Is abortion murder?

>>34396056
Yes, and it wouldn't even be a problem if people weren't such degenerates.

>>34396056
yes

next question op

Yes, and its still ok.

>>34396056
Abortion is fine. In fact it should be less of an option and more enforced. Birth control will always fail- its human nature. So instead of crying that stacy's not being punished by god for not liking your failure of an existence you should be pushing for more walls between woman and child.

Single mothers and cheating whores won't find you any more attractive

>>34396056
Alimony is murder

A fetus is not a baby

Anti idiot block and whatever. Abortion prevents the creation of single moms who are a plague on society.

>>34396056
Is swalling cum cannibalism?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=txFmiICgQj4

>>34396056
Nah, only the biggest faggots in the world think that.

>>34396056
If abortion is murder, does that mean that ejaculation and menstruation are too?

But.. why do we get nocturnal emissions then? A wet dream is literally genocide. Ejaculation is genocide, and as a matter of fact, so is impregnation. A woman involuntarily murders eggs when she isn't pregnant every month. Millions of sperms die for one sperm to make it. Millions die so one can have the perfect conditions.

Therefore abortion isn't murder. Murdering a few kids so one can be born under perfect conditions is justified, therefore abortion isn't murder.

>>34396984

>does that mean that ejaculation and menstruation are too?

Neither sperm nor egg alone have the genetic material of a full human like a fertilized egg does.

I'm all for aborting babies of sluts, but don't make irrational arguments just because you don't want women to feel bad about facts that they engage in.

>>34397189
but famalam, sperm are live organisms

>>34396056
yes, so is miscarriage.

>>34397212

But they're not humans. So it can't be murder or genocide.

I dont get it why cant they just use condoms,birth controll

>>34397189
This you retards always make that false equivalency with cum. I'm pro choice but I don't pretend that what's happening isn't snuffing out a developing human

>>34396056
Is killing a human being murder?

>>34396327
Consequentialism is a bad meme

>poor people are a plague on society therefore we should kill all poor people

>>34397384
what makes you think they are not human? why is a humans life worth more than a sperm?

Depends on how far along the pregnancy is. I agree with the current law on that regarding late term abortion.

Whether you want to call it murder or not doesn't matter to me, though. It's a very necessary procedure that stops a whole host of problems later on. End justifies means. If you make abortion illegal women will still try to diy it in various dangerous ways anyway. Illegal abortion = black market economy on under the table abortion without qualification or adequate safety procedures. Child born to woman who doesn't want it is unlikely to have a decent quality of life. There is adoption but that often goes sour, too.

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I'll grant you that pre-brain stem (6 weeks) it's hazy whether or not its a person, but after that it should totally be banned except for in cases of rape

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>>34397384
Think again nerd

assuming you're american

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>>34397995
Ends do not justify means

Ends don't justify anything

>People will keep stealing even though we ban theft, therefore we shouldn't ban theft

You're a brainlet

>>34396056
Sorta but not really.
Even then, there's nothing wrong with vacuuming out a useless parasitic fetus.
It's one thing I can get with the liberals behind, abortion is totally fine.

>>34398067

My point is there are outcomes in life far worse than death by abortion for unwanted babies.

>>34397973

The fact that they have 23 chromosomes and not 46.

A human's life is worth more than a sperm as per the social contract, where if it weren't it would logically follow that genociding people is acceptable and unpunishable and civilization would not exist.

>>34398033

I'm not talking about a fetus you tard I'm talking about sperm or eggs separately.

>>34398174
per the social contract aborting is fine.

>>34398174
Sorry I'm on your side meant to be>>34396984
>>34396327

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>>34398168
Outcomes don't hold moral weight.

You don't have the right to decide for the baby whether it wants to live or die.

>>34398194
per the social contract aborting is not fine

>>34398260

Utility > morality. And I do think abortion can be the more compassionate choice in many cases. Deal with social/family services department for any length of time and you will see. Foster care is a horror show.

>>34398386

Utility in moral terms refers to the maximization of happiness in the outcome (see Mill), and we cannot know the happiness of the sum of all the lives prevented by abortion.

>>34398194

>per the social contract aborting is fine

Never did I contradict this. I just logically demonstrated the fact that it is killing a human being.

Abortion is a woman's right, there it is a woman's right to kill a human being. Don't pussyfoot around facts because they make you feel bad.

>>34398386
Utilitarianism is a fucking joke.

