Communism is simply when workers control the means of production.
This is a bad idea because workers are typically idiots.

>>35586055

the conceit is that the ownership class is any smarter.

protip: they're not. there's no one to hand your life over to safely.

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Hitler blown the F out

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>>35586027
Everything has to work. The difference is that animals get the full product of their labor. Under capitalism, the boss is the middle man; you make a product that he owns, and he gives you a fraction of the real market value back as a wage (this is how he makes a profit). We simply propose to cut out the middleman.

>>35586118
How did he break the manlet curse?

>>35586131
I dunno. I'm also taller than both my parents.

>>35586024
>In nazi Germany corporations were allowed to exist but were kept well under control
I wonder what nazi Germany would look like present day. It fell too early to indicate anything except poor management.
>You can poison the individual with harmful ideals and by extension the society
Nazis were wonderful propagandists.
>people could own some property as their own as long as they didn't represented any harm to the society/economy and the state could in any moment take their private property
And who determines that? I'm sure an unbiased party exists in an authoritarian state, and my land wouldn't be taken for political reasons or thought crimes.

>>35586148
I'm shorter than my father and my grandma is taller than me.

>>35586149
>I wonder what nazi Germany would look like present day. It fell too early to indicate anything except poor management
Poor management indeed. Hitler started like Julius Caesar reincarnated but hen he lost it thanks to his retarded doctor
>Nazis were wonderful propagandists
Yes they were, are you implying this is a bad thing?
>And who determines that? I'm sure an unbiased party exists in an authoritarian state, and my land wouldn't be taken for political reasons or thought crimes
The Fuhrer/King and he will be fair with you

>>35586149
Germany up before the war started had become the most prosperous and productive nation on earth to the point that they had working jets roughly 70 years ago, while the US was going through the great depression.

What about this indicates poor management to you?

The idea behind National Socialism was that only those born in Germany would be allowed to have an impact on Germany society, or be able to own assets within Germany. Outsiders were treated under law as alien.

>>35586245
>yesthey were, are you implying this is a bad thing?
Are you implying propaganda is a good thing? Spreading misinformation and lies?
>Fuhrer/King and he will be fair with you
I'll pass, thanks.

>>35586118
You don't need to tell me how nonsensical financial systems are. If it were fair, there would be simply an exchange rate. Buyer seller negotiate a settlement for goods and services required, options are offer on failure for goods to make it to market (act of god), interest and profit solemnly ever make sense in lieu that the fungible assets in someone's possession become demanded.

The name of the game in the free market is how well you can gain such returns, Fortunes are made and lost, through revolution, disaster, and simple shortsightedness. Some people are born into it, some born others into it.

You might like the unabomber's manifesto

>>35586258
>up before the war they were prosperous
>building a military surplus
Sinking all your resources into a war, and then mismanaging that war. Alot of corporations are really successful, until they're not.

>>35586294
>misinformation and lies
Whoa where did that came from? Propaganda is nothing but social publicity, it can be both truthful and deceitful just like anything in life
>I'll pass
Of course you do, the thought of losing "freedom" scares everyone of course but let me tell you that you will find more freedom under a good King than any democratic society
Democracy is the weakest point in any society

>>35586118
Do you genuinely believe that tens of thousands of factory workers all across America would just decide all by themselves to produce computers? To the point it would satisfy the demands of the entire population of the country?

Could be any other product, really. Genuine question.

>>35586401
> America
> produce computers
Most of the computer factories are in China and other eastern Asia states.

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remember kids, real communism has never been tried.
even though it was given a shot and failed miserably because the government/leaders took almost everything and left people with barely anything
sure capitalism isn't that good, but aside from a ruling system relating to monarchy, is there any other system that's not a meme and would realistically work?

>>35586401
Automation will help meet demand by reducing scarcity.

>>35585625
>>35585573
>2017
>legitimately believing communism works
Are people actually this autistic?

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>>35586024
>Hitler meant that people could own some property as their own as long as they didn't represented any harm to the society/economy and the state could in any moment take their private property if the individual is abusing his private property and harming the society

And 0 thought went into the workers who worked long hours and got a meager sum of reward in returrn. Congratulations, you swapped one ruling class with an another and rebranded the name. Capitalism is capitalism is capitalism and the conditions he wrought upon was a precursor to the great war that would make Europe crash and burn.

