BIRTH OF A CIVILIZATION PART VIII

go hunt some bisons

>>224693
WHERE ARE WE???
OH GOD

>>224693
Lets Domesticate the bison..

Also try build a wall around the village.
Expand our farms as well

>>224732
If Bisons and Redskins didn't give it away for you.
America.

>>224742
Why is there a Village here with our people???

>>224746
Remember the missing expedition?

>>224747
damn nigguh

>>224693

Enslave the demon things.

domesticate bison. Then build a walled settlement. then build farms on the coast.

>>224693
Work on domesticating the bison and beginning to trade with the locals, establish friendly relations with the redskins, perhaps trying to spread our religion.

>>224742

California?

>>224780

No man, we need to form The Bank of Empires with First Nations people.

>>224693
Don't do it guys, you can't domesticate them, people have tried it before and it hasn't worked, you can only herd and Shepard them over a large area of land. Listen to the redskins boys.

>>224960
If OP says we might be able to domesticate them, then we will domesticate them.

>>224960
>>224961

I support this action, but does this colony not have their own cattle? Seems like bringing a hippo or two would be a thing done by any reasonable adventurer.

>>224967
I doubt they would've brought any livestock, seeing as their only duty was to explore and return to our empire. Had they been a lost colony group however things would be quite different.

Rolled 50 (1d100)

>>224967
>>224972

May as well roll and see.

Rolled 56 (1d100)

>>224997

Sigh....

> breaking the 50

Well guys since you are still debating let me help you out.

The only reason we have any chance to domesticate Bisons, is beacause we did it with Hippos, and we also did it without Horses or dogs or anything of the likes, so we have more skill in that regard.

Also, no, we don't have any livestock, because the colony is a result of the expedition 200 years ago getting lost.

That also means native population is already familiar with old-world diseases, at least in our neighborhood, not in the populated parts yet.

Speaking of natives, since the Expedition was all male, take a wild guess how they survived for 200 years.
Protip : Redskin women.

That's why Ishtara didn't recognize them on first sight.

>>225012
Okay, welp.

Still attempt the bison taming and do that plan from the previous thread; organise their shit more efficiently.

>>224959
Yeah, california.

OP, looks like we all collectively vote on going after bison.

>>225023
Alright, that's a long term project though, so don't count on results any time soon.

Anything else you wanna do for a more immediate effect?

>>225031

What's our agricultural condition like?

Lets work on our fishing docks and scout the area. I want to find a tribal nation to fund in the Empire Bank.

>>225031
I wish to organise our farming efforts more effectively.

By unifying small family or privately owned plots into "communal" farmlands we will produce more food for our effort.

I also wish for us to produce a few larger fishing boats and the needed infrastructure for them. Lastly I wish for us to begin construction of any time, or labour, saving devices we can.

>>225080
Well, now that we are underpopulated with about 700 people, I guess inventing means to have more food and thus more people sounds like a good idea

>>225089
yep, we are going to be pretty advanced when the Europeans encounter us.

It might fuck them over to know we got across the huge ocean on the eastern coast of america while they still bugger around with the smaller ocean in west.

However for a long term goal we need to make contact with south america. For reasons to be explained later but basically if we want more than two species of tame animal we need south america. Admittedly they raise it to four but it still an improvement.

>>225105

Why do we need more than bison? They're pretty much the best animal in the Americas. Are you implying that our empire NEEDS llamas and tapirs? Because we can easily go without them.

>>225066

By scouting the area, I mean straight north (Chinook, Comanche, Blackfoot), and south-east (Apache and Navajo).

btw guys, do you want occasional news on the big shit going down in the old world?

ofc, that will include news from the Kianurite states.

none of them will be in an update post tho, only like as a side-history going on that we cant interact with or canonically know about.

>>225123
Are you sure they are around already? It's barely 100 BC right now.

>>225113
There is a series of theories that suggest that a lack of diversity in tamed animals can result in a lack of civil development.

The reason being that there are a lack of trade goods with only one species not to mention the risk even one disease poses to your civilisation assuming cattle or such are a major good.

This is also forgetting the fact that a lack of animals means a lack of diversity in both diet and in economy.

>>225137

I myself would prefer it all to be a mystery what's goin on in the literal "old world".

