Why do we still have a 40 hour work week?

Ive worked 12 hour days every day since the 9th of this month. 40 hours a week isnt enough time to get anything done

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Look how brite future was supposed to be in Britain,
instead it's changing into Pakistan

>>139723767
Good to see government and university forecasts were just as shit then.

>>139724005
They should print some gloomy predictions, maybe they'd reverse the trend.

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>>139723143
The process of spending power going up is called deflation. If spending power were allowed to go high enough, it would be easy to support yourself on 20 hours a week.

Hilariously, this process of your money continually accruing spending power is fundamentally incompatible with Keynesianism, which is all about deficit spending. If you have huge debts, high spending power means you have to pay back way more.

The only way you can possibly have large deficits is with inflation, or a constant decrease in real wealth vs nominal wealth. Hence, longer work weeks.

>>139723767
This is depressing.

>>139723143
you think that's bad?
We made that mistake
twice.

>>139723143

Shit I wish for the day when I can make a respectable living off of 40 hours a week.

We need way more things than what they needed at the time of Keynes, so those same things that were needed by people 100 years ago, today are way cheaper, because improvements in productivity brought down cost, but on top of those we need new things that didn't even exist 100yrs ago, and those things come at a price: you have to work to earn money to buy those too.

Aside from that, you have to remember that many of us today, are not only working to pay for our things that we consume every day, but we're also working to pay for consumption made by people before us. We are paying taxes to pay public debt that other people enjoyed --> baby boomers. This drives down wages so you end up having countries like Greece where the average worker works 2000hrs per year, that means 40hrs/week for every single week of the year. On top of that you have pension systems, not only you are having 30% of your income seized by the government to pay for debt others made, you also have an additional 20% seized to pay retirement pension every month to those same people who left you that debt that you are paying.

In Italy for example the average worker works 40hrs/week, but with paid vacations plus other sort of paid leaves from work, he ends up working 1700 hrs/year. So that makes 32 hrs/week at the end of the year.

>>139726082
>30% of your income seized by the government to pay for debt others made, you also have an additional 20% seized to pay retirement pension every month

It's crazy to think that you're an actual slave for over 30% of the year. That's four months. I could almost tolerate 2 weeks of slavery for the common good, but it's really hard to see how government services are as valuable as one third of your remaining life.

>>139723143
I'm at work 40 hours, not working 40 hours.

>>139723143

Don't you get it already? The economy has been a one big scam for the last 100 years. They have been done everything in order to prevent shorter work days and longer holidays will continue to do so. Products with shorter lifespan so you have to buy news useless stuff all the time. Keeping certain amount of people unemployed because they don't want to share work equally between them. This shit will go on even next 100 years.

>>139725077
what are the opposite systems to keynesianism ?

>>139726531

Yeah I put out average tax rates.

Here in Italy the highest earners pay 43% of personal income tax. But they also pay mandatory social security, and it's double than your american social security that sits at around 14% as I see from Wikipedia.

So yeah, it's theft plain and simple.

On the positive side, we don't have to pay for health insurance.

Still I cant make up my mind about how some people say they can't make a decent living in the US working 40hrs/week. Here in Italy not only you have the outrageous tax rates that I told you about, you also pay gas 7$ per gallon. So every time you travel with your car, it's money ..

>>139727342
why are you blaming boomers for higher taxes ? when deficit is created by social policies(pensions,universal healthcare, welfare,etc)

>>139723143
Technocracy Movement 2.0, plz?

>>139723143
I usually work 50-60 hours a week.

t. engineer

>>139727523
Who are the ones who voted for these policies and are overconsuming from it?

>>139727180
Planned osbolesence for humans and consumer goods alike.

>>139727523

A part of public expenditure is needed to pay for those things you mentioned. A part however, is used to pay the debt boomers left us.

In your case, Lithuania has a public debt that's around 40% GDP, so you are not in deep shit as we are. We have more than 130%GDP.

>>139723143
The marginal production decreases every hour (if you work 6 hours straight produce less than 3 hours in 2 days) so yes, cutting the work to 6 hrs a day wouldnt have such a big impact in production. But why your jew owners would give you more time?

