horseshoe theory

Evil doesn't think they're right either, they're deceivers

>>140083299
Go back to kindergarten you brainless faggot.

ok great post good to know what a wonderful thread i really needed someone to tell me what to think because common sense is so difficult

you are so r/iamverysmart, please drop more knowledge bombs, O Great 17 Year Old

i lurv (((u all.))) now gib be money.

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>>140083382
>>140083430
>it's so obvious how i'm wrong that you're stupid for pointing it out

>>140083299
go pray to your kike on a stick retard christcuck

>>140083299
Reacting to evil can and will, under proper circumstances, turn into violence and murder. Killing enemies is still murder, you only justify it as necessary given the previous context. If you maintain the war for long enough, you risk forgetting who the enemy actually is and start slaughtering people wholesale - which brings you aaaaaall the way back on the other end of the horseshoe: there will be no fundamental difference between your homicidal actions and the actions that spurred your crusade or righteousness.

>>140083618
>not understanding that resorting to ad hominem, based on a presumption no less, only makes you look like an idiot
https://pastebin.com/eaEGgUa3

>>140083299
horseshoe theory is stupid because conservatives and liberals have a different view of what they want society to be.

it is correct though in some ways, if you believe in equality and voting rights for everyone you are a progressive even if you didn't realize it.

>>140083615
what am i even wrong about you braindead faggot?

>>140083986
horseshoe theory, unless your raging like a literal retard on a tard rage is unprovoked..

Red paint and blue paint are the same because they're both paint.

But being serious, the people who espouse it really need to explain what possible comparison an "identity" formed in a gender studies class has with my 1,500+ year old inherited identity as an Englishman.

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>>140083299
>dualistic good vs evil worldview

>>140084084
I didnt even present an arguement so how the fuck can i be wrong about it you stupid piece of shit.

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>>140083299

>>140084103
>putting a lot of value and stock in ""Identity"" in the first place.

That's what they have in common, all else is derivative narrative nonsense from that standpoint. Anyone who makes a big deal of their supposed identity instead of their merits and accomplishments is compensating a lack of the latter through some externalized bullshit story they tell themselves to excuse their failure.

>>140084157
They, whomever they are, think they're good and their opposition is evil. Then again, I think I agree with the fpbp -- that the objectively evil knows they're evil.
>>140084227
>what is implication
You don't have to explicitly state things in order to be wrong, idiot. You've left me to try to figure out why you are whining and namecalling like a little bitch boy; so far, I've ascertained it is because you are a proponent of horseshoe theory, and, being that I've repeatedly shown you to be stupid, I doubt you'll be admitting it.

>>140084409
whoever* I think

>>140084409
Well maybe get some reading comprehension and stop being a poofty little cunty faggot because I think horseshoe theory is retarded , just like you.

Fucking moron stop posting

>>140084530
>I've repeatedly shown you to be stupid

*LE TIPS FEDORA*
*ADJUSTS BOWTIE CLASSILY*
*PICKS UP SWORD-CANE AND SWEEPS OUT OF ROOM*

>>140084409
What if ""evil"" just rationalizes their impulses to be both self-serving and good? It's not like there is an overseeing arbiter, the whole concept of "good" vs "evil" is subjective nonsense, do you see animals bother with these grandiose fictional concepts? They just act on impulse and humans aren't much different at all, most aren't primarily thinkers, they feel first of all and then rationalize in whatever convenient twists they need to excuse their feeling.

>>140084282
Commies are Global Socialists.

Fascists are National Socialists.

They both hold the same core value of Collectivism.

>>140083299
remember the faggot that pushes this theory also claimed this phenomena as his own law: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sargon%27s%20law

>>140084530
It doesn't take much reading comprehension to notice your incessant whining. The most rational explanation is it is because you are a proponent of horseshoe theory. Even if you weren't, calling someone stupid because they've pointed out something people don't understand (that horseshoe theory is even a thing implies this) is... stupid.

>>140084344
That's an odd thing to say with that flag attached.

>>140084724
so do communities and ethnic groups.
Trying to make a natural human behaviour some kind of 'sin' in your ideology is retarded.

