Manliness thread

>>35143237
I'm actually pretty manly. Tall, broad shoulders and beard (shitty muslim-tier beard but still). I'd like to get over my laziness and exercise eventually, I assume it's the key to being manlier

I'm short than you and never had problems feeling manly. I am into all the typical manly things.

Feeling manly is more about your attitude than your physical features.

>>35143237
>but Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star represents this ideal very well

I do not believe any of your classmates are anything like Kenshiro.

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>>35143288
According to Dostoevsky from "Notes from the Underground", people have an innate desire for freedom, even if it's detrimental to them. People will go out of their way to establish their will over a system, even if it they benefit entirely from said system.

Masculine people have embodied this trait. Masculinity is about forcing your way through things, being unstopped and undeterred. Kenshiro takes this figurative meaning and translates it literally.

Now what does this have to do with ACTUALLY being masculine in the real world? In essence, masculine people are looked up to. They represent the how to answer people's how. People want to BE masculine, they want to have masculine friends, spouses, family.

Kenshiro represents both masculinity and other ideal traits alongside it. He is not a spiteful person, he is not filled with hate, he values what's important in life (your loved ones) and has dogged determination and perseverance to protect and reacquire them.

Masculinity = happiness, will, power, strength, defense

Femininity = enviousness, greed, selfishness, spitefulness, miserliness, self-pity, indulgence.

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>>35143662
I know that but I'm saying Kenshiro exclusively represents ideal masculinity. My classmates who are masculine share SOME of the traits. That being they are not spiteful people, are friendly. Genetics wise, masculine, tall people tend to have better genes and are better nourished as well. How on Earth was it ever believed that beta traits were ever good?

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>>35143237
I am 5'8 and wish I was born 6'6 something.

Yes it's exagerrated, but tall people always give out a sort of scary feeling towards shorter people, like being taller gives instant superiority.
Basically I am a lazy cunt and I don't want to work for respect from people.

Also, menacing in the outside but cute and cudly in the inside is sort of my fetish.

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>>35143634
What are the sort of manly things you're interested in?

>>35143756
Raoh fits better with your

>People will go out of their way to establish their will over a system

description.

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>>35143758
Exactly. Who the fuck would prefer looking cute and cuddly on the OUTSIDE but menacing on the inside vs. looking menacing on the outside and being cuddly on the inside.

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>>35143797
Yeah, but my idea of masculinity isn't just that. It's also being a good, moral, just person. Raoh of course is very masculinity, and probably paints a more realistic portrait of high test people throughout people like Khan, Attila, etc. High test people are generally immoral/pay no regards to morality. Kenshiro uses his masculinity for the good, to protect his faithful wife. (who herself, therefore represents ideal femininity, which shows that both gender ideals are paired together)

Anyone here listen to Jordan B Peterson? I just realized that the story of Kenshiro is sort of like the story of Odysseus. Odysseus went on an adventure back from Troy to save his FAITHFUL wife from pretenders to the throne, almost EXACTLY like Kenshiro! ITS A META STORY. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO APPEALING!

5 11 chubby and hates confrontation. My problem is probably my weight and lack of physical strength, no one gives two shits about your manliness and dominance if you ain't got the body to back that up

>>35143777

I grew up on a farm in a rural area.

>hunting/fishing
>carpentry
>guns
>cars/motorcycles

>>35143758
>Yes it's exagerrated, but tall people always give out a sort of scary feeling towards shorter people, like being taller gives instant superiority.

Eh, NOPE! That's just you pathetic 5'8 retards who have massive insecurities about height.

I'm way shorter than you and I'm not intimidated by neither you nor any taller guy.

Why is it always you average height faggots that are the most insecure?

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>tfw 6'4 but kinda feminine face
That's a bad feel.

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>>35143931

Because it's average. It's not short, it's not tall. I'm neither one thing nor the other.

If I was really short, it could be a defining trait, maybe even something to take pride on, maybe joke around about it, even if I would despise it.

Being average just means you were this closer to being "perfect".

But of course, you have it worse. Let's focus on your problem now. Because I am average, I have no room for complaining, when there are people like you, right.