>>139723357
I do 12 hour shifts, sometimes I work 200 hours a month

>>139727855
>We have more than 130%GDP.
wat

>>139728132
The debt is 30% more than their GDP

>work in dental
>only 40 hours a week

sucks for you

>>139725077
>Keynesianism, which is all about deficit spending
Retarded bullshit. Keynes advocated for the government to use deficit spending during recessions to prop up the economy and then run a budget surplus and pay the debt down when the recession is over. He never advocated endless exponentially growing debt.

>>139728132
A lot of countries do, America has about 120% of annual GDP as debt, Greece has about 180% IIRC, and had about 140% when its debt crisis kicked off, Japan has about 220-230% IIRC, etc.

>>139727747
boomers it seems , but i doubt that whole population accepted it (usa case) ,people naturally tend to lean conservative and save up money , i guess it was human nature to accept debt spending in packaged as free governmental gifts .
>>139727855
so lets just cut the social policies and problems will be solved ?non of such parties exist who are pro small government ?

>>139728303
> people naturally tend to lean conservative and save up money
HAHAHAHAHA, what? Most people don't save money for shit and can't spend it quick enough, at least relative to their earnings, saving money is pretty much reserved specifically for certain conservative, collectivist ethnic groups like Northeast Asians and people who are noticeably smarter or more long-term/foward-thinking than average.

>>139725077
>deflation
>spending powers goes up
>mhhh I may spend later so I can spend more
>no one buys
>profits goes down
>investor sees that and dont invest
>everything goes to shit

No.

>>139723143

It actually happened though, you now work 40 hours for things like Iphones, more food, big macs for a buck, netflix, videogames, and so on.

If you work only 30 hours or even 25 hours per week you would have the same standard of living as the average 60s guy working 40 hours. Maybe even worse since you can still buy a phone and internet at 25 hours while he can't at 40 hours.

>>139728551
i dont know men ,but in east europe , people save up ,and over 80% own their shit , not like in your country where debt based consumption is the norm ,i guess its the diffrent mentality's of population and effect of comunism .

According to some research i've read worker productivity takes a nosedive after 5 hours
I would rather work more 5 hour days than the current 40 hour workweek with 5x8h

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>>139728789
This

That's why future shows like star Trek are retarded in that "durrr there's no money"

Ofcourse there's money. In the year 2400 you'll only have to work 5 hours a week for access to food, shelter, unlimited video games, access to virtual reality, gyms, Healthcare, anything 21st century living style.

But do you want your own space ship? Do you want to travel to other galaxies? Send messages over subspace? You better work 40 hours a week giving oral service to Klingons

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i work less than you and i've made more than everyone in this thread and their family combined.

if the people around me listened to me instead of attacking me they would be rich too

stupidity and ego keeps you poor

>>139728863
Old Economy Steve thinks he had it rough.

>>139723143

And there's Bertrand Russell "In Praise of Idleness"

"This is the morality of the Slave State, applied in circumstances totally unlike those in which it arose. No wonder the result has been disastrous. Let us take an illustration. Suppose that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged in the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, working (say) eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same number of men can make twice as many pins: pins are already so cheap that hardly any more will be bought at a lower price. In a sensible world, everybody concerned in the manufacturing of pins would take to working four hours instead of eight, and everything else would go on as before. But in the actual world this would be thought demoralizing. The men still work eight hours, there are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt, and half the men previously concerned in making pins are thrown out of work. There is, in the end, just as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men are totally idle while half are still overworked. In this way, it is insured that the unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a universal source of happiness. Can anything more insane be imagined?

The idea that the poor should have leisure has always been shocking to the rich. In England, in the early nineteenth century, fifteen hours was the ordinary day's work for a man; children sometimes did as much, and very commonly did twelve hours a day. When meddlesome busybodies suggested that perhaps these hours were rather long, they were told that work kept adults from drink and children from mischief."

There's something like cost disease at play. Economics is a joke. Check out Dierdre McCloskey

>>139723143
Because we rely on cheap labor. Cheap labor kills progress.