You're right OP, only the northern ones I listed would be around.

>>225137
It would be nice to know the history of the world as it comes, so we don't have to learn it all at once when we encounter Europeans.

>>225142

I am aware of these theories.

However, we don't need to zerg rush South America, as we have in California moose, antelope, bighorn sheep, and mountain goats.

(also elephant seals, but that's a long shot)

>>225155
aren't those goats and sheep brought in by Europeans?

Also, are moose really domesticable?
I know Antelopes aren't because, fast.

>>225155
True, if we aren't rushing south we should focus on rushing east though I feel we should go slightly south to avoid central north america, or as it will be known for sometime "that big desert" as that would slow our efforts dramatically.

>>225172

Rocky Mountain goats and Bighorn are native to North America.

Also, moose are possible. The Russians are doing it.

>>225174
As it stands right now, we don't even know that anything beyond the Rocky's exists.
All we know is, north and south exist and we are somewhere in the middle.

>>225185

Lets go north.

>>225185
Then we have a series of simple objectives;


Expand (our empire), Exploit (natives and resources), Eliminate (threats), Subjugate (populations) and Advance (technology).

Or EEESA for short.

>>225206

I don't agree with the "exploit" part.

I think it'd actually be more fun to "transcend" selected native tribes into empires to be our allies.

>>225239
When I say exploit I mean to take advantage of their beliefs and such. I mean the whole "land for beads" thing and also abusing small tribes.


That doesn't mean I don't think we should accept tribes into our nation, that comes under the subjugate section of the plan.

>>225249

I know, but I'm talking about letting them be independent as well as being our ally.

Give out tech and money, and watch epic medieval battles between Navajo and Iroquois unfold. Bank of Empires man.

>>225309
Except that is inefficient, war causes loss of resources that otherwise may be placed into civil efforts. Something we need to focus on in order to resist the inevitable arrival of the Europeans.

We have 1400 years to go from 700 people to a force capable of surviving the arrival of not only a potentially more technologically advanced force in large numbers but also many diseases our people will not have a resistance to.

We can't waste our time a covert force in the Americas slowly unifying all present groups. We must be more aggressive than I would normally suggest.

>>225370
We actually have 1600 years until the Spaniards.

Also as it stands right now , we have no military.
Our neighbors aren't aggressive, and we have no means of production.
We have no blacksmiths, we have no mines, we have no technology.
All we have is a bit of our knowledge retained over the last few generations due to the fact the lost expedition was full of scientists.

>>225410
an additional two hundred years makes me feel a little less worried but knowing we have forgotten almost everything and have access to little existing productive capacity worries me.

>>225436
We still have writing, which is how the few pieces of knowledge we have, were preserved in the first place.

>>225443
well at least there is that.

Start the Dynasty with the queen, she is the descendant of Gilgaram, and her blood makes her heirs sacred. When she dies, her firstborn son will succeed, as normal. First of all, we need a food source. We have the ship used by our new queen. Develop more advanced fishing and use whatever knowledge we have to irrigate the local land. The locals know how to grow plants, but we have the advantage in that we know how to farm industrially. Set up great rows of the local flora, fertilized with excess fish.

With this food provided, construct a shrine in the settlement, a shrine to Sarilu. It will work as a warehouse. We start from the beginning, as in, Sumerian Temple cities beginning.

>>225481
Now that sounds like a plan I can work with.

>>225489
Good. I'm glad to be of help. How many turns do you say we have until the arrival of the Spaniards?

>>225540
Well it's 120 - 100 BC
The Spaniards arrive in 1454

That's more than enough threads.

>>225018
lets use acorns as a major food source, plant acorn trees everywhere

i live in bay area, so im pretty familiar with what we can and cant domesticate. Some stuff that we can use to intesely produce food are:

fish farms/traps: large scale ones.

Ive never heard of bison in ca so north east ca??? anyway bison are first priority to tame

acorn plantations. Acorns produce large amounts of flour, however are hard to process, some non bitter trees are found, but dont last the next generation. However if we selectivly breed mutated sweet trees and their children and chop down the rest, we can reduce the tannins at least.

there are sheep in alaska that i have no clue why they werent domesticated.

writting not neccisary till food production exists.

we can survive a while without metal tech.

