A $1,000 per month cash handout would grow the economy by $2.5

>>139847746
who will give it ?tax payers ,knowing that every government has deficit spending money will be taken either by borrowing or raising taxes ,both options are shit .

>>139847746
>doing what you're "passionate" about is good
Chilren.

>>139847746
holy shit are we in another stock market bubble. literally nigger economics.

>>139847746
What's the secret plan behind all of this? Why are billionaires suddenly pushing for money handouts?

>>139847746
But it will cost something like 3 trillion?

This makes no financial sense at all.

250 million * 12000

Distributing loot does not help the economy.
Producing helps the economy.
see venezuela

>>139847746
Jesus, imagine giving nogs $1000 a month that they can spend on drugs and booze. Fuck that.

It doesn't really make any sense. The tax increases needed to give every adult $1000 a month would be staggering. Good luck.

>>139847746
Have you ever heard of inflation you economic illiterate nigger
Where would that money come from? The government would have to print insane amounts of money in order to have enough for the population, it would make currency worthless, you can't create money out of thin air and have no consequences.

jesus christ, fuck off with this shit. It wont grow the economy by that much just like the "tax refund checks" of Bush didnt do more than let niggers buy more gin and menthols, while the majority of recipients saved it.

>>139847746
Gotta have a stable economy before you can grow it. Thats what most people dont get.

It's all part of their fucking plan to enslave us and microchip everyone

>>139848291
so the poor dont riot and kill them?

>>139847746
Unless those billionaires pony up for it themselves, it won't work.

>>139847746
>give alan a tenner
>act surprised when alan spends his new tenner
9000 hours in economics

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>>139847746
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
MORE WELFARE HAHAH
AH
AH
AHAHAHAHAHA
HA
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>139848710
The plan is to give everyone money. Once they are are used to it, they demand that we all get microchips put into our brains

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>>139847746

fix'd

>>139847746
I bet these are the same "experts" that say if we totally opened our borders our GDP would double or some shit.

>>139848332
Got there first. What they are saying is that the economy will grow by the exact amount of the handout. Terrible investment.

And we haven't even discussed where this handout comes from and debt yet.

>>139848640
>a stable economy
This, and also a stable economy requires a stable country.
You can't grow a country when there's terrorist attacks all the time.

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>>139847746
I'm a doley, here's a more accurate depiction of inside the mind of a doley (basic income recipient)

>>139848291
>What's the secret plan behind all of this? Why are billionaires suddenly pushing for money handouts?
Complete dependence on the system. The plan is basically whatever dystopian novel or sci-fi movie you want to choose, they all work on the same principles, a completely controlled underclass under mass surveillance, administrative class that are basically corporate drones, and the elite class that can do whatever they want.
>>139848648
Unironically this.

>>139847746
absolutely false.

>>139848898
>where this handout comes from
it comes from nowhere, even if they tax everyone to the point that they can pay for it (on paper).

if you attempt to double the size of your economy through just printing money, you will suffer hyperinflation. it doesn't matter how big your economy is.

The milton friedman version of UBI is NIT

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

basic income would basically increase prices to the point that such income is not enough to live and you're back to square one, having to work for a living ... except there'd be no jobs in a country that salaries sky-rocketed

>>139847746
>put money from your right hand to your left hand
>WTF I just grew the economy!
This is what UBI tards actually believe

>>139848291
The economy won't collapse itself.

>>139848776
Something like this. They'll be able to control all behavior.

>>139849296
you can't live on $1,000 a month here unless you live in some hippie commune or with your rich boomer parent's

>Finnish population: 5,5 million
>Yearly budget 54 billion euro = 64,3 billion usd
>cost of guaranteed basic income(wo/extra bureaucratic expenses) 66 billion USD or 102% of the Finnish yearly state budget.
So how the fuck is Finnland going to fund this stuff while maintaining basic infrastructure.

>>139847746
> worthless layabout bums deserve free shit
> will create utopian magical world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqowmHgxVJQ
fuck you.
go to work faggot.

almost guaranteed less people would work

the the ones who do ... won't necessary work on useful things ... people would just do whatever they want, for as long as they want, with no commitment

this means true supply of important things would drop big time, and prices would skyrocket for the things people need

and as prices skyrocket, basic income is not enough to live, requiring people to go back to work, only this time there would be no jobs, in a country where production costs are up on the roof

>>139849396
not all but the majority of people. some with have jobs that give them enough money to not need to basic income. Others will find ways to live without it by banding together. It will not be enough though that they can't threaten them with violence. The thing that is most telling about all this are the people that advocate it

>>139848457
Yeah so be smart and put the money in bitcoin

>>139849180
Exactly, giving out money just increases prices to the point it was a waste of time. They learned this under FDR for fucksake.

>>139849433
Imagine not being able to live on $10,000

that's basic income

>>139847746
i have a better idea, follow me till the end
>Give infinite money to people
>Print or tax infinite money
>Economy grows infinite amount
>????
>Profit

you see cause its infinite we will never run out of it.

I'll be wait my nobel prize.
-Yours truly a retard.

>>139848291
Mass inflation.

Most of the billionaires have their money set in precious metals, rare earth metals, industrial stocks, etc. Their money and power won't disappear by hyper inflating the currency. Meanwhile the masses will be looking forward to a $100 bread, industries that the billionaires control. Essentially gives them the power to decide who gets to survive and who gets to die. It will give them huge power and leverage.

>>139848291
Demand is collapsing, which leads to deflation and depression spiral. Thia is the new stimulus program. Instead of giving money to bank and waiting for them to loan it out, they will just start giving everyone money every month.

>>139847746
It would grow the economy, certainly. But it would also cause mass inflation, thus reducing the worth of money. I'm also quite sure people like these businessmen could make certain that the money was paid using mostly their own wallets, but they won't. They want people poorer than them to pay. The problem with them personally ensuring the payments comes from their primary motivation, which is to ensure that the poor have more shekels to shell out for their thumb-screwing-for-cash services, which in turn would be negated if they had to pay out of pocket. Of course, they're just going to have to raise prices again in the other case, resulting in them losing purchasing power and the poor losing purchasing power.

>>139849180
This economy is now about wheelbarrows.

only way for basic income to work .... is to cash in your basic income, take that money and live on a normal country for the rest of the year ..... come back, cash in, repeat

>>139849935
So what your saying is that the jews are getting cut out of the deal?

>>139849877

What happens when the basic income fails to cover essentials and all welfare is removed as people seem to clamour for?

Seems to me like it will fail miserably.

>>139849433
any country with basic income would skyrocket prices so much, that such basic income wouldn't pay for the non-existent supplies of food no one's making, houses no one are building, and all the things that require all the annoying work

doesn't matter if the basic income is $1,000 or $5,000 or $10,000 ... prices are only relative to demand and supply ... if a country lowers their supply and increases their demand, prices will keep going up until you're back to where you started, only worse, because a country with hyperinflation is not competitive in the global market

>>139847746
First for Niggers spend it all on drugs and alcohol.

>>139848975
Chances are there will be a policing class if that isnt automated yet. The police will be as removed from the underclass as best they can; ensuring no hesitation in enacting their orders. Basically, we give you more than them to keep them in line, fuck up and youre out.

Who wouldn't boot poor people if it ment your family could survive

>>139849340
that's what GDP is

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>>139847746
Yeah, nah

>>139847746
would grow the economy by 2.5 trillion, and decrease the economy by 20 trillion

>>139850291
There's that Soviet joke.

Comrade A asks comrade B: what do you think, when we finally reach communism, will there still be police?
Comrade B replies: Nyet, comrade A! In real communism, every comrade will know when to arrest himself.

