try to refute this theists without using fallacies. just try

>>140308971
Easy, our view of loving/kind is flawed. God being omnipotent knows what love and kindness is.

>>140309105
god allows evil to happen and does nothing about it
god is evil

>>140309183
Or you just dont know what evil really is

>>140308971
It's all outlined quite clearly in Christopher Langan's Cognitive-Theoretic Model if the Universe

Take a crack at it if you're not too much of a brainlet

http://main.megafoundation.org/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf

>>140309221
i know full well what evil is
but does your god?
if he does why doesn't he do something about it?

>>140308971
Prove to me that without metaphysics, all is not purposeless nihilism, and truth doesn't matter any more than anything else. Only the individual and his arbitrary subjective preferences are left to matter. Kys, fucking degenerate.

>>140309324
>i know full well what evil is
thats just your opinion, you can never prove what acts are evil and which ones aren't

>but does your god?
if god is omnipotent then by definition god knows what is evil and what isnt

>>140309324
>if he does why doesn't he do something about it?
prove it is unloving or unkind to allow evil to exist

>>140309622
>>140309663
mental gymnastics from the brainlets
asking theists to defend their evil god is like asking a dog about quantum psychics

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>>140308971
Psst...
You are like a kid
Watch this, boy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

>>140308971
Because we limit god by saying he's all good.
God is both as god would have to be in order to be infinite. Yin and Yang, light and darkness.

Universe destroys in order to create.

Evil is subjective and changes definition based on context.

Every wave has a trough. We have a definition of good and therefore we have a definition of evil. You can't have one without the other.

God is universal when ants kill each other is that evil to you? Or simply something that doesn't even register?

>>140309867
so you have no real response? you can prove which acts are evil but just choose not too? what a shame, if you published your work proving something to be evil you would be the first in the world to do so

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>>140308971
False dichotomy.

Evil is a punishment we bring on ourselves. When human beings stray from God's path, we invite destruction. The lazy farmer starves not because of some outside "evil" force, but because he reaps what he sows.

>>140310211
Is George RR Martin evil because people in the book he writes die Or have evil things happen to them?

>>140310270
genocide is evil your god lets it happen
murder is evil your god lets it happen
rape is evil your god lets it happen

this list can go on forever
everyone knows the difference between evil and good

>>140310434
false equivalence

>>140308971
We know from quantum mechanics that characteristics of particles do not exist until they are observed. This is something fundamental to the particle that God cannot know.

Even God *cannot* know this.

Therefore God is not omniscient.

>>140310343
so when a child gets raped
did she bring it on herself?

>>140310451
>genocide is evil your god lets it happen
>murder is evil your god lets it happen
>rape is evil your god lets it happen

prove it and become the most renowned philosopher in history

>everyone knows the difference between evil and good
only brainlets who have never opened a philosophy book in their life think that, is that what you are? a brainlet?

>>140308971
Free will

>>140310618
stop moving the goalposts and refuse my posts if your able to that is

>>140308971
The truth is that god does not operate on mortal ethical/moral terms. God is not human.

>>140310544
Elaborate.
George RR martin is omnipotent in relation to his creations and yet he still allows bad things to happen. He is not evil though. It simply depends on how you see god, as an author writing the universe. Or a programmer or a gardener or a king?

>>140310689
what goalposts were moved?

I stated from the start you dont know what love/kindness is and that you dont know what evil is

you have yet to prove one evil act, looks like your memory is abysmal

>>140308971
>he thinks he can debunk god with human logic
God is beyond what our tiny, mortal brains can comprehend.

>>140308971
If belief in an untruth makes me more satisfied, helps me attain my ends, why should I worry about truth? Why is anyone obliged to care about truth, if they get more satisfaction by not doing so?

>>140310788
therefore he is evil
>>140310801
martin writes fiction but god (if he exists) allows evil to happen for no reason whatsoever
>>140310805
you still can't refute the original picture
>>140310863
god is evil

>>140309290
tl;dr?

>>140311103
already did, in the first post.

It shows if god does not prevent evil he is not good/. I said you dont even know what good or evil is.

now you could try to disagree and prove what is evil or good but we all know you can't, just like every other philosopher out there, no shame in it. The only shame is that you are too stupid to realize it

>>140308971
>then God is evil
does it even matter at that point?

If God exists you're on his side no matter what.
He's supreme being of the damn universe and you suddenly care that he's "evil"???
Meanwhile you support human politicians are jut shittier versions of evil?

fuck off op.
Evil is subjective anyway. Everyone has a different opinion on what evil is.

>>140311385
If no human even knows what evil/good is, why leave them with the information of the all-loving god in the first place?

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>>140310612
The evil of someone like a child rapist is caused not by the individual, but by the community that allows such a person to live. It is also caused by the rapists parents who sinned by not raising him right, and the community who did not step in and correct them.

The parents of the child can also be held partially accountable, depending on the circumstance (If they did not reasonably protect the child).

>>140311385
good goy keep believing in (((theism)))

>>140311566
what am I, God?

What is evil? Where did this saying come from anyway?

>>140311484
he knowing allows suffering to happen when he could easily stop it

>>140311657
Looks like I have defeated you

Freewill equals evil.

>>140311572
god doesn't care
he created a reality tv show to watch to laugh at
he is without a doubt evil

>>140308971
Atheists cannot claim evil exists, so they cannot use this argument.

If God does not exist, evil does not exist because it is just a moral judgment, and moral is just a social construction.

>>140311753
you still haven't refuted the picture
theists never can refute it
they know it's true
checkmate

Don't start this argument. You can't have rational conversations with theists because it always boils down to "You don't understand, just have blind faith." The Old Testament is filled with contradictions and when brought up theists just reply "That's not the true meaning, you just don't understand the way God meant it. Just have blind faith." It's not worth the time or effort to discuss religion when there is no empirical evidence to support it.

>>140310596
What if God is the particle, wouldn't he know

>>140310612
hmmm, is that a strawman fallacy coming from the person who said no fallacies?

>>140311722
>suffering is bad

what a pleb you are

>>140312051
that's true
i really pity them

>>140311983
already refuted and explained here >>140311385
you have no response other than jew words

evil is born from action.

a universe without evil is a universe without free will.

God made us in his image. God primarily believes in the power of Choice. If God intervenes, he interrupts free choice. GOd intervenes upon the time where the damage to choice is minimized or he himself ironically has run out of choices.

Choice is the most powerful thing in the universe

God can prevent evil, he knows about the evil, he wants to prevent evil, but the reason evil exists is because of free will. Man has to be allowed the opportunity to rebel against his creator, if only to see the price of it.

>b-but god would know what we would do if we were tested
You're thinking in such a 2 dimensional way. Think of time as a branching series of paths that branch infinitely outward towards a never-ending series of conclusions. God is aware of all of them, but he only influences it to the extent of his plan, which is to save mankind from satan. Everything else he leaves to us. Whether we become evil or good, that's a choice we must make on our own. If we let him make it, can we truly say that we had free will?

I like to consider Jehovah (the god of the hebrews) to be much more merciful than many religions paint him out to be. I don't believe in a burning hellfire where people get tortured for not being obedient, because that undermines free will. It then becomes emotional and physical blackmail, wherein you're threatened into following his way of life, or you burn forever and suffer. What kind of loving god would do that?