>>225481
this

>>225592
Well we do have some farms, in the territory around the village.

Here's the fun thing about those farms.
They produce rice.
Really shitty, low quality rice, because none of the initial explorers were farmers, so no one around here has any idea how irrigation works, but if we can figure out how to do that again and find enough water to supply the rice, we have a stable food source.

The reason the Rice is there in the first place, is because the expedition wanted to take the seeds back home after visiting China, since at the time, no one has ever seen Rice before.

Ishtara and her boyfriend are familiar with rice, though obviously neither has any idea how to do irrigation either.

Irrigation will come to us naturally again at some point, there is no need to force it, just letting you know that we have some kind of domesticated plant with us, it's just very underhydrated, making it virtually useless right now.

>>225611
fun fact: there was rice in america (not exactly but close enough) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_rice

so what just focus on bison taming? Genetic diversity is important, but i dont think were moving to mexico and taking a raft to the andes anytime soon

>>225637
I think we stick to fishing, to tide us over until irrigation develops properly.

Also, what was Ishtara's lover? You mentioned he was a commoner, what did he do?

>>225652
Well he studied Alchemy and her dad just didn't like Alchemists, at all.

If you recall, Alchemy in our culture is just an overarching term for everything regarding Biology, Chemistry and Medicine.

>>225611
just saying dude california is historically dry. The only reason why we do so well in agriculture is because we destroy the enviroment with GODDAMN TOM SELLICK AND HIS FUCKING AVOCADOES by stealing water from the north. Rice needs watery shallow land. California may have that, but its not common and DEFINETLY not sustanable

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>>225692
pic related

>>225692
I know, I specified that multiple times that agriculture is impossible anywhere but the coast and that the Rice we have is really dehydrated and just overall bad.

>>225707
which is why i think a seperate crop is best. Looking for new crops is the best idea because we cant feed and create more families by more calories per work.

>>225646
fish farms man, gr8 tech

Ok let's get this done.

Long term goal : Domesticate Bisons

Short term goal for update : ???

>>225769
so the options ive heard so far is:
>culture with daughter
>fishing
>searching north or south

private opinion: south would be cool because we have a boat and could get like llamas or three sisters stuff

>>225769
What I said. Queen starts male dynasty, Shrine storehouse in the settlement, Fish farming research and developing irrigation.

>>225818
you don't just "develop" irrigation.
It happens on it's own, I'm pretty sure I made it clear that you can't force it.

>>225831
dont we have previous tech?

but i agree with guardian and also suggest expedition south

>>225835
>expedition
While that's all well and good, with what money?

>>225831
Fine. My apologies.

>>225835
I disagree with the expedition south and would suggest we slowly expand by sending 100 people to found a village to the south also on the coast.

>>225841
we have a ship and food from settlers.

what about trying to assimilate natives by stealing culture from them? We already have mixed people, so if we steal culture we can steal knowledge of land etc.

>>225870
>>224693
>somehow even more primitive than the barbarians back at home
>even more primitive than barbarians
>primitive
>culture

I mean sure, they're very civil, but there's nothing of value they have yet.

Well guys I'll go to bed for today.
I'm kinda sorry we have so little progress, but democracy is a lengthy process.
Hopefully you'll have reached consensus in the realm of possibilities when I'm back.

Cya.

I know I said last thread that I wouldn't start a Birth of a Civilization quest but the idea is growing on me. If people want me to I'll do my best to QM one.
I'll probably introduce a rolling system so there's actually potential for failure that wasn't OP induced or player induced.

>>225943

Dude, I'm totally down for it! Start it up!

I feel like the rule though should be that our new location has to be "hardcore" in difficulty. Look forward to voting.

>>225943
I'd love to see more of these, and a bit of extra challenge sounds like fun.

>>226251
>>226375
Alright. I'll need some help from you guys with the naming and shit because I'm awful at it.

>>226394
I'm here to help as needed.

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>>226394

What exactly do you mean by that? Like, the name of our civ? We'll figure out that as we go along.

Here's the JPG so you can start the thread:

>>226469
thread is up

>>226473
fake op, but still thread

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>you guys right now

We aint no traitors

>>230054
At least the other thread is fun

So, what's our plan right now?

