Why are some idiots online arguing for UBI?

They realized that directly advocating for Communism backfires in the US so they changed tactics.

>>139982122
What's UBI?

>>139982246
nigger gibs

>>139982246
universal basic income

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>>139982122
a small group of men are enslaved
everyone else eats
a smaller group of jews know this and want it this way

>>139982246
One of your victory conditions.

>>139982463
>b-b-but jews are rich! they pay taxes! that makes them slaves too!
add up all the taxes jews have paid. not enough to run this system
white males must be enslaved for this system to work

>>139982431
......
Along with what immigration-standard?

>>139982122
Honestly? Because I'm tired of working and seeing how some damn ape mudslime "refugees" leech off my damned retarded hopeless country dry, yet they get no responsibilities or obligations for that money handed. This country is already impossible to change without a second coming of Hitler because the population is so chastised about feeling the tiniest of pride for their culture that it's impossible for a nationalist to ever rise in politics.

Therefore, since I'm a very frugal person and my hobbies are non-reliant on money, I'd rather just get UBI and dedicate the reminder of my life trying to be happy and stop worrying about the all-but-guaranteed self-destruction of Europe.

>>139982122
Because anyone who understands the future total automation of industry will have to at least consider UBI.

It sucks, it's dehumanizing, but when we're all ruled by a giant super computer guiding our every move, it might just be the best option.

>>139982808
t. horseshoe maker that lives next to mercedes benz in 1899

>>139982122
Definitely shills whose shills idk but they have been pushing this UBI nonsense nonstop for a couple of days now out of no where

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>have wages DECREASED since inception of minimum wage in the 70's due to INFLATION

>corporate profits all time high, modern productivity over 20 times previous generation due to automation and other technology

>all time low percent of population has savings and healthcare is a debt lottery

>money from a meager UBI gets put into debt payments and the ever present required expenditures

economy

Can anybody give me solid arguments against it?
I know that obviously it will cause inflation, and that over time it will likely make no difference, but beyond that I can't find a whole lot.
In the US it would cost about 7 billion dollars, which is much lower than the cost of food stamps (78 billion).
Any solid sources would be great as well.

libertards have been (((conned))) into thinking UBI might be implemented by cutting other welfare programs and decreasing overhead administrative costs without increasing taxes, so that's why they like it

in reality UBI is pushed by people looking for gibs and their shitlib enablers, while (((they))) want it so they can have a majority of the population who are hopelessly dependent on (((them)))

>>139982246
Communism. Gotta change the word to keep it fresh.

>>139985360
poors money go right into economy

no such thing as shills, god you people are fucking paranoid, why not go full tinfoil an head over to godlikeproductions

>>139985808
>let's give people who are bad with money more money
Spending doesn't create prosperity. Prosperity comes from an increased standard of living which comes from increased wealth which comes from increased productivity. To increase productivity you need capital investment which comes from savings. So you need savings and capital investment not spending.

>>139985360
>7 billion dollars
321,000,000 inhabitants x $500 a month = $160,500,000,000 (160 billion dollars)
321,000,000 inhabitants x $1000 a month = $321,000,000,000 (321 billion dollars)

Sure, it's just rough numbers, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Where are you getting this 7 billion number?

>>139986296
Accout only for those who are over the age of 21.

>>139982122
because they want a totalitarian socialist state to develop... like in Venezuelan.
that 1000 a month UBI will be worth 1000% less once inflation sets in.

>>139986183

>spending doesn't create prosperity

∆Y=∆G+(1-m-s)∆G

>>139986296
Not every person gets it. It would go by your monthly income what percent of UBI you receive.
If you work part time you wouldn't get the full amount.

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>>139985911

>>139986296
Also, sorry I may be off a bit on my calculation.
I checked it out a few days ago, I don't remember the exact numbers I came up with.
21 is being generous, I know many have said 18, but I've heard 21 as well.
When I came up with it, I accounted only for welfare (social security, medicaid, etc), not food stamps.
After looking up food stamps, that plus the cost of welfare was lower.
Also I'm horrible at math not involving powers of two, or subnetting, so good chance I could be off.

>>139987130
How does spending create prosperity?

>>139987219
>or subnetting
so you're basically a tech nerd version of those communists who advocate for an honest to god comeback of the soviet union on the basis that they would (of course) be a card carrying member of the party?

Leftists who just want to do drugs all day

>>139987542

check out the formula I wrote and try to recall your basic macroeconomic variables

>>139987895
>Keynesian macroeconomics
No thanks.

>>139982122

so the idea is to abolish absolutely all existing social programs and government gibs and replace it with UBI exclusively? and this is funded entirely by taxation of whom?

>>139982122
dumb as bricks, UBI is literally slavery.

