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Anonymous
Is /pol/ intellectually stale? 2017-08-31 06:05:37 Post No. 139749080
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Is /pol/ intellectually stale? 2017-08-31 06:05:37 Post No. 139749080
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I thought I'd snoop around far leftist forums and boards to try and get a better understanding of their views/ what they're thinking of certain events.
I found some interesting things, like how they are paranoid about subversion and infiltration much like /pol/ is and in a certain twist of irony believe it is the far right the is cause much like we claim it's the far left.
On the other end, I realized something. Some of these people were rather well-read and with any point they'd link several books and refer to multiple intellectuals and philosophers.
In all fairness people tend to do this when they suspect the person they're arguing with is unfamiliar with them to end the conversation and "win" but it made me realize that /pol/ hardly ever does this shit at all.
I get that leftists have an ass load of "intellectuals" who's works basically amount to vast nothing burgers but in all truth it doesn't seem like /pol/ has that many written pieces or people to refer to and reinforce their beliefs, or at least actively brings them up. It does indeed, make us seem reactionary and subscribe to any belief to prevent or accomplish a specific interest without actually exploring that belief (IE most people are here out of fear of being demographically replaced).
>TL;DR
I got my arguments trashed by people spamming a bunch of books and names because I didn't read them or know who they were talking about.
To fix this, we have to accumulate a list of good /pol/ reads and /pol/ people and all you lazy reactionary faggots need to get reading.
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>>139749080
Why do that when we can just shitpost and meme?
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>>139749080
>leftist intellectuals
Hahahahahahaha. Cute.
Yeah it's not the 30s anymore. That ship has long sailed.
>>
So you got owned in a debate with more researched people and don't like it... Good, don't cry cuz you don't have copy / paste comebacks. They probably wouldn't help you anyways
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>>139749080
> and in a certain twist of irony believe it is the far right the is cause much like we claim it's the far left.
What does this even mean?
>I got my arguments trashed by people spamming a bunch of books and names because I didn't read them or know who they were talking about.
That's why they are spamming them, retard. It's a debate technique. Demand that they cite any arguments with their own words.
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>>139749080
>refer to multiple intellectuals and philosophers.
but what if you didnt get you point/belief from a book? how do you source organic thought?
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>>139749080
Which books and names? Fake and gay shillpost without specifics
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>>139749080
>[snoop around leftypol] some of these people were rather well-read
Surely you mean 'rather well red'
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>>139749414
Because you'll get wrecked like me if you try to win that way.
/pol/ likes to talk about how these people are useful idiots who just take on stupid emotional driven world views rather than actually learn about it. Then we just go around shitposting and memeing. How do you know we aren't also "useful idiots" for something?
>>139749569
Yeah, on one hand they seemed really fixated on things that happened nearly 60 years ago. It was like a time capsule at certain points.
>>139749693
>What does this even mean
/pol/ says that the establishment is full of cucked leftists who seek to destroy national identity at the behest of Jewish supremacists, These other guys think it's the KKK and facists that are in control.
They basically think every antifa that was arrested at the last Berkley protest was unlawfully targeted and that white supremacists are given a light slap on the wrist as evidence. Though to be fair 90% of their backing to this claim was shit from over 30 years ago.
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>>139749080
>Some of these people were rather well-read and with any point they'd link several books and refer to multiple intellectuals and philosophers.
LOL nerd shit. You gotta understand that if your point cannot be backed up with common sense, it's likely not true. Con artists will list off tons of sources and other bullshit just to try to trick you.
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It's an aesthetic and not intellectual draw.
https://youtu.be/KAExa9P7hME
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>>139750176
I can link them, but I didn't want to reveal to "them" that I was there since they're probably here.
This was a response to a claim that modern academia was saturated by Marxism in attempt to explain to them that communism isn't nearly as shut down and persecuted as far right beliefs in the MODERN demographic.
>I don't know why people say this. What Marxist ideas? Mainstream economics is about as anti-Marxist as a discipline can be and just about no one in sociology is making a name in conflict theory anymore. There's only a handful of Marxist thinkers in academia that I can think of. Are you confusing Marxism with post-structuralism? Or deconstruction? Or postmodernism in general? Or is anything even remotely influenced by Marx impure for you, in which case we should throw out Joseph Schumpeter, John Dewey, Piero Sraffa and anyone in their intellectual lineages, given they have the same (or more!) intellectual proximity to Marx as Judith Butler, Jacques Derrida, or Michel Foucault?
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>>139750427
>KKK control the government
>nigger president
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>>139750963
Look at all those name drops, I have no idea who those people are. I have no way of responding. He has me because all /pol/ has ever said was that schools were Marxist and never went into detail.
I have an idea of what it is, all those "History of black feminists" and "Cultural classes" have all these anti-cultural identity ideas that /pol/ states are frankfertian. I don't know the actual naming conventions, thus I can't refute him without sounding like I'm ignorant of Marx.
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>>139751207
You're right, I could have said Obama was president. I had a gut feeling they'd find a way to refute that though.
One of their dishonest tactics was they kept lumping together communists and anarchists as the same. We all know Anarchists are hated by everyone and the most watched by any governmental body, but they claim it's because of fascists and anti-communism. It's like how trannys muddle the difference between gender and sex for the maximum victimization.
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>>139750963
>Are you confusing Marxism with post-structuralism? Or deconstruction? Or postmodernism in general?
Let me translate for you:
You just called this a cup, it's clearly not a cup, are you confusing it with a mug, or a goblet, or a chalice, or a grail, or a stein, or cannikin?
I mean ignore the fact that they all contain liquids and you can use them to drink, you must be confused.
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>>139750963
>>139751361
This person is trying to discredit your point by defining Marxism as narrowly as possible. The namedrops are red herrings intended to send you off into the weeds. He can come back and argue that he meant anything by those sentences. (Of those I've only heard of Derrida and Foucault, but their ideas are squarely in the commie trash pile.)
