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Are you smarter than a Singaporean 14-year-old? This is P5 math

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Are you smarter than a Singaporean 14-year-old?
This is P5 math question from a Singaporean maths test.
This is why Singapore routinely tops maths worldwide.
>>
May 19??
>>
Cheryl is a fucking bitch making new friends try to guess her birthday.
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>>43744056
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>>43744056
That question has no answers

And why is a Jewaporean test in Gwilo?
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>>43744056
>le confusing assignment
>are you smart

Just read it 10 times, easy.
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>>43744056
Am I being detained???
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>>43744108
That's the only day with 19. Bernard would know without the month.
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>>43744056
what are the conditions? I could potentially know how to answer it
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>>43744056
>Smarter
Surely you mean educated?
>>
June 17
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>>43744241
With this logic, it could also be June 18 as well. Hmm...
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>>43744267
I suppose it would mean may 19th. As if bernard were to know he would have to be given a unique date.
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>>43744304
explain
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>>43744304
Question should be "are you smarter than the person that wrote this question?"
>>
It cannot be May or June or else Albert would not know that Bernard didn't know. It cannot be the 14th. Therefore it must be July 16th
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>>43744056
how is this a math question?
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>>43744108
>>43744302
>>43744304
>Wrong
>>
Sorry July 14th
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>>43744375
Problem solving.

>>43744371
Winrar!

>>43744056
Albert says he knows Bernard doesn't know the answer,
>so it cant be may or July
Bernard says he knows know hes been told its not May or July
>So it must be July 16, August 15, or August 17
Albert says he knows now that Bernard knows.
>So it must be July 16th

Bernard was told 16, and Albert July.
>>
it has got something to do with induction
>>
there is literally nothing here, Albert knows month, Bernard knows day.
>>
missing variables.
>>
July 16
This has been viral for awhile in Singapore. It is logical deduction and no way a maths problem
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>>43744056
July 16th. The wording is kinda confusing at first.
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>>43744056
June 18
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>>43744371
>that description
Explain how Albert is a precog knowing anything about what Bernard knows without having the answer himself again?
>>
Singapore is a neo-fascist dictatorship. Their kids perform well on tests because of the persistent threat of state violence.
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>>43744476
albert and bernald both have one piece of the puzzle, albert has the month and bernald the day.
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>>43744371
actually i don't get the assignment

albert knows the month and bernard knows the day?

also shouldn't it be 'at first i DIDN'T know...'
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>>43733375

He knows the month is July. Since both dates in July, 14 and 16, are repeated for different months, he knows that Bernard doesn't know.
>>
look
albert has the Month,
Bernard has the date.

A:
>I don't know, buit I know Bernard doesnt know either
so there's more than one option for Bernard.
B:
>At first, I didn't know, but now I know
so he ONLY knew the month, but with what A said, he knows that one of the month is the birthday, so in knowing this, he knows the birthdate
A:
>Then I also know
so now A has the final pieces of information to make the birthdate

and so now they know when it is.

jesus fellas its not hard
>>
>>43744463
>>43744468
explain
>>
>>43744534
You have to understand this is exam question for 11 year old kids
>>
Bernard says he knows know hes been told its not May or July

>>43744400
You've failed to actually explain the logic of this statement
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>>43744476
its like the eyes colour island puzzle. There are 200 people on the island 100 people with blue eyes, 100 with brown, and one guru with green eyes. No one can speak except the guru and no one knows the number of people with each eye colour. Every day a boat comes to take people off the island, however you can only go if you KNOW, not guess your own eye colour. On one day the guru says "I see a person with blue eyes". How many people leave and on what day?
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>>43744560

11 year old asian kid
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>>43744056
>A knows X
>B knows Y
>A and B both know X and Y
what the fuck
are they supposed to have talked to each other or not
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>>43744056
June 17, ggwp izi

Took like 2 mins
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>>43744563
look at the picture

put the numbers in order.
with B only knowing the number, he could know what date it is. but A knows that B is too dumb for that.
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>>43744534
The question is worded absolutely shit.

It didn't tell you that Berned and Albert put their information together.

It just said that bernerd found out(without explaining how) and now that Bernerd knows, Albert also knows.

It did not imply that they ever even spoke to each other because of the 3rd person referral
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>>43744572
sorry 201 people including the guru
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>>43744555
If Cheryl told bernad the day was 18/19, he would immediately know the datE. Since albert said bernad won't know the date, clearly it is not the months with those numbers.
From there with are left with the July and August months, for bernad to know the date, there has to be a single clear choice, 14 overlaps so it is out leaving the other 3 dates and only 1 of them is in a single month
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>>43744598
if there's a table of X and Y values then it makes sense. ( hint, there is )
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>>43744563
Albert says he knows Bernard doesn't know, Bernard would know if it was May 19 or June 18.
Given Alberts statement we can eliminate May and June.
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>>43744560
Evolved aspies? I don't fucking know how you can extract a date from that, it's retarded and makes no sense.
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>>43744576
Which are worse at math than 11 year old white kids. They're just better at cheating
>>
The students know these types of questions will be asked, so they are taught a systematic way to solve them. It's not impressive at all.
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>>43744653
How does it feel to be dumber than an 11 year old?
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>>43744653
I'm proud of you anon. It takes a lot of courage to admit how stupid you are.
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>>43744056
Studied there in when I was younger they do a VCE type exam in year 6, and the grade you get will determine the secondary school(yr-7 to 11) you go to
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June 18
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>>43744056
Here we go.
1. Albert has a month which is definetly not enough. But he also somehow deduces from his month that Bern CAN NOT KNOW the date too. But how can Bern know the date? Only when number is something unique like 19 or 18. Which means the month that Alb knows is not May or June.
2. Now Bern looks at his mugfuggen number which is 14,16,15 or 17. Since Bern now KNOWS the answer it's not 14 either (cause it duplicates so he wouldn't know). So the answer is 15,16 or 17 from July or August.
3. Alb now also somehow knows. It's not august since it has 2 numbers left, and Alb doesnt know the number. But if he knows, than he has a July.
4. With two powers combined it's July 16th.
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>>43744665
Logical thinking is systemic and everyone should learn it instead of endless repeating maths questions for practice
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>>43744677
Well, I've never had anything like that in my life, so I'm not admitting that I'm stupid.
>>
This is a terribly worded problem, 70% of the difficulty comes from how badly worded it is. Once you get over that fact, all you need to do is look at what months and days don't overlap with their knowledge, and it's easy as fuck
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>>43744665
agreed.
we had that too
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>>43744572
My point is that the logical analogy is flawed.
First they are given a single piece of information about the date and a list of possible answers.
Somehow, Albert is able to know details of Bernard's answer without knowing the answer himself? That is not a realistic scenario. If they are going to claim selective knowledge like this, they need a different analogy.
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>>43744745
its not flawed. Its just induction
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>>43744745

Albert knows Bernard doesn't know because he isn't a retard and realizes you that none of the dates in the month he was told were unique. Each day of the month also occurs in a different month.
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>>43744056
It's either June18 or May19

I hope it was June18, meaning it's likely she was conceived on September 11.
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>>43744745
Because Albert knows the month. And since Bern is not screaming that it's 19 OR 18, WE can deduce that that month is something "safe" from unique digits like July or August.
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>>43744644
Or, since it doesnt list which month she told albert, and which date she told bernard, but yet since bernard knew from only the date, the albert figured it out, logically, it was the date that never repeats in the list of 10. May 19th
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>>43744056
This test is extremely simple.

Albert knows the month.
Bernard knows the day.

Only unique days are June 18th and May 19th.

Albert says Bernard can't know it, means June and May are excluded.

Bernard now knows it, meaning it must be an unique day of the remaining.

Possible are July 16th, August 15th and August 17th.

Albert now knows the birthday as well, meaning the month must be unique.

Solution is July 16th.
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>>43744768
It's not induction in the least.
induction is the following:
1) n=1 is true
2) n true implies n+1 true for all n
therefore, all it is true for all n.

Unless you mean inductive reasoning, you're wrong
>>
>>43744056

This is shitty because of poorly translated, right?
>>
>>43744785
How does Albert know Bernard doesn't know when nobody told him Bernard doesn't know. If cheryl told him, then she told him more than just the month, which the problem states did not happen.
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>>43744832
It's kinda badly worded, but understandable.
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I think the most difficult part is the grammar.
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>>43744824
Why would I mean mathematical induction. Also that isnt maths induction
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>>43744880
Exactly.

Some fucking dickhead translated this wrong.
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>>43744056
>Singapore

Literally who?
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>>43744880
He knows Bernard doesn't know because the two months with unique dates are not the month Cheryl is born with.

The only way for Bernard to know the month with only the day is for the day to be 18 or 19. It isn't rocket science.
>>
Inductive reasoning is a logical process in which multiple premises, all believed true or found true most of the time, are combined to obtain a specific conclusion.

Inductive reasoning is often used in applications that involve prediction, forecasting, or behavior. Here is an example:

Every tornado I have ever seen in the United States rotated counterclockwise, and I have seen dozens of them.
We see a tornado in the distance, and we are in the United States.
I conclude that the tornado we see right now must be rotating counterclockwise.

A meteorologist will tell you that in the United States (which lies in the northern hemisphere), most tornadoes rotate counterclockwise, but not all of them do. Therefore, the conclusion is probably true, but not necessarily true. Inductive reasoning is, unlike deductive reasoning, not logically rigorous. Imperfection can exist and inaccurate conclusions can occur, however rare; in deductive reasoning the conclusions are mathematically certain.