>>139847746
>L I T E R A L L Y helicopter money

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>>139847746
>implying people on welfare self improve, meet people, enjoy life or help community

>>139847746
simple, make the handouts voluntary. those that don't want it don't get it

>>139847746
We've seen government handouts in places such as Sweden and Germany. The handout plan will lead to more welfare bums on the street, and will entice more refugees to move to these places.

>>139847746
Pure lunacy. What will be the source of those gimedats? Tax?

No such thing as free shit. You'd probably have to comply with a whole host of conditions for ((( them))) to even consider you as a neetbux candidate.

>>139850540
if everyone's jobs are going to be replaced by robots in the near future why the fuck do we need immigrants? This shit is fishy as fuck

>>139850650
yes. most likely tax on tech companies. or they distribute it themselves

>>139848828
Bump.

>>139848898
>where this handout comes from

The government will take $5,000 from someone like me, give it to societal leeches, then give me 1,000 fake dollars that they just printed and tell me "you should be happy, you just got $1,000."

>>139848291
They want the automation. The equivalent of ethical slavery where workers work 24/7, down only for maintenance time, not paid except for the maintenance costs. No safety procedures, no workers' rights, no nothing. Imagine the profits, even when you give handouts, the profits increase by an order of magnitude.

>>139847746
>Giving every adult in the United States a $1,000 cash handout per month

stopped reading there, fuck america, give money to europeans instead

>>139850740
>why the fuck do we need immigrants?

we don't dumbfuck. this will eliminate the left's narrative

>>139850755
If I identify as Transwealthy will Bill Gates give me all his money. I was born into the body of a poor person but I identify as a rich person. Bigots wont give me their money, it's all so tiresome

I'm all for it so long as you kill all the fucking social programs. It would probably be a net savings.

>>139850792
>>139850755

corporations need to pay for it or fuck off.
should be called the jew tax

Can I move to the US for gibs? I want to enjoy your country and meet self-improved people.

>>139850824
I know that, that's why I said it seems fucking fishy as fuck. Have immigrants, the economy needs it. Your jobs will be taken by robots have free money

>>139850891
>will Bill Gates give me all his money.

you should look into the gates foundation. he's actually giving away all his money

President Bush tax rebate up to $600.00

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>>139851015
did you JUST realize the left is all BS?

>>139851027
yeah that's why he should give it to me since i'm Transwealthy. He doesn't know the pain I endure every day. Seeing other rich people living a carefree life while I toil away. I identify as one of them

>>139847746
Fuck 'meet people' and 'help community'.
Probably along with 'enjoyment' too.

>>139847746
I see you enjoyed getting destroyed last night so much that you decided to make this thread again this morning. Fucking kill yourself you useless piece of shit. Nobody loves you and never will, kill yourself

>>139848975
This nigga woke.

>>139847746
in the united states GDP would fall as national debt climbs from handing out money it doesnt have and that will decrease the value of our fiat currency and cause a mass exodus in the currency market that the fed would have to compensate for

but internationally america would loose currency value when you look at the post basic income exchange rates. how do dumb people not understand that if it was as easy as minting away all your problems there would be no 3rd world countries. like all of a sudden humanity realized it could make more units of a currency and nobody ever dreamed of making more of them in the past

No thanks. Somehow our national debt was doubled in 8 years to 20,000,000,000,000.
OFF the teet!

>>139847746
Completely retarded. This will quadruple the size of ghettos all across the nation, disenfranchise an already bleak law enforcement outlook and allow even more illegals to funnel away money out of the country and not into the economy like its supposed to.

>>139851172
it's the left pushing for it though. Like I said before the only reason I can see a reason for this is to microchip and control everyone

>>139848162
Agreed. That passionate meme is bullshit. Do what makes a lot of money and funnel the cash into your hobbies. Its not that fucking hard. Lefties just want to live in a state of constant euphoria of drugs , 0 responsibilities, 0 accountability, and degeneracy due to their mental illness.

>>139848648
>It's all part of their fucking plan to enslave us and microchip everyone

you can work too you know

>>139848291
The rich are rich because they have money they dont spend. The poor are poor because they hand their money to the nearest rich man as soon as they can via retailers. They know that the initial pain of giving the masses a cash injection is worth the immediate boost when 100 million people blow $1000 simultaneously on dumb shit

>>139848975
>a completely controlled underclass under mass surveillance, administrative class that are basically corporate drones, and the elite class that can do whatever they want.

and this is different from our current system how?

>>139851458
yes but do you think most people would have enough drive to find the motivation to either find employment only a human can do. Or the intelligence to come up with something a robot or algorithm cannot achieve?

>>139851416
partially true.
i have a friend who has taught himself to paint in oils while on welfare. he's now working on moving that into a self sustaining enterprise.
there are people who would become more civic and activated if they didnt have to worry about the basic living requirements.

>>139851380
Enforcement Droid Series 209 will get redpilled from being connected to the internet and kill all niggers

I wouldn't mind $1k a month, BUT it would have to come with restrictions.

>>139851568
>Or the intelligence to come up with something a robot or algorithm cannot achieve?

AI isn't very good at creative stuff. yet

>yes but do you think most people would have enough drive to find the motivation to either find employment only a human can do.

if you don't have drive, you deserve to be enslaved

>>139851699
gets paid $12,000 USD a year and mummy will still pay for his tendies so he can by a waifu bot

but desu UBI just means state sanctioned black breeding programme

>>139848291

The same reason they're pushing for unlimited third world immigration. More consumers with more cash = growth. Because stupid shit like family and nations take a back seat to wealth.

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>>139847746
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

>>139851738
I did not say AI, I said algorithm. They are different things. Same as a robot is different to an algorithm

they probably will die in the end, this is most people. Maybe those guild stones are right

>>139851503
You'll see, you're not even at 70% yet.

For example, you won't be able to own a car as a private citizen, you'll have to use shared cars that videotape everything happening in them and track everyone in them.

There will be a Sesame-like system like in China, where you'll score points for being a "good citizen", most things (including reporting other citizens to the NKVD) will be gamified so as to maximize participation.

You will not be able to live outside cities anymore, as the associated costs will be prohibitive and regulations will be ludicrous.

You don't even have facial recognition cameras covering every street corner and store/building interior yet like China does, you have a long way to go.

>>139848291
Because of the fake Wall St. projections of buying and selling. Nobody has the money to buy therefore we are heading for an economical crash like we've never seen, the numbers have been inflated beyond actual consumer spending, now its time to buy or pay the piper. Bush did it with a couple of "tax rebates" and people bought a bunch of shit they didn't need, maybe it worked, I don't know.

>>139850291
Police will definitely be automated, too much risk of a popular uprising if the police is human since cops can decide to not support the rotten dystopian totalitarian regime, whereas robots are programmed to stomp any uppity proles if they get out of line.

>remove Social Security and all the workers it pays
>Blanket 1k per person over the age of 18
Actually doable from a fiscal standpoint, but still ill advised. It turns a bulk of social security administrative cost into money for citizens but just a blanket extra 12k per person cant be healthy for the economy

>>139847746
One group who will win from it are payday lenders (hint, hint). Every ghetto nigger will have guaranteed income so if they do not pay, courts can order loan payments to be deduced directly.
Basically every dirt poor person takes out a loan to buy drugs/car/designer shoes and will then be exactly as poor as before.

>>139848773
Basic income means actually getting rid of almost the entire current welfare system.

And replacing it by just giving EVERYONE something like $1000 a month.

>>139849433
You could live easily with 1,000$ here, thats 8,000kn, approximately double the average salary

>>139847746
>245 million adults
>245 million * 1000 = 245 billion
>245 million * 12 = 2.94 trillion

>2.94 trillion > 2.5 trillion
What are the odds that the researcher has autism?

