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/pol/ - Communism General

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Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage and the socialist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is recommended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm
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>>140102612
Sage
>>
>marxism leninism
Kys

Freedom lives when the state dies.
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>>140102742
Are you afraid of your own creation, Shlomo?
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>>140102612
bump for TO THE STARS
>>
Daily reminder that hating and killing commies is as american as apple pie.
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>>140103251
Thanks, comrade.
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Thanks for ruining my home country, assholes.
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>>140103464
That made no fucking sense. You better go back to the closet.
>>
>>
Finland did nothing wrong, all those commie execusions during our civil war were good. I'd do it myself. You don't need jail when you can just straight up shoot them.
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>>140103691
>Being this unaware of history.
I mean, it DOES explain why you're a communist though.

>>140103772
No lie, this is why I love you autistic fucks. Finland best country.
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>>140102612
Sage
>>
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>>140103946
He probably missed that shot, since most of Finns are drunk degenerates.
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>>140103946
Another one
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>>140104107
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>>140102612
>Spain
>>
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>>140104071
This statistics are bs you are just harming your own agenda
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>>140102612
Brazilian comrade. Should I be pragmatic and vote in 2018 for the social democratic option (The Worker's Party) or should I still belive in the Brazilian Communist Party? I am really afraid that the liberal-conservative (liberal in economics, conservative in the social) candidate wins.

Pic related is the social-democrat guy
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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage four
Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD
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>>140104131
We learned from you, senpai.
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Just got my daily ration of sawdust bread and beans now I can use my 15 minutes of weekly Internet what are you comrades doing?
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>>140104123
Sad, commies never tell the truth.
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>>140102612
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>>140104131
Weak should fear the strong

>>140104526
Warms my heart
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>>140104071
And people that had died because of capitalism, uh?
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Socialism would help with America's obesity problem
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>>140104071
Lies
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>>140104839
When was the last time 7 million were purposely starved by a capitalist dictator again, you retarded faggot? Please remind us, we'll wait.
>>
PIKKURYSSÄT PIETARISSA NÄKEE PAHAA UNTA VENÄJÄ ON RAJAMAA JA SUOMI VALTAKUNTA
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>>140104839
Certainly not as high a number as that you dumb shit.
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>>140104995

What determines value in a Marxist economy?
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>>140104793
I was just going to post that damn photo. Makes me happy friend, my south american country of origin was ruined by commies, no way in hell am I letting them do that here.

Minorities are on the side of the GOMMMIES FUGGGGGGGGG

You ever read up on what he did to get shot in the street like a dog, on live TV?
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Death to postmodernists
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>>140104793
Nice pic. Would replicate.
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>>140104995
Nigger, do you stupid ass communist faggots seriously believe the potato famine was caused by capitalism? My god, you people should write a fucking book this is comedy gold.

>The proximate cause of famine was potato blight,[6] which ravaged potato crops throughout Europe during the 1840s.

You people are incredibly stupid and it's hilarious that you claim to be educated at all. That had nothing to do with capitalism and had everything to do with there not being any fucking potatoes. In a communist country, the elite would just keep all the potatoes that DID exist, even if there was a surplus, and let the workers starve. That literally happened and it was directly a result of communism. You're trying to blame fucking weather patterns and shit on capitalism kek
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>>140105228
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>>140105228
Knowing that Spanish commies had orgies in Chruches, probably something disgusting
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>>140104793
Nothing wrong with a morning stretch. Even the cold can't crush the Communist spirit.
>>
>being the biggest capitalist country in the world
>has hunger and poverty
>a fucking island in the middle of Central America
>no hunger and no poverty at all
http://www.worldhunger.org/hunger-in-america-2016-united-states-hunger-poverty-facts/
http://m.wfp.org/stories/6-facts-about-food-security-in-cuba
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>>140105460
That's some dank memes.
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>>140105495

How do you determine value in a Marxist economy?
>>
How do you measure communism?
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>>140105495
Okay, wait, all shit posting aside, you're meming right, or are you this unaware of history?
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>>140105461
>Knowing that Spanish commies had orgies in Chruches, probably something disgusting
That's sounds great
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>>140105656
By bribes.
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dog dam gommunist benis subbers
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>>140105007
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=xdwZry4V_4MC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=pinochet+hunger+crisis&source=bl&ots=jsSuwMFEVp&sig=BW9HwNS662fpPr4y3Yy_U8zWgk4&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtub-6uInWAhUB2yYKHXgyA8oQ6AEITjAL#v=onepage&q=pinochet%20hunger%20crisis&f=false
Are you ready for some truth?
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>>140105962
>>140105684
>>140105495
>>140104995

Can you tell me how value is determined in a Marxist economy?
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>>140105962
Are you ready to learn how to fucking use google, dumbass?
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>>140106091
They can't friend.
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>>140106091
Can you tell me why in system that "works" 1 billion people in this world are in absolutely poverty?
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>>140104499
Thank you interesting flag anon.
>>
>>140102612
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

A fantastical pitch. Over sell and under deliver. The used-car salesman of ideologies.
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>>140106331
Cite your source, faggot. Then you might get an answer. Also every country "in this world" isn't capitalist clearly so you're just pushing more weak propoganda bullshit.
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>>140106170
Let's not be unreasonable here, they don't even know how to use their brains

>>140106331
Answer the fucking question, with an argument
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>>140106471
Sounds bullet proof to me. Mind pointing out the flaws?