Read the definition of postmodernism on Wikipedia. It's practically a restatement of Marxist dialectics. The leftists, some stupidly, some willfully, will try to argue that these two schools of thought, which do not differ at all in substance, are two completely separate things.
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>>139749080
If you get rekt by fucking lefties, that's pretty embarrassing.
The only arguments they can possibly bring are correlation/causation fallacies.
Saying "x said y" isn't an argument.
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>>139752826
>>139752089
So basically, My suspicion they were just trying to shut me down by sending me on a wild goose chase was correct? I'll try to accumulate some of their book links but some of the websites look like they're commie blogs that need archiving. Also they mostly seem to focus on shit that happened a long time ago despite the insistence that once I read them I'll understand why they are the victims.
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>>139749080
Most of the right's arguments are based on statistics, objective facts, empirical evidence, and rational deductive thought processes.
I don't need a philosopher to tell me something that the sky is blue. I can figure out truth on my own.
Conversely, if you want to ignore truth and reality, you need mental gymnastics and postmodernism. it's generally easier to simply regurgitate someone else's thoughts in this field than to have an original thought.
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>>139753404
Yes, their arguments pretty much amount to "This isn't communism, its gommunism totally different."
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>>139749080
/pol/ isn't influenced by reading books. Remember, the Nazis were anti-intellectuals who burned books.
/pol/ is influenced by a blind, burning hatred of the Left, because the libtard SJWs hurt their fee-fees by asking them to use some new pronouns.
Once I realized this, I stopped hating you guys and started pitying you.
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>>139749080
books are for faggots and kikes
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>>139749080
Dude people on /pol/ refused to listen to a song if it doesn't fits their world view, I wonder how do you expect to make them read a book.
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>>139753713
>Remember, the Nazis were anti-intellectuals who burned books.
They burned books which supported degeneracy, i.e. primarily jewish books.
>/pol/ is influenced by a blind, burning hatred of the Left, because the libtard SJWs hurt their fee-fees by asking them to use some new pronouns.
Typical leftist projection. They always accuse you of what they know themselves to be guilty of.
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>>139753423
>>139753881
What about information on things like Fascism, National Socialism, libertarianism and basic Nationalism? Wouldn't it be useful for certain posters who champion those things to spread that information around?
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>>139749080
Why throw books at you when we can throw easy to read infographics with linked sources at you? Do you not like infographics?
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>>139754250
Being opposed to communists doesn't make you a Fascist. Most of /pol/ are ironically Nazis. The main thing which brings us all together is opposition to the red menace.
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>>139750407
underrated
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It is.
/pol/ used to be full of anons, if not spouting intelligent arguments, at least spouting new arguments and creating new content. Since the influx of new people since a couple years or so ago it's just the same rehashing of the same old posts. /pol/'s "intellectually" dead
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>>139749080
>Some of these people were rather well-read and with any point they'd link several books and refer to multiple intellectuals and philosophers.
People don't do this in normal conversations or on /pol/ because people realize that no one has time go go read a dozen books on a subject you are casually debating on the internet. Asking someone to spend a huge amount of time on something just to continue the debate is intellectually dishonest and poor debate technique. Only people who want to seem 2smart4u do this kind of shit, people who actually want to have a decent debate or convince the other person of their argument will try to find snippets or short articles to post instead of entire books.
tl;dr: you're arguing with a bunch of elitist circlejerkers who don't care about debate, only appearing smart or "winning".
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>>139754482
>Do you not like infographics
They're fine, but I always felt they were easier for people to denounce because unlike a link you have to tediously type in the address yourself meaning people will be less likely to check the sources. People who know this can then make bullshit graphics to bait.
For example, the dick size info graph that arbitrarily namedrop Women's Health without a source that people keep falling for/
>>139754579
That's a bit dishonest though, because what if all those things actually have benefits or downsides? What if /pol/ takes the irony too far and ends up supporting fascist regime? If it's good and everything they wanted then they got lucky, but if it's bad then all the commies will just laugh at us for being "useful idiots" like we call them for subscribing to beliefs that don't actually benefit them.
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>>139750686
>LOL nerd shit. You gotta understand that if your point cannot be backed up with common sense
Spoken like a true retard.
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>>139752826
>i can't understand subtle but significant differences.
>obviously the ebil communists are just trying to confuse me
HURR
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>>139754482
Pseudo intillectuslism.
The left has largely censored any right wing ideology or philosophy.
So in most cases to find this kind of thinking you need to find primary sources from the 19th century. Stumble upon the relevant material. Be redoubled and insane enough to understand the value system and culture it was written in.
Then you have to find a group of like minded people in a forum where you can share those ideas. That is not easy.
Reddit for example will ban you for citing the founding fathers or any philosophy of the founders, civic religion, stoicism, etc.
Basically the entire world is an echo chamber and the only thing that can get out because of structural defects and censorship are memes.
Aka propaganda. It's sad really. Such a rich and enlightened history being destroyed for vanity.
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Referring somebody to a source isn't an argument, it's a deflection. Of course, citing evidence is an exception but when you're discussing ideas and ask a question, and they simply say "just read this entire fucking book", they're not providing anything of value to the discussion and you should discard their opinions immediately.
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>>139755395
>What if /pol/ takes the irony too far and ends up supporting fascist regime?
That's just it, communism is so terrible that even a fascist regime would be preferable. This was official US policy during the Cold War. They routinely toppled socialist and communist governments and replaced them with tinpot dictators.
Fascism may be bad, but it deserves community service compared to the death sentence communism deserves
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In other words, they're too lazy or ineot to discuss ideas and instead rely on others to "educate and inform" you.
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>>139755507
That's not a dragon, it's a wyvern. I mean they are both giant lizards which fly and breath fire but they are totally different.
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>>139750427
Libertarians are the right wing version of useful idiots.
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>>139749080
>they'd link several books and refer to multiple intellectuals and philosophers.
There's their problem right there. We don't link books and opinions. We link sources and statistics. They live in a fantasy land. We live in the real world.
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>>139756026
That's not fascism, it's communism. I mean they are both authoritarian and are for the people but they are totally different.
