When is everyone going to acknowledge that life is suffering,

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i think the noblest deed is to kill yourself
i would have done it if my programming allowed it
but i am weak and therefore alive.

there is no point in living. no meaning.

we are all fools.
>pic related

>>35510141
How do I get past the guilt of leaving my parents and grandpa? I have read just about as much philosophy and agree that suicide is the answer. It makes the most logical sense to me but there is still that barrier keeping me from doing it.

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>>35511432
realize that their anguish is all just temporary like everything on this world and it too shall pass.

they will die and everything they ever experienced will become pointless. erased.

therefore it doesn't really matter. if they feel bad as it is all canceled in the end.

I'm a redditor in my early 30s with almost 100 thousand comment karma, a girlfriend that I sleep with on a weekly basis and estrogen levels never previously before seen in a human male.
I was an avid supporter of Bernie and I even got to shake hands with him at two of his rallies. I am a feminist, a liberal, a gamer and an atheist.

With all this said, I can state with absolute confidence: He is wrong, life IS good.

Life is not pure suffering

ya'll niggas need Schopenhauer

>>35511468
This is so fucking depressing to read.

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>>35510141
ideally yeah, all life extermination ends suffering but that ain't gonna happen, at least not by human hands, and even if we did end life on earth, could be life elsewhere

annihilation probs isn't happening soon, so you could hang out in this absurd game of life and help out your fellow players have a bit of fun or not suffer so much, or blow your brains out

the cool thing about absurdism is that you kinda just do whatever you fucking want and find your own reason for living or not living

yeah i dunno man, just do what you want but i'd recommend playing along in the game of life instead of being a zombie that wallows in suffering and self pity, or blow your brains out equally valid options imo

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>>35511432

You don't get past suffering guilt any more than you get past any other kind of suffering. We all know that we should kill ourselves, but that doesn't mean we will. However, if we accept the truth of the matter that we suffer constantly and for no reason, we can take measures to alleviate the burden of suicide in the same way we can take measures to alleviate the burden of anything else. Not only that, but your family members might even support your decision in a similar fashion to supporting the decision of taking someone off life support after a tragic car accident or whatever.

>>35510141
>we should all aim to die as quickly and painlessly as possible
yeah, life is suffering, but it's okay to suffer

avoiding pain is dumb as heck

"It's real. I can call it a misunderstanding, but I can't pretend that it doesn't exist, or will ever cease to exist. Suffering is the condition on which we live. And when it comes, you know it, you know it as the truth. Of course it's right to cure diseases, to prevent hunger and injustice, as the social organism does. But no society can change the nature of existence. We can't prevent suffering. This pain and that pain, yes, but not Pain. A Society can only relieve social suffering, unnecessary suffering. The rest remains. The root, the reality. All of us here are going to know grief; if we live fifty years we'll have known pain for fifty years. And in the end we'll die. That's the condition we're born on. I'm afraid of life! There are times I - I am very frightened. Any happiness seems trivial. And yet, I wonder if it isn't all a misunderstanding - this gasping after happiness, this fear of pain... If instead of fearing it and running from it, one could... get through it, go beyond it. There is something beyond it. It's the self that suffers, and there's a place where the self - ceases. I don't know how to say it but I believe that the reality - the truth that I recognize in suffering as I don't in comfort in happiness - that the reality of pain is not pain. If you can get through it. If you can endure it all the way."

>>35511563
i know. life is the harshest mistress out there.
but its true and in this case the truth hurts badly.

dont you agree?

>>35511566
What I find funny about absurdism is that is used to justify living life normally. You say it as if doing whatever the fuck you want is absurd. I guess it says a lot about our world

>>35511566
>the cool thing about absurdism is that you kinda just do whatever you fucking want and find your own reason for living or not living
choosing life along with suffering is what makes life even possible to have any meaning (even if it's just us attributing meaning, like you said, playing along in the game is more fun than not even knowing that it's a game)

consenting to the rules. saying, yeah sure, i'll play monopoly. but fuck that rule, cause that rules fucking dumb. I'm just gonna ignore it.

that's fine.

>>35511603
>You say it as if doing whatever the fuck you want is absurd.
no, the absurd thing is doing things without being aware that you're just participating in a bunch of games and behavioral expectations based on time, space, social norms, object's functions, people's functions, language, transaction... etc.

all of those things are just sets of rules and expectations that you participate in. voluntarily. if you're actually like consciously choosing to participate, anyways.
otherwise you're actually immersed in some bullshit and *that's* what is absurd.

