Average Canadian home price soars to $454,342

I'm sure the price will go up forever

>>61218873
$454,342 in Canadian """"""""""money"""""""""" is like what 10 bucks

Google Bespoke Tranche Opportunity and be completely horrified

Uh oh...this looks familiar from where I'm standing lol

When's the bust? i want cheap Canadian land and eager Canadian dames to cum inside of.

>>61218873
Fear not, their progressive leader will certainly prop up the housing market when the bubble bursts.

>>61219191
If I wasnt clear I want to cuck Canadian men and impregnate their women

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THANKS MASS IMMIGRATION!
higher demand for land due to a constantly increasing population=great news for billionaires!

And it's all thanks to retarded liberals who put feel good identity politics over common sense economics

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>>61218873
ME CHINESE
ME PLAY JOKE

>>61218873
>we did immigration the right way
>chinese money creates a bubble
>oil drops
>chinese economy slows
Le Weedman is in for a bad time soon

>>61219191
5 years from now

>>61219112
Gotta love them synthetic CDO's!

Welcome to the machine, Canada.

>>61218873
so no first time home owners can afford to live here

just like in london and other shit holes where people rent for life

they need to heavily tax unoccupied housing

if you come from abroad and buy up a house to live in fine

if you are just some chinese investor thats trying to smuggle money out of china then we should be taxing that fucking money to smitherines

this shit is not good good for our economy and way of life

nobody should have to travel 2h in their car each way just to get in an out of a city while living in a decent sized house.

toronto has fucking terrible transit system and the infrastructure is falling apart

the cunt liberals of ontario have run this province into 300 billion debt and its only going to get worse

FUCK

>>61219110
It's $312,563 US, which isn't cheap. The median home price in the US is around $190,000.

>But if B.C. and Ontario are stripped out, average house price declined by 2.2% last year

In BC it's literally because of mega-rich chinks buying all the property up. Harper may have been an Israeli stooge (by "may" I mean "was rabidly") but did promise to look into this, then lost the election, and the Libs certainly won't.

So far as Ontario goes, they're so deeply in debt that I assume it was a result of inflation.

>>61219351
I could probably have enough money by then, or at the least good enough credit

>>61218873

>greater vancouver

the bubble will plop bretty soon everywhere else in canada

coastal bc is special cause they aren't allowed to build out as much

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>>61219248
implying you would want our women

>>61219430

>he doesn't remember what happened when the median US home price was $300,000 a few years ago

>>61219471
I have heard from most Canadians that Harper basically sold you all to China and that's why he lost the elections.

Can you give the keys to the bank and escape denbts that way? In Sweden, mortgage default means your home will get sold at a loss and you are stuck with the remaining debt for the rest of your life. So many leveraged wagecucks going to get BTFO.

>>61219110
haha nice joke, did you make it from your iPhone in your wal-mart scooter

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shits going to crash eventually

but why the fuck prolong the festering

>>61218873
it's cause they get the high class asians and we get dumb niggers and beaners

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>>61219314
ME LEND YOU MONEY
UNTIL YOU R BROKE

>>61219620
Step it up man, your Canadian, you need to shitpost better than that.

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>>61219471
It's interesting that Montreal is actually in slight price decline. That was a hot market for a while, but I guess it's not as big a target for foreign money-laundering as Toronto or Vancouver.

Also kind of sad to see the Maritimes continuing to lose population. Newfoundland seemed like a very comfy place when I visited, but younger people just don't want to stick around.

>>61218873
THat's bad news. However I am happy refugees are coming.

>>61219471
>So far as Ontario goes, they're so deeply in debt that I assume it was a result of inflation.
no its because of chinks in toronto who pay a million dollars to smuggle their chinese money out of canada

SOMETIMES they buy the hosue so that a chink child can take up a seat in our universities

A LOT of the time the housing just sits empty because the chink is speculating or has no plans to sell EVER.

All these empty condos sit unrented which forces people who live in the city to move out 1-2h away and commute every day

we are literally getting cucked out of our life's hours so that some chink can make a buck.

this shit needs to get taxed HEAVILY so that we can put in highspeed rail and decentralize livingspace.

>>61219617
>In Sweden, mortgage default means your home will get sold at a loss and you are stuck with the remaining debt for the rest of your life.