There is nothing compassionate about violently imposing sovereignty over the entire individuality of another. To completely deny them all the experiences of life that you cherish and the ones you take for granted just because you deem the suffering of them too great or the burden of caring for the child too inconvenient for the mother. The mother chose to voluntarily engage in sex knowing full well what the biological function of sex is. She has a duty to deal with the consequences of her action. She has a duty to care for the well-being of her dependents she voluntarily took on.

>>34398464
Do I have a right to kill the government because the government can only exist by violently extorting value from the labor employed by my body?

>>34398464

therefore*

how could this ever be original robot pls

>>34398490

Nope. You are not compelled to pay taxes. Citizenship can be voided voluntarily by you without harm coming to you, and you are free to immigrate to Namibia. You also have no obligation to earn an income, and could beg for a living.

>>34398490

Also I made no argument that a woman has the right simply because it is affecting her body. I was not making a pro-abortion argument at all, just noting that it is objectively killing a human being and yet acceptable as per the social contract.

>>34398648
>>34398674
The Social Contract isn't legitimate.

The Government does not rightfully own the totality of land within the nation thus they have no right to impose terms of use of that land.

>>34398697

>The Government does not rightfully own the totality of land within the nation thus they have no right to impose terms of use of that land.

On whose authority does the government not own the land? Authority is derived from means of enforcement, making the government by definition the owner of the land.

>>34398674
you could say anything is objectively killing a human being though. abortion doesn't qualify as murder.

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>>34398724
No it's not. If I steal your computer from you, I don't own it. You own yourself and your labor. Property ownership is derived from employment of your individuality through labor into natural resources aka Homesteading.

>>34398732

>you could say anything is objectively killing a human being though.

You literally cannot do this. You cannot say that making toast is objectively killing a human being. How does it feel to objectively wrong in your assertions?

Nothing which is not proscribed as murder by the law is murder. If tomorrow it was legislated that abortion is murder, it would be murder. This is the only difference. It satisfies the functional definition, not the legal one, which requires social acceptance of abortion as murder. Social acceptance has to do with feelings, not facts.

>>34398825
>employment of your individuality
are you on drugs?

>>34396287
I had a kek
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legalize-marriages-and-civil-unions-between-consenting-adults-regardless-blood-relation-or-familial-status

>>34398883
Damn, solid argument. I guess Locke, Madison, Hamilton, Jefferson, Aquinas, Burke and every other Enlightenment thinker was on drugs

>>34398825

If you are unable to assert your ownership through enforcement you do not own it. The state, which has the power of enforcement of personal property over you, returns my computer from me and punishes you.

Property "ownership" claims are derived arbitrarily through a number of means - migration, forcible taking and homesteading, nation building, etc.

Actual property ownership is retained and enforced by whichever entity possesses the power to enforce its will in this regard.

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>>34398908

That spectator was just observing your inebriated state.

>>34398863
>functional definition
according to you, sure. but to the people who matter, clearly it doesn't.

>>34398916

*returns my computer TO me

>>34398908
are you rambling about dead guys for any other reason than being bored as fuck and on drugs? you're not enlightened if you disagree with the government, every 12 year old kid thinks they have that shit figured out.

>>34398863
>Nothing which is not proscribed as murder by the law is murder.

What would you call the killing of a non-violent person that wasn't proscribed by law?

>>34398916
oh youre a legal positivist.... you should've just said so instead of wasting my time arguing with an absolute retarded fedoralord

>>34398948
this has all been my mistake

i guess i shouldn't have assumed that anyone on /r9k/ was educated in law and not a complete fucking retard

>>34398929

>according to you,

According to objective reality. Stop relying on "men who i would let cummies in my vagoo don't say so so it isnt'" arguments. The facts of biology don't change from society to society. In Saudi Arabia the people who matter have by your definition of functional determined that women are not even people. Clearly this is logically false, but by your mode of argument it would be proof that women are not people.

Your insistence that objective reality is a popularity contest is silly and hyper-feminine.

>What would you call the killing of a non-violent person that wasn't proscribed by law?

I would call it killing.

>and absolute retarded fedoralord

And you are unable to come up with a sensible argument. Sounds like you've gone full irrational roastlord now. Either refute my points or face automatic involuntary concession.

>>34396056
Yes, but why bring a child into the world if you know you're not capable, or ready enough to give them a good life.

Abortion is the killing of a potential human being, yes. Is it bad? Yes. Would I do it? No. Would I disown a woman in my life if she had one? Yes. Will I care if you got one...no. Just be a slut and kill your baby.