FYI, Hitler still co-operated with corporate owners and bankers so as to ensure their market wouldn't crash (he ensured the workers they would get bigly rewards, which never happened of course, because of the war)

>>35586331
Germany sent 17 proposals of peace, including a 19 point peace plan to Britain, which Britain didn't show to the public and rejected, probably because the public would have agreed to it.

Germany also allowed the entire British Royal Navy to leave Dunkirk, despite having been provided with the opportunity to destroy the navy irreparably, likely out of an act of good faith to still pursue peace.

Yeah, Germany did fuck up. They didn't count on the Allies being so intent on completely eradicating a nation which separated itself from the international central banking system.

>>35586372
>let me tell you that you will find more freedom under a good King than any democratic society
Kings are figureheads. Hitler wasn't a king. I have no love for authoritarianism. My only want in life is autonomy, and authoritarianism stands in direct opposition to that.
>propaganda is good
I would disagree, but I will agree that there is good (as in well done) propaganda.

>>35586536
>They didn't count on the Allies being so intent on completely eradicating a nation which separated itself from the international central banking system
Yeah, I'm sure that's what it was. Not invading other countries and instigating a global conflict, right? And I'm sure the ussr was totally down with the international central banking system, and that American intervention didn't occur until they were directly attacked.

>>35586534
You absolutely cannot compare Germany's working class with the USA's or the soviet at all. While the workers were not probably getting paid millions they were not in any way, shape or form the slaves American or Russian workers were. Also the money would go up not to the bags of the rich or the government but to the country in a multitude of ways: infraestructure, art, education, science, technology and yes later for war, a war that was necessary for the survival of that great Germany of the time

Commie entitlement is crazy, what the fuck do you want? Everybody to be rich? This is just not possible. I'm completely against enslavement but you always ask for more, people lived great lives in Germany. The poor were the retards and the lazy, hard working but simple people were in the middle class and scientists, engineers and talented artists were the rich as it should be. This is what fascism is all about: justice

>>35586601
>My only want in life is autonomy
And i assume you also want in life to be in a beautiful great first world country with tons of commodities and work as little as possible to get them right?
The only way you can have an autonomous society is a primitive one, this is not necessarily a bad thing but it's something you should keep in mind

>>35586659
>The poor were the retards and the lazy, hard working but simple people were in the middle class and scientists, engineers and talented artists were the rich as it should be. This is what fascism is all about: justice
Mmm taste that propaganda. Of course if your art was politically provocative or not in line with nazi standards, you were no longer an artist. And the scientists and engineers were of course state sponsored, and had to work on state approved projects. Also don't be a Jew. Because no jews allowed.

>>35584519
my wife's bf's son told me to suck bourgeois dick and i've enjoyed it ever since

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>>35586536
>One superpower doesn't want another nation that was hellbent on conquering nearby nations and trying to stir global conflict was about to become a competing superpower

What is it with nazis and not understanding that swapping the rulers will do fuckall if the same system remains intact?

>hey didn't count on the Allies being so intent on completely eradicating a nation which separated itself from the international central banking system.
oh boy...
It's a well documented fact that Hitler & Co were activaly co-operating with banksters and CEOs. Stop trying to force this meme.

>>35586055
>Please rule me and fuck my wife bourgeois ubermensch daddy

>>35586684
I'm not requesting an autonomous society, but a society that doesn't hinder autonomy.
I have near autonomy now. I work hard, I own my car and home, my wife owns her own business, I'm a locally successful artist.
I'm not a communist/socialist/Marxist. I have nothing against capitalism or the free market.

>>35586721
>Of course if your art was politically provocative or not in line with nazi standards, you were no longer an artist. And the scientists and engineers were of course state sponsored, and had to work on state approved projects. Also don't be a Jew. Because no jews allowed.
Are you implying any of this is a bad thing?

The Fuhrer/King is the responsible for the shape his country has, of course he gets to monitor these things. Say some woman wants to do that degenerate "performance art" bullshit and walks around naked while spraying period blood everywhere, of course she's needs to be stopped. Say some retard wants to build a non-functional structure with the people's money of course he needs to be stopped
The Fuhrer/King is fair and keeps his people and nation first above all

>>35584313
>he isn't a social democrat out of practical concerns
Idealist idiot

>>35586786
>lies lies and more lies
You're being very broad with what you think an artist is. I refuse to recognize the authority of someone trying to stifle self expression.