>>139982122
UBI is the final step before the culling. The masses grow complacent and fat addicted to their daily entertainment. They lose their hardiness and willpower to fight. A people that will be trivial to cleanse from this Earth

>>139988319
Africa is basically UBI-land today, if only their goverments weren't so corrupt and hoarded the money, half of Africans would have stayed at home and died childless

>>139987867
Definitely not a communist faggot.
I've just been trying to read up on arguments against UBI, and the Internet hasn't offered strong enough arguments.
I don't know much about economics, but I know a freer market benefits my line of business.

>>139988708
i'm not saying you're a communist, i'm saying that you're assuming that UBI is just something that you can advocate, with the assumption that you're not going to be affected by it. i see this with a lot of tech faggots, they all seem to think that since they know C++, they're never going to lose their job due to "automation", so they can sit back and laugh with indignation at all of the "brainlets" that are going to lose their jobs and live in poverty.

>>139982122
Idk, same reason that porn is all of the sudden like 50% incest vids.
There are agendas at work.

>>139988261
funded by debt of course ;^)

>>139988708
the only that you should know is that you will be dependent on the state. and being dependent on someone else is a big no-no

Isn't universal basic income essentially welfare and food stamps?

If you need a handout it should be for food and utilities. That is it.

>>139982122
UBI is a way to "even the playing field" for idiots, that can't take control of their own lives, or take care of themselves.

>>139982246
Urinary back infection

>>139988947
Gotcha, no I'm not saying that at all.
I'm just curious about it. I know full well that I can be affected by automation.

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>>139989611
but it's egalitarian, and they will probably give out "bonus money" for those we need a quick buck, expect they will have to work like slaves. and what do you think will happen to all the niggers and spics who can't fathom the future? it's literally slavery for the stupid

>>139989894
who need*

>>139986183
You are referring to a short-run solow model. Long-run growth is not sustained by capital investment or increased savings rates.
Long-run growth is determined by the Romer-style models that incorporate the growth in ideas and knowledge as the driver of long-run prosperity.

>>139982122
Because minimum wage and welfare either cause a welfare trap or constitute price fixing that harms the economy by increasing the price of labor without decreasing the supply.

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>>139985666
Satan, please, I don't want communism

>>139982463
Damn, women would be better served as property...

>>139987130
yes, but the LHS is the independent variable and the RHS varies

>>139985360
There are two kinds of people in this world - people who work because they have to, and people who work because they want to, and the former vastly outnumber the latter.

The argument I hear most often from supporters of UBI to suggest that it's even a viable concept is that it would be a supplement, rather than complete welfare (see >>139987132). People who work part time or even full time at a low enough wage would be compensated by a certain percent or whatever. But this argument completely ignores human nature with regards to the two groups mentioned above: If people who want to work don't have to work, they'll still work. If people who have to work don't have to work, most will probably choose not to, which means even if UBI is intended to only be a supplement, it will invariably become total-welfare. More and more people will leave the workforce, which ultimately puts a heavier burden on the people who actually want to work.

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>>139982122
Some are indeed well-meaning idiots, who because they don't yet understand where money comes from (having been indoctrinated by the culture of gibs) sincerely think it could work.

Most are advance minions for the Faceberg 2020 campaign, which is itself part of the Zionist push to have the 2024 Presidential election be Zuckerberg vs Kushner - thus ensuring a President who is Jewish, Israeli, Zionist.

Think of UBI as the piece of bacon wrapped around the poison pill of slavery. Most dogs haven't yet figured it out.

>>139982808
So you're saying SkyNet is going to bribe us instead of fight us?

You're not wrong...

But still, it seems unlikely. I mean, if it got to the point where people would surrender autonomy to a program or something artificial, that would remove their status and make them a number? It's playing chicken.having that much control would take away the ability to exert it, no?

>>139982776
cry more because hitler was a failure. its sooooo good to watch

>>139990733
You completely missed the point if the post. I'm jewish.

>>139990572
in what part of a slice of bacon do you put a pill?

i know you put yours on the tip of your dildo before plunging your asshole, but the dogs...?

dude free money lmao

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>>139990733
>>139990885
BTFO

>>139982808
Most people are happier with a purpose not just check. And figuring out how to give everyone a purpose is going to be very hard in the automation revolution.
Ubi will only work in a post scarcity world.

>>139982122
People like to steal shit. They like it even better when someone else steals it for them.

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>>139990733

>>139985360
>Can anybody give me solid arguments against it?
>I know that obviously it will cause inflation, and that over time it will likely make no difference, but beyond that I can't find a whole lot.

Useless and expensive what more do you need?

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>>139988319
>culling
This is absolutely the right word.

"Culling" is probably the most important word and concept humanity can learn right now - since once the Zionists have final and complete control the Great Culling will indeed begin.

>>139990885
so quit your bitching and move?