>>139847746
>>Giving every adult in the United States a $1,000 cash handout per month would grow the economy by $2.5 trillion by 2025, according to a new study on universal basic income.
Where the fuck will it come from? Must have been written by a woman or a nigger as they both think gubmint money grows on trees.

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>>139851676
With ghettos filling entire states from all the gibmedats we'll need a new sort of peace keeper. I volunteer.

>>139848291
So everyone will be dependent on the state that is run by these billionaires.

>>139852123
Well then it's their fault they're poor.

>>139849274
fuck off with your Jew socialism crap

>>139852250
In America, 1% of people own more wealth than the bottom 99% of people combined.

You can take some from them

Also Basic Income means getting rid of almost all current welfare programs.

Also you can just print more money, a bit higher rate of inflation isn't a big deal, people in debt benefit from inflation, the only people who would be worse off from inflation under basic income would be the rich that stockpile cash and do nothing with it.

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>>139852301
when law reigns supreme and this democratic experiment is over, we will finally be free

>>139852301
If I identify as Tansegist and I identify as a 12 year old, can I commit murder and not be tried as an adult?

>>139852180
Nigger, look at the rough calculations made by Norway anon here: >>139852206
Are you saying that the US currently spends 2.95 trillion on welfare per year? Because it certainly does not!

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>>139852988

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>>139847746
niggernomics

>>139851103
wtf that was Obama's shitty stimulus tax.
Stop trying to change history Jew

>>139852645
That wealth is not in cash and it is also being currently used to generate wealth, selling offices, buildings and assets to give money to others won't work for long because the rich won't have anything to be seized and sold. And the money they have doesn't sit in a vault like Scrooge McDuck, it is used by banks to loan it out and invest, they don't hoard the money. Also you have no source for your stat.

>>139847746
This is how politicians and corporations make money off of countries. Federal reserve prints money. Government gives it to all citizens. Taxes increase. This money goes back into the pockets of gov and ceos. Meanwhile the entire country gets more in debt to the fed.

>>139847746
>le gdp growth meme

>>139847746
>New tax
>Government removed ten billion from economy to give everyone ten dollars while the government takes 20 percent for program administration costs because you're going to need federal unionized workers for the program

>Removing money and putting back less is the most efficient means to grow the economy

>>139847746
> s3) The Keynesian nature of the model means that the main driver of economic activity is aggregate demand.

There are other limiting factors on growth such as natural limitations, and resource limitations. These limitations can be overcome via investment in capital and rising technology.

But taxing high income people limits investment making these problems insurmountable.

We would see the constumption economy grow until the productivity fell to create inflation sufficient to undo the effect of the UBI.

Now a bunch of people would be dependent on the UBI and investment would have been curtailed so that the economy would have grown less than if the taxation had not been done.

Government spending has to be a good investment to pay off. Giving people who consume, money for doing nothing won't increase production but will increase inflation. The demand isn't real unless it is matched by investment. Its just misallocation of resources which will lead to lower productivity and inflation as the economy shrinks.


The only way to increase real demand is to make those with a propensity to consume productive. That is, expand the middle class, and foster their ability to be productive with education etc.

>>139848291
Bread & Games

>>139853562
prohibition taught me something, buy booze and stash it

How about we eliminate income and property taxes below a certain threshold instead of giving niggers even more money a year in handouts?

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>>139853536
Lol got my sides

>hand out $3.6 trillion in cash a year
>only grow the economy $2.6 trillion

perfect

>>139853737
>eliminate income and property taxes below a certain threshold
That's already a thing you underage retard.
Half of your country doesn't pay anything besides consumption taxes.

>>139848291

Brings everyone into the system.

Even the poor will consume, and the top tier rich arent rich because of the money they hold, but because of their other assets.

You can for the moment live with 1k a month, so people that dont work will also consume.

With time, prices will go up due to massive inflation, and now everyone ( remember now everyone consumes) will be enslaved and dependent on the handouts.

It's a clever tactic to seize control of the world

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He's an idea: Instead of just giving that money out for free and with no good reason, how about the government make up some bullshit work? Even something completely pointless like repainting public benches every week or whatever, literally ANYTHING just to create employment.
You know, the way governments actually used to act under Keynesian economics?
At least that way you have the slight chance that at least SOME of all that money won't go down the drain.

>>139854542
>At least that way you have the slight chance that at least SOME of all that money won't go down the drain.

Do you know how economies and systems work?

Money NEEDS to go down the drain otherwise the economy collapses

>>139854542

How about border control

>>139853562
The other end of this is letting all the wealth concentrate and demand fall to nothing.

This would be great for the environment, ( kind of like the dark ages )

There needs to be redistribution in a capitalist economy to prevent it from devolving into feudalism, but it needs to be redistribution of opportunity, not outcome.

>>139854542
>>139854677
Wtf are you guys talking about? Paying someone to dig a ditch and fill it back up is a complete waste of resources that could have gone for something actually productive. Stop with the broken window fallacy pls.

>>139854677
Well let me put it another way: at least that way at least some of the money will go towards a productive cause instead of mostly being dumped via excessive consumption into the balance sheets of corporations. From there's some will "trickle down" into the top-decile via financial institutions and siphoned off to shitskin countries that actually produce 80% of the physical products being consumed.

Better?

>>139848828
Literally this. Why would most people work? Most people are lazy. Heck, why would we even need education? What would we even be educating ourselves for? How to not spend your $1000 wad on hookers and blow? Don't.
>Ok class dismissed.

>>139854542
you should develop your point more,
-if this 'bullshit work' is mandatory, you need to spend billions on bureaucracy to manage that.
-if it's optional nobody is gonna do it.

>>139853793
>3.6
Adults, so the program would cost 2.6 trillion. The level of intellectual dishonesty here is still mind boggling. Do these people just assume we are all mouth breathing retards?

>>139848142
it will have to be printed since its for everyone, so there will be considerable inflation

if it's only a partial amount of whats neccesary to live, then it's ok, not enough for a lot of people to quit their job and become dependent on handouts, but enough to give everyone some extra breathing room to use/save/invest/waste as they please, everyone smart will get into real assets before inflation hits but at least there won't be a shortage of money with plenty of cash of degrading value flowing through the economy, it will stimulate economic consumption, but not neccesarily productivity, but it would quickly be filled by the ramping up of robotics to do most jobs

im not worried, smart people will always win under any system

>>139855062
>nobody is gonna do it
The whole debate over UBI was sparked because people noticed western economies are in a permanent state of underemployment (except Israel LOL sucks to be you, Europe!). If that holds even a grain of truth, people WILL take advantage of the program.

>>139847746
It sounds great, until you realize that sheer scope of all the leeches and do-nothings your supporting.

When it's people with great work ethic, who are honorable people who produce and go upward, you visualize people like yourself.

In reality, you're also cutting a 1k paycheck to people who are just lazy. Not people who are unemployed because employers got too picky.

I like the idea of having a self-employment supplement income based on strict evidence. But other than that, if you're just being a bum who doesn't care, we have to stop enabling that.

>>139855030

But all of the money will go to a productive cause; consumerism.

States are corporations, and will be more so with this change. Their product is the work they get from their citizens which are their assets.

I dont see how what you say could happen considering automation will come along this 1k giveaway

Humans will no longer be useful for anything other than consume

>>139855102
There doesn't need to be money printing. Just take it from the rich. But if you take money away from investment in production and increase consumption you have more dollars seeking consumptive goods of which there are the same or even less than before. THIS not money printing is what creates inflation under UBI

>>139855256
Imagine when you read YouTube comments, all those faceless, nameless people who flood in. You can imagine they pretty much produce nothing their whole lives.

