Are there better ways to oppose (((MGTOW))) than virgin shaming?

>>139192773
Legalize prostitution. This will familiarize them with women, in a way that has no risks to them. Maybe make them wish for real relationship.

>>139192773
I think the shaming is more about discouraging others from becoming like them. For those already MGTOW it just reinforces them. And if they are virgins, then the goal just becomes to have sex, not have real relationships and a family, etc.

>unhealthy
>anti family
Nothing wrong with this faggot fuck off and kill yourself

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>>139192773
A lot of them aren't virgins. They're chads or half-chads who fucked around until they were 28, realized they should be settling down with a family, looked around for a girl a realized that the only ones left who actually want someone age 28-32 as husband material are women of the same age who have just decided to stop riding the cock carousel. The men realize they are only meeting low quality women, and they have only ever had or pursued relationships with low quality women, therefore they assume all women are low quality whores.

The reality of the situation is that good women marry young. If they hadn't spend ages 18-22 fuckin' holes and buying into the "live your life, don't settle down!" meme, they might have met a few. All that's left for them is roasties, and they're right. Those women will destroy you. They are sluts, they will cheat, they will divorce you, they will fuck you up the asshole with custody, alimony, child support, all while ruining your reputation. MGTOW is largely made up of idiots who wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to fuck bitches during their prime years and then settle down later. Now all the quality women have been snatched up and are busy pumping out babies and they're sitting there wondering what happened. Where are all the good women? They're married and moms already. You missed the boat MGTOW. I don't blame you for not wanting to get taken to the cleaners by a roastie, but you're the male version of that. Don't cry to everyone else like a sobbing pussy because you waited too long and all the good girls are gone, you should have seen this coming but you wanted to "live life".

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>>139192773
>Liberals launch anti-bullying crusade
>Every elementary school has to sit through medicore anti-bullying assemblies.
>Kids committing suicide thrown in their faces as warning
>Trump is a bully, he can't be president
>Hey, let's make fun of this fat autistic kid because he's obsessed with some Internet meme that lets him cope with the fact that he'll never get laid.
Fucking bullies, when will they learn?

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>>139192773
Maybe, like, fix marriage law, if it's not a bother.
That would basically nuke mgtow.

>>139192773

Why bother trying to bring them to our side? It's better for the world if those losers don't procreate.

>>139192773
>hey, wanna take on an expensive lifelong responsibility because society thinks you should?

nah

>>139192773
We couldn't get girlfriends even if we tried though

>>139198228
You could stop trying to convince other people to give up.

>>139192773
MGTOW is Jewish propoganda.

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>>139198039
>hey, wanna take on an expensive lifelong responsibility because society thinks you should?

sure thing if you give me them welfare gibsmedats bix nood

t. black mothers of 8 little niglets who are out-breeding your lineage due to r-selection

>>139195695
>be bullied teenager
>decide to finally stand up to bullies
>get detention
This anti-bullying shit is a lie anon. Better to train kids to be strong than to create fake anti-bullying programs.

>>139192773

True you can't shame and effectively troll people who have no shame or standards. I have noticed the same with antifa

>>139192773
>How else can we deprogram them of their unhealthy, anti-family jewish brainwashing, and reprogram them with healthy, pro-white brainwashing?
Simple take women's rights away and then the mgtows will stop being mgtows as most of them will have families and deal with women more since the risks do not outweigh the benefits anymore (aka the woman does not have any rights so she cannot divorce rape you or accuse you of shit).

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>>139192773
Not all MGTOWs are virgins, a few of them are edgy try hards who think they are the shit for being too much of a pussy to stay committed to someone.

The only thing more pathetic than the permavirgin manchild are the possible chads purposely becoming edgy autists in their approach to women because they are too scared to grow the fuck up.

I've never come across 1 MGTOW that wasn't a turbo autist. Hell, they are even more cancerous than these Kekistani freaks.

>>139200963
I'd rather stick with my fembot tbph

>>139201253
>man up and pay for my shit!

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>>139201312
>muh fembot

>>139201508
Stay mad Arby's girl

>>139201312
>I'd rather stick with my fembot tbph
If you take women's rights away (not just MRA bullshit of making divorce court more fair to men) then i might get into a long term relationship and id least consider marriage but right now i am not getting into any form of monogamous relationship as i will cheat and move on once i get bored or she starts demanding shit.