>>230243
I have no idea, I was hoping you guys would come up with something over last night.

Lets do:
Fishing
Capture Bison for taming and domestication.
Then start logging.

>>230130
bit rude

Ishtara tries her best to make smart decisions to get a small Empire going in this new land.

Thus she gives out her first order as Sarrasalmat (Queen of Mankind).
A dock is to be constructed, for her Ship to be able to leave and enter the village as she pleases.
She then makes her Ship available for all fishermen, to go out into the sea, for them to bring back more fish than ever before.

Additionally, she demands one of those Bison things be tamed and brought in for her husband to study.

The hunters on their way north to catch a Bison and bring back home, they discover a dense forest in a much colder climate.
In this forest lives a number of tribes, who call themselves Comanchee, Chinook and Blackfoot.

The hunters just try to avoid contact, though upon their return inform Sarrasalmat Ishtara of their findings.

She wants the wood of this forest.
Immediately.

Though there is a problem here, we have no troops and are way outnumbered as a people.
Ishtara doesn't like this.
As a Royal family member however, she had to become a Scholar of Warfare, despite being a Woman.
Such is the privilege and duty, of the old Empire's Princesses, so that their Sons may be greater generals.

So she hatches an idea.
While she sends out children to search for anything that looks like a hill or mountain for us to mine in, she decrees her first law.

All able-bodied Men are to fight one another once a year, to determine who is the strongest.
There can be only 2 winners every year.
The winners are then drafted, to fight for the people and the Sarrasalmat.
Warriors can no longer participate in these battles.

With this, Ishtara begins to rest and has an easy-going rule, as there is not much to do with only a village of 700 people.

Over the next 20 years however, the number of people piles up quite a bit.
Ishtara herself has more than 15 children.
Most of which are girls.

Her husband, a mere commoner, doesn't even question the dynasty of his children, they belong to their mother.

Ishtara realizes, that her presence in this land has sparked new hope for the people, and that they have set up quite a cult around her.
To appease these new religious ideas, she introduces formalized succession laws, which previously did not exist, even in the old Empire.

All children of her dynasty shall henceforth be Anshargal.
Men will be Zikar Anshargal
Women will be Sinnis Anshargal

Both of them can inherit the throne as either Sarrasalmat or Sarsalmat.

Only children of a Sinnis Anshargal will be acknowledged as legitimate heirs to the throne and her eldest son has greater inheritance priority, than her eldest daughter.

These new divine succession laws, are there to please the populace, whom firmly believes, that Ishtara as the only pure-blooded Kianurite woman in this entire world, is a divine being, as such her blood is the most important thing in this world, only next to Sarilu himself.

Her life is nearly at an end and Essukur is slowly taking shape.
What will happen next?

>>230634
Construct a temple-storehouse-barrack, to keep track of our resources better. Have the soldiers train before the temple, the eye of Sarilu guiding them, as a father spars with his son.

>>230634
We should march north and cut down some of those trees while making contact with those three tribes, asking permission to take some for ourselves.

Also see if any of their number wish to join cause, you know, even a few will greatly increase our genetic diversity and labour pool.

>>230926
since they believe in the earth and shit we promise to replant the trees.

we ask them to join us?
Maybe trade some beads.. :D

>>230926

This.

Also, search the area for gold deposits.

(this IS California)

>>231111
Gold is pointless for now, however finding metals would be useful. We'll need at least copper to achieve anything in the long term.

>>231111
im telling you guys, south is better because warmer, there is civilization with cities, and we have a boat.

Those red skinned savages are surely the missing link between us and animals. They are quite not animals and quite not humans either. We should domesticate them and turn them into our workers.

This could signify a brigth future for our people. If we are to domesticate them, and possibly to turn them into our work caste, we could free our own people from work.

>>231678
what?

1. Even if this is a game this is incredibly racist and im not being a white knight
2. humans are fucking trash work animals
3. Call them what we want them to be: slaves
4. our population isnt high enought to have slaves, thinks sparta
5. Our people interbred with natives, so are they animals too?

>>231701

You're half right:

Point 3 and 5 are valid.

However, there has been role playing racism in past threads, so whatever.

