Why is protestantism the right choice?

Also, who was right... Luther or Calvin?

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Christianity was the wrong choice.

>>139559012
Because Heaven is lonely and Hell is a party.

>>139559012
Because protestants actually read the bible?

Catholicism is a cult that resembles hinduism more than Christianity

>>139559012
To hold on to protestantism you have to be willing to do a few things:
Be in complete ignorance of history.
Throw out logic.
And ultimately believe that Jesus Christ lied, and thus cannot be God, because the Church had erred for 1,500 years until a new religion founded by a Catholic priest "restored" Christianity. This would also mean that the Scriptures are false, as according to Scripture, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth; and that Christ would be with His Church always, even unto the consummation of the world, and that the gates of Hell would not prevail.
Holding onto protestantism posits that the Church erred for 1,500 years, and seeing that there is no historical record of protestant doctrine among any group of Christians, cannot be a hidden sect.
>ex protestant who read history

>>139560935
Hinduism is Aryan

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>>139559012
Hitler will be seen as the next prophet of our people. Stories of him fighting our enemy and pushing them off will be whispered in a time when we are at the brink of death and there are no reliable information sources left... A whisper of a man who showed us the way out, and died for his people. His philosophy and words will be preached as the ultimate truths and guide our people for ages to come.

Screencap this

>>139559012
You do realize that Protestant theology produced cucks like John Brown and the American abolitionist movement.

>>139564139
Don't forget the Know Nothing Party. I like them. At least they were honest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

>>139563216
To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.
> Also ex Protestant
Also, what are your thoughts on >>139563847 ?

>>139564139
Slavery is wrong in all forms.

>>139559012
>Comprehensive history of the Reformation & Documentation of Catholic heresy using Vatican's own source material.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF170B126002E7CB0

>>139564139
>relying on someone else's labor

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>>139559012
Repent you filthy prots! Stop your heresy and accept Papal authority!

>>139565308
The first Catholics were Hebrews. One ceased to be a Jew when one became Catholic.
Yet, to hold on to the Hebraic traditions is, as St. John Chrysostom said, like a dog returning to its vomit.

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>>139559012
Orthodox is the way to go

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>>139559147
John Calvin. Luther only wanted to "clean up" a few things about roman catholicism. John Calvin wanted to completely demolish it and start over with completely Biblical roots. John Calvin is literally the Chief Engineer of the Reformation. Luther was just the grenade that sparked it.

>>139565320
>>139565625

While bringing negro slaves to the United States was a mistake, setting them free on American soil was an even worse mistake. The abolitionist cucks put the rights and wellbeing of negros over their fellow white men in the South.

>>139560935
Yes. I would go so far to say that roman catholicism should belong under Unorthodox religion as is mormons and jehovahs witness. It is very very pagan and also trying to usurp the authority of Jesus Christ with ridiculous popery.

>>139559147
Both of them, but Archbishop Cranmer was the best of his generation.

>>139559012
Because the choice is the Almighty's!

>>139565944
>"Biblical roots"
>Rejects the Catholic Church
>Catholic Church put Scripture into canon in 382AD at Council of Rome, reaffirmed 393 Synod of Hippo, reaffirmed again 419 Council of Carthage
>73 books
>To accept the veracity of the New Testament is to accept the authority of the decision of the Catholic Church on placing them into canon
Sigh. What protestants are actually saying is that Christ and His Church failed for 1,500 years.

We, followers of Jesus Christ, are the church. Jesus is the rock, or the foundation.
Constantine founded Catholicism, because the Christians and pagans in Rome were constantly feuding as the gospel spread.
Constantine also moved the sabbath day to Sunday. Catholics worship Helios and they don't even realize it.

>>139565776
Eastern Orthodox = heresy

>>139559312
Emperor Julian was right.

>>139566270

B-BUT MUH LUTHER...

Also, Catholics have more innocent blood on their hands than Muslims.

>>139566709
That's precisely the ignorance of history I am talking about that is so prevalent in backwater Baptist chapels.

>>139566270
>basically CNN posting
best lies are more than 50% true.

Or Protestantism is the evolution of Gods relevations of himself to man.

You have to admit, Catholicism is a mess. How could it be allowed to persist?

"Luther was an antisemite" is just a meme parroted by anti-Luther polemecists. His attitudes toward the Jews were typical of others of his time. You could find similar written statements about the Jews from Catholics and other Reformers.

>>139566528

Pretty cringe and retarded arguement bud.

>>139565776
Lutheran is the way to go,

>>139567073

You don't have to defend it.

>>139566833
Better a redneck than a child molester I guess. Why are Catholics such perverts?
Anyway, I'm not a southern Baptist. Nice try though.

>>139566528
Protestants actually worship the Islamic moon god Allah and they don't even realize it!

>>139566709
The tree of orthodoxy must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of heretics and infidels.

>>139563216
The catholic church is a serpent,it changes gods commandments which were issued by God,it follows a false gospel and is anathema

Get out of the pagan whore

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>>139566969
You could also say that about the Arian heresy. 90+% of the hierarchy embraced the Arian heresy.
St. Jerome, the man who translated the Latin Vulgate, wrote that the world woke and groaned to find itself Arian.
St. Athanasius and the laity fought the Arian heresy and cleansed the Church of it--and this was even after it was condemned at Nicaea.
Even the Pope (Liberius) was sympathetic to the Arians; the first pope to not be a canonized saint.

>>139567262
Getting into the numbers of abuse by American insurance payouts, Protestant and Catholic sects are neck and neck in abuse.
Not only this, the three major insurance companies that insure for child abuse report that Protestant abuse is just as bad as Catholic, and that secular abuse is 8 times worse than Catholic and Protestant combined.
Not only this, only an estimated 25% of Protestant churches have or can afford this insurance. Because of their autonomous, individual nature, there is no reporting apparatus. Also, 65% of the data is unavailable to the public because those insurance claims are considered proprietary to the individual protestant churches. So we have a crisis much larger within Protestant communities for the sheer fact that around 10% of all of them actually report their numbers, and to those that do, is almost identical to abuse in Catholic setting.

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/article07/abuse_data_in_protestant_churches.html
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/myth-of-a-catholic-crisis/
Billy Graham's grandson even knows.
http://prospect.org/article/next-christian-sex-abuse-scandal

It's no coincidence that "bible fundamentalists" take the #1 spot on the terrorist watch list. The government, globalists, Jesuits, whatever you want to call them, know the truth.
Keep reading the Bible, brothers. God is on our side.

>>139567429
I worship Jesus Christ, and only Jesus Christ. You perverted Catholics are grasping at straws now. Repent!

>>139567492
Pope Liberius is considered a saint. He is still on the Eastern Orthodox litirgical calendar. The allegations of his supposed capitulation to Arians is exaggerated.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09217a.htm

>>139567492
You list citations as if I belong to a particular denomination. In reality, I just believe the Bible is the Word of God, and Jesus is the Son of God.
That is something you Catholics feared for a long time; individual thought.

>>139567458
it was also illegal to read the bible unless you were a priest.

>>139566270
I've never understood how Protestants could look past this. Great post.

>>139567783
There is just as much basis for saying that Catholics worship the pagan god Helios as saying that Protestants worship the Islamic moon god Allah.

>>139559147
It depends on how much logic you wish to apply.
Calvin is more systematic and takes things to their logical conclusion. For example both Luther and Calvin agree on sola fide. But Luther never draws the logical conclusions that completely dismantle the sacramental system that had developed in Catholicism.

t. Lutheran of the Missouri Synod variety

>>139568224
No, private interpretation of the Scriptures that especially do not belong to your faith tradition.
>2 Peter 3:16
>As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
>2 Peter 1:20
>Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation
You see the fruits of it.
Thousands upon thousands of individual sects, all believing differently, yet claiming to somehow be a part of the same Body.
>Ephesians 4:5
>one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Now Protestantism has even infected the hierarchy of the Church.

>>139568224
Catholics do not fear individual thought. Rather Catholics recognize that there is absolute truth. Accordingly, Catholic societies recognized the duty of the secular government to stamp out poisonous ideologies, including Christian heresies, just as communism should have been ruthlessly stamped out in the previous century. Freedom of speech is a liberal heresy.

>>139568413
No it wasn't.

>>139568413
Look where letting the masses read the bible has led. The universalism and pacifism in the New Testament was set loose, and instead of St. Aquinas, Gothic cathedrals, and Carthusian monks, we have Joel Osteen, stadium churches, and self satisfied disgusting proles.