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>>35586775
>I have near autonomy now. I work hard, I own my car and home, my wife owns her own business, I'm a locally successful artist.
And you would have all of those things and more in an ideal fascist society with even more freedom. You see the thing is the word "fascist" has been satanized to death by you-know-who and the first thing that comes to people's minds when they hear it is "no freedom" and "concentration camps"kind of like North Korea and the truth is very different. I really don't blame you for being so fearful of fascism, you have been indoctrinated from birth to hate it
>>35586828
>I'm going to do whatever i want, it's art if i say so and people have to put up with it even if it's the most degenerate thing and it damages my society

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>>35586659
>While the workers were not probably getting paid millions they were not in any way, shape or form the slaves American or Russian workers were
Are you kidding me? Labour unions banned, wages were stagnated and people's working hours increased. It was still good ol' capitalist slavery. See pic related to >>35585355


>Commie entitlement is crazy, what the fuck do you want? Everybody to be rich?
We want worker ownership of the means of production.
>The poor were the retards and the lazy
Poverty is a function of capitalism.

Capitalism and communism are jewish schemes to destroy the white race

Who /nationalsocialist/ here

>>35586849
>you would have all that and more
Lies and presupposition.
>>I'm going to do whatever i want, it's art if i say so and people have to put up with it even if it's the most degenerate thing and it damages my society
Yes. You cannot dictate artist intent. If you dislike what an artist is producing don't buy it.

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>>35586849
>I really don't blame you for being so fearful of fascism
I'm not the anon you're replying to, but fascism doesn't work because it rests on workers being deluded. When the workers realize they are being squeezed out of every possible penny, they will attempt to overthrow the system.

>willing to give up
He doesn't realize that the system by default is coercion; sell your labour or starve.

>>muh jews
Not an argument.

I'd rather be dead than red, and I do mean that

>>35586985
Live free or die, nigga.

>>35586786
>Sharia is ok when WE do it!

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>>35586851
>We want worker ownership of the means of production
And do what with it?>>35586401
Such a thing could NEVER happen and succeed, people would have different ideas on how to use the means of production and like i said previously: democracy is very corruptable. The union leaders would be in no time more tyranic than any king (and they were): >>35584929 (pic)
This mindless egalitarianism is nothing but untermensch fantasies of wanting to be ubermensch
>Poverty is a function of capitalism
Poverty is a function of weakness and/or stupidity
>>35586902
>Lies and presupposition
Truth and reality
>If you dislike what an artist is producing don't buy it
>dislike
That's the whole idea, you make pretty movies/songs/paintings so that people can "like" it but it can also contain harmful messages that can poison society and harm it: >>35584929 (pic)
>>35586947
>squeezed out of every possible penny
Again, selfishness and entitlement. Like i said previously those "pennies" are used to make society greater trough a well regulated national socialism. Like the three people i mentioned earlier (Caligula, Napoleon and Hitler) made the most amazing things with those "pennies" that are being "squeezed"
>sell your labour or starve
More like sell your labor or prove you're smart enough to make others do labor for you and for the well-being of this country. Once more, pure entitlement and gibes me dats
>muh jews
>Not an argument
Yes an argument, there's plenty of evidence in regards to their influence and intervention on many events and they posses almost all the money of the world and many more things. Funny how if you tell a commie that god may be real because of some hints here and there they tell you you're crazy but if you show them evidence of Jewish international influence it turns out it's just a coincidence
>>35587059
Do not dare to compare those savages with an European King like Napoleon please

>>35586947
>When the workers realize they are being squeezed out of every possible penny, they will attempt to overthrow the system
That's why the German propaganda machine was important to nazi Germany.
>The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.
Oh, Adolf.

>>35587118
>Do not dare to compare those savages with an European King like Napoleon please
Not an argument. Do you need a safe space, trumplr?

>>35584595
>t-those weren't real communist!!

