When did you realize capitalism sucks?

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>>35383646
HELICOPTER TIME FAG

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>>35383646
When my mom had to choose between bringing the family food or medicine.

>>35383646
When i was 16 but then i turned 18

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>>35383671
when my entire family starved to death because the rich farmers were all slaughtered by the state and the state run communal farms are corrupt and inefficient as shit

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>>35383698
>people who don't like capitalism must be cool with state capitalism
Brilliant.

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>>35383732
>believing that proper food and medicine supplies could ever exist without a state

W.E.W

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>>35383757
>believing that they couldn't
Does dogshit taste good off a boot?

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>>35383646
When will you realize that Marxism only leads to totalitarian governments and death?

Fuck off. Better dead than red.

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>>35383799
>wanting to revert to barbarism that created literally nothing after centuries of civilization have brought us such progress and technology
>believing anarchism is amazing when humans have literally been anarchists for thousands of years living in their own shit
>not realizing that the abolishment of the state would lead to the fall of civilization, technology and a revertion to the stone age, forcing me to drop your commie ass off a mountain instead of a helicopter

My third day in the gulag

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>>35383855
Have fun sustaining civilization when it brings the world down around it. I'm sure climate-change-induced die off is a much better alternative to literally anything else.

Capitalism sucks but everything else we've tried sucks even harder

>>35383646
When I was 13, but suddenly I turned 14.

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>>35383646
When did you get out of your faggot communist phase? I got out of mine when I was 14.

>>35383646
Capitalism is good for the people with the wealthy and resources, and lack of morality, to take advantage of it.

So it's good for ~15% of the population.

>>35383970
Took me until first year university at 18. I was a late bloomer.

>>35383646
When I saw your post from my 4k HD TV in 3D beamed straight into my eyes while eating flaming-hot cheetos developed by employees in a multi-billion dollar international company made possible by a board of shareholders whom I've made my living from while living a life of leisure made possible by a free-market economy.

>>35383926
I'm still not THAT big of a failure in life to support communism.

>>35384075
How did you make your living from a board of shareholders?

>>35384104
by being on the board of shareholders.

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>>35383855
No. That state of living was not ANARCHISM it was TRIBALISM. Tribalist societies can still have hierachies, classes, etc. and protip; Primitive tribalist societies were superior you dumb jew controlled cuck. Get your history right


>>35383646
capitalism and communism are both the same sides of the jewish coin.

>>35383646
leftypol doesn't get tired of being btfo. i won't post anything this time. i will just sit back and eat my popcorn.

>>35383835
Here's a news flash, they all lead to totalitarianism. There is no political or economic system that won't lead to totalitarianism. Half the population of America was a slave 130 years ago and it was a capitalist fucking society. There's no ideology that can fix the worlds problems, when will you intellectually lazy libertardians get that through your thick monkey brains.

That's why that free trade bullshit libertardians shoved down everyone's throat ended up just replacing all of the good paying unionized jobs in the West with mcjobs.

>>35384239
The south wasn't a capitalist society, it was a backward agrarian quasi-feudal society that was inevitably run over by a more efficient and advanced industrial capitalist society.

>>35384239
>There's no ideology that can fix the worlds problems, when will you intellectually lazy libertardians get that through your thick monkey brains.
but leftism will only make things much worse. when will you leftards get that through your thick peanut brains?

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I was born in 1988 in the USSR
Ask me anything

>>35384128
Pretty cool, anon.

Can you give me some money? I need books or medicine or food or some shit, whatever.

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There is literally no reason to support capitalism in this day and age

What we need is some good old Strasserism

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>>35384347
>capitalism has literally built modern civilization


OOOPS IN THE TRASH LET'S TRY THIS SYSTEM THAT HAS LITERALLY NEVER

EVER

WORKED

Communism will work when bloodborne is ported to PC

NEVER EVER EVER

>>35384273
>not real capitalism!

>>35383646
I'm afraid I can't relate with this feel anon, I love the free market and honestly it sometimes makes me question my atheism it's so wonderfully and perfectly efficient.
Really, everything good in the world is a result of it, and capitalism is a natural evolution within the free market so I like it too. If the workers were meant to own the means of production they would, because worker owned factories would be more profitable.

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>>35383646
Communism is an absolute joke

There is no point in arguing with communists, just ignore them. They will never listen to logic. If they were logical, they wouldn't be communists. They are just envious of rich people and want all of their stuff, much like half of /r9k/ is envious of "Chad". Most of them will fall out of it at some point, Communism isn't cool anymore, especially after the whole mass murder thing. SJWism, is the new thing to watch out for, now THOSE people are fucking dangerous. I seriously fear that in a few decades I'll be rounded up and executed if I stay here, I live in Canada.

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>>35383646
After i couldn't make it in a system that has been made as easy to succeed in as possible

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there is literally nothing wrong with capitalism, it is just freedoms

>>35383970
I had mine early, due to a few odd circumstances, but it lasted from about me being 12 to me being 15ish

>>35384370
>communism

Are you illiterate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism

>>35384313
Sure, but you need to work for it.
*unzips dick*

>>35384484
>implying facism is any better

facism is great for building up a shit tier country but it requires them to become a war monger and they immediately get BTFO by the nations they were invading as soon as the dust settles

It's like a magic pill that gives you a huge dick and makes you super strong but then all your cities get bombed to shit, your industry and population gets decimated and after your inevitable defeat you'll be forced to become cucked goyim servants for the next century

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>>35384273
>The south wasn't a capitalist society, it was a backward agrarian quasi-feudal society

Retarded strawman argument. America in general was an agrarian society. 75% of the population of America back then worked on farms. It was even more of an agrarian society in 1776. Capitalism is just businesses privately owned for profit which is what the south and the north were. They were both mostly capitalist societies.

>>35384275
>but leftism will only make things much worse. when will you leftards get that through >your thick peanut brains?

I'm not a leftist. I am just against libertardism, aka the political ideology of autists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xlmU9LvtAs

Capitalism is honestly no different from fascism. No matter how hard you work, you can never get on top anymore. It worked back then in the 60s 70s and 80s but now a days it doesn't work anymore.

>>35384533
Anon, no. Prostitution is socialism.