>>139568660
(1) Luther doesn't hold onto sacramental practices because he didn't go far enough. He held onto them because thwy are expressly taught in scripture. (2) The Lutheran "sacramental system" is not fundamentally different than the Calvinist one, nor less of a departure from Catholic orthodoxy. It might only appear so because Lutherans dress up more. (3) Luther was a more radical thinker than Calvin.

>>139565944
Luther was a pawn used by the powerful elites as a means to break the stranglehold of the Catholic Church.

They sheltered him, they marketed him, they printed his books.

>>139569052
The church is Christ's church. No man can determine what is the truth and what is not. God's word is the truth.

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. One needs to admit they're a sinner, repent and ask for the Lord Jesus to forgive them. Ask the Lord to come into your life. He will do what He says. It is all about your personal relationship with Jesus. Not a religion.

>>139565151
Look into the background of the leader of the Know-Nothings, Lewis Charles Levin.

>>139559312

Indeed. Christianity, like Islam and Communism is a Jewish creation.

>>139569623
If no man can determine what is truth, than how can you believe in Protestantism, where every man must indvidually determine what is truth for himself. Obviously, that's not what you mean. What you mean is that men can't change divine revelation. That is true. However, man can recognize the truth and content of divine revelation, and this revelation constitutes the Catholic faith. When the Church recognizes that individuals or sects have strayed from God-given truth and obstinately cling to and spread their errors despite correction, then the Church rightly labels them heretics.

>>139563216
If you read the Bible instead of your history books you'd know that the catlick church is indeed wrong for as long as it existed you stupid hellbound pagan.

>>139570157
Where do you think the Bible came from, genius.

>>139569623
>Jesus died on the cross for our sins. One needs to admit they're a sinner, repent and ask for the Lord Jesus to forgive them. Ask the Lord to come into your life. He will do what He says. It is all about your personal relationship with Jesus. Not a religion.

The term "personal relationship" is a meaningless platitude and you will not find that term taught anywhere in the entire body of scripture. It means only what you say it means.

>>139570225
From the hands of men who were divinely inspired. Reminder that the catlick church BANNED the common people from owning and reading a Bible on their own.

>>139570131
It is obvious the catholic church has strayed from scripture, so your entire argument fails.

>>139570157
How can we know that the Catholic Church is wrong from reading only the Bible if, for the sake of argument, the Catholic Church is not in the Bible? If the Catholic Church were not in the Bible, we could only learn of the Catholic Church from knowledge of post-biblical history. On the other hand, if the Catholic Church were in the Bible, then that would mean that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church, since the New Testament teaches a single, unified Church.

>>139570321
The common people couldn't read, genius. The only universities were Catholic, which educated people *for free*. Monasteries were centers of education.
The price of a Bible was the price of a 3 year wage in medieval Europe.
You really ought to pick up a history book. Even if a commoner could read it, they couldn't afford it.

>>139570415
Well, it's obvious to everyone who disagrees with you that you're wrong. Checkmate.

>>139570674
So sorry you feel that way.Please read the bible. If you truly seek the truth, God will reveal it to you. You have nothing to lose

>>139570321
The Catholic Church did not ban common people from reading or owning a Bible. They banned specific translation/commentaries.

>>139559147
Calvin.

>>139559012
I recommend everyone read the Book of Luke and the Book of Mark.

Really understand what Christ was like, straight from the source. Don't let any media depiction of Him persuade you on what he was like.

He wasn't really cucked at all. He didn't even want to die on the cross. He asked God if there was another way to accomplish their goals (proving He really didn't want to die that way), and when the answer was no, He basically accepted his mission like a man.

He wasn't a pushover at all. He debated people in public and chewed them out. He told corrupt people to BTFO. He showed forgiveness to sinful people that were weak and helpless and had their lives destroyed by sin. He went after the JEWISH ELITES. He was calling out the Jewish oligarchy of the time for being purveyors of corruption.

Jesus really is /ourLord/

>>139570577
What the fuck are you talking about? We know the catlick church is wrong because:
>They worship idols
>they practice repetitive prayers
>they hate Jesus
>they call their leader p*pe which is latin for father
>they believe in purgatory
>you can pay the church money to go to heaven
>they extend Christian graces to non-Christians
>their pastors aren't allowed to get married
>they believe that even blasphemers can get into heaven via good works
>they confess their sin to men

and MANY, MANY more. Too much to list.

>>139559012

Because popery is inherently and obviously corrupt.

>>139570892
Is that why when Luther came and translated the Bible into the common language the catlicks shat themselves and tried to put a stop to it? You fucking satan worshipping idiot, don't blab your unclean mouth at someone who is saved by the Grace of God.

>>139570892
They banned translations that people could actually read and understand.

>>139570832
If Catholics only have not become Protestanr due to not reading the Bible, where did all the Catholic commentaries on sacred scripture come from and why did Protestantism fail to appear for 1500 years after Christ?

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>>139559012
Because we actually follow the Bible.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

"saved through faith" well it looks like you don't have to do any works. "gift of God" you don't work for gifts you just accept them otherwise it isn't a gift. "not of works" well that's pretty clear you don't need to do works. "lest anyman should boast" just like the guys in
Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.(see John 6:38-40 for the Father's will)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It looks like those people were boastimg and relying on their works "done many wonderful works" AND they had faith "in thy name". But Jesus still told them to fuck off.
Looks like relying on your works like orthodox and catholics do has you NOT enter Heaven

Jesus said they work iniquity because thy rely on their works. Let's see what happens to people that work iniquity.
Matthew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

>>139559147
Luther

>>139571363
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVOrQg8Wq0M
God's Outlaw, William Tyndale

>>139565320
So when it was commanded by God in the OT it was wrong?

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>>139567174
Baptist*

>>139571426
Because the "church" suppressed the widespread distribution and teachings of the Bible. You were only allowed to read it in latin and have a "priest" by your side to interpret it to you.

>>139571426
>why did Protestantism fail to appear for 1500 years after Christ?
True christians have always existed since the start of christs church,they were forced to hide because of the inquisition/crusades

>>139571426
You act like the Catholic Church was the same exact way since its inception. When Catholics started charging people for confessions, that was the log that broke the camels back. It didn't take 1500 years for Protestantism to appear. It took 1500 years for the Catholic Church to become so corrupt that real Christians finally had enough.

>>139571485
>Faith without works is dead.
James 2:14. James 2:18. James 2:24.
Matthew 25:
[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Those who did not put their faith into action went into everlasting punishment.
Not works for the sake of boasting, but works for the sake of faith.

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>>139569077
>Look where letting the masses read the bible has led.
People realizing the cuckolick church is heretical.

also
>That's a good goy don't read the Bible trust us on what it says.

>>139571663
This is ridiculous nonsense. Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide did not exist until the sixteenth century.

>>139571820
It actually existed in the first century
see >>139571485

>>139571740
Really? It's when that you have to pay for confessions and not the fact that confessions even EXISTS in the first place that is evidence that the catlick church is corrupt and possibly a bastion for satanists?

>>139571942
Pay for confession? What in the hell are you talking about.

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>>139571741
1. You didn't refute it you just posted a different verse
2. Yeah its dead because its non-productive, but not non-existent. Faith is for Jesus, works are for mankind. Men can't see our faith so they understand us by our works. Dead faith is still faith.
3. I doubt the theif in the cross had good works and he went to Heaven.

>>139566270
Luther and the Protestants rejected what the church *had become*--an arrogant, power-hungry, and corrupt organization that embraced idolatry and arrogated to themselves power that rightly lay with Jesus.

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>>139559012

Anti-Semitism is never the right choice.

>>139571942
>What is the camel's back analogy
When your church is a little corrupt, some people will let it slide.

When your church is listing prices for different sins as if it was a menu at a store, your church is absolutely heretical, and it comes the time to speak out.

Kind of like race issues in America. We've all been quiet until now as more of us are going full blown 14/88.