>>140308971
Real Epicureans beat Hume's strawman Epicurean.
>“[O]ne must have a strength of mind which fears neither death nor pain, for in death there is no sensation, and pain is either long-lasting but slight, or intense but brief. Thus intense pain is moderated by its short duration, and chronic pain by its lesser force.

>>140312077
No.

Also, he is not.

>>140312192
Could God have created a universe with free-will but without evil? no?
Then God is not all powerful

>>140312222
free will and omniscience can't exist together. If God knows everything he will know every choice you make before you make it

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>>140312084
>>140312077
>>140312108
>>140312429
>>140312294
>>140312212
>>140312192
refute this godfags

This bullshit is literally explained in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible. We were kicked out of paradise. /thread faggot niggers

>>140308971

Can't refute logic. Only faggots believe in magical sky fairies.

>>140312544
>calling people faggots
>magic sky fairies
>kekistani flag
Kys fat slob

>>140312512
we didn't do anything so why do we suffer?
should someone else suffer for an act that someone else did?

>>140312544
exactly
godcucks are a sad existence

>>140312668
Apparently yes, idiot. When you become able to create a universe let me know how things should go.

>>140308971
Defeater: God has sufficient reason to allow the evil to subsist

>>140308971
Humans have free will and are unbound from God. You cannot apply something as shallow as good and evil to God.

>>140312668
>Why doesn't god adhere to my morality!!!

quit being a little bitch

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>>140309221
>>140309324

The entire paradox hinges on the belief that "Evil" is objectively identifiable. Is Murder "Evil"?

>>140309663
the leaf gets it.

There is no such thing as an "Objective Evil". The only area of life that can even remotely be considered "Objective" is mathematics, and even at the Quantum level, Objectivity begins to merge with subjectivity.

That being said, the ability to convince a person that something "other" is "evil" just playing on their instinct to fear what is outside the perimeter of their own mind. Even to ability to shape a mind to perceive evil does not make the perceived subject evil.


This can be applied to the modern era: Nationalists vs the muzzies. Neither side is correct; neither side is wrong. All that matters is you have a conviction and fight for it.

>>140312400
77 Trumps that 00. Kek finds your abstract thinking lacking. Of course God could be nothing and everything, he's God anything is possible. Is self awareness considered to be observation, honest question.

>>140312495
Refute this >>140312294
Rather than shifting to a strawman argument.

>>140308971
I am a theist. Not religious, just theist.
I believe that 'God' is not 'good' as we think of it. I believe that if there is a singular God, then he does things rather for the greater good as opposed to the emotion-based good that people prefer.
The old testament writes God in this way; he is painted as a wise, powerful, and just along with being vengeful, unpredictable and selfish. However, these traits are all for the betterment of the world as a whole.
This is more realistic than the "Jews are the chosen people and Jesus says love thy neighbor so refugees welcome pls" version of God preached by the pussy ass new testament.

>>140308971
Easy, just don't make the dumb mistake the Abrahamic religions made of being the 'but I had a forcefield so it doesn't count' kid on the playground

Nearly every other previous religion said the Gods were ambivalent, capricious, or just plain assholes, and shit just happened. Then the Abrahamics came along and had to say, 'Yeah...well, my god has INFINITE LOVE, INFINITE POWER, IS EVERYWHERE, CAN DO ANYTHING EVER AND HIS DAD WORKS AT NINTENDO' and then wrote themselves into a corner

God dose that have to be perfect to be worthy of worship - if there's some incredibly super being that created the Universe, that by no means requires them to be infallible. They fucked up a bit is all

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>>140311841
Nice argument
>>140312423
God cannot do things contrary to his own will, which is namely orderly and consistent. He did invent such things, and model a universe around them.

It's like the pointless "can God create a rock so big he cannot move it?" paradox.

Can God create a universe where everyone is free to do whatever they want but in which no one ever suffers the consequences of their actions or does anything mean?

>>140312495
>call out dumb ass for using fallacies, despite specifically asking people not to
>uses false equivalence to "prove me wrong"

>>140311103
Why do you assume all this isn't fiction to god?

>>140309105
This is such stupid fucking logic since it defines god as good. If god helps pedophiles molest children than pedophilia is apparently a good thing since god supports it.

OP's chart infers too much upon what the nature of evil is. If god were truly omnipotent/omniscient and he allows what our definition of "evil" is to exist then your pic is correct in saying either A. God is evil, B. God is not all powerful. However, a C option of "evil is not necessarily what we define it as" also exists. In Buddhism, for instance, suffering is key to human existence and overcoming it is key to expanding upon our understanding of the world and going forward as a species. Eliminating evil and therefore suffering would then eliminate our ability to grow as a species, and we would end up as stagnant apes lounging around in Eden eating fruit and fucking all day. Beyond that, you also have the fallacious argument that "we just don't know about His will and why he's doing", which is a cop-out explanation but is also one that Epicurus didn't really address.

Not even a Christfag but the epicurean paradox was debunked centuries ago

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"Don’t be turned away from Islam by the terrible situation of the Muslims today, for our rulers in general abandoned Islam many decades ago, but our forefathers were the leaders and pioneers of the world for many centuries, when they held firmly to Islam."

>>140311657
Win any argument on pol by saying "(((good goy))) you must be a (((real shabbos goy))) if you believe [thing], it's the jews! And anyone who says otherwise will get swarmed by hordes of pollacks saying you're a goyimite!"

Fuck, we get it. The Jews faked the rollercoast and did 7/11.

>>140313057
this

>>140313057
A God that is omniscient would by definition know what is good and evil, if it even exists

>If god helps pedophiles molest children than pedophilia is apparently a good thing since god supports it.
Helps or allows it to happen?

>>140313037
If we are just characters in a book written by god than god is clearly a teenage boy.
>I am going to have half the people in the world worship me as a god
>And I'm going to get some hot girl pregnant and she's gonna give birth to my half-human half-god son who is the messiah and a descendant of the best Jewish king ever
>And my rival is going to be one of my followers who can't disobey me but he disobeyed me and still opposes me even though I am all powerful
Would you worship this crappy an author?

>>140313267
hahah did he think of something you weren't able to? That's why you ran out of things to say earlier, right?

You said you knew what things were evil, why did you never get around to proving any of them? Did you lie? or just realize how stupid you were?

>>140313338
No one takes ancaps seriously, kys plox

Wanting a good god is like wanting heroin without side effects

>>140308971

Because the God who actively created the world is not perfect and the God who created the soul of humanity is perfect, all knowing, all powerful but passive because the material world means nothing to him and only to satan.

Welcome to Gnosticism, where you get to think beyond the material world. Fear not those who destroys the flesh that cannot destroy the spirit.

>>140308971
A thought became aware of itself.
It explored itself and its surroundings, and eventually decided to split itself into pieces to be able to experience infinitely more at all times.
It created experiences for its other selves, but it was boring because it and they always knew what was and what would be.
It invented free will, but still the other selves were complacent because they knew the reality of their origin.
So the Source created a veil.
This veil kept its selves from realizing and remembering where they came from.
They had complete freedom of choice to do whatever they wished.
The Source is always a part of its pieces, and experiences every bit of itself at all times, but only intervenes when truly called upon because of free will.
The only opportunity for growth of the Source is to experience separation and then reunification.
This should answer all of your image's questions.