>>35384607
t. guy who never even tried

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>>35383646
Almost everyone here thinks corporatism is the same thing as capitalism

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>>35384370
Stasserism isn't Communism. And we don't have a truly capitalist society, it's called mixed economy.

Only free market Capitalism is true Capitalism and it didn't work very well when we had it. The industrial revolution just led to labor regulations, the Great Depression led to even strong union support, farm subsidies, banking regulations, etc.. Since the 70s, there's been a movement to deregulate and bust unions that has had only detrimental effects. The wealth inequality in this country has soared since the 70s and it's terrible for the economy. We have corporate welfare but what we need is wealth redistribution. Japan isn't communist or socialist but it has very little redistribution because their wages as balanced due to their protectionism. Socialist and Communist countries actually have very little redistribution and their shitholes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/feb/26/imf-inequality-economic-growth

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2014/sdn1402.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistribution_of_income_and_wealth#Role_in_economic_systems

>>35384721
>what we need is wealth distribution

oh geez I wonder what'll happen to all the rich super powerful people who don't want their wealth redistributed

Guess they'll just let it happen, right?

Fucking stupid idiot, you'd just ruin the country's economy and set the whole world into economic and political unrest.

What you can do is make improvements to the current mixed economy- push towards a more efficient mixed economy

when the invisible hand magically fixed everything

>>35384694
It is. Corporatism is the ultimate form of capitalism. Capitalism leads to megacorporations, it's inevitable.
The only way to stop that is seriously strong anti-monopoly laws. You've got regulate the shit out of the market and make it so that no company can deal in more than one product or service.
But then that wouldn't be capitalism.

>>35384607

why do you need to be at the very top? why are you not content with any improvement at all? the fact that there's any social mobility AT ALL is a goddamn modern miracle compared the rest of entire human history.

>>35384239
>assumes I'm a libertarian

Sorry, friendo, I'm a Western democratic-capitalist. Enjoy crying about spreading the wealth because you have none of your own.

Protip: eat shit.

>>35384801
Yeah but we don't have a true free market system right now. There is too much financial and banking regulation and red tape we need to cut since banks aren't able to efficiently allocate the capital in the economy. There needs to be less financial regulation to improve the allocation efficiency in the economy. More tax breaks should be given to businesses so they can create more jobs and stimulate the economy through research and development.

Once we fix these problems we'll have a more free market and the system will be more efficient and self-regulating.

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When i became a wagecuck

I don't know how people can actually justify the current state of the workplace structure.

>>35384565
Gary Johnson is a manchurian candidate sent to embarrass the libertarian party, that is black propaganda.

>>35384966
Jesus, this is pretty much the exact opposite that Smith himself argues.

People really need to read what he says about the invisible hand in context (he literally only mentions it once in the entire book though)

>>35384769
>oh geez I wonder what'll happen to all the rich super powerful people who don't want their wealth redistributed

The state will just change the laws so they can seize all their money. They're not doing anything with most of it other than harming the economy anyway.

>Fucking stupid idiot, you'd just ruin the country's economy and set the whole world into economic and political unrest.

The economy's been ruined by lack of distribution and cash flow time and time again and it will soon again, we're supposed to go into another recession very soon.

https://uneasymoney.com/2014/07/22/monetarism-and-the-great-depression/

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-coming-recession-cm568908


>push towards a more efficient mixed economy

Nice detailed description, just like your first point, bravo, so descriptive.

kys

>>35385006
The libertarian party does a fine job of embarrassing itself. Libertarians are just people who don't understand how taxes work.

>>35385028
>The state will just change the laws so they can seize all their money. They're not doing anything with most of it other than harming the economy anyway.

>inventing billions into varying sectors of the economy
>creating businesses and jobs so other people can make money
>RRRREEEEEE RICH PEOPLE ARE EVIL FOR NOT JUST FORKING OVER THEIR WEALTH TO EVERYONE

Fuck off. Nobody cares about your stupid doomsday shit. Every market goes through highs and lows. Sometimes the corrections are rough but everything always recovers in due time.

>>35385020
Yes I like his invisible hand metaphor but Smith believed in the Labor theory of value which detracts from the rest of his work. I prefer other neoclassical economists like Irving Fisher(his early work), Mises, Friedman, Rand, Hayek, etc.

>>35385067
>trickle down economics

Yeah...that's already been proven to not work very well. Many people don't even earn enough to live on their own and many people haven't seen a wage increase for many years. Most of the rich's money just sits in the bank so they can brag about how much they have.

> Every market goes through highs and lows. Sometimes the corrections are rough but everything always recovers in due time

I'm not talking about ending markets, I'm simply talking about wealth redistribution which is totally different. Lol, I bet you're scared your boss is gonna fire if you don't shill for him while he fucks your gf in his office. How much has trickled down to you? I haven't gotten any.

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>>35383646
Capitalism may suck but it's still leagues better than socialism

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>>35385160
Oh wow, we've got a junior college guy in here now. Go on, tell us more about your expertise gained through reading half a book by each person you named. Tell us more.

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>>35385028
>Let's just let the state buraucracy handle massive amounts of money that's being stolen from the ultra rich who definitely won't fight back or try to flee to other countries

HAHGAHGH

FUCKING HELL ANON THIS IS FUCKING PRE-BIRTH LEVEL BABBY TIER LOGIC FUCKK FUUAAHAHHAHAH


AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

>>35383646

Every economic system created by humans sucks. Humans are incredibly fallible and will likely never be able to organize a completely satisfactory government that appeases everyone. Capitalism just isn't as prone to crashing and burning as other economic systems, so it's the best we can do.

If you think the social castes enforced by capitalism is bad, then you've obviously never heard of communism. I'd rather tolerate the existence of homelessness and wealth inequality than be under the rule of a bunch of self-appointed dictators who can freely torture and murder anyone who questions their sovereignty.

>>35385199
>I'm simply talking about wealth redistribution which is totally different

OK, you can show us how much you believe in your own bullshit and go "redistribute" your wealth to the local homeless.

Trickle down is working pretty good for me man. Place to live, nice modern electronics, got a cat, enough time to shitpost. This system we've got now is working out pretty well for me.

When will you admit your whole "redistribute the wealth" schtick is just you being jealous that some people are born much better off than yourself?