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>>139572077
also
Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
>2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
>4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
>5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
>7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
>8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
>to him that worketh not

>>139571278
That's a tall tale. Luther didn't get into trouble with the Church because he translated the Bible into vernacular German. (1) He was already in trouble with the Church for teaching heresy and denying the authority of the Church long before he published his New Testament translation. The reason his translation was condemned was for its association with the man more than anything, not the fact that it was a vernacular translation.
(2) There were already many vernacular German Bibles before Luther. The Catholic Church never forbade vernacular translations out of principle. The Catholic Church does claim authority over publication of version/translations of scripture as I already statedx but that is far different from what you're trying to argue.

http://www.jhsonline.org/cocoon/JHS/a115.html

>>139572043
Catholic Church.
Thought up a plan to ask for payments for specific confessions. The bigger the sin, the bigger the cost $$$. You could not be an actual Christian and ignore that level of heresy anymore. Hence Protestantism was born.

>>139566270
Forget muh biblical roots. The curtain was torn so one wouldn't need another human (priest or what have you) communicate to god for you Jesus' sacrifice was the new covenant that invalidated those ways.

Additionally, I'm sure there's a good chance that the Catholic Church was a very different animal in fucking 300-400AD vs le current year.

>>139559012
>>139559147

Can someone redpill me on why it matters what sect of Christianity you are?

Don't they all go to heaven according ot your religion? So who gives a fuck if someone is Mormon or Orthodox? Why does literally any Christian care if they get a ticket punched to paradise either way?

>>139572380
You mean indulgences right?

>>139571740
Since when do Catholics charge people for confessions? Do you even know what confession is?

>>139572247
Well that makes sense. When are we gonna wake up and tear down the satanic church in the vatican?

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Ironic considering (((Christicuckiny))) is a Jewish, semitic, middle eastern religion no matter what mental gymnastics you try to pull.

>>139572380
Aren't those called indulgences? Raised Protestant, current agnostic - private school. They called Catholics out on their shit. No offense to them can't say I have a dog in the fight - but studied the stuff fairly thoroughly when I was young.

>>139572509
It's something that you should only talk to God about, and not men.

>>139572481
Because most will go to hell because they're relying on thier works
see >>139571485

also mormans are not at all Christians. That would be like calling muslims Christians.

>>139572509
Since history class, m8. Look up why Protestantism became a thing.

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>>139572203

And now Jews advocate the complete genocide of British, Scottish, Irish, French, German, Swede, Belgian, American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander, etc.

>>139572632
By their fruits you shall know them

Between the pedophilia,financial extortion,Spanish Inquisition,Massacres of indigenous people on the South and Central American Continents the fact that the Catholic Church is one of the richest "corporations" in the world while 90 percent of its followers live in abject poverty.their insistance on letting the US be over run by third world scum and God only knows what else...Oh yeah Papist..you are Gods" true" church

>>139572481
Catholics ignore the Bible. They just do whatever, even if what they do is absolutely heretical according to The Bible.

That's why protestants exist.

>>139572481
No. Catholics and Protestants do not believe that Mormons are Christians at all. Protestants believe that Catholics are hell-bound reprobates and possibly pagan. Catholics believe Protestants are heretics and possibly non-Christians. There are a lot of differences all around.

>>139572632
>>139572873
>>139572879

Interesting.

What about Orthodox?

>>139572537
Idk. I think we're going to leave that one to Jesus.

>>139559012
Because you are probably a WASP it's in your blood

>>139572630
It was alleged earlier that Catholics pay money for confessions, the amount varying depending on their sin like a menu. In reality, Catholics go to a priest, confess their sins and receive absolution free of charge.

>>139572967
Orthodox is just another flavor of catholicism. The people who practice it are unsaved and hellbound.

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>>139572829
The original neocons

>>139572077
The point is, there is no such idea of faith alone. It was always entangled with works, not for the sake of works, but of faith.
Father Luther despaired of his salvation because he was unable to keep his oaths of chastity and daily prayers, thus came up with the "faith alone" formula.
>>139572137
Father Luther and the Protestants did not reform a thing.
Fr. Luther separated Holy Matrimony as a function of the Church, relegating it to the State.
He told Philip of Hesse that it was not against the law of God to receive a second wife--while retaining the first--because the Jews did it. The great reformer himself, endorsing polygamy.
Fr. Luther removed the book of James, calling it an epistle of straw, because it contested his new doctrine of faith alone. He added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28 to bolster this new doctrine.
He removed Acts and Revelation, only to re-add it after the protesting of his colleagues.
He privately endorsed King Henry VIII (a former enemy) in his divorce and "remarriage."

This was no great man of God.

>>139572967
They're basically catholicism slightly cooler brother but still a retard
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x07ys_NmNeA

>>139559012
>On the Jews and their Lies
See, that was back when Protestantism still had life in it. Most most modern Protestant churches are completely defeated. Since the 1920s they have been gradually cucking more and more to the Jew - in fact it was the surrender of Protestant social control that gave Jews their power.

>>139573108
What the fuck is absolution and why does a fucking priest have the power and authority to do so?

>>139573190
Huh. Interesting. Thank you. Sources?

>>139573190
>It was always entangled with works
Nope
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
>But to him that worketh not

>>139572380
This is absolute nonsense. The charging for indulgences wasn't even a straightforward charging, and this abuse wasn't even widespread. It was frowned upon by almost the entire hierarchy and was being stamped out everywhere except in ethnic German areas where the Bishops were lax.

I bet you don't even know that Father Luther was in the "conservative" wing of the Augustinians until it became apparent that the "liberal" wing was going to win; so, as to keep his reputation as a popular university professor, supported the liberal Augustinians to relax the laws of their order. This meant less time in prayer, less penance, more leisure time, etc.
Your saint was a liberal.

>>139572967
I am Catholic myself. Eastern Orthodox are like Greek Catholics, who are not in communion with the Catholic Church due to schisms. Catholics regard Eastern Orthodox as having fundamentally the same beliefs. Eastern Orthodox generally believe the same about Catholicd, but there are also many among them who take a more hardline stance. Non-eastern Orthodox like Coptic Orthodox or Assyrian Orthodox are similar, but separated from mcuh older schisms. The Assyrians are Nestorians who separated after the Council of Ephesus. The Coptic Orthodox are mia/mono-physites who separated after the Council of Chalcedon. They use different liturgies than the Eastern Orthodox as they are Syriac or Coptic rather than Greek/Byzantine.

Understand about Mormons, that they have a very different conception of God, to the extent that they are not really theists. They believe that God started out as a man like us and ascended to deity. They're maybe Christian for demographic

>>139573270

Because Christ himself said so.

Matthew 16:18-19
Matthew 18:18
John 20:23

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Tbh this kind of stuff makes me want to learn hebrew and ancient greek and all that just to make up my own damn mind.
Also
>muh pagan vs christian
is stupid diversionary shit most of the time.
All you need is to have a big G at the top, then it doesn't matter how many pantheons there are, because you can consider them spirits, something like a manifestation/anthropomorphism of human or godly characteristics. FFS even some of the spics (the scummy ones tho) have that shit where they essentially treat some ancient death deity as a saint.

>>139573270
Because this has always been the practice and doctrine of the Church. It is taught by holy tradition and sacred scripture.

>And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

>>139573393
On the Philip of Hesse issue, Father Luther was already a controversial figure so he wrote Philip of Hesse in private, then sent his colleague Melanchthon to officiate. Any search of Philip of Hesse and Luther will bring the situation up.
The search of adding "alone" to Romans 3:28 will bring up Fr. Luther's pompous letter where he lambasted "papists" for "staring at the word "alone"" "like a new cow stares at a gate," saying that he knows very well that the word "alone" is not in the Greek or the Latin, but "Dr. Martin Luther will have it so!"
I am actually at the office or I would give the reference of De Wette.

>>139559012

It's not and you're a faggy heretic AT BEST. If you know about the catholic Church and you choose (((protestantism))) nontheless, you're a pharisee. And you better don't want to be a pharisee.

>>139573826
Besides those don't support that

>>139563216
If the Catholics were doing it right for 1500 years, how come they copied the Protestants and had their own reformation lite afterwards? How much for an indulgence by the way? How much to buy a bishopric?

>>139573989
How is catholicism different? I know you have saints and stuff, do you pray to them?

>>139573505
Someone gives money to the Church to erase their debt in sin... call it whatever name you want, it's a church charging you for sins.

Catholic Church is extremely corrupted.

>>139573927
Sorry, "like a cow stares at a new gate". That was the reference he made. He had quite the witty, dirty mouth on him, too.
The historian Wilhelm Martin Leberecht de Wette even recounts how Father Luther had "shit fights" with the devil.
Quite amusing, that Luther. The man was unstable.