>>140308971
The existence of evil allows for greater overall good. A universe without evil is paradoxically less good than one with evil, because to be truly good requires the option of also being evil.

Easy.

>>140313301
>Helps or allows it to happen?
Creates is honestly closest since he created the situation that allows them to arise just like he creates schizophrenics and psychopaths. After all god created a system where humans can have such flawed genomes that some inevitably develop autism, schizophrenia, psychopathy, etc.

>>140313338
godcucks can't refute this
god must be a downie

>>140308971
Because it has nothing to do with us directly, God has put Satan on trial and we are a part of Gods evidence to show Satan that the majority of a flawed creation with free will and sin natures will choose faith in Christs salvation over damnation, thus proving Satan's arrogance in his defiance of God.

>>140313437
>Nobody takes ancaps seriously
Says the man who literally interprets genesis

>>140313589
>>140312982
?

>>140312668
God is good, by definition he is good and infinitely good. It is not within his nature to create or endorse evil things. Evil is outside of his domain, it is outside of creation. Evil is the absence of creation. Evil is the lack of good. Can anything be Evil? No. There is only evil actions done by people who willfully turn away from their humanity and choose to do the unnatural. The unnatural is the ungodly. The notion of god is much more complex than you may initially believe. You should read Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica.

It's entertainment or a simulation for god. There is some purpose we just don't know it. If it isn't just like some SIMs or something I'd guess our being creates energy or some thing necessary who knows but evil and goodness certainly do exist the question is however. Is this a test to see if we will do evil and later be punished for it or not. My guess is this is some kind of test depending on how your thought process works. If you can justify it internally then so can god but if you can't and you still murder etc then you'll suffer. Survival of the fittest is this worlds motto.

>>140313701
He is mentally 13 and just found out about atheism

easy. where does evil exist?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

this a bullshit flowchart.

>>140308971
Flawed argumentation because we don't know real good or real evil

>>140308971

ebin

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Something you considere evil may be good to others.

Stop being a self centring fagget

>>140313763
lol that's why humans naturally cry kick punch greed etc all through childhood. You realize genes that were survivalists at any means necessary survived not "good" genes. Not to mention women who lack fucking conscious biologically and will murder there husbands secretly when they are of longer no use. You're a cuck.

>>140313777
And avoids any post he can't refute like the plague kek

>>140313777
still struggling to refute my claims
it's fine i know godcucks have lower iqs

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>>140308971
fedora virgins BTFO

>>140312982
This. Religion isn't philosophically flawed unless he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. Take away any of those and religion makes philosophical sense.
>Why is there evil?
God can't stop evil
God doesn't know about evil
God is a dick

god is beyond paltry human reasoning and epicurean thought on the matter in its insignificant notions of what we 'understand' to be these higher concepts falls flat on its face in attempts to explain anything, as most defeatist worldviews do. pointless exercises in thought that lash out against abject reality as though interrogating things in such a black and white light makes you the slightest bit enlightened

god can be surmised to be a judging and violent entity one way or the other, though. nature, in its constant flux, knows not peace for any appreciable span of time on appropriate scales and thus it's only suitable that hominids exist in perpetual suffering and strife if only to justify their lives which often appear to exist without much meaning at all.

>>140308971
>Human morality projected onto an Orange/Blue being.

>>140314010
You haven't made any claims since you were mentally conquered by me

>>140313777
7's confirm OP is underage and a faggot
Gg ez

>>140313878
Catholosism is mexican nazism

If there was nothing you perceived as evil, then you wouldn't be able to perceive good.
God created man for the Earth and gave them the power to choose good or evil, the fact they choose evil does not reflect on their creator who chose to give them the choice.

At the root of the epicurean psychobabble is the notion that free will is inherently evil, which of course is false.

>>140313781
worldwide
>>140313809
answer my claim or admit defeat
>>140313878
refute the picture
>>140313973
godcucks cant refute my posts

>>140314010
Yet still avoiding my post

Take a little longer I'll wait

>>140313620
Yes, I do, and you'll learn I'm right around the same time you learn how fucking retarded ancap is, you useless undoubtedly fat scumball machine

>>140313960
That's why we call people who do evil things evil people. Humans are social animals by nature, social animals form pacts and work together, they do not kill each other unless they must defend themselves. Someone who is unnecessarily violent is mentally unwell and is treated as such. Also notice your previous statement. "women who lack conscious", you said it yourself, someone can only do evil if they lack conscious, i.e, they are mentally unwell.

>>140314022
prove what's evil first

>>140314010
The real Epicurus already refuted that so called proof with a much more rational, objective and nuanced view of pleasure and suffering.
http://classics.mit.edu/Epicurus/menoec.html

>>140314205
>Yes, I do
Ahahahahahahahahaha oh christ my sides.

stop arguing over the semantics of evil and refute my posts

>>140314173
>God gave man the power to choose good or evil
are you telling me God is Lucifer?
I read the book and Jesus didn't want man to eat the good evil apples

>>140314286
>doesn't believe in God at all
>thinks laughing at taking genesis literally means anything
>is ancap
Have you kys yet?

the god that christians worship is actually lucifer
christianity was created by satan

>>140308971
Evil presupposes a standard
God's greatest gift is free will
To choose good is favorable to God
To choose evil is unfavorable to God
God allows/makes evil in order for us to choose good

Shit happens, how we deal with it is what matters. The 'evil' of said shit is the test. Let evil define you and you lose free will. Good is always the harder choice by default.

>>140308971
You're a bloody moron.

Free will/Fallen angels/There is a heaven

>>140308971
There's only one alternative to where god can be
>all powerful
>all good
>all knowing
And that's that our concept of good and evil is wrong. That what we have, universe and everything happening in it is his idea of perfect. Basically that we are living in this gods version of heaven.

Obviously this isn't judeo-christian thinking, but it does fill all three requirements. There is no other alternative where all three conditions can be filled (which also doesn't rule out the possibility of "god(s)" but that it/they don't fulfill all three conditions)

>>140308971

This answer will be overlooked because it doesn't give you what you want, but it's the truest answer you can be given here.

The assumption of the supernatural itself implies that ideas exist which are beyond the comprehension of the human mind. For example, the human mind cannot comprehend infinity or eternity.

Yet, it is possible to exist outside of time. Time is not merely a series of events. It is a nexus, and something we are confined to. It is impossible for us to comprehend what it would be like to live in the realm of eternity because are confined by this physical world.

If this is something we can't even comprehend, then how can we comprehend the true reason why God chose to make things the way they are?

>>140314219
Harming people. Your whole argument is based around the concept of god defining evil and claiming we cannot know what god considers evil which is retarded since it makes the word useless.

Case and point. God allows rapists, ergo god doesn't find rape evil, ergo it is okay for me to rape your mum. Go on prove that me shoving my dick inside your mum's ass is wrong.

>>140314324
if you're making the claim that god is evil then shouldn't you know what evil is first?

>>140314181
vague (incorrect)

try again.

>>140314382
>Has no arguments
>Comments about a flag
Go on show me some reliable sources that show that the literal genesis interpretation is valid.