Inductive reasoning is sometimes confused with mathematical induction, an entirely different process. Mathematical induction is a form of deductive reasoning, in which logical certainties are "daisy chained" to derive a general conclusion about an infinite number of objects or situations.
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>>43744823
i see, the wording is made to seem like bernard knew from being told, not from being told he couldnt figure it out from the date. But then again, how could albert say he doesnt know, he would have to assume he was told either 18th or 19th. what eliminated the 14th from this
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>>43744823
>Only unique days are June 18th and May 19th.
What is unique about those days?

>Albert says Bernard can't know it, means June and May are excluded.
Why?
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Holy shit, I just skimmed through the thread.

/pol/acks are fucking stupid.
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>>43744056
Grammar's wonky, the question would be meaningless to anyone but Singaporeans.
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>>43744937
ah, i see, the choice between repeating numbers or repeating months leaves only one choice after that fits neither
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>>43744644
Just because you can rule out May 19 and June 18 doesn't mean you can rule out those months altogether
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>>43744939
Because Alberts says with confidence that Bern DOESN'T KNOW.
The only way Bern CAN KNOW from number only, if when the numbers are unique like 18 or 19. If Albert is confident that means that he knows that month and that is a month without unique numbers - july or august.
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>>43744939
Have you read the question?
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>>43744056
Typical woman being this vague.

Bitch just tell me your fucking birthday.
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>>43744056
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>>43744979
Albert ruled them out, not us. Because he knows that month.
If he says "Bern doesn't know", that means Bern can't even probably know, because the month doesn't have unique numbers.
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>>43744939
>What is unique about those days?
Unique about those days 18 and 19 are that they only appear once. So if Bernard was told one of them, he would know the date.

>Why?
>Albert says Bernard can't know it, means June and May are excluded.
Albert was told either June or May, he could not exclude Bernard knowing the exact date because of the above unique days.

SWEDEN YES
Sweden sure is world class education.

>>43744937
>>43744971
Good job. At least you're not as bad as Captain Sweden.
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>>43744999
Thanks.
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>>43744823
>>43744709
See >>43744979
>>
>>43745061
See
>>43745013
>>
>>43744056
1: Albert knows the month, but not the date. Bernard knows the date, not the month. Albert can safely say that with just the date, you cant know the correct month, so it cant be a unique date. So all months with unique dates are gone, its not May or June.
2. Bernard knows the day and can now say what the cunt her birthday is. So it cant be the 14th, else he wouldnt know. Only August 15th, July 16th and August 17th are left.
3. The only way Albert can now know what the birthday is without getting a hint from Bernard, is to have only one date left in the month. It must be July 16th, as august has two choices left.
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>>43744745
>Somehow, Albert is able to know details of Bernard's answer without knowing the answer himself?
Of course! Depending on the answer. If Albert is told July or August, then that eliminates the possibility of May or June, because if Bernard had been told 18 or 19, he could have worked out the date with that information alone.
>not considering this as a possibility
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>>43744999
So basically the only ones who got it right are Russia, Australia, Switzerland and the USA. Everyone else is retarded.
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>>43745103
To be fair, a bunch of Americucks and Auscunts got it wrong.
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>>43745103
It isn't hard if it had proper wording.
What made it go viral was this was found in the exam of a 11 year old kid.
>>
But who was phone?
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>>43745103
Some of us haven't touched anything school related for years.
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>>43744056
>>43744999

Please apply this to adult society.
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>>43744176
Then you are autistic retard with an IQ of 90,
It's quite easy actually.
>>
Ok, so albert says "i know bernard cant know" meaning it isnt a month with a unique date. So bernard knows it isnt may or june, as july and august both all have dates that repeat in other months.

at that point bernard realizes this, since he knows the date, he applies it to the 2 months he has, and gets july 16th
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>>43744371
Freedom wins again :^)
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>>43745139
>had proper wording.
What is wrong with the wording?

I am confident I could have solved it back when I was 11.
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>>43744999
Yeah, this would have made sense if the question fucking said that Albert and Bernard were working together.
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>>43745139
We've had quite a lot of similiar tasks back in school. Our math teacher liked to give them as an extra, non-graded homework, just to see who cares about her subject enough.
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>>43744926
Yes, he can gleam this information from induction but in a real world scenario he couldnt know this. Maybe Bernard already knows the full date? Nobody told Albert what Bernard knows
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>>43745160
and since albert then knew after bernard did, it couldnt be repeating dates, otherwise bernard couldnt of figured it out, so it isnt the 14th. still fuzzy on what eliminates the 17th
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>>43744056
Why is this test in english?
Is the Main language in Singapur english?
Or is OP talking bullshit?
>>
July 16th, would be easy as fuck if written in native language of a 11 y/o kid
>>
it's a trick question.....


....there are no Singaporian kids named Cheryl, Albert, or Bernard.

they are all named Ching Chong Pow Zing and such.

Source: superior American public schooling.
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>>43745213
Albert knows the month from the start.
He knows that this month does not contain any unique dates, so he can say that Bern DOESN'T KNOW SHIT.
If it was may or june, then there was a chance that Bern can figure out the date just from number.
>>
>>43744791
It's July 16th
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>>43744056
>they want to know when her birthday is, Cheryl gives them a list of 10 possible dates.

Cheryl is a cunt.
>>
>>43745013
>>43744999
Bernard/Albert cannot simply rule out May or June because they contain non-repeating numbers.

Furthermore, Albert cannot be the the first to speak and know that at first Bernard doesn't know. Bernard never communicates his unknowingness and so the date could May the 19th or June the 18th.

Hence the statement 'but I know that Bernard does not know is false' - Albert simply cannot know that when being the first to speak

One has to assume that Cheryl isn't an idiot for this riddle to be worthwhile - but that isn't a valid assumption.
>>
answer here. please try everything you can before looking.
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>>43744939
the solution is right there..
are you a somali or something?
>>
>>43744056

This problem has a big mistake and nobody seems to notice. When Bernard narrows it down he says that he knows when the birthday is, basically the 3 options are July 16th, August 15th, and August 17th, the day Bernard got can be a 15 or 16 or 17. Whichever the day is Bernard would have said that he now knows the answer (and it's true), but Albert has no way to know which one of those 3 actually is. Unless this problem works with magic and Albert does some psychic shit he has no way to know which one of the three dates is the right one, they only added that part so the kids could solve it backwards and "know" that it is July 16th, but in real life you can't solve it that way because you don't know if the rules of the problem are absolutely true. The correct answer is that the birthday is either on Aug 15, 17, or July 16, and that Albert wasn't really sure at all when he claimed that he also knows.
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>>43745172
Depends on how your brain interprets english I guess. I didn't even know, that Albert knew the date, and Bernard knew the month to begin with. So I feel smart again, and Singapoor has shit english.
>>
>>43744056
>cheryl gives them a list of 10 possible dates
No, she doesn't. No one does that when asked their birthday.

Cheryl actually just told them outright what her birthday is and everyone goes on with their day. That is the answer.
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>>43745266
Albert
KNOWS
MONTH
FROM CHERYL
FROM THE BEGGINNING
SO HE CAN RULE OUT JUST FINE
YOU DENSE CUNT.
>>
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>>43744056
pol/tards
Also Bernard is a liar.
>>
>>43744056
As a teacher, this question is fucking retarded.
>>
if anyone can't understand this they are retarded, I got it after not sleeping for ages.
>>
>>43745175
They aren't working together in any way! The conversation between them at the bottom is all the communication they need.

>Albert knows that Bernard doesn't know.
>This is because Albert knows that Bernard would know if Bernard had been given the numbers 18 or 19.
>This is because these numbers are unique and knowing the number alone would be enough to work out the date
>Albert knows that it can't be either of these numbers because he was given either July or August, which these dates do not belong to
>Albert realises all this and declares that Bernard cannot possibly know the date
>Bernard hears him, realises the logical steps he has made, realises that the month is either July or August, and declares that he knows the date.
>Albert realises the logical steps Bernard has just made, and realises that the only way Bernard could know the date is if the day he was given is 16, because this is the only number possible in July or August that only occurs in one of them.
>Albert now knows the date too, July 16

tl;dr, it's not worded badly, all the information is there, you just need to look for it
>>
>>43745241
GJ Swissbro. 2/2 Swiss could solve it. Switzerland confirmed for smartest country.
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>>43745227
English is an official language there, but it's commonly mangled into "Singlish."