>>139563792
Stop this meme hindus/indians are black as fuck

>>139573826
Where does it say that men can absolve you of your sins? John 20:23 refers being saved through faith..

>>139559012
It's not necessarily the right choice, but it's the choice that places value on your own reason and freedom of conscience.

>>139573831
If Christianity were real what do you think makes more sense? (1) God expects you to learn multiple ancient languages to finally develop the perfect special snowflake Protestant sect, which many other men failed to artice at despite superior intelligence and education, after years of study not achievable by most people. (2) God expects you to belong to his single, clearly visible Church and to follow its teachings.

>>139572481

>Don't they all go to heaven according ot your religion?

Nooo. It is not that simple at all.
According to Catholicism, the non-Catholic Christians are in "imperfect communion" with the Catholic Church, also noting that the Orthodox Church is close enough to the Catholic Church that its sacraments may be licit. It is purposely vague on the fate of the non-believers, and only emphasizes the need for conversion.

I imagine the Orthodox is similar.

The positions of the Protestant Churches vary wildly. Some are outright convinced that there is no salvation outside their particular Church. Others take on a "sola fide" mindset, and believe that faith in Christ alone is enough to warrant salvation, thus all people who call themselves Christian are saved.

>>139574154
Sorry, contrary to what you may have heard, that ain't how it works, buddy.

>>139574124
>Their own reformation
You mean the counter-reformation? Leading up to and after Trent? There was need of reforms as many clergymen had become complacent in practice; and yes, began adopting the liberal attitudes of the Protestants.

Well, the first Bishop to be bribed was Judas, so I suppose 30 pieces of silver.

>>139573922
Then your holy scripture is bullshit or taking it heretically out of context.

>And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
>For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the p*pe)

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>>139566270
The Gnostics were the only sect which understood the truth, which is why the early church had them ALL killed.

The Catholic Church was created to control the masses and worship Satan.

>>139574390
I choose 3
3. Read the Bible and see salvation by faith alone mentioned over a hindred times
http://www.newcovenantbaptist.org/100-bible-verses-on-salvation-by-faith-alone/

>>139574326
Jesus iterally says right there to the apostles that they have the power to forgive sins. I'm familiar with the common Protestant explanation-aways, but they deny the literal meaning of the text.

because its not a front for pedophilia

>>139574569
Go home, Gnostic. Your Albigensian/Cathar spiritual fathers encouraged suicide and discouraged marriage and procreation because..
>teh flesh iss eeevilll
You're damn right the Church of Christ crushed them.

>>139574412
You sinned and the Catholic Church asked for money to absolve you.

Calling something a different name to then justify it is a Jew trick, btw.

ie.
>We're not praying to Mary, goyim! We are venerating her.

-bow down, close your eyes, literally pray to Mary, but ya know, we're calling it "veneration" now so it's ok.

>>139574151

We do pray to them. This poses no worship, however. We're asking them to pray for us, too.
Also the catholic Church is a whole world different from protties. We're the original Church, the only authority on interpreting the Bible in any form or sense you could imagine.

Every single protty telling you that you're your own priest or apostle (which they all do, because this sorta BYOB christianity is deviltry to deceive the people) lies to you, because hierarchy is not something to ignore or reject. It's intended by God, in his natural law - and Jesus Christ himself instated the Church.
Protties literally be like
>SOLA SCRIPTURA NIGGUH
>IZ GODS WORD AND WE GOTTA TAKE EM LITERAL
>.....except these 3-5 passages, of course, :)))))))))
It's like they'd tell you that when Jesus instated the original Church but he was just kidding. A prank if you will. Or that faith alone saves, which is bollocks - but as I said, they just cherry pick the "good" verses (not that there are bad ones) in their eyes and blatantly reject the ones they deem "bad". Pure deviltry.

Never trust a protestant, they're the mexicans of christianity.

>>139574562
>your holy scripture is bullshit

Protestants, everyone.

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>>139574696
>apostles = priests 2000 years later

>>139574390
Neither, and the second one only if sure of its intentions. But especially not 3) Listen to some faggot on here. What I think is that he's letting us do whatever because "muh free will" since he can just do whatever after. I'm all for being Catholic, but the church as a physical entity has some real fucking issues, and to just let it be without trying to improve it as retarded as doing the same thing and not improving your home or body.

>>139574696
>If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Sorry but in my Bible it teaches me that only God has the power to cleanse you of your sins, and that Jesus is His only mediator and therefore confessing your sins to another man is blasphemy. I suggest you toss whatever fake heretical bible you own into the trash and pick a KJV 1611 of your own.

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>>139574735
Fake News, created by early Catholics to justify their Holocaust!

The cleverest trick the Devil ever pulled off was to convince the world that he wasn't real. The Catholic Church does not serve Christ but serves Lucifer.

>>139574229

I've always wondered how Protestants view the "handing of the keys to Heaven" passage of the Bible.

If it was not aluding to the primacy of Peter and his role as the leader of the Church, then what was the significance? What did Jesus mean when he handed over those keys?

>>139574878
This, cuckolicks are insane. Imagine if jews built satues of Abraham, Moses, David etc. and bowed down, prayed, and burned incense to them. Catholics would think those jews are insane even though that would be the same as catholics do.

>>139574633
The Bible never teaches salvation by faith alone unless you read it with Protestant assumptions. Catholics do not share those Protestant assumptions. The Bible teaches that salvation is not given based on pre-existing merits, but it does not teach that you can commit whatever sins you want without forfeiting that gift. Salvation is free, but not unconditional just like any kind of free gift.

the current pope is a nigger worshipping communist that believes in wide open borders.

In any sane church this would be dealt with.

The Catholic church has been turning into an antichrist beast for the last thousand years.

So go pray to your saints and virgin mother and whatever else you do.

It's painfully obvious Christ wouldn't approve of the Catholic church today.

>>139574991
I copied and pasted out of the KJV, and surely your KJV has the Gospel according to St. John.

"Verboten: 11 biblical essays"

Look into it for a good redpilling

>>139575223
You're a retard
John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
>15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
>16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
>18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
>36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
>whosoever believeth
>he that believeth

>>139559012
Protestantism is decentralized, sticks to the source material, and has shown to be the least cucked form of Christianity..

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>>139575467

>>139574878
The Catholic Church does not charge money for absolution. That's only the cartoon Catholic Church in whatever comic book you're basing your knowledge from.

>>139575223
Of course, you can't continue to sin after being saved or you'll end up in hell. That's why all catholics go to hell. Some of them (a minority) have genuine faith in God but they continue to mock them by openly worshipping idols and other unspeakable blasphemous rituals.

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>>139575107
Yeah I know seriously. That one is impossible to get around. Posting good citation to back up screencap anon

https://pastebin.com/kriiSqdK
This is from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, by Gerhard Kittel . An esteemed biblical scholar who is famous for his lecture in 1933 called "The Jewish Question." Kittel was not only a Nazi, but was a trusted source of biblical scholarship by Adolf Hitler himself during the 3rd Reich. This is a word for word rewritten selection from his dictionary, I did not write in the footnotes although they are numerous, either from German secondary sources in theological and classical inquiry, or direct citations from various primary sources from the classical era such as Josephus, Philo, many rabbis, different biblical manuscripts and translations, Church Fathers, and Roman and Greek poetic and historical sources such as Homer, Xenophon, and Plato. He always discusses the history of the word. This is rewritten, by hand, carefully according to each comma and where he capitalized everything. [x] is my added note for plebs. You'd have to buy this as a physical copy otherwise. This Nazi here below writes about how the Roman Catholic Church is correct about the following verse.

That thou art Peter [Petros], and upon this rock [petra] I will build my church.
Volume VI pages 98-112

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>>139575574
95-96
>The feminine πέτρα [petra] is used predominately in secular [Attic] Greek for a large and solid "rock". It may denote equally well the individual cliff or a stony and rocky chain. The masculine Πέτρος [petros] is used more for isolated rocks or small stones, including flints and pebbles for slings. Since there is such a great difference in content the emphasis should be noted, though in practice one cannot differentiate too strictly between πέτρα and Πέτρος; they are often used interchangeably.