>>140308971
Free will mofo.

>>140314490
>harming people is evil
Ancaps and fedoratheists eviscerate themselves ITT

>>140314173
Yes. Choice is imperative.

An example is if you give two friends a loan. Friend A returns the money willingly, on time. Friend B requires a court order to repay the loan, then does so. In both cases the friends return the money, are they both good? No, because Friend A had the OPTION of NOT returning the money, but did so anyway. Friend B was FORCED to return the money so his action is meaningless. He couldn't have done otherwise even if he wanted to, so the gesture is completely meaningless.

This illustrates that it's not the act itself which is good, it's the act when you have the option of not performing the act. Free will is important. An ATM is not 'good' because it dispenses my money, it was programmed to do so, it had no choice. A world without the choice to do evil is completely meaningless. Oh everyone does good deeds, great, but they only do that because they literally cannot do otherwise. It's an empty, meaningless world where people are automatons.

>>140314490
You consider your statement proof that harming people is evil? You may be just as retarded as the OP.

>>140314572
I already posted my arguments idiot now I'm just laughing at you
>reliable sources
Yeah let me go consult my buddy who was there when humans were created LOL being ancap must be hard

>>140308971
Free will. When will you idiots learn that this life is a test. Tests are hard, they have problems, and you don't get the reward until you've passed.

Are there difficult questions on tests?
Does the teacher want you to succeed?
Can the teacher give you the answers?
If she doesn't then she must be bad.

You're the equivalent of the 80 iq kid being pissed at the teacher, because you are to stupid to graduate:

>then why didn't he?
that's the great mystery you find out in the afterlife if you're lucky enough to get to heaven

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>>140308971
how can you truly have free will if you cannot choose to be evil, boom there you go bye bye your logic sucks.

>>140314414
prove it then , the burder of proof falls on the one making the claim
>>140314580
free will doesn't mean god just watches as evil takes place. if he has the power to stop why doesn't he

>>140308971
free will

>>140312051
The OT doesn't have contradictions. Brainlets just don't understand mutual exclusivity.

>>140314794
>evil is happening!
>I don't know what's evil

That's how retarded you are

free will isn't an answer godcucks
talk about low intelligence

>>140308971
Why do you assume that God is all good? God is both good and evil. Saying otherwise would be saying that God lacks something that we have.

>>140314218
All women lack this conscious. But I'd argue humans are naturally more evil than good and could give you many examples. Only through the Ten Commandments did we get out of killing each other it depends how we are brain washed. But naturally as children we all would take toys. Pick on eachother etc etc etc.

>>140314912
why do you think it's not?

>>140314673
You didn't post any argument except "lol we were kicked out of a garden so its okay for god to fuck us over."

>>140314665
I consider my statement proof that you need to actually define morality in order to use it in an argument as opposed to saying "its whatever god thinks is good but we can't know what he thinks is good." Your logic is akin to subjective morality without even the backing of the golden rule. After all if something evil can be done than god allowed it meaning he must be cool with it.

>>140314912
Except it is. Creating a world with good without evil is a logical paradox, it's an impossibility.

>>140314912
It is though... You don't get to write the rules idiot

What if we are thought in God's minds. So we live and become reality as god calls the knowledge of what we would do if we were tested in his mind. We are just a simulation of god's train of thought.

>>140314794

why is it that every time >>140314909 asks you what evil is, you avoid the question?

>>140314909
i started this thread an hour ago and you still haven't proven me wrong
just accept the fact that you and your shitty ideology have been beat

>>140314794
The whole point of free will is that everything just happens on its own without any sort of intervention by a divine being.

>>140314960
Because free will doesn't make you be born with autism or anti-social personality disorder.

>>140314964
Except that answers the question you insufferable retard faggot lmfao

>>140314821
exactly, the free will statment defeats this paradox.. even though I'm an atheist.

>>140309663
>thats just your opinion, you can never prove what acts are evil and which ones aren't
Fine, I guess we should all bend over to the god who knows it all, and thinks that raping children, murdering people and starving people to death is not evil.

Let's all bend over for that beautiful god of yours.

>muh free will
there is no good definition of free will - only its vagueness as a concept allows it to be used as a reply to this
>>140314687
were the 80% of the people historically who died before age 5 thoroughly tested?

ITT: underage fedora and an ancap circlejerk against Christianity while ignoring other posters who aren't even specifically talking about Abrahamic gods

>>140308971
God gives man free will, he had/has the authority to tell us in the scripture what his will is, but God does not make mistakes and arbitrarily shy away from what he told us. Evil is because of man's will and God does not meddle with our will because he will show us in our next life what we will reap from our will. God offers us eternal paradise in the end for following his Word, why shouldn't he allow us to test our free will in an evil and imperfect world? God may know what's going to happen, but we do not and we have to experience what are free choices are going to be.

>>140314914
god is evil and nothing else

>>140315028
well you choose what to do with those things

>>140315028
Autism is 'evil' now?

>>140315042
No it doesn't. Harming the descendants of an individual for the crimes of an individual is immoral. How would you feel if someone beat the shit out of you because your mum is a slut or your dad is a cuck?

Not religious, but this is probably one of the weakest and most idiotic criticisms of religion I've ever encountered. Can you imagine what sort of world this would be without the contraries, good and evil? Without the one the other is impossible. What sort of good could possibly occur in a world where nothing bad can happen? That would almost definitely be a world without love, art, personal growth, etc. Human living would be trivial and pointless.

>>140315110
oh, do you know what evil is now?

>>140315173
Sorry but the universe doesn't operate on the parameters of what you think is and isn't like, totally cool and not violating the NAP you useless troglodyte

>>140308971
Easy. The start point is a statement and only flows to one follow up. If it started with "does evil exist?" It'd be different because evil is relative.

>>140314832
>The Bible specifically states Noah's family was the only one to survive the flood
>We have literal millions of pieces of evidence that supports multiple different cultures of multiple different people in multiple different parts of the world that lives through the time of the flood
>Hurrrrr it wasnt a reel flud it jst a metaphor bro! U dnt understand god dnt oppress muh reelidjun.
Fuck off you stupid cunt. The Bible is bullshit. In fact literally in Genesis 4:20 it, states how we are all descendents of Cain. In the book of Genesis, it says everyone but Noah died out, then turns right around and says we're all descendents of Cain. Your book is a joke, and it was written by multiple different people at multiple points in time, and Christians are too stupid to keep their fairy tail straight, so they fucked it up right there in the very fucking beginning.

>>140315110
If God was just evil, then there would be no good in this world. Because God wouldn't know how to create it.

>>140314964
>I consider my statement proof that you need to actually define morality in order to use it in an argument as opposed to saying "its whatever god thinks is good but we can't know what he thinks is good."
Except you stated "harming others" giving no proof of why it's evil. But yes, OP should define what is morality at the start, something he clearly is incapable of

>Your logic is akin to subjective morality without even the backing of the golden rule. After all if something evil can be done than god allowed it meaning he must be cool with it.
Why would I require the golden rule? You believe that to be an objective measure of morality? Like every other moral philosophy it isn't proven, you can pick and choose any one you want it is basically just as valid. So if you or OP want to claim God allows some evil to exist then go ahead and give an example with some proof of how it is evil

>>140308971
God is not all loving. It's pretty obvious if you just read the bible

>>140315110
what's evil to you?