Nuance and specificity are often sacrificed in the process.
>>
June 17th idiots.
>>
>>43745227
English is the predominant language of education in Singapore, owing to its history as part of the British empire
>>43745385
>June 17th idiots
what's your reasoning behind this?
>>
>>43745376
seoul? Hah, I bet I know you.
>>
>>43745348
could be august 17th by your logic aswell :^)
>>
month guy states other guy CAN'T know the answer that means none of the 2 unique numbered months are it, leaving the 2 other months day guy realized this and said he knows the birthday now only way for day guy to reach this conclusion is by the only unique one left, month guy now knows it.
>>
this sprang me awake, anymore like this?
>>
>At first I don't know...
they still can't english
>>
>>43744891
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction
yes it is. Don't try to teach other people math before you learn it yourself
>>
>>43744056
> at first I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is...
> don't
> didn't*

How am I supposed to take this seriously?
>>
There is no answer. How could you trust a bitch you just met who's giving you the runaround on something as basic as a birthday? Albert and Bernard should just cane that bitch in true Singaporean fashion until she coughs up the real answer.
>>
>>43745418
nope, because if Albert had been told it was June and Bernard had been told 17, the conversation would have gone very differently. Albert wouldn't have been able to declare in the first place that Bernard can't possibly know. This question only has one logical answer
>>
>>43744218
lel
>>
>>43745418
>>43745493
oh my bad I read that as June, not August, sorry, ignore that response
>>
>>43745267
>knowledge of others peoples knowledge gives us knowledge
I get what they are trying to go for in this problem, but can anyone explain how this could ever be a real world scenario? It's a flawed analogy.
>>
Thank you, I needed reinforcement of my stupidity today.
>>
>>43745332
maybe you should put some of that logical thinking towards paying your debnts
>>
It can be any day, the logic they use is bunk and has no practical application.
>>
>>43745550
you're wrong.
>>
>>43745306
top kek
>>
>>43744056

Why is it not in screaming cats then?
>>
Albert is given the number (17) which is not unique, so he knows Bernard cannot know the exact date.
Bernard is given the month (June), but now realizes that the day cannot be unique. He figures out the date as June 17th.
After hearing Bernard's confirmation, Albert is also able to determine the date as June 17th.
>>
>>43745247
I shit you not, two of the Singaporeans in my uni course are called Cheryl and Bernard.
>>
>>43745529
In my experience, from high-school onwards, scenario-based math problems they give you are always hyper-unrealistic. It's just an academia circlejerk.
>>
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>>43745550
Retard detected.
>>
>>43744709
thank you for explaining russbro
>>
>>43745596
Are you retarded?
Bernard was told 16, and Albert July.
>>
>>43745529
it's acutally not. you use logic to eliminate all incorrect possibilities to find the true answer
>>
>>43745596
moth guy says it's not possible for day guy to know the month, that means the months with unique dates are ruled out, leaving the last 2 months, day guy says he now knows the month because of the remaining 2 there's only 1 unique number, month guy now knows only way for day guy to know the month is by the unique one, this is childs play.
>>
>>43745645
If Albert was told July, how did he know Bernard could not know the exact date?
>>
>>43745596
retard, that way it could have been August 17th as well. Albert doesn't tell Bernard anything that isn't in the discussion at the bottom.
>>
>>43745602
English names mate.

Most asians re-name themselves when they go to university here so people actually know how to pronounce it.
>>
>>43745683
because both of the numbers in July belong to other dates as well
>>
>>43745683
>exact date?
Because both numbers in July are not unique.
>>
>>43745683
Because the only way for Bernard to deduce the date from the day is if he was told the day was 18 or 19. You are confusing date with day here.
>>
>>43745683
Because there are no unique days in July. No matter which of the two days it actually was in July, that same day could have also been in a different month. If it was the 14th, it could be July OR August. If it was the 16, it could be July OR May. Therefore, there was no way for Bernard to know from the day alone, given that the month is July
>>
>>43745638
lol, that pic
>>
>>43745348
Or Bernard could stop being a piece of shit and tell Albert which day the dumb psycho bitch told him so they could eat cake.
>>
bring on more of these logic deducers, /pol/ needs more of these we are rusty.
>>
>>43744302
This is the right answer
>>
>>43745779
This. Anyone got anymore? I'm in the mood for some puzzles

>>43745768
I don't know why this made me laugh hysterically
>>
may 19
>>
>>43744056
>date questions
how are they related to math again other than linguistic/logic questions to torture children with?
>>
>>43745805
It's not though, you autistic thunder nigger
>>
>>43744371
No offense, but what a fucking stupid answer to a fucking stupid question.
>>
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>>43744056
>can't solve

Alright it's official. I'm stupid
>>
>>43745822
so you can tell when your boss is a lying sack of shit, through logical deduction.
>>
>>43745713
May 15 May 16 May 19

June 17 June 18

July 14. July 16

August 14. August 15. August 17

The Answer is : June 17. Tips: Put your self in Albert and Bernard, each statement at a time.

"Albert: I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is,"

Albert is given only the Birthday Month. He could be given either May, June, July or August.

"Albert:. . . . but i know that Bernard does not know too. "

This is the part where the solution is reveal. Whats makes Albert said those statement. Because Bernard who is only given the Birthday Date if where to receive the date 18 or 19, hence makes Bernard automatically knows Cheryl's Birthday, as there is only two unique numbers in the list.
But Albert did said that Bernard does not know too hence it's safe to say we can eliminate May 19 & June 18.

"Bernard: At first I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is, but I know now. "

This is the confirmation statement. Its true at first Bernard didn't know when Cheryl's Birthday is.

"Bernard: At first I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is, ... "

This reconfirms Albert previous statement is true. Then Benard said,

"Benard:... but i know now. "

Because, for example if Bernard were given the Date 17, its true at 1st he wouldn't know the Birthday as Date 17 could be either June or August. But since Albert's made that 1st statement, he is now assured that the answer is June 17. You may try example for if Bernard given Date as 15, it could either be May or August, hence that makes Bernard not knowing the answer. The hint is that he does know the answer, and the final answer is June 17.
>>
>>43744400
how does this get them to the moon?
>>
>>43744218
top kek m8
>>
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>>43745834
>Couldn't figure it out
>>
>>43745658
It's not realistic. Albert and Bernard seems to partially know each others thoughts without knowing the solution.
It's like if I came up with a scenario about using a key to open a lock, then bent the laws the the universe by telling you the key only works if you know the key works.

The world does not work like that. The problem is that asian cultures (primarily India) explain everything with analogies, even to the point of where the analogy makes no sense, unless you already know the solution, which makes the analogy worthless. Come up with a better analogy or don't use an analogy at all. It's that simple.
>>
>>43745856
settle down cobber
>>
>>43744056

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is why most kids are shit at math nowadays.

Who the hell cares about Cheryl and her beta orbiters, I aced spoken tests because I knew and cared about solving a problem, and always failed written exams because who the fuck gives a shit about Johnny and his room wallpapers.
>>
>>43745856
there's one big, glaring problem with the answer being June 17 and I don't know why you haven't noticed it. Albert wouldn't have been able to definitively say that Bernard doesn't know the date, if Albert has been told June, because Albert would know that June 18 is a unique date being the only one with an 18, and so from his point of view at this time, this full date could have been possible, and Bernard could have known, and Albert wouldn't have been able to truly declare that Bernard couldn't know. This is why it can't be June 17.
>>
>>43745919
HOWEVER

Cheryl then tells Albert and Bernard separately the month and the day of her birthday respectively.

>respectively

Okay I was wrong, I admit it. It's July 16th.
>>
>>43745930
>I'm not stupid, it's the education not being tailored to my needs!
>>
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>>43745537
following the same logical deduction
the answer boils down to NO.
>>
>>43745989
>education

You honestly call that an education?
>>
>>43745306
Yes, I was dense about that.

But know I'm dense about the logic of how the two dates in August were eliminated. Please explain - the conversation would be the same if Cheryl says the 17th to Bernard.
>>
>>43746019
because month guy said the day guy can't know it and if day guy got any of those uniques he would know the month and day.
>>
>>43745907
they gave each other clues based on what they were saying. elimination.

>i don't know, but i know he doesn't know
if he actually knew it, then it would be so simple and stare me right in the face
>he knows that i don't know either
then it couldn't possibly be any of these

and so on
>>
Also I just found out one of the girls in this picture is "Cheryl".

I know which one it might not be, but I don't know which one it is.

Can you figure out which girl is Cheryl?
>>
>>43744999
>15 to 17, with only 14 occuring twice
wat
>>
It's 50/50 July you fucking cocksuckers.
It's not math, it's a retarded Layton-tier quiz.
>>
This is problem solving, not math...

All math is logic, not all logic is math.
>>
>>43745907
>It's not realistic. Albert and Bernard seems to partially know each others thoughts without knowing the solution.
They don't have to. I don't understand how someone can fail to comprehend this problem even after reading the solution. For simplicity's sake, I'll call the two guys "month" and day".

- Month knows it's in July. That means day has to know either the 14th, or the 16th.
- Whether it's the 14th or the 16, there are TWO months it could possibly be in. Therefore regardless of which of those two days it is, month knows that day cannot possibly know the correct date.
- Day figures "If he knows I DEFINITELY don't know the date, that rules out May and June. Since those have unique days (18th, 19th), then if month was told either May or June, he'd think I COULD know the date"
- This leaves July or August. Day knows the date is on the 16th, meaning July is the only option
>>
>>43746092
if he knew then it implied he never had to guess
>>
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>>43746086
Not that rare tbh. I see Bosnia on /int/ pretty often
>>
>>43744176
Chinese make the majority of Singapore but the country operates in, fluent, English.
>>
Phase One - Bernard gets a date and Albert gets a month. Somehow Albert finds out that Bernard doesn't have the answer. Albert comes to realization that the number told to Bernard can't be 19 and 18. He tells that he has no idea when the birthday is.
Phase Two - Since Albert still has no anwser and he knows that the date cant be 18 or 19, Bernard realizes that the month cant be June, because otherwise Albert would know the answer. That leaves August, July and May. But suddenly Bernard has the answer.
Phase Three - The only way the Bernard could know the answer is he was told that the date was 17.
Albert understands this and also gives the correct answer: August 17
>>
anyone got an even more complicated version of this?
>>
>>43746025
Singapore's education system ranks very highly in international tests
>>
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One of these girls is Cheryl, HOWEVER, the other 2 are not Cheryl.