>>35385244
>social castes enforced by capitalism

Huh, and here I thought one of the better points of capitalism is social mobility. Or do you view people who were born on the bottom as belonging to some "poor caste?"

>>35385244
>be under the rule of a bunch of self-appointed dictators who can freely torture and murder anyone who questions their sovereignty.

So capitalism?

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>>35385244
My man! Is there a name for this school of thought or did we both just pull it out of our ass?

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>>35384966

>banks aren't able to efficiently allocate the capital in the economy
>improve the allocation efficiency in the economy

what did he mean by this?

>>35384851
No it is not, it is totally different. Also for corporatism, you need some kind of government, or it will not be possible. Also, corporatism is closer to communism. For example: an company is going to fail, so government take the money they got from taxes and give to that company. That's why I support anarcho-capitalism (also English is not my main language so sorry for errors)

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Capitalism has dragged much of the world kicking and screaming out of decrepitude. Not being capitalist means allowing the state to confiscate property acquired through fair trade and a person's own effort which is extremely dubious. Marx's theories don't account for the complexity of the world and the problem of corruption which no one is immune to, not even your saintly leftist ideologues.

You might not like rich people, and I'm sure we would be better off without some of the super-rich who obtained their fortunes in an equally dubious manner, however the "99%" certainly should have the freedoms afforded by capitalism. Most of the top 1% shouldn't be bothered too much either. I'd go far as saying those who receive more in welfare than they pay in taxes might as well not pay taxes at all and small businesses should only pay a few specific taxes for government services they use.

>>35385383
Okay, so in the perfect capitalist system, what stops a small number of people from eventually hoarding all the wealth?
Nothing stops them. They do. And they form a group, a team, a conglomerate, a corporation or maybe they call themselves a government. It really doesn't matter what they call themselves. They would be capitalists and the ultimate goal is to control the resources.

>>35383646
It does, but communism sucks more
https://mises.org/library/hitlers-economics

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>>35385244
Here's my theory

Every political and economic system has a certain lifespan before it decays and collapses. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to create "workable systems" that can last a few generations.

The important thing is to not be utopian when creating a workable system. If you think you're going to create a utopia through the teachings of Ayn Rand or Karl Marx, you'll most likely fuck things up even worse.

>>35385300

that is a strong suit. class in capitalism is solely tied to income, and that has incredibly potential for variability compared to other systems. luck becomes a factor, yes, but being born is also a random element, and sometimes that's all it takes to be royally fucked for life in stricter caste systems. with capitalism, as long as you can acquire more money, you can move up the ranks.

there may be a hard limit on who can enter the upper echelons, but social mobility in the lower echelons is still relatively flexible.

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>>35385479
>"oops dropped some"
>he believes in trickle down

>>35385241
Why? Switzerland did it. They have a wealth tax and laws about assets.

>A progressive wealth tax that varies by residence location. Most cantons have no wealth tax for individual net worth less than CHF 100,000 and progressively raise the tax rate on net assets with a top rate ranging from 0.13% to 0.94% depending on canton and municipality of residence.[9] Wealth tax is levied against worldwide assets of Swiss residents, but it is not levied against assets in Switzerland held by non-residents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax#Current_examples

>>35385265

>OK, you can show us how much you believe in your own bullshit and go "redistribute" your wealth to the local homeless.

I only keep the bare minimum I need for expenses after taxes, the rest I donate to my local church group and I give old junk to them to give to other people. I'm a farmer, I grow food and sell it to people on the open market and give away to the need regularly.

>Trickle down is working pretty good for me man. Place to live, nice modern electronics, got a cat, enough time to shitpost. This system we've got now is working out pretty well for me.

Yes, I'm sure your studio apartment, outdated computer, and rabies ridden cat are great.

>When will you admit your whole "redistribute the wealth" schtick is just you being jealous that some people are born much better off than yourself?

Born? As in they inherit stuff they never earned? Yeah, so much better m8. I can guarantee you wouldn't be saying this is you were born poor.

>>35385244
>under the rule of a bunch of self-appointed dictators who can freely torture and murder anyone who questions their sovereignty.
You're already under that. The rich can get away with whatever they want.

Communism and brutal, bloody dictatorship do not go hand in hand. Communism was used as an excuse.

>>35385492
Did you ever heard of private army? If a company can produce unlimited amounts of objects without paying any taxes, it will do everything to protect this. And others can protect this too, even if they can't pay for an entire army they will have guns.

>>35384546
Thats not how fascism works i dont think

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>Lower class pleb cuck detected

>>35385520
>Mises
>Austrian economy school
That's a pretty good source anon

>>35383970
>tfw was never a commie but slightly liberal as a teenager
Thank fuck I'm not anymore

>>35385534
where did I mention "trickle down", you are seeing things

>>35385558

>Communism and brutal, bloody dictatorship do not go hand in hand.

How do you know this? Because literally every instance of it in recorded history has proven this to be true.

You're decrying capitalism because our current single iteration of it is corrupt, yet are saying that MULTIPLE instances of the fall of societies based on corrupt communist policy are not a valid basis for decrying communism.

Why?

>>35385568
fascism literally requires a warlike expansive mentality or it doesn't work

It's fascism 101, why do you think both germany and italy both willingly jumped right into WW2?

>>35385549
>using switzerland as an example of anything

they're so far off in terms of economic composition and population than any other western country that it's a completely unrealistic example

Try applying that system in the US and watch the entire country burn

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>>35385590
Kek

Austrian economics is literally witchcraft

>>35385479
Cool, good thing we don't have actual capitalism and when we did it just led to the labor movement which is why there are labor regulations such as outlawing child labor and it's also why labor unions are a thing. We have a mixed economy and have for over 100 years cause of how shitty the Laissez-faire free markets system turned out.

>>35385549
>I only keep the bare minimum

Found the problem. Maybe if you saved your wealth and invested it you'd taste the sweet middle class life and stop bawling about how everyone else is evil for not giving their hard earned money away.

>>35383646
It's basically Chad taking money like he takes women.

>>35383646
Americunts will get it soon. They think that building a wall and elect a meme will save the country and bring it back to some decades ago, they are wrong, soooo wrong.