>>35511573

vague pseudo religious nonsense

anything to avoid admitting life is unjustifiable

>>35511759
>anything to avoid admitting life is unjustifiable
explain?

also it comes off pseudo religious but it's philosophy, you dong
it's part of a scifi novel, the quote only functions as a metaphor

the point is to (like I said) choose life along with suffering and find (or attribute, whatever, it's all just language issues anyways) meaning in suffering

You're both right and wrong

Yes, material life is most definitely 100% concentrated suffering

But I can tell you, spiritual life is most certainly not.

>>35511863
>But I can tell you, spiritual life is most certainly not.
what the fuck are you trying to say?
the whole point of "spirituality", even if it is "real", is to avoid having to think about the suffering of material life
quit being a fucking bitch and face your pain, make it meaningful, and go have sex with someone who was abused

the universe is a cold dead place but you don't have to be
you can be a narcissist, a nice person, black, a jew, a muslim, a music guy, a jockey, or a radio host
all that shit is dependant on you or your emotions and it being based in abstraction or being le spook doesn't matter at all
it's all very clearly still happening around you no matter much you call it a spook
if you take an interest in philosophy and come out with any opinion other than the fact that everything is a spook and it doesn't matter at all you're basically just using philosophy to confirm existing opinions and lying to yourself
life isn't sad or happy or glorious or pathetic it's just a blank canvas
personifying life is one step away from personifying animals like furry you weird nerd

>>35511899
The point of true spirituality is not to avoid thinking about material life, it is to live a life that is simply much better.

>you can do A or B
>we all know A is shit
And you keep choosing A...

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>>35511692
hey thanks for responding, i think you've helped me sort through some of my thoughts and interpretations of absurdism

your explanation helped a bit, so thanks man
pretty smart

>>35511863
Spiritual life obviously segues into material life if it exists, because we are all here and were ostensibly at one point free-floating spirits.

That means that the spiritual life always contains the potential for suffering because it contains the potential for material life. Which means it is itself tainted by suffering.

There is no way out unless everything can be destroyed with 0 potential for being rebuilt.

>>35511951
explain more? that's interesting but i can't really get all of what you're trying to say about how spirituality functions for you
or as a technique for, what, alleviating suffering? preventing it? escaping it? realizing it's not actually "real" or something?

>>35511958
absurdism is the shit i love you dude
thank you

>>35512001
You're most certainly right. Spiritual life in this world is very very hard. It is not running away from the hardships and toil of material life, it is simply enduring it because it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does while you live.

And also, knowledge of how little a material life lasts compared to eternity (as much as it can be comprehended).

>>35512059
As I said in my post above, a spiritual life endures suffering because you're simultaneously in constant bliss.

I've never really gotten this mindset of 'life is endless suffering and therefore the best course of action is suicide.' I mean it makes sense to try avoiding something that sucks, but the problem with trying to avoid living is that there's probably nothing to else to go to. So while life is pretty shit for the most part it's still better than being dead and not being able to do anything.

>>35510141
It's all about survival instict. You want to live whether you think so or not

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>>35512077
>And also, knowledge of how little a material life lasts compared to eternity (as much as it can be comprehended).
when there's no point for beginning or end except in reference to other people's beginnings and ends, "material life" is eternity too
dingus

>>35512102
>a spiritual life endures suffering because you're simultaneously in constant bliss.
why the fuck would you be in constant bliss? the only pleasure you can derive from suffering is finding meaning in some way

>>35512103
I agree with you but would make a different argument for why suffering is okay

>>35512121
>you want to live
no, that's part of the games and behavioral rules we attribute meaning to unknowingly, that's what the absurdists call absurd

beliefs that anything is "objectively true" because of some philosophical structure you don't entirely understand anyways because it just kinda makes sense to say "yeah, science is true, so of course survival and stuff yeah! that's why we don't kill ourselves!"

really everyone chooses not to kill themselves *constantly* and everyone does it for their own fucking reasons (even if they're the same as someone else's, I mean they personally choose not to kill themselves because of their beliefs or whatever)

>>35512181
>pulling the absurdism card
Most people who try to kill themselves chicken out at the last minute, even the ones who go through with it shoot slightly off the mark. It's purely instinct. We are still animals after all. I love philosophy as much as the next guy, but the instinct to live is intrinsic to us and has nothing to do with absurdism. The meaning we try to find in life is what's absurd, not our survival instincts

I'm thinking about hiking out into the remote woods with my shotgun. I can shoot myself and hopefully it will take a long time to find my corpse. I don't want my parents to bury me.

>>35512252
i was referencing stuff said at the start of the thread
just calling it a "card" doesn't mean you're making an argument
>pulling the instinct card
considering things at all intrinsic is what's absurd. that's giving something some ultimate purpose or even ultimate function, and that's fucking absurd.

>>35512289
why do you want that? why don't you want your parents to bury you? did they hurt you a lot?