Now imagine distributing 1k and giving individualized attention to each one of these snowflakes. Think that'll pan out?

You think people who are not trustworthy, lazy, dishonest, and so on should get a leg up? Or should we find something merit based?

We need a system that rewards people on their throughput and productivity. Not creating more snowflakes.

>>139855349
Bill Gates would be doing a better job if he was trying to generate jobs instead of giving niggers handouts. I want to punch his glasses into his face so he is blind for real

>>139855274
>...automation...
>Humans will no longer be useful for anything other than consume
Sorry to burst you literally techno-rapture fantasies, but full economy-wide automation or even sector-wide is still a very long way ahead, and we'd probably stumble across the limitations of physical scarcity and political/business calcification before even a decent chunk is automated.
Your entire argument reeks of Silicon Valley cool-aid.

UBI is so fucking retarded.

Just employ people for marginally useful work and pay them way too much for it instead.
Or if you realllllllly want gibs, then hand out food and other basic resources. Don't hand out fucking federal reserve notes.

>>139847746
>believing this kike shit
Giving away cash without value is the opposite of economic growth

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>Less people work
>Money continues being printed and issued through gibs
>Everything gets expensive because there aren't enough goods being produced and the labor pool becomes variable

>Oy vey, univaasal income will make everyone a winna goy
>Gibsmedat gets out of control and minority families continue growing in size eventually outpacing the needs
>One year later
>Only whites are left working
>Wages are partitioned even more to keep even a producer under the thumb of the government for production of gibsmedats
>A-atleast we're not poor right? Now we have REAL income equality too...

Fucking cuckerberg and elonstein know what they're doing, if they really wanted to make prosperity a thing they would invest in automation to reduce the amount of labor required to output more goods.

>>139854990
Let's not go overboard, I didn't mean literally sisyphean tasks taken out of anti-fascist/anti-communist satire. You could get some work with actually positive effects done. Things like urban aesthetics (cleaning up the streets & public gardening), as well as infrastructure/construction jobs have no real profit incentive, and pouring in manpower into these tasks could create a helpful effect on society. Again - it's the way governments actually used to work before the cancerous idea of "austerity" was entrenched in political discourse by the finances sector.
Regardless of its absolute value, having people wash graffiti off walls is a thousand times more beneficial than giving them the excuse to sit at home, smoke weed and watch YouTube vids all day long.

>>139848291
I've personally written and designed programs that I know have caused entire floors of staff to be laid off in logistic departments. I've got two options; I can either say that those people are shit out of luck and deserve to be out of a job when the program I've written can do a better job that I could ever do, or I can have the most basic of human compassion and understand that we're slowly starting to reach a point where humans aren't needed for most 'work' whether that be labor or intellectual and that doesn't mean these people no longer have a basic right to food and shelter.

The job I perform bothers me just as much as any other well adjusted human being and I imagine technology leaders see this much more often and much more widespread that I ever will. Universal Basic Income means the coal towns that are built around a rapidly obsoleting industry have at least some sort of income when every single skill they have trained their entire life for no longer is of any value.

Basic human decency aside, it's also the smart thing to do because it means that I'm setting a precedent so if my job is ever replaced by a robot, I personally won't be shit out of luck.

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>>139847746
I'll admit I'm not the most economically literate so I'm open to being corrected, but this sounds like a broken window fallacy to me. Certainly the economy will grow, but isn't that solely because it means more spending? There isn't more wealth being "generated". In fact, less wealth is "generated" because less people will work (and those who keep working for the reasons in OPs picture will almost certainly work shorter hours. Personally I'd only work 3/4 hours a day if I had no reason to).

>>139848291
My guess would be it's because billionaires usually aren't the ones being taxed the hardest (that's almost always the middle class), so wealth from the middle class is siphoned to the lower classes who can then spend it on products produced by the higher classes. Like some sort of new version of the Bread and Games of Caesar's time: there isn't enough work, slaves (robots?) are taking over the jobs of the plebs and the patricians are taking all the lands, so just give the peasants enough food and money to keep spending.

>>139848457
they're already doing that
it doesn't matter, this economic system has been dying for a long time, fiat will become worthless, it always does, UBI or not, so just buy some land

what they are hoping for is stimulating economic activity, which it will do, but it means consuming resources that should be saved for the future

some people will use those payments wisely, so I'm not too worried if they temporarily benefit

>>139855581
Even (((he))) tells you automation is just a meme to funnel more money to futurists like Musk pissing money away on projects that eventually are subsidized by the government and lead to production of military tech.

>>139855438
>Imagine when you read YouTube comments, all those faceless, nameless people who flood in. You can imagine they pretty much produce nothing their whole lives
>he says as he has half-baked political arguments on 4chan

>>139856044
There's got to be a means of calculating automation vs sustainable UBI somehow

>>139853245
The package will pay $600 to most individual taxpayers and $1,200 to married taxpayers filing joint returns, so long as they are below income caps of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples. There is also a $300 per child tax credit

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/13/bush.stimulus/

You must be 12?

>>139856589
Into archive
https://unvis.it/cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/13/bush.stimulus

>>139851675
i think most of them would still prefer the prospect of doing nothing for the rest of their lives

some will make the most of that new possibility, but most won't, and there will still be a stigma against people who are living off BI

$1000 isn't enough to pay all the monthly "middle class" bills-you'd still have to work

Wether or not money is involved, the reason to work is to get pussy

>>139852206
obviously 2.5 trillion is supposed to be the total

so cost is 2.5 tn, but profit is 5 tn. Which sounds even more like bullshit. The study is probably of bad faith (ie : 100% of people will want to work 80 hours weeks and invest all of their spare income !)

>>139847746
A $1000 per month handout would mean everybody has to pay taxes which fund that.
Better to just work and keep the cash. More productive, and less job loss.

>>139855349

Moving digits on a computer or moving paper doesn't produce goods, that money is only supposed to move AFTER something has been produced or some service has been rendered. If all the money was just being moved around without anyone doing any work all that does is increase the amount of labor required to even get the most basic necessities. The price of everything goes up, your boomer landlord raises the price of your rent, the cost of living increases because more money is flowing, etc. The money is only as valuable as the labor it has potential to produce. Why do you think nigger money from places like Zimbabwe is worthless even though the notes are in the billions and trillions? Overprinting and lack of labor. Turning everything into a gibsmedat can only reduce the amount of output because eventually everyone gets lazy says well someone else is doing the work anyway, I'll let them handle it. As enticing as it sounds to take money from someone though, someone like Soros who only uses money to destructive ends, all the movement of that money will only cause problems unless there is labor to balance the transfer of all that money. Confiscating paper and numbers on a computer only makes people less trusting in a currency because it means either they will have the labor stolen by the government, or its value will be variable because the labor force is constantly shrinking or growing. Some manufacturing is automated, but there are still more important things that haven't been automated, food production being the most important has many tasks that no robot is capable of doing yet, i.e. sorting spoiled food, harvesting from trees or plants, planting, irrigation all require a human hand somewhere, since there are no humanoid robots capable of climbing ladders, butchering animals, or walking up and down steep terrain planting seeds.

>>139857126
The bank bailout was 16.8 trillion, that means we could have given everyone around 6 and a half years of UBI instead. Are you seriously arguing that the bank bailout was more beneficial to the economy than people having free spending money for over half a decade?