Cheryl's boyfriend knows which one is Cheryl even without looking at her face, BUT she must be wearing her uniform without the jacket. The other girls boyfriends can't tell the difference between their girlfriends, but they know which one is Cheryl.

So, tell me, which one is Cheryl and why?
>>
>>43746162
they are #1 in all education stats.
>>
>>43746181
Doesn't matter, they're all degenerate sluts.
>>
This cleared it up for me.
Albert says 'I DEFINITELY FOR 100% SURE KNOW ABSOLUTELY THAT BERNARD CANNOT KNOW FROM HIS NUMBER ALONE. I.E. THERE IS 0% CHANCE THAT HE WAS GIVEN A DATE IN THE MONTHS OF MAY OR JUNE BECAUSE THAT MEANS THERE IS A >0 CHANCE THAT HE COULD WORK IT OUT.'
>>
>>43746181
>looking like that
>having boyfriends

They must suck the dick something fierce.
>>
>>43746162

Lay that over with some stats about autism in Singapore, see if we get a match :^)

My point is either a die-hard nerd or an autist would care to waste time on these kind of tests.
>>
>>43746234
Fucking this. Why are people not getting this?
>>
>>43744056
They probably do problems just like this regularly.

Piss easy to solve if you know what to look for, even for a child.
>>
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>>43745812
This became viral here. It's a question in an exam for 6 year olds.

Chinks and their maths man.
>>
>>43746156
Shit, I think that might be right.
>>
>>43746285
90.
>>
>>43744999
but Albert wouldn't know the date since he could have been told August and Bernard still would have known, so bernards statement couldnt have provided enough for albert to know the date

so do we just have shift to assume that albert knew the date and based on that figure out the month and day?
>>
>>43744056
this is simple logic.
if schools would actually teach that instead
of stupid maths and formulas then people
would actually learn to solve things...

It's not too hard though.
>>
>>43746285
87
>>
>>43746285
87
>>
>>43746285
It's a car park, not a sequence of numbers. There's no way of knowing the answer.
>>
>>43746123
how did albert know at that point though
>>
>>43746258
The key word is respectively, which I admit I didn't pay attention to when I first read it.

I wasn't aware that Albert was told the month, and Bernard was told the date, and in that instance June 16 or July 17 can be the correct answer.
>>
>>43746285
87
>>
>>43746285
87
The numbers are upside down
>>
>>43746092
Bernand says at first he didn't know but now knows.. out of 5 possible answers so there are 3 unique numbers and 1 occurring twice so it's either 15,16,17 . saying this Albert can rule out August because it occurs twice so you are left with July 16
>>
>>43746285
87
>>
>>43746346
Hello :^)
>>
>>43744056
This isn't a maths question, this is a test of patience to put up with being bombarded by names bullshit that has nothing to do with maths.
>>
>>43746285
Damn chinks and their backward ass numbering systems
>>
>>43746285
87
>>
>>43746285
87
>>
>>43746234
Actually all we can see is that he wasn't given an 18 or 19. 14 - 17 precludes no months whatsoever.
>>
>>43744572
So wait... couldn't the people just count the number of people with a certain color of eyes and deduce the color of their eyes?
>>
>>43746285
hahahaha 87 lmfao, clever chinks, look at me trying to find some elaborate formula.
>>
>>43746285
Cause I will never get the answer.
It has to be 69
>>
>>43746343
June 16 cannot be the answer. If Albert KNOWS that Bernard CANNOT know the date from just the day alone, then it cannot be in either May or June, because both of those have days which are unique to that month alone.

If Albert was told either May or June, he could not say with certainty that Bernard doesn't know the date.
>>
Albert is told a month that does not have a unique date number
Bernard is told a non-unique number

Albert determines from the month with no unique dates that Bernard cannot determine what the full date is

Bernard, now knowing from Albert's statement regarding non-unique date numbers, compares that number with remaining dates to come to the conclusion about what the full date is and tells Albert as such.

How does Albert then logically choose between July 16 and August 15 or August 17?
>>
>>43746362
>saying this Albert can rule out August because it occurs twice
what do you mean?
>>
chinks do have a sense of humor.
>>
Why didn't Cheryl just tell them her birthday?

Cunt.
>>
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You have been given the task of transporting 3,000 apples 1,000 miles from Appleland to Bananaville. Your truck can carry 1,000 apples at a time. Every time you travel a mile towards Bananaville you must pay a tax of 1 apple but you pay nothing when going in the other direction (towards Appleland).

What is highest number of apples you can get to Bananaville?
>>
I don't understand any if this. They don't give enough info. The answer could be anything
>>
>>43746156
>>43745418
It can't be August 17 at all because the conversation would have gone like this:

Albert: I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is and neither does Bernard.
Bernard: I didn't know but now I do know
Albert: ...I still don't know

it could also be August 15 by your logic
>>
>>43746394
I thought this too. Until you follow my reasoning. Albert knows 100% for certain that Bernard can't know the date from number alone. 100% certain. The only way that's possible is if Albert knows that the month is not May or June.
>>
>>43746444

fuckin road tax leaving me with... 2/3 of the product? Seriously fuck new Zealot.
>>
/pol/ - Childhood math questions
>>
>>43746444
>Your truck can carry 1,000 apples at a time

nvm then
>>
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Five pirates are parting ways after finding a treasure of 100 pieces of gold. The pirates decide to split it based on a vote. Each pirate, from oldest to youngest, gets to propose a plan on how to split the gold.

If at least 50 percent of the other remaining pirates agree on the plan, that is how they will split the gold. If less than 50 percent of the pirates agree, the pirate who came up with the plan will be thrown overboard. Each pirate is smart, greedy, and wants to throw as many others overboard as possible without reducing the amount of gold they get.

What plan can the first (oldest) pirate propose to live and get as much gold as possible?
>>
>>43746444
None. Bananaville has placed an embargo on your apples.
>>
We should have a thread like this every day. It was fun.
>>
>>43746444
none
>>
>>43746419
Because Albert knows the month.
If told July, he says 16th.
If told August, as would be the case in another scenario then he WOULDNT finally say he knew the date. We can deduct July 16th from the fact Albert CAN say the date for sure.
>>
>>43744951
You would know about shitty grammar
>>
>>43746444
1000 apples
1000 miles
per mile 1 apple is removed
so you would get 0 or 3?
>>
>>43746527
3 probably, the last mile you're technically already brought it to bannaville.
>>
>>43746520
Keep in mind you can drop apples off along the way, drive back (for free), and pick up the apples you dropped off when driving back toward Bananaville.

I know right.
>>
>>43746444
>This is what libertarians actually believe
>>
>>43746444
personally i'm against bananaville's immigration policy.. but zero
>>
>>43746090
Those girls have a high chance of not being Singaporean.
They do have a high chance of being of Japanese descend though.
>>
>>43746492
40 gold to the third oldest, 30 gold to the second oldest and 20 for himself
>>
>>43746444
A possible strategy would be carrying max load apples for a mile, storing them there and getting the other apples over there too.

First you'd lose 3 apples per mile until 1002 apples are lost after 334 miles.

Remaining you have 1998 apples and 666 miles.

You repeat the same and lose 2 apples each time for 499 miles.

There remain 1000 apples and 167 miles.

Thus you end up with 833 apples.
>>
>>43746542
>>43746523
>>
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>>43746586
>>
>>43746444
500
>>
>>43746564
But then you would arrive at bananaville with no apples and having the apples from the last trip doesn't help you since you can only carry 1000 max per trip
>>
>>43746520
>>43746502
>>43746489
>>43746479
Answer is 500. What the question doesn't tell you is you can drop your apples mid route.

So 1000 > 500 mid route
Back another 1000 > 500 mid route
Back another 1000 > 500 mid route
Now you have 1500 at the mid of the route
So you bring 1000 over and you are left with 500. The remaining 500 can go rot in a pile cause they can't be moved.
>>
August 17
>>
>>43746467
Can't be 18 and 19, cant be June, the guy with the date suddenly has the answer. That only leaves 17th of August. Or am i missing something?
>>
>>43744717

It's because you're not. This question is absolutely absurd in its structural integrity, availability of information, etc. One is supposed to extrapolate the date from available information, except there isn't any.

One cannot reasonably be expected to be able to answer this kind of question, as its available information is not made clear, with wide assumptions needed to be made in order to even hazard a guess.

Also, the OP is posting from Australia, greatly increasing the likelihood that he is shitposting. And since nobody gives a flying giraffe shit about Singapore except Singaporean nationals, allowing me to extrapolate that OP is a buttblasted Singaporean shitposting about OP's illogical question.

TLDR it's unsolvable and anybody convincing themselves it actually is solvable is also deluding themselves.

Here's a question:

OP tells everybody that Singaporean 14-year-olds are smarter than they are, and uses a question with little to no usable data on a children's test as proof. Anon A and Anon B both claim to know the answer, but they are talking out of their ass because there is not enough information available to make a solid, verifiable conclusion.

How does Anon C know that OP, Anon A and Anon B are full of shit?
>>
>>43746625

Fuck I'll just do it by night or smuggle it and not get taxed then.
>>
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>>43746625
>The remaining 500 can go rot in a pile cause they can't be moved.