I am fine with short term flings with women but i don't want to marry or get into long term relationships and i only want 1 to 2 kids (only to be had by some form of spic woman fuck mixing with white girls there shit).

>>139201402
Fuck off, Sandman.

>>139192773
>oppose
Let them die. Just tell them to do it somewhere else or be quiet about it.

>>139201709
>pay for my shit, pay for my useless student loan debt! Pay for my credit card debt
>then maybe we will have weekly sex

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We give them the truth. We keep spamming them with statistics that prove their 'theories' about woman and marriage are bullshit.

It's very very easy to debunk mgtow.

Starting with this 50%-60% divorce rate they keep claiming. Real divorce rate is around 30%, but half of those divorces belong to teenagers. So just wait until you are at least 25 years old to marry.

>>139201253
>Not all MGTOWs are virgins, a few of them are edgy try hards who think they are the shit for being too much of a pussy to stay committed to someone.
This is cunt logic as commitment does not require marriage and commitment is not proof of being masculine or not being a pussy.

By your standard someone who lives in danger and lives to die in his everyday existence is a pussy because he won't commit to a woman regardess of his other action in life.

Also commitment is fag shit.
>The only thing more pathetic than the permavirgin manchild are the possible chads purposely becoming edgy autists in their approach to women because they are too scared to grow the fuck up.
Grow up basically means to castrate yourself and get married to a woman as to grow up you must become a slave and accept your fate as such.

If you live for yourself you are a manchild who refuses to grow up and accept being slave like real men do.

>>139201779
Yeah I'm sure it's just a dead end...I mean, what else could be contributing towards men's rejection of women?
It's not like a socialization or legal problem. The genes won't pass on and then problem solved right?

>>139201662
Even then, I really don't want to support someone who offers nothing but sex and occasionally housework. Especially at the cost of a wife, at less with a fembot you just have to pay for power and the occasional repair.

>>139201931
>Real divorce rate is around 30%
Still does not matter as marriage is a shit deal that is not worth the risk of divorce regardless.

Divorce is bullshit that destroys men's lives and seeks to support the big child with tits with your money just because you were a dumbass to sign a piece of paper with it.
>but half of those divorces belong to teenagers
Teenagers are from 13 to 19 anything past that is no longer a teenager and while 16 years old's can technically get married most couples are not all that young when they get divorced (the teen girl of the highschool fling divorces when she is 30 not 19).

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>>139201931

Don't get married as a teenager and your marriage has a really good chance. Men should marry around 30 so they have maturity, and their marriage has almost 95% chance of making it until-death-do-we-part.

Just use logic. I was former MGTOW and still am basically but logically the only way most men will have any impact on future society is by their heirs. Doing nothing is not effective for any type of political or demographic change. And also white men won't win this fight with women. The whole virgin mgtow is a completely wrong stereotype imo.

>>139202073
>Especially at the cost of a wife
If i got married (in a world where gynocentric bullshit was not existence) she would wearing wags and eating cans of beans and cheap ass mash potatoes (no fancy ass shit that actually costs me).

Even then i only said i might marry not will if women lose their rights. In our society i will not get married as long as i get free choice. Unless i am literally forced to or tricked into it i will not consent to marriage.

>>139193507
no. most of them are stupid teenage virgins that don't like the pressure of being male in todays gynocentric society. they are bitches pure and simple

Enjoy not fucking your women while the go off to ride dark colored cock because of pussies like you.

Its called having a brain and treating the sluts like sluts and the potential mothers of your children like they are

>>139202394
I don't see that happening any time soon

>>139202190

>Still does not matter as marriage is a shit deal that is not worth the risk of divorce regardless.

Let me guess, the debunked 'beta provider male' 'cuckolding theory' 'sexless marriage' and all those other urban legends.

I don't care about your anecdotal rebuttal. I'm talking about trends that study after study reveal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgnrRyVFRFs

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>>139192773
Why do you cucks oppose MGTOW? Women will be obsolete soon.

>>139192773
It's fucking retarded. Start with that.

>>139202190
>>139202394
>>139202073

>Still does not matter as marriage is a shit deal that is not worth the risk of divorce regardless.