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>>139749080
> tfw too smart to read (((books)))
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>>139755249
>tl;dr: you're arguing with a bunch of elitist circlejerkers who don't care about debate, only appearing smart or "winning".
/thread
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>>139750427
>how do you know we aren't useful idiots for something?
Because our ideas tend to manifest towards liberty and individualism, whereas communist ideas always manifest towards authoritarianism and the suppression of liberty.
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>>139749080
Telegram (if you use it) has a library called @Iron_Link with any relevant study on race an economics you could wish for.
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>>139756319
lol, the right has been using the "Nazis are socialists" argument for a long time now. Nice try though.
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>>139749080
nigger there's tons of /pol/-approved reading lists, but the problem with citationfests is that nobody fucking reads them. People spam that shit to distract you, not discuss the meat of arguments because they don't have any
books are good, but it is better to discuss the matter directly instead of citation games. anybody citing anything means they've probably read it, so why bother citing when you can just say what's relevant right in your fucking face
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>>139749080
>far leftist forums and boards
Could you link them?
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>>139749080
There are few modern right-wing intellectuals. The only people that we can point to are fairly easily debunked ancient sources like Aristotle and Marcus Aurelius. We don't need some limp dick Marxist NEET living in his mother's basement during the 19th century to tell us how to win a culture war. Communism failed due to reality ruining its formalised and intellectual coherent development.
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>>139756697
>literally agreeing with my point undercutting his whole argument
subtle significant differences you retarded nigger
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>>139756730
No, but I'll give you a hint. What is Adolf Hitlers birthday?
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Read the third globalization.
anything about Taiwan, Ireland or Israel is good reading.
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>>139749080
>look at all this sophistry clearly their logic is superior
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>>139756882
Fascist, nazis and communists are all bad. We defeated the fascists and nazis 80 years ago, now we have to crush the communist infiltrators. Your point undercut nothing.
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>>139755507
It's a trilby not a fedora... however, that's irrelevant to my criticism of you.
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>>139757124
It's an appeal to "authority"; it's a fallacy.
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>>139756982
cheers
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>I read a book therefore my opinion is valid
Really because I just used the whole of mans knowledge called the internet that says you're a faggot.
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>>139757221
>evil people bad your logic is gay and ineffective
FTFY
>>139757251
>person who never read any of the relevant material is the ultimate objective arbiter over how similar they all are
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>>139749080
NO! The posts here give me life. I bet some of you could write a good book desu
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>>139757124
>>139757285
You can't expect everyone to know that. If it was an ineffective fallacy it wouldn't be used so often
>>
>I got my arguments trashed by people spamming a bunch of books and names because I didn't read them or know who they were talking about.
>To fix this, we have to accumulate a list of good /pol/ reads and /pol/ people and all you lazy reactionary faggots need to get reading.
You would've known if you would've lurked more being a newfaggot fresh off the boat from reddit doesnt help.
So get reading you nigger and drop the leddit spacing.
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>>139757724
You are a communist and we aren't going to argue with you we are just going to bury you.
>>
Books for /pol/ reading
https://mega.nz/#F!B4dB2SzQ!h_pMC30v2a_y31iD0dy0sg (/pol/ stuff I)
https://mega.nz/#F!0F5GXTjS!oGdz8UP5JbcleNMy6YKLvg (/pol/ stuff II)
https://mega.nz/#F!cZoSEbpC!kdnYuLw3hvYSus9uZl6PRQ!QNAixJZL (/pol/ stuff III)
https://mega.nz/#F!4MJE0L6Q!teKAfBlT2m3Ija-Tun-EFw (/pol/ stuff IV)
https://mega.nz/#F!pYRnSJaC!HrC3Siqyioo9PjdGMNWs3Q (/pol/ stuff V)
https://mega.nz/#F!LotEVRxT!YE-YrG6SZ54nJqltrYN8Nw (/pol/ stuff VI)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!scMFjYZY!MKTKFWGVVuA7kV4OMHgkcg (/pol/ stuff VII) (Link is Fucked)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!fo0TDC4a!Ck2n3wuqWutm3FyLtxZB8A (/pol/ related)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!UdxSVLJB!bgBwqzuFIV3z0HvCswA0dQ (/pol/ related)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!eMs1HDRD!LJcwVTJXhhx1a5bUu2l0dg (/pol/ related)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!6sgETKCa!vGFF5iTfCR6lH3ZLXaQorQ (TGSNT, William Pierce, Icelandic Sagas)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!zQtglTAY!JZ8y7bZpqPz6od5WmtLfIg (Third Reich films)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!MQ8ziQKK!rzb0LRaZoyL6te1tguBNnA!RBs1mRhC (Third Reich recordings)
https://mega.nz/#F!fIchVA7Y!owKwAgGKq9pgXrbVOnkeag!7dEXGAAI (Asatru / Paganism)
http://pastebin.com/v6qsewmw (/sum/ info)
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ!8VxzyY7Y (Occult literature I)
https://mega.nz/#F!RktiXZBS!W_ZvtntvNvWxvsSYZCG_vg (Occult literature II)
https://mega.nz/#F!6kJzEIJb!aVVgmWAM-aP_bU_8Co43FA (Occult literature III)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!K8wTjbiZ!mWFZsQRr2SZYC1AsoE6Shw (Occult books, big file size)
https://mega.nz/#F!sU90kbAR!pXKWaWnZcY8eTIA2wUSDBA (Full Sinister Tarot)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwLJ8mj-ZuoGc0NKUEtoLTBmQXc ("Mesmer's Lair", hypnosis etc.)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!m00SjRRA!R_I9wzUTEhSN6spP35TyZg (Psychopolitics)
https://mega.nz/#F!1R0QATqZ!Eb1_M5KC9gkxK6w32R2ETw (/biz/ related)
https://www.mediafire.com/?i44dwzkf9j9n8 (art)
https://mega.nz/#F!MQBRHBJA!L_on3h-XUrtbc719UaMygw (philosophy)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4FJSUTyL!gRWJW5eBK0ydunfSzDB3xg (/k/)
https://pastebin.com/JN01tWVF (Languages & Linguistics)
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>>139749080
citing philosophers & scholars is what someone who just picked up a book does, later you synthesize all that knowledge and make your own arguments
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>>139757890
ain't clicking that shit nigga
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>>139757852
>Newfag
I've used /pol/ since the SOPA scare first emerged. Doesn't mean I haven't been terrible in reading /pol/ links though. Remember this is more of a news board than something that goes into deep discussion. I guess happening addiction won out in the end.