>>140084910

The problem arises when people try to force or coerce the Individual into sacrificing for the greater good of the Collective.

>>140083299
Whence cometh evil? If not from Man, then from Ego. Where in nature, does the prey see the predator as evil? Or necessary? Where deceivers spread lies, fault them or those that buy the lies? Think.

>>140084772
this whole post is fucking retarded

>>140085024
If one person is fucking everything up for 10 people, the 10 people will force the one to change or remove them.This is basic social stuff.

>>140085192
But the only thing that is making those people "right" is their mob rule.

Its not based in reason. Its totally senseless.

>>140083299
>one end of the horseshoe is good, the other is evil
well that's where you've fucked up

>>140084787
Facism/nationalism and collectivism is fascinating, nothing quite demonstrates the power of social cohesion, morale and a common interest in making each individual stronger instead of competing with each other and keeping the populace divided against each other. Both the soviet union and Nazi Germany rose from destitute nations to heavily industrialized world powers in merely a decade. Collectivism has both very appealing merits and significant problems, just as individualism.

The lack of social cohesion in modern society is what makes it look appealing to many, especially those who have failed to achieve their wants individually on their own merits. They are all to eager to compensate and place the blame on some spook.

"Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all." -- Soviet Premier Nikita S. Khrushchev, addressing the 20th Congress of the Soviet Communist Party, 2-25-56

"The unity of a nation's spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the spirit and will of an individual; and that the higher interests involved in the life of the whole must here set the limits and lay down the duties of the interests of the individual." -- Adolph Hitler

"We need to stop worrying about the rights of the individual and start worrying about what is best for society." -- Hillary Clinton

"...we understand only the individual's capacity to make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow men." -- Adolf Hitler, 10-7-33

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." -- Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, June 28, 2004.

"To be a socialist is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole." -- Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda, National Socialist German Workers' ("Nazi") Party

>>140083299
An example of horseshoe theory would that Anita Sarkessian and Gamergaters are equally as annoying faggots

>>140085280
The mob is only right or wrong in the context of the laws of the system they are in and the morals of their society/public opinion. The mob used it's will to power to exact the change it desired. Total supression of angry mobs leads to 1984 slave society. Allowing your people to be exploited by individuals is also not based in reason.

>good reacts to evil

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

― C.S. Lewis

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>>140083669
Exactly.

If horseshoe theory wasn't a thing we wouldn't have this, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/StormfrontorSJW/

>>140085757
Who are you to speak for the individual who willingly lets himself be exploited? You would not allow him his own agency just because it does not suit your ideological fantasy society?

>>140083669
>If you kill your enemies, they win

>>140086086
who are you to speak for your daughter when the pimp sells her on a street corner?
You would not allow her own agency just because it does not suit your ideological fantasy society?

>>140085757
America became great because we enacted laws that protected the Individual and not the Mob.

The Opposite of what you guys do.

>>140083299
Can anyone show me a real life example of the horseshoe theory that's anywhere nearly as retarded as the memes that strawman it?

>>140086267
and your stubbornness to stick to individualistic ideals in the face of globalism is why the collective brown masses are about to outnumber you

>>140086213
"The individual" did not ask for your brotherly love and heroic advocacy of his rights, in fact they are quite weary and unwilling of your speaking on their behalf, they don't give a damn for your "brave" interference of their exploitation so long as they have their primary needs and comforts met, which is the case in modern western society. It is quite an appealing exploitation, why are you so concerned anyway? What grandiosity are you trying to achieve and why should anyone care so long as they aren't dying, starving, homeless, sick or miserable?

>>140086384
not really because all real life examples are pretty fucking retarded

>>140086417
Racist.

>>140086534
AHHHH HE USED THE WORD
HISSS
AHH IT BURNNSSSS
IM MELLLLTINNNN
GGGGG
ggggg
aaaa
nooooo

>>140086534
thats what your kids will be called by gangs of blacks as they beat the shit out of them and rape them. 'Racists' are the new 'niggers' in the US.