Let me guess, the debunked 'beta provider male' 'cuckolding theory' 'sexless marriage' and all those other urban legends.

(I don't care about your anecdotal rebuttal. I'm talking about trends that study after study reveal.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgnrRyVFRFs

>>139202766
MGTOW is like...3.25/10

Which is pretty high

>>139202722
Because they're white knights who like messy roast beef sandwiches, also a lot of attention starved women and trannys browse this board

>>139202582
>I don't see that happening any time soon
Then it ain't fucking happening but at least i have set up my own personal mission in life so i can function without fucking marriage and family as i have other more important goals to complete during the short time i am alive.
>>139202617
>the debunked 'beta provider male' 'cuckolding theory' 'sexless marriage' and all those other urban legends.
If my wife were to try to cuck me then id just kill her (another reason i ain't getting married as if i get life in prison the mission is over).

Marriage is a shit deal because i get nothing in return for high amount of risk. I do not get guaranteed access to sex in marriage (if i take it from her i get thrown in prison for rape), she does not have to bring anything to the table to get half my shit and more.

Marriage is just not worth it as it is a bad tradeoff it is me trading thousands of hours of work (aka money) for something that does not have to give me anything in return and gets it no matter what happens.

I am not busting my ass working just so some cunt can have it because the courts gave it to her to avoid her going on welfare and because i was a dumbass who signed a contract with her.

>>139202617
>>139202817
Nice copy and paste here you fucking faggot.

>>139203018
The Tradcuck shills have been notified and are swarming the thread

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>>139202190
>>139202394
>>139202073

If you are poor, and you want to stop being poor, get married and stay married, because nothing, and I mean nothing is more wealth-building than a long marriage.

There isn't anything else you can do that will give you the same kind of income gains. And like stated previously, the odds of divorce are much lower than commonly believed.

>>139203120
Who pays you? Your blatant shilling is repulsive

>>139202981

>Marriage is a shit deal because i get nothing in return for high amount of risk.

False. Debunked. Urban legends. Married men have more sex, better quality of sex than single men. They are happier. They live longer. And they make huge income gains.

(I don't care about your anecdotal rebuttal. I'm talking about trends that study after study reveal.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgnrRyVFRFs

>>139203200
Who pays you to piss your pants whenever someone looks you in the eye?

>>139203120
>If you are poor, and you want to stop being poor, get married and stay married, because nothing, and I mean nothing is more wealth-building than a long marriage.
That it is because your wife will make you get a better job and work more hours as she can divorce you at any time and rationalize it as not providing enough for her.

She can rationalize how she is worth more then some 20k a year loser then demand more till you make 50k and then she rationalize how she is worth more then a 50k loser etc.
>There isn't anything else you can do that will give you the same kind of income gains
Marriage is a income loss over anything else as you must now split the money multiple ways especially with kids involved.

Now to make money here is what you must do and it is called working alot of hours possibly even multiple jobs and overtime then saving up and investing it in a wise manner.

This is what is gonna give you wealth not some marriage ass bullshit like you tradcucks from pragerU want us to believe.
>the odds of divorce are much lower than commonly believed.
Take all of women's rights away then ill consider marriage till then i don't care about the odds its a shit deal.

>>139203304
>0.2 cents have been deposited in your account

>>139203200

Just the facts. The wage increase married men receive is one of the most well
documented statistics in social science.

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>>139203473
See you can't shame someone like that. You can call him an ugly autistic virgin sperg and he will be proud of it.

>>139203302
>sex is worth giving up for your time, money, and energy
Sex is a primitive and animalistic act
Fucking kill yourself tradfaggot

Nigger no one going mgtow cares for any type of argument. Your women are whores. Now go shove them up your ass.

>>139203473

They are not giving up money, they are gaining money by huge amounts.

The wage increase married men receive is one of the most well documented statistics in social science.

After a man gets married, his income begins to rise. The longer he stays married the higher it will go. By the time he retires he will
be out earning men in the same profession by up to a vast 40%

Economic expert Robert Schoeni lead a study of 14 different developed countries, and in every one of them the married men
out earned the single or divorced.

Even accounting for children, on average the married man will also retire with $300k more in
total accrued wealth and assets than the single or divorced.

From taxes to insurance, married couples pay less and get more. Over time this adds up. In one study, married couples saw their
wealth and assets double over a five year period.