>>139728292
Right, Keynes lived in an era when men still had sense. He never imagined people would become this malevolently stupid

>>139727236
Keynsian economics was put to bed in the 1980s when (((Friedman))) and the Monetary economists took over.
Thatcher and Reagan thought it was ace because they could slash spending and cut taxes and still grow the economy simply by """growing the money supply"""
The bankers thought this was ace because most money that is created is done in the form of a loan, and money is destroyed when you pay the loan back.
So now we lurch from crisis to crisis in a death spiral of junk debt, and the only thing that guarantees our future prosperity is, for the most part, the value of your house.
The real reason for white genocide is to keep house prices up. They don't even need to be house buyers, as long as they can cover the rent on an investment property then we need them here yesterday goyim.
T. Banker

>>139723143
Socialism->Increased cost of labor
->Unemployment->Workforce has to work more to make up for the unemployed

>>139723143
>Prominent economists,
>even Keynes himself
pls kys

>>139730201
You're in the belly of the beast friend, keep your eye on the Nose.

>>139730201
how would u fix modern economics ?

>>139723143
gr8 b8 hayek m8

>>139723357
12 hours 4 days a week
5 hours sleep a night
enough time to go to the range, studying, waging and information war and have a gf. You have probably asperger and are a lazy cunt

>>139728663
>deflation is anticipated as increased volume in production
>firms' net worth not affected negatively
the only episode in which we find evidence of a link between deflation and depression is the Great Depression (1929-34). We find virtually no evidence of such a link in any other period. ... What is striking is that nearly 90% of the episodes with deflation did not have depression. In a broad historical context, beyond the Great Depression, the notion that deflation and depression are linked virtually disappears.

source:Atkeson, Andrew and Kehoe, Patrick. Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. Deflation and Depression: Is There an Empirical Link? January 2004.

>>139729763
This is so nonsensical.

Why doesn't the factory fire some people or reduce its output if it's producing too many pins?
Why don't the workers that aren't paid enough making pins go work in something else?
Why don't the workers that got fired for being inefficient at making pins go work somewhere else, where they are more productive and make all of society richer?

This just sounds like a bunch of people being assumed to be stuck in their positions unable to do anything at all and complaining about it.

>>139727236
The debate was basically between Keynes and Hayek.
Hayek belonged to the Austrian school of economics

>>139730508
> Keynes isn't a preeminent economist
Please show me how you've completely debunked well supported concepts like sticky wages/prices please, oh genius economist.
>>139730201
Keynesian economics hasn't been 'put to bed' though, there's probably greater support of it than monetarism now because monetarism hasn't been shown to deliver on its promises given stuff like the 07-08 financial crisis, etc.
If anything we're probably moving towards the idea that Keynesian + certain extra assumptions may be the way going forward.
> Inb4 Post-Keynesian economics
If that's what you want to call it then sure.

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>>139723143
Economics isn't a "science" regardless of what some might say

>>139731117
Keynes faustian economy and idea of infinite resources has destroyed the west. He is not an economist, he was an infiltrator whoes only goal was to destroy what gave him a comfy life and deny it to his children, grand children great grand children great great grand children

>>139726816
>I'm at work 40 hours, not working 40 hours
I been a leader and manager for well over ten years. I am here to tell you... if i didnt have to deal with unions and bullshit rules, I could work my people 6 hours daily and maintain and or increase production

Lol @ 40 hours, more like 80 with no overtime

>>139731294

Word. After 6 hours of work people's concentration is just gone. And if manual labour, theyir energy. It's so pointless to make people spend two extra hours at work while they accomplish relatively little.

>>139731451
I tried all kinda ideas in my time and a straight 6 shift is a sweet spot.

>>139730201

Assuming "white genocide" (an unfortunate and counter productive euphemism IMO) means the importation of foreign labor, there's also productivity and the cost of entitlements to consider. Cheaper younger workers increase corporate output relative to their costs and don't strain the already beleaguered entitlement system - save child births, which are actually a sizable fraction of medicaid spending.

>>139723143
Cause the (((economy))) is a pyramid scheme and we're all on the shit end of it

>>139723143
Wages are not rising in accordance to the cost of living, we are going to have to start working 40+ hours per week at this rate.