>>140308971
>if god could create a universe with free will but without evil then why didn't he, if he can't he is not all powerful
Thats like saying could god create an unbreakable object, if so, he could not break it and is not all powerful

stop being a child

>>140315113
Except not really. Its like having a race where the losers are executed but some people have their feet encased in cement. Besides it not like god rewards people for overcoming adversity, a psychologically healthy person born to wealthy, loving Christian parents goes to the same heaven as a psychopath born to an abusive single mother living in poverty in the middle of Afghanistan even though the latter person had to overcome much more to become a pious Christian.

>>140308971
God can save you from evil, but God gave you free choice. It's up to you who will you turn to.

Your arguments are like
"if sport is healthy why are there injuries?"

>>140314930
I wouldn't agree with you that women lack consciousness, they are clearly capable of expressing love and knowing right from wrong. Also, do you believe that before the Ten Commandments humanity was just a dark and evil mess? clearly not. There were civilizations before judeo-christianity. China. India. Egypt. They all were able to achieve the knowledge that killing and stealing is bad, there is property, and someone else's life is not yours to take, it is against our nature. When the Jews and the Christians came along, they gave a face to the notion of goodness, they called him "God", infinite goodness and love, the true perfect nature of a human being. Through this the philosophy of good and evil was extrapolated upon and named Christianity.

>>140315173
Here's a better analogy:
An illegal immigrant drives drunk into a crowd of people
The government deports him
He has children in Mexico
They grow up to realize Mexico is terrible
Find out they could have lived in USA if ancestor didn't fuck up
>WAH WAH USA IS DUMB AND EVIL FUCK THEM WHY AM I PUNISHED FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S CRIME
You're a retard

>>140315256
Yes clearly it works on the foggy and often contradictory rules in a book written by dozens of authors narrating events decades after they happened.

>>140308971
Wow you're retarded.
Just because God doesn't stop "evil" doesn't make him any less of a God. In fact to anthroposize God's morality to the extent where if it does not conform to our own intuition of right or wrong, we outright refuse his existence by extension of inferring his lack of "goodness". This is actually a fallacy and anyone who has studied philosophy recognizes epicurius' soohistry.

>>140315173
Cool opinion, why try to state it like fact?

>>140315255
of course
>>140315303
this. the godcucks can never refute this post
>>140315318
god allows evil to take place when he could easily stop it from happening
>>140315330
the bible is fiction
>>140315427
why should people suffer? especially children
>>140315530
i'm saying why he doesn't do something about evil
when he apparently has infinite power

>>140310863
>God is beyond what our tiny, mortal brains can comprehend.
The only thing god is beyond of is tiny brainlet like yours.

Anyone with the smallest common sense would know how retarded it is to believe in a god.

No different than believing in tooth fairies, trolls or any other magical creatures.

Prove your claim of god being real or hit the door faggot.

>>140315582
>of course
well since you claim to know what evil is, prove it?

>>140315319
>You believe that to be an objective measure of morality?
Never claimed it was but it is a good basis for a moral code that allows for a stable society. Don't steal because you wouldn't like it if someone stole from you
Don't murder because you wouldn't like it if someone murdered you
Don't rape because you wouldn't like it if someone raped you

>>140315392
>Besides it not like god rewards people for overcoming adversit
that's precisely what he does, Jesus said

Much will be demanded from everyone who has been given much, and from the one who has been entrusted with much, even more will be asked.

>>140315510
There are no contradictions, pls stop trying to act like you know anything about the Bible when you clearly haven't even read the first chapter of the first book you retarded faggot

>>140308971

>But destroying satan is also evil

>>140315256
Hahahah stop hurting his brain, it's a violation of the NAP!

>>140315611
this.
godcucks are brainlets
they have an iq under 50

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>>140308971
>God is not powerful?
How do you reach that? if God doesn't create or do something that doesn't mean he isn't powerful just that this world is what it is with balance and he cannot contravene that law as it would contradict his commitment to his own law of nature.

If I create a video game, i can change the code, but that would be wholly unfair on the player.
Nor would that game have any meaning if everything i ever did in that game was without jeopardy.

Pretty simple.
God Knows everything for him to be considered God.
We have freedom to be evil or not be evil.
Ergo, our souls are rewarded punished based on our deeds.

The necessity of evil is to provide balance.
Joy can only feel good if you know what pain is.

>>140315669
Cool, so it's irrelevant.

>>140308971

This is called the problem of evil. The answer is free will. You're not smart.

>>140315446
The difference is that the illegal immigrant was never a legal resident. Even then god actively created a shitty world for the descendants of Adam and Eve to grow up in. A better example
>A man commits a crime
>He is sent to a mixed sex prison
>He has children in this mixed sex prison
>His children are also expected to live their entire lives in prison

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>>140308971

There is no good or evil. Only nature.

>>140312787
Hence
>Only God can Judge me

That is, due to subjectivity of Evil generally, only a supreme being inhabiting the role of God could possibly account for deed, intent, circumstance and the situation.

>>140315817
god knows everything that will ever happen
so why the need for a test in the first place?

>>140315537
Because its far more commonly accepted than the moral code of "we can do anything because god didn't stop us." Go on, give me a list of things that you consider objectively right and wrong.

>>140315669
so your definition of good, is essentially "don't do things that you wouldn't want done to you"? so why is that the true definition of morality?

>>140315901
Damn nature
You are scary

>>140308971

God is not purely good. He is just.

>God
>allowing true free will

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234

>>140315943
it's a test for you, not for God
you dont know what's going to happen

>>140313243
topkek for noreplies.

"will pol admit their confirmation bias or are they still massive faggots? To be continued on the next episode of; 'this thread has gone to shit'"

>>140308971
Because we are not omniscient, we can't see what the omnipotent's plans are. Basically, God is playing 20 dimension underwater go and we're racing rocks

>>140315951
Which Philosopher popularized this?

>>140309867
Retard.
>refute this theists
>gets refuted
>lel mental gymnastics durrr
You realise that thinkers far more intelligent and learned than you or I ever will be have been arguing about this and guess what? No answer has been found. No "aha!" has happened.

How solid you seem to think the epicurean paradox is speaks both to your average IQ and to your lack of training in analytical philosophy.

>>140308971

It's quite simple actually. Good/evil is a dichotomy created by humans. God is thought to be a delivered from evil, but this is not true and you'd know this if you studied theology.

>>140308971
God can erase evil, he just doesn't feel like it

>>140315951
It is true because it is commonly accepted. That's all that matters. If most people looked at that general concept and thought "yeah, nah that's bullshit" than it wouldn't be true, but alas most of society accepts that general concept as a good basis for a moral code which is why even children are raised to consider the feelings of others when doing something.

>>140316101
apparently the philosopher i replied to

>>140316059
a test for what
entrance to god's secret garden orgy in the afterlife?
i don't want no part in that

>>140316059
>God creates the whole universe
>Everything and anything that will ever be
>The mightiest creature of all
>Wasted 6 god days (what ever that is)
>To test me

Your god sounds like a flamboyant faggot

>>140315948
>Because its far more commonly accepted than the moral code of "we can do anything because god didn't stop us."