Lmao another delusional commie dropped

>>35587118
>nazis think that they are naturally da bes
>got BTFO by dirty slavs they considered tantamount to monkeys and a hodgepodge of racially diverse americans
Nazis are so dumb it's so funny

>>35587118
>Truth and reality
Pls cite sources of fascism being anticensorship and supporting of anti state artists.
>That's the whole idea, you make pretty movies/songs/paintings so that people can "like" it but it can also contain harmful messages that can poison society and harm it
That sweet sweet condescension. Are you arguing that and artist such as myself would be thriving in a fascist regime, or that my "harmful poison" should be regulated and stomped out?

>>35587190
>got BTFO by dirty slavs
More like BTFO by having the whole damn planet join forces to beat them. Ants can be strong in numbers, i guess the same goes for untermensch. Germany was the superior country in the war and you can't deny it
>>35587201
>fascism being anticensorship
Dude can you read? I said they're pro censorship and that's a good thing, some things do need to get censored and like i said the King will be fair and won't silence anyone without a good reason
>an artist such as myself would be thriving in a fascist regime
If you're talented yes you would

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>>35587118
>And do what with it?
And manage it ourselves.

>Such a thing could NEVER happen and succeed
Except for all the times it happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities
Hunter and gatherer societies could be seen as primitive communism

>This mindless egalitarianism is nothing but untermensch fantasies of wanting to be ubermensch
Cool masturbation fantasy, but humans developed because of co-operation, not because of competition

>Poverty is a function of weakness and/or stupidity
Your nazi masturbation fantasy fails to account for the fact that wealth inequality is rising precisely because there are two distinct classes: those who own property, and those who don't.


>Again, selfishness and entitlement
Why should CEOs be entitled to someone else's labour power just because they happen to be owners of private property?

>More like sell your labor or prove you're smart enough to make others do labor for you
For that I have to acquire capital first (which is increasingly harder to get as wealth inequality rises) and I'd become petty-bourg at most.

Now where is the argument that CEOs are entitled to expropriate surplus value from me?

>Yes an argument
Jewish capitalists will hang too. It's pretty telling how much of a classcuck you are by accepting exploitation of your labour power as long as it is done by non-Jewish whites. Truly the inversion of the SJW. Really gets noggin jogging.

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average commie

>>35587312
Fascism isn't a monarchy. No kings. Your leader would be a dictator.
>Dude can you read? I said they're pro censorship and that's a good thing, some things do need to get censored and like i said the dictator will be fair and won't silence anyone without a good reason
>>an artist such as myself would be thriving in a fascist regime
>If you're talented yes you would
So the state would be completely cool with me making antifa pop art? Real low brow subversive shit. Your dictator, the pro censorship guy would be completely fine with it. I wouldn't be censored, punished, imprisoned, but actually thrive. I'm not really sure why I keep biting this b8.

>>35587365
>G-guys it would totally work! Just look at hunter gatherer societies!
Are you intentionally being a retard?

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>>35587435
average nazi

>>35587486
>Intentionally ignoring the link I sent that listed anarchist societies

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>>35587365
>And manage it ourselves
I just said you can't, people are too stupid and evil to manage anything well
>Hunter and gatherer societies could be seen as primitive communism
And i think this is a good society if an ideal society fails
>humans developed because of co-operation, not because of competition
Why not both? Fascism encourages both and leads to a greater society
>wealth inequality is rising precisely because there are two distinct classes: those who own property, and those who don't
It's not because "some have property and some don't", things are much more complicated than that. There's certain people, let's call them "social engineers/architects" who are shaping the world as they see fit and they have much more than "property" at their side
>CEO
>capital
I said previously that fascism is anti-capitalist
>>35587450
>antifa pop art
>won't silence anyone without a good reason
>good reason
I AM the one wondering why do i reply to such a retard

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>>35587533
>There's certain people, let's call them "social engineers/architects" who are shaping the world as they see fit and they have much more than "property" at their side

Those who own the means of production (private property) are fiercely backed by government force, and they hire workers to do labour, and the profit that the capitalists get are the surplus value that they have expropriated from the workers. This is the most basic point that Karl Marx asserted.

>I said previously that fascism is anti-capitalist
Private property still existed in Nazi Germany. In fact, Ford spent much of his investment into Nazi Germany to profit off it, which Hitler gladly accepted. If that is not capitalism, then I don't know what it is.