>>35512181
By the concept of eternity I mean that anything that happens in this life seems meaningless compared to non-material life.

Of course only very very few people have been able to truly comprehend infinity. Infinity is not to be understood, comprehended, or even thought about. It is simply reassuring.

You think about bliss in material ways. It does not feel good, it is simple knowledge.

>>35512103
The other problem with suicide is that it doesn't actually end suffering, it only ends yours. Most of the planet's animal population is incapable of deciding to commit suicide and incapable of acting on it if they somehow do, so even if everyone killed themselves simultaneously we'd still have organisms that suffer and evolve to levels of sentience where they can be even more acutely aware of that suffering. Even if we wiped out all life on earth genetic structures could randomly reemerge and fuck everything up.

>>35512181
The problem is free will. If there is none, the choices you make conditioned, and not really choices at all, so whether you have the ability to choose to end or perpetuate your life is all a matter of luck, as is making the choice itself. Everything is a game while it's a game and everything is real while it's real and which you're stuck with is a matter of fucking happenstance.

>>35512331
*the choices you make are conditioned

>>35512308
Take consciousness out of the equation and it is intrinsic. You're letting your conscious mind cloud your judgment. Consciousness was/is a mistake

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>>35511484
seriously hope you don't use that poor excuse to breed, suffering is the only certainty in life

normies don't know what suffering is

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>>35512315
>By the concept of eternity I mean that anything that happens in this life seems meaningless compared to non-material life.
gotcha
>it is simply reassuring
what?
there's no "intended purpose" for fucking infinity
>You think about bliss in material ways. It does not feel good, it is simple knowledge.
oh my god go meditate you fucking cuck
you aren't saying anything real and your happiness is fake you're just as bad as the idiot chads who fuck and get drunk all the time

meaningful pain>meaningless happiness
your word salad thoughts make you happy
but it's fucking word salad
it doesn't mean shit
meaningless.
asshole.

>>35512331
free will is the problem how? and like.. are you saying free will causes the problems of suffering and suicide and whatnot?


>>35512353
wowww forks are actually forks if we're not here to use them as eating utensils
things don't have inherent function just because they do specific things sometimes


>>35512371
I love you, anon

>>35512392
they suffer, but not enough
and so they suffer for nothing

>all these nihilists

Truly you are the undermen. You are all perfectly capable of mastering your Will, but you would all rather die like dogs.

>>35510141
>we should all aim to die as quickly and painlessly as possible
Then do it? It's pretty fucking easy nowadays.

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>>35512404
GIRL? 8O

>>35511573
"The reality of our life is in love, in solidarity," sai da tall, soft-eyed girl. "Love is the true condition of human life."

Bedap shook his head. "No. Shev's right," he said. "Love's just one of the ways through, and it can go wrong and miss. Pain never misses. But therefore we don't have muck choice about enduring it! We will whether we want to or not."

The girl with the short hair shook her head vehemently. "But we wont! One in a hundred, one in a thousand goes all the way, all the way through. The rest of us keep pretending we're happy, or else go numb. We suffer, but not enough, and so we suffer for nothing."

"What are we supposed to do," said Tirin, "go hit our heads with hammers for an hour every day to make sure we suffer enough?"

"You're making a cult of pain," another said. "An Pdpnian's goal is positive, not negative. Suffering is dysfunctional, except as a bodily warning against danger. Psychologically and socially it's merely destructive."

"What motivated Odo but an exceptional sensitivity to suffering - her own and others'?" Bedap retorted.

>>35512404
Nigger are you serious? The instinct to survive is what drives ALL animals (Though bees make no fucking sense). We are not all fucking blank slates to be molded. We're fucking animals at our core that somehow developed consciousness (which is most likely an illusion of tons of levels of abstraction anyways)

>>35512404
Look up "ataraxia" as used by Epicurus.
That is more like the feeling you get. It is stillness, non-worry.

>you aren't saying anything real
What do you want me to say then?

>>35512308

My parents are poor and a funeral would be expensive.

>>35512476
Bees sacrifice their lives for the glory of the honeycomb empire and to honor her majestbee

>>35512404
Sorry I probably phrased that really incoherently. What I mean is that because of the seeming lack of free will, our choices aren't actually choices. Conditions have to be right for somebody to believe that they're choosing to kill themselves or not kill themselves. You can't choose to live or die when you can't actually make choices, and whether or not you're free from attributing meaning to the "game" is a matter of luck.

I dunno it's just sad.

>>35512427
dogs as all animals are slaves of the will while we are able to break it's chains, and you dare to call anyone else a dog?