A better question to ask is why is everything so fucking expensive in the west when we practically abuse Bangladeshi slave labour to produce most of our consumer goods? Global finance capitalism was intended to reduce costs, we should be living some of the most affordable lifestyles on Earth considering over half our economy is propped up by foreign sweatshop labour, but we aren't, people are actually having to spend more year by year on these shitty products.

>>139723143
>why do we still put up with this meme?
We?

I negotiate my working hours with my employer, I've worked all sorts of different arrangements that suit me, which include things like 9-5 but only 4 days of the week with a 3 day weekend.

If you can't negotiate with your employer, move to a new one who is more reasonable? It's not that hard.

Most people want to work the extra hours because they prefer to have the additional money. I make fairly decent money, at least for the area I'm in, so I can chose to do more or less whatever I like.

>>139731889
>why is everything so fucking expensive in the west

Taxes on the one hand, Jews and the 1% on the other. We're getting fucked by both the state and corporations.

>>139731889
Thank cental banking and their monopoly money and thank Kenys and his people for manipulating interest rates and mark to market accounting. These things trap capital into the stock and bond markets and prevents capital circulation and real growth.

>>139731990
>Most people want to work the extra hours because they prefer to have the additional money

Fuck you, I work the hours because otherwise I can't pay my rent. My salary is fixed, doesn't matter where I go, I make the same money. And I am already in a rent-controlled house.

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>>139731663
But the babies themselves also offset the cost of the greying demographic.

>>139731117
There isn't any basis to the idea that increased inflation improves the economy at any time because inflation just takes from one sector of spending and gives to the other, and reduces the quality of the spending because the government can't see supply and demand and can pay off special interest groups or embezzle or buy votes and hope to leave office before it matters, etc.

So almost all of his ideas are nonsense.

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>>139728292
You aren't contradicting my statement.
>>139728663
You seem to think that spending == prosperity. This is false and it's a variation on the broken window fallacy.
The powers that be have indoctrinated you to believe this only because they benefit from it. The higher the velocity of money, the more tax revenue.
The actual truth is that capital goods == prosperity. The amount of stuff in the economy is all that matters.

>>investor sees that and dont invest
What kind of retarded shit is this? You think that people actually think "gee, profits went down to 1%, I guess I should make that 0% by stuffing my mattress"?

The fact is that high profits indicate scarcity. Once you reduce scarcity, you see lower profits, which means people invest in the next most scarce thing. This is the process of civilization. The logical conclusion of your argument is that we need HIGHER scarcity. We need to be POORER.

In ancient history, when everything was very scarce, rates of return were often 50%. Were they better off because of this? Hell no.

>>139731889
greedy corporations + vat and import taxes which burgers dont have federally(sales tax)

>>139732232
>But the babies themselves also offset the cost of the greying demographic
If a society goes below replacement rates its in for some serious economic trouble and nature will seek the equilibrium. But hey all these unions want thier god tier pensions and state and lical governments gotta spend money on dumb shit and dumb people.

>>139729006
I feel like if the average wage was higher, and it was made clear that 6 hours of solid work is expected (productivity tracking helps, canned if you don't meet standards), more work would get done. It's easier to bust your ass for a few hours than it is to drag it out over a shift. This only applies to working class jobs really though.

>>139723143
10-16 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week.

If you work 40h a week and complain about not having enough cash you can only blame yourself.

But sure if id got paid the same for lets say 30h week id do that. Until then 3 jobs it is.

>>139730201
Monetarists are just Keynesians by a different name. They're indirect injection Keynesians instead of direct injection Keynsians. Direct or indirect, it has the same effects.

>>139723357
>>139728113
Whats the point of life for you? I'd kill myself after a week working 12 hours a day, might as well be a slave at that point

>>139723143
I get paid hourly. I'd work more if I could

>>139724245
I mean, overpopulation didn't fuck us up like they thought it would in the 70's, and we went the entire Cold War without nuclear war.

>>139723143
Because conservatives are fucking slaves who will take a load of shit in the mouth and ask for seconds.

As union participation dropped, so too did wages. We all got fucked because they were too stupid to stand in solidarity with their class.

>>139732312
>The amount of stuff in the economy is all that matters.

