/pol/ - Communism General

What makes you think that something that doesn't work is going to work this time?

>>140264292
>implying the mods care about this shithole of a containment thread

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>mfw finding a podcast with all of Zizek's lectures

http://zizekpodcast.com/category/zizek/

>>140264063
this is most likely my favorite poster.

>>140264148
GO AWAY EVIL DOGGER

>>140263909
Fuck off shlomo.

>>140264809

Oooga booga whera da wyte wimminz at?

>>140263909
Fuck off commies

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>>140264292
oh no poor baby

>>140264292
What's that? Leftie ideas can only survive on a heavily censored environment because they are not grounded in reality and they fall down with the least amount of scrutiny??? Who would it thought

>>140265451
>>140265451
>be you
>bump thread
in every field

>>140265758
I want this thread to be deleted for ever.

>>140266163
I want a free pony

xin chao

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>>140264063
I fucking love this pasta

>>140266766
you not funny

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>>140267211
It is not going to work.

>>140267266
see what a loser you are?

Communism can't work in community of more than 10 people, anarcho primitivism is more realist.

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>>140264063

>>140268126
you need better hobby

>>140266402
Lenin never liberalized markets

>>140265451
>Leftie ideas can only survive on a heavily censored environment because they are not grounded in reality and they fall down with the least amount of scrutiny

Derails thread with pasta instead of scrutinizing

GTFO

>>140269037
>believes leftist ideologies can't work
>refuses to actually say why
>uses pasta to silence leftists
>muh bastion of free speech

>>140269585
Doesn't change the fact that you lemmings refuse to ever discuss leftist ideas and you use copy pasta to silence leftists.

>so much free speech
>definitely not a circle jerk
>definitely not a safe space

>>140270333
I never see people actually making good arguments. it is either memes, pasta, or it is people smugly claiming that it "can never work" without actually explaining why.

>>140270704
You do not have to outright ban people to silence them. Spamming pasta on threads silences people the same way reddit's voting does or how accusations of racism/sexism do.

>>140270390
They are just afraid

>>140270631
also i am a union plumber

Commies, I have some questions I always wanted to ask.

What defines "the state" and what does it truly mean to be a "stateless society"?

How are rapists, murderers, and thieves dealt with in a society without police?

How would such a society prevent armed radicals from taking control and creating a dictatorship?

How do you defend yourselves from foreign empires?

>>140271097
again not actually discussing ideas

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>>140270390
>silence leftists
You're not b& yet so I'm going to say your full of shit. People don't take these threads seriously because everytime someone puts forth an argument that would take any actual effort to refute (or Marx forbid they're actually right about something), you ignore them.

>>140270789
Are you new to chans or something? You get at least one or two each thread, if you want higher quality of discussion then just respond to them and ignore the rest. Everyone has forgotten that you get out what you put in.
Unless of course your definition of a good argument is one that supports Marxism Leninism. If that's the case you'd better not hold your breath.

>>140271230
First off just for context I should say that i am a syndicalist like Chromsky, not a totalist like the Bolsheviks or soviets. Syndicalists want the primary force in an economy to be groups of worker controlled unions known as syndicates. for example you might have a farmer's union in each state and then farm's syndicate connecting all of them. In this way power is decentralized throughout local unions and individual workers will have a large degree of control over their local industry. Any overarching government would be limited in scope and there would be no head of state. To prevent syndicates from just becoming a new oppressive force a constitution would be used to keep them democratically controlled and power localized.

"The state" in marxist theory is essentially the person or group that controls society be it a king, parliament, banks, or whatever else. A stateless society would be one in which no group is able to effectively force their will over the people and the people as a whole direct society.

There are a few different options for dealing with criminals in a stateless society and different communist groups have different answers. One option is small scale community policing. Some communists advocate for a larger police force like we have today, but much more democratically controlled.

We would hypothetically deal with armed radicals in mostly the same way as criminals.

This is probably the best argument against a communist society and the answer is that a full communist society really wouldn't be able to and as such could only exist if socialism has been achieved on a global scale.

