Why do men associate submission with abuse instead of trust?

There seems to be stigma surrounding 'subs' or girls who are submissive by nature, which I think all kind people or girls naturally are (unless you love taking control of your guy), but I don't think people who are nice, or nuns, or angels / priestesses / anyone who is demure and obedient / submissive is trash. The fact that others assume is wrong.

Tell me that it's just a meme that I've seen here, and not really a pervasive ideology where men believe girls who are loyal, honest, obedient, kind, classy, sweet, and understanding are all "ABUSED LOW CONFIDENCE BPD FEM WITH ISSUES"?

Confidence has nothing to do with it, because you can have high confidence and still be submissive in nature. (This doesn't mean you don't have values or guidelines or boundaries, or what you believe in; you don't submit to anyone. Just one.) The one you allow . or feel that way about .

>>34693235
yes, OP, I have the same intuitive understanding of this as you the problem is we no longer live in a sane world where this is the social norm, we're living in goldbergowitz's sexual amusement park

Is it the liberal women who have ruined this idea- meaning? Where instead of a chaste girl who follows the leader and is kind sweet and loyal to her prince, there are women who say they are "sub" and like "to be choked or treated roughly" but it's coming from a place of whore-mentality? Like they don't hate the fact that they're being choked because they enjoy being degraded, as opposed to someone who would feel sad for disobeying or sad for displeasing (insert name) because she loves and respects him?

Ex: when you see a girl who is actually screaming in pleasure and asking for more punishment (and not being afraid of him at all ) because she's very loose and enjoys it as a whore, VS. a girl who may like the love he gives her, but she's crying or hates the fact that he punishes her / takes her as his own in whatever way that may be (because she has high self-esteem and confidence, values) so it's a mixed feeling instead? But nothing where she would want to be punished more, nor does she enjoy being abused. She simply loves him.


Does any of this make sense?

it's so weird, i don't know how to explain this!
sorry if it is confusing

Stop being so trusting of men.

men who get off on submissiveness are power tripping on dominance

they literally only get hard through this ownership play

it might be that the sub is trusting, but it is more likely they are getting off on abuse

"so it's a mixed feeling instead?"

*as in she's not a doormat and would never submit, under normal conditions, so although she's submissive in nature it takes .. mm.. old ways/habits don't die easily? although i'm sure she would try to be a good girl. but mixed as in she might protest and resist him, but she loves him and cannot help but obey/submit..

(however she would never dare ask for more;

ex: insert sadistic action) because she hates being in that predicament

because men are abused throughout life by everything and trust will get you killed

>>34693343
?? i don't do this to anyone, and i have never. you seem to be confusing a girl who is a whore for anyone, vs. someone who's submissive side cannot help but envelop her when she's in his presence. because he makes her weak.

>>34693343
>>34693366
i have no idea what you mean

>>34693381
so you're saying men should not trust?

what?


and when you say 'sub' are you talking about the ratchet subs r9k seems to think of, or girls with submissive nature? perhaps my examples were of the worst case scenario, times where he is in power, but in every other case it's not like he would be abusing or hurting her. i'm sure he wants to protect and take care of her. but it is about respect. being respected. and knowing that he is above her and has her; that she is his.

>>34693366
i'm not. i hope you're not confusing me with someone who just TRUSTS anyone to lead, no. simply being dominant doesn't mean anything.

>>34693366
did you even read? she hates abuse
or would dislike it /protest / fight him or fight back. are you talking about the whores that are always like omg spank me more whip me fuck me harderr

that? i'm saying those are the girls who i feel opposite of. idk who you're giving advice to or what you're generalizing. which party here?

and i feel like theres a difference b/c

if a guy was rough with a girl, and she wasn't normally ever treated that way or accepting, he would need to possibly comfort her after?

but if she's a whore / someone who gets off on it and purposely annoys him so he's even darker, and asked to be punished harder, and was reveling in pleasure blatantly, why would he need to comfort her when she is loving the fact that he's degrading her?

i feel like those 2 sides are on opposite ends, completely .. is that simply me who understands the difference?

or in mens' eyes, is it all the same?

like obviously guys who are more experienced / elder men / people who know girls or were in bdsm lifestyle

know what i mean, but what is wrong with you all? like why do some people have to ruin good things for everyone?! ;-;