Two people who get married will accomplish more, save more, and accumulate more wealth and assets than either one of them could have done alone.

TL/DR Wives are not gold-diggers, they are gold mines.

>>139203439
Now I'm at least twice as rich as you.

>>139203302
>Married men have more sex
But their wives are not required to put out by law in any manner so if their wife turns off sex say bye bye to it as you cannot force her to without going to prison.

Marital rape laws prevent you from doing so.
>better quality of sex than single men
Bullshit as married sex is the same sex. It is not with different women.
>They live longer
A tamed animal lives longer in in a cage then in the wild however the tamed animal has a lower quality of life compared to his free counterpart even if he lives longer.

Either way it does not matter if you live longer married as living a thousand years in 1 (a live fast die lifestyle) and dying in your 20's 30's 40's and 50's is far better then being a tamed animal and dying in your 70's 80's 90's and 100's.

Either way id rather live life how i wanted and dying young rather then living old with some wife whom i slaved my ass for.

>>139203703
Must be racking up the shekels will all this shilling.

>>139203702

Marriage increases a man's income as much as getting a college degree.

People talk about the value of education, but don't talking about the value of marriage.

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Anyone else noticed how MGTOWcucks are obsessed with cucking? I bet most of them masturbate their tiny dicks to tranny hentai and nigger dick sissy porn

/r9k/ was a mistake

>>139203702
>After a man gets married, his income begins to rise. The longer he stays married the higher it will go.
That is because of he gets divorced then it will decrease as the wife gets half your shit in divorce court.

So when you compare married men to divorcees then of course they will make more money because the divorcee got raped in court and was taken for everything.

Also that ignores that the married man has to earn the money to keep from getting divorced as a single man will live just to get by and enjoy his life while a married man has to work more and a divorced man used to have money but it got stripped away from them.
>TL/DR Wives are not gold-diggers, they are gold mines
These cunts are gold diggers either way as you are the one making the goddamned money not her.

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>>139192773

Can you remove women's rights? MGTOWs already know its the feminist welfare state enabling single motherhood and the cum dumpster females of the West.

But you're a trad-cuck, probably a massive beta fat ass at that too

>none of you losers are going to attack the status quo
>none of you will ever effect the socio-economic mecha making men MGTOW
>none of you are alphas when you think socio-psych is your best weapon

Keep pounding that keyboard with those fat ass fingers

Also marriage is for cucks
>the entire premise is based on the woman's happiness, it is commitment to her, not your dick, not your happiness
>children in this feminist society don't respect their fathers, rent seeking usury of the corrupt people has even destroyed the time quota that women once had to raise children, now its the feminist state
>you're value is going to a whore, an expensive long term whore just so that you can access reproduction

betas are massive losers, stay mad faggot

>>139203979
So you could either be the man in that image, or either of the two people halfway off screen.

Or you can take a third option

Anyone else noticed how tradcucks are obsessed with cucking? I bet most of them masturbate their tiny dicks to tranny hentai and nigger dick sissy porn

/pol/ was a mistake

>>139192773
MGTOW begins small group loser men, feminist using MGTOW as proxy to shame men don't marry and people attack them, just ignore MGTOW and promote marriage as way to be happy, give advice about get good girl to marriage easy follow steps, r/redpill begin so toxic and r/bluepill will never write down dating advice to men, just be father figure a lot young men don't had.

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>Gender Attraction Differential
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vqRbScCIPU&

>MGTOW: A Unified Theory of the Human Condition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlT-dq9cn7o&

>Your Looks and Your Inbox
https://theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e?gi=7e39b92a6822

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>>139192773
you're finished roastie faggot. go raise jamals baby if you want but actual real men aren't going to waste their time anymore. women aren't worth it. we'll just wait for sexbots and artificial wombs

>>139193012
It is legal here and I still don't care about women. And I highly doubt that it's hard to find a whore in the US either.

>>139203702
>most well documented statistics in social science
>most well documented statistics
>most well documented
>well documented
Code word to identify leftist or women.

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>>139204279
Lol it's that ugly creepy cucknadian fury sperg who is into robots and sonic figurines. You aren't in aposition to judge anyone you hideous genetic failure omega male manchild you are the lowest of the low.