>tip there are known, you stupid fuck
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>>140104499

long live chees slise gomrad XDDDD
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>>140106331

Yeah, the system isn't great. Can you tell me how value is determined in a Marxist economy?
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>>140102612
Potato diets best diets! xDD
Starving is the FUTURE comrades!
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>>140106575
Finanon, they can't. Sadly.

For some reason, every single death right now, is due to capitalism. IT has nothing at all to do with realistic factors. But, obviously, all the deaths under communism BY DESIGN, was just misunderstood accidents.

They want to genocide right leaning people. The only thing that gives me joy, that if they get the commie revolt they want in the USA, that commissar jamal and commissar Cletus, will end up confiscating their shit, and shooting them in the face.

IT happened in my home country of Cuba, I won't let it happen here.
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>>140106595
People. If people didn't pose problems them capital inequality wouldn't be an issue today. Therefore less government and State power are needed. Communism will not sustain without State backing because individuals will create free market systems among themselves and the more entreprenurial among them will create great endeavors that will require him to hire laborers: and laborers will supply because they are not risking their (much lower) capital on the entrepreneurial endeavor in the event that the business goes belly up. Therefore we reintroduce capitalist markets. And whence forth is it communism unless people are pooling their resources together, as opposed to claiming personal property, and redistributing them "according to need"? This ideation is entirely irreconciliable if a state does not exist to force that type of cooperation and prevent free markets which would contradict it from forming; and if a state is made to functionally enforce such a policy, it is already in contradiction with communism: except now that it is a totalitarian model.

Go sniff your bullshit somewhere else, fag.
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>>140106595
>Mind pointing out the flaws?

It doesn't understand human motivation and behaviour.

It's unable to innovate. Other that sputnik what did it accomplish?

It's unable to even meet the basic physiological needs of the people.

The collective suppresses and even destroys individuality.

It will not tolerate dissent.

Proponents keep prescribing the same unworkable solutions and expecting different outcomes. That's the definition of insanity.

Every place it's been implemented the result was misery, oppression, tyranny, and death. Yet let's do so again.
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>>140105817
I mean, seriously is there any communist economic theory?

Capitalism economic theory is very extensively thought out. There is supply and demand, economies of scale, Six Sigma, forecasting, etc. Literally, hundreds of books have been written on the subject.

Forgive me for being ignorant, but are there any books that describe in detail how Communism works and how a communist economy will be able to sustain itself?
>>
Posting in trap sissy cum eating mental illness thread of pol

Can't wait to war up tbqh
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Explain how communists are "liberators" when their doctrine is in direct conflict with more than one level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs. With food and clothing obviously a failure under communism, how do you explain away the failure of Marxism to account for human Self-Actualization when the state pre-plans every decision for them? Sure sounds like the antithesis of freedom and liberty on both a macro and micro level to me.
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>>140107780
This conversation RAPIDLY devolves into commie infighting, last time I had communists intellectually honest enough to actually debate the topic. From my (admittedly) limited understanding, you have everything ranging from (money is evil, everyone will hold hands and trade peacefully with no guiding force from a market or from governmental forces [read command economy]). It ranges that far, and they love to fight among themselves.

What history has repeatedly shown, is that command economies fall flat on their face every fucking time. The new commie hotness is MUH AI CAN SOLVE THIS PROBLEM for us.

That's another hilarious angle that you can attack. Those that are the /r/futurologist faggots, and those that are statist fucks.

A LOT of the commie books that you can source, never go into specifics and just go with "well, this is what ideal humans will do under ideal conditions". I haven't found a good source yet. I'll start googling and update with what I find.

Now, something for you to use against commies in the future, if they break out spook or porkies, or their other buzzwords, ask them to actually define that. I've NEVER had a commie define what a SPOOK is, and I'm still fucking curious to know what a SPOOK is. WHAT IS IT?!?
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>>140107631

https://pastebin.com/LFMagdVr
>>
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>>140108540
A spook? It's just a DS agent. Alphabet orgs, etc. Probably just trying to say "hurrrr you're working for the government to undermine our perfect utopia" when really you're just using common fucking sense. They could also be calling you a nigger. Depends on the context. Nigger, spook, spade, jigaboo.
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>>140107780
See what I'm talking about? Here's a version of the "technology is going to save us" commie. >>140108765

