Democracy does not make sense.

I don't know where to begin pointing out your logical errors, but I'll just remind you that the only reason you have a modicum of wealth or prosperity is because democracy demands a certain value to even the lowest classes.


>What we need is a government that protects our liberty and property,

I'm so fucking sick of libertarians.

>>35580245
then you don't have the mind to. that's y ur authoritarian
you made the claim: "op would have nothing without democracy", now back it up
what have YOU done that creates VALUE?
I don't need other people, I see with my own eye and create by myself, without help from others.
not op by the way

when someone has money, you can tell what political ideology they hold by what they spend it on: videogames and hookers (authoritarian), geology sets, rosetta stones, and chemistry equipment (anarchist)

Democracy is flawed but so is a more authoritarian government. Democracy is good in that it limits the damage done by bad leaders, but it struggles with utilizing good leaders. Authoritarian governments have the opposite problem where they live and die based on the abilities of its leadership. In the longer term a more democratic government is better as its more stable. Authoritarian governments experience greater highs than a democratic one but even lower lows.

the amount of information people research before making a decision to a serious problem is staggering

morons are ruining humanity's overall potential and they breed like rats

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>>35580141
HOLY SHIT
O
L
Y

S
H
I
T

my nigger, I was L I T E R A L L Y just talking to my father about this.

You don't trust low-level employees to decide the president of a large company... you let a qualified board of directors do that.

You don't even let that happen in a small company... so WHY in GOD'S NAME would you allow the unwashed masses to choose the leader of a fucking COUNTRY, and not only that, one of the wealthiest and most powerful countries in the world? I am of course referring to the United States, but Trump-copycats are popping up in France (Marine Le Pen) and the UK, and probably other countries too.

The lower-class, uneducated masses do not have the ability to understand abstract reasoning or really anything beyond concrete logic (and sometimes not even that...) and have in many cases voted against THEIR OWN BEST INTERESTS (see: Trump)

>mfw the majority of people who dropped out of college or barely made it past high school voted Republican in the 2016 election
>mfw the majority of people who actually got their degrees voted Democrat
>my fucking face when the number of extremely highly educated individuals (termed the Intelligentsia) that voted Democrat was much larger than the number of intelligentsia who voted Trump

REALLY MAKES YOU THINK DOESN'T IT YOU FUCKING MORONS

>>35582454
both of these choices were shit anon

hillary was just as bad

>>35580141
The greatest problem with democracy os that we can only choose between the best liars and ass kissers. Democracy would be perfect if candidates needed to prove their qualities

>>35580141
Okay anon what's a better alternative? An alternative more resistant to internal government corruption?

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>>35582454
>>35580141

>You don't trust low-level employees to decide the president of a large company... you let a qualified board of directors do that.
Electoral College
If it was just the people Hillary would have won.
USA isn't a true democracy and work more like a business. It's just burgerlanders are to stupid to look into how everything works.

>>35582454
>a degree is determinant of intelligence
Whoa there bud, I am but a lowly adjunct professor but I can tell you there are some truly moronic people with 'degrees'.
A degree is meaningless, saying something like "they actually got their degrees" is not only a meaningless statement, but a foolish one also.
Further, claiming them to be intellectuals is just hysterical, if you spend any amount of time with these people you would quickly realize they are dumb.
>>35582705
Do you even know what the electoral college is or how it functions?
Do you even understand what a democracy is?

>>35582628
>Democracy would be perfect if candidates needed to prove their qualities
Which is an impossibility. Even past experience isn't a good bar with how they will handle things in the long run. Some of the best presidents in the US were the worse in just about everything else before getting elected in and many of the better skilled ones crash and burn bad.
Also when you get more than two people in a room to talk plans that will muck things up in a way that ensures failure qualities be damned. If humans are involved it just won't work.

>>35582747
America is a republic, numbnuts. It's only a democracy on a state level.

>>35582747
>Do you even know what the electoral college is or how it functions?
Yes. Do you? As it stands it function makes it to where the majority cannot control the country and has in place actions that allow 24 of the states to overturn the choice if they see it as bad.
>Do you even understand what a democracy is?
Not the united states. Nothing is control by true majority vote and it's a totem system where the people that have the real power in your officials and what not are much higher up.

>>35582662

A government with set laws that would never need to be altered.