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>>139757852
/pol/'s dead anyways. There's nothing worth saving.
>>139757861
>your arguments offend me, where's my safe space?!
Stop LARPing nigger and practice what you preach
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>>139749080
Leftypol is much smaller and retards who don't read theory post less
Our side has well read people they're just scarce among all the entry-level shitposters
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>>139750963
Always define your terms before engaging in debate, this makes it easier for all involved. The person who replied to you is correct to the extent that say postmodernism isn't actually Marxism. If instead you had attacked the assumptions that in fact underlie all of these philosophies (e.g. "modern academia is saturated by fundamentally liberal notions like egalitarianism, individualism, etc") then your case would have held much better against such a comment.
You're learning, which is good. Don't hesitate to read your enemies works, but be selective since a lot of their literature is a waste of time.
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>>139757890
damn, I'm gonna overdose
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>>139749080
Fuck off lefty pol.
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>>139758029
Are you retarded for leddit kekistani faggots there is like a lifetime worth of books to read in there.
And then they ask us why we need the swastikas,its to fend of retarded normalfaggs that are in it for the laughs and refuse to read or do shit.
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>>139758127
Don't worry, you'll get your free helicopter ride.
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>>139758410
Just like the race war right? :^)
I'll just wait until the Alt-right shoots itself in the foot again like in Charletsville then we'll be giving you the helicopter rides.
Have a nice day you white trash nigger
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>>139749080
You can cite a thousand Marxist books, the fact that there have been no successful communist countries tells me that books don't mean shit. It's just a fancy drawn out way to shitpost.
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>>139758108
No this is more of whatever the fuck board you want to be.You used to be able to find some of the deepest and most autistically interesting discussions on the interenet here.If you really were an oldfagg then you would know that any /pol/ user will be a newfagg forever.
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>>139758786
lol I'm not even white. You don't realize how many enemies you've made. You will turn the whole world against you.
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>>139757963
This, if they really had such a deep understanding of the authors they're referencing they'd be able to operationalize that knowledge into a specific and concise refutation of whatever point you're making
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>>139753713
Explain the technological advantage of the Axis forces if they were so anti-science.
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>>139749080
I wouldn't ask advice from people literally praising a cartoon frog and calling transexuals redpilled.
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>>139749080
>asks /pol/ for books to read
>is so new that he's never seen a /pol/ reading list thread
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>>139750963
tl;dr
>I don't know why people say this. But here is a list of opinionated authors who agree with my argument
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>>139749080
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>>139760315
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>>139749080
FYI, 70% of shill threads are pol regulars trolling you newfags, because you are too easy.
Also, read some books fagget. There's plenty of right wing book lists.
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>>139757890
nice!
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OP here, My computer just shut down abruptly. Either coincidence or I made a grave mistake telling that britbong the forum I was arguing on.
They would be insane enough to attack me over this thread. If I don't make it out of this tell /pol/ I loved them.
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>>139760544
It's good training too. Like newfag bootcamp.
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>>139760315
>>139760372
>no mention of Mein Kampf
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>>139761323
Could you link to the general forum? I do not care about your thread.
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>>139762565
I gave a hint already.
>>139756982
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>>139749080
Commies/postmodernist are deluded.
>They want to trap you in their intellectual framework.
>They want you to use their words. Eventually you will fall in their trap of cognitive disonance. >Big chunks of text of literally NOTHING.
>They can't deffend arguments in plain english. and short sentences.
It's like muslims with the koran.
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>>139764503
Speaking of Muslims. There was one thread where some guy was trying to rationalize why people resort to tribalism. None of it really seemed political biased as far as I could tell. Someone mentioned muslims and other people posted run-of-the-mill defense posts. Someone was clearly trying to call Wahhabism a branch of islam in an effort to define islam as being a broad range of belief.
I countered it by pointing out that unlike Christianity, Islam is not very diverse in thinking. I made the mistake of making a point out of the two mainstream denominations of islam and they linked somewhere around 13. I started reading the list and found that these differences were all very arbitrary and none focused on interpretation of the Koran. Rather, they focused on differences outside of the Koran (Imams vs. Caliphs). It seems I was actually right, their diversity of thought was negligible. They were hiding behind naming conventions to maintain the illusion of diversity so they could say "not all muslims".
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>>139762868
Well, just give the website or you are lying. Nobody is going to care if you frequent 4chan. Besides, nothing comes up if you look up 1889.
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>>139749080
kys worthless nerdfag
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>>139753713
i'll take your pity, fucking shill. and fuck off
t. reads books
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>>139765551
Not the year, the day you retard.
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This time next when, I think a very important lesson will have been taught and learned.
Bullies will not be tolerated. They are bad examples for any and all society.
This includes "all sides", and Nerfkora
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>>139749080
>I thought I'd snoop around far leftist forums and boards to try and get a better understanding of their views/ what they're thinking of certain events.
What a broad statement. What makes you believe that we're all left wing? Or even far leftist?
>I found some interesting things, like how they are paranoid about subversion and infiltration much like /pol/ is and in a certain twist of irony believe it is the far right the is cause much like we claim it's the far left.
We're paranoid about more than just subversion, anon.
>On the other end, I realized something. Some of these people were rather well-read and with any point they'd link several books and refer to multiple intellectuals and philosophers.
Yes, because some of us are. But anyone can spout of names of books they recommend that you read.
>In all fairness people tend to do this when they suspect the person they're arguing with is unfamiliar with them to end the conversation and "win" but it made me realize that /pol/ hardly ever does this shit at all.