Notice how we're both being ignored, and they have no real rebuttal. It's just MUH TECHNOLOGY IS GONNA SAVE THE WORLD. WE ALL HOLD HANDS AND SING SONGS.
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>>140102612
>>140102892
Shareblue detected. Engaging anti-slide protocols.
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>>140108624
>>140108765
>>140108824
>>140108824
>>140108824
If you're going to make a commie general thread, then answer questions and stop spamming propaganda you enormous faggot. >>140108536
We're waiting.
>>
>>140108624
>>140108765
>>140108824

Can you tell me how value is determined in a Marxist economy?
>>
>>140102612
IGNORE ALL COMMIE THREADS
>in all fields
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>>140108943
>A spook? It's just a DS agent. Alphabet orgs, etc. Probably just trying to say "hurrrr you're working for the government to undermine our perfect utopia" when really you're just using common fucking sense. They could also be calling you a nigger. Depends on the context. Nigger, spook, spade, jigaboo.

Like I said, that only covers 1/3 of the ways I've been called a spook before. I don't even know if THEY know what the term is besides some feeling that it gives them.
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>>140109019

Linear optimizations are sufficient for a planned economy
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>>140109186

How can that be if population growth isn't linear?
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>>140109366
Well that's when you just start genociding people, duh. Come on, gomrabe. What are you stupid or something?
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>>140102612
Degenerate pieces of shit can't wait to kill you commie cunts.
>>
>>140107780
>Forgive me for being ignorant, but are there any books that describe in detail how Communism works
Writing books isn't a priority when youre starving to death.
>>
>>140109088
>Can you tell me how value is determined in a Marxist economy?


You ready for it? If it's useful it has value. If it's not useful it has no value.

By and large, that's the extent of it.
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>>140109580

Who determines whether something has utility? Let's say somebody invents the Snorfblat, a thing which Zeemblifs the shit out of Snapblogs. How do you determine whether it's useful in a Marxist economy?
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>>140109120
Way more fun to fuck with them.

>>140109186
That's LITERALLY JUST BUZZWORDS STRUNG TOGETHER. You are offering no concrete solutions besides literally saying MUH technology and muh mathematics. That's still not how value is determined. You still need a value to then run optimizations, faggot.

>>140109088
I'm gonna keep drinking and try to break it down some, from my economist background.

Basically, it all boils down to them believing that the economic decisions are made by the community as a whole. Which, to me, sounds exactly like the free market, except ... without money? Which means they have no way of determining value, and if they can't determine value, how are they going to plan economic decisions?

Fuck, everything devolves to a command economy. I'm actually curious to know how they think you can define value, but I suspect they're going ot say "because we are now in a eutopia, nothing has value, because everyone owns everything" or some faggotry like that.


>>140109580
WAT
>>
>>140109088

value = the amount of labor time it takes to produce something or training time for a skill
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>>140109810
Wrong value is subjective
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>>140109886
>Wrong value is subjective

Not in a marxist economy
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>>140109810

How far back are we going for that? Are we including that time spent learning to read or developing motor skills as time spent producing or training? Because those are very clearly required labor operations to produce anything or train anyone.

Also, what is an hour of labor worth? Are we even going by an hour as a unit of value, because I have to assume it is since you used time as the basic unit.
>>
Ok since these commie faggots cant seem to answer anything about their ideology because they know it's absolute bullshit, let's check out some other sjws getting their asses handed to them:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uJYSrCD_PaY
>>
Also, hourly reminder that if you're supporting socialism/communism in the US, you're a tool who supports literal pedophiles and child rapists. GG.
>>
>>140109704
>Who determines whether something has utility?

An individual.

>How do you determine whether it's useful in a Marxist economy?

If there's a shortage of it, or it's missing from the shelves entirely, or you have to rely on the blackmarket to obtain it, that's how we know its useful in a communist system. Can't find it? Obviously useful.
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>>140110109
Found this guy not too long ago
Vladimir Jaffe. Former ussr citizen who talks to stupid commies
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3xrOCf2WjtU
>>
>>140109810
I'm honestly curious now. So I have a pineapple patch, it takes me 4 months and like 2-3 hours total, to grow 10 pineapples.

I also craft sex toys on the side. I can put up to 30 hours into carving a wooden dildo.

Which is more valuable?
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>>140109810
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>>140110435
Well, a capitalist would say that their value is subjective and based on what people are willing to pay for them, but under communism their value is based on how much work you put into them and how much utility they have. How Communists manage to put objective value on these objects without ruining the economy, no one knows, not even them.
>>
>>140110349

>An individual.

So...utility differs on the individual? Okay, how does a Marxist economy codify that?

>If there's a shortage of it, or it's missing from the shelves entirely, or you have to rely on the blackmarket to obtain it, that's how we know its useful in a communist system. Can't find it? Obviously useful.

So what if something is brand new and has never been produced before? Because all this tells me is that Marxist economies can tell me the value of things which already exist somewhere.
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>>140110435
>pineapple patch
Not sure but that
The state will force you to work and produce things for the state. Whatever you get in return, be thankful, or the state will kill you.
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Remember to sage
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>>140110792
But that DIRECTLY contradicts the definition of value I was just fed.

value = the amount of labor time it takes to produce something or training time for a skill

I had to learn to wood carve to build dildos, I had to spend lots of time carving to build dildos.