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>>35383646
kys commie scum

>>35384182

t. V.V.

>>35385713
Enjoy mewling about the fact we're about to shove the EU's shit in for being such a cunt for decades. I really hope we just leave them entirely on their own, withdraw all our troops in the regions, shut down our bases, pull out of NATO, and watch the EU squeal about MUH RUSSIANS while they slit their own faggot throats.

>>35385563
You want anarchy, then? You want a company to march around with it's private army, taking things away from people at the barrel of a gun? Sure, others can protect their shit with guns but they have to source those guns and bullets from somewhere. And a few people with guns are no match for an army. You'll either give the company all you have or you'll die.
You're going to get a lot of slavery like that.

From a purely ethical viewpoint, socialism is better than capitalism.

>>35385694
I'm perfectly content with my own life but unlike you I have a soul. I don't want the middle class suburbanite life being surrounded by the walls of a cubicle. I already gave the IMF report conforming severe wealth inequality is bad for the economy, and I'm not saying everyone has to have equal wealth, but some should be redistributed to the lessers as a net benefit of society.

I bought I own farm, I didn't inherit it. I grew up in middle class suburbia and was practically suicidal until I moved out. I worked my ass off at several wageslave mcjobs and didn't spend a penny of my earned money until I bought the farm. It's a small farm out in the hinterland, but I much prefer it. I didn't have to spend for years because I lived with my parents who gave me allowances. Not everyone has that luxury.

>>35385747
>you HAVE to like capitalism or else you're a bolshevik partisan stalinist terrorist.

what's with this /pol/ type of thinking?

>>35383646
probably around the age of edgy 14 when i realized pretty much everything sucks a lot

>>35385622
Ideal, fantasy capitalism is just as sinister as corrupt capitalism.
Ideal, fantasy communism is leagues better than corrupt communism, albeit pretty stagnant.

Fuck it. Both suck. Get the philosophers working on a new system.

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>>35385817
>Op posts image of Lenin
>not a commie
I'm not falling for your tricks

>>35385816
>I didn't have to spend for years because I lived with my parents who gave me allowances

Found the problem.

Also it's a great thing all those mcjobs existed so you could eventually afford your own private property, isn't it? Oh wait, what you want is for the state to chop up your property so the poors can waste it between themselves.

>>35385817
The picture of Lenin probably had something to do with it

>>35385817
Because we know better. There's nothing that has worked better than capitalism. Even China and Vietnam have spread their yellow legs for the almighty dollar.

You're either a capitalist or an enemy of the Western way of life. Choose, faggot.

>>35385866
No mcjob would pay enough for someone to afford their own private property.

>>35385684
>actual capitalism
Capitalism is private ownership of capital or the "means of production".

Also in the 19th century child labor was the norm all over the globe and capitalist America was among the first to ban it, it is irrational to pin the blame on capitalism.

>>35385634
>they're so far off in terms of economic composition and population than any other western country that it's a completely unrealistic example

Literally wtf are you even talking about?

>Try applying that system in the US and watch the entire country burn

Why would the country burn? Most Americans aren't millionaires and many people already rely on welfare programs funded by the taxes of others, food stamps don't work well cause you're limited on how much of what and what you can even buy with them. A wealth tax would redistribute more actual money to the poor who can engage more in the market and be more successful.

I like how you won't go into detail about how this alleged country burning will take place.

Most of the rich's money literally sits in the bank and is never used. A wealth tax incentivizes them to use it or lose it, as in investing more into job creation and wage raises, and if they don't, it won't matter with a wealth tax that will just take a chunk from them.

We also need to pass laws about offshore wealth hoarding like Switzerland did with its citizens.

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>>35383646
When I was trying to get into punk rock. Then I got a job and realized only retarded poor people complain about capitalism.

>>35385794
Not going to mention there are multiple companies, and they are going to fight.

>>35385927
>capitalist America was among the first to ban it
Capitalist America was among the first accept an anti-capitalist idea like child labour was wrong?
Would that be admitting that capitalism needs socialism?

>>35385866
I said that was because of my parents were pretty much subsidizing my living so I could save...

dumbass

>>35385927

>Also in the 19th century child labor was the norm all over the globe and capitalist America was among the first to ban it, it is irrational to pin the blame on capitalism.

Yep, and we stopped being truly capitalist cause of it huh?

>it is irrational to pin the blame on capitalism.

It's exactly what led to abusive child labor. Adults wouldn't do certain tasks so they had kids do it cause they can be manipulated.

http://www2.needham.k12.ma.us/nhs/cur/Baker_00/2002_p7/ak_p7/childlabor.html

>>35385672
So you're going to follow Keynes "economy" that fucked up America after the big crash?

>>35385933
Jesus fucking christ are you really this fucking dumb?

Switzerland is a tiny country with a tiny economy. It survives on tourism, rich people deciding they want to live there and their banks.

A massive economic producer, importer, exporter like the US would die without the megacorporations employing the population and producing product to export to the rest of the world.

The instant your (((rules))) go into effect all the big corporations and companies leave the country en masse and the US becomes an india tier fourth world shithole

Systems like Switzerland can ONLY exist because of the larger global capitalist economic system. If Switzerland was closed off to the outside world it would collapse economically in a mattter of weeks

Just like Sweden and the other european socialist paradises can only exist because the US and other more powerful countries with armies and nukes keep them safe so they don't have to spend on things like defense and can just waste it all on social programs

kys

What's so bad about merging the two and stopping the fighting? Let some cunts control the means of production. But make them provide completely for their workers. No tiny minimum wage. Everyone gets a home, plenty of food, a qt wife, and all the comforts they want.

>>35386012

why fight when they can merge and become a supercompany? it's not like there's laws or anything that would stop that. and both would reap a net benefit in that they're not destroying each others' property and they both essentially double their assets and influence.

>>35385794
And also capitalism is inferior than communism in an ethnic point, but not in an economical point, because on communism/socialism everyone is poor.

>>35384457
That depends what you mean by "capitalism".
There's a huge amount wrong with keeping capital scarce so that the profits flow to those who supply the money rather than those who actually do the work.

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>>35383926
>when russia and Kazakhstan are the most polluted countries on earth

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>>35385381
By allocating efficiently, It means money is being spent in a way to maximise the aggregate utility (ie happiness) of the economy.