>>35512427
>implying Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist and a cuck


>>35512476
>Though bees make no fucking sense
explain? that sounds funny
yeah, we do things "instinctively" but they're not "functions" okay? functions are ideas
even instinct is just an idea, it's a product of some philosophy. it's part of a game too. the idea is part of a game, science i mean.

>>35512481
okay cool, thank you
reading up right now
and I just want to know what you're saying. give me some definitions and arguments, not just appeals to something. i feel like you're saying "nah, life feels good I feel it sometimes" and that's not really an argument it's just a counterexample (and a very vague one at that)

>>35512500
that fucking sucks
write in your will to be cremated, it's cheaper

>>35512540
oh ok ok, i follow you a little better. I mean I don't really believe that, I totally believe experience functions way differently from the like "chemical reactions and electronic pulses going on in your brain" cause like
sure you give two brains the same exact electric pulses or whatever, the experience of them would be entirely different because it's two different people
I can never know what it's like for you to eat chocolate, i can't look in your brain or look at a brain scan and *know what it's like*

>>35512599
Damn dude you let your conscious mind cloud your judgment way too much. Get in touch with your primal nature. You'll be much happier

>>35512427

There has never been an ubsermensch and there will never be an ubermensch. Nietzsche was wrong.

>>35512599
>write in your will to be cremated, it's cheaper
Not only that but if you also despise the cycle of suffering it helps not giving it your body

>>35512599
>implying that any thought anytime can be separated from the biological system that birthed it
>implying your lizard brain does not cloud your judgement by soaking the rest of the brain in drugs until it does as it's told
>implying any thought can be removed from that which thought it, with all its biases, memories, emotions, and instincts, and the subject of that thought
>implying anything ever is objective
top lel

>>35512554
We alone among the animals of Earth have the ability to MASTER our own Will. Death is the easy way out, and the most cowardly.

>>35512599
Nietzsche was certainly not a nihilist

>>35512627
Adolf Hitler
Vladimir Lenin

>>35512653
This
It's the ultimate fuck you to nature
Although embalming probably has a similar effect, but I don't know how effective it is in the long-term

>>35512599
I'm afraid the "definitions and arguments" you seek are mostly for each person to find.

I can tell you they're out there if you have sincere seeking in your heart.

>>35512618
"What's wrong with pleasure, Takver? Why don't you want it?"

"Nothing's wrong with it. And I do want it. Only I don't need it. And if I take what I don't need, I'll never get what I do need."

I don't fucking wanna be happy
pain is fine
it's okay

I know my language is super aggressive right now, so don't take this as confrontational or anything, it's not, I'm just really curious:
you said my conscious mind is clouding my judgement, what have I said that indicates that my judgement is impaired at all? and what lets you know that it's my "conscious mind" is what's doing it?

>>35512653
>it helps not giving it your body
what

>>35512711
>implying that any thought anytime can be separated from the biological system that birthed it
it can't, but your experience is absolutely already separated
>implying your lizard brain does not cloud your judgement by soaking the rest of the brain in drugs until it does as it's told
i don't get why that matters
>implying any thought can be removed from that which thought it, with all its biases, memories, emotions, and instincts, and the subject of that thought
it can't
>implying anything ever is objective
I'm not saying that, I'm literally saying that nothing is objective

>>35512734
the ubsermensch is pretty nihilistic in its structure and birth
god is dead, etc.
or more clearly put, "meaning isn't inherent, so we have to make our own"

>>35512765
ah no i think i know what you're saying I guess
you're already doing it, in being vague as fuck and creating and finding meaning the way you do
that's cool dude
i'm glad it makes you feel good and more capable of living a meaningful life
that's awesome

>>35512780
What do you want from me I dont get it

Im trying to help

>>35512768
Not that anon but I think he means when you're cremated less biomass is directly recycled into other living beings like worms and flies and whatnot. If you come from the standpoint that life is suffering, that means there's less viable matter to make into creatures that suffer (for now).

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong tho anon

>>35512371
What's some other Schopenhauer material similar to this excerpt?

>>35512819
help how?
I'm not being sarcastic that really is awesome that you found your way of making life meaningful.
I have too, I'm okay
you're okay, anon
thank you

>>35512768
>or more clearly put, "meaning isn't inherent, so we have to make our own
Precisely. Some realize this truth, and cannot handle it, and so end their lives. But the better thing to do would be to live with this newfound knowledge, empowering your manifest Will

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>>35512880
Oh originaI okay

>>35512880
Your open-mindedness is pretty cool anon

>>35512768
Because you're denying that you have any primal instincts. What the fuck do you think fight or flight is? You consciously thinking that you should be on edge and either fight for your life or get the fuck outta dodge? No, It happens subconsciously whatever the fuck that means. Subconscious actions are so similar to the survival instincts of animals that that might be all there is to it. Just try to look at it from another perspective. We are all prisoners of our own bodies after all. Why is it that you think you can deny your own biology?