>>140084282
>Adhering to failed ideologies is bad
>adhering to the system you grew up in that's proven to work is cowardly

This is anti-progressive because you're pushing for old, outdated ideas instead if some hot new shit. It's anti-conservative because you are rejecting tried and true tradition in favor of a utopian ideal that always fails or leads to abject misery.

There's your horseshoe theory, both sides are demonstrably retarded

>>140086510
>Stop speaking out for your countrymen goyim!
>They will be slaves for us forever!
Fuck off shlomo. Go take your moral relativism back to Israel. If we see wrong in our lands against our people we call it out so it doesn't spread over our land like a plague. One day it's a random guy off the street being fucked over the next it's you and yours...

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>>140086624
"Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals." - Ron Paul

>>140086876
I made this meme to troll everyone desu kek.

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>>140087034
>Moral relativism
Morality is a subjective convenience which prevents societal collapse, it has no objective merit. It's convenient bullshit that exists only as a shared belief. All you want is for people to believe some other grand narrative that better suits you.

The whole good vs evil dynamic is bullshit. People who talk of good and evil more often than not have little understanding of their own capacity for evil, they believe they are good, both sides of the horse shoe believe they are the good fighting the evil. The further you move from the centre on the horse shoe you will find more and more people who are willing to go further and further to defeating what they percieve as"evil". The further you go the more similar each side seems because these people buy so heavily into the good vs evil paradigm, they become so dogmatic, so fanatic, they are willing to sacrafice more and more freedom in the name of security.

We need to move beyond good and evil.

>>140087459
>prevents societal collapse,
> it has no objective merit.
ok shlomo

>>140087459
Physics governs what can be done. Morality governs what should be done.

It could be argued that it is subjected in this manner, for it consists of 'good' and 'bad', however this assumes that we must think within ourselves subjectively, and not on man in the third person objectively.

Understanding man is a science, and if morality follows from such, then morality is objective. This is also true if it's thought of as a guide to social relationships.

Also muh God, however this only holds water if you're not an atheist.

>>140087181
Nicely done. It's close enough to what some retards actually think that it looks pretty sincere

>>140088048
*subjective in this manner

>>140083669
Killing is wrong so we should let evil kill us

>>140087459
>prevents society collapse
>no objective merit

>>140087065
if collectivism is required to ensure the existence of the white race, so be it. Being individuals while the other races are sticking together is killing us.

>>140087676
>>140088605
Let me rephrase that.
From the individuals standpoint it is not in his own best interest to play by the rules of morality, it is best for the individual to ruthlessly attain power, wealth and as much offspring as possible to secure his dynasty. It is only in his interest to adhere to morality as it suits him.

If everyone would do this there would be no society left but which individuals willingly sacrifice themselves for 'the greater good'?
Logically they shouldn't if it isn't most advantageous.

>>140083299
You're mistaken (as are a lot of people) about what horseshoe theory actually is. All horseshoe theory says is that as you get further to the left or right you will tend to become more authoritarian. People who say the extreme left and right are the same mean they are both authoritarian. They use the same means to push their ideologies, even if the ideologies are different.

Horseshoe theory is based on acts not on goals. Two different groups may act similar in some ways but the outcome will be different.

>>140086092
>>140088551
Missing the point entirely: neither of you challenged the idea that there is no real difference between straight up murder of a stranger and the bulk murdering of civilians by a regime purporting to be "cleansing" society of "evil" people.
Evil exists, it's real: dealing with it may require an even greater evil. Not doing anything is death, kill the evil ones is death also - killing EVERYONE that disagrees with you is also evil.
Ideally, you should stop at the bottom of the horseshoe and prune all tendencies to spiral up, especially if they claim righteousness.

>>140089312
>prune all tendencies
would you kill them to prevent them spiraling up?

>>140088891
The individuals have to ruthlessly attain power within the system which was built on men cooperating and compromising. The less intelligent of the ruthless individuals are killed or exiled by the society, the more intelligent ones rose to create systems within the system to protect themselves and their dynasty.

>>140088608
Collectivism isnt required.