;_;
>>
>>43746444
By stopping and dropping off apples on the road and taking multiple trips, I can get an arbitrary number of apples delivered.
>>
>>43744534
>so he ONLY knew the month
Except B was told the day.
A was told the month.
>>
>>43745332
Why isn't it May 19th?
>>
>>43746523
what a mind fuck
>>
>>43746444
Shoot the thieving Bananaville fucks in the face and transport the damn apples.
Fuck you.
>>
>>43746697

By looking at the question and provided information and determining everyone in this thread is being a twat except you?
>>
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>>43746804
>>
>>43746789
then bernard would know from the start since it is the only 19th
>>
>>43744056
WHEN DURING THE PROBLEM DOES IT TELL YOU IN WHAT ORDER BERNARD AND ALBERT TELL EACH OTHER.

THIS IS BULLSHIT.

I GET THE PREMISE, BUT IT DOESN'T TELL YOU THE ORDER IN WHICH THE INFORMATION IS REVEALED.
>>
>>43744619
correct
>>
The analogies always make these things harder to wrap your head around. Just use numbers
>>
>>43746492
Let's work backways.

If only the youngest remains, he can get it all.

If 2 remain, the 2nd youngest is guaranteed to be thrown and the youngest will win it all.

If 3 remain, the 2nd youngest will want to agree no matter what or he too will be thrown over board meaning that the 3rd will get all the gold.

If 4 remain, the 3rd will want to vote no so he can get all the gold. A no however would mean that 2nd and 1st would get no gold so if the 4th offers the 2nd and 1st one piece each, he gets to keep 98.

If 5 remain, the 4th will want to vote no so he gets the 98 gold. All the oldest pirate has to do is offer a single piece each to two arbitrary pirates from the first 3 and the oldest gets to keep 98.
>>
>>43746876
Yes it does. It's literally written right there. Albert speaks, then Bernard, then Albert again
>>
Fuck questions like these.
Perhaps if I had a few examples previously I could have answered.
However I hadn't been taught that the layout of
name1: text
name2: text
name1: text
Is meant to be a conversation between the two, and not inner monologue or something else.

The maths tutors that write these questions needs to consult someone from the English department, so that their questions make any fucking sense.
>>
>>43744999
I have a question.

>then it is possible that her birthday may be May 19 or June 18. This means B may know when C's birthday is.

Wouldn't he just be able to limit it down to those two as opposed to know when the birthday is?
>>
>>43746789
okay, I fucked it up all the way but finally got the answer from all the other pol-tards. So here it is:

Albert is told a month that does not have a unique date number
Bernard is told a non-unique number

Albert determines from the month with no unique dates that Bernard cannot determine what the full date is and says as such.

Bernard, now knowing from Albert's statement regarding non-unique date numbers, compares the number he has with remaining dates to come to the conclusion about what the full date is and tells Albert as such. (Because Bernard had a number and all he had to do was eliminate one instance of that number, as per Albert's original statement, to determine that it was the other instance)

Albert, knowing the month, realizing from Bernard's answer that the number cannot be a repeated number of the remaining dates and already knowing the month, can come to a conclusion about what the the full date is.

Your task is to figure out what number can satisfy those conditions - not enter the perspective of either Albert or Bernard.
>>
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>>43744056
This was easy tbh. Now try to solve this problem, seen on a regular TV show.
>>
>>43746934
Oh it's because he already knows the Month.

Sorry I'm thick lads.
>>
>>43746945
Why would you eliminate May 19 before July 18th? They're both unique numbers
>>
>>43746444
3000. Drive backwards on the way to Bannaville.
>>
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>>43746969
>mfw China uses numbers in English
>>
>>43746697
So animalism is the ultimate wisdom?
>>
>>43746980
What are you even talking about?
>>
>>43746969
Translate it into English at least.
>>
>>43746980
Nm. I'm dyslexic
>>
>>43746945

Here's the problem. You don't have enough information available. Everything in your equation is conjecture.
>>
>>43747003
I kept seeing July 18th for some strange reason
>>
>>43746914
oh wow. the information is being publicly shared?

fucking. the problem should state that, then.

in information scarcity problems you need to reveal whether information is public or not. I thought it was revealed between the individuals sequentially in the same way that it is revealed TO the individuals sequentially.

this problem needs to be redesigned.
>>
>>43746876
>>43746907
pretty sure all the pirate has to do is kill 3 other pirates for there to be 2 pirates and thus his plan must be fulfilled.
>>
>>43747044
Then the other remaining pirate will vote no to his plan and he'll be thrown overboard. Way to go, cockwagon.
>>
>>43747029

Even with the information being shared, one has to make logical assumptions, meaning the question really has no verifiable answer. It's bogus.
>>
>>43744056
C tells A the month and B the day.
A remarks that they do not know which choice it is based only on the month, but that B does not know based only on the day either.
Since B does not immediately know the answer from the number received, it can't be either of the unique days, 18 or 19.
Since this knowledge would leave June with only one option and was not selected as the correct month, it cannot be in June.
With June 17 removed as an option, August is the only month left with one possible day. Since B is sure he knows the answer based just on the day, it must be August 17.
>>
>>43747069
less than 50%, 50% is not less than 50%
>>
>>43747005
I don't know this language (I assume its Japanese), I think that all you need to know is that the triangle is isocele. There is a single triangle isocele which verifies this configuration.
>>
It's august 17.

According to Albert, he doesn't know and Bernard doesn't know. That means the day is not unique within the set of all dates. We can cross out June 18 and May 19. Albert is aware of this as well and can't figure out the birthday, which means June 17 can be crossed out as well, since if it were in June Albert would be able to figure it out since June 17 is the only option in June after crossing out June 18.

Bernard then says he's figured it out, which must mean of the subset {August 14, July 14, May 15, August 15, May 16, July 16, August 17} it must be a date with a unique day since Bernard knows the days.
>>
>>43747078
They don't have to make any assumptions at all. Read one of the many explanations in this thread, dipshit.
>>
>>43746990
drive backwards on the side of the road, thus avoiding all taxes
>>
Only real problem with the question is that it never states Albert knew that Bernard was given a date only.
>>
>>43747102
>They don't have to make any assumptions at all. Read one of the many explanations in this thread, dipshit.

I feel badly for you.
>>
>>43747090
>If at least 50 percent of the other remaining pirates agree on the plan
>remaining pirates
The one who proposes a plan does not get to vote on it.
>>
>>43747082
>Since this knowledge would leave June with only one option and was not selected as the correct month

Selected by who?
>>
>>43747118
You should. It's really unbearable having to deal with retards like yourself.
>>
>>43746980
Albert knows that Bernard knows a number and so if the actual month that Albert was informed about was in May or June, then he would know that Bernard new the full date because Bernard could simply piece it together from the unique number.

However, Albert realizes that month he has been told does not have a unique number and so by the known month not having a unique number Bernard cannot determine the full date as Bernard only has a number.

One has to eliminate May and June on the basis that if Albert was told May or June then it would be possible for Bernard to know the answer straight up. Note here the word possible. Albert is saying it is impossible, so it cannot be a month where it is possible, which is months containing unique numbers.

Albert and Bernard aren't trying to solve it together, they are just having a retarded conversation.
>>
>>43744056
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START WITH THIS SHIT OR WHERE THE LOGIC COMES FROM HOLY FUCK AHAHAHHAHAAH
>>
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>>43747078
There is enough information. Bernard knows the day and decides after some deliberation that he can find the answer based just on that. You have to eliminate some options until you can find a row with just one option remaining.

>>43747146
Albert. He knows the month, but at that point June would be left with only one possible day so he would choose it if it were the correct answer.
>>
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>>43746969
ah chinese
>>
>>43747078
wrong. one knows from the fact that at first, from the month, albert KNOWS that b cannot know because his piece of information shows that b's piece of information has two non-unique numbers.

that's how you know.

the problem is bad because it doesn't describe the process by which the information is revealed.
>>
>>43747011
it seems like it until you realize that you aren't meant to take the perspective of either party. You are meant to use their perspectives to find the logic rules that exist. You job then becomes a matter of determining which numbers fit those logic rules.

Believe me, I spent over an hour being retarded on this problem.
>>
>everyone in this thread confirmed for never taking a math class
fuck i knew /pol/ was retarded but jesus....
>>
>>43746492
If at least 50 percent of the !other! remaining pirates agree on the plan, that is how they will split the gold. If less than 50 percent of the pirates agree,

if 50% of others agree it passed and you live, if less than 50% agree you die, you yourself can't pass the plan but you can make it so only 50% don't agree.
>>
Real mathematician here. The answer is July 16.
>>
>>43747173
>he would choose it if it were the correct answer.

Except neither of them know the correct answer. A knows the month which is all he knows, B knows the date which is 14-17. Neither pieces of information on its own form a complete answer.
>>
July 16th
>>
>>43747150

I see a lot of insults, but I don't see you actually defending the integrity of the question yourself; rather, you point to one of the "many" explanations throughout this thread--each one of them conflicting and, as I've stated already, making wide assumptions (injecting their own interpretation of information in a question so lackluster in its structural presentation as to be unusable) about the available information.

You really aren't making me feel stupid. I read the question multiple times. Whatever information there is or was available in that question is lost in its presentation.