>>139847746

>that bullshit graphic
>implying most poorfags wont just stay around doing jack shit with themselves

Its funny how old lefties said work was a man's right not just because of the income but because a job gives you dignity and a purpose

The new lefties are so fucking lazy its pathetic

>live with 10/10 asian gf in state with cheap housing/utilities
>$500/month for rent including utilities
>$75/month for delicious walmart junk food
>$50/month for internet
>$50/month for taxes
>$25/month for other necessities (toilet paper, soap, trash bags, etc.)
>$1,300/month leftover to spend on whatever luxuries we want

NEET life couldn't get any better than that

>>139855349
if you take it from the rich, you won't have enough to pay people for more than a year, and they earned it (ethically or not is another matter) so they should keep it

printing money harms savers such as the rich, so they are encouraged to spend/invest it
there is legitimate need to fund infrastructure projects, the rich should be encouraged to invest for profit

inflation is when you slice a cake too many times
increasing the money supply is fine if you can make the cake bigger, which is possible with robotics and mining asteroids, but we won't get to the stars if we're all wasting our time chasing a few crappy jobs

it would be better if they started slowly, $200 a month, so there's incentive to work, then ramp it up/down if the economy can cope, not allowing people to become dependent and can be aborted if it doesn't work out

UBI can be done in a good way

>>139857673
>75/month for food
>Living on 2.5 USD of food per day for two people
I see you've never had to pay a grocery bill in your life.

>>139847746
>help community
Because in multicultural societies brown "people" really do this. Whites are the only ones with a sense of community.

>>139857673
>prices skyrocket as taxes skyrocket and businesses have to compensate and consumers have no alternative
It wouldn't be any different. Just more expensive and more trapping.

>>139857604
That view was not left wing at all retard. Read a fucking book. That's a fascist point of view.

>>139857604
>job gives you dignity and a purpose
Left never said that, idiot, the whole point of communism is to abolish alienation of capitalistic system and the only good work is the one that makes that abolishment happen faster.

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Was this study conducted at the University of
Tel Aviv?

does that factor in all the crackheads and refugees

>>139857742
The best way to do UBI is not to do it at all.

>>139857494

The banks were fucked and them defaulting would have crashed the economy even harder than not bailing them out. So yeah, as slimly and niggerly as it was, it was arguably more beneficial than a literal monthly redistribution of wealth.

I support universal basic income, in a white ethnostate.

>>139847746

>GIB US MONEY
>*$1,000
>IT'S NOT ENOUGH
>IT'S RACIST
>YOU ARE RACIST

>>139858299
Good goyim

>>139847746
i could win a million every week i wouldn't waste it on niggers or migrants

>>139858040
the whole point of communism was to make everyone equally poor and enslaved
and it worked

meanwhile every country that has adopted capitalism has thrived

>>139858416

I like to larp about a civil war as much as any retard on this board, but I still enjoy my /somewhatcomfy/ world economy over your anarchy carnage, especially in a noguns country

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The only reason I ever worked was for money. There is no self-fulfillment in moving boxes around a fucking warehouse, or stocking shelves, or serving customers who treat you like a disposable vendor.

Now that I get NEETbux I can't imagine ever going back to work. Luckily in my country working is a choice (if you don't have kids at least), but for some others that isn't the case. Universal income would create more people like me, and would also de-stigmatize being a NEET (Which I think is the real reason why most people don't do it more often). The system would collapse.

Now the real question you should ask is, do you WANT the system to collapse? Personally I think it would be a good thing. A bit of bloodshed, but ultimately a fresh start. But that might not be suitable for all people.

Personally I will keep living the good life as long as I can, fuck everyone else. That is how nature intended.

>>139853419

>Enjoyment

Can do that better doing other things such as your hobbies.

>Meet people

Can do that in a social activity far better

>Help community

Fine

>Self improve

Depends on the job/your capability in that field and theres far better ways to self improve than a job. For the vast majority of people the only reason to work is for money.

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>Send more aid to Africa please, our children are starving because nobody farms the land, or raises livestock.
>Send money
>They buy what they need from foreign countries
>The problem is never solved because they don't establish a manufacturing base, utility infrastructure, or make actual use arable land

Because they aren't putting forward any labor at all even to produce the bare minimum of what they need, but that's ok because there will always be those who morally cuck out, and give money to people to have food shipped in from overseas :^)

>>139857908
>>139858040

You fucking summerfags don't know shit, fascism says work is a man's DUTY you retards, not a right even the completely useless has.

Still old left (I'm talking 50-60 years ago you faggots) were far more conservative than today's lefties and didn't like gays either.

Point is at least the old left pretended they weren't lazy shits

>>139858163
University of Tel Aviv is more concerned by the impacts of evul jewish "occupation" on the once-magnificent economy of the now-impoverished helpless Palestinian people #freepalestine #onestatesolution

I am certain this would inflate cost of living to match nationwide increase in income rendering it pointless.

>>139847746
Only a lefty could think the image on the right makes sense. People would become even lazier than before

>>139858167
Crackheads and refugees still need food and clothes, not even gibmedats can't live off of only alcohol and cocaine. That money goes into the small businesses in their community that are trying to be legit.

End the war on drugs and you can tax the shit out of that so you get most of your money back instead of going to Mexican cartels, and make dope dealing an unsustainable avenue of income for dindus so they have to find a new 'hustle'.

>>139847746
It would grow the economy by more than that due to hyperinflation. Silicon Valley should stick to coding and making chips. Econ 101 is too much for them.

Why not just increase tax-free amount per year by $12000? Because fuck neets

>>139858821

>once-magnificent economy of the now-impoverished helpless Palestinian people

I kek'd

So unis over there are cucked af too?

Got more stories like that?

>>139858255
UBI would eliminate the waste of the welfare system

everyone would benefit temporarily until inflation catches up, economic activity goes up

production shortages will prompt investment in robotics and other technologies to acquire resources and run things efficiently
if successful, we all benefit from the new technologies and we can live on mars in 20 years time

or the economy collapses before then (this may come whether UBI is adopted or not), all the parasites that wasted their money die out

all of pol would survive in both scenarios
why worry?

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>>139847746

>>139853793
Same assholes tell us that immigration increases GDP. Time to start questioning every assertion they make.

>>139851962
>You will not be able to live outside cities anymore
Thatd be really hard to enforce in america
People dont realize how much open space there is

With all the incoming automation, universal basic income makes sense. The jews have stolen production growth each year via the keynesian model; they need to pay up. Federal reserve needs to be gotten under control for this to work though. Unfortunately, that's a long way away.

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>>139852206
this and will increase inflation like hell. and let's talk about immigration, million of shitskins from africa and middle east find about this, 4-5 million will come to europe and usa every year, the system will collapse in 1 decade, maybe less. and muslims and niggas will fuck like rats, and europe and usa become africa.

>>139847746
the economy may grow, but the root cause of societal rot will be made even worse

>>139858299
>Banks don't produce anything, but they also accumulate more money because of usury, transfer fees, and can request currency injections depending on the severity of economic downturns
>Those niggers who took the loans for mortgages but never planned on paying them back don't work or produce anything
>I know what ta do! Let's take the labor of people who actually work, and make them pay for it! Dese stupid schwarzes aren't gonna produce anything, but all these otha goyim who don't even use my banking instatution will bail me out!
>The currency people earned by laboring is taken out in the form of a (((tax))) to bail parasitic banks encourage inside/outside resale resale of houses to inflate their price
>Oy vey, if we haden't been bailed out da whole econamy would have suffad!

The problem continues on to eternity, and the producers are left indentured to pay off the loans of the lazy niggers. I'm not sure what the case is in france, but here in the states Obamacare kinda does the same shit, except insurers and doctors are obligated to provide a service, although at ridiculously high prices. Defaulting would have taken control away from the most parasitic banking entities, and lynch mobs would have formed to collect due from those who causes all the economic havoc. Notice that we never get the names of the worst offenders, no executives, salesmen, those who encouraged and endorsed all this debt accumulation by the signing of a paper. No, the bailout protected conmen from lynchmobs potentially numbering in the millions.