I met Swedish guys in Thailand who said they were never going back to any country that enforced Swedish court judgments, because of that exact issue.

>>61219563
This past election was a lot more complicated than that. The media was shilling for the liberals and shitting on Harper because the journalist unions joined their lobby groups, and the CBC got around a million dollars from the grits once they won the election. The NDP (socialists) also got on the "Stop Harper" bandwagon and many strategically voted for the liberals to get Harper out of power because they had that phrase "Anyone but Harper!" Mulcair is shit at running a campaign and driving away his loyal voters desu. Add into the mix that Canadians dislike seeing the same ugly mug on their TV screen as their leader for too long and this is the result. Probably more complicated than just that, but there's some of the reasons.

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>>61218873
It'll crash soon enough

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/canadas-housing-market-most-overvalued-in-the-world-deutsche-bank-says/article15878166/

>"Canada is home to the world’s most overvalued housing market, Deutsche Bank says in a new study that suggests overvaluation to the tune of 60 per cent."

We have a massive housing bubble, it's going to pop eventually...

>>61219413

I like what Texas does to avoid speculators. Texas gets most of its state revenue from property taxes rather than income taxes. So, it encourages people to work since you get more money back and removes a bunch of speculation in the housing market. It pushes prices lower and the money that you would normally go to paying for a higher mortgage goes instead to taxes for services you use.

I am surprised more people don't do it. People will just park their money in housing and continue to inflate prices. Not healthy.

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>2016
>Buying pre-made housing
>Not knowing how to build your own house
>Not buying a cheap, empty grass lot in a small town and constructing your own home as you see fit
>Not knowing how to homestead

>>61219413
they took away collective bargaining from the teachers unions and those marxist cucks still voted liberal this province is little better than the third world

>>61219620
I'm shitting my pants as I type this.

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>mfw Poloz is going cut interest rates on Wednesday

That is precisely the shit that has been going on here for ages now, people have literally been waiting for years for the housing bubble to pop already. And guess what, it fucking won't until we either go full recession or the gov pulls it's finger out and makes it next to impossible for wealthy foreingers to keep fucking up property price. Unfortunately for Canada your current gov is likely just to speed up the whole process instead of mitigating it. For whatever it's worth my advice would be to start trying to get some property at all before shit really hits the fan and it's impossible.

>>61220140
>collective bargaining from the teachers unions
our highschool teachers make more on average than our lawyers do in this province

thats how fucking jewed our tax payers are from the liberals.

300 billion in debt and the province is falling apart

jobs in the shitter

economy going down the toilet

everyone in the GTA should just sell their house and rent for a year, if everyone starts flooding the market the first sellers will make all the money before the crash and then everyone else will get FUCKED over

Meanwhile clueless dickheads took out a million dollar mortgage on a house thats only worth $400 000. once those mortgages go underwater you are going to see major economic habbenings

>>61219617
>In Sweden

sweden yes
so tolerant

>>61219913

>tfw no protectionist nationalist party

>>61219563

While that is a large part of it, he made a number of attempts at the end of the election to get the nationalistic vote/motivate regular conservatives to actually vote. Some of these were pointless rhetoric, others were actually good ideas. I am not certain he would have actually done it since he is the consummate politician and the only reason he even got into office in the first place is that he was "all things to all men" (ie religious conservatives thought he was a religious conservative, while libertarians said he was libertarian, etc).

Also, this is mostly correct
>>61219972
except that every single print media outlet was shilling for Harper. The anti-Harper shilling was limited to electronic media. I don't have the image saved but of the 25~ biggest newspapers only 1 of them hadn't explicitly endorsed the Harper campaign.

>>61219871

The Maritimes are pretty based, other than voting Liberal every election (really a minor concern since the entire region has nearly no seats in parliament anyway)

>>61220422
the price of oil is also fucking us economically since so much of our growth and developement was in the alberta oil sands

now with $20 a barrel looming that entire industry is tanking.

at least you bogans have a somewhat diversified economy

>>61219617
we have mortgage insurance so that if you default the gov has to step in and buy the house
everyone gets jewed when they buy a house if they dont put 20% down they have to pay mortgage insurance its law. this prevents burgertier fuckery like in 08 somewhat but its still not completely fool proof. we can still have big bubbles.