It is important to note that communism =/= socialism and that there has not ever existed a communist society of any scale. Syndicalism is a form of socialism NOT communism. Socialism is essentially a worker led state and communism can develop once every state is socialist.

>>140273149
What do you think about the fact that Communism is Jewish?

>>140271328
Yes, i am new to 4chan, I came here for actual discussion and engagement of ideas. I found that Reddit is to much of an echo chamber and I actually got banned from some socialist subreddits when I said that policing language was an ineffective strategy. I am willing to engage with you if you put forward an argument. I have already responded to the one person who actually wanted to discuss anything.

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>>140273016
Thanks for your support comrade, but I think you forgot to change your flag. We need to keep fighting the fascists and capitalist scum

>>140273680
So you believe jews are using global banks and corporations to control the world yes? Socialists are against global banks and corporations.

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>>140273680
It is not. You on the other hand, have a lot to answer for.

>>140273839
>So you believe jews are using global banks and corporations to control the world yes?
And Communism is created and controlled by Jews.

>Socialists are against global banks and corporations.
So are National Socialists. With the benefit that the White race will exist and the Jews won't be destroying it. As they did with Communism and Capitalism.

>>140273863
>It is not. You on the other hand, have a lot to answer for.
Why would I believe Jewish lies?

I posted this in its own thread but I will share it here since I may get a response:

Let's say I lean revolutionary socialist but am very turned off by modern liberal democratic policy tendencies of the left. (Socialism aint what it used to be.)

I am talking about things like diversity quotas, "movement" environmentalism, "gun control" (a.k.a. hamstringing the working class by de-arming them), and other limp-wristed positions that are arguably peripheral to the core issue of transforming capitalist society.

I am wondering if there now remain any classical Marxist-Leninist organizations in the USA or elsewhere because when I look at what's available all I see are weakling liberal democrats using the label socialist.

>inb4 muh national socialism

>>140273863
>You on the other hand, have a lot to answer for.
Said the Judeo Communists.

Communism's Death Toll, and the Jewish Role in Bolshevism
https://youtube.com/watch?v=km6u4L1JsmY

>>140273626
Shut the fuck up, you god damn chimp. I'm trying to learn.

>>140273149
So it's not that you want 100% anarchy, it's that you want decentralized forms of small-scale direct democracy. That clears up a lot of misunderstandings I have.

One more question I have is that Marx wrote very extensively on why religion was an evil force that needed to be abolished. Virtually all Marxists of the 20th century agreed on this and worked to dismantle the institution of religion in their respective nations. How prevalent is this belief among today's Marxists?

>>140274069
Communism is an idea. It isn't controlled by anyone.

>>140274069
Don't dodge the question, were or were you not borrowing money from Jewish bankers?

>>140274263
>Communism is an idea. It isn't controlled by anyone.
An idea created by and controlled by jews.

Anti-Semitism
https://marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm
http://archive.is/XxRXf
>In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.

Karl Marx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx#Childhood_and_early_education:_1818.E2.80.931836
http://archive.is/rwTdC
>Ancestrally Ashkenazi Jewish, his maternal grandfather was a Dutch rabbi, while his paternal line had supplied Trier's rabbis since 1723, a role taken by his grandfather Meier Halevi Marx.

Lenin's Jewish Roots Put on Display in Russian Museum
https://jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Lenins-Jewish-roots-put-on-display-in-Russian-museum
https://archive.is/6Z8XT

Leon Trotsky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotski#Childhood_and_family_.281879.E2.80.931895.29
http://archive.is/xMRhM
>He was the fifth child of eight of well-to-do Jewish farmers, David Leontyevich Bronshtein and his wife Anna Bronshtein. The family was Jewish but reportedly not religious.

Putin: First Soviet Government was Mostly Jewish
http://jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Putin-First-Soviet-government-was-mostly-Jewish-317150
http://archive.is/uNDV5


>>140274266
>Don't dodge the question, were or were you not borrowing money from Jewish bankers?
Nope.