>>139859281
Depends mostly on the university and the faculty.
Liberal-arts, especially literature, theater and modern/Israeli history are thoroughly leftist and openly post-Zionist/anti-Zionist.
STEM are a reflection of society as a whole. Thankfully, Israel has the second-highest STEM ratio in the world.

>>139857494
1.8 trillion.

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>>139847746
Oh no, looks like your study was conducted by a communist think tank. This "study" also wasn't an actual study.

>>139859858
>>139859281
Oh, and it's also a matter of the institution.
Tel Aviv Uni is notoriously left-wing (as Tel Aviv is as a whole).
Haifa Uni is very anti-Zionist, but that's probably because like half the students there are Arabs.
Overall, things are pretty timid. If anything, some institutions such as Ariel Uni (located in the "occupied" territories) & Bar-Ilan (religious) are heavily slanted to the right.
But most importantly, Bezalel is ground-zero for all the most horrid leftist bullshit Israel has to offer, right on par with California.

>>139847746
>Reasons to work
>Enjoyment
Not every country is Germany you know..

>>139847746

We really need to start looking for an answer to the liberal question.

>>139850221
Only ingenious people (people who work productively, farmers, builders, etc) will have autonomy then, but honestly most people are stupid so they'll want to finally control every single aspect of society

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>>139847746

>>139859272

>>139859481
>UBI would eliminate the waste of the welfare system
Would it really? Let's investigate what happens.

Currently only a relatively small pool of people get a hypothetical $1000 per month in subsidies, foodstamps, etc.
Now we're gonna give everybody that amount of resources, but in flat out cash instead of tickets.
First we need the money to do this. You can't just print it and pretend anything will improve, the prices would simply adjust and nobody would be any better off.
$1000 would effectively become the new $0.
Nah, you need to get it somewhere else, somewhere where people have invested time and energy in producing the wealth.
Invariably, and people will clamour for this too, this wealth will be found with the rich, and the only way gouvernment has to take their resources is to tax them.
So the gouvernment raises taxes in all fields that affect the rich, job done. Right?
What do you think the rich will do. Will they accept this? Some if them might, but there's a threshold for everyone.
Most rich people will leave the country and take their wealth and skills with them.
Unfortunately the rich are also employers, so you can kiss goodbye to shitloads of jobs too.

Now we have to sort this out.
The gouvernment starts raising the taxes even higher to fund the UBI, necessary because the pool of rich people is smaller. More rich people leave, more unemployment.
Eventually the gouvernment will have to start increasingly taxing the commoners too for UBI, but they can't afford that so either we get tax dodging, or demand for goods will capsize and nuke the economy.

It's already going awfully communist, isn't it?
Well we can stop some of this by outlawing emigration before the rich leave, but then they just cease bothering. Why put the effort in when the dividends are all siphoned away to complete strangers, who themselves have no incentive to work harder for the same reason.
From there on its a slippery slope to the USSR.

That's why I worry.

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>>139847746
Why not donate blood, that helps you earn cash and you do something in return

>>139847746
>Average citizens are now at the whim of those who own the technology that produces everything thus increasing income inequality by orders of magnitude
Neat.

>>139848268
literally kys

>>139847746
It's a jewish tirck to get (((socialists))) into power.

How bad would non white migration become because of this and what would it do to prices ?

I can say with some degree of certainty that rents would go through the roof

>>139848828
Kek'd

>>139859797
what if we have UBI but closed borders?
inflation will go up, but you'll have more dollars too, savings will get wiped if you keep them in deustchemarks

>europe and usa become africa.
how is that different from now?

>>139857673
Tell me your secrets. How do I become you?

After basic income I'm not working. Fuck helping others, fuck meeting people, self can't be improved any more and the moment you turn something you absolutely love into a job you stop loving it.

Basic income = nobody ever sees me again and I cease contributing to society at every level.

>>139848898
At the same time the economy will inflate by exactly by the amount of the handout because, lets be real, it isn't coming from taxpayers. They are going to print it. This is retarded on so many levels.

>>139850221
so how is that bad?

>>139860860
UBI using taxes for payouts is fucking stupid, and will lead to the final chapter of atlas shrugged

better to inflate away, at least there will be high currency flow, at least the rich won't be forced to sponsor the waste of money called welfare

inflate away, so everyone feels the burn of a degrading currency, we're heading that direction anyway without UBI

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Charles Murray on UBI:

http://www.aei.org/publication/a-guaranteed-income-for-every-american/

>>139847746
Wow, a new study! It has to be correct, so let's just read the article about it and not the actual scientific papers behind it, if there are any.

Just how the trillions upon trillions of dollars already printed grew the economy?

>Nobody works
>Nobody produces anything
>Society decays from decadence
>Men readopt savage values and take what they want by force and old fashioned slavery
>Our descendants wish for the pseudo utopia we had
>History repeats itself

>>139862061
What if the tax writers figure out a way to tax 50% of income generated from automation?

>>139855256
So? Let them be lazy, jobs will be well paid and give you a much higher living standard then. fair deal, isn't it?

muh ((( studies )))

>>139862649
muh (((you)))

>>139847746
>This study we did found us exactly the answers we wanted.

>>139862573
So the incentive for someone to produce something is to give 50% of what he produces to people who gives him nothing in return?

>>139847746

Imagine how giant and expensive a bureaucracy would be needed to administrate that shit

>>139862607
If the rest of society consumes more things won't get cheaper, you can work yourself to death producing more, but if gibs are taking the goods you produced and putting them in the hands of those that don't work eventually the consumption will outpace the the output of goods. A higher standard of living is only possible if a high volume of resources or good is produced. You live in Germany, your money is being reallocated through taxes to pay for lazy natives and refugees.

The only way UBI could work is if the gov abolished ALL entitlement programs (1.6T per year) and doubled all taxes.

UBI would cost about 3 TRILLION per year, not counting operational costs.

>>139852313
This. And it will work.
The vast majority of humans will gladly trade away everything for a comfortable life at the nanny state's expense. Especially the non-whites.
We are entering a dystopian nightmare.

>government provide cash supplements to low income workers pay
>give subsidies and cash awards when undergoing training to up-skill and improve employability
How is this for a welfare system? Done in my country, no free cash handouts for anyone aside from the ~0.5% who hit rock bottom.

>>139862758
It changes the paradigm for what is profitable to automate, yes. However, as technology increases and automation becomes more efficient, there will still be increasing automation, and thus increasing capital produced from automation, and thus more UBI from a 50% tax on profits derived form automation. If you're arguing that the owner who is automating won't comply with the tax, see the laws for tax evasion.

http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Modeling-the-Macroeconomic-Effects-of-a-Universal-Basic-Income.pdf

Here's the research, read it yourselves you retards, especially those spouting 'muh taxes' and 'muh inflation'

>>139847746
And this 1000 bucks every nigger gets are generated out of thin air?
Since the jews know how to avoid tax, i have a feeling where they will get this extra money for nigger gibbs.
Small businesses and working class white man.
Fuckin commie jews i swear.
Racewar nao!

>>139847746

Most legitimate economists think it's a bad idea.
http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/universal-basic-income

The money has to come from somewhere.

So you either hike taxes, a bad idea for a variety of reason, or you take this from existing entitlements.

Both of those are terrible ideas and the benefit is some supposed growth that happens like follows:

find a trillion dollars somehow
give it to people in the form of ubi
???
profit

If you're doing it as a sneaky way to slash entitlement programs or keep them from growing, then I will give you points for that.

>>139863291
The policy pays for itself by increased taxes.