>>139193507
good writeup, except for the fact that these men could just as easily stop whoring themselves and start going for a well behaved younger girl. women on the other hand, dont have this option after their cock carousel ride is over.

>>139204428
Lol it's that ugly creepy cucknadian fury sperg who is into roasties and hitler figurines. You aren't in a position to judge anyone you hideous genetic failure omega male manchild you are the lowest of the low.

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How do we fix ugly omega male /r9k/cucks?

>>139198833
those that go mgtow 90% of the time have already given up and found others who have been through what they have.

>>139204597
How do we fix ugly omega /pol/cucks ?

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>>139204507
Stop sperging out ugly freak of nature. Go hug your Sonic plushy and take deep breaths. Everything is going to be alright

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>>139202548
>in todays gynocentric society
then either
a) make it non gynocentric and I'll accept responsibilites or
b) make it so the women have to initiate and bear all responsibilities
or I'm not interested and because there's nothing logical about it

>>139204633
>found others who have been through what they have.

Looking at the image of the post you replied to. Exactly what could a person like that have gone through?

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>>139192773
MGTOW isn't going to go away until all forms of feminism go away.

When you're dealing with a dating market as horrifically toxic as the modern one of course there's going to be people dropping out. I know /pol/ has this fantasy where every white guy goes to the gym, does cutting and bulking cycles for 4 years and becomes super ripped and grows to 6'2" but that's not feasible and even if it was women's desires are relative. If every man is a Chad, women will pick the Chaddiest Chad. If every man is a fatass, women will pick the Chaddiest fatass. Their sexual desire comes from an animalistic instinct to see "you and you, fight, and I'll spread my legs for whoever wins."

Marriage, disallowing women to practice sexual selection, and subjugation of women is the only true method of success.

>>139204702
Stop sperging out ugly freak of nature. Go hug your Hitler plushy and take deep breaths. Everything is going to be alright

>>139204821
>i cant find a girl, i need my parents to find one for me. ima twue alpha

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MGTOW is a coping mechanism for ugly omega males and other sexual deviant weirdos (weeaboos furys queers). They have created a virginity cult on reddit and spread propaganda trying to convince normal people that they are virgins by choice. Keep mocking them and nobody sane will want to associate with those ugly creepy freaks

>>139205000
>It's a "right-wing" feminst post

>>139192773
>slut shaming
>virgin shaming
can't have it both ways lad.

>>139205042
Traditionalism is a coping mechanism for ugly omega males and other sexual deviant weirdos (nazi queers, pedophiles ). They have created a virginity cult on /pol/ and spread propaganda trying to convince normal people that they are virgins by choice. Keep mocking them and nobody sane will want to associate with those ugly creepy freaks

>>139205068
i just don't like insecurity.

>>139205042
> They have created a virginity cult on reddit
MGTOW begins way old and r/MGTOW are utter shit, thinking old forum MGTOW was like /fit/,/biz/,/pol/ and /g/.

>>139205230
If "literally how the world worked for hundreds and hundreds of years before the 1920s" is insecurity, I'll take that over what we currently have.

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>>139205166
Don't mind the ugly /r9k/ manchild everyone he is having another sperg out. I bet he is screaming in his room breaking stuff while his poor mom is freaking out wishing she had aborted him. Maybe if you weren't born your Dad wouldn't have left you and she wouldn't have started taking pills. I bet she has also seen all that weird Wall-E porn you have saved on your computer and is freaking out. Kill yourself now that poor woman doesn't deserve this

>>139205386
Everyone I've met in arranged marriage has been miserable

>>139205386
i still do not like insecurity

>>139205470
ok

>>139205467
Why do you masturbate your tiny dick to Wall E porn? This isn't normal you are a freak. There is something wrong with your brain you were born fucked up and can't be fixed. You know what to do...

>>139205424
Don't mind the ugly /pol/ manchild everyone he is having another sperg out. I bet he is screaming in his room breaking stuff while his poor mom is freaking out wishing she had aborted him. Maybe if you weren't born your Dad wouldn't have left you and she wouldn't have started taking pills. I bet she has also seen all that weird Nazi porn you have saved on your computer and is freaking out. Kill yourself now that poor woman doesn't deserve this

Or antifa will do the job for her, they've done an excellent job of forcing you back into your moms basement

>>139205543
Why do you masturbate your tiny microdick to Nazi porn? This isn't normal you are a freak. There is something wrong with your brain you were born fucked up and can't be fixed. You know what to do..