Keep thinking you're smarter than everybody else and that you can "read between the lines", convince yourself that you're so much smarter than everybody else when realistically you're a dolt for even attempting to solve this amalgamation of grammatical stupidity.
>>
>>43747359
> but I don't see you actually defending the integrity of the question yourself

Jesus Christ, I already explained it myself.: >>43746116
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>>43747359
dude, it's 100% logical.
>>
>>43747304
>1. Albert does not know
So the month is not sufficient.
>2. Albert knows that Bernard doesn't know
So the number Bernard received could not have been unique. It must be 14, 15, 16, or 17. 18 and 19 are unique and if the day is not enough, it can't be either of those.
>3. Bernard now knows
Eliminating day 18 and 19 reduce the month of June to only one possible day. Since Albert does not know, this means that June is not the month he was given. Eliminating days 18 and 19 and the month of June (only June 17 remains), 17 becomes a unique day and Bernard now knows the birthday. Since Bernard was given the day and only one day is unique, if he says that he knows it must be that one.

That one is June 17.
>>
>>43746492
is this solvable?

this game has counterplay, I'm not sure how this is solvable
>>
>>43747407

You didn't defend yourself. How does he know it's in July? Where in that question does it suggest that he knows it's July? You cannot answer a question if you don't actually have any further insight into it. What you're doing is making logical assumptions, which do not lead to concrete conclusions.

It's a very basic concept.
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>>43747435
>That one is June 17. Typo, I meant to say August 17. I filled in the disproven options with red and a single row has only one option, so if Bernard claims to know conclusively then he must have gotten that one.
>>
>>43747435
For Albert to say with 100% confidence that Bernard cannot know the answer from the number alone, that immediately rules out all months that have a unique day in them at all - The month Albert was told CANNOT be May or June.
>>
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>>43745332
It is August 17 you have minor problems in your logic.
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>>43747523
I'm tired. The answer is the same if you eliminate the rest of May, it leaves 17 as unique.
>>
>>43747435
>>43747523
>Eliminating June

Based on what. What information is being shared back and forth between A and B.
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>>43747476
He knows it's in July because from what A said (that he knows with certainty that the day alone is insufficient), B can logically conclude that it cannot be May or June. If July and August are left, and he knows it's the 16th, the only available option is July 16.
>>
>>43747359
yo yo nigga, you think youse be smarts cuz yall can READ and shit. yall are stoopid nigga. lookit whitey he thinks he smart cuz he knows how to read.
>>
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>>43747571
The information that's spoken by each of them in this conversation
>>
>>43747571
Exactly what is being said. That is dialogue.
>>
Poorly fucking worded, makes it a million times worse.
>>
>>43744400
Bernard says he knows know hes been told its not May or July
>So it must be July 16, August 15, or August 17
Albert says he knows now that Bernard knows.
>So it must be July 16th

Bernard knew the day to begin with so he could pick up the right answer amongst the 3 dates
July 16, August 15, or August 17
while at this point, Albert only knows the month and that Bernard found the right answer

with those two pieces of information alone he can't find the right answer with a 100% certainty.
He just can assert that the day isn't 14 but has no way to tell if it's 15 16 or 17

so Albert is a liar.
>>
>>43747629
The grammar is a bit stilted but the meaning is clear.
>>
>>43744056
I'm a linguist, and here's what I immediately saw from the pic:

1) "Albert and Bernard just become friends with Cheryl"
>"just" is used as "merely" rather than "recently", making this a hilarious statement.

2) "does not know too"
>"too" should be "either"

3) "At first I don't know"
>"don't" should be "didn't"

So I may not be smarter than a Singaporean 14-y-o, but at least I'm better at English than whoever wrote that problem down.
>>
>>43746586
nice, excel confirms your answer. 833 is the max
>>
>>43746945
I found July 16 following your explanation, is that correct?
>>
>>43747670
Also, you are now aware that Albert, Bernard, and Cheryl stand for A, B, C.

A speaks before B, so it's easier to keep track while doing mental calculations.
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>>43744056
May 19th because it's the only one that doesnt repeat.

Im over 20, white, dropped out of HS, am NEET, and play videogames all day.
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>>43747714
18 doesn't repeat either.
>>
>>43747714
>dropped out of HS
It shows.
>>
>>43747725
Well then I got a 50% chance, dats pretty gud
>>
>>43747714
If it was the 19th, then Bernard would have known her birthday was May 19th without Cheryl telling him the month.
>>
>>43747749
You've got a 0% chance because you're way off.
>>
>>43746181
the middle one's the one not wearing a jacket...and not with hair down, and not with purple tie
>>
>>43747749
If they are both non-repeating but the problem says that he doesn't know, then it can't be either of them.
>>
>>43747573

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion based off of:

"Cheryl then tells Albert and Bernard separately the month and the day of her birthday respectively."

I DONT KNOW WHEN THE BIRTHDAY IS BUT I KNOW BERNARD DOESNT EITHER
I DIDNT KNOW FIRST BUT NOW I DO
THEN NOW I KNOW LOL

The structure of the question is unsound, the presentation of the information is muddied. You cannot solve this problem without making logical assumptions. Ergo, you cannot solve this problem. Spare me your ego-stroking and your insults. You cannot solve this problem. Accept it and move on with your life.
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>>43747804
The point of the problem is that there are possible answers but they are rejecting them when they say "I don't know" so you can remove them as possibilities.
>>
>>43744155
A*
>>
>>43746374
>>43746346
Fuck I miss HK so much.
>>
>>43747635
It just uses non-logical logic.
If Albert is 100% Sure about his answer (Which is impossible if he was a human), then it must be July.
>>
>>43747599
>>43747607

You guys do realise that if that's the spoken dialogue between the two, it rules nothing out.

1st line A means neither of them knows the date because they've been given seperate pieces of information. 2nd line B is complete nonsense because no other information has been shared and therefore he can't know as a certainty. Same with 3rd line A.
>>
>>43747804
The wording is logically sound, get over it.

There is no other solution to this problem as it is worded.

It's not shameful to be unable to figure it out, but it is shameful to be unwilling to identify your shortcomings.
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>>43747894
They know which sort of information the other got, so when one says they don't know it rules out the choices that were possible from that piece of information.
>>
>>43747804
>>43747894

There are no assumptions to be made. It's completely illogical, albeit an unnatural and forced scenario.

A knows the month
B knows the day

If B was told 18th or 19th, he'd know the answer immediately.
If A was told May or June, he could not say with certainty that B cannot know, because of the above point.
If A is told July or August, he can say with certainty that B's information alone is not enough to find the answer.

By saying this out loud, in the first line of dialogue, it signals to B that the month is July or August through the logic above.
If the date was the 14th, they could not deduce the answer.
If the date was either the 15th or the 17th, A could not figure out the answer just from the fact that B knows it, as he'd have to options to choose from. The 3rd line of dialogue rules this out.
If the date is the 16th, B knows the answer to be July 16th and declares this. Since the month that A was told in the first place was July, he knows the only possible answer is July 26th
>>
I read the answer over and over and I just don't see how you guys can get to the fact that Albert knows the month and Bernard knows the day. All A says is that B doesn't know the answer.
>>
>>43747909
>It's not shameful to be unable to figure it out, but it is shameful to be unwilling to identify your shortcomings.

No, this question literally is unsolvable.
>>
>>43747893
> non-logical logic.
Burger logic indeed
>>
>>43748017
>Cheryl tells Albert and Bernard separately the months and the day of her birthday respectively.

The word respectively is the key. The wording is clunky, and it would make more sense if they omitted the middle part and made it say:
>Cheryl tells Albert and Bernard the month and the day respectively.

"Respectively", indicates that the two lists (names, month/day) correspond in that order, i.e. Albert is told the month, Bernard is told the day.
>>
>>43747976
Well yes, they know they received individually the date and month. A knows it's either May, June, July or August, B know it's either 14, 15, 16 or 17. Unless either of them straight up says what their piece of information is, just knowing what the other options are is meaningless.
>>
>>43744056
==PAY ATTENTION TO ME FAGGOTS==

The problem text is flawed because the English is gooky. It's not terrible, but its not quite precise enough. This doesn't prove that kids in Singapore are good at math because the problem is hard. It just proves that the English in this problem is shitty.

I see what the problem is getting at, though:

One of the boys knows the month, and the other one knows the day.

But they both have a list of 10 possible dates

The boy that knows the day, but not the month, is able to deduce it from the list, because he is lucky that the day happens to be 19, and only one date is on the 19th day of the month (May 19).

The other boy is able to also figure it out only by noticing that the first boy figured it out. He also notices that there is only one unique possibility.

Basically both boys noticed that only one date has a unique day-of-the-month. This is an easy concept, but the problem only appears difficult to us because the English is not quite precise enough.

Explaining something in a shitty way doesn't make it a difficult concept.
>>
>>43748036
>this question literally is unsolvable
No it isn't.

If Cheryl had told Bernard it was 19 or 18, then Bernard would have known the month as well.

So: if Cheryl had told Albert that it was May or June, then Albert would have said "it is possible you (Bernard) already know her birthday".

So it can't be May or June.

The rest of the problem follows this same logic.
>>
>>43748115
Read this >>43748011

The information they give to each other through the dialogue is more than enough to rule everything out until you're left with one answer.
>>
>>43748115
No, you're misunderstanding the question A knows that it is month X and B knows that it is day Y, but based on what they say you have to determine how it is possible for them to have concluded that they did or did not know based on the information they received.
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>>43747635

you forget that Albert knows the month, and since he seems to know which of the three it is, it must be July since that one doesn't leave 2 options
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>>43748126
The wording is fine.
>>
>>43748126
Nevermind I'm an idiot. 18 is also unique.