>In the LLX [Septuagint, Koine Greek] πέτρα bears the following senses: a. rock, cliff b. place name or geographical note c. of unbending character or the hardened mind d. occasionally a name for God...The main Hebrew equivalents of πέτρα are צוּר [Tzoor meaning cliff, large rock, sharp rock edge, or rock] and סֶלַע [Selah meaning cliff, large rock, craggy rock, or rock];אֶבֶן [Even, meaning rock, large or small] on the other hand is almost always rendered as λίθος [lithos, meaning usually small rock, but it is allowed to be used otherwise] Since Aram. כפא [kapha] normally means "weight" and corresponds to the Heb. שֶׁקֶל [shekel] the Targumim use כֵּיפָא [Kaypha; name "Peter" in Heb.] for סֶלַע. This is equivalent to צוּר. On the other hand, the Aram. טורא [Toora] corresponds more to the Heb. הַר [Har, mountain]. It is also true that כֵּיפָא embraces both the originally more specific meanings of πέτρα and Πέτρος (λίθος). Thus it is very unlikely that the simple meaning כֵּיפָא = λίθος underlies the play on πέτρα and Πέτρος in Mt. 16:18, which rests on a basic כֵּיפָא.

>>139574966

Do you even know what apostolic succession means and why it's a thing ? No ? Obviously.
>inb4 muh tradition is a hoax

>>139575023

Give me a frikkin break with that retardation.
>inb4 but they sing "lucifer" in their prayers
Protestants are truly the most retarded idiots on earth.

It's like you think you have any authority - not only in Bible interpretation but also - in deeming people worthy of receiving salvation or not, putting yourself above God.
Protestantism is - Luther had good intentions, but instead of solving the problems like a man, he took the kindergarden copout and be like "I CANT HEAR YOU IM NOT LISTENING NANANANANANANANANANAAN" faggot - as of lately clearly nothing but an extension of the deviltry that are modern (((merchants))).

>>139559012
Fuck Luther, not only was he responsible for one of the bloodiest and most destructive period and wars, but he was literally a D&C fucking faggot shill that's responsible for much of the divisiveness we're experiencing today.

>>139574966
If it applied even to the apostles, your argument against it being impossible for later priests is refuted.

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>>139575620
98-99
>The obvious pun which has made it's way into the Greek text as well suggests a material identity between πέτρα and Πέτρος, the more so as it is impossible to differentiate strictly between the meanings of the two words. On the other hand, only the fairly assured Aramaic original of the saying enables us to assert with confidence the formal and material identity between πέτρα and Πέτρος: πέτρα = כֵּיפָא = Πέτρος. Elsewhere in the NT the individual Christian is never called πέτρα, though he is λίθος [lithos] in the spiritual building, the body of Christ (1 Peter 25). Rightly understood, Christ alone is πέτρα . If, then Mt. 16:18 forces us to assume a formal and material identity between πέτρα and Πέτρος, this shows how fully the apostolate, and in it to a special degree the position of Peter, belongs to and is essentially enclosed within, the revelation of Christ. Πέτρος [Petros/Peter] himself is this πέτρα [petra/rock], not just his faith or his confession. He is of course, only as the Simon whom Christ has taken in hand. But in this way, like the one who walked on the sea, he is truly this Πέτρος. If Christ is to build this spiritual house, the ἐkkλησία [Ecclesia meaning Church], on this πέτρα, Πέτρος is the foundation of this ἐkkλησία [Church] on the basis of the saying of Christ: "Thou art Peter." This foundation, however, is a supremely historical entity - the uniqueness of the apostolate and of the place of Peter in it.

>>139575540
Didn't Trump cheat on multiple wives and divorce and remarry like 3 times? Doesn't that warrant the death penalty according to the bible?

>>139575292

*tips menora*

>>139575430

>Hi, I'm Johnny Knoxvile and this is Bible verse cherrypicking.

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>>139575702
>Since however, כֵּיפָא carries with it the distinctive content of πέτρα, it is from the very first highly improbable that it is to be in the sense of λίθος. This possibility is indeed ruled out by a Rabbinical analagon: "When God looked upon Abraham, who was to arise, he said: Lo, I have found a rock on which I can build and found the world. For this reason he called Abraham a rock." In a way which transcends the Rabbinical view of Abraham, Peter is brought into this picture of Abraham as the cosmic rock. He takes the place of Abraham, but he does so as the foundation of Israel, Κατα πνευμα [Kata Pneuma meaning "according to the Spirit"], the community of the new covenant which Christ builds on the Rock Peter.

101
>According to the Synoptists Peter assumed a special position in the group around Jesus. With the sons of Zebedee and his brother Andrew he belonged to the innermost and most intimate circle of those associated with Jesus. Even in this inner most circle (Mark 9:5), however, he had an important position of precedence, so that the Synoptic Gospels always portray him as standing in the forefront, Mark 9:5. Thus Jesus only allows Peter and the sons of Zebedee to go with Him into the house of of the ruler of the synagogue (Mark 5:37).... He acts as spokesman for the Twelve.

>The special position of Peter does not mean that he leads the other disciples during the lifetime of Jesus. For a while the guidance of the developing community does in fact fall on him after the death of Jesus.

>>139559012
Because protestants created the Anglosphere, the greatest countries on the Earth

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>>139575628
The Church is not God. So many of you Catholics believe the reverse because your Priests force this down you along with their cocks and you swallow it greedily because of your diseased souls. Sad.

>>139574151

The idea that Catholics worship saints or ask for divine providence from them is one of the most enduring misunderstandings between Caths and Proddies.

The practice of praying to saints is based on three things

>Intercession (simply praying for another person) is possible
>People in the afterlife are fully aware of what is going on down on earth
>Saints (i.e. people alive or dead who are in God's grace) don't stop being Christians after they die. They continue to pray and worship God

So from these facts, we know that it is possible to talk to a saint who has died and ask for him or her to pray for you. Saints in heaven are closer to God than you, so having them as a partner in prayer directed towards God would be a good thing.

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>>139575776

107-108 The killer blow
>Since Peter, the rock of the Church, is thus given by Christ Himself, the master of the house (Isaiah 22:22, Revelations 3:7), the keys of the kingdom of heaven, he is the man mediator of the resurrection, and he has the task of admitting the people of God into the Kingdom of the resurrection. Jesus Himself has given him power to open entry to the coming kingdom of God, or to close it, like the Pharisees, who with their mission close the door to the kingdom of heaven, Mt 23:13. Hence what Peter does on earth will be valid in heaven. This power is expressed in the words "to bind and to loose." The best interpretation is that Peter has the power to forgive sins, though the laying down of precepts cannot be ruled out completely.
>The idea of the Reformers that He is referring to the faith of peter is quire inconceivable in view of probably different setting of the story. For there is no reference here to the faith of Peter. Rather, the parallelism of "thou art Rock" and "on this rock I will build" shows that the second rock can only be the same as the first. It is thus evident that Jesus is referring to Peter, the impulsive, enthusiastic, but not persevering man in the circle, to be the foundation of His ecclesia. To this extent Roman Catholic exegesis is right and all Protestant attempts to evade this interpretation are to be rejected. A supposed reference to "disciple" does not improve matters, for there is no mention of "disciples" in the text. The meaning of the logion rests on the two words Peter and the one rock.

>>139575430
Yes, Catholics believe "in him." That passage doesn't say whosoever believes in sola fide or any Protestant distinctives. If you're being consistent, you must either admit that the differences between Protestants and Catholics are inconsequential, or that believing "in him" entails more than you're implying.

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Fucking Protestants, fucking orthodox

>>139575552
>you can't continue to sin after being saved or you'll end up in hell
So I guess you think Peter is burning in hell because he lied about knowing Jesus? Any lie gets you sent to hell
Revelation 21
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

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>>139575640
The Catholic Church, itself worships Satan. It is encoded in EVERY aspect of the Vatican, only the Church does not admit this to its retarded followers.

>>139575628
>>139575676
>Do you even know what apostolic succession means and why it's a thing ? No ? Obviously.
>>inb4 muh tradition is a hoax

You probably don't but even if you do priests aren't one of the 12 apostles

>>139575737
Read the Bible you unsaved idiot.

>you can let go of women you don't like

>When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. She shall put off the cloths of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

>the Bible has guidelines for people who practice polygamy

>If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her who is unloved, then it shall be, on the day he bequeaths his possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true firstborn. But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.(Deuteronomy 21:15-17)

>>139575552
That's good for you. Most Protestants disagree and believe that someone who is once saved (if truly saved) is always saved regardless of their future sins. Even Lutherans who believe that you can lose salvation by apostasy do not believe that you can lose salvation by sinning as long as you mantain faith, even without repentance..