>>35582790
>>35582822
Back to high school government class kiddos

>>35582747
US is a republic retard, they just tell you it's democracy to either keep you in line or make you attack the wrong threat. If the majority really saw how things work they either revolt or just stop voting completely.

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>>35582846
You can't even make an argument against it can you?

>>35582846
Get your b8 str8 m8.

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>tfw you don't live in a direct democracy so you can vote with fellow citizens to launch a military expedition against a neighboring city in order to subjugate them and take their woman and children as hostages to ensure they pay tribute

>>35582662

First we need smaller areas of government, way smaller. The most successful countries are not bigass ones like USA, China or Russia but rather small city states like Singapore, Luxembourg, San Marino, Andorra and Hong Kong.

People are free to form voluntary, collective societies. Government would be less corrupt if people are free to opt out at any time and don't have to pay any kind of debt.

The world should not be made of big countries, but thousands upon thousands of privately owned towns, villages and city-states.

>>35582859
>the us is a republic
>oh wait you mean a DEMOCRATIC republic
It is like I am talking to idiots who cannot grasp simple concepts while they shout out how other people are stupid.
Fucking retards do not even understand fundamental forms of government yet they speak against it, jesus christ
Again, back to high school government class

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>>35580141
(((Democracy)))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVkyubdoxdI

>>35580141
Ok starters
>America
>democracy
I'm assuming that's what you are talking about since you brought up the freedom meme.
Now, I'm curious: say that the majority agreed with you and what you wanted in life, would you still want a small group/lord to control everything? Even if they look at what you thought as correct as fucking stupid? That's the weird thing about all this. We bitch about the majority when we forget we are a part of that and tend to just take a "I'm right your wrong" mind set when the reality might be something we never want at all.

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>>35582939
>the US is a democracy
>no its a republic
>no its a democratic republic lolol

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>>35580141
The purpose of Democracy isn't for everyone to just up and decide what to do based on a majority vote but instead select politicians to represent us to that end. So the politicians will talk things out, do research and so forth in making the important decisions.

>The fact that "democracy" has become synonymous with "freedom" is one of the biggest jokes of the modern world
In the words of George Orwell from 1984:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Meaning your understanding of life is so warped that to you freedom itself is pseudonymous with slavery.

>>35582454
>You don't trust low-level employees to decide the president of a large company... you let a qualified board of directors do that.
The leaders of political parties act as the qualified board of directors who weed out all the bad candidates and let the people decide which of those candidates the want to elect.

>>35582662
The only alternatives are Monarchies, Military Juntas (which are pretty much the same thing) and Dictatorships. Communism and Socialism are economic systems which give whatever form of government they have free reign to establish a Dictatorship. In a Democratic system the government is working for the people, and must behave accordingly, however in 1 Party Communist systems and Dictatorships the people are working for the government and the government treats their people like shit. All the problems everyone brings up about Democracy is asinine complaining whereas in a Communist system or Dictatorship poverty would be widespread and dramatic, people would get hauled of to collective farms or re-education camps, prison sentences would be severe and include corporal punishment, it would be against the law to question the government, there would be no such thing as free speech, all media outlets would spew out propaganda for the government, art would be tightly controlled and suppressed, it would be against the law to express unhappiness in art, no memes

>>35582915
Anon, these small cities are hubs of extremely compressed wealth. If NYC became its own country it would be very successful. But the surrounding rural areas are not helped in any way by that.

>>35582986
>I'm a loser so everyone else should be a loser too

>>35582939
You are basically painting yourself because a Demo republic doesn't work like you are bitching about in the OP. It works nothing like that. In terms of who holds power and authority it is under the might of republic. In fact in your OP
>What we need is a government that protects our liberty and property, but not much more than that
Is basically how the US works. The majority doesn't control as much as you think.

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>>35582939
>this much back peddling
Do you even know what a democratic republic is? Even for (You)s this is fucking pathetic.

>>35583059
>literally the opposite of what that quote is expressing

>>35583061
It actually works EXACTLY like a proper democratic republic you fool.
I am quite convinced at this point that most of you haven't a clue what a republic or democracy is haha
Which is entertaining, it is like those kids who scream algebra isn't math because it has letters.
Please read more

>>35583038
>If NYC became its own country it would be very successful.
I feel it would just operate as it does. I have lived in 8 different states both sides of the coast and they work like separate countries both in laws, people and economy. Virginia is nothing like Oregon, Texas and Illinois are night and day with medical expenses and gun laws. Really I feel most the people that take country wide democracy seriously have never left their home area. Really we are just dozens of little countries all sharing the same figure head.