>>61220095
thats because you fucks have something called work ethic

its why you are our powerbottom

>>61220104
Is that what you do? It is my dream. PLease teach me your ways.

>>61220692
>except that every single print media outlet was shilling for Harper.
They suuure did. Whatever helps you sleep at night, reddit. :^)

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>burgeoning housing bubble
>simultaneously, oil-based economy becoming exceedingly ravaged
>just elected a quasi-socialist

MAPLE BROS BTFO

Don't worry faggots I'll use organic maple lube next time

>>61219471
Don't kid yourself, Harper loved that sweet Chinese money more than anyone. He wasn't going to do shit. As far as I see it nothing is going to change. We're just going to see a shitload of west coast fags getting pushed out and making their way further inland while mainstream media tip toes around the issue because das raycis

>>61221403
Don't forget mass immigration/refugees to bring down wages and push up prices

Canada is truly fucked

>>61220692
>except that every single print media outlet was shilling for Harper.

the problem is that DUDE got so many votes from the younger demographic, who couldnt be fucken bothered to read paper print. they all surf le reddit or maybe watch lecbcbcbcb and so when they hear "DUDE WEED" they all rush out to the polls.

>>61220775
>at least you bogans have a somewhat diversified economy
Somewhat diverse sure, too bad a huge chunk of it depends on China and therefore we've been sucking them off at the expense of Ausfags all over the place. I welcome their stocks crashing so much tbf, hopefully we'll finally get all of our eggs out of their mess of a basket since we've actually hit the point where we need a recession now. We're definitely lucky this clusterfuck with oil prices won't really affect us and you have my sympathies there, but we've got just as many stupid economic policies that are going to fuck our shit up soon.

>>61221157

>Facts make you reddit

Let's not go full SJW reality-denial, friendo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_endorsements_in_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2011

If you can prove the above list is wrong, then go ahead, but from what I saw posted here during the election it is correct.

>>61221482

Yeah, we're probably pretty fucked. I'm holding out hope for electoral reform being conducted in such a manner that small parties are viable (either pure PR or a MMP system) so we can have a viable nationalist party finally.

>>61221593

This is probably accurate, also from what I have seen the "Stop Harper!" campaigns were pretty successful. But on the other hand the riding my campus is on still went Conservative due to vote splitting, despite 20,000 leftist students voting. kek

>'muh corrupt liberal boomer politicans are selling the country muh ancestors bled for!'
Australians know this feel...

>be greatest generation:
Fight off the slopes.
>be boomers:
Sell out to the slopes.

>>61221695
Uhhh

Nevermind, KEK
I just realized that's 2011. My bad
here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_endorsements_in_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015

>>61218873
>wealthy foreigners will prop up your housing market!

Wait for China to collapse, they won't have money or it will be worthless

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>>61221592

THE ICING ON THE HALAL CAKE

KEKADA IS F-F-F-FFFINISHED

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>>61218873

Our house is now worth well over $800,000. What a fuckjob by the government.

>>61221601
yeah my oyz-bro, i cherished those SSE habbenings thread where the yellownegros lost 7% and 10%.

Thats what they fucken deserve for building dozens of ghost towns in the middle of nowhere that nobody wanted to live in just so that they had growth.

Chinks single handedly caused global concrete shortages which ratfucked developement costs in other nations.

You guys have super high costs of living from what I can tell, its the same here but we are getting neetwage increase which will only make the situation worse.

>>61221695
What school do you go to? I remember how hard it was to hide my powerlevel at university with all the dumb liberal bitches shilling for the retard tier economic policies of this province. Everyone hated harper, I didnt like the guy but shit hes far more suitable than a fucking snowboard instructor turn bartender turn highschool drama teacher.

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feelin fine

>>61222296
are you being sarcastic?

if not just realize that your house is only worth 800k if you sell it and move out of the city, else you are just going to have to buy another house for 800k as well.

selling and renting during the crash is the ultimate ninja market move but timing the crash is pretty damn difficult and risky too.

At least rent is cheap.
In Edmonton everyone is bitching about rent not covering mortgage costs anymore.

My landlord is actually now losing $600/month plus I can be a huge jerk to them and finally get them to fix shit up since now I'm the only thing that's stopping her from becoming a homeless prostitute.