>>231712
think about aztecs. they had no beasts of burden and used humans. beasts of burden are easier to raise when they dont eat same resource as humans

>>231701
Dude, I was roleplaying as some sort of fanatic who believes that the empire they originated from is some sort of godly kingdom of heaven.

1. Don't be a pantsy, anon. Man up, these are different times in that game world. There are no angry mobs of internet commentators in that time to judge them. If they want to go down that path and have the means for it, no one can do shit.
2.I didn't mean to replace burden animals with them.
3.We can call them many ways. If we want them to stay more loyal to the empire, we shouldn't be really calling them slaves since that might give them the idea that they are just like the chosen people, only subjugated, while it would be more benefictial to have them believe the lie that they are subhuman and the chosen people have chosen them.
4.we can do it little by little
5.people thought many erranous things about reproduction of humans back in the day. It was widely believed that women provide no genetic material for the baby, that they are merely vessels of a mans seed. If our people in this gameworld believe that this is the case, they might see no harm in breeding with wrong race women.

Warning, the following is also a little roleplay:

"We had cities that streched to horizons. Our lands spanned the whole civilized world. We had contraptions and devices that these simple folk here don't even know to dream about. They surely cannot be as intelligent as us."

"More hands to tilt the fields and build the buildings is useful, but we can't just let them mix with our noble blood. So I say, lets domesticate them, but they all must stay as servant class for us, the chosen people."

>>231111
GOLD QUADS CHECKED

>>231852
Yeah but, why would we do that?
We haven't done anything like that before, we even abolished slavery.
I mean sure, we did it because of the exact same "everyone else but us is shit" reason, but still, Slavery is beneath us, it's something barbarians do.
We don't even have serfdom just because we never had a reason for it.

Socially speaking, we are centuries ahead of everyone else.

>>232474

OP, hurry and post that quad-riffic California ore rush post.

>>232485
sorry but "muh votes" still apply

>>230634

>>230634

I agree with this guy says. >>230708
We need to build a great structure to inspire awe in both our own populace and for the other tribes. Make our warriors devoted to our gods, and most of all our dynasty.

Also improve our docks. Fishing seems to be working very well for us and we should construct a lot more fishing ports if we can. We should also make a massive salted fish industry parallel to this fishing expansion. Also create defenses for our settlement, this means the timber from the forest.

Approach the tribes there and offer them gifts of fish, lots and lots of fish. In return get access to the timber. Diplomacy should be the priority and fish can be our resource to get the upper hand.

>>232561
This anon has given me a great idea: salt making. California should be hot enough for producing salt by evaporation.

The reason is that salt is hella precious trade good. We can open trade with the natives and benefit from their expertise, labor and local knowledge.

That said, I have my doubts that Comanchee, Chinook and Blackfoot even existed ib 100 BC

>>233047
They do, if I was just shitting on historic accuracy completely, I'd have went with a bunch of other tribes.

>>232561
I don't think you quite understand.

We still only have 1 village.
and the Forest in the north is in redskin territory.

come on guys, just a few measly votes to keep the updates going on.
It's not that hard.

>>232561
this

>>234410
this

Also get the gold

>>233810
Just build a damn storehouse-temple. It doesn't have to be complex, literally just a mud Ziggurat a few steps high. A shrine with a cellar would do.

>>234428
I back him with my vote.

OP, we have redeemed ourselves and voted. Please forgive us.

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To make our people less reliant on personal storage space, Ishtara decided that it is time for us to construct some storage space.
However, our resources are limited and the people are lacking a place of worship.

Willing to compromise, Ishtara decided to build a shrine to Sarilu, which also doubles as a ware-house and bank.

With this, the nearby market will always have a steady supply of food to sell, there will be a place for our people to keep their belongings safe, and they can worship their one true god.

Ishtara also makes contact with the northern tribes and tries to trade with them.
The Blackfoot and Chinook refuse to trade with us, the Comanche however are willing to cut down some trees for us in exchange for fish.

With this, we finally got our hands on some wood for fishing boats, putting the Sarrasalmats Tamtubaltu to rest for the time being.

Ishtara passes away peacefully in her sleep.

Generations pass, and our population booms.
With our help the Comanche dominated their neighboring tribes, and soon after we welcomed them in our Empire.