>>35512870
Exactly! thanks anon

>>35512870
that sounds right
but i believe in making suffering meaningful, that suffering is an opportunity for lots of meaningful interaction
sharing pain with people, being vulnerable, touching one another's wounds yknow?
stuff like that
I wouldn't wanna keep other humans (or other things) from that
but I am gonna be cremated, that's mostly cause it's my family's tradition and i find it symbolic and meaningful in a different way, and also cause we're all broke as fuck
>>35512871
check out essays and aphorisms, it's a collection of his short writings
http://www.stjohns-chs.org/general_studies/philosophy/Romantic/sch.html
this too

>>35512899
why would people get sad or hurt just cause there's no "inherent" meaning?
i'd feel restricted if there were

like okay, here's something that terrifies me
take hydrogen, add one proton, now it's helium
that's fucking QUANTITY
you can count that shit
it's just proximity too to say "this and this make two"
that's fucking scary as hell, it actually changes its physical characteristics and whatnot because of some quantity ??
fuck that

>>35512902
i love you anon thank you for the cute picture and for sharing

>>35512940
thanks, i'm like really worked up and frustrated because my whole argument is in favor of being more open minded but in order to show people that i kind of have to destroy their frameworks for "truth" and stuff
the whole point is that everyone is moving on their own, making their own truth and whatnot

>>35512971
fight or flight is also an idea
science is a philosophy
>You consciously thinking that you should be on edge and either fight for your life or get the fuck outta dodge?
>No, It happens subconsciously whatever the fuck that means
I'm not saying that those instinctual things don't exist, I'm saying the idea of instinct is just a fucking idea
the thing beneath it, the observed phenomena that we label "instinct" is just that
observed phenomena
nothing more or less

>>35512971
>We are all prisoners of our own bodies after all.
I know, it sucks
the biggest prison caused by bodies, I think, is language
it's pretty restrictive
fun and all, but the fact that we really can't understand one another's experience is really shitty
but also makes it meaningful yknow? if I could understand, there'd be no separation between "you" and "me"
and then, what would it matter when people die? when people are born? when people suffer or feel happy?
kind of nothing cause you'd be feeling it too I guess

>Why is it that you think you can deny your own biology?
I can't, you can't, nobody can
not the matter, the bodies, whatnot
but biology as a concept is just a concept, like I said
i'm sorry if I sound like I'm denying that biology is an actual thing
yknow like
2+2=4 of course, but numbers aren't "real"
just thoughts

it is weird, though, how often science and math actually works

>>35512540
>our choices aren't actually choices
> You can't choose to live or die when you can't actually make choices

Explain yourself.
How can't we make choices?
We chose to keep living instead of taking the faster ending that's what we are doing that's what we choose.

>>35513074
>the biggest prison caused by bodies, I think, is language
It's terrifying to an individualist when you realize how much language affects the way you think. I mean, a bunch of guys (not literally ofc, obviously language evolves over the course of countless years) actually told you how to structure your thoughts and dictated the phonetic sounds you would associate with your internal dialogue and you just up and accepted it like it's no big deal.

It can have terrifying implications if used for exploitation.

>>35513094
he's making a hard determinism argument
thoughts, choice and experience are just the effects of matter and electricity in the brain
those aren't chosen, they're physical
cause and effect
we don't have control over that (from a determinism perspective anyways)

those who believe in free will tend to believe the mind and experience is something apart from the physical stuff (not spirit or something like that, just it's different. some people blame god for it. some people just think that's how it is)
I dunno
I'm kinda in the middle, personally
but honestly I don't care whether my choice was "truly free", I just like if it's free enough in a social sense. as long as another person isn't restricting me intentionally from choosing something I want to choose.

>>35513074
We're creatures that are made to recognize patterns. Nothing more. Nothing less. Philosophy contains science, math, and many other subsets that we created (or discovered if you subscribe to plato's point of view [unless I'm remembering incorrectly]), but what is the largest set that contains all of these? Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong but Godel's incompleteness theorem really bothers me. Whatever axiomatic system you come up with will have inherent contradictions so why the fuck would anyone try to understand anything. Yeah everything boils down to just concepts and ideas (in our minds) but then why would you try to argue any of the shit you've been arguing? Nihilism as it's interpreted by most people is a fucking meme, but seriously nothing matter because we can never possibly fully understand it. Fuck I'm drunk.