The problem is simply flawed.
>>
>>43748011
This, although you have an unfortunate typo in the end, consequently having an 11th answer magically appearing out of your magic hat.
>>
>>43748168
>>43748227
I know they know the specific month and date they're given. I'm stating that each of them can only speculate on the range of options that the other has.
>>
>>43748276
The wording is flawed.
The question isn't
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>>43748126
I thought so too at first but the problem is perfect, it probably just needs a preface.

at no point is any information revealed other than the statements made by A and B. they do not reveal their knowledge.
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>>43748163
>The rest of the problem follows this same logic.

You're making logical assumptions to come to this conclusion. Ergo, no, you cannot answer it. You guys can keep parroting each other claiming that it can be answered while simultaneously all reaching completely different conclusions (which can be attributed to the fact that you're each making logical assumptions to answer the question, which is poorly worded to begin with.)

You cannot accept this because you cannot accept that you just wasted the last few hours of your life attempting to answer a question that doesn't offer up enough information to be answerable. It's insufferable, really.
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>>43748276
Nope, answer is july 16th, read >>43748011
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>>43748232
Nope.

I see your explanation, and it is flawed.

If one boy knows the month, and one knows the day, there is no way either one of them can solve it without sharing the information.

Explain it again, maybe you have the magic answer, but to me its simply flawed.
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>>43748324
With the information each of them has, they can narrow down the possibilities of what the other one might have. By A saying that B cannot possibly know the answer, he rules out 2 months from B's list of options. From this, B can find the answer. The fact that B found the answer further narrows it down for A who gets the answer himself
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>>43748364
Explained here: >>43748011
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>>43748353
>>43748232
Yea OK I see now.
>>
>>43748346
if this is hard for you perhaps you are not as smart as you think

there is something called the dunning kruger effect by which dmb people overestimate their intelligence, and smart people underestimate, roughly in proportion to how stupid or dumb they are. dumber people place themselves higher than slightly dumb people.

this is why niggers always think they're smart.
>>
>>43748364
They share information. They share that they do not know, which means choices that were possible to immediately pick based on only half of the information are eliminated until a day is left that only appears in one month, since Bernard who knows only the day says as a matter of fact that he has determined the answer.
>>
>>43748346
No assumptions, just clean logic.

When you follow the wording, there is no other possible outcome than July 16.

>>43748364
>there is no way either one of them can solve it without sharing the information
But they are sharing information.

Albert is effectively telling Bernard it's not May or June.

Bernard in turn is effectively telling Albert it's not 14 (and indirectly that it's not 15 or 17 since they appear in May and June as well, which were already ruled out).
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>>43748456
Why would 14 be ruled out?
>>
>>43748456
if a black man cums in a white man's wife, if the white man is jerking off in the corner, and is 10 seconds from cumming, how long does it take him to cum when the black man makes the white man drink his nigger cum out of the white woman, and will the white man still have to pay reparations?
>>
>>43744056
OK let me try to explain the answer 1 more time.

Albert only knows the month, but he does know which days Bernard MAY have been told. Amongst those days, apparently there is no unique day (18 or 19) because Albert is able to conclude that Bernard also doesn't know, whichever day Cheryl may have told him. This leaves July and August.

So now Bernard - having deducted this - knows it's either July or August. He says he now knows the birthday, so it can't be the 14th since there were still two options left with that day.

So now for us, there are 3 options left: July 16th, August 15th and August 17th.

Back to Albert: he says he now also knows the birthday. Remember that Albert knows the month: the only unique month amongst those 3 answers left is July.

So there you have it: July 16th.
>>
>>43748504
Cause Bernard instantly knew the date when 2 months were eliminate hence it couldn't be a day which overlapped.
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>>43748504
Because if it had been 14, then Bernard still wouldn't know whether it was July or August, since July 14 and August 14 are on the table.

Bernard says he DOES know her birthday, so it can't be 14.
>>
>>43748504
Because if B has narrowed it down to July or August, if he had 14 as a day, he couldn't possibly figure out the answer, which contradicts the second line of dialogue
>>
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>>43744056
This isn't from P5, it's actually from the Math Olympiad for S3&4 students, and the answer from the answer key is wrong. The answer states that:

> May and June are eliminated, because they have two unique dates, 18 + 19.

Logically, that only eliminates those dates (as elements of their month sets), leaving behind 15,16,17 which are also elements of the other month sets. It doesn't eliminate the entire month sets of May and June. The answer says that this is supposed to make it obvious that the only two choices left are July and August, then the student is supposed to deduce from the Albert, Bernard, Albert sequence that this became obvious to Bernard, then to Albert. There is no way it can, because the premise was that 18 + 19 being unique dates eliminated the Month sets of May and June. When posed this question, people will make up elaborate assumptions about what must have happened to let Albert read Bernard's mind, when in reality, the person who wrote it was an idiot and shouldn't be writing questions for students.

> Garbage in, garbage out
>>
>>43748544
If I'm following this correctly, that would actually eliminate the third line of dialogue rather than the second. By the time of the second, if 17 were the correct answer Bernard would be able to select August but that would leave Albert unable because of 14. Since Albert knows, it can't be 14 and is therefore 16.
>>
>>43748439

The irony in your statement gives me an erection. You arrogant fools are greatly overstating your own intellectual prowess when you cannot understand simple concepts such as logical assumptions (and why, while useful, they cannot be used to reach factual, concrete conclusions.)

That's the meat of the issue for me here. You people insist that there's enough information in this problem to solve it, and yet there clearly is not given that assumptions need to be made in order to reach a conclusion.

Furthermore, I never proclaimed myself to be an intellectual. There's no need for such shameless boasting when my arguments and the tactics I employ within those arguments speak for me. The fact that you went out of your way to introduce the Dunning-Kruger Effect to this conversation goes to show that your mental maturity probably isn't as high as you think it is, considering I have been relatively polite in my own explanations as to why I think you're all fools for trying to solve the unsolvable.

Also, my beautiful wife, for whatever reason, wanted me to convey to you that she wishes you to shut the fuck up and die.
>>
>>43746156
Can someone tell if this is wrong or not?
>>
>>43748660
This website is for 18 and up only, you know.
>>
>>43748456

>just clean logic

But they are sharing information.

>Albert is effectively telling Bernard it's not May or June.

>No assumptions, just clean logic
>>
>>43748621

wrong, read my post >>43748524

the logic is sound, you can deduct the answer.
>>
May have a unique number: 19
June have a unique number: 18
They are therefor excluded because albert knows that bernard doesn't know.

The information at this point says that bernard would have a day that's either.
14,15,16, or 17.

Bernard says he did not know, but now he knows.
Meaning that before Albert excluded may or june, either of those months was a choice, which means that 14 isn't the possible day.
Options now is
>July 16
>August 15
>August 17
Albert says he knows, so the date have to be July 16 because there was no information that would've let him distinguish between 15th and 17th august.

tl;dr July 16th.
>>
>>43748621
>Logically, that only eliminates those dates (as elements of their month sets)
It does not. It eliminates the months in their entirety. If A was told either May or June, there is a non-zero possibility that B got a unique number, and therefore a non-zero possibility that he knows the answer. Hence, the statement in the first line of dialogue (That B does not know the answer) would be impossible.

>>43748643
>If I'm following this correctly, that would actually eliminate the third line of dialogue rather than the second
Nope. If we've ruled out May and June from A's first statement, and we say that B has the 14th, then B could not possibly state that he knows the answer (2nd line) as he'd be left with 2 possibilities: July 14 and August 14.
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>>43748696

An actual rebuttal would be nice, instead of the childish responses I have been receiving.
>>
>>43748695
wrong, read >>43748524
>>
>>43748747
Several people have explained it to you directly again and again and you keep responding with "NO YOU'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS".
>>
>>43748713
It's not an assumption that Albert is telling Bernard it's not May or June.

If it had been May or June, Albert could not have known that Bernard did not know.

Because if the birthday had been 19 (May) or 18 (June), Bernard would have known the month just by hearing the day.
>>
>>43748747

read this >>43748524
0 assumptions, only deduction
>>
>>43748802

Because ... they are making assumptions? Jesus Christ how can you not tell the difference between a fact and an assumption?

I'm done with you dolts. Enjoy arguing over a question with no answer.
>>
>>43748621
it's not wrong.

july is the only month with two doubled numbers. that's how he KNOWS B doesn't know.

>>43748660
this is literally how mathematical proofs work. you have known factors and you draw conclusions about what you can and cannot know based off of those factors.

I brought up dunning kruger because it's highly likely that you would have trouble with more rigorous mathematical proofs, if you think this problem is nonsense. but just because it's hard for YOU doesn't make it garbage.

again, niggers love to declare that reading and math is the white man's trick.

or, maybe niggers are just dumb.
>>
>>43748524
>Amongst those days, apparently there is no unique day (18 or 19) because Albert is able to conclude that Bernard also doesn't know, whichever day Cheryl may have told him. This leaves July and August.
Why are you making this assumption? Crossing off 18/19 is fine, but that doesn't lead to crossing off the entire month.
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>>43748867
There are no assumptions in the explanations we've been giving you. Things don't need to be stated directly for them to be conveyed between two people. There is a big difference between logically inferring something based on limited information, as we are doing here, and assuming.