That's not what determines if something is a fact. It just makes you appear a little more retarded.

I never claimed an objective morality

>>140315805
ALL-powerful, idiot. And most of Christianity does not believe in predestination or divine determinism, unlike Islam.

>>140316209
up to you man, it's your afterlife anyway

>>140316217
>canadian
>a faggot
checks out

>>140316102
there has been over 200 posts in this thread
yet no one has refuted me yet
i didn't expect much and i'm still disappointed

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>>140308971

It starts with the premise that evil exists.

the first question should be "does evil exist?"

and even before that we could ask "what is evil?"

I think an athiest would have a very hard time even getting into the flow chart to begin with were these questions asked. how can one use their own subjective reality to define an action as good or evil?

but beyond this

I find the flow chart to be flawed when we come to the "Could god have created a universe without these" part.

this presupposes that an all powerful being can literally make anything. but what you are really playing at is semantics.

you think because god doesn't manifest three sided squares and doesn't make other logically inconsistent things that this somehow makes god not all powerful. but its just word games.

furthermore the answers to most of these questions would have to be answered "I don't know" if you are being honest with yourself. and after answering 4-6 questions in a row with "i don't know" how confident are you that you can arrive at a solid premise?

>>140316279
Yes you did, you claimed what god considers right is right meaning by definition he is good. The issue with that is since god is unknowable so is what could actually be considered good.

>>140316160
Literally the logical fallacy of appeal to majority.

If you want to talk about what exists in the world then it boils down to might makes right

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>>140308971
Intellectual masterbation, it's not saying anything of substance and can be refuted in the same nihilistic manner through superior linguistic mastery

and where has that gotten us

NO
FUCKING
WHERE

>>140316300
>Jihadi flag
>Inbred religious cunt
Flag checks out.

>>140316160
>it's good because most people think it's good.
first off, your "morality" is literally the bandwagon fallacy. second, what happens when popular opinion changes? does morality change with it as well? when 90% of the people in the world think it's okay to kill your neighbor, is it suddenly moral?

>>140316217
this
god is a faggot

>>140316209
>i don't want no part in that
Not an argument, now fuck off newfag heres your (you).

>>140316369
Yea, an omniscient god, by definition of being omniscient, would know what is good or evil.

OP, ignore the retarded sophists. Taken it from this:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
http://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

Most of the replies in this thread are by idiots.

>>140316389
>when 90% of the people in the world think it's okay to kill your neighbor, is it suddenly moral?
Yes, not that it would happen because humans are capable of empathy. Morality is defined by a society and what the society sees as right and wrong. Some societies think money lending is wrong, some societies think human sacrifice is okay, some societies think people shouldn't eat animals, some societies think eating people is okay.

>>140316311

>>140315665
>>140315352
>>140315288
and many more

why don't you define evil for us already?

>>140316369
>The issue with that is since god is unknowable so is what could actually be considered good.
Not an issue for the problem OP proposes.

>>140316523
And since he doesn't allow evil to happen (otherwise he isn't omnibenevolent) than by definition nothing I do will ever be evil.

>>140308971
Too many fallacies under the arrows, I lost interest. Try harder.

>>140316573
Take*

>>140308971
Theisists have answered this already without using fallacies. The answer is evil is indeterminate. Therefore, your entire logic chain is based on the subjectivity of the individual and cannot be transferred to other individuals without each individual first defining evil.

>>140316389
Here is what the bible has to say about evil.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/good_and_evil


> Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

So let me get this straight, your whole argument is that evil cannot be known since it's subjective, yet your book states clearly to overcome it. If there is no clear and objective definition of evil, and everything is subjective, then from my point of view, god is evil, and I will follow his words as stated here

>Romans 12:21 ESV / 362 helpful votes
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

The fallacy is where it states that if God does not want to prevent evil, then god is malevolent.

That presupposes that humanity is even capable of understanding motives and forces on that scale.

2 year old: Mommy controls access to the ice cream. Ice cream makes me happy. Mommy won't give me the ice cream. Mommy doesn't care about my happiness. Mommy is bad, I hate mommy.

The 2 year old's understanding of the world is too immature, and so is that of humanity.

>>140316678
evil is something that is profoundly immoral and wicked.
you must be retarded to not know what evil is
it requires no explanation
i ignore brainlets who ask trivial questions

>>140316726
defeated by superior intellect eh?
seems like (((theism))) has lost this one

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>>140316617
>murder is good if everyone thinks so
i'll say it again, your "morals" are a logical fallacy

>>140316707
Assuming is not benevolent to let evil happen

>>140308971
Ever played The Sims or any god simulation game?

>>140316892
but what do you think it's immoral and wicked? gay people think getting fucked in the ass is moral

>>140316844
Better yet, your mother leaves you alone in a house in short reach of household items that could hospitalize or kill you, because free will.

Greatest parent of all time.

>>140317004
consensual sex between two adults is fine

>>140317003
no
care to elaborate?

>>140316892
>call's me retarded
>defines evil as something that's immoral
well genius, what's moral? and please, this time actually try to back a point up instead of using ad hominem

>>140308971
There are so many holes in this argument, that an intellectually honest person could not really believe it was foolproof. One e.g.: OP's flowchart doesn't deal with the fact that God wants more than one thing, and there are logical tradeoffs between such things. He takes measures to help reduce evil, which is far more loving than he is required to be, and yet he doesn't exist to serve us; rather it is the other way around.

>>140317112
not same sex according to God tho, you are wrong there

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Evil is a lack of good like cold is lack of heat. It has to exist on the basis of universal law.

>>140315582
>why should people suffer? especially children

becouse suffering ennobles. you won't be looking for God or anything realy if you are good with what you have

>>140310653
Gratz you are dumber than a chair.

>>140317458
>>140317349
>>140317256
>>140317180
>>140317173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234

>>140317501
this

>>140317520
>wanting to protect your ass for being destroyed is evil

>>140308971

>try to refute this theists without using fallacies.
>just try to prove this false.

>just try to prove this false.

>prove this false.

first off. nothing in the history of the universe has ever been "proven false". that is a logical fallacy from the start. you cannot prove something is false. there is always the unknown.

SECONDLY.

The answer to most of these questions would have to be answered "I don't know" if you are being honest with yourself.

After answering 4-6 questions in a row with "I don't know" how confident are you that you can arrive at a solid conclusion?

>>140317520
>can't define morality
>sends link to the jewtube video he's been parroting
so before i listen to someone make the same exact arguments you've been making, care to prove what is good and moral? hell, you can even define evil and immorality if that's easier for you

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>>140308971
>736x736

>>140317256
But god doesn't exist so.....

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>>140317520
I watched that video a while ago. That's what it is. a video. Search deeply enough and you will see everything in life has a cause and effect. Maybe the mother and child ar detrimental to society. Maybe the child would grow up to be a malevolent man causing muxh more evil than the murderer. We just don't know. The plot that DM2525 built is contained and it is thinking inside the box.

>>140316678
Me defining evil would prove your flow chart correct, because if I define it then I'd be agreeing it exists and your chart would proceed as normal. Because OPs thread is about refuting the chart, saying evil doesn't exist is the only answer.