You're thinking that all we do is argue and get angry about topics. Incorrect.
>I get that leftists have an ass load of "intellectuals" who's works basically amount to vast nothing burgers but in all truth it doesn't seem like /pol/ has that many written pieces or people to refer to and reinforce their beliefs, or at least actively brings them up. It does indeed, make us seem reactionary and subscribe to any belief to prevent or accomplish a specific interest without actually exploring that belief (IE most people are here out of fear of being demographically replaced).
You're implying that we're published authors or literary geniuses. We're not and we don't seek to be. We like a friendly and sometimes unfriendly debate and to shitpost.
And I prefer audiobooks. Much more efficient.
>>
>>139750427
>the KKK and fascists that are in control
Part of the problem with arguing with someone who thinks that is the KKK and fascists pretty much ARE in control... thanks to useful idiots on the left! The KKK is the Democrats!
It's like, argh! It's not even wrong. The constant DARVO assault has twisted accepted reality around until truth isn't even in the Overton Window.
>>
>>139750427
>/pol/ says that the establishment is full of cucked leftists who seek to destroy national identity at the behest of Jewish supremacists, These other guys think it's the KKK and facists that are in control.
Zionism is very very real, anon. Please wake up and see that.
>>
>>139757285
>sources are "appeals to authority"
Spoken like a true brainlet
>>
>>139766469
I think his point just posting books without trying to integrate what is in them into an argument means nothing.
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>>139767843
Are you talking about this>>139750963?
If so, then the guy did not just enumerate books. And he is right.
The majority of modern day (((socialists))) are Marxist in name only. This is especially true if we are talking about american liberals.
And if you consider everything with a hint of Marxism as Marxism, then There are whole schools of thought that are Marxist, even thou you don't associate them.
I have to agree with you that the enumeration of philosophers was kinda of a dick move, sort of someone sucking his own cock, but that does not make him wrong
>/pol/tards cannot understand arguments made by leftists
>therefore leftists are wrong
Disgusting.
And before you discount my opinion "because i am a dumb lebtixt", i am a right-winger disgusted by the anti-intellectualism espoused by the majority of my fellow right-wingers
>>
>>139765938
>>139766147
>What makes you believe they are far-left?
Lots of posts implying marxist and anachist sympathies, the belief in fascist control and anti-fascist sentiment. The mods keep banning or locking all right wing threads beyond a general.
>the rest of your post
I'm not that ignorant of /pol/, I just haven't seen a good educational thread in a while.
>>139766147
I'm aware, I was making a point that they had similiar rhetoric but blamed fascist, creating a weird parallel.
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>>139749080
You're surprised like what? 20-50 people has read more books than you?
Sure, some authors share great wisdom, but some just end up corrupting your mind... I'm gonna go ahead and guess you were debating commies.. of course they would be paranoid about someone using their own tactics against them. The problem with communism is that it operates on so-called idealism, but the world doesn't and can't function as a Utopia, that's why they came up with the term "social parasites" which was a label they gave to anyone who didn't work, no matter what...
Whats a material worth when you do not possess tools?
>>
>>139765805
Ok? I looked up 20 and still got nothing (mostly children's books on counting past the teen digits).
>>
>>139769322
>I just haven't seen a good educational thread in a while.
That's because /pol/ is filled to the brim with shills and slide threads...
>>
>>139769371
People really need to understand that reading books by itself is not the source of intellect.
Plenty of well-read people are absolute retards, books never offer counter-arguments.
Books are ok for initiation but debate and an open mind is the only way to acquire knowledge beyond what most plebs could demonstrate.
>>
The Federalist Papers and Yuri Bezmenov. I wouldn't waste my time with someone who has not understood both.
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>>139749080
American academia has spent billions of dollars of gullible middle-class parents' money on building specious arguments for their fairy stories. Right-wing thinking comes mainly from historical sources and basement dwellers frustrated by the obvious lies of the (((media))).
Communism spent decades building its intellectual base, and look what happened when they got their chance - the same will happen here.
>>
>>139770310
Yuri Bezmenov is a self-described misinformation agent. Only a fool would take his words at face value.
>>
>>139768939
It isn't necessary to be indoctrinated into the language game of marxists in order to critique marxism as a social phenomenon.
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>>139770417
>Only a fool would listen to an ex-KGB agent about techniques of the KGB.
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>>139749080
know your history
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>>139771743
>It's smart to uncritically listen to someone who spent his life as a professional liar in service of your enemies.
>>
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>>139749080
not the arena of /pol/ desu
check salo-forum or something
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>>139772736
I see no reason why it can't beyond being fast paced.
If /his/ actually let people discuss the intellectual right it would probably make the better board due to slower traffic.
>>
/pol/ is a rhetorical coliseum where everyone constructs their own arguments
"read this book because I cannot elucidate or argue for my positions myself" is the hallmark of a pseud
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>>139769806
Please don't be that retarded. you're fucking with me at this point.
>>
>>139749080
Why not just start a book thread instead of insulting us?
>>
>>139749080
that's because /pol/ uses facts and statistics instead of arguments from authority. don't be impressed when someone says "I'm right because x says so".
>I got my arguments trashed by people spamming a bunch of books and names because I didn't read them or know who they were talking about.
that's because you're retarded and don't know how to argue. you literally got beaten by fallacy.
>To fix this, we have to accumulate a list of good /pol/ reads and /pol/ people and all you lazy reactionary faggots need to get reading.
No thanks, I've done plenty of reading and I will stick to facts and statistics when arguing.
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>>139749080
It's because we don't need a 500,000 page, cleverly worded book of bullshit that deflects and beats up strawmans to push forward our agenda of COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
That's probably why. That, and the_donald has staled up the board a bit. They are radicalizing tho... so they are well on their way to becoming what pol used to be when it was the original hardlined autists who were well read.