I wish I played sports/ was a jock

>>35143890
I think it is a flaw in Kenshiro's character, that he chases Yuria who is a completely unrealistic ideal.

>>35143931
women find you to be a manlet
>5'11 here and wish I had that 6 feet status

>>35143237
manliness had nothing to do with height. The strongest and most hardworking people I know are short. tall people usually get babies their whole life and end up working bitch jobs with a wife who controls then

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>>35144115
But in Kenshiro's universe, Yuria is real. Kenshiro is also a completely unrealistic ideal. But that doesn't mean we, both men and women, should not just even try to strive to become more like them.

>>35144559
I mean more the dependency Kenshiro has. It is possesive and feminine, and shared by all the major characters except Jagi, who is instead positively sycophantic. I would also argue that since both Yuria and Kenshiro are inventions of a masculine mind, Kenshiro is much more realistic.

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>>35144707
True. I will say that Yuria therefore represents a female ideal according to men. I still think Kenshiro represents ideal masculinity. If masculinity was strictly pure masculinity, then Raoh would be the hero. I guess therefore ideal masculinity also incorporates elements of femininity no? In the thread pic we had Kenshiro cry, showing vulnerability. Kenshiro is not a sociopath, he has emotions, weaknesses. I think this makes him EVEN MORE ideal and human.

Kenshiro then becomes sort of a Christian hero, in contrast with the more stoic Raoh. Christianity advocates for morally upright men, but also asks for emotional vulnerability and mercy. Stoicism demands zero emotion. Pure masculinity would then be sociopathy.

I love this conversation we're having!

>>35145101
Raoh is more of a psychopath, meaning he is too egocentric to suffer on behalf on others like Kenshiro. In his own way, Raoh is very emotionally driven. I think a better example of a Stoic character would be Souther, who has disavowed all emotional attachment, despite his somewhat manic personality.

The main philosophy behind Kenshiro and hokuto shinken is to encompass everyone you fight against, to make an ally out of an enemy, and in this way it is quite representetive of a dostoevskian, christian ideal.

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>>35145405
Yeah! I think that's what I was trying to get at. I lament though that I'm not enough masculine though. What is the ideal balance between femininity and masculinity, as outlined by dostoevskian/christianity/peterson?

Of the two stereotypical men, is the beta nerd or the alpha jock closer to the idea? I think the jock is. It's easier for a jock to get into touch with a feminine side, than for a nerd to summon up some masculinity.

I'm not sure if exists or not, but I think Plato once mentioned something similar. Can't find it though.

Incidentally, don't most action heroes fulfill this role? Conan the Barbarian does I think.

>>35145673
Dostoevsky's ideal was Prince Myshkin from the Idiot, and more realistically Aloysha from the Brothers Karamazov, who are both derivatives of Jesus himself. I think this ideal is unrealizable as the emotional dependencies and attachments held by these characters, ultimately weighs them down and consumes them. They only see the good in people, and so they don't really love the people, just an idealized image of them, and this discrepancy between the actual person and the ideal often causes the people to act opposite to the ideal, as it felt as oppressive.

A good example of this in Fist of the North Star is when Ryuga contemplates the differences between Raoh and Kenshiro. In dealing with a village of defenceless, despairing people, Raoh wanted them to be like him, and fight for what they wanted, whereas Kenshiro relieved them of their despair and allowed to be 'civilized', and compassionate again.

It is debatable what is the better outcome for the village, but Kenshiro does make all the people he help depend upon him. In the story this problem is solved by having Kenshiro simply dispatch of all the thugs.

>I think the jock is. It's easier for a jock to get into touch with a feminine side, than for a nerd to summon up some masculinity.

I don't agree with this. I think Yukio Mishima is a good example of a 'nerd' who embraced hyper-masculinity. A jock typically leads a more laid back and careless life and so doesn't really experience any suffering. In some ways the jock is more feminine than the nerd.

Devilman is cooler than Kenshiro

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>>35146162
Are you some sort of English major?

I haven't read The Idiot or Brothers Karamazov yet, just Notes from the Underground because it was recommended by Peterson.