I'm not even arguing for or against, I'm just solving the riddle without adding my own feelings and emotions

this is the kind of atypical anti God garbage that is where you think you are smarter than God if the eternal Good and highest Good is salvation perse and you have free will because of the perfectly Good nature of God then he allows evil to occur as only he could to teach you right from wrong a taste of heaven or hell as a precursor.The greater Good is not your mortal happines but immortal happiness the story of Christ is God becoming human to duffer with you to help you and perfect you in him the defeat of evil and sin to obtain his glory. In other words being a bitch and whining about you wittle problems in the grand schem of things OR even truly horrible evil on earth ahs a purpose and God Allowing for his reasons shows he neither is for it, but allowing it to achieve the greater good, reptentance, fortification, supplication whatever to save your ass for the real judgement. To hold yourself up above the creator as the created is insane. That is brekaing ti down barney style for you

>Fedora babies trying to play theology

Fat monks from 1000 years ago have already destroyed everything you try to use as a pathetic argument

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/index.html

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>>140308971
>Then why didn't he?
>Free-will
>Could God have create a universe with free-will but without evil?
>No
>Then God is not all Powerful.
Wrong.
Free-will requires the ability to choose between good and evil
if there was a universe where "free-will" existed but without the ability to choose evil then it wouldn't be the same concept as free-will in this universe
trying to say that free-will can exist in a universe without evil is nonsensical
that's like saying God should have made a universe that has gravity but no mass
or water that isn't wet

it's nonsense the value of free-will is in the ability to choose evil or good
or to put it more simply just take the word free-will out
God wanted us to have the ability to choose evil

and even if you can't see the logic in that then I don't see what's the point in saying that God is not all-powerful because He can't create a universe where free-will exists without evil
if your goal is to make me admit that God is almost all-powerful with one exception then great woop-tee-doo how does that defeat Christianity?
it's as stupid as asking if God can create a rock so big that He can't lift it
you get to say
>He's not all-powerful either way

tl;dr this argument is shit

>>140317785
he makes solid points that theism can't answer

>>140308971
>God is not good / loving
Probably this. Or we don't know his motives. Maybe _we_ need evil to not go completely apathetic and just die?

>>140317760
that's your hope to get fucked in the ass, dont you faggot

>>140308990
>Evil
When the rain kill bugs, do you offer your house as a shelter to ants?

>>140317797
oh, the bottom chunk of (yous) were me pointing out where people have asked him to define evil. the entire flow chart implies evil is something that can be proven, but it also doesn't care to elaborate on what that evil would be. that's similar to me saying "is god cool" without defining what cool is, and proving why that is the one true definition of cool.

worshiping a dead kike on a stick?
no thanks

>>140317785
The 'thinking outside the box' you're using requires hindsight, which is never there when you need it, reducing it to a useless factor for humanity, yet it would be something a truly omniscient being could foresee.

>>140317893
really
give me one point that theism can't answer

>>140318065
>doesn't know the difference between Christians and Jews
well here's the key point, Christians think Jesus was the savior. Jesus thought he was the savior. Jews don't think Jesus was the savior. if you're not too much of a brainlet then you should be able to understand this.

>>140308971
what is good? what is evil?

>>140317929
I'm not hoping, I'm simply basing that off of empirical evidence. God doesn't exist. Simple as that.

>>140318222
everything

>>140308971
There is a simple solution to this problem, assuming god exists of course. Evil is only something that exists from a human perspective. It doesnt have any meaning from the perspective of a cosmic and omnipotent creator. Same as "meaning" itself. These are merely human concepts. Why do people always assume that just because god exists, then so must various metaphysical principles exist, and so necessarily must also souls exist. Why could god not have created an entirely physical world, and the only metaphysical entity/concept is god himself, and we have no connection to him? Why is this never considered? In essence then this world would be much like the world from the perspective of an atheist, except there was an original causal factor in the form of god. If god is like this, then we can simply say that evil, just like good, has meaning only to humans for biological and evolutionary reasons. Thats it. Nothing metaphysical. This idea that the existence of God necessarily implies the existence of any metaphysics we have a connection to is an entirely illogical leap. We could be soulless creatures all the same, living in an entirely material world.

>>140308971
Axiom is that Evil exists. Evil is just good for a person with a different point of view.

>>140318423
i just explained it earlier

>>140318215
Indeed, and on this basis the video provided is faulty.
>>140317893
If you are looking for answers you need to look inside yourself. Read the Kybalion, it will benefit you in everyday life as well as give you a better perspective regarding the concept of god.

>>140317879
>evil is necessary for free will to exist
Wrong.

A being with omnipotence would easily be able to create a reality in which at least two choices can exist for any action in which the outcome is equally benevolent.

Can't do it? Then the being isn't all powerful.

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>>140318431
k...

>>140318479
Good and evil do not depend in any way from point of views. What people think or say does not matter at all, since good and evil do not depend on anyone.

>>140318431

do you intend on actually engaging any of these arguments or just shitposting?

you have 44 posts on this thread and its just circular reasoning giving no solid responses to real posts.

>>140318423
he's been dodging this question all thread because he knows it would destroy his argument. good luck getting the brainlet to answer. he said that evil = immoral but didn't then qualify what immoral was

>>140318429
>there is evidence god doesn't exist
You went full retard, even people like Richard Dawkins don't claim that

>>140318429
God and theology are well above your lesser sciences you don't understand

>>140308971
God is the underlying consciousness of the entire universe. You and your primate brain trying to make sense of God's intentions and plans is like an ant trying to understand how an F22 Raptor works or what it's purpose is.

The point is that this is completely outside of your comprehension, at least in this material world. This the one thing that I truly hate about you atheists. Your delusions of grandeur. You believe there is nothing greater than yourselves and believe you have it all figured out meanwhile scoffing at millennia of tradition and the intuition of men much more intelligent than you.

Also why don't you kill yourselves? What is even the point of living if you are an atheist? Seriously you want to talk about paradoxes?

Here is a paradox for you. Why are atheists not killing themselves since there is no point to anything and after death it's just 'fade to black' and nothing else? You believe that when you die, it will be as if you never even existed. Then what fucking reason do you even have to live? To make shitty bait threads on mongolian weaving forums? Everything you do is meaningless since when you die it will be as if you never even existed, than why do anything.

Seriously KYS

Just because a god watches on the sidelines and doesn't prevent evil does it mean he is evil too. Unless he actively participates in an act of evil, then god by definition is not evil. The lack of actively destroying evil does not mean he is not good. A thing can still be good without having to always actively destroy evil. A thing can be good by its very being, by its nature. By that logic in OP's picture, god is evil any moment he doesn't pursue and destroy; further extended, this would mean god has to destroy evil 24/7/365, and if he doesn't then he is evil.

This is wrong thinking. He knows of evil, and he can prevent evil, but he chooses not to because that defeats the purpose of a human's journey to Jesus. Think of it this way: a cake is much more rewarding once you take the effort and time to get the ingredients, whisk the eggs, milk and vanilla, add the flour, etc., etc., and finally come out with a cake. If someone else were to do it for you, and much more easily mind you, then it takes away from the experience and taste of the cake. A god chooses to let humans prevent evil because humans are in his image, they can choose to destroy evil, but they can also choose not to, that what free will is. Just because god doesn't actively <want> to destroy evil doesn't mean he isn't good. I hate this black and white dichotomy people construct in an illogical effort to propagandize christian metaphysical theology as stupid. It's much more complex than saying "hurr durr god is powerful and all knowing but he hasnt stopped evil yet?" It's much more than that - you can't simplify it to a flowchart.