>>139982122
Fuck you capitalist dog, someone has to pay for me. You will be enslaved mongrel!

>>139990992
Wrap a pill in bacon or sneak it into a treat. Easiest way to give a dog medication. For cats, mix meds in with a can of wet food or diffuse liquid meds into a bowl of milk.

UBI would balance out the income distribution inequality in the US. Per capita GDP PPP is 57K which is almost first in the world, not including microstates and heavily taxed countries like Norway or oil middle east places, but its median household income is only 44K, pretty much on par with every country in Europe and Canada. Americans could have 10Kmore per person than anybody from the western countries if UBI were implemented.

>>139991370
Move where? It's all the same, that's exactly my point, that there is no hope. They won. It's over. Liberals and its puppeteers are hell-bent in destroying culture.

>>139985360
>Can anybody give me solid arguments against it?

1) Everyone gets an extra $1,000 a month.
2) Businesses increases prices in response.
3) Literally nothing happens except more money in circulation.

Whoever you're arguing may then suggest that the gov't force businesses to not increases prices, lol.

>>139985666
>gadsen flag
>low IQ post
I hate both but you're genuinely stage 4 mentally retarded for conflating the two.

>>139985360
>>139990416
Yep. There had better be zero low-end jobs left that need doing, because literally no one will sign up to shelve Irish Spring at CVS for 8 hours a day when they've got a monthly government check that covers everything.

Then think of the class resentment that's going to result from this society. The different voting blocs will essentially be waging soft warfare on each other.

>>139991543
culture is a term used to define the human interaction regarding achievement. quit crying and realize that not all concepts fit your flawed finite ideaology

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>>139988297
>UBI is literally slavery
Yes. "Universal Basic Income" is what owners give slaves and animals.

UBI is intended to breed people who cannot feed themselves, and must thus follow the orders of their masters...or starve.

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>>139991838
>culture is a term used to define the human interaction regarding achievement.

what did he mean by this

>>139991806
>different voting blocs will essentially be waging soft warfare on each other
Divide and rule changes costume but never form.

Remind them that UBI was, at first, only meant to get some safety net going without high upkeep associated with safety nets. Since the beginning it was about replacing "traditional" welfare, while not raising the costs of it.

The advantages of it were as follows:
>administrative costs of UBI in comparison to other welfare forms are low
>it performs wealth redistribution thing(the rich will pay more taxes but UBI will be relatively small sum, while the poor, paying less taxes will receive the same sum that for them will be relatively larger)
>it creates safety net without creating welfare queens - there is no way the money you get through it will be enough to let you live on a decent level with it, but if you accidentally lose a job you aren't going to starve or go bankrupt because of it - giving you some time to get your shit together.

The obvious disadvantage is(assuming the idea of having some sort of welfare isn't enough of a disadvantage for you) is that as soon as you'll introduce you, human trash will start complaining that they can't sustain themselves with just UBI(as in - that it's working as intended).

>>139986296
So 4 trillion a year, from a government that generates 1.5 trillion in taxes is acceptable?

Not to mention that you have to pay for other stuff outside of UBI like roads and military.

>>139991838
I guess it's pointless to argue with the kind of person that is to blame. Enjoy the future I guess.

>>139991594
Businesses have no reason to increase price because they're not getting their costs increased. What you've said works for minimum wage.

>>139991097
UBI is only supposed to be enough to keep people from being homeless and hungry.

The idea is that a lot of people will still choose to work, just maybe not as many hours.
People can definitely find purpose in hobbies, charities, etc.
Most people don't like their boring, menial jobs anyway, so they don't exactly get a sense of purpose from it.

I admit it won't work until automation/robotics is a lot more advanced than it currently is though. We'll be lucky if it gets sufficiently advanced in our lifetimes.
That or we could just go back to nigger slaves instead of machine slaves.

If you think the elites are going to give away free money instead of letting people starve to death you haven't been on this planet long.

>>139992331
I mean who's going to lend you that kind of money. Would you lend money to someone who is like "Yeah dude, my I earn 30k/yr, but I can totally pay you back in the next 10 years if you give me 9 million dollars"?

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>>139982122
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

>>139992317
niggers going to spend it in five days and then they will have to slave away in factories for cents

>>139992357
wish you could too.

>>139992523
They do the same with other welfare so... yeah.

>>139992357
More accurately, it's pointless to argue with a shill. Learn to recognize disinformation and not waste energy on it.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation/24889

>>139992317
>poland knows economics?

Jokes aside thats preaty much on point.
The point of UBI is not to give gibs to everyone but to replace the stupidly retarded welfare system with something simple and as unabusable as possible.
Who ever argues for ubi over the current welfare is a commie. who ever argues to replace all welfare with UBI is not.