>>
>>139778188
>they are well on their way to becoming what pol used to be
t_d is jew infested big time though
>>
>>139773300
exactly
just linking something as an answer without actually explaining anything is a means of dodging a question you can't actually answer yourself
Not to mention linking the book instead of explaining it or the relevant argument means they most likely didnt understand the actual argument being presented, they just know its applicable
>>
>>139777297
I didn't mean to insult, I just felt beaten the fuck out. This is what happens when you don't argue with the opposition enough.
>>
MPC is full of smart right wingers. /pol/ used to be good but it got really popular
>>
>>139760315
Having read most of the philosophy material in this chart I would recommend Hume, Kant, and Hegel, and skipping almost everything else on the entire chart unless it interests you or if you're a slow learner and cannot infer the redundant information from understanding the works of these philosophers. I also really like Heidegger's work but it's not for everyone, I am of the opinion that phenomenological reasoning best describes reality though this can be nothing more than an opinion like most outlooks more complex than Descarte's most famous quotation.
Orwell, Huxley, and Kierkegaard in particular are limp dicks.
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>>139749693
It means both sides are being played off one another considering they were 'allies' against a corrupt establishment prior to obama ;)
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>>139749080
>posts long drawn out, Reddit spaced text
>treats /pol/ like personal blog
>is a complete faggot
neck yourself, no one fucking cares what you think nigger
>>
>>139778578
The left uses some rather retarded philosophy to bolster their memes, but you'd do well to create an opposition reading list. What you felt was an 'unfamiliar memeplex' or 'culture clash.' I started reading Slavoj to troll the shit out of commies in their own language, but it turns out that marxists are marxists because they've no other methods of analysis. However, if you can speak their lanugage you can make them turn their critical theories inward.
Death by cognitive dissonance will follow, slow and painful, but, that's how commies roll.
>>
>>139778578
You don't even have to argue with a specific group. Arguing with anyone is good practice. 4chan in particular is an amazing place to learn how to argue, because you are dropped in alone with nothing but your words to defend you(no reputation, no friends unless you make them during the argument, no concern of losing face or offending the other party as you are anonymous so you can speak absolute truths no matter how harsh). You quickly learn how to identify faulty arguments, how to word your points so that they are difficult to find flaws or cracks in, and how to cover up and tuck away your mistakes if you happen to make them.
Some comedian philosopher once said "A philosopher who does not argue is like a boxer who does not step into the ring." Being practiced in argumentation is important if you have views that you wish to share with others.
>>
>>139778851
Apparently 74 people care to some extent including you. Observably.
>>
>you don't believe in communism?
Read X and Y book
Lmao
Screaming while falling out of a helicopter is not an argument
>>
>>139778367
I browse it at work from mobile for quick updates if there are any because most threads are on the frontpage for most of the day.... Hop into the comments section on some threads
((()))) posts are getting upvotes.. One time after Trump was accused of antisemitism and there was a thread saying ''hurr we love our based jews dont we pedes'''. I laughed but decided to hop into the comments... this was frontpage too... The comment section was full of AMERICA FIRST, REMEMBER THE USS LIBERTY and talking about Israel's role in our government.
The other David Coleman who created Commie Core was mentioned. Hopped into the thread and first comment was EVERY TIME, referencing his Jewish lineage.
I was worried at first about the degeneration of our board but I've seen a dramatic shift in opinion about the Juden on the_d lately. Maybe it's just me.
>>
>>139749080
The debate already happened, you missed it, we won, now we just shitpost in celebration
Unlike you some people actually do the required readings. Don't worry about it buttercup we'll carry your ass to the finish line
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>>139779750
The fall from a helicopter is 15 seconds of pure communist utopia. They've nothing to argue with and everyone is equal.
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>>139749080
Good threads get no fucking traction here.
It's just shitty bants threads here.
>>
>>139780146
If you think this is true it's because you are only participating in shitty bantz and not quality threads.
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>>139753404
They did what leftists always do: obfuscate
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>>139749080
Wait m8o, I'm here to shitpost. What's the point in debating with people than won't be convinced because they think you are inferior and your ideology pure evil?
>>
>>139749080
Ouch, sounds like you learned that you have to understand their arguments better than they do the hard way.
>>
>>139778774
>Kant, and Hegel
You can't seriously recommend people to read those in a vacuum, especially Hegel. It's basically sanskrit for the unprepared reader.
>>
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>newfags
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>>139749693
It means OP was somehow shocked that both sides are quick to blame the other when something happens.
>>
>>139749977
You can't cite it, you just have to present your reasoning.
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>>139780996
Hume prepares you for Kant, Kant prepares you for Hegel, though reading Kant is much easier paired with some third party material.
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>>139780678
Because it might be possible to convince them otherwise? Some of us were leftists until we discovered /pol/ and had some epiphany.
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>>139749080
ITT: tryhard children
>>
Leftist "intellectualism" (dialectics) is trash. It encourages ad-hoc arguments by forcing an antithesis to any political philosophy that actually works, but isn't "perfect". They can't think about problems individually from a rational standpoint, everything had to be defined by its opposite. For example, the leftist method of solving modern tension between the sexes has been to identify a thesis explaining the supposed problem (patriarchy), devoloping an ad-hoc antithesis with no real philosophical depth (feminism), and synthesizing the two into modern sexuality (demikin tranny shit). It started with a working idea and completely destroyed it, all to "solve" a problem that is unavoidable in the first place.
>>
>>139750427
ok retard say you read them but you forgot, or that it is irrelevant
>>
>>139751361
You could have asked him to state in his own terms what he meant by that. And if he calls you flat out ignorant by not having read what he has then he's making himself look stupid, not the other way around.
>>
>>139750686
>if your point cannot be backed up with common sense, it's likely not true
this, and basic philosophical knowledge is the key. I dont know about authors but i can defend myself with philosophy knowledge 99.999% comunists don t have.
>>
>>139753713
/pol/ = nazis is not true.
>>
>>139779877
Got any screenshots?
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>>139775376
Oh, I am most certainly not retarded, since the medical definition of the term is an 83 IQ and I have a 128 IQ according to my IQ test in second grade.