For the pineapples, I just cut the top off and throw it in some dirt, wait a few months, pull weeds once a month, and magically have another pineapple.

By their logic, my hand carved dildos are more valuable.
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>>140110677
>Okay, how does a Marxist economy codify that?

It can't. It claims 'each' needs, yet in real systems where ownership of the means of production what by labour it was unable to meet each needs. So it reality, the individual isn't the primary focus. Produce what the collective has been directed to produce. This is what's produced, and this is what your choice is. Better grab it quick (even for bartering later) before it disappears from the shelves 'cuz it won't be back for a long time.
>>
>>
>>140102612
I said this yesterday, but I need answers.

If you are not from a post soviet country, you're autistic and your opinion is immediately discarded.
>N-NOT REAL COMMUNISM

Communists aren’t people. Communists reject our rights so we reject theirs. Rights must be reciprocated, given communists do not accept our rights we need not bother respecting theirs. Given that communists are historically notorious for their lack of respect for property rights and self-ownership and have been responsible for the greatest mass murders in human history, we can deduce that they do not apply rights such as self-ownership to others or themselves. Furthermore, this means that communists cannot be considered moral agents. One can not be considered a moral agent if one does not have an ability to make a moral judgement. Since these moral relativists reject the notion of morality altogether, we know they are incapable of acting in a moral fashion. In order for rights to exist between two or more beings, there must exist some level of reciprocation of rights. Such is the minimum requirement for one to be considered a moral being. Communists are incapable of reciprocating rights, as they do not believe such things exist. We can thus conclude that communists; being incapable of showing the characteristics of humanity, are therefore–for all intents and purposes–not human, and as such should be treated as dangerous primates.
>>
>>
>>140110677
>So what if something is brand new and has never been produced before?

Really? Other than sputnik what communist system innovation/creation/invention came?

We can find thousands and thousands in capitalist systems. Give me 10 inventions that orginated from the communist systems.
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>>140111611
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>>140111991
Free food!
>>
Labour Theory of Value (LTV):

Non arguments:

>If I dig a hole in my backyard and then fill it in I used labor but made no value! Commies BTFO!

Marx clarified (unlike adam smith) that only socially nessary labor (labor used to produce a commodity with use value) creates value. This is also the case if you spend 1000 years making a bed.

>Nature can create value as well. If an apple falls from a tree then value is created without labor

Marx also noted nature could create value.

>if labor determines price why is coca cola cheaper than bottled water?

Labor doesn't determine price. It determines value (not exchange value or use value) and correlates with the equilibrium price. Supply and demand determine price.

Machines cannot create value. If I make a machine that makes diamonds out of thin air then the value of a diamond falls below that of bricks now that they can be aquired with no work what so ever. Price might not fall because you can still manipulate supply and demand but value certainly does.

Some definitions.

Use value = How useful an object is.
Exchange value = Market value of a commodity. Different from use value. You can sell a beanie baby for 200$ but it is almost completely useless.
Value = the amount of congealed labor withing a commodity.


Some evidence of the LTV
http://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/eea97.pdf
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>>140112044
No socks, no shoes.
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>>140111611
>>140111818
Remember to sage, friends
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>>140111175
There is no free market though. The state would make you grow food or something. You would be shot for carving dildos all day because they are not needed or valued as much as food. Cmon dude, dont use their "logic". Bc everyone will be starving under communism. Also pineapples grow on trees, pumpkin patch maybe is what you meant?
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>>140112117
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>>140112117
>No socks, no shoes.

Who needs socks and shoes when one has feet!? They'll take you where you need to go.
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>>140112222
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>>140112222
Nice quads
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>>140112108
Why can commies never spell correctly?


So what is more valuable? My dildos or my pineapples?

BOTH are socially necessary labor. One is created from tons of labor, which means tons of value. The other is created from no labor.

So, what is it?

>>140112189
Even their hypothetical economic system can't explain a simple thought experiemnt.
>>
>>140112389
*experiment.
>>
>>
>>140108540
Thanks. I actually didn't expect a good answer.

I have heard the same thing from communist that communism will work in the future, and that technology is the key.

My argument is that an economic system should be able to stand on its own without relying on something external such as technology, because once that is taken away the economic system would collapse.

That said, I'm not against the idea of communism; it's that it doesn't seem that there is a practical way achieve it without collapsing on itself.
Which is why I think that a "communist" society eventually leads to an authoritarian state in order to try to prevent the collapse.

I think that communist have a gambler's mentality where the end justify the means. They'll keep gambling hoping for the big payoff that will never come.
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>>140112570
>I have heard the same thing from communist that communism will work in the future, and that technology is the key.

Correct. It's always the promise that utopia is right around the corner once all the needed automation to replace the human workers arrives. Until then... slave away for the collective.