>>139992598
yeah lol, but this time they will have to do it voluntarily. it will solve also the drug problem to a degree and violence because these niggers will have to actually work for a living. chimping out won't help them forever, the jews don't take kindly to disobedient slaves

The primary reason that UBI might make sense to some people is that automation is eventually going to replace most, if not all human jobs. There's a lot of people out there too dumb to do anything other than manual labor or service jobs. It's not really their fault either. IQ is a bell curve, so as George Carlin has quite astutely pointed out, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." Jordan B. Peterson gave a great lecture on the kinds of problems we might see with all of the low IQ jobs disappearing, and I'd recommend you'd watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs2gPa5sD0

Now, when you start to realize that maybe half of the population is going to be incapable of working because a robot can do their job better, while simultaneously realizing that this is going to eliminate a lot of scarcity, it's easy to see why people might argue UBI might be a good idea. Unfortunately, we don't have any studies that could show how effective this might actually be (it could very well make the problem worse).

>>139992639
how is the whole ignorance is bliss thing working?

>>139992639
Thanks for the article, I'll give it a read.

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>>139982122
why would state give universal basic income if the state can subsidy some products so they effectively cost $0 ?

is it just to piss off paleo-capitalists?

>>139993147
its disappointing that you would say all culture is dead and you cant live anywhere. have you ever lived in other countries? some are really nice in places.

>>139982181
fpbp
now they're saying "GIVE EVERYONE FREE MONEY AND WATCH THE ECONOMY GROW"
same old soup reheated, really

>>139993168
dependance on the state is the greatest power they have. one of the reasons why china is building all those cities and almost literally burning wepons every other day

>>139992851
The point is that people too stupid to work are few, so we can afford to give them a free living, but an UNIVERSAL free living? In an utopian future where machines do all the work maybe, but not now, not here and not before at least half a century.

UBI fags don't advocate for free living in 50 or 100 years, they are asking for a free living right now.

>>139982122
the idea is that instead of having a huge bureaucracy that administers money where its """""needed""""" on an individual basis you could just hand it out indiscriminately
the sad part is that the current system is so wasteful this might actually be true

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>>139982122
Scared of increased automation, which is a valid concern.

>>139982122
>prices will stay the same when people have more money to pay

the price of everything will increase

>>139982122
Well, it's a right wing idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

>>139982122
GIBS ME FREE MUNY

>>139987132
Without the "Universal" part, it isn't UBI. It's just welfare reform.

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>>139982122
"I read on Facebook that UBI is the best thing ever."

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>>139982122
They want free shit.

>>139993434
so the state is the false god with it's gibs that should do for all of us?

what about us that will do anything to help, but refuse to be plundered via taxes so that some lazy fucks could receive some from their state god for just existing there? I mean how fuck retarded the system must be, not to appreciate hard-work for tax money they steal, just to give it to some lazy fuck in order to get their votes?

this should all be set on fire, now

>>139982692
the same you want for israel

>>139994030
at least they could buy off the retards so that they don't revolt all the time. paying off someone is cheaper than a revolution

>>139994073
the problem is that with ever more increasing technological sophistication, the IQQ treshold for a "useful person" is rising. and the jewish/mixed cognitive elite problem is making it even worse because the majority yis getting stupider over time while the small minority is getting smarter and smarter

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>>139994230
>buy off the retards
We can't afford it.

UBI is the only answer for the future. It would alleviate the concerns with future automation and the effect on the economy, perhaps leading to a Renaissance of sorts of a new class of artists and philosophers

It would also help social animosity between the classes. Since everyone gets it, the stigma associated with "welfare" in the US would be abolished. Not to mention, most of this board would welcome less gubbermint so abolishing social security, snap, etc for a more streamlined approach should be welcomed

>>139982122
the education system is so broken that most young people think UBI is viable. UBI is not possible with open borders and free trade and probably not possible at all due to scarcity. There is also no hope of explaining this to people because the education system has warped their perception of reality so badly. If you ever try and tell one of our peers UBI is not possible they will reference the "Scandinavian countries have it" meme. At this point in the cycle you probably should buy hard assets because we are one recession away from global UBI

>>139982808
the jews will NEVER pay you to play video games and have kids especially if you are white. Stop daydreaming and enter reality. We already have UBI through the welfare system, people are not dying in the streets, if UBI happened with fungible currency prices would rise proportionally to offset the UBI received.

>>139994478
there is no threshold for such thing

problem is that the state wants taxes and votes, what easier way to get those that put them all in cities and give them free money

>>139986296
he's just making shit up because he wants white males and the govt to provide for him. Reasoning with a communist is a waste of time. By definition communists are the losers of life because anyone with value or drive would not identify as a communist.

>>139994655

Checked but I find your logic flawed.