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Feels kinda bitter sweet

>be son of a immigrant
>own 3 property's, 2 are rented out
>house i live in over 400k
>rent to immigrants

I wish i had like 300k back in 2001. Houses here worth 275-315k were selling for 60k.

>>61222677

I'm not bragging you retard

>>61222966
race/location if you dont mind me asking?

How do I buy land when it crashes?
How do I build a house?

If only the Canadians would let us buy their guns, we could fix their economy with sks and svt-40 funds in no time.

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>boomer parents bought their house in 1985 for $80,000
>adjusted for inflated that is $160,000
0>their combined income at the time was $48,000 as a elementary school teacher and truck driver
>did nothing to it except normal maintenance (heater, paint, some roof work, finishing)
>sold it last year for $520,000

They are currently giving me shit for living in a junky duplex even though I work full time as a Machinist.

revolution is our only hope

>>61223098
Brown - Winterpeg/Manitsnowba

>>61219069
Everyone knows that values which increase always continue increasing. Besides the government will make it stop if it looks like it's a problem. Right?

>>61223140
You generally don't just buy land, you buy a plot from a developer and you either tell them to custom build it or to build it as one of their spec homes.

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>>61219620
>bearing the infamous shit post leaf
>low energy banter
Christ we need some aussies in this thread to pick up the slack.

>>61223140
buy a cottage on a lake in north eastern ontario or BC or a hunting cabin on a lake in alberta

you wont regret it, stock up your lake for tonnes of fish to eat, lots of good hunting and crown royal the comfiest of whiskies will be dirt cheap with your freedom dollars. lots of canadian tramps to scrub your dock and float your boat.

if you move to one of our major cities you will just be disappointed. its like moving to india or china or russia.

if you go to small town canada its far more like america, more inviting and comfy, less american hating and cheaper.

bonus protip: living here long enough you take your canadian residency and you get to leech off our healthcare system for free, which is important in your retirement years.

we only ask that you take dual citizenship so that you can vote for the conservative party

>>61223145
>implying we would sell our sks
there are hillbillies here that spend more money feeding their sks than they do feeding their own fucking children

>>61223494
We have hillbillies here who would pay $500 each for them, and $900 for the SVT-40

So what is this? A massive real estate bubble?

A home price crash would be a good thing for the kids.

But mostly because you just have no idea of the smugness of every brainless office drone out there who's ridden this accidental gravy train all the way up. They're all fucking Donald Trump now, and their economic wisdom is manifold.

I will lap at their tears with joy if it all comes crashing down around them. Them, and the nearly endless horde of Chinese Robots who've goosed the market as well.

>>61223364
>Brown - Winterpeg/Manitsnowba
are you a muslim?

>>61223408
That's fair. Building a real big-ass house is too ambitious. I can just build a cabin on my property. But do I actually own the land though?

In America it is implicit that the Govt can and will lay a road down on you and your home.

>>61223494
What is the best province?

>>61220104

How can I do this when I only have 1k?

>>61219554
>And then the economy collapsed

>>61221695
you'll much sooner see yet another socialist/communist party than a nationalist party in Canada.

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>>61223583
we get matching serials for $300 CAD, which is around $200 in freedom dollars.

So, I know we are fucked.
But would I still be able to purchase a 4 bed 3 bath home in Port Hope for $429,000? Or is that fucked too

>>61223765
You own your land yes, the developer will sell you it.
Developers have more money than you so they buy huge chunks of land then resell it back. You can very rarely directly purchase land from the government here since in like 99% of cases a developer will purchase it immediately.

>>61223906
If I would have won the powerball, I wouldve bought as many as I could. Also wouldve picked up a couple of those T-97's

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>>61223711
About as muslim as the Queen of England.

>>61224088
The queen of england is a descendant of mohamed.

>>61223946
Also your developer will let you know if a road is being built nearby. Usually the government arranges for developers to build their own roads (the government no longer builds roads, at least in Alberta anyway).
Basically everything being built around your property will be known about 10-20 years ahead of when it happens and it's all in your contract from the developer along with whatever other restrictions they impose on you.

>>61218873
canada is so fucked
i hope you northerners fare well in the next months & years to come
best wishes xx

>>61223765
>What is the best province?
depends on your preferences

if you hunt/fish?
BC is #1 because it has grizz and elk
AB prolly 2 since it also has elk and some grizz

if you want better weather then Ontario or Quebec are going to see less rain than BC and there is more water for activities than AB.