Is it not true that Christianity is built on the basis that there is something holy, something divine in all of us? We humans have the gift of life from God, but are trapped in corruptible human bodies. Sure we may struggle to realize the idea, but according to the story of Jesus, according to Chalcedonian doctrine, Jesus is both 100% divine and 100% human. Meaning the ideal that Jesus is, can be achieved by all humans, supposedly.

Can you go more into what makes people feel that the ideal is oppressive? Who is driven away from the ideal, the person holding the idealistic view, or the person who is built up held tot he standard?

>>35146283
No, I have never gone to College.

Convetional Christiantity is a bit unclear on this point. What you described is more of a consistent reasoning, but would probably be considered heretical as there is in Christianity an insistence on salvation only being achievable through submission to Jesus. It would not be enough to be like Jesus, you would have to ask Jesus specifically for forgiveness. This also downplays his supposed human quality.

>Can you go more into what makes people feel that the ideal is oppressive

It is like if your parents want you to do well on a test. Or if someone has a very high opinion of you. The fear of letting them down can result in a person letting them down on purpose just to be released from the pressure.

>>35146628
Oh. Well you sound pretty smart. Glad you raised the level of discussion. I don't think there is much left to say though. Once I'm done reading Notes from the Underground, I think I'll move onto Demons perhaps, as it's sort of an extension of Notes from the Underground.

Fist of the North Star is still the best shonen anime.

>Does anyone else here wish they were manlier?

Manliness can be defined any way you want, but the base characteristics can be summed up to being a provider and a defender. Anything in between is just superficial.

For instance, I am an extremely sensitive and emotional man to the point where it is a flaw and women usually get scared of how intensely I live every single of my emotions, but I have faith in my abilities to be a strong protector for a woman. The trick is to not be that strong protector for any bitch coming your way. I've done that mistake many times.

Being a real man, to me, is also about not letting others step on you and being confident in your place in the world and yourself. Don't let basic bitches break your iron will, don't let other men take what you aim for.

Aside from that, in my opinion, you can be as sensitive as you want, feminine as you want and nerdy as you want. Just don't be all over the place about that with everyone around you and keep your wits to yourself. Eventually you will meet someone who will accept that you are more feminine and understand that you are still a real man for being able to face your own feelings and still stand tall and strong.

>I grew up watching shows that divide men between the athletic alpha jock and the nerdy beta faggot, and I instinctively identified with the latter because I was shy and bookish at a young age.

Yes, the great social conditioning conspiracy. What you need to understand the most is that reality=/= movies and that the perfect men they portray in fiction don't exist in reality. You have been fooled.

>Manly people are objectively good people.

Untrue, simply because objective good does not exist.

cont

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>>35143237
I used to think like this but it doesn't translate well to the real world. My opinion of what it means to be a real man has changed to someone who lives his life the way they want to live it without going out of their way to act like bad people and shoving their opinions in other people's face. I feel that a man should stive for being content rather than any other emotion and if they can achieve that they've made it.

>>35147253
Fist of the North Star is the best shounen fighting manga, Kinnikuman is the closest runner up. Devilman and Ashita no Joe are better shounen manga than but one is horror (sort of) and the other is sports. They are literally the three best manga ever made however.

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>>35147319
You sound like such a beta I bet you are a manlet too kek

>>35147319

> The feminine are spiteful, greedy, envious, unfair, and have low self-esteem. The classmates I have again can be divided between betas and alphas. The alphas are actually NICER than the betas.

Yes, this is in order to make men who are more sensitive feel even more insecure about themselves because they are portrayed as being weak and negative, but realise that in fiction, you can make up any strawman that you want about any type of person.

>Nerdy girl= hurrr duuurrr I'm so insecure pls Chad pick me up!
>College slut= Huuur duuur I'm so drunk right now Jamal pls fuck my asshole!
>Nerdy guy= Hurrr duurrr I'm so afraid of partying because I'm so insecure and anti social pls Chad pick me up!
>Chad= Hurrr duuurrr lookit mah muscles hurrr football huur!

See? Any stereotype can be strawmanned and parodied. Do not take fiction that seriously.

> I honestly shocked at how long I avoided sports and manly things because I thought it was filled with assholes. In reality I was the asshole.