>>139575750
I posted a hundred earlier. And can you tell me how it's cherrypicking when it says "whosoever believeth" and "he that believeth"? And John was written to get people saved.

>>139575551
It was in my History book when I was in middle-school. This was back when school was based. It called it out for what it is.

Money changes from sinners hand to the Catholic Church because of said sins. It's as simple as that. I've argued with many Catholics about certain things they do, and their answer seems to be to just change the name of what they are doing.

>The statues of Mary are not idols, they are commemorations!

>We're not praying to Mary, we are venerating her!

Christ even said something about not using "trinkets" for prayer or something, made me think of those anal beads Catholics like to hold during prayer. Absolutely heretic.

I bet some Pope or some Cardinal of the past liked to use anal beads and then tricked the masses into holding it during Mass because he was absolutely degenerate anyway, wasn't really a follower of Christ, and thought it'd be funny.

>>139575825
>>139576035

On a scale of 1/'dumber than a slice of bread', where do you place yourselves ?
Spreading outright lies and misinformation will not change the fact that the catholic Church is THE Church and nothing else. As much as you degenerates are butthurt about it.

Note that stating that we're worshiping satan is outright blasphemy. Thank you and have a nice aftermath in hell.

>>139575991
Besides catholics are trying to save themselves which get you sent to hell >>139571485

>>139576187
You're not saved either if you think you have to stop sinning(which is impossible)

>>139575737
The Mosaic Law prescribed specific legal punishments for various sins/crimes, but Christians are not bound by the Mosaic law. There are some Calvinists that believe modern governments should necessarily follow the legal penalties of the Mosiac law (such as death penalty for various sexual crimes) out of principle, but they are a minority

>>139576014
Who knows? Did he repent? If so, then he goes to heaven. In fact, he quite clearly regretted his actions and most certainly did.

>And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, “Before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly." (Matthew 26:75)

>>139559012
Let's think about this:
Protestants were huge proponents of welcoming Jewish people back into Christian Europe. They were dumb enough to think, having never actually met Jewish people in many cases, that Jewish people would convert and jumpstart the apocalypse. Only after they realized that conversion was going to be impossible did they switch their tune.

The Americans didn't get the memo hence the 'Judeo-Christian' values meme and the unwavering support from the American (non-Catholic) Christians for Israel.

The Catholics tend to live very frivolously but maintain a moral code that they themselves cannot/do not totally uphold nor even try to totally uphold as they can be absolved of their mistakes. Protestants on the other hand try to do everything they can to make it seem as though the actions they take are inline with biblical morals. Haven't a clue about Orthodox.

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>>139576410
I know your cognitive dissonance will not allow you to see the truth because Satan's "Priests" have filled your head with lies to obstruct the truth from you. But still I want you to confront the truth so that one day it may creep into your soul and save you.

The Catholic Church is build on Satanism. It is hiding in every aspect of their teachings and every aspect of their administration. You just have to open your eyes, anon.

>>139576593
>but Christians are not bound by the Mosaic law.
Only some was done awaywith like the religious ones and the food ones.

>>139576531
What the fuck? Do you seriously think it's impossible to not be a degenerate human being, or are you an agent of the devil trying to tempt Good Christians into sinning?

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>>139576442
>"Besides catholics are trying to save themselves which get you sent to hell"
>Catholics are damned by their wicked works

So our works DO in fact play a role in our salvation?

>>139576129

Literally every random claim protti heretics accused the Church of then and now has been refuted a million times, even on thise board, and the putrid hate protties still have for the Church random >feels reasons is just ludicrous.

Note that this particular and unlimited hate which protestants have for the original Church is even more confirmation that we infact ARE the real and only Church. The devil has seduced you into thinking you're somehow equal or even above God, just as he did with Eve. Repent now, because this path will lead you only to hell and nowhere else.

>>139574229
But both the Greek terms from which the etymology for "church" is traced just mean "community" - "kyriakos" being "one belonging to a lord", with the Lord ("kyrios") in question being Christ of course and "ecclesia" being even directly "congregation". All this guy is saying is that Petrus was appointed to head the community, supposed to lay the foundation for further learning of the truth. Certainly nothing about building or founding any particular "church" whatsoever. Fucking slaver kikes and their pilpul bullshit.

>>139576678
Besides it says "he that believeth"(john 3:36 KJV) which would include people that believe but still sin. I'm not saying you should sin and you'll be punished on earth for it(Hebrews 12) but you're still saved if you do.

>>139576410
This is a sin, so consider this my confession. I'm actually glad Catholicism exists. It pretty much ensures the majority of Mexicans won't be going to Heaven.

>>139576345
Middle school history books are wrong about quite a lot, you would find if you studied history seriously. In your case, you don't enough to even tell me what you're talking about by name. You can't not know anything about Catholicism and then talk down to practicing Catholics, lecturing them about what they really do, when in fact it is something they never do.

>>139575540
Evangelicals are protestants.

>>139575107
I've always thought it was Jesus handing Peter the command of the disciples like you Catholics think, but I've never read that as establishing Jesus telling Peter that he will be in charge of all Christians, and pass that responsibility onto someone of his choosing, or even someone who bought the title like the Borgia Pope.

What do you Catholics make of I Timothy 2:5
>For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Because it seems you like to put men as mediators between man and God, like priests in confessions.

>>139576702

>The Catholic Church is build on Satanism
Jesus himself instated the catholic Church. Your view is nothing but the hate, the (((merchants))) have for it and our Lord and Savior.
I pity you, because you have been deceived into holding yourself more valuable than God.

>>139576783
Saying you need to repent of your sins is counted as works and believing you have to do works gets you sent to hell(Matthew 7:21-23)

>>139576790
It's not your works that send you to hell but you thinking you need to do them

>>139576710
Nearly the entire letters to the Romans and the Galatians are about how Christians are free from the law. The only parts of the law that apply are those that existed before the law anyway, like those touching on basic moral principles.

>>139576410
well i personally am a 1 because i am MUCH smarter than bread

>>139576882
If you don't repent you go to hell. It's simple as that. True Christians know that the Bible, Old and New Testaments combined, promises Hell for countless sinners.

>Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

>>139576930
Alright, just don't forget to bring your anal beads to the next Mass gathering.

>>139576867
Besides none have

1 Timothy 3
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
>2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
>, the husband of one wife

>>139577122
Catholics believe in Jesus so they are saved, period. The extra stuff doesn't matter for salvation. Read John 3:16.

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>>139576878
>and I give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever thou shalt lose on earth shall be losed in heaven

>>139577122
Asking for forgiveness isn't working you idiot. The verse you quoted applies most to catlicks who pay lip service to God and continue to mock Him on a daily basis.

>>139577258
The Bible says quite a bit about controlling your tongue.

>>139577209
Wrong. If it says "whosoever believeth" but you need to repent than it means Jesus was lying. You should repent if your sins but you don't have to.

>>139577352
besides they believe a false gospel. Mormans believe in Jesus but they aren't saved

>>139577352
Matthew 7: 21-23

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Bye, Catholics.

>>139577401
Yes it is
Jonah 3:10King James Version (KJV)

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
>God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;

>>139566606
Explain

>>139577453
Are you accusing (God forgive me) Jesus of SINNING? What do you think the belief Jesus was referring to meant? That God simply existed? Or to believe in God and follow His Will?

>>139577271

And what's your point ? The Church is the bride you mong. Clergy is literally married to God. You're outright spreading more misinformation due to severe illiteracy and ignorance it seems.

But it's not like I'd expect self-proclaimed apostles to be any reasonable. Or smart. Or anything beyond being self-proclaimed apostles.

Thank you and have a nice day. God bless you and may the Holy Mother pray for you, too.

>>139576992
Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and mankind. However, does that mean that he does not delegate responsibilities to others? No, of course not. Look at the apostles. As far as the sacraments, there is baptism (teach all nations, baptizing them...), confession (as the Father harh sent me, so I send you), Eucharist (do this in memory of me) etc.

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>>139577062
The Priests must have fiddled with you in a very traumatic way to have fucked your mind in this way.

Jesus had NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church, (((Saul))) of Tarsus created the Church, a hundred years after Jesus was killed by the Jews and the Council of Rome occurred 300 years AFTER Jesus had died to consolidate Rome's power over the Empire.

The Satanists within the Tribe and the Pagans within Rome usurped the early & true followers of Christ, the Gnostics, and created the Catholic Church in the image of Lucifer.