North eastern ON is probably the best spot weather wise but there are lots of bugs in the summer so some of the months are no good.

overall I would say:
1. BC
2. AB
3. ON
4. QU

fyi i live in ON so im not biased

>>61224088
>hooolah Tommy

Man I loved that show. Shame it's shit on by Ray-ban fags because
>dasraycis

>>61224154
>snackbar is a ideology, not a race

Most non-royal people are not as genetically heterogeneous.

>>61224088
black?
i actually dont hate blacks like most of pol, they are violent but also entertaining sort of like wildlife.

>>61223997
Take a trip, buy one, they might sell it to you and let you take it back over the border I dunno

I am going to have to take a trip down one day and pick up some of the stuff I want since we cant get it here. they export the optics I want but not the models, we get fucking jewed when it comes to selection. dont feel so bad because you dont get $200 SKS there, id HAPPILY switch spots with you

>>61224550
Yvonne, YVONNE!!!

>defrosted for you and for me

>>61224290
I'm uncertain. I know to live using nature but I dont want to caveman it, yknow? What is so bad about Quebec?

>>61224711
You can hate the race but not the individual

>>61224711
If only we could have the best of both of our gun laws. You guys get a lot of surplus, and anti tank ww2 weapons.

>>61220775
>now with $20 a barrel looming that entire industry is tanking.

We actually go by the Western Canadian Select for our oil which is currently worth around $17/bbl. The fucking oil drum is worth more than the crude inside it.

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2016/1/14/Keep-the-barrel-dump-the-crude-Oil-has-crashed-below-the-cost-of-an-empty-barrel-.aspx

As someone in the middle of the patch I don't think it'll be long before there is massive foreclosures, suicides, domestic problems and crime.

>>61225254
*$17/bbl US

>>61219497
People say the bubble will burst, but all that will happen is more investors will buy in to the house at a cheaper rate especially with our poo dollar

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>>61225254
How is Ft. McMurray itself holding up so far? It was pretty unreal how quickly that place grew during the boomtimes, pulling in everyone from oilpatch bros to strippers to hookers to Somali drug-dealers.

It's gonna be a hell of a town now that times are slow...

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>>61224999
>What is so bad about Quebec?
The french dont like speaking english, if you can speak french then small town Quebec is about the same as small town Ontario in terms of geography and lifestyle, they are more catholic.
Neither have Elk, there are some small herds in ON but not much and only in specific spots.

>>61225125
one day soon brother once trump is elected and annexes us from DUDE and his band of LMAOs.

>>61225254
Jesus christ thats depressing, please tell me you did not vote NDP? be honest!

>As someone in the middle of the patch
Get out, get out now and go to BC

>suicides, domestic problems and crime.
Sounds like a native reservation minus the cheap smokes

>>61225764
Best of luck to you friend, and thanks for the conversation.

>>61225591
It crashed hard. Rent prices went from > $2000/Month for a 1 bedroom with like 2-4 roommates to now $500- $900/month for 2-bedroom apartments.
Nearly every new investor in the housing market is losing money since rent won't cover mortgages. Everyone that lived there previously and has a pre-boom mortgage is just fine though.
But yeah crime and drugs are skyrocketing and it was already pretty bad during the boom

>>61218873
>good news
>young canadians can't afford to buy a house
it's good news for babyboomers and other scum

>>61225879
yeah bro stay comfy and buy some of our crown royal or canadian club, help a nigger out

>>61225254

Meanwhile NDP supporters all the anti business policies implemented. They thought that companies wouldn't fucking leave or get turned off from Alberta. The truth is Alberta is the most expensive region on earth to extract oil using SAGD. I can't believe the royalty review still isn't over, the NDP are truly incompetent.

>>61225885
voting ndp was like pouring cheap gas on the fire though, as if a fucking union is going to do you any good when the plant gets shut down

the day the ndp were elected, shell put the creek sands project on hold as soon as those communists were elected and canceled the project within minutes of the communists unveiling their budget

>tfw I only fill up at shell now

>>61226219
Lol the ndp didn't do shit. Companies like cenovus are actually making money on the carbon credit because they took the effort to clean up their process.