When you cut red tape surrounding financial institutions it gives them the ability to make rational decisions in which everyone inevitably benefits. That's what deregulation is all about. Ultimately it's all about letting businesses conduct business which in the end makes the economy run more efficiently

pic related

>>35386089
If they do that they cannot take taxes from people if they don't want a bunch of people trying to kill them. Also, it will be very difficult

>>35386098
>everyone is poor.
Doesn't that depend how you define poor? You need rich people for there to be poor people.
What would the people be poor in comparison to? They would have a fair share of everything, they would have what they need. Theoretically.

>>35386050
America was fucked up before the big crash.
Afterwards it failed to properly recover because your idiotic "debt ceiling" legislation prevented the government from implementing a proper Keynesian stimulus.

>>35385933

>Most of the rich's money literally sits in the bank and is never used.

that is so wrong it hurts. why do people always say this? they're rich because they're making lucrative investments with their money. rate of returns on idle money sitting in a bank is fucking nothing. they make big bucks by making trades and stimulating industries that they're invested in. that is not "not using" it.

and guess what? even money that IS sitting doing "nothing" in the bank is being used, because that bank is lending said money to people that need it, allowing for spending they wouldn't have originally been able to do, thereby stimulating the economy.

>>35386051
>
Switzerland is a tiny country with a tiny economy. It survives on tourism, rich people deciding they want to live there and their banks.

Literally makes no difference.

>
The instant your (((rules))) go into effect all the big corporations and companies leave the country en masse and the US becomes an india tier fourth world shithole

No they wouldn't. A wealth tax would only be applied to individual people, not corporations. They sure as hell weren't leaving in the 50s and 60s when income tax rates were the highest they ever were.

>Systems like Switzerland can ONLY exist because of the larger global capitalist economic system. If Switzerland was closed off to the outside world it would collapse economically in a mattter of weeks

Not being the EU sure doesn't hurt Switzerland, cause they have wealth redistribution that's stronger than what's in the US and they're fine. You don't hear about the rich people there trying to flee.

>Just like Sweden and the other european socialist paradises can only exist because the US and other more powerful countries with armies and nukes keep them safe so they don't have to spend on things like defense and can just waste it all on social programs

Wow, so we take better care of other countries so they can take of their own people while we don't so much take care of our own?

>>35386162
>Theoretically
You said everything. The difference is that they will become even poorer until an economical crisis happens

>>35386189
Why lend when you can give.

>>35386156

sure they can. they just doubled the size of their army, both doubling the capacity for their tax collection efforts AND the means to defend against threats targeting themselves.

>>35385684
>good thing we don't have actual capitalism

Jesus Christ, i hope you people are underage, because some of you are really dumb.

>>35386169
"the immediate political response to the current financial crisis in the Western World was inspired by TGT. A second Great Depression was to be prevented and Keynes's insights applied. Governments engaged in loose monetary policy combined with fiscal stimulus in response to what, through Keynesian eyes, appeared to be a bubble caused by reckless speculation, which was in turn inspired by animal spirits. Thus, even if Rallo's book were just a summary of the old arguments against TGT, the moment for publication would be more than appropriate, since the ideas of the past are still the praxis of the present."

https://mises.org/library/errors-keynes

>>35386228

>why offer someone the option of borrowing something you own as long as they promise to return it when they can just steal it from you instead?

a rather complex moral quandary

>>35386189
>that is so wrong it hurts. why do people always say this

Because it's true dumbass. It their money was moving around so swiftly and "stimulating industries" then why haven't so many people's wages gone up? Why do poor people persist to exist?

Actual experts sharply disagree with you.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/rich-americans-hoarding-cash_n_3720941.html

>>35386245

Jesus Christ, i hope you people are underage, because some of you are really dumb cause we have a mixed economy and not pure capitalism.

>>35386314
And where the flying titty fuck did I say steal?

Give. No-one's making anyone lend money. No-one would be making you give. Give instead of lend.
Lending is merely a way to enslave people to debt. If it was really about stimulating the economy and investing and all that bullshit, the it would be given to people as a long-term investment in humanity.

>>35386047
Kids should get a job and earn a wage instead of sitting on the internet.
Stops lazt twat kids.

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>>35386202
>literally makes no difference

YOU

FUCKING

IMBECILE

The rich control the corporations

the corporations control the economy

"redistribute" the wealth and the rich people and corporations leave

How to ruin your country's economy and make it insignificant politically 101

If your rules went into effect you'd single handedly destroy the entire US and north american economy, while all the big business and rich people would move to russia or china, or whichever country made itself more attractive as the world's new economic capital

The 50s and 60s literally only worked because there was no other nations in the world the rich and the corporations could run to. Russian and china were communist shitholes and any country of significance in the western world had the same tax regulations. If taxes were raised to past rates now, literally the entire US economy packs up and moves to russia or china.

You're a fucking stupid retarded communist buffoon who had your brain sucked out your ass when your mom tried to abort you as a child

Literally, unironically, please fucking kill yourself. There are not enough atoms in the entire fucking universe to form enough paper to properly describe how much better off the entire world would be better off without you and your shit tier retarded ass ideas that are literally destroying the civilized world

GO

FUCKING

KILL YOURSELF

COMMIE

SHITHEAD

>mfw there are people who unironically defend (((porkie))) capitalists
Rothbard and Friedman would be proud goy

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>>35386332
It's because of regulation. You need to cut regulations that's why big finance isn't able to do it's job and move money around properly which would allow the economy to produce at maximum capacity.

>>35386532
Cut regulations and big companies will cut wages.

They won't behave responsibly. They won't do good things for the good of all. The only thing that ensures the majority of us get close to the living wage is due to tight government regulation.

>>35386031
>>35386047
Again capitalism is private ownership of capital. Child labor is unrelated to it abstractly and also in the real world, countries that have had child labor laws for over 100 years are still capitalist and doing fine as >>35385684 essentially says.

You see children in sweatshops, but rather than blame the immoral owner of that particular business you blame capitalism in its entirety. Why? So some children went from working on a farm to working in a textile mill over 100 years ago. What does this have to do with the guy who started his own motorcycle oriented garage from scratch or the lady with a brand of organic fermented sauerkraut?