>>
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>>139782483
No, sorry. I don't take random screenshots of t_d comment section when I'm on the shitter browsing, unfortunately. I suppose I should though and post them. The David Coleman comment that was first in the thread that was on the frontpage happened yesterday actually. The one thread about our based bloodsuckers that hit the frontpage, where all the comments inside were shitting on Israel, happened maybe a few weeks ago.
It's all pretty recent. I wouldn't recommend you regularly go to it obviously, but just do what I do, browse it on the shitter and scroll through the frontpage. You'll see. There is a lot of crossposting and we really are breaking the conditioning.
>>
>>139751679
It's called not punching to the left, solidarity, blah blah blah. Marxists and Anarchists mingle in the same leftist circles, and in some of the more modern (as in the last three-four decades) anarchists movements there's a lot of overlap of ideology.
>>
>>139783000
The IQ metric is pseudoscience, I wouldn't put any faith into anything derived from social sciences. It's a subjectively defined metric developed from subjective parameters measured from subjective amounts of the population selected subjectively and pretends to be objective information. Most of the data I see presented doesn't even fit the metric as it defines itself, like world maps with global means of 85(impossible).
I'm just rambling about social science, I don't know who you're arguing with or why.
>>
>>139749080
"intellectuals" and "philosophers" aren't worth shit.
numbers don't lie. No matter what turd they try to polish the numbers still stand and many minorities suck.
I don't give a fuck about socialism as long as it provides universal healthcare. I don't give a fuck about libertarianism as long as shit is cheap. I do care that a quarter of my paycheck goes to niggers that hate me and I cant afford to help people I actually give a shit about.
Fuck them. Fuck their thought. Fuck their cause.
Until they don't represent a bunch of cucks lining up to suck ms-13 dick and pozzed nigger cum they can keep on walking. No fancy rhetoric can justify paying for your enemy to have a better quality of life than yourself.
>>
This is why I like 8/pol/, despite the obnoxious naval gazing they engage in. They at least had a monthly book list for a bit, and encourage studying. Sure, they approach it from an autistic perspective, but they can debate online without looking like total neophytes.
I enjoy the more chaotic/fun nature of this board a bit more, but good lord anybody here who's serious about politics and hasn't even read the most basic 50pg leftist pamphlets has no fucking excuse. You don't have to consume Evola or Foucault to be versed enough in political philosophy to be able to argue your points to a bunch of stoned Communists.
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>>139783494
>It's a subjectively defined metric developed from subjective parameters measured from subjective amounts of the population selected subjectively
>inb4 the burden of proof is on me
No, it isn't. IQ has been used for official matters for decades now, if you think it's pure bullshit, you are the one who needs to bring evidence
>>
>>139749080
>he doesnt know about the redpilled reading list
>>
>>139783000
IQ tests only really count when you're an adult.
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>>139755752
True, Even the case of Afghanistan. They rather support an Islamic state run by Mujaheddin than have Afghanistan run by soviet commies
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>>139749080
>/pol/
>intellectually stale
lurk more faggot, there's a book dump thread up RIGHT FUCKING NOW
>>139741134
>>139741134
>>139741134
GET IN HERE
>>
>>139749080
It's a punch to the gut when you realize that the board you are learning from and trying to better yourself with is just an echo chamber.
>>
>>139753713
National socialists and fascists were big fans of classical philsophy. Just because they burned your shitty arts and queer books doesnt make them anti-intellecutual. Btw they are anti-positivist not anti-intellectual
>>
Yes, there are sane leftists who would agree with us. The problem is lesbian bulldykes who maintain the "no enemies to the left, no friends to the right" attitude who constantly undermine any sort of positivist thinking. We would get along with select leftist intellectuals.
If they could ditch identity politics, we could drop dumbass libertarians and be a better whole. I've been on shit Reddit like srsdiscussions (avoid!) and they gulag anyone who who is only slightly critical, to the point of banning 50% of contributors.
Come to think of it, I think the problem are women with inferiority or Messiah complexes.
>>
>>139778774
Niqqa you have to make the plebes start from plato and the classics and work their way up wtf man
>>
I dunno man I wonder how many times you can belabor shit out of the communist manifesto and still think you are reaching people with your message. You wanna talk intellectually stale? How about people still trying to convince me that the operators of a machine have more rights to it than the owner.
>>
It also has to do with the middle-class roots of American leftism, aka progressivism. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but it's the smugness and dismissal of argumentation that really rustles my jimmies. It's like they've been taught in conflict conflagration instead of rationally understanding and solving problems
>>
>>139757251
Savage
>>
we are stale, we aren't used to winning and lack of major successes have likely deteriorated much enthusiasm
>>
>>139785708
A lot of these people claim to be anarcho-communists. They aren't keen on me trying to separate the two distinct ideologies for some reason. Like I said they keep swapping them and refer to antifa as anarchists.
>>
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>>139749080
/pol/ needs more anarcho-primitivism vs. transhumanism threads
>>
>>139783000
>128 in second grade
164 master race
>>
>>139786642
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle
Is a good read
Marx basically collected all the economic theory that was left by -proper- economists, and put Capitalism in a much broader context. This isn't a value judgement, it's just that the manifesto is pretty philosophical, and prematurely turning it into ideology was a mistake.
>>
>>139756813
Aurelius is solid imo, explain.
>>
>>139749080
Leftists really like to read books that echo what they agree with, the thing to remember is that said books are generally not based on reality or real events but instead on theories and other what ifs. They have some sort of belief that because some "intellectual" who's been in the ground for a century wrote a wordy book about a topic based on his own beliefs it's somehow fact even if it's nothing but a 300 page rant about his personal theories of how the world should've been run 150 years ago.
Frankly reading them amounts to fuck all aside from inflating your own ego, you're far better off learning about history, what worked and what didn't and why, real examples always hold up a whole hell of a lot better than some dead fedora tipper's dusty manifesto when it comes to serious arguments
>>
>>139755104
>>139755507
Now this is what high-brow leftist shilling looks like.