Hitler tried that and Failed.

Let us try our idea next. Gnostics have a plan forming to defeat them.

>>140089876
>Gnostics have a plan forming to defeat them
let's hear it.

>>140089478
What that would suggest is for humanity to cease being... human. Only ant-like drones will be able to conform to a neutral stance on things: humans are opinionated and passionate about things.
See the rise of white nationalism in the US, as a reaction to the decades-old incursion of communism in the universities and media. They would literally prefer Nazis over Bolsheviks, although both end up in rivers of blood from their own countrymen, one side due to racial and ethnic reasons while the other uses social and economic arguments.
I see no way to eliminate the tendency of people to gravitate towards collectivism other than essentially lifting every individual, making humans become the true opposite of the drones I mentioned above. And that will be really hard - in the meantime, we can continue killing one another.

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>>140083299
>2017
>believing in the mainstream extremism theory
There is good extremism and bad extremism.

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>>140090033
You already know the general outline.

>>140090045
>lifting every individual, making humans become the true opposite of the drones
The only way would be eugenics, Genetic engineering or combining ourselves with AI then. Tranhumanism.

>>140090184
hmm the NWO mass extermination plan seems like it would probably end up with a slave class serving a tiny neo-monarchy. It's stepping backwards into a re-branded collectivism.

>>140084724
How wrong are you.
Socialist are from the left, a form of Democratic government. Socialism is capitalist.
Communism is a tyranny, is from the right.

Facism is from Italy, it is different from the Nazi in all aspects.

Collectivism was implemented by Stalin in The soviet Union. Not the others three.

>>140090299
Or the actually harder path suggested by Jordan Peterson in his lectures. There is a way to make yourself into the best form that you can be, and some directions are like these:
>Tell the truth.
>Do not do things that you hate.
>Act so that you can tell the truth about how you act.
>Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient.
>If you have to choose, be the one who does things, instead of the one who is seen to do things.
>Pay attention.
>Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you need to know. >Listen to them hard enough so that they will share it with you.
>Plan and work diligently to maintain the romance in your relationships.
>Be careful who you share good news with.
>Be careful who you share bad news with.
>Make at least one thing better every single place you go.
>Imagine who you could be, and then aim single-mindedly at that.
>Do not allow yourself to become arrogant or resentful.
>Try to make one room in your house as beautiful as possible.
>Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today.
>Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens.
>If old memories still make you cry, write them down carefully and completely.
>Maintain your connections with people.
>Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or artistic achievement.
>Treat yourself as if you were someone that you are responsible for helping.

There are more, of course, but do try some of them out.

>>140090551
When you come to Gnosis you see we are all Sovereign.

The Light of the Gnostic Lucifer will be brought to mankind. Shining down from the Pleroma where the Aeons reside.

The Archons or the Rulers will all be crushed.

>>140090925
kek

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>>140091053
Yes Kek.

An Aeon of the Ogdoad.

One of the Eightfold.

One of the Four Luminaries who come in their male and female aspects.

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>>140083299
look up fishhook theory retard

>>140090774
we've been teaching these virtues and wisdoms for generations and generations.
We created a monster that has been tearing them all down.
We have to slay the beast once and for all before we can rebuild the village.

Philosophical reductionism like Horseshoe Theory are the weapon of choice of idiots who don't want to actually do any work researching.

>>140091284
if you beleive in Lucifer and the egyptian minor gods do you believe in the mesopotamian gods? the canaanite gods? the Greek Gods?

>>140091749
Those gods are the Archons.

Do I believe in the Archons, yes as a Gnostic I do think the Chief Archon and the other Archons are real.

We call him the Demiurge, he is Yaldabaoth,Samael or Saklas.

The Blind, Ignorant and Jealous god.

But I dont worship him.

To a Gnostic he is Satan, we have another we call our God.

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>>140091289
The hook design is absolutely terrible though. You'd never catch anything with that. Try this one.

>>140091749
The Gnostic Lucifer and the Biblical Lucifer are not the same thing.

Lucifer just means light bearer.

The Light of the Aeons from the Pleroma is the true light of Gnosis.