>>35583100
>hi I read notes on democracy now I REALLY know what I am talking about!
Consider suicide

>>35580141

This mindset is short sighted. Of course it is better to have a benevolent dictator than a democratically elected government, no question, but a dictator can only live for so many years.

The issue is succession. There is no way to identify and forcefully transfer power to a worthy successor, and so power is usually passed either to the dictator's family or someone high up in his government.

Study the history of Rome to understand why democracy is the only real choice for long term stability.

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>>35583157
>>35583210
So do you think if you keep crying and insulting others it will make you look less stupid or something?

>>35583231
>i still haven't a clue what I am talking about
Fuck it, I'll humor you
First define democracy, then prove why the US is not a democracy

>>35582454
>working class people that suffered over the past 8 years voted for change
Really makes you think

>>35583289
The two big ones:
The people/majority don't elect the people that sit in the Supreme court(the final interpreter of federal constitutional law), or the electoral college electors. One is chosen by a committee and the other is everything but name a successor system.

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>>35582454
>You don't trust low-level employees to decide the president of a large company...
It's called a worker co-operative.

>voted against THEIR OWN BEST INTERESTS (see: Trump)
Fuck off. Hillary Clinton's "Status Quo with a woman's face" was in nobody's self interest. The uneducated mass have seen their living standards decline for the first time since WW2. It's completely reasonable for them to take a punt on a candidate who'll either bring manufacturing back, or destroy the country.

>>35583427
And confirmed for clueless, nice

>>35583397

they didn't vote for change, they voted for a fantasy

manufacturing is never coming back to the US, if goods are made in the US again they will be made by robots

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>>35583450
>can't even bullshit why your "wrong"

>>35583427
The US is only a democracy on a state level.

>>35583492
And now we have to pay for a fucking wall.

>>35583513
and not by much really. even a lot of the police force and judicial systems are controlled by small groups.

>>35583492
>if goods are made in the US again they will be made by robots
Then the companies are paying US taxes which can fund UBI in the future, and a small number of robot maintenance jobs are created. Win win.

>>35583216
Oh yeah tell me about this stability democracy gave us, dumbass.

>>35583570
I can't speak for every state but Oregon all the majority really control is what they can legally smoke and how to tax homes and farms.

>>35583570
Except we get to vote on who commands to police and who becomes a judge. The higher up you go, the less impact the populous actually have.

>>35583631
The world is hilariously stable compared to the past. Perceived danger has only increased due to the 24/7 news cycle.

Even terrorism was a bigger problem in the 70s and 80s than it is now. though the 1970s were the last chance we had to save mankind.

>>35583513
So it's not much of a democracy then? Day to day stuff sure but big choices are basically out of their hands. That said any country that had a population bigger than Texas can't run as a true 100% democracy, it would get so bogged down that the country would just fracture into smaller lands.

>>35583612
>a small number of robot maintenance jobs in the future
I'm sure that'll offset the losses. Meanwhile us agriculture is about to get slashed and burned by spending cuts and a possible Mexican boycott.

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>>35583755
>Paying farmers not to grow food.

>>35583726
I'm not OP. I'm >>35582790

>>35583665
Not all states.
Many cities like New York City they are directly appointed by the mayor.

>>35583810
>tfw us agriculture is the largest supplier of corn to Mexico
>tfw everything contains corn
>tfw an agricultural crash would lead to another recession

>>35583813
Fair enough. I'm sure it varies state by state.

>>35580141

Democracy is far from majority rule. Decisions rarely have more than 30% of hard support. You can't exactly throw everyone else into gulag with that.

I agree it shouldn't be seen as synonymous with freedom - it's an effective way for free people to mediate on a large scale, but it's not the only way and it's not a panacea.

It's particularly bad when an issue that affects only a particular group, is being decided on by a great mass of people with no skin in the game.

>>35580141
>Democracy is bad pasta
>accompanied by edgy picture
Everytime

>>35584738
what made you want to make a post describing that post>?

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>>35580141
>What we need is a government that protects our liberty and property, but not much more than that

The trouble is finding people to run it that won't inevitably run it for their own profit, in the process abandoning their charge to look out for everyone else.