The education system is broken in part because such a large percentage of the students live below the poverty, leading to psychological and social problems too broad to discuss here. Better fed, better homes, more security would lead to more apt pupils.

I agree UBI is not possible with open boarders. This is something most progressives will get to understand. As for scarcity, I also disagree. The US is the richest nation in the world. The amount of money hidden by citizens and corporate accounts in havens is unimaginable. Food is a renewable resource.

If UBI was so plainly impossible, nation states would not currently be experimenting with is. We have the means

>>139994614
>It would alleviate the concerns with future automation and the effect on the economy, perhaps leading to a Renaissance of sorts of a new class of artists and philosophers
That is embarrassingly naive.

>>139993642
>Friedman: People who have a tax exemption higher than their taxable income should be given tax exemption - taxable income amount of dollars
>Leaf: Universal Basic Income IS THE EXACT SAME THING GUISE!!!!!!

...

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>>139982122
>why do people want gibs

>>139982122
Once automation makes it impossible for half the population to find employment it will be necessary. For now I think it's too early.

>>139991503
if we range banned Canada this board would improve dramatically

>>139994823

>(((they))) will never pay you a living wage or allow a 40 hour work week so just forget about it

UBI is the natural progression given the economic circumstances created by the 0.1% siphoning the system for decades. It is in the interest of all workers to demand a UBI so ((they)) stop taking advantage of us.

Why limit the welfare system? Streamline it and make it available to everyone so we can stop this minority only meme

also, you say prices would rise proportionally as a matter of fact when several economists have authored papers detailing the effects of widespread minimum wage increases, UBI, etc. and found no catastrophic rise in prices or inflation as you describe.

I'm just saying that the economic effects are not absolute and demand further study. To say it so matteroffactly is disingenuous

>>139995225
It's the same where it counts. Friedman suggested that people who don't work at all should be given a minimum income equivalent to a minimum wage. It's not just that low earners are taxed less or not at all, it's that they are guaranteed a minimum income irrespective of how much they they work, or if they work at all.

>>139982122

Because they think "Damn! $1500 a month? Fo Free! I could just work 20 hrs a week at a cafe and live like a kang!". WIthout realizing that once everyone is getting an additional $1500 a month that rents would then go up $1500 a month.

>>139995152

Is it? Think about how this board is populated by neets who do nothing but bitch about minorities and tfw nogf .

Without the minorities scapegoat angle and enough money to take a girl to mcdonalds once a week, we could perhaps discuss true politics and philosophy. Less stress for subsistence and actual discussion would naturally follow I feel.

I mean you get the idea right?

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>>139982122
gimme.

This would be so sweet, getting $1K a month not having to do anything.

Listened to this podcast, the guy explains how it would work, and it would work just fine:
http://www.thehighersidechats.com/scott-santens-universal-basic-income/

GIVE IT TO ME NOW.

>>139995062
>The education system is broken in part because such a large percentage of the students live below the poverty, leading to psychological and social problems too broad to discuss here. Better fed, better homes, more security would lead to more apt pupils.
This is completely made up. The education system is broken because of the jews and because of "multiculturalism." Teachers now have to teach to the lowest common denominator in their class which is low IQ niggers. The rest of your post is just gibberish and evidence of the broken education system

>>139995698

You say this like it is absolute fact. Several studies have shown that rent did not rise to a level that completely offset the UBI level. Besides, with a UBI, why would anyone want to live like that? With more potential tenants, I would expect a rise in competition for developers to collect those neetbux, more competition falling prices, and no longer are we shackled to the cities.

It could lead to a revival of development that is currently restricted to the urban area simply because that is where most of the wealth is concentrated

>>139995303
once that happens there will be a culling. What leads you to believe jews will give people UBI to create more useless eaters?

>>139995225
By the way, you should take some time to look at things more closely before you act like a spaz, faggot.

>>139996000
checked

>>139995935

There are many factors that go into the education system. I figured you polsters meant the niggers so I was trying to explain why inner city schools have low performers. Poverty tends to lower IQs and when teachers have to deal with the effects of poverty in the classroom, it is a detriment to all students.

blaming it all on jews or "multiculturalism" is a scapegoat and gibberish evidence of the broken educational system that failed you

sorry bucko "race realism" and "the jews" does not explain every problem

>>139982122
It's welfare. Get that shit out of here, that just means people who do work will get taxed more.

>>139995490
>UBI is the natural progression given the economic circumstances created by the 0.1% siphoning the system for decades. It is in the interest of all workers to demand a UBI so ((they)) stop taking advantage of us.
Complete bullshit with no basis in reality
>also, you say prices would rise proportionally as a matter of fact when several (((economists))) have authored papers detailing the effects of widespread minimum wage increases, UBI, etc. and found no catastrophic rise in prices or inflation as you describe.
Wew lad typical brain dead communist demanding his gibs

>>139996026
All those soldiers in the military are part of the class to be culled. How do you think that will work out? The elite will never support such a thing, it can only happen in your dream world.