Wrong. Cheap energy is what matters. Energy returned on energy invested determines the amount of surplus, which determines the amount of free energy that can be reinvested and divested elsewhere. There is no economy of any sort, no supply and demand for anything other survival necessities, without cheap energy. All the global economy sucks because it is based on a now nearly depleted, non-renewable resource. The damage to the Colonial Pipeline and the refineries in Texas will set doubt straight soon enough.

>>139732312
>poster completely contradicts your point
>not an argument lel.

Gas yourself fuckwit.

>>139723143
Keynes was a dumb fucking retard commie, that's why

I'll only work 13 hours of overtime a week. After that I get taxed well over 40% and it's not worth it. With 13 hours I'm at an effective 33% tax rate, which is still bullshit but. Whatever.

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>>139733901
What are you saying? I said capital goods are the only important thing in an economy. Energy is a capital good, but hardly the only important one. Are you saying that if the economy were a fifth its current size, except there's five times more energy, we'd be better off?
>>139733914
>Keynesianism, which is all about deficit spending
>Keynes advocated for the government to use deficit spending during recessions
>poster completely contradicts your point
Please explain in detail what you mean.

>>139733774
>As union participation dropped, so too did wages. We all got fucked because they were too stupid to stand in solidarity with their class.
This is complete nonsense. Some of the highest paying jobs are non union.

>>139735605
>Some of the highest paying jobs are non union.

Name a few

>>139723357

Yes, good goy,

work so that the Rothschilds can buy another private island.

>>139723357
Or you could split that job with someone who can't find one ya cunt.

>>139736059
most software engineers, financiers, most engineers, doctors, pharmacists

>>139723143
My industry does shift work... I think six hour days would be fine in places like ours. It would kill unemployment dead by simply adding a fourth shift.

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>>139723143
>Keynes

Kys

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It's almost as if millions of years of biology in part determines how humans design their own habitats.... really makes me think

>>139736827
Not everybody can do those jobs. So they should live shitty lives?

it's because basic necessities in needs hierarchy are indefinitely non-elastic in relation free time, while luxury items are fixed in quantity

>>139737493
I never said or implied anything like that, the guy just asked for good non-union jobs.

oh, and obviously there is no satiation for human needs. once you anchor that some wealth level, your preferences changes for requiring completely new things

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>>139723143
shut up goyin, go back to work

you dont make me earn money posting on 5chem

>>139723143
Don't ever get into sales, you'll live at work.
t. Porsche salesman

>>139723357
What are overtime laws like in Canada?
US, nobody wants you to work overtime, ever.

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>>139738039

>>139723143
Keynes was a moron, as are those who still buy into his bullshit economics.

>>139723143
I went from working 12 hours on a furnace to working 10 hours at home and I love every minute of it. I'm self employed now and I basically mine money.

I work and whenever I feel like it I stop and eat, watch a movie or even go for a long walk. I don't think that the hours you work matter as much as the QoL at the workplace. I'd rather work 15 hours doing what I do now than 1 single hour a day back at the furnace.

>>139739181
You have to go back.

>>139723143
>we

I work 20 hours a week and make around 80 grand a year with my one man business cleaning up graffiti for private businesses. I have been threatened by gang members though.

>>139739181
What do you do anon?

>>139723143

Human desire is infinite or at least it has been so far. Back in the day you could survive and be happy on 20 a month. Now in order to be happy you need more shit. Its almost like humans evolved to be a creature that comes with its own drive forward. We are meant to be driven. In fact if we weren't we would burn shit down in our sickness until we had something to do.

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>>139739446
pls go on anon, I'm interested.

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>>139723143
We decided that having greater material wealth was worth the extra time spent working a job. Honestly I'd say a 40 hour work week is a pretty good deal, although a 60 hour work week would be the ideal for me.

>>139739635
Exactly, but it's funny because with our drive to make more money and own more shit we screw ourselves. In the book the richest man Babylon the author talks about the fact that most people will always be poor even with huge incomes because the average person will increase there cost of living anytime they get a raise and most people push their cost of living past their income so they never really have a substantial amount of wealth despite making great money. It's a big reason why people who weren't raised rich but become rich have a high chance of losing all their money, some people call it nigger rich but it's a real thing especially in America. Almost all of my nornie friends owe more money than they make because they finance a new car or open a new credit card as soon as they get a raise or promotion.