Well, I think the other trouble with this is the implicit idea that you don't need protection from other people; not even so much their malice as their neglect; which seems like a blatantly false idea, especially in the modern world of far-reaching technology.

If there's a problem with democracy, it is the people, but the illusion is that you could somehow reliably find and keep benevolent autocratic rulers to replace them when we just agreed that most of the people are dumb. It's not so much that democracy is a theoretically better option, it's just that it's a more practical admission that we are ruled mostly by the mob no matter what.

If dumb voters are a problem, the best way to deal with it is to create a culture of intelligence among the people to convert or exclude the dumb. And I don't mean to mandate it, I mean simply to create it by encouraging it in other people, demanding it of our friends and family. Where there is a drive to discern truth, and the humility to admit ignorance, there will cease to be misguided voters. The values we need are truth and intellectual honesty, and the rest we'll figure out as best we're able.

>>35580245
This is not true at all. In fact, what you described actually contradicts democracy,

>>35586227
Also there is always the risk you'll get a good heart but stupid ruler, or a pussy that will roll over. Really anything with people is just certain to be a huge fuck up sooner or later.

>>35580141
sorry to ruin your game of thrones mindset but leaving government decisions that affect a large group of people without the consent of that group of people is a good way to get yourself overthrown/ placed at the guillotine. obviously direct democracy could lead to poor decisions being made but this is why we have REPRESENTATIVE democracy

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>all forms of governments are Shitty
>we'll never get off this rock

>>35587385
Representative democracy is complete shit,really. It leads to an oligarchical hell,one we are living in right now.

>>35580141
That's why we're a Republic.
The democracy talk is a rahrahrah rally thing to suck in voters

>>35580141
The issue really boils down to grossly corrupt, and sometimes EVIL, rulers.

In whatever form of government, some cunts can and will fuck it all up.
I really wish the Queen would step up and bitchslap parliament when it started doing stupid, corrupt shit. She could. At the very least, she could call them out and voice her opinions.

Go read some history that hasn't been altered by the Feminists and Jews. Civilizations that were democracies have the shortest life span lasting only a hundred or so years before devolving into mob rule then dictatorship. Democracy was always seen as a shoddy system that deprived its citizens. It's only being used now to undermine a country like they used it to collapse the Russian and German empires. Communism is often promoted as a democratic system at first that's why every communist county has an official name including the word 'democratic' in it. Democracy is essentially communism light and is the first step towards communism. The democratic systems that did work were always contained and limited in some way to prevent uneducated and the lower class from voting. I.e. The Romans only allowed citizens to vote IN Rome not from a distance, so if you lived in a unstable colony you would have to travel to Rome and vote in person and votes of the higher class were also worth more than plebs.

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>>35580141
Daily reminder that monarchy objectively the best form of government.

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The idea that democracy is fair as well is laughable. You have people who go and research for hours, make important decisions and settle on the right decision. The fact that their vote is worth as much as someone who is a net drain in tax, who hasn't done the research, or may not even speak the language, is the complete opposite of fair. It's anti-meritocratic, giving no better rewards to those who research than those who do nothing.

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>>35589558
The whole point is that the representatives do the research, while you can't just run a fucking bulldozer over a substantial part of the population without consequences.
Sadly, since most systems devolve into 2 party systems and the global economy is interconnected, they ran a bulldozer over us anyway. Real wages have fallen for the poorest and stagnated for the middle class, all a result of unshackling global currency flows and banks in the late 70s and 80s. Normally the "left" would be expected to come along and undo this, but demoralized from a decade of defeats (or having been the ones to impose it, in Australia and New Zealand.) they sold out and accepted this new global order. Blair and Clinton signed the death warrant of the west.

>>35580141
>Democracy doesn't make sense
I don't even know of any existing democracies in the world. Everyone keeps throwing this word around as if it is synonymous with a Republic.

>tfw we'll never life in a comfy hunter-gatherer society

>>35580141
I don't know what country you're in, but the US is not a democracy and was never meant to be. It's a type of democracy, republic, where we vote for people who represent our interests

>>35580141
t. never lived in ussr

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>>35590007
The republic is not a type of democracy. These were two completely different forms of government and the republic was created by Rome before the Greeks made their democracy in Athens. This democracy meme needs to fucking die.

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>>35580141

Democracy is fucking retarded. If this man ruled us, we would become advanced as fuck within 10 years.