>>35512734
>and the most cowardly.
So be it there's no shame in cowardice, I bet in not the only who lost relatives to suicide and is proud of them, those who hurt others are the ones that should be insulted

>>35513295
we impose that recognition and say, "Ooh ooh! pattern! that means it's meaningful!"
>Godel's incompleteness theorem really bothers me.
I have a godel book on my shelf my friend left at my place (she moved out of this apartment but left her bookshelf, it has godel on it)
I'll read a bit about it cause that sounds funny

>Yeah everything boils down to just concepts and ideas (in our minds) but then why would you try to argue any of the shit you've been arguing?
because >>35513013
>my whole argument is in favor of being more open minded but in order to show people that i kind of have to destroy their frameworks for "truth" and stuff
the whole point is that everyone is moving on their own, making their own truth and whatnot
it's hard to choose life but it's meaningful to
and it's just kinda sucky when it hurts so much that you can't anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tYflj8Tuj8

>>35513213
that makes me laugh a bit
i think it's funny that we're just making sounds like that
I'm super into weird performance art that explores sound that way
noise music too
is sweet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs0yapSIRmM

>>35513074
Eh, I don't know how meaningful I think it really is. It basically forces you to accept that you will never truly know someone and that what you think they are is actually just a reflection of yourself.

It's a lonely feel, and it causes a lot of conflict, and not necessarily meaningful conflict because misunderstandings can be close to baseless. Although I suppose you could say that it affords you the opportunity to derive more "imaginary" meanings from other people than you otherwise could, because everyone will see everyone else differently than everyone else. But it is only truthful to the interaction itself rather than its participants, if that make sense.

What are you anons going to do with the time you have left?

Are you going to use it or just end it?
The best way i can justify life is to try everything you can and stick with the things that make you happy.

>>35513213

it's purely organic, though, because it does develop over ages and through group consensus more than anything else, so it can't really be used for "manipulation" in that sense. not conscious, at least. you do get loaded up with the general inertia of the culture and age you're born into though, because those are the ideas you get taught as a child when you have nothing to bounce them against, so in some sense indoctrination of one sort or another is inevitable.

i don't think language itself is restrictive at all. if an idea gets communicated to enough people a name for it will be created and it'll spread, so there's not this idea of "if it isn't named you can't talk about it," it's just hard to talk about until other people know what it is and know the name of it.

>>35513413
play games/watch anime/browse internet then end it when parents are kill

It's only a recent thing that people are even cognizant of it.
The only people who ever bitched and moaned about the woes of life were lazy as fuck philosophers who didnt actually fucking contribute anything to the society they lived in, rich nobility who had the luxury of being bored enough to notice, and clergymen who...well, had the luxury of being rich and bored enough to notice. Can only repent to god so many times in a day.

Everybody else was out farming, fighting, stealing, forging, or trading to notice because otherwise they would fucking starve and so would their entire family.

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>>35510141
Life does not have to suffering. We struggle due to god giving us the nerf called emotions. Emotions are holding us back. emotions cause wars, hatred, greed etc. And those things spread negativity and bad feels to all.


If we can somehow find a way to rid the world of emotion then the suffering will end.

>>35513408
>you will never truly know someone
that makes it beautiful
you can't *know* them, but you can see them being true, open, honest, vulnerable, in pain.
and only for a little bit, cause eventually they step back into the social norms of hiding your pain and whatnot
and one day, yknow, they'll die and nobody else will ever get to *see* them being honest and true and vulnerable
>and that what you think they are is actually just a reflection of yourself
only sometimes, i mean, it's a reflection of yourself and all you've learned about others too
actually, I don't think it has to be a reflection at all
it only reflects if you're trying to understand them, then you run into the trouble of "I only know my experience"
if you can just accept and be okay with that, and then just see them and sit with them, not try to sit as them, then you can be intimate in a really authentic way where you aren't trying anymore
just being with them

>>35513413
>The best way i can justify life is to try everything you can and stick with the things that make you happy.
>try everything
>stick to what makes you happy
incorrect
also doing only what makes you happy is boring and fleeting

>>35513451
>Everybody else was out farming, fighting, stealing, forging, or trading to notice because otherwise they would fucking starve and so would their entire family.
what
no
there were always poor people, slaves, people with disease and pain
i think you're missing the point
or perhaps I am, if you're arguing about "existence is pain because just existing is boring"

>>35513462
>If we can somehow find a way to rid the world of emotion then the suffering will end.
without suffering life would be meaningless
much less life without emotion
fuck off with your edgy dumb bullshit

>>35513094

well, free will probably doesn't exist if the deterministic model of the universe is as correct as it seems, which must be pretty correct because all of our science is based on it.

>>35513463
>incorrect
>also doing only what makes you happy is boring and fleeting


Explain yourself i want to know your point of view
I know that i might not be able to share your point of view but atleast i can try to understand it.