>>61226402

They made investing in Alberta even worse of a proposition.

>>61226120
I consume vast amounts of Canadian club. You Canucks make some pretty damn good whiskey.
Be proud anon

>>61226596
I would say dropping prices made AB a shit place to invest for oilsands development yes

electing NDP makes it a shitdump for any type of investment period

as corrupt and scummy as the liberals are, they are still 5x more business friendly than the communist orange commies

>>61226596
Hardly. Husky for example talked of leaving alberta after like 6 months of opening here.
Nobody likes the oil sands because it's a shitty investment due to slim margins. Li Ka-shing was just waiting for the day he could leave without upsetting people and this slump gave him the scapegoat he needed.

>>61226746
try crown royal northern harvest, its expensive but smooth as fuck

>>61219471
>did promise to look into this

Harper didn't do shit for 10 years.

I doubt he would have done anything had he stayed in power.

>>61227239
Not doing anything is still better than spending into oblivion.

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>>61218873
HURRAH!

>>61227724
Trudeau is doing a classical Keynesian deficit. It's not that unusual and it does work as long as they hold a majority otherwise the cons will halt investment thus prevent returns on the deficit

canadas economy is fucked and dudeweedman is accelerating it

So the dollar is incredibly weak right now. Imagine the dollar if the housing bubble popped.

Canadian government will do everything in their power to keep house prices up

>>61227954
Uh huh. Just like the USA, the biggest economy in the world with the most powerful government in the world, propped up housing prices in 2008.

Oh wait, no, they couldn't do it.

But Ottawa will. Sure they will. By the magic of IMAGINATION.

>>61227831
the ontario liberals have a terrible record with keynesian deficits and DUDE lifted his cabinet straight out of ontario.

dont expect this ride to be as smooth as the last few bumps we sailed over

>>61227954
>Canadian government will do everything in their power to keep house prices up
poloz is probably going to announce another rate cut soon. anything to keep this fucking turd economy from getting flushed down the toilet.

>because FUCK first time buyers

>>61227855

It's fucked because of Harper's globalist shit. Which is not in any way a defense of Weedman, since he is almost exactly as globalist and wants more immigration, plus keeps spending money on other peoples' problems (African climate change money, bringing refugees over, etc).

>>61228030

We almost avoided the whole issue through banking regulation. If we hadn't let chinks buy everything we would be golden right now.

>>61219367
so you guys watched The Big Short.....cool.

BTOs are only a piece of the puzzle......start looking at oil and the wealthy restructuring their assets in August of last year......all that Shemitah bullshit was about moving pieces into the right place on the board rather than throwing the board and its pieces out the window.

The only tip I can give you is to look at oil companies operating margins and compare it to CPI across the board.....everyone is leveraged to the hilt in these derivatives and we're right back into the situation of late 2007.

>>61228961
inb404

>>61228961
the money printing press is the most powerful weapon on earth and the jews have been manning it for decades now

>>61218873
>$454,342
is that real money or canadian monopoly money?

>>61219430
>The median home price in the US is around $190,000.
Sure, if you include the dirt cheap price of homes in the middle of nowhere (i.e. the midwest and south)

>>61220104

Sup guy. My dad bought a 400 000 square feet of land terrain for 100K this summer. It had a shitty house and a nice garage on it. We turned the shitty house into a shitty garage and the nice garage into a nice house. Pretty much built the whole thing other than the slab and 3 walls on the ground floor.

It was fun. Cost about 40K in materials all told.

>>61218873
this must be in terms of the worthless looney

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>>61218873
>You were born too early to explore the galaxy
>But you were born just in time to watch Canada cuck itself to death

>>61223913
you'd know if you already put in the offer

>>61228961
I'd love a huge market plunge - I'm finally in a position to pick up a lot of discounted shit.

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>>61230947
>implying we aren't prepared

>>61231217
your money will be worth near nothing should the market dump in the way that I believe it will

put your money into physical assets that aren't housing related

>>61231304
Beanie Babies and Pantyhose, got it.

>>61219617
I cant wait for this to happen. Will be enjoying the crash.

I have friends with 4 million sek debt, a 1 room appartment in stockholm(550000dollars) and a bank job. My parents have 3 houses and almost no debt, and they wouldnt dare more debt because they got went through the 1990s crisis.