It's still gutter-tier misrepresentation and strawmanning, and it still relies on you to forget all context, but it's delivered from a wholly fictional moral and intellectual high ground created by tone and diction.
The OP argued that academia is full of Marxists. Someone said OP was confusing Marxism with postmodernism. The right-wing argument is that the subtle differences between the academic definition of Marxism and the academic definition of postmodernism aren't significant at all, that both are cultural Marxism.
>>
>>139786931
Anarchist: no state
Communism: egalitarian society that results after a Hegelian dialectic between proletariat and bourgeoisie. Note dialectic, it has to negotiate.
What it amounts to is: free gibs now. Ask them about the practical concerns of the means of production and how it won't fuck everything up like before.
Keep it simple and low to the ground to win the argument.
>>
>>139786862
Nah, it's just summer. All these dumbass kekistani's need to leave.
>>
>>139788737
>>139788737
I would but that would be out of context. The main theme of this debate is a rejection of the notion that the right wing is large and in charge the american political climate and responsible for the perceived political oppression of Antifa (which is semantically blended into communists and more often anarchists)
Sure Trump is in, but oddly very little of the conversation uses trump as evidence. They insist however that there is a bias that targets the left and forgives the right. They'll cite old shit like COINTELPRO as a current assault against leftism and ignore causes where the right is targeted.
They think the democrats are right-of-center, not left-of-center and deny people at Berkley and Charlottesville likely voted for Hillary and were protesting against Trump.
They basically think Alphabets are against them, not us and most of the debate has been about who's gotten fucked worse with them insisting they've been fucked the hardest. The worse thing is they keep falling back on Anarchy as if most nations don't already hate them. They clearly use this to get a "stand in solidarity" so that softer views on communism by the general public don't strip them of their victim status.
>>
>>139749080
For books etc. Dr layman and Aydin Paladin cite everything and are extreamly intelligent. Jorden Peterson is an obvious choice, but he doesn't cite shit.
>>
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>>139749080
>I got my arguments trashed by people spamming a bunch of books and names because I didn't read them or know who they were talking about.
Anyone can spam books but if they can not articulate an argument then the person you are talking with has not won anything. Finally, when in doubt always go to smug anime girl. It is the top of the argument pyramid.
>>
>>139789830
COINTELPRO was used in neo nazi groups too.
I think we need to drop left right politics all togheter and see what happens.
Just one day of issue based discussion, so people stops pretending that communism it's still a thing besides symbols and slogans.
>>
>>139782483
Nah but I can back up that many people on t_d are /pol/ users that simply clean up their act judging from the comments. they do cuck on "nazis" and stuff but theres a tacist understanding of white nationalism in that subreddit
>>
>>139749080
The average liberal is smarter than the average conservative; however, the left seems to end at around 110 - 115 IQ, whereas the right goes far beyond that. This is a problem. The large number of retards on the right hold the movement back.
>>
>>139749080
It's because far right rhetoric is self evident. I don't have to link you to some goy author to prove my point. You can literally look at statistics published by the government to prove what we say is true.
>>
>>139790953
>is actually representative of everyone in society
>is somehow a problem
>>
>>139790187
>COINTELPRO was used against nazi groups as well
I told them that, they threw more anti-commie / anti-anarchist shit from the 70's at me.
>>
>>139789830
Tell them to read the progressive garbage that flows from ivy league institutions every year. All of those professors and their work is directly used by think tanks and policy bureaus.
Most actual policy is done through NGO's, up and including "spreading democracy"aka war. Progressives have created this system through the FDR regime. Draw an analogy to the warlike nature of the former USSR, and how they are essentially created by the left wing.
The rightwing midwesteners just wanted to be left alone until the Clinton era.
It's hard to form these things into arguments, but you can find the original observations in the Unqualified Reservation s blog. Moldbug pbuh
>>
>>139749080
Go to 8 chan, the PDF board has a bunch of /pol/ books
>>
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Start documenting artists here too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAExa9P7hME
>>
>>139792703
Tell them the 70's sucked and the USSR had nukes, spies, propaganda, killed a record number of people and still couldn't keep their system running.
People were objectively happier after right wing death squads than before, and no dumbass hippie ever disappeared unlike in the USSR. The war justified it, and it was progressive east-coast lawmakers that did it.
>>
>>139793575
Here it's a radical idea for you, stop gloryfing violence in politics and maybe we can get past the CIA and the NSA for once.
>>
>>139749080
Sigh, I got tired today m8. I got tired of the fighting and the constant shitting from both sides. I just kinda want to be happy and think differently, but it seems impossible. Is like, the left spews hate all day long, then we spew hate all day long, then we get called "deplorables" and "bigots" "racists", I'm a fucking latino, and get called racist towards my own people. Then we call them cucks and snowflakes and then Antifa goes on a fit and burns half a city down and the moderate left is like "well, yeah... but nazis tho" and then those fucking retarded neonazis go and LARP pretending to be god knows what, and the left complains and we're like "well yeah... but commies tho" and I just want it to fucking end. Can't we just disagree on subjects but still respect each other? How the fuck does rooting for trump make me a bad person? Or a good one for that matter? Deep down, liberal, republican, democrat, conservative, we all want the best for the people, to live happily and to live free, why the fuck can't we just get along?
Except libertarians, those are fags.
>>
>>139793961
I'm not advocating any violence. It's a statement of fact that post-communist countries were worse off than countries under liberal-democracies.
>>
>>139749080
>I got my arguments trashed by people spamming a bunch of books and names because I didn't read them or know who they were talking about.
This is because the left can't win debates using logic, rationality, or facts. The only way they can "win" is through obfuscation, and appeals to emotion. They'll either try to shame you into submitting, or if that doesn't work (e.g. on anonymous message boards), they'll post a bunch of obscure books and name drop (((intellectuals))) you've never heard of, with the obvious implication being that if you haven't heard of these people, nor read their works, then you aren't even educated and informed enough to be engaging in a debate with someone of their intellectual caliber. They win by virtue of having read certain books (allegedly).
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>>139793575
I'm currently trashing their anarchy solidarity shit.
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