>>35510141
all of our memories are crap, the world is crap, and the only way to go out is with a bang, if you know what I mean

>>35513451
Emil Cioran wasn't Philip Mainlander wasn't

>>35511371
Is there a full tarot for this?

>>35513534
what do you mean?

i have other pepes like this yes.

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>>35513494
>eithout suffering life would be meaningless

So you're saying we should all struggle for no reason when it could be avoided? You really think everyone wants to suffer years of pain?

>>35513494
Yeah there were always people in shitty situations, it's just that number was WAY WAY higher.
When you're in that shitty of a situation you don't focus on why life is intrinsically meaningless or any of that shit that makes you sad late at night. Because you're fucking busy, the only thing that matters to you is getting enough shit together to feed everybody and house everybody properly.

Just because life IS shitty doesn't mean you notice it all the time. Why do you think people use exercise or reading as an escape mechanism? It keeps them busy which means they don't notice the garbage truck full of horse shit hovering over them

>>35513515
Wasn't what?

>>35513495
>which must be pretty correct because all of our science is based on it.
I don't know what kinda logic led you to that but i can just *feel* how wrong that is

>>35513501
I kinda already explained all that in the thread, just read through it a bit and I'm sure you can find which ones are mine

i also have a little thing i sent to a friend once, lemme type it up for ya

"It's beautiful, the most beautiful thing in the world, just to see someone experiencing. to see their person. to Love is to see someone's person, that part that hurts when someoen they love says they're disappointed in them. that's wonderful and immersive like a movie or an art installation, it's beautiful. it's what gives my life meaning. to be in that moment someone and see there's no way for you to understand, but you can see them and be fully in this 'i can't save them, i can't do anything, i can't understand but i see you, i see you, i see you' and to know that moment will end eventually and you'll have to go home and eat dinner and take a nap. but the part that makes it hugely meaningful, that makes humans and people more beautiful than the vastness of stars or how cazy insanely small atoms are or how beautiful a lake by a mountain is, is that one day they'll die. nobody else will ever get to see them ever. and you will die, and nobody will see you ever again. all those interactions are so subjective and distinct and unique to each person who saw you, and only they have them. it builds their life and experience and reason to live and they'll die too and all those things will go away. that's why it hurts when people die"

>>35513462
And physical sensation, too.
The "problem" (quotes because I agree with you for the most part) is that, from how I see it, we mostly use logic for the purpose of evoking certain emotions. We would have no reason to do anything without the rewards and backlashes of emotion, so living would become unreasonable very fast. No one would procreate, no one would study or take interest in the world the world (can't feel satisfaction from it), no one would bother eating or even surviving because there would be no fear of death. It would be complete senseless chaos. Not that that's a bad thing, and not like things aren't already. Emotions are like a drug addiction, you'll never be free as long as your actions are tied to them.

>>35513575
>So you're saying we should all struggle for no reason when it could be avoided?
some suffering can be avoided, but not all of it. the stuff that can be, should be, of course, but the stuff that can't shouldn't be pushed away

see >>35512470
>"What are we supposed to do," said Tirin, "go hit our heads with hammers for an hour every day to make sure we suffer enough?"

>>35513581
>When you're in that shitty of a situation you don't focus on why life is intrinsically meaningless
no, some people do and they kill themselves
the others that don't, don't because they're caught up in fighting for meaning somehow or the struggle is already meaningful to them
>the only thing that matters to you is getting enough shit together to feed everybody and house everybody properly.
yeah, they're already doing the meaning-making work
they have meaning

>It keeps them busy which means they don't notice the garbage truck full of horse shit hovering over them
gah, i love you that was sweet

>>35510141

utilitarianism my dude, utilitarianism

if there were a pill i could take that would painlessly pass me off to the void i would take it

>>35513665
>if there were a pill i could take that would painlessly pass me off to the void i would take it
nice
i'm inspired by your conviction even though that's not what i'd choose
kick ass anon

>>35513586

because the experience of consciousness is definitely that you do have free will. we feel free, whether we are is a different matter.

the idea of free will, basically, is that if we rolled you back to the moment before you made the post i'm replying to, you could choose not to post it or choose to use different words or maybe choose to use a period on your first sentence instead of riding easy like how i do

but that's only with the foreknowledge that you decided to post it. you can look back and see how you could have posted it differently, but if you didn't have that knowledge, you wouldn't be able to have the thought that you should post it differently, right? in the exact circumstances of that moment you decided to make that post exactly the way you did.

in every other area of life, it should be expected that if something happens in certain circumstances, it would always happen that way in those circumstances. if you roll back time on a ball falling from your hand to the floor, the ball clearly would take the exact same path after you hit "play" on time again, and you would expect absolutely everything in the universe to be basically the same way. it's only when we talk about conscious creatures like ourselves that we feel like something else is true; even on animals, i think most people would agree that if you rolled time back and didn't give the animal any additional knowledge, the animal would do the exact same things over again.

it's mighty convenient, the idea of free will.