>>139996000
>You say this like it is absolute fact. Several studies have shown that rent did not rise to a level that completely offset the UBI level.
Communists making shit up as usual

>>139996241
(You) nice bait lad

>>139982122
UBI sounds silly until the automated mecha jews steal all of the jobs and everybody has to use the govt to afford things. Wait a second, we could just get rid of money entirely at this point. Marx was playin the long con i see

>>139996329
no the dream world is thinking the population can continue to expand at this rate without scarcity and in addition that, the govt will pay people to sit around, fuck, and play video games. Truly pure delusion but pretty funny t b h

>>139982808
And why would the people who control the robots not just kill us off instead of giving people free money?

>>139996302

The worker has demanded safety in the workplace, decent wages, max hours, etc etc only because of the conditions in the workplace and society which was a result of exploitative practices. Perhaps I'm not explaining it as articulatly as i could but since we live in a new era of exploitation, UBI seems to counter the effects of wealth inequality, rising automation, and a lack of ideas for stimulating main street

>ad hom

The fact that several prominent and influential nation states have and are experimenting with UBI shows that it is a possible solution. I'm not advocating a complete shift to worker owned production, I'm saying a simplified solution to wealth redistribution that is easier and more benefital to the current welfare system warrants discussion

personally, idc about the gibs but I'd rather live in a healthy society instead of worrying about whether my BMW will be jacked or broken into because some kid can't eat

>>139996418

Look man, you can do the research if you really care but the studies are out there and studies have been performed and currently ongoing. It is no longer a dream

>>139996503

It ain't bait, this whole animosity between the races is a (((trick))) by the elite to divide and conquer the common working population by playing on natural human instinct to distrust outsiders and socioeconomic realities

If you really loved the white race, we could stop fucking up other countries through economic terrorism and ensure stability throughout the world rather than economic growth at the current heavy cost to human wellbeing.

why would anyone from latin america want to come here? Oh right the political climate and poverty, heavily influenced by american policies to defeat muh commies

im rambling but you get the idea

>>139996694
You're a barely literate retard. You're going to get culled if a culling's going on you moron.

>>139996751
your gibberish is also a result of a 35 year bull market in bonds which for your communist out there means interest rates trended lower for the last 35 years. This makes govt borrowing cheaper and allows deficit spending. Each time the US govt debt doubled in the last 35 years interest rates roughly halved. This creates an illusion of a lack of scarcity because during this anomaly, increased deficit spending has not caused govt insolvency. Deficit spending with open borders and a trade deficit is almost unprecedented because it normally would cause currency to weaken to a level that deficits would balance but that has not yet happened because the USD is the world reserve currency. After the govt become insolvent from excess deficit spending, the govt is forced to monetize debt which causes inflation. Creating paper claims on wealth does not create new wealth which used to be common sense until the jews ruined the education system and forced people to engage in memorization over critical thinking

>>139997239
>Look man, you can do the (((research))) if you really care but the (((studies))) are out there and (((studies))) have been performed and currently ongoing. It is no longer a dream
t. Bernie Sanders supporter using made up information to try and advocate for communism

>>139982122
Lazy parasites are afraid of earning their keep.

>>139992394
>Businesses need a reason to increase prices.
Oh sweetie.

>>139997286
Your stance is the govt will pay people to exist, which has no basis in reality or human history. You're going to be very disappointed if you truly believe the UBI meme

>>139982122
It's obviously being astroturfed and has been for a few years now. Some retards fall for it. UBI is the planned solution to maintaining the neoliberal system at this point. Money will be taken from the middle class and distributed as gibs. This will have the dual effect of stimulating demand, reinforcing consumerism, and of further gutting the capital accumulation of the middle class and concentrating more power relatively to the super-rich and their various arms.

>>139990024
The main thing that ideas and knowledge do is increase productivity though. The point of most inventions is to eliminate or reduce the work required to make or do something thus raising productivity. It's not like the development of new technology can happen without capital investment anyway.

>>139997289

I would contend that the bull market in bonds was created by rising wealth inequality and the elite, being lazy investors, went into bonds and stocks instead of innovation like smaller business owners might develop. Further, this cycle of elite and govt intertwined grows stronger by the day since the new deal and monopoly busting. As the lower middle classes get weaker, the elite invest their further illgotten gains given the illusion of scarcity in the markets giving rise to a bull market as you say. If the money had been invested into the lower classes, the economy would be stronger but we currently see the vast majority of wealth in the form of stocks, etc as you say.