>>139577424
You're taking anal beads to a mass gathering, where you worship an idol of Mary.

God will reward me for trying to save you, heathen.

>>139577713
Where did I say Jesus lied? I said that he said "whosoever believeth" so if you say a person has to repent then you're saying Jesus lied when he said that.

>>139576992
>I've always thought it was Jesus handing Peter the command of the disciples...Jesus telling Peter that he will be in charge of all Christians

Is that the official postion of many of the Protestant Churches or private speculation?

>What do you Catholics make of I Timothy 2:5

From what I understand, the official Catholic position is that the term "mediator" refers to being the one mediator of salvation. Priests don't have the power to save you, Mary doesn't have the power to save you. You can't be saved by your Priest's or Mary's sacraments, only Christ.

However, that doesn't rule out lesser mediators. For instance, you could say that your parents "saved" you by introducing you to the faith, or your pastor "saves" you by increasing your knowledge of scripture. They are "mediating" in a way, but not being that one final absolute mediator. Priests are similar. The idea that a Priest has the power to forgive sin comes from a scripture passage where Jesus grants the power to forgive sins to his Apsotles. If such a power needs to be conferred, then that would mean that not just anyone could forgive sins.

The successors of the Apostles, the priests, inhereted that power.

>>139577779
The clergy... who fuck little boys, and then protect each other when the news breaks out?

>>139577779
>The Church is the bride you mong. Clergy is literally married to God.
1. you're a retard
2. If you read the reat of the chapter it talks about children. You can't guck the church and make children

>>139577578
You are denying scripture.

>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that ''whosoever believeth in him'' should not perish, but have everlasting life.

>>139577563
John 3:16 says that whosoever believes in Jesus is saved. Are you saying that John 3:16 is wrong?

>>139577893
The verse in 1 cor 6:9 was by Jesus too, you hellbound heretic. If He promised unconditional salvation as you claimed then how do you explain that?

>>139578026
>>139578101
Besides that catholics believe a flase gospel. And then that eould mean mormans would be saved

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>>139577779
Cleanse your soul from Satan's filth, anon, the Catholic Church is built on Satanism.

>>139578026
On that final, day, we'll see if you Catholics truly believed in Christ and truly did the will of His Father.

>>139578146
Read the next few verses. Also I guess you're going to hell for lying

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DfpMTAPw1gY

>>139577352
>MUH JOHN 3:16

I haven't read any verse saying John trumps Paul. Catlick heathens have to hold this belief, because they know it's the only hope they have to go to Heaven despite their depraved, decadent, deviant, debauched, degenerate lifestyles.

>>139577122

>It's not your works that send you to hell but you thinking you need to do them

So even if Catholics profess faith in Christ, it is not enough to save them. They will be damned by the act of thinking that works will play a role in salvation. So this act of thinking, which is a work, will damn them?

Or are you arguing that this work weakens faith, because faith and works are so intertwined, and not seperate from each other? Works impact faith? What is the point of believing faith alone saves us if it is innacurate? If you need works which impact faith?

Help me out here.

>>139577986
>>139577813

Pathetic attempts to further smear the reputation of the only Church that is viable.
I'm actually surprised you fags didn't pull the pedo card earlier. Anyway, if you're not willing to put a moment thought into your bullshit, I'm not keen either to continue talking.

>>139577999

Alright satan, you have to go back.


-----------------------

God bless you and may beloved St. Pio pray for you as well.

Note that you're being so negative and destructive towards real Christians, it's just obvious deviltry at this point. Thank you.

>>139578443
So the Catholic Clergy isn't a pedophile group?

>>139578387
Thinking you need to do works damns you(thinking isn't work)

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.(see John 6:38-40 for the Father's will)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It looks like those people were boastimg and relying on their works "done many wonderful works" AND they had faith "in thy name". But Jesus still told them to fuck off.
Looks like relying on your works like orthodox and catholics do has you NOT enter Heaven

Jesus said they work iniquity because thy rely on their works. Let's see what happens to people that work iniquity.
Matthew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

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Protestant Reformation ended the Renaissance Part 1

One of the most powerful cities in history, also had nothing going for it in the beginning.NOTHING. At first look it was not supposed to succeed. Unlike other towns in the region like Lucca, Pisa, and Siena, Florence did not have a shoreline, so no sea trade like the Venetians, it did not have direct access to trade routes on the land. It did not have any immediate access to natural resources, and it had limited agricultural production capabilities. Yet in spite of this it became one the largest cities in Europe with 120,000 living there. And outside of Rome itself, it was the wealthiest city and the greatest source of Renaissance art. The Florin was the American Dollar of the day.

Florence has little to no records of transactions until about the early 1100s, probably because of high taxes. Before this Merchants in Florence (a shekel pump and dump) would use proxy towns in the surrounding area like Pisa, Lucca, and Siena to do business, where there are plenty of records of contracts and banking loans. But suddenly the same years that transactions took place in Florence the 1st walls of Florence were built (paid for by taxes). Florence made most of it's money selling wool and silk, and interest on banking loans. From the Levant, to all of Western Europe, and North Africa, it was the bank of Kings and Popes. Florence was where the Medici lived, who practically ruled all of Europe, and with their peers, they financed the entire Renaissance. It was the Medici that found great artists like Michelangelo, Botticelli, Donatello and Leonardo da Vinci, and 4 Popes were from that family.

>>139578321
What the fuck are you on? The verse in its entire context promises hell for sinners. It also promises forgiveness for all who repent. It says nothing about being able to enter heaven even if you're a filthy unrepentant catholic sinner.

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>>139578443
Judaism is the root of the Catholic Church and so Pedoism is built into its fabric. There is no need for me to bring this up as it is a given that Catholic Priests must follow this practice.

Satanism is their true creed and duping the flock is their game.

Save yourself, anon, before it's too late.

>>139578242
>On that final, day, we'll see if you Catholics truly believed in Christ and truly did the will of His Father.

Why isn't believing enough? Faith alone, my fellow Protestant. You can't add works to faith as a condition for salvation. Why, that would be downright popish.

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Last Part
>>139578623

Their power slowly increased from the 1100s to 1500s, with a brief ShekelShoah during the Black Plague in the mid 1300s.Then suddenly something happened. In the 1500s trade contracted, kings stopped doing taking out loans, cities refused to commerce with Florence and dozens of other Merchant cities in Italy that also financed the Renaissance. At first it was in Northern Germany, and England but then it spread all through out Europe, until Florence totally shut down all it's banking and trading to Italy exclusively, except for certain places in Spain, France, and the city of Amsterdam. They were so skilled and YET in spite of overcoming every obstacle, especially early on, it became a husk of it's former glory all in a single century. Also the same century as the Protestant Reformation. You see Protestants refused to commerce with Roman Catholics or Jews altogether. Suddenly all these patrons of the arts were without money to fund the Renaissance, so the Renaissance ended, choking them out in competition all over Europe until Florence had no power to even outsell Protestant made fabrics in their own city. This was the great banking war with the Buisiness Goy and the Merchant lost, so the Renaissance had to be shut down. So they packed up their bags and sailed all over the seven seas taking their florins and shekels with them. This commenced the great pirating age.

>>139578676

You're becoming more pathetic by the minute. Might as well stop posting here and rethink your priorities.

>>139559012
Its Severability as a contract between fellow believers makes it superior to roman catholicism.
If a bunch of evil queers infiltrate the leadership structure of your organization, as happens regularly at the vatican, you can take your flock and leave on peaceful terms. It's not a perfect system, mind you, and the more permanent institutions, like the Jesuits vatican homos send to infiltrate and pervert protestant seminaries and universities, are at liberty to harass you in myriad ways, but it has the best track record of producing advanced civilizations over the long run.

>>139578634
1. watch the video
2. You can still sin retard. It's impossible not to sin(Romans 3) because you're still in the flesh. And again it says "whosoever believeth" not "whosoeverbelieveth and repents of their sins"

>>139578378
I'm confused, is it "whosever believes" or "whosoever believes and [insert long list of things that John didn't write]"? Also, didn't Paul teach justification by faith ''alone'' in Romans?

>>139578681
I have a feeling that Catholics haven't arrived at true faith in the resurrection of Christ. I just don't see any Catholics going to Heaven when so many outright ignore half the things Christ ever said.

>>139578802
So Catholic clergy men are not part of a pedo-network? Answer.