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>>35587596
Here I have a picture detailing capitalism and communism pretty well: http://i.imgur.com/tz47Bdz.jpg

>>35587533
>I have near autonomy now. I work hard, I own my car and home, my wife owns her own business, I'm a locally successful artist.
>>35586775
>And you would have all of those things and more in an ideal fascist society with even more freedom.
>>35586849
>>you would have all that and more
>Lies and presupposition.
>>35586902
>>Lies and presupposition
>Truth and reality
>>35587118
>Pls cite sources of fascism being anticensorship and supporting of anti state artists.
>>35587201
>>35587533
How am I supposed to have "everything I already have and more" when my art is being threatened, my autonomy is in jeopardy. Pls fix the inconsistencies in your arguement.
You're doing a pretty shit job of selling fascism.

don't worry robotos, if communism is implanted where you live after the 21st century (hahahaha) all you have to do is find the easiest job posssiblo since you're going to have the same rights and similar income as a white-collar worker, so why bother improving your abilities, right? hahahahahaha

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>>35584313
How can this shit-tier bait get so many (you)s?

>>35587596
>I don't know what it is
National socialism
>>35587635
If you're truly talented you can make beautiful art not "antifa pop" garbage, but then again i'm having the slight suspicion that you're not talented at all and just some art school graduate who thinks flinging shit at a wall is art

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Communism never worked.
Go home, /leftypol/.

>>35587739
>Not towing the party line
Haha I guess you're a shitty artist and human garbage.
>Towing the party line
Why yes, this shit stuck on the wall represents Jews! How talented of you.

>>35587786
"b-but it wasn't real/my unique branch communism!"

>>35587739
>If you're truly talented you can make beautiful art not "antifa pop" garbage
I won't allow the state to dictate my content. They have no say in my self expression. Are you unaware of what autonomy is?

>>35585587
> We want free shit but we don't want a government to give it to us!

Anarcho-communism is literally impossible. You cannot have communism in an anarchistic state.

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>>35587739
>National socialism
Individual ownership of private property existed in Nazi Germany (in fact, it was heavily promoted) and therefore capitalism flourished under it. It's just capitalism with an authoritarian bent. Being intellectually dishonest about it and attempting to rebrand it as something else won't do, because it's still is what it has always been.

I recommend you read this: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/Marx_Wage_Labour_and_Capital.pdf

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Literally the only thing holding me back from communism is that you're a bunch of faggots who think people who don't agree with your incredibly specific view should be rounded up in "gulags" and killed". Is that really the best you can do?

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>>35588074
>Communism is literally pol pot lmao
Anyways, it's high time that this thread died. I hope some was left with a better understanding of what socialism is as I part ways.

>>35584313

Are enemy spreads ugliness and equality

I WANT COMMUNISTS AND FASCISTS TO KISS DESU

>>35584553
Picture saved famalam.

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>>35584313
But being a NEET would be punishable by death under communism

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>>35584313
Your labels label me not, spookfag; I am above your ideas.

>>35585355
No sources for any of these arguments, nice!

>>35585520
Don't stay up too late timmy, it's still a school night.

17 million deaths in WW1 freaked people out so bad they were willing to try anything, which is why we got our first taste of global communism at the end of the war in 1917 with Red October.
In the meantime, everyone under that system got rid of it a long time ago (Russia) or lives under it in name only (China, Vietnam), with the exception of best Korea.
If there was another time when there was huge numbers of dead, like in the 50 million range, as the world population increased a lot, you could expect nations spontaneously going over to communism like before.
But not now. It's just not going to happen. Helicopter time is far, far more likely. The bourgeoisie are extremely entrenched, and have no intention of going anywhere, and without mass deaths of soldiers to frighten them, no military will go over to a bunch of commie freaks to try an experimental government.
If you are into Marx, I suggest you practice flapping your arms.

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I'm just a humble anarcho-primitivist, tending to his berry bushes! What in the name of Fredy Perlman is going on in this thread? Just come to Eugene & smoke some gnarly forest kush with me, we can eat Kraft Dinner & communicate with our primitive telepathic powers!

>>35588597
Shhh.. don't talk about that. Just support it for now and when it comes to it we'll figure it all out k ;^)

>>35584520
Lol please tell me how well that has worked out

>inb4 China

That isn't real communism