The contributed a lot to our growth over the past 300 years.
We have rediscovered irrigation, making it possible for rice to be properly raised.
Thanks to our age old knowledge, we've also managed to domesticate the mighty Bison, not too long ago.

We have also begun mining in some places around the Empire, for Gold and especially Iron.
We haven't quite rediscovered the craft of Steel yet, though.

However we did discover something interesting.
New peoples to the south.

The Hohokum - a people resembling the ancient Sumerians in their level of technology.

And the Maya - an interesting people we can't quite classify. If anything, they may be comparable to the Hellens in their technological development, though we're not quite sure about that.

A Man is currently running the Empire.

What will our Sarsalmat do?

>>235877
Send missionaries of our faith to these new peoples. If they respond hostilely then we will show them the way of the true faith by means of righteous holy war.

Oh yeah lads, we also need names for new cities and please, a few more names than cities so more people can name a city.

>>235877

Divide our empire into states like the last moments of our original. Less competition just gives us more of a reason to focus on stability.

Also expand south, offering these new people diplomatic annexation, in return for our wealth, tech, and security.

>>235926
as demonstrated by the greeks : states are highly unstable.
I really don't understand why you would want to do that.

>>235952

Fair enough. I second vote still stands though.

>>235968

* My

>>235877
WELCOME TO THE BAJA CALIFORNIA!!!! (jk south ca is trash)

I have idea:
>go to southwest to find the three sisters crop and incorperate the people who live there. They survive mainly on those three crops, and with more water we could produce way more food.(these are like the hohokum peopel)
>create more trading with chinook and northern tribes, we have advanced naval power, if we met japan we know super fishing stuff. Or create fish farms which hawaiins used effectivly. We also have bison now which can be used to trade with others. The midwestern us tribes would be extremely interested in this bison. However this might backfire for us because with animal might be too powerful

Also side note, mayans are on the eastern yucaatan peninsula (not sure if spelling right) So how the fuck would we meet them??? Anyway we should avoid the mexicans because if we give them bison, were fucked. they have:
-more infastructure
-more people
-desert border

>>236024

OP most likely meant Aztecs, which would be less of a stretch.

>>236036
im gonna guess the tascarans. Because mexico was like greece in terms of most cities being independant. Tascarans were the western ocean guys. They traded with the incans.

anyway we cant get anything from mexicans except three sisters and turkeys and we can get those from southwest us

>>236024
We met them through the the Hohokum
Also if you paid attention, the Comanche conquered the northern tribes with our help, and after that we conquered the Comanche with little to no resistance.

>>235877
Establish trade with hohokums.

Is maize even sufficiently domesticated in this era? Anyway, adopt maize to diversify staple crops.

Create meat and work breeds of bison.

Create a code of laws and establish middle management bureaucracy. Our territory is already large enough that we should need that.

Build transport infrastructure (preferably naval since that's where we have a technological advantage). Establish a trading route between northern and southern locals, passing through our territory, and tax it. Create a postal system.

Try to get a monopoly on salt production because why not.

>>236341
The hohokums are part of the empire

I would like to send scouts down to the mayans
Maybe trade some salt and gold for maize and agave cactus
We can make tequila

>>236344
They aren't, the Comanche are.

>>236349
ahh okay

So do>>236341
Then
send scouts and traders to the mayans. maybe get some maize and cacao
for salt and gold

>>235877

This >>236341

Also have peaceful relations with our southern neighbors, we need them not hostile to us until we're strong strong.

We need to get our resource game up. More timber, more salt, more fish and a lot more irrigation and agriculture. California is naturally fertile, no reason we can't make it insanely fertile. Population boom = more bodies to throw into expansion.

For governmental we should definitely make a bureaucracy and have members of our dynasty in managerial positions. They will be very useful and making a truly efficient agricultural system.

As population boom also build more cities and expand North and West.

>>236527
No, once we get maize, beans, and squash, we don't need the Mayans. Salt was mined the southwest too. Plus they have a way higher population, and our only advantage is beast of burden and tech.

Oh boy thread saged again
No worries lads, I post update in next thread tomorrow.

And again, sorry for the slow pace.

>>237465

As long as we end up having epic medieval warfare with alternate timeline versions of iconic native civilizations, I'm okay.

New thread is up
>>239257