Hitler Arrested Baron Louis De Rothschild
https://archive.is/tYZyn

Hitler versus Rothschild
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wk7F3OYhp4Q

Hitler Was Not a Rothschild or a Zionist Agent
http://mk.christogenea.org/podcasts/hitler-was-not-rothschild-or-zionist-agent

Hitler's Speech Against the International Bankers, Warmongers, England
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3aKE4M5bk

How Hitler Defied the International Bankers
https://archive.org/details/HowHitlerDefiedTheInternationalBankers

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>>140274157
Child's play compared to capitalist and fascist death toll.

>>140274478
>Child's play compared to capitalist and fascist death toll.
lmao. The Holocaust literally didn't happen you jewish faggot.

Meanwhile...

Stalin's Willing Executioners: Jews as a Hostile Elite in the USSR
https://darkmoon.me/2015/stalins-willing-executioners-jews-hostile-elite-ussr/
http://archive.is/NaSDY

>>140273680
It is not
Marx said that the God of the jews is money and that they would cease to exist when communism was achieved
A lot of revolutionaires were jewish because they had better education and were usually marginalized from society

>>140274440
>This video is not available in your country

Sorry pal, it seems your fake news are not working here.

>>140274681
>>This video is not available in your country
Well I actually live in a country what doesn't attempt to hide the truth from the people. It's not my fault your commie governments block the truth.

Besides, I posted much more than video links.

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>>140274657
>Marx said that the God of the jews is money and that they would cease to exist when communism was achieved
Then why were Jews a protected class in Communist society?

Anti-Semitism
https://marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm
http://archive.is/XxRXf
>In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.

Soviets Evacuating Jews
http://archive.is/0rw2L

Soviets Razed Churches, Spared Synagogues
http://henrymakow.com/001913.html
http://archive.is/hcyTf

>A lot of revolutionaires were jewish because they had better education and were usually marginalized from society
Isn't it amazing how Jews are always behind the ideologies and beliefs that harm the White race?

A Jew in Mao's China
http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/159051/a-jew-in-maos-china/
http://archive.is/zuvnn

Jewish Pre-Eminence in the Political Left/Communism
http://holywar.org/jewishtr/commun.htm
http://archive.is/9GVHi

Jewish Faces in Chinese Government
http://archive.is/FDURV

Jews and Communism - The South African Experience
http://rense.com/general85/jcom.htm
http://archive.is/QqhGD

The Truth About Nelson Mandela – Communist, Terrorist, Murderer (With Jewish Handlers)
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/06/the-truth-about-nelson-mandela-communist-terrorist-murderer-with-jewish-handlers-3170156.html
http://archive.is/02SqB

>>140274440
Anti-semitism was punishable as any other form of discrimination against people
That means nothing

>>140274203
Yes, classical anarchy is not the desire for chaos. it is the rejection of unjust hierarchies. This is why most classical anarchists do not believe that ancaps are "real anarchists", because they promote the corporate hierarchy.

Marx believed that organized religion was being used as a tool to enforce the entrenched power structure. Most 21st century socialists hold roughly the same view. Most modern socialists are ok with religious practices but they are against religious organizations as a political force. Personally I do not believe in any god or "spirituality". I do however highly respect Christ as a philosopher and believe in most of his moral teachings. I also believe modern Protestantism in the U.S. has essentially abandoned the teachings of Christ. all of that talk of giving to the poor and not striving for worldly possessions doesn't really fit into capitalism after all.

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>>140274730
You know, there are legitimate criticisms and arguments against Marxist theory. You could always try to have a constructive dialogue instead of gondola posting.

But then again, you're only looking for (you)s. So here (you) go, kiddo.

Also for the record, I'm right-wing. But fuck me for wanting to learn more about politics and philosophy, right?

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>>140275129
>Anti-semitism was punishable as any other form of discrimination against people
Then show the laws protecting Christians and/or Whites in the USSR...oh...wait....

Soviets Razed Churches, Spared Synagogues
http://henrymakow.com/001913.html
http://archive.is/hcyTf

If you Jewish communists weren't so blatant liars it might actually be funny.

But you want to destroy the White race with your Jewish trick and that is just disgusting.

Pic related. You faggot hippies support this shit, don't you?

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>>140275239
Thank you for your time, friend.

>>140274478
I know you're trolling but where do they get their numbers for deaths under capitalism? African countries?