>>139578831
You're taking it out of context. How can you claim to believe in God and yet ignore His Doctrine? The Bible clearly teaches us what happens to sinners.

>>139578946
Does John 3:16 say "whosoever believeth in him" or "whosoever believeth in the things he hath said?"

>>139579046
Yeah unsaved sinners. Everyone sins and I bet you have lied atleast once since believing in Christ.

>>139578602

Fine, thinking isn't a work.
But you do admit that something other than a loss of faith can damn you.

Or you admit that the sin of thought leads to loss of faith, which means other sins, including the ones that fit the definition of work can lead to loss of faith. So faith and works are intertwined.

Either way, in order for Catholics to be damned, you would have to abandon sola fide

>>139559012
It's not.

Christian Identity is.

Kill your local pagan/jew ally

>>139578895
You can't have faith in God and break every of His rules. In that case you don't truly have faith in Him, because you don't believe He has the power to punish you like He has promised. If you are a Good Christian who follow the Bible you go to Heaven. No "good works" or whatever nonsense that catlicks subscribe to.

>>139579203
>But you do admit that something other than a loss of faith can damn you.
Nope. You can do whatever you want but you'll still punished on earth for it
Hebrews 12
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons

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>tfw I'm a Lutheran but my pastor never went on long rants about the jews like Martin Luther did

>>139579153
I have never lied after being baptised. How dare you project your degenerate sins on me. It completely baffles my mind that you believe that it's impossible to live life withour sinning. It's not difficult to live a life without sin.

>>139579139
Like I said. I don't think you guys arrived at true faith in Him and His resurrection. You guys are the LARPers who cry "Lord Lord!" in Matthew 7: 21-23, but never truly believed in anything or cared. Faith is just an organization to you. The Church, the congregation, the mass. It doesn't go beyond this for you. That's why you guys don't care that your church is doing things The Bible says not to. If you really believed, the Holy Spirit would repel you from such acts.

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>>139578802
My priority is to save you and all lost souls which have been sucked into Satan's church.

Open your eyes and look at the symbols of Satan ALL over the Vatican, hidden in PLAIN sight.

I will pray for your lost soul that it finds the light.

>>139579478
>I have never lied after being baptised.
that's probably a lie. Even lying about the color of your shoes gets you sent hell. Also it is impossible to not sin
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
watch the video in >>139578321

>>139574247
Yes, but hinduism is an aryan creation. It is related to European paganism.

>>139579398

Punished on earth, but not in heaven

If you want to say Catholics are damned, then why not abandon the whole sola fide thing. There are many protestants who have a lax attitude toward it, why not be one of them

>>139579814
Because you are saved by faith alone but you need to know it's by faith alone

>>139579274
You are conflating faith and works. Following the Bible is a work. Faith is believing. Does John 3:16 say, "whosoever believes in him" is saved or "whosoever follows the Bible" is saved? Do you believe in salvation by faith alone or faith plus works. If you say that there's no such thing as faith alone without works, then what's the difference between salvation by faith alone or salvation by faith plus works. I ask you, do you believe in salvation by faith ''alone?''

>>139579716
Why the fuck would you need to lie about the colour of your shoes? You need to seek help you sick degenerate, if it's not already too late for you. We are indeed born of sin, but once we're baptised our sins are washed away.

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>>139577394
Kingdom of Heaven is the act of forgiveness itself or any community governed by it as a principle though (Matthew 18:19 and following) - and there the word about the loosening and binding is in the plural form. This would seem to indicate that Peter's job was to preside over the others in event of disagreement about what is or is not with Christ then, and that there is now in fact a Bible suggests that the task is already done. What am I missing here?

>>139579951
>Why the fuck would you need to lie about the colour of your shoes?
It was an example of even lies that don't hurt anyone still gets you sent to hell.
Also being baptised doesn't wash away sins(even if it did you have to believe to be baptized and believing washes away your sins). Just watch the video

>>139579950
What nonsense. How can you understand God without the Bible? If you actually read the Bible outside of John 3:16 you'd know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

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>>139580049
>ecclesia means congregation i'm so smart and intellectual
Kek you're like a little baby.
>ignoring that verse
You're just ignoring that verse. You're just denying it saying "no it's not" Not very convincing PLEB

>>139579915

So you are saved by faith alone, but not really, because knowledge of this doctrine alongside your faith is necessary

And knowledge of that doctrine is the only extra "thing" that has to go with your faith, no other works.

Am I right?

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>>139577710
He can't, his papal-programmed mind allows him to insult, but not argue.

>>139580272
knowledge =/= works

>>139580138
Sounds to me like you're a pathological liar who can't control himself from sinning and can't imagine a life without sin. You're either the devil, or so warped by the evil doctrine of the catlick church that your soul is long gone. I'd pray for you but I doubt it'll do much.

>>139578681

Matthew 7:16-20(KJV)
>16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Faith alone earns salvation, but I can't imagine someone who is faithful to the LORD, yet does no works.


20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>>139580355

Yeah, bit it is something extra aside from faith

So saved through faith, knowledge of this doctrine, but not works, alone.

>>139580232
What? What verse am I ignoring, specifically?

>>139580502
From what I understand catlicks like to spout some nonsense like non christians who do good things go to Heaven or some other heretical nonsense like that. No, being True to the Bible isn't works and in order to have Faith in God you have to follow His doctrine.

>>139580221
So you do not believe in salvation by faith alone, but works salvation. Got it.

>>139580424
I never said sinning was something you should do just that if you do you still can go to Heaven.

>>139580502
Because if you think you need to do works then you're trying to save yourself instead of trusting Jesus to save you

>>139580713
In order to have Faith in God you need to follow the Bible, yes. That doesn't mean your virtue signalling god mocking catlick neighbour is going to heaven however.

>>139580453
So if someone appears righteous by their works, they must be saved? You're taking that passage out of context. It's specifically about prophets.

>>139580716
Which part of 1 cor 6:9-10 didn't you understand?

Imagine if you went out and laid in a pile of shit (your addiction to lying), regretted it (your repentance) and asked God to help you clean yourself of the filth. God happily agrees, and scrubs you clean. Then you go back into the dung pile and wait for your sentence to hell. Why would you do that? That's exactly what you're doing.

>>139566270
>Sigh. What protestants are actually saying is that Christ and His Church failed for 1,500 years.

That is literally what the bible claims

>Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

>18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

>>139581129
>Which part of 1 cor 6:9-10 didn't you understand?
I understand all of it. Once you get saved your sins aren't counted against you for salvation

>why would you do that?
Because everyone is in their sinful flesh.

I need to get off now but you should watch this video he explains it better
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DfpMTAPw1gY

>>139581400
>I understand all of it. Once you get saved your sins aren't counted against you for salvation
But if you're not saved then they are

>>139581400
What did Jesus mean by the unrighteous not being able to inherit the Kingdom of God then?

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deus vult

>>139559012
your silly imaginary god is laughable and disprovable. go fuck yourself, you idiot..


wanna come clean my bathroom for $20?

>>139581501
Righteous by faith

>>139568783
>No, private interpretation of the Scriptures that especially do not belong to your faith tradition.

but then catholics did exactly the same only the prots did interpreted it 500 years ago and the catholics did it 1500 years ago

>>139568783
lol Catholics take anal beads to church and worship an idol of Mary.

>>139581501
Then He goes on to list all the sinners which are going to hell. We all know that the faithless are going to hell, so why the need to explain that faithless sinners are going to hell too? The only logical, honest and Christian conclusion is that sinners who claim to have Faith in God (they don't, or they wouldn't sin) burn in hell, along and the faithless and the catholics.

You cling onto this belief, that sinners can go to heaven, because you know it's the only hope you have to go to Heaven. You are too lazy to truly repent and devote your life to God and you want to continue your degenerate, shoe-colour lying ways. I'm afraid reality isn't that convinient and the path you walk will surely lead you to hell..

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>>139581528
>your silly imaginary god
>kekistan flag
you dumb nigger

>>139573233
This is so full of blatant misinformation its evil.

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>>139559012
>>139559147
Nether.

I am not an American.

I am the "Catholic Terror" you read about the 20th century. I don't regret being a solider, but I regret what I served. The US government.

Fuck democracy, Fuck the Republic, Fuck the Constitution.

>>139579408
Thats because he used to be Catholic. Unlike your pastor.

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>>139581528
Trump will only be worth my vote if he somehow ends democracy.