>>139723143
I have to live in an expensive area for work and so my kid can go to a school with Whites. Otherwise no problem to work less than 40.

inb4 Georgism

>>139739756
I had a gun put in my face for removing a gang mural from a day care center a couple of months ago. It was funny too because I told the guy I wouldn't remove it then I came back at 4 am and removed it anyways kek.

>>139735244
Kind of disappointed the leftists have abandoned ship on this thread once they got btfo.
I enjoy the opportunity to collect my thoughts and write them down in the face of autistic screeching.

I work like 20 hours a week freelancing and make around 1200-1500/week. It's not elite tier money but I get to take care of the house during the day and when I have children I don't have to pay for childcare/pick up some stupid pyramid scheme to make extra cash while out of work.

The time will come when we all transition to a project based economy.

If you are not happy with the world around you than preach the necessary changes to a like minded collective. Go out into the world and build you new culture. Only than & if successful will the envious peasants follow suit.

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>>139728863
House prices went up. The land prices went up. The regulations on new buildings went up (You can't do anything with your own land without government permission and without additional taxes). The government became even harsher on what you can do on "public" land. Technically you're not even allowed to pitch a tent, hammock, a piece of string, move any sticks or rocks, or sleep in your own vehicle even where overnight parking is allowed. We are cucked beyond all belief into paying the Mortgage Jew or paying twice as much to some landlord and gaining no equity.

>>139731889
>A better question to ask is why is everything so fucking expensive in the west when we practically abuse Bangladeshi slave labour to produce most of our consumer goods?

Because the cost of production is not related to the final price of the product.

If people are willing to pay X then X is the price. It doesn't matter if it cost X-1 or X-50 to make the product. Now of course the runaway credit available in the west is fucking with people's willingness to pay, inflating it artificially. If people had to save for a car or a house, they'd likely put more thought into it, and pay much less.

>>139741469
Also there are holiday homes which are the most affordable kind of housing and could be paid off quickly (Literally £15,000-20,000). Well Guess what, the government restricts how many months of the year you can live in one too.

They don't want us to be free of debt, that can be the only reason.

>>139723143
>Prominent economists, even Keynes

bwahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahaahhahahahhahahahhahahaahahaahahahahaahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaahaha

Prominent nuclear physicist, Barrack Obama.

>>139741469
Jeebus man. That sounds horrible.

>>139739547
Industrial design and infographics.

>>139723143

Who the fuck gets a 40 hour work week anymore? Unless your a fag with a gay wage job, you're working a real salary job doing 40+ hours because Fuck You that's why.

As long as there's an imbalance between labor and capital, someone's always getting exploited. Either you're fucking the company or the company is fucking you.

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>>139741469
Land and house prices always go up when interest rates are held below equilibrium by the central banks.

It has to do with land profits being more competitive with keeping your money in the bank. There's a much lower opportunity cost for holding onto your land indefinitely. This means there's less land on the market, which causes prices to go up due to both speculation and the law of supply and demand.

There's a separate phenomenon where if your currency is inflationary, land actually retains its value better than money, so everyone buys land for the indirect exchange value. When any good acquires indirect exchange value, it's in higher demand and its price goes up.

The reason they do this is because governments rake in much higher property taxes this way, even at the expense of the wellbeing of their citizens.

>>139741469

How the fuck did this come to be with you Bongs? Any shred of liberalism and free speech has been sapped right from under your noses by both the Labour and Conservative Parties.

Each side takes turns fucking you from both ends and you guys just roll over and let it happen with impunity. At least Brexit was a ray of hope, but even that's being managed into a farce.

>>139744436
>higher property taxes
Higher property tax revenue that is, even at the same tax rate.

>>139723143
I'd kill for a 40 hour work week. try a consistent 60-70 and cry back to me faggot.

>>139728292
What Keynes advocated is not Keynesinism as it has been practiced. Like you said, his ideas that have been most prominently employed were meant to be circumstantial and only work from a pure monetary standpoint. However, they are applied as panacea because the political dynamics of democracy demand it.