>>139205575
Ugly mentally ill sexual deviant autist weirdo kill yourself

>>139193012
What - you don't have legal prostitution, no tits on TV AND can't drink in public.
LAND OF THE FREE

>>139205628
After seeing your pathetic rallies, you're in no position to call anyone an autist. A bikelock to the head will put you back in your place

>>139205628
>Ugly mentally ill sexual deviant autist weirdo kill yourself
You are the biggest virgin on this board.

Even if all us mgtows are are virgins who cannot even so much as talk to women then we would still be less of virgins then you are buddy.

I ama virgin AMA

>>139205804
I think it's just some assblasted ham planet mad that nobody will settle for her.

Give them a reason to live thats not drenched in hair dye and screaming at them to check their privelige, and not a stupid fucking movement from Germany that got its ass kicked in the only war its fought because its leader was too much of a speging aspie to win. You all complain about jews taking over but theyve already beat you faggots, since anyone who disagrees with you tools gets labeled co trolled opposition. Plus the left continues to control the narrative and mobilize into massive rallies thst dwarf anything the right can come up with. Get over yourselves with the nazi larping and inspire American nativism and isolationism so we stop getting killed by sandniggers for fucking oil. Fuck the white race, Im for nobody else but me.

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>>139192773
Where is my monthly 1.8k eurodollar check Guido???

>>139205668
Says the man who can't deny the holocaust without serving 2 to 5.

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I'm just gonna leave this here

>>139200604
>spot the bullied kid
>send him to shooting practice
>bullies stop in fear of him becoming a school shooter

>>139203702
Your argument is stupid and doesn't even make sense
Getting married doesn't increase your wages. What MIGHT be happening is you have more pressure/incentive to do whatever you can to increase your wage and so it rises accordingly. You can do that without getting married. But if you don't have kids, who the hell would wageslave like that if they can help it?
This is why employers "like" married men. They say married men are more "responsible" and more "reliable". What they really mean is they know they have you by the balls and can make you eat shit and you'll have to thank them for it because you can't afford to lose a job when you have a family to care for.
This is the most obvious instance of correlation is not causation I think you're trolling.

>>139196468
This.

>>139201931
>So just wait until you are at least 25 years old to marry.

Yes, I'll wait to marry a chick that's sucked over 100 cocks.

>>139192773
>oppose MGTOW
WTF does this even mean? You're opposed to men choosing to live life without women? Who gives a fuck? Why would you actively oppose the inevitable?

>>139204597
Is that tiramisu? Fuck I really want some now.
Always feel so bad for these parents

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The current cycle needs to end. We are experiencing events that were set in motion thousands of years ago. Once the bottom has been reached, a new cycle may begin.

>>139205668
You can do 2/3 of those things in Nevada, just not in the same county

>>139192773
Fix marriage laws

>>139208059
they're women who want GIBSMEDAT and betabux providers. they're also male feminist cuckold nu-males who want to virtue signal and act like they're an "ally" of women and women destroying men to try and appeal to women.

basically it's all human garbage. nobody who is opposed to mgtow is actually a human

>>139192773
Have fewer males.

Throughout history, there have always been fewer men than women due of war, work-deaths, disease, etc. It is a small part of why men were generally considered more valuable than women in the past. Only in recent history has men outnumbered women.

>>139193507
I’m almost 28 and a virgin. I want a “good woman”, I guess there is no hope for me.

>>139203302
Muh dick: The post.

>>139205668
Yeah we have a serious problem with puritan prudery and tedious feminists in this country. Thankfully the internet allows me to find all the hookers I want to bang regardless of what the law says.

" anti-family jewish brainwashing" - oh, looks like it's retarded. Poor you...has the bad jew hit you again? "Muh Protocols of the elder..." Yes yes, shhh. It's going to go away if you read non fake books

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>>139192773
To make MGTOW go away:
1.) Get rid of No Fault Divorce
2.) Get rid of Alimony
3.) Punish women for adultery
BONUS ROUND: To solve 99% of our problems in society, take away women's right to vote. We'll get 1488 that way.

>>139192773
is that laura southern?