We have the Divine Spark in us.

Lucifer is just seen as an Adversary to the Lord of the OT.

And yes that is what Gnostics are.

We are Adversaries of the Demiurge.

We rebel against all the Lords, Rulers and Authorities. The Archons.

>>140092201
sounds jewish

>>140092408
Hear and be wise. The God of the sons of Adam is not the highest monarch of the heavenly zones.
Above him swells one so much greater that his greatness cannot be measured. Even the name of God
defiles him, for he is not a god but a singleness of being without discontinuity. He shines with a pure
light no eye can see and speaks in thunder no ear can hear. There is none existing prior to him to limit
his duration. He is ineffable and perfect, standing alone complete unto himself.
Neither male nor female, neither large nor small, neither breath nor flesh, the mind of man can never
question his qualities for he is unknowable. He endures outside of time and encompasses duration. He
is the Father of Aeons. He rules before and above all existence. He gives knowledge but is not Wisdom.
He gives mercy but is not Love. The name of him is forever unspeakable, for in it are all names and
moments in the existence of things, and if ever it were spoken aloud the universe would unravel like the
hem of a garment and come to an end.

>>140092408
Ephesians 6:12

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

>>140091931
What is Lucifer then? Is Kristos the second coming of the Serpent in Eden? Is Lucifer the bringer of the Light of Kristos? Is Kristos Lucifer and vice-versa?

>>140083299
The ends of the horseshoe theory are not good and evil , they are right wing authoritarianism and left wing authoritarianism. When talking about their equivalence people are not talking about punching a nazi being equivalent to being a nazi they are talking about having either group seize control being equally disastrous for society.

There is no such thing as good or evil, only what you think is best to achieve your ideal world.

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>>140092905
From a biblical perspective the one time that Lucifer is spoken of is in the Bible in direct reference to an Enemy of the Lord Yahweh.

The Baal / Bel of Babylon. Meaning the King or god of Babylon which was the Adversary known as Satan or by his name Marduk.

The Leader of the Rebellion of the the fallen the Watchers who took human females to make with and have children by.

For most purposes that is Lucifer.

But the Gnostic Lucifer has no relation to that. Its just a title not a name, meaning Light Bearer.

To a Gnostic the Light comes from the Aeons.

We are rebels revolting against the Archons so we are seen as their Adversary also in this way.

>>140092905
The Gnostic Christ or Messiah is the Son of the Monad.

An Emanation of the One.

We call him the Divine Allogenes or Autogene.

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>>140084282
That is fucking brilliant

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>>140084724
>They both hold the same core value of Collectivism

Wow what a truly groundbreaking revelation. Never looked at it that way before. So you've identified one dimension in which there is overlap. Now you have to account for the differences between in every single other issue.

>>140084910
It's almost like collectivist communities can still form under an individualist government, but not the other way around!

>>140094873
I'm really god damn sick of people arguing like this. If you have to leave out so much information, it's because you're peddling horse shit.

Antifa
>rejects the nation state
>believes in global distribution of resources
>anarchistic
>rejects the family unit
>believes culture is a social construct
>embraces degeneracy

Natsoc
>embraces the nation state
>nation wide distribution of resources, fairness
>tolerates heirarchy only when it doesn't interfere with political goals
>promotes family unit and non-degenerate society

BOTH
>revolutionary groups that believe in radical change which must be implemented through force
>reject the founding father's idea of america
>reject free markets and individual liberty
>have extreme emotional hatred for classical liberalism
>reject religious freedom
>reject the 2nd amendment
>opponents of free speech
>believe that if different races exist in the same location, there will always be an oppressor and and oppressee
>believe they are victims of capitalism
>believe in a welfare state
>believe government must legislate/educate citizens into being good
>believe the government should be able to infringe on citizen's natural rights
>believe that only collectivism can make a prosperous nation
>don't believe in actual debate, support censorship if it benefits them
>use through-terminating cliches like "you're just white!" or "you're just a jew!"
>socialists
>dislike enlightenment era Europe

Seriously man I could keep going all day if you want.