>>140268918
What is NEP?

>>140275399
You know that isn't a real quote

>>140264135
Fpbp

>>140275814
It is a bit of a stretch to say that the NEP was liberalizing markets. No libertarian would have considered it a free market. It was mostly a way of limiting the amount of administrative oversight needed.

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>>140275814
>You know that isn't a real quote
That's why I added a source to the quote. So you couldn't dismiss it out of hand. Now you've just proven that you're a liar.


Under the Sign of the Scorpion - Jewish Communists
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lZj1emEb1-g

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Working in McDonald is FASCISM WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WWWHAAHW I HATE BEING A WAGE KEK! WHHAHHHHHAAA!

>>140275748
It says at the bottom. I believe his point was that when people say that communism killed 100 million people they are counting literally everything and they are taking the highest possible estimates. If you capitalism to that same standard you get an absolutely massive death toll.

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the Right-wing NAZIS are on the rise GOYS! IM REALLY SCARED! AHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>140276471
Which is why National Socialism is the only correct answer.

Not only does it have a massive death toll, the Jews had to invent a Holocaust to claim it was bad.

>>140276094
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy

> Lenin characterized "state capitalism" and his NEP policies in 1922 as an economic system that would include "a free market and capitalism, both subject to state control..."

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aaaaand /thread.

Communists are retards.

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>>140276724

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>tfw
>struggling to dismantle white supremacy

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>>140276912

Whats the difference between communism and socialism

>>140277133
According to the constitution of the USSR, socialism is the economic system which communism operates. Communism is like the tentacles that come from the Krakens socialist head, reaching into cultural and other state spheres.

>cue stalinoctopus.jpg

>>140274681
>post arguments :^)
>lol not going to reply to arguments lets talk about useless shit like these old stupid communist theories again instead :^)
Not an argument

>>140275814
>post arguments :^)
>lol its not real i dont give a shit about your sources not going to reply lets talk about useless shit like these old stupid communist theories again instead :^)
Not an argument

>>140276752
>subject to state control
It may have been slightly more liberal, but no liberal at the time or in the modern day would have considered it a liberalized economy.

>>140276471
Give me an example of a death toll that is attributed to communism that you think is unfair.

>>140277485
His argument was based on false information therefor his argument was false.

Keep fighting the good fight lads. Let the proletariat know that we are for them

You have to be a special kind of a fucking retard in order to be commie

>>140277531
>"but no liberal at the time or in the modern day would have considered it a liberalized economy"
>thinking liberals today are classical liberals
>this out of touch with society and reality

>>140277736
>no job
>fights for those with jobs
>those with jobs are republican
>"muh education!"
>GOP'ers have higher paying jobs

>>140277925
>You have to be a special kind of a fucking retard in order to be commie

no doubts about this

>>140277718
The often sited "black book of communism" claims that communism killed 1 0 0 m i l l i o n people. The data collection for this book however is really shaky and the author took the highest possible estimates of everything. Not to mention the fact that most of the deaths he counts where not directly caused by any communist governments or policies. It is more like maybe 100 million people died in communist countries to preventable causes. The author of the book himself admits that he was always striving to reach the 100 million mark far before he actually started research. If you apply the same methods to capitalism you get much larger death tolls.

>>140277925
You're right. The same special kind of retard to be a national socialist. Social democracy does the job a lot better than these two shitty ideologies. Socialism inspired, a system where the flaws of capitalism are known and not ignored but also aware of what capitalism does well and is good. The best in the world.

inb4 muh """"""""socdem""""""" neoliberal eurocucks

>>140278196
Modern liberals are essentially just classical liberals + welfare. Our window for political discourse in the U.S. is tiny so within that window they may seem far apart but they really aren't.

>>140278289
That's not what I asked. Even if over estimated, what death groups did he attribute to communism that you think is unfair? Them blaming capitalism for the Africans dying of malaria is a stretch to me, seeing how you having the right to your own property and production didn't CAUSE it or enable it. What example can you give is similar to say deaths contributed to communism?

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>>140278289
>If you apply the same methods to capitalism you get much larger death tolls.