Sports do not make you a good person, but a healthy body is the basis of an healthy mind if you ask yourself in which ways you can benefit from sports and physicial fitness, but do not expect sports and fitness to magically transform you into a God. Both the mind, the heart and the body needs nurturing.

>>35147359
The manga becomes shit after Raoh dies

>>35147460

>Manly people are also heroic and represent a human ideal. They save people, and people look up to them. Now I know it's pretty autistic and weebish to be saying this, but Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star represents this ideal very well. I've written a lot and I'm still trying to iron out what I'm trying to say. So if people show interest in this thread, I'll continue expounding.

You understood nothing about Hokuto no Ken and I wil FIGHT you over this because HnK is my all time favorite Anime and biggest inspiration for being a real man.

If all you see is how OP Kenshiro is so fly with his big muscles and Hokuto Shinken powers and how he saves people using them, then there are depths to this series that you have yet to reach.

The point of Kenshiro's character is to show how his compassion and love for his Yuria, for his brothers and for all the friends he's made throughout his journey as the successor has made him stronger than every of his opponents. Kenshiro's greatest power is his love. Not his muscles, not his image, his love.

He shows that people must love one another to overcome struggle, to stick together in the face of danger and fight arm in arm to defend those they care about. Kenshiro is ALL about self-sacrifice and what it means to love.

Love is a feminine concept. Kenshiro is often accused of being soft, but it is his softness that makes him so resilient. He trusts in himself and his conviction more than anything. Ken's mighty anger is triggered by people who transgress upon his values. In this sense, he is a real man, unafraid to cry, unafraid to show his emotions, unafraid to use them in battle. unafraid to sacrifice himself for the sake of his loved ones.

This is Ken's true strenght.

>>35147455

You sound like a top grade memelord.

>>35143237

>tfw 6'3", wide strong frame, retard strength because autism and high iq.

What do i do with it? Hide in my basement, never use my body nor my brain and slowly deteriorate awaiting death as a khv.

>>35147509

To me, it's still good up until Ken sets foot on Shura. The Shura arc was just a huge recycling of everything that happened before complete with Hard mode Raoh.

Basically, the Shura arc is just New game + on hard mode for Kenshiro.

>>35143237

Desperately. 5'7" with tiny wrists the same size as most thin framed girls. Can't grow full beard despite being Indian.

High boyish voice. I'm ugly as fuck too but at least if I was big/tall/manly I'd be a MANLY ugly guy which can still work.

I'm fucked.

>>35147509
I agree but up until it is the GOAT, and it is so good that despite being shit and massively contradictory after Raoh dies, it's never been bettered as far as shounen battle manga goes.

Also we know for a fact that WSJ made Hara and Buronson continue it past Raoh's death for popularity (obviously it's their fault at the end of the day for agreeing but it was simply too popular to stop at the time).

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>>35147319
Well it's no mystery that masculinity is often defined by functionality depending on the age. Back during the 19th century I'm sure masculinity in America was epitomized by the pioneer moving Westward. So it's wrong to say masculinity has clearly defined meaning, but it'd would be equally wrong to side with the post-modernists to say it can be changed into anything.

Definitions of masculinity are often built upon. Even in modern America today, masculinity is often coupled with independence, like the early pioneers.

My Father himself is a masculine man. Athletic, high energy, aggressive at times, extroverted, etc. He flouts how he gawks at women like Anitta in pic related, who I honestly find rather disgusting.
I prefer cute over sexy.

I am his complete opposite. I'm introverted, bookish, short, very unathletic, I like video games, low energy, I struggle with women. The only similarity I have with my Father is that we are both good students in school.

I remember back in my childhood how my Father wanted me to gawk at naked mannequins of women, but I looked away "out of respect" (nowadays I recognize this is beta behavior and I despise feminism.) while got him quite angry. Not sure why, maybe he was worried I was gay?

I also liked playing Webkinz. Not sure if you know them, but they were plush dolls that allowed you to access an online game where the doll was an avatar. Basically neopets. I asked my Father to buy one for me and he ridiculed me for playing will dolls.

I'm not saying my Father was right or wrong in these situations, but I think they led me to identify with the identity of weak, feminine beta.