As I said before: Over promise under deliver. In a capitalist system a company can't away with that for long unless it's a monopoly. Under communism the entire system must collapse to regain sanity.
>>
I'll pose my question for the third time:

Explain how communists are "liberators" when their doctrine is in direct conflict with more than one level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs. With food and clothing obviously a failure under communism, how do you explain away the failure of Marxism to account for human Self-Actualization when the state pre-plans every decision for them?

I thought this was commie general but they don't seem to know much at all about Marxism at all. Kind of reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LeJPV5WLak

Indoctrinated and no critical thinking skills at all.
>>
>>140104499

The only good thing about this shit thread is a fine addition to my flag collection. Thanks.

Kill all commie fucks.
>>
And if you notice something about the communist systems, they never developed any automation on their own to replace those workers and give them that promised free time and quality of life.

The communists relied on stealing capitalist inventions and innovations. And even with the capitalists doing the hard R&D and making the investments, the communists couldn't copy it proficiently. It was just layers and layers of incompetence.
>>
>>140112389
>Even their hypothetical economic system can't explain a simple thought experiemnt.
Lol I know. It sounds so nice on paper. But start quizzing one of them about how a simple small business would work and logic goes out the window. Communism does not and will never work. Try not to stress too much about an impossible idea
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>>140113537

Why do you expect them commies to give you an answer? All commies know to do is critique capitalism, because through history they failed to make a proper replacement.

Are you expecting honesty from them? They are so fucking retarded and full of themselves that they are uncapable of proper discussion. Communism is inheritely made to fail because Marx was a kike who wanted to destroy the western world. That's why they resort to violence, intimidation and terrorist attacks to get power and then they use opression to keep themselves in power, nobody with a brain wants communism.

If you seriously expect them to answer your questions, they wont, they will use a logical fallacy and pretend you didn't ask shit to feel validated about themselves because they have zero fucking clue of how a proper system works.
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>>140104233
Leftists truly can't meme. Everything is stolen from the right.
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>>140114177

It's because these fools have never owned a business and can't understand what it takes to be successful. They're over educated losers.

They have a child's idea of business. Open a store and reap the riches. That's how it works.
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>>140105160
Use
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>>140105400
Hmm...is it just a coincidence that the capitalist class of Britain decided to continue with the wholesale export of food from Ireland despite the famine conditions present on the island?
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>>140114489
They think about capitalism and all these corporations with like their billions of dollarsmannnnn and like they just hoard all the money from the people. I'm sounding like some retarded hippie already. Most of the wage desparities and equality issues come not from the free market but big overbearing government. Their solution: more government
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>>140114615
It was a mix of natural environmental problems paired with agricultural feudalism under a monarchy, not capitalism, and certainly not free-market capitalism. To laud it as "a problem with capitalism" shows you're either in possession of a very simple mind, are uneducated, have no problem with lying outright or any combination of the three. You do realize that capitalism replaced feudalism, correct? Now let's get to my other questions genius.
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>>140114615
>the capitalist class
What does this mean? Are corporations not owned by the people? Anyone can buy shares in a big company
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>>140115346
>they just hoard all the money from the people.

You mean they don't have giant room filled with piles of cash collecting dust?

That doesn't sound right. Surely they're hiding the money from the people.
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>>140116018
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>>140116073
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>>140116158
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>>140116217
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>>140116277
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>>140116342
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>>140114177
>>140114343
>>140114489

Look at how many times I've asked my question, look at how little they ignore it.

Like, we can take the same question, what has more value?
Canning meat, or making Holland and Holland rifles? One takes infinitesimally more skill, training, specialized machines, and talent. What's more valuable?

Under the rules proposed earlier in this thread, it'd be botique rifles, obviously?

It strikes me, that in their zeal to get rid of the concept of money and "price", they've lost the ability to debate the difference in "value" as in how much money someone will pay, or how it is seen (Holland and Holland rifles are fucking works of art and worth every penny of 120k if you can afford one), but being able to can meat, IS more valuable in the sense that it is a straight up necessity for a country to not starve to death.
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>>140116420
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>>140116477
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>>140116073

Of course it kills. When you promise utopia and fail to deliver people tend to get upset. They've given up their liberty for... nothing. When you promise needs will be met and people can't get soap and toilet paper the credibility of the system is cast into doubt.

When needs aren't met the easiest way to meet needs is to reduce the population. Get rid of the malcontents. But, stupidly, the communists got rid of their most productive and innovative people. Shucks.
>>
who would win?
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>>140102612
Better dead than red pinko!
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>>140116465
>Look at how many times I've asked my question, look at how little they ignore it.

I know. I asked for 10 communist inventions. Marx stated these innovations must happen to automate the factories thereby freeing labour and giving them the prosperity they earned and deserved.