Take my explanation >>43748011, and tell me where an assumption is being made.
>>
>>43748751
"This leaves July and August."
What about May 15th, May 16th and June 17th?
>>
>>43748903
Yes it does. See >>43748741

> It eliminates the months in their entirety. If A was told either May or June, there is a non-zero possibility that B got a unique number, and therefore a non-zero possibility that he knows the answer. Hence, the statement in the first line of dialogue (That B does not know the answer) would be impossible.
>>
>>43748903
It does, because Albert can only conclude that Bernard doesn't know if there is no single scenario possible in which Bernard DOES know. This is only true for the months july and august.
>>
>>43748228
>while at this point, Albert only knows the month
No I didn't.
there are two month left namely July and August, he can't find which one with a 100% certainty so he's lying or the test is crap or both.
>>
>>43748395
>they can narrow down the possibilities of what the other one might have. By A saying that B cannot possibly know the answer, he rules out 2 months from B's list of options

This is incorrect. Additional information would have to pass between them or be privy to them in order to narrow down the options. Just stating B can't know the answer doesn't narrow anything down for A, how has he come by this conclusion.
>>
>>43748903
July have no unique dates, so Albert can be 100% certain that Bernard does not know the full date.

Albert knows the date is either 14 or 16. So he also knows that bernard have the option of August or May.

Both of the persons in the problem knows more than the reader of the problem does at start.
>>
>>43748936

read >>43748955
>>
No one here is stupid. I'm more enraged with myself that I cannot seem to explain it clearly enough for everyone to get it.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

- Albert Einstein
>>
>>43748981
>Just stating B can't know the answer doesn't narrow anything down for A, how has he come by this conclusion.

Just stating B can't know the answer narrows it down for B - It tells him it cannot be a month in which he could immediately know the answer - It cannot be May or June.

B now has this piece of information, plus the day. He states that he has found the answer. This in turn tells A that is CANNOT be the 14th, as this is common to both remaining months. Since A's next statement is to say that he has also found the answer, the answer must be July 16th - If it was either of the two remaining days in August, A could not say with certainty what the answer is.
>>
>>43749068
Well, there was that one guy who declared the problem to have no solution and responded to all objectors that they were just not as smart as him. When his intelligence was questioned he made the completely absurd claim that he was right because he had a wife and she was attractive.

That guy is stupid.
>>
>>43748981
look at
>>43748981
>>43748981

christ how are you people so dumb

>>43749068
your aphorism doesn't change the set of facts ,that some people just don't have the mental capacity to solve this problem.

try explaining 2+2 to an autistic child. you can't. it's not because you don't understand addition well enough. it's because the kid has a genetically hampered ability to process information.
>>
>>43749085
Again, incorrect. B is given a date, we know and B knows its not the 18 or 19 since that would lead to an exact answer. If it's the 14 B knows it could be July or August, 15 could be May or August, 16 could be May or July, 17 could be June or August. All months are available to choose from, nothing is ruled out.
>>
>>43748924

>It's completely illogical (Freudian slip?)
>proceeds to explain how it's logical
>>
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Maybe this helps.
>>
>>43744371
>It cannot be May or June or else Albert would not know that Bernard didn't know.
I don't get it why would Bernard know about those months? and how does Albert know that Bernard doesn't know? What makes July special?
> It cannot be the 14th.
Why?
>>
>>43749155
At this point I'm actually not sure if people in this thread are trolling or just ignorant...
>>
>>43749232
B have the fucking day given from cheryl. What B doesn't know is the month.
Once A eliminates two months with his statement there's only one month that fits his day.
>>
>>43748407

So does it work like this?

Albert and Bernard both have the list.

Albert knows the month and Bernard knows the day.

This dialog is spoken out loud:

Albert: "I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is, but I know that Bernard does not know too." (This dialog rules out May and June, because Albert is signaling that the answer is not in one of the two months with a unique day (May 19, June 18), which would allow Bernard to solve it alone. He is effectively telling us onlookers, and Bernard, that it is not May or June.)

Bernard: "At first I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is, but I know now." (Bernard knows that the answer is on the 16th day because Cheryl told him initially. As onlookers we don't know this, but we can deduce it by what Bernard saying that he figured it out. From the remaining months from which to choose (July and August), he knows that the answer is July because it is the only one of the two that have 16 as a possibility. So he tells us onlookers and Albert that he has the answer, and now we do too.)

Albert: "Then I also know when Cheryl's birthday is." (Albert knows the month is July but not the day. But he has heard Bernard's previous dialog and he has made the same deduction we have.)
Also, the English is technically flawed, even though the logic isn't.

Albert and Bernard just become [BECAME]

... but I know that Bernard does not know too [EITHER].

At first I don't [DIDN'T] know when Cheryl's birthday is,
>>
>>43748741
Keep what each one can know separate the entire time. Pick one of the two men, assign a month and a date to either respectively, then walk through what each can know individually. Many of you are adding to the story to make it add up. That's why people are arriving at one of two answers: August 17 or July 16. The fact that people are conistently getting those two answers depending on how they make assumptions to clear up ambiguity in the story should tip you off that there's a problem.

Pretend Albert was told July. That means Albert can eliminate 3 months:
> May, Jun, Aug

And 4 dates:
> 15,17,18,19

Albert knows the choices are:

> Jul: 14,16

What does Bernard know? Let's pretend he knows it's 16.

June + August don't have a 16, so Bernards can choose from 2 months:
> May, July
And 4 dates:
> 14,15,16,19

Bernard knows his choices are:

>May: 16
>Jul: 16

This is where the question is ambiguous and falls apart. If you switch into your 3rd person "omniscience", you will commit the same fallacy as the person who wrote the question.

The sequence of events, as well as the answer key contain the obvious flaw:
> Albert tells everyone that he doesn't know the birthday, and Bernard already knows this.
> THEN Albert tells everyone he knows Bernard doesn't know.

How the fuck could Albert know that? He can't perform Bernard's reasoning, because Bernard is told a non-unique date.

> THAT tells Bernard what it is.

Nothing in the previous two matrices could tell Bernard anything. TO get any further, extra dialogue is required between the two men. There is nothing in either of their perspectives, imagining they are not reading each other's minds, that gives them a way to eliminate any further choices. The person who wrote the question had it in mind that they would arouve at a second round of choices, where May and June had been eliminated, leaving only July and August.
>>
>>43749232
A is the one that states that B cannot possible know the answer. The only way A could know this for a fact is if the month he is told is NOT May or June. As a result, him stating this tells B that the month is not May or June.

>>43749258
Oh boy, you really got me there. I must deeply subconsciously believe it's illogical and I just can't bring myself to face that fact.

You also didn't answer my question. Point out an assumption, dipshit.
>>
>>43749320

I've been wondering the same thing, honestly. So far all I've seen is intellectual dishonesty and ego stroking.
>>
>>43749351
Read this explanation >>43748011. I've gone through it step by step. There is absolutely no way this should need simplifying any further.
>>
>>43749330
And why does A eliminate two months. From the first statement we know that neither A nor B knows. A doesn't know because all months are open for him. B doesn't know because all the remaining dates cross 2 possible months. There is nothing for A to eliminate without further information passing between them.
>>
>>43749308
>why would Bernard know about those months?
Those months each have one day that does not appear in any other month: 19 (May) and 18 (June).

No other month has a 19 or 18 as a possibility.

So if Cheryl had told Bernard the date was 19 or 18, then Bernard would have positively known that her bday was either 19 May or 18 June.

Since Albert said Bernard COULD NOT know, the month he was told must not have been May or June.
>>
>>43749336
Yes, that is correct.
>>
>>43749359
It's funny how you agree with me yet insist that this problem cannot be solved.

Although I am a postgrad physicist, do not take my explanation on good authority but at least take the effort to go over it one more time.
>>
>>43749405
>why does A eliminate two months
Because C told him the month.
A looks at the dates availible for the month that he knows it is and realizes there's no unique identifier in it so therefor he knows that B cannot be certain of the date yet.
>>
>>43749320
they are just honestly stupid.

take this a step further, because this is a solid, logical proof, with only a few steps

and now try to understand that people support welfare unironically, or that people think iq isn't genetic.

this scares me sometimes.
>>
>>43749355

The assumptions are in how you are solving the problem. You are assuming Albert and Bernard each know only the day, and the other the month. The assumptions come in that the question is worded so poorly with so little information to go off of that one has to make assumptions (albeit logical assumptions) in order to reach a conclusion in regards to the date. The only way one can reach any sort of a conclusion is if they delude themselves into thinking they're intelligent enough as to be capable of knowing the unknown. There are, simply put, not enough variables made available to reach a logical conclusion.

That's it. Either you understand it, or you don't. Either way I've been laughing my ass off this whole time at the sheer stupidity of the people insisting their answer is the correct one.
>>
>>43749435

You are not a postgrad physicist.
>>
Lets assume that Albert was told the month was August. He looks at the dates and sees that there are no unique dates in that month. So he tells that Bernard does not know the answer.
Lets assume Bernard was told the date was 17th. He looks at the month , but there are two months with 17 in them - June and August, BUT since Albert hasn't told its June 17th (since number 18 would mean instant problem solution for Bernard and he knows that), that only leaves August 17th as a possible answer.
>>
>>43749518
>You are assuming Albert and Bernard each know only the day, and the other the month.
We're not assuming at all, that's what we're literally told in the question.
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