So, let's stop paying for wars for ((them)) and develop the true resource we have, the people, and stop corporate elite from taking advantage of the working class. the economic conditions we see are a result of greed from the top, i would argue.

the govt will not become insolvent

sorry english is not my first language

>>139997812
>human history
When have we had automated machines doing all of the physical labour and no jobs for the uneducated/stupid? Ideally production will increase but overpopulation will become a real concern.

>>139998365
Similar things have happened before and the uneducated/stupid get culled every time. Wake up. Seriously, wake the fuck up.

>>139997489

ok so ad hom gotcha but are you going to look for information or do you not question your beliefs ever?

>>139997812

governments have paid people for existing throughout history, whether through security, bread and circus, etc.

The fact is educated people produce less children. Poverty inhibits education. Why not decrease poverty and increase education and perhaps the over populating minority meme would end

>>139997864

Why would UBI be astroturfed? Why would the elite want to be taxed more to support the under classes? No one arguing for UBI wants the middle classes to pay for it. They want (((speculation))) and (((those earning more than $10 million a year))) to have higher taxes to pay for it.

>>139998164
you would contend that because you have no idea about the subject matter. Pretty pathetic explanation. Central banks pushed interest rates lower

>>139998510

similar things have never happened. We've never had the computational or industrialized power we have ever tho

>>139982122

not to be a commie but literally what jobs are people going to have in 10 years time when trucks drive themselves and even my lawyer is a computer program?

and dont say "programming computers and maintaining drone trucks" because thats like 0.1% of the jobs to be replaced by the toaster menace

>>139996712
it would start a war that would put their interests in danger

>>139998705

I would contend that the average person did not contribute to the current financial system in a way that the elite's greed and military industrial complex's have.

The worker does not have a panama account, did not lobby for the invasion of vietnam/iraq/nicaragua/bosnia/et al.

No, the worker did not force the government to borrow from social security to pay for ((deficits))

economics is a pseudoscience without considering elements of psychology, the black market, etc etc. to simply boil it down to a couple greentexts is dangerously dumb

>>139996000

I'll check that trip, but you're full of shit. You must have never known any landlords at all. In the city, they are the scum of the earth. They will squeeze whatever they can for as little as possible. If everyone gets $1500/mo, then $1500/mo becomes the new $0. Landlords will know they can get it, so they'll charge it in addition to what they're already charging. I know this because I have been paying rent to scumbag landlords for 20 years.

>>139999180
>Tractors will put everyone out of work
Why do people keep parroting this shit?

>>139982122
They dont understand economics. Giving away money doesnt solve anything since people charge the maximum amount people are willing to pay for everything. If we give 1k, 10k or 1 mil to everyone for no reason, theyll still be relatively poor until theres more competition and efficient ways of doing things.

>>139999409
This has already happened in Hawaii based on how much the government paid enlisted soldiers as much as $2000 per month to cover housing. Average rental prices quickly rose to that standard.

If we're getting UBI, what are we giving up?

>>139998583
>Why would UBI be astroturfed?
For the reasons mentioned in my post.

>Why would the elite want to be taxed more to support the under classes?
The elite don't pay taxes, dumbass. And the elite always use the under classes as a method to attack the middle. See: civil rights, feminism, multiculturalism, bolshevism, etc. All funded by the elite through foundations such as the Ford, Rockefeller, and Tides foundations to attack the middle and further consolidate their power. Read de Jouvenel.

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>>139982122
Milton Friedman was one of the first proponents of UBI. It's just a negative income tax

>>139999802
Your freedom and ability to economically prosper on your own

>>140000269
No it isn't. Negative income tax still requires the person to work.

UBI will be given to any fatass that sits at their home and eats oreos all day

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>>140000547
>We should replace the ragbag of specific welfare programs with a single comprehensive program of income supplements in cash—a negative income tax. It would provide an assured minimum to all persons in need, regardless of the reasons for their need…A negative income tax provides comprehensive reform which would do more efficiently and humanely what our present welfare system does so inefficiently and inhumanely.

>The proposal for a negative income tax is a proposal to help poor people by giving them money, which is what they need, rather than as now, by requiring them to come before a government official to tally all their assets and liabilities and be told that you may spend X dollars on rent, Y dollars on food, etc.

>The virtue of [a negative income tax] is precisely that it treats everyone the same way…there’s none of this unfortunate discrimination among people.

>>140000269
>Milton (((Friedman)))

>>139999409

Landlords suck yes but I'm saying if people are no longer confined to the cities, development will take place and renters are no longer strapped to that land, they can more now where before UBI they were not

>>139999626

Hawaii also has limited building space so it is not suprising this would happen

>>139999802

the average worker wouldn't give up anything. anyone telling you UBI isn't in your interest, are the same type of people saying k-12 education would bankrupt society, or worker safety provisions are overrated, or a 40 hour work week would kill business, or overtime pay is unaffordable

>>139999840

UBI is naturally favored by the working class. those who are against it are the same as ^^ above.

further, perhaps my "elite" comments were simplistic as they are not a monolithic class. there are a few elite that genuinely care about people and weren't born with the sociopathic tendencies that many CEOs exhibit

you fell for a boogeyman m8

>>139982122
I told you UBI does not fucking matter and is a nonissue until we see mass-automation. Until then I'm not going to even debate it. Its fucking stupid to do it right now. Even though if I did have a ethnostate I would not be opposed to whites who are in trouble to get welfare but outside of a full ethnostate I would be against it.