>>140308971
It doesn't matter if God knows the outcome of the test. What is important is our experience and growth. He's not giving a test so he can know the outcome, but for us to experience it. Imagine how dull life would be if God made it perfect. It would be a reality with no point to it. Such a waste of existence would be the ultimate evil.

>>140317893
Except for the real Epicurus apparently.

>>140315193
Faggot OP still hasn't answered this. Do you really desire a world of mere existence?

>>140318608
make a claim and i will refute it

>>140318429
you have proof everywhere, even scientist are starting to think about God, quantum physics, multi-dimension meme

you just dont want to see it cause you want to get fucked in the ass, i assume

>>140318512
>evil isn't necessary for free will to exist
absolutely wrong

why don't you exercise some of your attention span and actually read everything i said
it might take you a few hours to fully comprehend it giving your intellectual competence but im sure if you keep at it you can do it eventually

>Can't do it? Then the being isn't all powerful.
i already addressed this you imbecile

>>140308971
The problem with all of these is that they assume that Christians are God's think tanks, when in reality, God might as well be doing this for laffs and giggles.
Besides, how could there be good without evil?

>>140318494
>Indeed, and on this basis the video provided is faulty.
Well no, because the supreme being in question is supposed to be omniscient, meaning all choices and their consequences are known. While hindsight isn't all that applicable to us, it is absolutely applicable to Yahweh.

>>140318721
>god is blah blah blah
>your primate brain can't make sense of god
>mine can

>>140318812

I have several times.

>>140317640
>>140317640
>>140317640

>>140318730
Who created evil?

>>140318512
Don't use terms you don't understand. If you don't know what "omnipotence" means, don't use that word because you will just look retarded.

>>140318649
Honestly, you're right. I rescind my comment. A statement like that can't really be stated as a factual truth. Apologies.

>>140318707
>u jst dnt understnd muh reelidjun bro!
Fuck off, look at my earlier posts. You Christ cucks are too predictable.

>>140318812
>Not a single citation anywhere.
K

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>>140315193
this guy gets it

the argument is essentially just fidgeting with semantics
>a universe can exist with free-will and no evil
no it can't

and then basically responds with
>can God create a rock He himself can't carry?
>no?/yes?
>then God isn't all-powerful!!!!!
>checkmate theists!

>>140318812
The terms in the strawman Epicurus proof are illdefined and subjective which in and of itself is a reason to dismiss the proof as flawed.

File: Demiurge Propaganda Rebuked.png (786KB, 1400x2700px) Image search: [Google]

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>>140308971
>what is the demiurge
>confusing the demiurge with the all
>what is polarity and duality
0/10 reddit tier bait
saged

>>140308971

God does not adhere to human logic. You're not wrong that you can find logical issues with any human conception of god. But if he is real, then that doesn't matter.

The only justification for belief in God is feelings, intuition, spiritual experience, trusting spiritual elders, and/or just plain faith.

>>140319001
at least you're intellectually honest, hope you have a good night/rest of your day.

>>140311868
Atheists can in dead grant the premise for the sake of argument. People do this all the time in philosophy and perhaps...just stay with me for a moment...perhaps they are actually showing you that both god can't be supported by your arguments and that there isn't objective morality.

>>140317349
Evil is not the lack of good. Evil requires an evil act. A mere lacking of goodness does not mean something is evil. I'm currently not doing an act of good, does that mean I am evil right now? If I were to choke my cat right now, that is evil correct? We both agree with common sense - it is evil to choke a cat. Likewise, it is good to feed my cat because that is a sign that I care for it as an animal. That is an act of good. So, if I were to not feed the cat, that doesn't mean I'm evil, it just means I'm not doing an act of good toward the cat.

>>140319001
I understand it very well, which it why I can mock retarded fedoras talking about "envidenece", "proof" and "science" when they don't know what those things mean

>>140312166
dumb leaf is mental gymnast

Asshole, anything substantial to say, apart from "you don't know what is good and evil"?

Also, in Bible, which OP is challenging as his pic clearly mentioning Christian fate (e.g. humans being tested / Satan referred) evil and good is clear cut. It is not subjective, so your shit is dumb, trying to hide in muddy waters.

You couldn't say anything to argue and as a result you lost. Suck it up, nigger.

>>140308971
This doesn't prove that god doesn't exist. It only shows that he isn't necessarily good.

>>140308971
God is all powerful within reason. He could not create a four sided triangle as it is nonsense.

Nonsense is essentially nothing.

To say God is limited by nonsense because he cannot create nonsense is tantamount to saying God is limited by nothing. It is not a meaningful critique.

>>140319344
If god isn't good, should you follow him?

Let's reword that: if satan is bad, should you follow him?

>>140319283
What? I didn't say you didn't understand your own religion. I know English is your second language, but if you're going to try and participate at least keep up.

>>140319344
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1006.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm

>>140319415
Doesn't matter. You don't know anything about the things you talk about beyond some hearsay. I do.

>>140319395
All powerful isn't possible then given 4 sided triangles. God is not all powerful. His power is limited. But the implication is that he creates everything we know of and is the most powerful being.

>>140318973
Humans. I see where you're going. God created humans, humans created evil. We're like his image. Evil is a concept, a metaphysical concept, yes. Humans participated in the first act of evil, but that doesn't mean humans are entirely evil. They just experienced the first act of evil in the Garden of Eden. So just because humans did an act of evil does not equate to god being evil just because humans participated in an act of evil. For god to be evil, he would have to create a human being who's purpose is entirely evil. Humans can do good too, but can do evil, but that is because of free will. God did not create evil, but he did allow humans the power to create evil through free will and choosing how to act - they can act good or evil. But it is a constant choosing of either. Again, however, just because a human chooses to be evil in one instant does not mean God is evil or isn't capable of preventing evil.

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>>140319395
great way of phrasing it
i shall try to remember this

>>140319558
Is god the limitations of our imagination?

>>140318946
Why are you not killing yourself? Do it faggot. There is no point to anything. This is what you believe, that when you die it will be as if you never existed, so do it. Logically there is no reason for you to continue living.

>>140319528
What makes you more of an expert than me? I've likely read just as many religious texts as you have, and some that you've probably never even touched.

>>140318837
Perhaps you should take your own advice, I didn't respond to the rest because its fallacious. Try not to have a tantrum in every reply you make.

>if there was a universe where "free-will" existed but without the ability to choose evil then it wouldn't be the same concept as free-will in this universe
Irrelevant. Just because you see it that way, doesn't mean it is that way, or the only way it can be.

The rest is comparing completely different things and declaring them 'logical' when they are not.

>i already addressed this you imbecile
No, you think you did in your little sperg out, but you failed to see the point from where I was coming from.

>>140319558
you clearly don't understand what he said
not being able to do paradoxes is not a requirement for being all powerful
all-powerful is a word, a concept

you can say the concept itself is impossible by making pardoxes all you want but the concept still exists