The moral question is how much does society's values and laws contribute to the world's ills. Any individual or the state could decide "fuck it" and break the law or otherwise do something immoral and benefit from it. Yet you scold capitalism alone.

The facts speak for themselves. Child labor existed before societies became predominantly capitalist and after an educated middle class developed in a capitalist system they railed against it and got it banned. Capitalism really isn't the devil you think it is.

>>35386364

giving is an investment

simply giving money to people without money is not a guarantee that they will use it efficiently, since the fact that they have no money means they either do not have experience with handling it or they actively use it poorly

someone who makes poor investments loses their money

someone who loses all of their money can't give people money

ergo, lending

>>35386457
YOU

FUCKING

IMBECILE

>the corporations control the economy

For the rich's benefit

>"redistribute" the wealth and the rich people and corporations leave

Why? It's not the corporations wealth that's going anywhere it's the peoples. And don't tell me most of their money goes into their corporations cause it doesn't. Taking corporations and jobs away just so a few people can keep more unnecessary amounts of money would just make them look bad and they'd get boycotted, causing competitors to move in and capitalize to the point of diminishing the other corporation's influence.

There's a lot of ways around this desu.

>How to ruin your country's economy and make it insignificant politically 101

Idk m8, there's a lot of international business done in European countries with strong wealth redistribution. I wouldn't call them politically insignificant.

>If your rules went into effect you'd single handedly destroy the entire US and north american economy, while all the big business and rich people would move to russia or china, or whichever country made itself more attractive as the world's new economic capital.

Cool, I hope they fuck up their countries too with severe inequality that's detrimental to their economies.

>The 50s and 60s literally only worked because there was no other nations in the world the rich and the corporations could run to.

>During this time, there was high worldwide economic growth; Western European and East Asian countries in particular experienced unusually high and sustained growth, together with full employment. Contrary to early predictions, this high growth also included many countries that had been devastated by the war, such as Japan (Japanese post-war economic miracle), West Germany (Wirtschaftswunder), France (Trente Glorieuses), Italy (Italian economic miracle), and Greece (Greek economic miracle).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_economic_expansion

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>>35384182
Cease the observance of manufactured lewd images

>>35386532

Financial regulations exist because of shit like the Great Depression. There's reasons why we haven't had a recession as bad as that ever since. A few decades prior to the Great Depression there was the Long Depression, there were also several panics in the 1800s and early 1900s that led to regulation like the Federal Trade Commission, antitrust laws, etc.

>>35386635

This, private businesses are entirely about profit and nothing else.

>>35386635
I don't think you understand basic economics. Economies are just exchanges of goods and services. If you get in the way of people exchanging goods and services through regulation you create inefficiencies in the market place which translates into higher prices for the things you and I want to buy - because goods and services aren't able to be exchanged for the agreed upon price.

That's why we need to get rid of the minimum wage.

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>>35386532

Yeah, those pooooor companies. The only reason they're paying everyone shit is because of those mean old regulations! If we removed regulations, we'd be flung forward into utopia because private interests have only the public at heart!

Those regulations didn't just fall out of the sky because people thought it would be funny to fuck over "big finance". They didn't exist since the dawn of business. We already lived in a world without them. They came about precisely BECAUSE things didn't work out without them.

Are you poor? Hell, are you middle class? If you are, and you honestly want corporate regulations to go away, you are the biggest retard in any given room. It would not improve your life.

>>35386847
Do you really think that prices would go down if there was no minimum wage?
The minimum wage, in pretty much every country that has one, is extremely low, as it is.

Really, how would letting companies get away with paying people even less be a good thing?

>>35386847
>Let's decriminalize fraud

>>35386765
Oh wew fucking lad the rich look out for their own interests. Next you'll tell me they're people who put their own self interest over the needs of others. WEW.

Most of fucking western manufacturing has already moved to china you fucking nigger tier shitbrain. Before that happened, china was a shit tier communist heap of starving farmers. Literally fucking hang yourself if you actually think all the rich industrialists of the west would ruin China or Russia instead of improving them.

All your shitty international business being done in commie europe is predicated on american control of the global economy. Go fucking kill yourself

OF COURSE THERE WAS ECONOMIC GROWTH POST WAR. LITERALLY ENTIRE COUNTRIES NEEDED TO BE REBUILT AND REPOPULATED. OF COURSE THE ECONOMY WAS BOOMING. THAT'S LIKE BEING SURPRISED WHEN INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE THEIR STOCKS FALL AFTER A MAJOR DISASTER.


JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

YOU'RE SO DENSE

SO FUCKING DENSE

WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION

DOES

NOT

WORK

ON

A

LARGE

SCALE

AND

NEVER

WILL

GO

FUCKING

KILL

YOUR

SELF

>>35386909
He's retarded.

The problem with the minimum wage is it's not adjusted for inflation. It originally was but some dumb shills decided to make it fixed.

http://www.epi.org/publication/given-the-economys-growth-the-federal-minimum-wage-could-be-significantly-higher/

Anyone who dislikes capitalism is a fucking retard and going to hell when they die, which can't be soon enough.

>>35387006
So right desu

>>35386967
>Oh wew fucking lad the rich look out for their own interests. Next you'll tell me they're people who put their own self interest over the needs of others. WEW.

You were the one telling me they run the economy and create jobs. You just contradicted yourself.

>Most of fucking western manufacturing has already moved to china you fucking nigger tier shitbrain

Most of it hasn't actually, only a few example have been intensified in media coverage to give the appearance of a lot of it moving.

>All your shitty international business being done in commie europe is predicated on american control of the global economy.

That doesn't explain why? Also, you're a neocon shill.

>>35384075

Flaming hot cheetos were developed by a single janitor. Read the story behind it, it's pretty cool and shows just how capitalism works. Hard work is rewarded, the exact opposite of the elitist class based society communism supports.