Zilch.
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>>140116018
>>140116073
>>140116158
>>140116217
>>140116277
>>140116342
>>140116420
>>140116477
>>140116523
Quit spamming propaganda and address the questions that have been asked ITT faggot. Why are you avoiding them this much? It's pathetic.
>>
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>>140116958
What question?
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>>140117048
Are you this new you can't scroll up through the thread? I pasted it 3 times.
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>>140116958

Because he hasn't found a cartoon that can answer those questions.
>>
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>>140117113
Just quote it faggot, it would be quicker and easier than writing that
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>>140117048
>What question?

This is how the Kommie Kommisars answered the workers questions.

Ask again and it's the gulag for ya.
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>>140117207
Scroll up faggot I'm too busy at the moment obviously. You want actual discourse about your ideology then let's have at it don't be a lazy piece of shit.
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>>140117207
You still haven't answered my questions either. How are you this intellectually lazy?
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>>140116761
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>>140117339
This
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Yeah you haven't answered the other anons questions either. Are you an intellectual infant? I'm starting to wonder.
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>>140117341
busy spamming? okay then

This question? >>140113537
>when their doctrine is in direct conflict with more than one level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs
Explain how marxism is conflict?
>the state pre-plans every decision for them?
Wrong
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>>140117450
I'm only one person anon, give me more than a minute faggot
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>>140102612
Communism is cancer.
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>>140102612
Go back to soviet union u communist piece of shit.
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>>140117693
I've directly asked you, twice, and was ignored.
Thrice now.
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>>140117484
I honestly would rather be dead than a backwards zog controlled commie.
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>>140117876
Not the same poster, I just came in this thread
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>>140102612
Only self-entitled, lazy, envious and quite frankly mentally ill losers are drawn to communism. How's it feel being at the bottom of hierarchy with everyone looking down and laughing at you, like the little loser that you are?

I will even bet that you're such a loser that you've tried to kill yourself multiple times throughout your miserable life.
>>
>>140117693
Since you're the only reddie replying, mind replying to my post as well? >>140111611
>>
>>140117962
Why do communists always lie? We have ID's here, I've interacted with you, and you interacted with me, up thread.

I guess I'm done here. This is why you'll keep failing, being this intellectually dishonest.
>>
50 U.S. Code § 842 - Proscription of Communist Party, its successors, and subsidiary organizations

The Communist Party of the United States, or any successors of such party regardless of the assumed name, whose object or purpose is to overthrow the Government of the United States, or the government of any State, Territory, District, or possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein by force and violence, are not entitled to any of the rights, privileges, and immunities attendant upon legal bodies created under the jurisdiction of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof; and whatever rights, privileges, and immunities which have heretofore been granted to said party or any subsidiary organization by reason of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof, are terminated.

But enjoy your shitty Stalin memes.
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>>140117693
Why are you the only commie trying to argue your point? Is it because the others know they can't?
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>>140118143
>I've interacted with you, and you interacted with me, up thread.
What? This was my first post >>140116632
What is your question? The one about pineapples and dildos?
>>
>>140116943

Look at this ridiculous cartoon.

Firstly, the owner will go out of business if he can't sell his goods. That happens. Thankfully it's the owner's money that's lost and not mine, the taxpayer's. His factory will be bought by some other fella who hopefully is more astute. Secondly, he had to purchase more inputs to increase production, which means other workers at other factories had to supply these. They were paid and now may spend that according to their needs. Perhaps they'll buy the first factory owner's stuff and he can resume production albeit with more realistic targets.
>>
a-are Syndicalists welcome here?
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>>140117643
>Self actualization: acceptance of facts
>Marxism literally preaches for an end to objectivity, seeks to propagandize history, and destroy social norms (currently in the form of trying to "normalize" transgenderism, pedophilia, and other degeneracy).
Explain how those two are not in conflict with one another.

>Self-actualization; creativity
>communism actively and fiercely stifles innovation by excluding the risk/reward scenario in comparison to capitalism
>communism, in every instance, has destroyed art, even art 100s of years old, because it's seen as a distraction to the worker
I could go on and on and on but you know what I was asking and you've tried to dodge the question entirely.

I guess I could ask it in a more plain way to dumb it down for you, are you just okay with being a habitual liar or do you honestly think that communists seek to "liberate the worker" from anything when every instance of it being applied in the real world has resulted in slavery to the state?
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>>140118537
Sure
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>>140102612
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liguidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

-----------------------------------------
Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis

>Sdage for
Not real gommunism. Move on do nexd coundry XDDdDDD
BoL
GALLY
>>
>>140116958
>Quit spamming propaganda
You mean like /nsg/, /ptg/ and the now-defunct /lrg/ always do?
/mlg/ is a thread for the discussion and the PROMOTION of an ideology, which includes propaganda.
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>>140118167
Communism is so dangerous that there are laws against it. Anti human commies should be in jail. This thread is evidence of their insane illogical thinking.
>>
>>
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>>140118659
Solidarity comrade
>>
>>140118632
>>communism actively and fiercely stifles innovation by excluding the risk/reward scenario in comparison to capitalism
I don't believe this is true, under communism people would not be alienated from their work and the results of this work. Risk/reward is not the only thing that drives innovation. Look at the amount of research and progress made by public funding under captialism right now
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this is what a top-tier poster on communism general looks like
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>>140118827
Bwahaha the fucking dude said the answer questions and you bitch about /nsg/ instead. Commies, in a nutshell.
>>
>>140118167
Good thing I'm not American. Land of the free indeed
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>>140118992
>Risk/reward is not the only thing that drives innovation.
It may not be the only thing, but it's the main thing. To avoid that is just pure stupidity. How many major inventions in the past 200 years were made entirely free of capital from investors and purely by a person with altruistic intentions? Because that's what you're arguing right now: That people would innovate MORE and be MORE creative, invent MORE things without the incentive of great reward for the risk they're taking upon themselves or the backing of people with capital also shouldering some of that risk. Do you understand how retarded you sound right now? I don't give a fuck how altruistic you think you are, altruism doesn't run the world, even in theory, and that's precisely why everyone thinks you people are idiots.
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>>140118944
When the revolution comes, you'll be the ones hitting the ground.
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>>140102612
How are you doing, fellow comrades?
>>
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>>140119455
It is now time to move out of your mom's basement and start the glorious revolution.
Good luck!
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>>140119418
>an ancap neckbeard talking about revolution

>implying that you would survive in the terrible madmax nightmarish hellworld that your ideology would create

You're so close to being good ancap bro, just read a little more.
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>>140119557
>implying this is bad.

I never understood the right's obsession with letting capitalists do whatever the fuck they want but stopping people from being able to fuck each other in the ass.

how does someone being gay hurt you? Genuine question
>>
>>140119387
>How many major inventions in the past 200 years were made entirely free of capital from investors
Lots. Microchips, the internet, almost all modern science

>If government were to leave it to the private sector to pay for basic research, most science would come to a screeching halt. What research survived would be done largely in secret, for fear of handing the next big thing to a rival. In that situation, Einstein might never have felt the need to finish his greatest work.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/basic-science-can-t-survive-without-government-funding/

>incentive of great reward for the risk they're taking upon themselves
Wrong, if this were the case nobody would become a scientist. Believe me
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>>140119852
Did I say anything about two bears sucking on dick lollipops was bad? How did I imply that at all? You're projecting like a motherfucker right now, are you a closeted faggot or something? Genuine question.
>>
>>140119867
basically this. Most "innovations" in startup culture come from a bedrock of gov funded research. There doesnt need to be profit motive for people to be innovative, lol
>>
>>140119867
Microchips, internet. So you can name 2 things from the past 200 years that were created because of altruism? I'm not even going to address the "hurrr almost all modern science" because it's so vague and full of shit it doesn't warrant it. Let's see those sources that say both the internet and microchips were invented by an individual for purely altruistic reasons. We'll wait. Because I can guarantee they weren't.
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>>140118992
>>>communism actively and fiercely stifles innovation by excluding the risk/reward scenario in comparison to capitalism
>I don't believe this is true,

Marx clearly states that innovation, especially that of means-of-production automation is a must. This is to free labour.

Other that sputnik, name me 10 inventions that originated in a communist country. An AK-47 is not one because the assault rifle was invented in a capitalist country. If the AK-47 were the first assault rifle this would be a legitimate innovation, so I'd count that.

Examples of inventions: lightbulb, aeroplane, wireless radio, telegraph, computer, radar, EKG, etc.
>>
>>140119680
An-coms will have nail-bombs, molotovs, and Khaleshnikovs. We will have mines, grenades, and M4's.
>>
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>>140120146
I never argued there would be "no innovation at all", I said it would be stifled. The other anon tried to argue there would be a positive gain if you took our capital investors, investor angels, and people willing to take risks for the potential payoff of massive rewards and that's just factually fucking wrong. You people are such enormous idiots it hurts to even watch your little cult jerking each other off like anything true or even intelligent is being said. Goddamn you people are absolutely retarded in all honesty.
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>>140120357
>especially that of means-of-production automation is a must. This is to free labour.
Well interestingly we will be seeing a huge rise in automation in the workplace in the coming years.
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>>140120590
I'd love to see the death-toll for my home-town here in Iceland. It was the first town to turn communist in Iceland, but since everyone loves communism so much here, the data on that period is pretty muddled.
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We want to achieve a new and better order of society: in this new and better society there must be neither rich nor poor; all will have to work. Not a handful of rich people, but all the working people must enjoy the fruits of their common labour. Machines and other improvements must serve to ease the work of all and not to enable a few to grow rich at the expense of millions and tens of millions of people. This new and better society is called socialist society. The teachings about this society are called 'socialism'.
– Vladimir Lenin, "To the Rural Poor" (1903)
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>>140121052
>64 posts
wew
Imagine being this triggered
>>
>>140120286

You ought not so readily agree. The microchip was invented by Texas Instruments and also, independently and at about the same time at Fairchild Semiconductor Corporation.