What I meant when I said "manly people are objectively good" (terrible phrase), I should've said manly people are better than unmanly. Manly people are held to standards and are expected to led. They're often very happy people from my experience and have a level of camaraderie with other men and vivaciousness personality that Im jealous of.

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>>35143237
It's your fault for watching Chad animes(your pi related, DBZ, Jojo, etc) and not watching animu with a qt female(male) transitioned protag. Chad animes will skew your reality on masculinity and your place in the world.


An another note, tokyo ghoul is the best and safest cartoon for robots. This cannot be refuted.

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>>35147548
Yeah, I realized that the ideal portrayed my Kenshiro incorporates elements of femininity and emotional vulnerability which makes it very dostoevskian/christian. Right here
>>35145101

>>35147598
Falco arc was pretty decent now that I think about it. I'm still pissed they killed him off right in the beginning of the shura arc

>>35147725
>I remember back in my childhood how my Father wanted me to gawk at naked mannequins of women, but I looked away "out of respect" (nowadays I recognize this is beta behavior and I despise feminism.) while got him quite angry. Not sure why, maybe he was worried I was gay?

He got angry because he probably thinks you are foolish to repress your sexual desires "out of respect".

There is nothing wrong with being comfortable about your sexual attraction. There is nothing disrespectful about admiring a woman's physique. It's just rude to stare. If I can provide an opinion, it's that you must realize this feminist bullshit about "resprcting" women is all a pot of bullshit meant to control men into submission. Do not be ashamed of your straight sexuality, do not be afraid of looking at women, just don't be a fucking creep about it. Being a man also means embracing your sexuality, whether straight or homsexual it doesn't make a difference. Confidence in yourself is the one key for becoming a real man. Confidence in who you are and what you love.

>I'm not saying my Father was right or wrong in these situations, but I think they led me to identify with the identity of weak, feminine beta.

I will be honest with you that your father might be too much of a man. In my opinion, we require balance. it's unfair to think that you must be a submissive feminine boy if you want to attract the attention of the GODLY woman as feminists would like you to believe, but it is also unfair to go to the absolute opposite and think that objective criterias of manliness that are still frozen in the far past to be relevant today. Your father pushed too much of his manly values on you and, in rebellion, you turned more feminine.

>>35148032

I grew up with inadequate parents, what I've learned about life, myself and what it means to be a man comes from what little scraps I could get here and there from observing other people around me and how they live their lives, in which ways their issues complex them and in which ways it hinders their self progress and I reflected all of this upon myself. I never had any parents to show me what it means to be, not only a man, but a human being.

In this sense, I have learned that a lot of us are left, alone, in the world, to piece it out by ourselves without help and this is why so many of us are failing and falling to the deep dark abyss of misery and depression. It's because we are a lot of people to be left alone in the world.

This is why that, despite my many struggles with society, other human beings and myself I know I am strong, because I was left alone, without help and I managed to piece my life together by sheding much blood, tears and sweat. Despite having no father figure, I managed to learn what it means to be a man, what kind of real man a woman wants and I managed to seduce a few girls here and there and lost my virginity at 28 years old. I still struggle with the idea of love and romanticism, but gettig laid is no longer a concern for me.

All I can do is wish you the greates tof luck in figuring it out, you appear to be alone, like I was, but if you are strong enough and wise enough, you'll figure it out.

>>35143237
being obsessed with manliness is kind of faggy

I totally failed the gene lottery. I don't actually mind for being a manlet, if i would have some dwarf-tier genetics with it, but i'm already 26 and i still look like 14yo boy. Can't grow beard, small hands and small bone fructure, only thing i can do is lift and i fail that too. I wish i could at least get over that laziness someday.

Only way would be going twink, but i'm not gay. So it's pretty much hopeless situation.

>>35148200
/lit/ tier discussions of what masculine virtue should be yeah, I agree, but nothing wrong with taking proper measures to ensure you don't turn into a numale/trap (remove xenos and parabens, take zinc and sleep well, make sure enough sat. fat and no soy, etc etc)

>>35148291
"Numale" is such a shit word, I hate whatever faggot was forcing that meme to the point that people actually use it.

Yeah.

I wish I had a big bass voice, a big beard, big muscles on a big frame, and a big dick. But I'm just a boring mediocre schmuck.