This tax increase would have no effect on the economy.

Surprisingly, our debt based currency is good for debt-heavy policies.

>>139863178
So basically you just want another experiment with communism only now with better technology

I like how people assume Insurance, Rent, Phone, Internet, Utility, and Water won't just go up and that 1k will be sucked

>>139863530
>tax increase would have no effect on the economy.
Said no one who has read 10 pages of a basic economics book ever.

>>139847746
>autistic people think everyone else sees the world the same as them
do they really think that the Underclass of America are going to put down their 40's and chase their dreams because they have the rent and food covered for the month?
all UBI will do is increase prices and cause more people to give up and become deadbeats. these CEOs have never worked with or met the bottom of society, how would they know what people would actually do?

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>>139847746
George W. Bush literally, LITERALLY did exactly this. I got a big ass check for nothing. It had ZERO net economic impact.

>>139863709
When paying for the policy by increasing taxes on
households, the Levymodel forecasts no effect on the economy.
In effect, it gives to households with one hand what it is takes away with the other

However, when the model is adapted to include distributional effects,
the economy grows, even in the tax-financed scenarios.
This occurs because the distributional model incorporates the idea that
an extra dollar in the hands of lower income households leads to higher
spending. In other words,the households that pay more in taxes than they receive in cash assistance have a low propensity to
consume, and those that receive more in assistance than they pay in taxes have a high propensity to consume
. Thus, even when the policy is tax-rather than debt-financed, there is an increase in output, employment, prices, and wages

>>139863600
Heck if I know anything about communism. It's just hard to ignore the possibility of distributing a massive amount of automatically generated capital desu. It seems feasible enough to me, assuming we're not allowing some weird model where we let the automators move out of the US, automate, then sell the product back to us at a lower price than companies who are paying the automation tax.

>250 million adults in the US
>1000 dollars per month per adult
>250 billion dollars per month
>12 months a year for 7 years till 2025
>250bi * 12 * 7 = 21trillion
Grow the economy by 2.5 tri
Destroy it by 21tri
Fucking communist geniouses.

>>139863965
>if we just tax people more so we can redistribute even more of some peoples money to others the economy will grow
'no'

>>139863989
And why wouldn't they move out of the US if they're getting 50% of their profits stolen from them?

>>139864060
We increased our debt by nearly that much in 8 years and we're not crashing and burning like all the armchair economists here say we were going to.

>>139864060
>doubling the debt in 7 years only from one welfare policy

impressive, even for the US I must say

>>139864157
What's your basis to disagree?

Why don't you read the paper?

>>139863868
UBI means less government benefits.

On the whole it's great, because dindus will spend $1000 on 40s.

DEY CANT GET MO MONEY FOR DEM PROGRAMS

>>139864157
Massive as fuck tariffs, and family back in the US

>>139864237
Obama tripled the debt in 8 years.

Not impressive at all.

>>139862997
I think this is a major part of the reason they want to shift to a cashless society. It is much easier to create money out of thin air if you don't have to go to the trouble of actually printing it. The currency is already almost completely arbitrary with no real value besides what we are told it is worth...why even call it money anymore...they should just alot everyone 1000 living points each month that have an equivalent value of 1$.

>>139864272
We can already see the harm of taxes today, what makes you think more taxation will be better for the economy? No new wealth is created by redistributing other peoples money.

>>139864364
Yes but not from one single policy.

>>139864365
The main push for a cashless society comes from Jews who want to cash out their derivative holdings into something "real" but can't because it's all fake money.

>>139864392
>harm of taxes

Where?

We're at record levels of wealth in this country and the dow is what 21,000+?

who would have thought that literally TRIPLING the debt would skyrocket the amount of wealth that is generated in this country?

>>139849703
Gee I never thought of it that way

>>139864356
>massive tariffs
We mercantilist now, already been tried, didn't turn out to be very good.

>>139864440
Obamacare and social spending, the exact area this policy targets.

doesn't matter if 100 different policies cost 1B and 1 policy costs 100b it's still debt and spending / taxing

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>>139847746
This is just a really wordy way of saying "IF WE GAVE 1 MILLION DOLLARS TO EVERY AMERICAN THEN NOBODY WOULD BE POOR!"

Its exactly the kind of stupidity worthless sophist intellectuals would get behind. Process of "intellectualism":
1: take an extremeley stupid childish idea
2: gather a group of equally childish sychophants to support it
3: re-explain the stupid childish idea using really big words and omit any information that doesnt support your stupid childish idea from working
4: declare all people who dont support your idea to be too stupid and childish to understand it properly

"Intellectuals" are just dumb people who want to appear intelligent, and this kind of stupid shit is exactly the kind of stupid shit they go nuts over.

>>139864517
Everywhere. As I said, you're not creating any new wealth by stealing from some only to give it to others. You're merely rent-extracting. In fact, you're spending money only so that you can take from someone else's surplus in order to hand out some of that surplus to others. No new wealth is created, the economy has grown 0%.

>>139864392

why create new wealth when it goes to the ones who own 90% of it anyway?

I see a lot of posts saying lazy people need to work, but what are people who lose their jobs to robots supposed to do? A future where machines replace a lot of human labor is coming, how else do we take care of people when millions of jobs are given to tireless and efficient machines? Jobs that will never come back?

>>139864703
(((They))) deserve it for being wealthy, of course.

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>>139864621

>>139862952
>you can work yourself to death producing more

thats why we invented robots and technology
wouldnt it be good to use it to our benefit? instead of being scared to use robots because it'll put people out of jobs

thats where the ubi steps in, it acts as a safety net, except it removes the stupid welfare system and can help stimulate the economy until consumption outpaces production which wont be a problem if we use technology

>>139864703
So you're just going to make the economy worse, in the name of UBI? Sounds really stupid.

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>>139864672
And how is wealth created otherwise in our current system? You seem to have a fundamental lack of knowledge of how our monetary system is set up.

What you just said explains what happens right now under our current system.

>>139847746
Well shit why stop there?
Let's do a $100,000 per month cash handout grow the economy by 250 trillion dollars!

>>139848668

/Thread

>>139864858

"worse" is really relative
you said it yourself, no new wealth is being created, but no wealth is being taken away from the system, only a very small minority who can really do without that much

You all know even if it does happen, and if prices do rise, you CAN kill and grow your own food right? This white fag can bake a mean ass loaf of bread. I'd feed you right while collecting that 1k free check

>>139864858
How's the economy worse if there's a 0% >>139864672 difference in economy growth between UBI and no UBI?

>>139864940
debt is pretty fucking meaningless when you're the superpower and the entire world counts on your consumerism and economy to survive.

Who's going to call in that debt? and what do they do when we refuse and what happens to their economy if we do default?

>>139847746
>communism

bin that fin

>>139864707
learn how to become a robot mechanic
learn a new skill
create a new profession

>>139847746
We're nowhere near the levels of automation where this may be the solution to what to do with lower IQ people who can't get a job.

>>139864707
Those robots only exist for hard manufacturing right now, that utopia is not possible yet (and probably won't be :^) ), but I expect there to be a restructured education system where you can go back and get a degree to find a better job. Get rid of those useless bullshit degrees though.

>>139865091

the debt means nothing because it's in US dollars
guess what the world's reserve currency is, motherfucker
rip my main nigger robert triffin

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>>139865176
The Antarctic central bank is owned by (((them))) too???

>>139864866
Wealth is created by entrepreneurs, using labor and capital to create things that others value.

Merely stealing from someone and give that to someone else creates no new wealth.

>>139865030
>worse is relative
If the economy is doing worse, that means its contracting. Standard of living goes down. It's not relative.