We're talking about ideological motivation. Communists perform ideological purges, and export food in the middle of famines.

They do that so they can steal en masse personal property like land,houses, ALL communications and transport are supposed to be owned by the government, then they banned religion but brought it back while passive aggressively trying to erode it today but still don't believe in free speech or free expression.

If we purged all commies right now, we would be purging evil. We're evil for not going out of our way to do that.

>>140277731
>His argument was based on false information
It's not false information because you don't like the quote.

Either discredit the quote or accept it as truth.

>>140277736
>Let the proletariat know that we are for them
But you want to destroy the White race....

>>140278688
There was no Holodomor, for example. Just a famine.

>>140278688
Well for one the deaths of holodromer. Russia and the Ukraine had been having famines very regularly for centuries. Those famines stopped after the soviet Union industrialized agriculture and collectivized the food supply. There was a drop in productivity during the early stages of this, but there is no evidence that it was intentional. In fact internal records from the soviet government (made available after the disillusion of the USSR) show that once Moscow was aware of the famine they stopped grain shipments out of Ukraine and sent aid from central Russia.

Also while it is wrong to blame capitalism for all of the deaths to malaria, capitalists patenting the malaria vaccine and preventing others from manufacturing it definitely played a part.

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>>140278579
>putting a sensible point across in a concise and coherent way
>wish you'd addressed cultural degeneration of values in the left
>most gommies would've been purged by the old schoolers

>>140279525
>There was no Holodomor, for example. Just a famine.
The difference of course being that an entire people don't base the existence of their country on the holodomor, their perfect victim status on the holodomor and ruin the lives of 80 year old women by throwing them into prison for denying the holodomor.

...Not so with the so-called holocaust though. Even though there is zero evidence for the holocaust.

>>140279525
>export food
>during the middle of a famine
>steal peoples land
>famine gets worse
>somehow not a genocide

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>>140279616
> Those famines stopped after the soviet Union industrialized agriculture and collectivized the food supply.

Flat out lie. This exacerbated the famine tremendously by removing incentives. When the Soviets went to examine the Chinese progress in agriculture, they were appalled by the use of private incentives as it was an anti-soviet concept grounded in their version of collectivism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvhzRz0DjE&t=2855s

>there is no evidence that it was intentional
see post:>>140279790

Then google instead of plugging your ears.

>In fact internal records from the soviet government (made available after the disillusion of the USSR) show that once Moscow was aware of the famine they stopped grain shipments out of Ukraine and sent aid from central Russia.

You literally just made this shit up. This is the exact opposite of what was documented, at least according the the post 90's release of classified information.

>>140279790
They stopped exporting, though.

>>140279462
Your source was a novel by someone who had never met Trotsky and with a clear bias against socialism. That is hardly a source at all. Not to mention the fact that the quote doesn't even sound like Trotsky. It doesn't fit his rhetorical style. When you are making a claim absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

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>>140280377
>"Your source was a novel by someone who had never met Trotsky and with a clear bias against socialism. That is hardly a source at all."
>you have to speak to the person you biograph in order to be accurate
>anyone who disagrees with and idea can't be trusted to speak objectively
>anon claims he knows Trotsky's rhetorical style when we all have access to it on the internet

>>140280741
Simanovich wrote a biography on Rasputin not Trotsky.

>>140275399
>laws protecting Christians and/or Whites
USSR was the first state to ban racism

>>140280741
>>you have to speak to the person you biograph in order to be accurate
>>anyone who disagrees with and idea can't be trusted to speak objectively
This 2 together actually makes sense. If someone has a obvious bias against something, then you can't expect him to make a clear assessment of something that he did not had any part of.

>>140273682
>I came here for actual discussion and engagement of ideas
You're a bit late, this place has turned to shit, especially in the last few years. /pol/ has more redditors than reddit. That said, I initially mistook you for a Leninist, I read >>140273149 and don't really want to/have much to argue with you. Most of my ire is reserved for bootlicking Marxist-Leninist scum who, coincidentally, are the ones that tend to ignore all arguments and declare victory when people stop replying to their shitty bait.

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>>140277082
>Soros
???

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>>140263909
Shill
Sage in all feilds