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>>35513633
>gah, i love you that was sweet
w-what are you saying a-anon?

>>35513780
But interestingly enough, merely thinking that we have free will can alter our behavior which can make it useful even if it's not truthful. Pretty funny.

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>>35513780
oh i get the argument, i know
i just think your way of saying "science works, science is deterministic, that means determinism is real!"
even though saying science is deterministic is more of an assessment than any truth about science
also, i don't care
like i said, changing my behavior or not, it doesn't change how I create meaning in my life because my meaning isn't dependent on my "absolute" free will (as absolute as I can be, anyways)

>>35513797
i-i dunno anon m-maybe you... i just think you're cute, okay?

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>>35510141
Nihilism is a Jewish tactic to halt innovation and cripple western society.

>ITT: Atheists

If you remain where you are you must perish; if you go to Jesus you can but die. "Nothing venture, nothing win," is the old proverb, and in your case the venture is no great one.

If you sit still in sullen despair, no one can pity you when your ruin comes; but if you die with mercy sought, if such a thing were possible, you would be the object of universal sympathy. None escape who refuse to look to Jesus; but you know that, at any rate, some are saved who believe in him, for certain of your own acquaintances have received mercy: then why not you?

>>35514014
did you read any of the thread?

>>35513951
Even if that were true what difference would it make?

>>35513901

scientific inquiry in general does rely on the idea of the universe being a sensible place with rigid, discoverable laws.

>>35513951
society and innovation are both meaningless

>>35510141
No matter how much suffering I go through, I've told myself to stick through it because it's all we have, so if we even felt the tiniest bit of happiness throughout the suffering I think it would be worth it. Happiness is not something felt in the void, and being /comfy/ with a book is something I'd hate to lose

>>35514014

religions are certainly false though. you put a nice coat of paint on it, but it's really just running from the reality that our senses and our reason can clearly see.

i don't think there's anything noble about running away from life just because the nature of it is depressing.

>>35514146
no it doesn't
you can observe and just say "okay, *if* there were rigid discoverable laws, what would this phenomena be 'saying'?"

>>35514014
the irony when Jesus committed suicide

>>35514195
Religions sure but I don't see how Christianity avoids reality.

Have you even read Ecclesiastes?
There isn't a book more depressing and to the point about reality.

>>35514384
>Have you even read Ecclesiastes?
not that anon, but ecclesiastes is the only book i read from the bible
it's pretty great
glad someone else is into that stuff too

>>35514014
The irony of joining Christianity to avoid being afraid of death then scold people for talking about their fear of death

>>35514014
You don't follow Jesus if you love this world your parents or your body:
http://biblehub.com/luke/23-29.htm

>>35514493
Avoid?

1 Corinthians 15:54-55
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?

What you fail to understand is that when you have been forgiven, you recieve everlasting life.

What does death mean to me if Christ defeated sin and death on the Cross?

Why should I fear death when Jesus overcame death and gives us the victory?

Know this, That the Christian has no reason to fear death. If a Christian fears death, it is the deaths of those who perish in their sins. This who rejected Christ.

Christ will not turn away anyone who comes to Him. The choice is yours.

>>35514553
To be exact, putting any of the things you mentioned before God. It goes back to the first commandment. You'll notice that honoring your parents is also a commandment but the first is above all. Jesus reiterates it in the Gospels.

>>35514234

but if it isn't the case that the laws are rigid, the work is pointless because the laws could change in between your separate experiments and trying to understand them would be pointless. unless there were a rigid law that determined when the apparently less rigid "laws" change, and then it's just a different target you're chasing. science relies on the assumption that the universe is both rational and understandable, and has repeatedly given us extremely accurate pictures of the universe around us, with the proof in prediction and manipulation.

you could always hold out hope that something will come along and dash all this knowledge and certainty to dirt, right up until the last human croaks, but it's not a realistic or reasonable hope to hold.

>>35514384
>Ecclesiastes

are you from a sect that only reads this book or something? because otherwise anything in there is balanced out by all the other afterlife-indicating shit elsewhere that is also considered holy scripture.

the finality of death is probably the most important reality one can be made aware of. even leaving aside all the other clearly false shit there is in the bible.

>>35514667
>the work is pointless because the laws could change in between your separate experiments and trying to understand them would be pointless
no because you could say
"at this time the law was this, now it's this"
that's usable information in some way

>science relies on the assumption that the universe is both rational and understandable
yes, but it's just an assumption

all I'm arguing is that just because science works, it doesn't mean determinism is true