>>139865073
Because you're artificially inflating the money supply for one, but also you're removing huge incentives for people to be productive. Not to mention you're spending money in order to get your hands on others people's money, you're operating at a direct net loss.

>>139865198

That is why they're studying it now because it's around the corner. Not in a hundred years but less than 30 to 40 I would bet.

Ever been to an Amazon warehouse lately?

>>139865039
Do you have any idea how outdated living off the land is? It worked when there were 5 million humans and 350 killion buffalo, deer, elk, and antelope. Even then populations were depleted to near extinction levels from which we've spent 150 years working to restore to even a fraction of that prior level.

"I'll just live off the land" translated from idiot to normal is "fuck, id sure love to starve to death!"

>>139847746
You know, I had a thought about this a few days ago. Universal income is a GREAT idea. Automation will cause a lot of economic problems. That's inevitable. We could implement universal income in the United States.

The only way we could is if we put ALL FOREIGN AID to absolute 0. Keep all that money in the country and available to it's citizens and stop propping up the rest of the world with our tax dollars, especially the third world. It will never happen though because the same liberal echo chamber will screech their normal battle cries of racism, fascism, and you're a nazi!

I'm all for helping my fellow Americans get out of the ridiculous hole the overinflated "cost of living" shenanagins entails. A 600 square foot cottage should not cost an arm and a leg, just like a lot of other things in America.

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Actually fixed.

>>139847746
GIVING EVERYONE MONEY WILL FUCKING DEFLATE THE CURRENCY THE ABSOLUTE NIGGERS

You'll be rolling carts around full of cash for bread only

>>139865188
How do you afford to acquire those skills when you lost your job as a baker to Bake-mo-tron 5000?

>>139864940
cause everyone will quit their job and we'll be mad max in a week

they should adjust the amount up/down depending how the economy does

and the public should be aware the payments are not guaranteed, if it's not enough to live on, but a nice 'bonus' and they can't get dependent, it doesn't matter, just devalues fiat currency which is already being devalued

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>>139865508
But at least we all finna be billionaires nomsayin nigga?

>>139865522
You kill yourself because you are worthless.

>>139865638

The only place UBI has worked so far is Alaska/ at the state level because they have a guaranteed price commodity that will always be valuable even if it drops 20 to 30 dollars a barrel.

>>139849564
This is the basic fallacy of the Venus Project that so many Commies are hawking. With a straight face, they will tell you that "Everybody will do the job they want to" and it will all iron out.

Like all Commie systems, it ignores the Invisible Hand of greed that makes Capitalism superior.

Capitalism is the system most inline with Evolution.

>>139865372
>Wealth is created by entrepreneurs, using labor and capital to create things that others value.

So if everyone has the money to do this, what is wrong with it?

The economic models cited in the research paper seem to directly refute what you are saying about what would happen.

>>139865276
Restructuring education could be good, I wonder how difficult that would be in comparison

>>139847746
>Spend nearly the entire federal budget ($1000 x 250 mil US adult pop x 12 months = $3 trilion) to grow economy ~$300 million per year.

I wonder how John Maynard Keynes' tastes after being dead for 70 year since they suck his dick so hard.

>>139865745
Supply and demand.

The market would fix that problem.

Want to shovel shit? no? how about shoveling shit for $100 an hour?

Why pay $100 an hour to shovel shit? because no one wants to do it. Free market fixed it.

>>139856867
>i think most of them would still prefer the prospect of doing nothing for the rest of their lives


I don't understand why people still think this is that bad. I think we should create a society where automation lets us live without having to spend the majority of our time working. I think this would genuinely create a happier way of living.

>>139865372

a lot of people don't get to become entrepreneurs because their plans, ideas etc are overshadowed by simple existential needs that are oftentimes circumstantial

more people who got UBI = more people who wouldn't need to worry about basic survival = more entrepreneurs

also, I might be missing the point but how are you inflating the money supply by taxing the rich? say you take away $1000 from a rich guy and give $700 to the poor, and $300 to cover the costs (just a representative example)

there'd need to be strict criteria of course regarding who is taxed and ponder values that scale with income

>>139865746
But everyone doesn't have the money to do that, also is it rarely about the money but about the people.

Yes, of course the paper would refute that, it's a stupid fucking """theory""" trying to convince stupid fucks like you that printing trillions and trillions of dollars would somehow be good for society.

>>139865691
Edgy/10

>>139865746

Because as soon as you figure out a process, someone comes along and undermines it.

Uber, whatever that new food app is. It essentially removes delivery drivers now by turning everyone into a fucking delivery driver that has the app.

They're finding out ways of creating processes that undermine existing ones. Markets shift and old guy is left to die.

Taxi medallions used to be worth a long retirement. Uber, lyft and other locality ones are essentially killing that industry.

>>139865372
>Because you're artificially inflating the money supply for one
That's not how taxes work. You might be thinking of printing money without taxation.

>but also you're removing huge incentives for people to be productive
There's a higher threshold for investors to automate, yes. You'd also be eliminating a lot of the reason why people work, yes. They'd be going to work more out of their own volition and less for the mare minimum of material gain. I don't see a problem with people only working when they get some "enjoyment" out of the process. More entrepreneurs imo

>Not to mention you're spending money in order to get your hands on others people's money
It shouldn't be that expensive to meter the profits from automation then apply the tax to them desu.

>>139864844
If anything applies to /pol/, it's that.

>>139865987
>trillions of dollars would somehow be good for society.

And we have been doing that for 8 years now and nothing bad has happened.

Perhaps it is YOUR theories that are wrong, schlomo

>>139866135
We should have crashed hard in 2008.
Instead obongo deployed Keynesian economics and fueled the exact same system as before with even more debt money.

>>139866135

we've depressed the world economy which is why the fed has been slowly raising inflation.

He's not wrong, it was bad for the economy, it was needed to save it though. Being a slightly less shit option still makes it shit

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>>139866100
Newsflash

>>139865522
ubi can help, but why arent you saving anyway for unforseen events?
if UBI was a real thing, I'd be saving/investing, not wasting it on hookers

>>139865508
inflate, not deflate

>>139865396
sooner than that, 10-20 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SuGRgdJA_c

we could be having robots cooking perfect burgers without sneezing in them today if companies weren't such pussies about unemployment, and they'll be cheaper too, the robots can work all day and night

Japan doesn't need immigrants because they will use robots, no robot will convert me to islam

>>139866321
Only when you give tax breaks to the rich do they speculate too much, get too greedy, and fuck the economy.

The problem with the rich is that they have the wealth and power to crash nations, not poor people. That's why taxing them and keeping them in line fiscally is the smartest thing to do.

>>139864852

Food producing automation is still crude, there won't be fully self sustaining systems until we have humanoid robots to fulfill all the chores of planting and harvesting. People like Musk should hang for telling people that now is the time that everybody should be worrying about losing their job even though their Jew masters aren't willing to buy a robot if one is available. The systems we have now don't have the articulation required to do all forms of human labor. What we have now is a situation like with computers where the first ones produced are large, bulky, and you have to babysit them, we don't even have the tech required for articulation of fingers on prosthetic limbs. We are quite a ways off from everyone needing to worry about being replaced by something remotely capable of using fingers or opposable joints. All engineering that goes into specially designed systems is only made to work a certain way; a human body has fluidity that allows it to do many different things, we don't have that level of tech yet, so laborers have nothing to worry about at this point unless they have a limited number of very specific duties to fulfill.

>>139865941
>printing trillions of dollars would create more entrepreneurs
yeah.. no

>yo here's $1000 become an entrepreneur now
Not how it works.

Keep increasing taxes on the people who today pay 97% of all taxes. Surely you'll get even more revenue from that.

>>139864497
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark of the beast.