Next, "the internet" is a series of developments from HTML to IP address and DHCP, DNS to HTTP. Some of these were government funded and others funded privately.
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>>140121057
>"in this new and better society there must be neither rich nor poor, comrade."
>proceeds to be Trump-tier rich and fuck over every worker in the country.
kek you can't make this shit up it's just too hilarious that people still buy this absolute tripe. It's funny because it's really happened over and over again and kids are so fucking stupid they think it will ever be different. You're a cuck to the state because you're a failure at life, just admit it.
>>
>>140121251
>The idea of the integrated circuit was conceived by Geoffrey Dummer (1909–2002), a radar scientist working for the Royal Radar Establishment of the British Ministry of Defence. Dummer presented the idea to the public at the Symposium on Progress in Quality Electronic Components in Washington, D.C. on 7 May 1952.[6] He gave many symposia publicly to propagate his ideas and unsuccessfully attempted to build such a circuit in 1956.
>>
>>140116943
You do understand in your gay little picture, if the Capitalists surplus product doesn't sell, he must eat the cost of Making the product in the first place.
>>
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>>140121251
I was "giving" those 2 because I wanted to see if these commie retards could actually post proof of anything they said which is why i followed up with "cite where you found that information." As usual, they fall flat on their face every time.
>>
>>140121057
"I enjoy penises in my mouth. I enjoy penis in my every hole. It is penis, not communism that keeps my gut warm during the winters." - Lenin
>>
>>140121148
>wew
>Imagine being this triggered

Everyone, see this ruse for what it is. He can't rebut so he has to resort to ad homs.

Communists are amongst the most unprincipled numbskulls out there.
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>>140121057
>>
>>140121544

Okie dokie. Apologies.
>>
>>140121607
>He can't rebut so he has to resort to ad homs.
What? He is just spamming pictures lol
>>
>>140121544
Here you go
http://www2.itif.org/2014-federally-supported-innovations.pdf
Still a small sample but I'm sure you get the point
>>
>>140121767
he is spamming pictures so the thread will hit the image limit
daily reminder
kys
>>
>>140121958
>he is spamming pictures so the thread will hit the image limit
Classic autistic behaviour. I don't need to post pictures. He is also bumping.
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>>140122124
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>>140122124
Better to be producing paint then food amrite my gommie friends :DDDDDDDD
>>
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>muh alienation
>muh exploitation
back to the factory you were assigned to work, comrade. We will only achieve true communism once the entire world is communist (lol) and we reach the post-scarcity stage of production (which is a priori impossible because resources are limited and humans will always compete for them)

Eat shit commies
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>>140102612
>>
>>140121427
>unsuccessfully attempted to build such a circuit in 1956.

This is why the two fellas working at those two companies I mentioned previously each have a patent.
>>
another thing, the LTV is bullshit and the vast majority of non-orthodox academic economists (including Marxian ones) abandoned it long ago
>>
>>140122446
>which is a priori impossible because resources are limited
Hence why capitalism is doomed
>>
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>>140105495
When will you leftists ever learn
>>
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>>140122607
In the long run we're all dead. The best thing to do is accelerate growth to fund tech so that we can extend our existence as long as possible.
>>
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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of rebolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism aggording to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage four
Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD
>>
>>
>>
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>>140122833
lmao at you having this picture saved
>>
>>140122794
>>140122767
>>140122727
>>140122833
>>140122889
You should post interracial cuck porn. Normal gay porn is far too masculine, and commies basically just want to take the white man down in the name of the niggers

>boo hoo hoo muh income inequality :^( whitey pay for my gibs
>>
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>>140118944
>>
>>140102612
I have a question for the communists.

I write furry smut as a hobby and was wondering what a commie would say before or while being brutally raped.
>>
>>140102612
>Communism is a stage of society in which . . .


. . . Everything went straight to hell and the plebes decided everyone must be poor and powerless.
>>
>>140123468
>I write furry smut
I can believe that
>>
>>140123574
huh?
>>
>>140123618
Can you answer my question or does the lack of property mean there is no such thing as rape
from your pov?
>>
>>140123895
>Can you answer my question
>commie would say before or while being brutally raped.
same as anyone else, why don't you go look up some rape porn
>>
>>140124039
Oh, so this is where you run out of rhetoric? Interesting.
>>
>>140124198
Sure
>>
Im so glad its illegal to form a communist party or be a member of one in the US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954
>>
>>140123791
>huh?


Short for plebian, idiot. More slangy than accurate, moronic commie fanboy.
>>
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Saged
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>>140124561
Unconstitutional and unforced

>In 1973 a federal district court in Arizona decided that the act was unconstitutional and Arizona could not keep the party off the ballot in the 1972 general election (Blawis v. Bolin). In 1961 the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the act did not bar the party from participating in New York's unemployment insurance system
>>
>>140109810
Marx realised that the marginal revolution invalidated the core of his work, that's why he never finished parts 2 and 3 of Capital.
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