>>35387085
>Cheetos were invented in 1948 by Fritos creator Charles Elmer Doolin, who cooked early test batches in the Frito Company's Dallas, Texas-based research and development kitchen. The cheese-flavored snack sold quickly, but Doolin did not have the production or distribution capacity to support a nationwide launch. This led Doolin to partner with potato chip businessman Herman W. Lay for marketing and distribution, and Cheetos were introduced nationally in the U.S. in 1948 along with a potato product called Fritatos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetos

>>35386909
>Do you really think that prices would go down if there was no minimum wage?

Yes

Also minimum wage hurts the poor people the most. If only common sense economists like Milton Friedman were alive today and we could cut some of the laws hindering the development of our businesses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCUoZkDxnfE

>>35387085
>hard work
>not LUCK
Success is 99% opportunity, 1% start-up funds.

>>35387085
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-flamin-hot-cheetos-are-sending-kids-to-er/

You know what else? ERs take care of people and charge the government which pays with people tax dollars.

>>35387182
>Also minimum wage hurts the poor people the most
How? How are you reasoning this?

Oh, you're not one of those idiots who thinks it stifles a poor person's ambition, right? Do you believe that if there was no minimum wage and poor people were paid in actual peanuts then it would inspire them to work harder and get a higher paying job?
You're going to get a lot more homeless like that.

>>35387081
Running the economy is in their best interests you daft communist fuckbucket

Oh I guess all the products with the labels "made in china" were just faked by the fucking media you stupid cumstain shit

You literally don't understand how the US, the biggest capitalist economy in the world is the basis for all other world economies and their survivals would be shit without it?

Did someone cut open your scull and take a massive shit inside?

>thinking I'm a neocon

kys

>>35387146

Very interesting how you looked up the story behind fritatos. Now look up the story behind what we are talking about.

>>35387228

You know what else? My dick takes care of your butthole.

You have a poor understanding of the ER. I guess that must be the HAND kicking in.In 1st world countries the ER doesn't bill anyone, the hospital does. The hospital doesn't bill the government, it bills the customer.

>>35387329
>Running the economy is in their best interests you daft communist fuckbucket

But the economy is more than them and they only exist to profit while many other people stay stagnant despite providing the labor that allows the rich to stay rich.

>Oh I guess all the products with the labels "made in china" were just faked by the fucking media you stupid cumstain shit

Really not all that much is made in China, people just have a confirmation bias cause their chairs in school had Made in China on them or something like that.

>
You literally don't understand how the US, the biggest capitalist economy in the world is the basis for all other world economies and their survivals would be shit without it?

We're not capitalist, we're a mixed economy, and we don't run other countries economies, we shill for them with our military by fighting in foreign wars.

>thinking I'm a neocon
>kys

Everything you're arguing in favor of is neocon dogma.

>>35387466
Public hospitals have to accept all emergency care situations regardless of ability to pay. private hospitals can't turn ER patients away but they can still charge the patient afterwards.

http://law.freeadvice.com/malpractice_law/hospital_malpractice/hospital-patients.htm

>>35387511
Of course it isn't a perfect system you wankstain because people are by their nature imperfect, but it's literally the only system that has ever worked and that's not going to change until technology is so advanced that human labour is obselete

I'm just in favor of common fucking sense and capitalism, where did I mention that we should invade foreign countries?

KILL

YOUR

SELF

FAG

>>35387616

Cool, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or what we're talking about. Maybe if you weren't such a lazy piece of shit commy you wouldn't need free law advice on how to scam people with frivolous lawsuits. Get a job, hippy.

>>35387632
We don't have capitalism, it's a mixed economy with socialist aspects. We historically had actual capitalism but it died over a hundred years ago when we started having labor regulations like banning slavery and child labor and giving unions a say.

>until technology is so advanced that human labour is obsolete

Lol, you just shot yourself in the foot. When automation takes over we'll have no choice but wealth redistribution which is the very thing you've been arguing against.

>where did I mention that we should invade foreign countries?

You keep speaking of how our military is used in the global economy, it's coercion by a government force which is antithetical to capitalist free market principles itself. But apparently it's okay cause other countries are free to provide for their own citizens properly while we don't. I'm sure all the Americans born into poverty are proud.

KILL

YOUR

SELF

FAG

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>>35383646
KYS, faggot

origamitastic

>>35387757
I said:

>You know what else? ERs take care of people and charge the government which pays with people tax dollars.

And then you said:

>You have a poor understanding of the ER. I guess that must be the HAND kicking in.In 1st world countries the ER doesn't bill anyone, the hospital does. The hospital doesn't bill the government, it bills the customer.

And then:

>>35387616

You can't even keep track of the conversation lmfao.

>>35387782
Holy fucking shit how could one person be so fucking stupid. Our economy is still built on human labor you stupid faggot. Our economy may have socialist elements but those elements are all built upon and FUNDED BY what... A CAPITALIST SEMI FREE MARKET ECONOMY. The state isn't generating it's own fucking income for welfare and social programs, those all come from the corporations and citizens you stupid nigger.

I was talking about how our military kept smaller countries with weak armies like Sweden from getting fucking invaded by Russia. Without US defense spending all the socialist Utopias in Europe would have to actually spend more than a couple pennies on defense and then there goes the socialist dream.

How did I fucking shoot myself in the foot? Capitalism is based on the principal of private property and human labor. If humans all of a sudden aren't needed to produce almost anything outside of entertainment, media and a few specialized extremely small aspects of industry and novelty luxury items, capitalism as a system will literally be unable to function. Because capitalism does not work when human labor is no longer valuable, because if everything is made by a bunch of robots and nobody has any jobs they won't have any money to spend on anything and fuel the economy.

I'm not fucking stupid I can see where technology is headed and that there is a very real possibility of human labor driven economies becoming obselete. In which case a system like basic income payed for by increased taxes would have to be agreed upon by the rich and the large corporations, otherwise nobody would be able to afford their shit and the economy would collapse.


END

YOUR

LIFE

SENPAI

>>35387814

Weird.
Even with the posts right in front of you, you are unable to follow and understand them.

This is why we stay away from drugs, kids.

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>>35383646
The moment I got a job I claim the right to be lazy famalamadingdong
Situationism International all the way bucko

>>35387254
Did you even watch the video? I mean seriously

If you're a jobless NEET, part of the reason for it is the minimum wage. Get rid of it and employers will be more willing to hire you which will help you get work experience which will in turn lead to a higher salary and a more productive economy.