>>140001162

Nobody is going to move out of the city. If anything, an extra $1500/mo will cause people to head straight to the city to try their hand at getting that plus a city wage. Wages, by the way, will stagnate even more than they already have because employers will say "Hey, there's $1500 less that I have to pay my employees".

>>140001296

"convince the lowest white man he's better than the best black man and he wont notice it when he picks your pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on and he'll give you his wallet"

pol is all about race and shit but dreams of ethnic cleansings are neckbeard things. why not provide stability to people instead of raping their countries for resources and people will naturally move back to their homeland

>>140001524

I disagree. people would see they can now have the same comforts outside of the city and not move into a cramped space for less money.

wages would go up because more people can afford more product. more demand for burgers and guns = more competition, more jobs, etc etc.

>>139996000
just like women in the work force was proven to not impact the housing prices, let us just ignore the fact it have more than doubled as a direct effect, just as anyone with half a brain said it would. this is just as obvious

>>139997239
the conflict is created but there are real differences between human sub groups. One reason they refuse honest talk about this is because identifying and taking into account the differences would help us end the conflict

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>>139982122
UBI = leftist groups can create a permanent "protestor class" to go around the country and shill for full communism.

UBI is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist yet.

It's true that if/when Artificial General Intelligence reaches the point where it can compete with the average human in all aspects a UBI system will be needed. An AGI singularity event would make 90% of the population unemployable as any services they could possible render would be more cost effective to be given to a robot.

But we aren't at that point yet, and likely won't be for at least another 30 years. Demanding UBI now would just be socialism without a point.

>>139992851

While I agree with the general premise (low IQ people are soon going to be superfluous in the labour market), I don't think UBI is going to be a panacea for that. What will actually happen is that you'll instantly create a colossal, permanent, shiftless underclass, wholly separate from the rest of society.

Society works because of the respect we all have or claim to have for each other. No matter how important your job, if you're getting up in the morning and going to work, you're providing a net service to society. A man living completely on the labour of others commands no respect whatsoever.

The level of class conflict this is going to create is unimaginable.

UBI only helps worthless inferior people. Become a farmer if you cant compete.

fucking ubi fucking retards

>>139992496
The problem is there is a limited supply of homes that are not next to niggers.
This is where UBI falls apart; Housing.
Both the US and communists tried free housing. In the US it was the projects and they turned in literal towers of terror. The communist ones where really shitty drafty pieces of crap.

Wagecucks are vehemently opposed to it (unrightly so) because they believe it represents the deaththroes of their very existence, everything they strived for. Enlightened NEETs like myself realise UBI is only the next logical step forward for mankind. It will happen no matter how much you permavirgin neckbeards shitpost.

>>139982122
ITT losertarians and Ancap weirdos try to justify how a good idea is actually a bad idea

When we dont all have to work 40 hour weeks any more to provide ourselves with a reasonable standard of living, what is your solution going to be?

Left as is, it will lead to some working too hard, and others not enough to support themselves

Im more in favor of a shorter workweek or some sort of system where you work for a few years then go to retraining/education than a UBI desu but something about the way we organize our society will have to change

>>140000547
>Negative income tax still requires the person to work.
it doesn't. if they don't work they'll only get a small percentage back from whatever the baseline "livable" amount is, so they still have some incentive to work
>UBI will be given to any fatass that sits at their home and eats oreos all day
we do the same thing with the current welfare system except people literally live off that shit and have zero incentive to get off it, since there is no penalty

>>139982122
I fell for the UBI meme for about a month.

Lmao

>>139995665
You don't know what a tax exemption is. Not surprising since you probably never filed.

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>>139982122
You know how the Democrats back in the 60s argued for getting niggers on welfare so the nigger vote would be secured? Guess who the nigger is now.

I realized my dad is nothing but a fucking retard when he was arguing with me over UBI because of some rosey bullshit he heard on the CBC. Boomers truly are fucking stupid people.

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Socialism would bankrupt the eco-

>>140011105
The US made ~$3.2T from tax revenue last year.
That alone costs $3T a year assuming a 250M population ellegible for handouts. Where do you get the money?
Also, good luck controlling inflation.

>>140011105
i paid 1k in taxes last year. would be cool getting that back but honestly i could give less of a shit.