>>35386279
It may have been inspired by the General Theory, but it stopped very far short of what was needed, and then governments began doing the exact opposite of what was needed.

The Austrian School morons obsessively argue about trivialities (such as whether Keynes's GT actually disproves Say's Law) but disregard the far more important point that economic downturns are easily counteracted. But they're so dumb they think markets are perfect. They don't care about human suffering just as long as the rich keep getting rewarded for being rich. They like recessions because of the signals they send to the market - though of course they overlook the fact that such signals are based on short term problems and provide no long term benefit.

And as for Rallo's criticism that the article you linked to states "More precisely, for Keynes to be right you need voluntary unemployment of all factors of production plus idle capacity in consumer goods' industries", there are some very obvious logical errors:
1) The unemployment need not be voluntary.
2) It need not even be unemployment: underemployment is sufficient.
3) People are capable of moving between sectors of the economy, and often do.

>>35389377
Getting rid of the minimum wage is one of the many ways that employers will be more willing to hire you. But considering the impact that would have on poorly paid workers, wouldn't it be better to go with one of the other alternatives instead?

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when I took a genetic test and learned that I don't have the genetics to succeed in the colonial economy and when my family and I died of schizophrenia or dementia

https://youtu.be/86cxIMDBtp8

it's kind of ironic that it was taboo or rude for me to talk in this fashion, but white people are allowed to talk in this way now e.x. "social capital" -- Bill Kristol

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>>35389958

at least you have a comfy lecture hall with heating, and lamps!

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>dude the US didnt get rich from the free market we've never really had a free market we've always been protectionist
>but the current state of the US economy is the fault of the free market

?????

i love cognitive dissonance

>>35389958

lol, she should major in STEM to improve her condition

should be easy

I did really bad on an IQ test and am a loser. Its funny that if I were a winner I would probably be a capitalist, but I didn't choose to be a failure at life, God did. I'm ugly and stupid and don't know how to make friends and society made me its bitch, I'm going to die alone as a virgin, the least society can do is gibmedats

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>>35390619

if you're non-white then your brain metabolizes glucose too fast, therefore you can't maintain prolonged concentration and build up knowledge for a profession

>>35383667
nice pinochet autism

>>35390747
Yeah exactly. You are right. I know my life is a mistake, whats worst is I know I'm too dumb to serve a function or purpose in this society. If you asked my dad what he's most proud of from his son, he'd probably say graduating from high school... how pathetic is that!!! Being low IQ and liking capitalism don't mix. You can't really blame me for hating the system can you?

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>>35390788

your IQ would be seen as normal if it weren't for colonization

some people don't respect the "Prime Directive"

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>>35390788
>>35390619
>>35389958
>>35390202
>>35390747
>>35390821

are you planning something sinister?

>>35385549
>>35385816
how to get into this? I'm going to community college soon but all I really want to do is have a homestead life

I have no experience

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>>35383646
Never, you absolute faggot, I grew out of fagunism at a young age.

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>>35383646
Also communism sucks

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Be careful. They're trying to manipulate you.

>>35387944
You literally just affirmed everything I've said.

>The state isn't generating it's own fucking income for welfare and social programs, those all come from the corporations and citizens you stupid nigger.

>what is taxation

You're so triggered lmfao

somewhere between 9/11 and benghazi

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>>35383646
Never. Go back to your shitty country, Commie.

If you're not from some other shitty country, then you are free to leave and go find one that suits you. We have perfectly good Mexicans waiting to legally come over and contribute to our economy. We don't need some Commie asshat spreading bullshit everywhere he steps. This is America, goddammit.

>>35390940
Do you have a job? I had some shitty minimum wage ones but I saved by having living with my parents for years. You can learn how to farm from 4H if you're still under 21, look into agricultural extension programs and the federal farm credit program so you can buy a plot of farmland.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Farmer-Loans

>>35391071
thanks very much! I'll see what I can do, because I sure as hell don't want to work in a cubicle either

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>>35391032

dude, IQ regression toward the mean

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>>35391032

only let in Europeans

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>>35390619

you need Jesus, Jesus suffered like you

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>>35391350

I can't relate to the Bible. The Bible was written for and by Caucasians.

old testament - Hebrew (green area)
new testament - Greek (green area)

i'm from yellow and blue

>>35391399
The New Testament was written for all humans, regardless of race.
The Old Testament was written primarily for Jews, but there's still something in it for everyone.

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>>35383698
If your entyre famli dyed how arr u alive?? Are yuo gohst?

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>>35391530

it's just a philosophy and i doubt the authors knew about the existence of Amerindians and Australoids

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>>35391650

And who knows what crooked shit they did to the Bible to add in some hint that they did know about them

"maritime something bullshit"

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>>35391650
>>35391797

Are you a filthy Muslim terrorist?

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>>35391834

https://youtu.be/RoqgYfaSpnE
https://youtu.be/AOe4mkzBdCs

>>35390970
kek, reminds me of those purges Stalin did prior to WW2 where he killed off about most of his experienced and competent officers.

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>>35383970
16-17 then I was a socialist until I was around 18-19

>>35391650
No it's not just a philosphy. As well as philosophy there's theology, allegory, history and prophecy. And even a bit of poetry.

And the authors didn't have to know about every race of people who it's for. When something's for all people, race is irrelevant.

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>posed as a college student to join the Young Democratic Socialists when I was 15
>went to a handful of meetings at the local Community Party of the United States' chapter when I was 16 to get free booze and the occasional subsidized trip to Chicago
>have a "Capitalism Sucks" button I picked up at a rally in Washington, D.C.

>moved on past my shady leftist phase and am now a functional human being
>still lean towards the left

>yelled at my Russian boss last summer about how he was exploiting my labor

>tfw forever a closet gommie

Pic related - it's me in my backyard when I was 15 or 16. I didn't have any friends back then, so I put my camera up on a railing and set the timer.

Poor people in capitalist societies still have much higher quality of lives than the vast majority of the rest of the world

>>35392279
Surprise surprise commies are always the weird outcasts.

>>35392455

I have a lot of friends now, Anon, I swear!

>>35392461
You're also admittedly less communist now.

I'm not saying correlation implies causation, but where theres smoke theres fire.