Billionaires love the idea - socialists and commies hate it

>>139089207
UBI leads to mandatory population controls

>>139089207
Of course they do, because then they'll have all that much more power of the government & the people.

>>139089207
That's the thing, they don't really know anything
Just because you've built a name for yourself making money in specific fields and hiring people to make you more money doesn't really make you qualified in policy

These are people who sit in their castles and go "wow i am so proud of the way i give 1% of my money knowing that loss won't harm my way of life in any way"

>>139089207
Cool so when can i quit my job?

>>139089207
It's easy to subjugate the people if they all rely on you 100% for their lively hood. The nice thing about capitalism is you can choose who you work for and you are in control of your own livelihood. Sure you have to try a lot harder often times but I would rather have that than being subjugated.

>becoming literal cattle
>a good idea
>flag
we need another Bomber Harris

>>139089949
Got to vote for Zuck and his new Naturalist Social Democratic American Party in 2020 then!

>>139090273
>>becoming literal cattle
why don't you want money?

>>139089968
>The nice thing about capitalism is you can choose who you work for and you are in control of your own livelihood. Sure you have to try a lot harder often times but I would rather have that than being subjugated.
But you can still choose who you work for even if you get UBI. In fact, it would be easier to choose since you would be getting money and wouldn't be as pressured to find a job as quickly as possible.

Fuedalism at its finest. They want to take us back to the Middle Ages.

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>>139089283
> UBI leads to mandatory population controls
No they don't. They just squeeze more in.
That is why they also support cycling as a cornerstone of metropolitan "environmentalism". Not because it is green or healthy but because they can fit more people into a smaller space.

They support UBI because they want to sustain a population where they have a monopoly. They know the money is coming back to them. This bankrupts the government and then (((they))) can be "philanthropists" in place of the democratically elected government.
> National rail via taxes
or
> Virgin trains via government subsidy

This is also why there is a massive campaign to control information and retain focus. Including "diversity" to make sure the brown ones are also plugged in. They don't want intergration into the existing societies but into their corporate "pop culture".

>>139089207
>Thinking the elite in their bubbles understand human nature in any way

>>139090999
check'd

>>139089207
UBI is dependency, it means someone controls you. You have to be mad to believe that UBI won't be used as a political weapon the same way the freaking internet hosting is being weaponized right now.

>>139090522
then explain why becoming no different than livestock is a good idea

>>139089207
Note that
These are all first gen billionaires that support this.

They know if everyone has it easy there is no need to hustle and become rich , I.e more competition for them.

>>139090904
yep.
>i get tv and censored internet
>they have thousands of years to run out of money.

>>139089207
It ensures everyone can buy their shit.

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>>139089207
Prophets for profit

because they want as many people as possible to surrender any ability to provide for themselves to the state. they want us to be totally reliant on them.

that's easy enough to figure out

>>139091138
>then explain why becoming no different than livestock is a good idea
free money?

>>139089207
>UBI
>Hated by the left

Have you been living under a fucking rock?

>>139089207
This globalist fuck can piss off and he can take his man made meat with him
http://globalnews.ca/news/3696391/richard-branson-bill-gates-memphis-meats/

>>139089207
>billionaires who own the government are in favor of more government

Really gets the almonds activated.

>>139089207
>hyperinflation and mass unemployment is a good thing

>>139089207
>socialists and commies hate it
citation needed

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>>139091323
>dude free shit lmao
I understand
please get in the helicopter

>>139090522
money is not the same as wealth

>>139090864
>won't be as pressured to find a job as quickly as possible
>won't be motivated to find a job at all
>be a good goy eat your tv dinner and consume your pornography and big brother will take care of everything else

>>139089207
Kills all brick and mortar services so that lazy people can inflate money buying bananas and fuck all. Having a side line welfare for disabled is fine but replace workers with machines and give them bitcoins. Brilliant. How far from gold standard we've come. BGI was invented by Milton Friedjew

>>139091575
As opposed to the current:
>be a good goy eat your tv dinner and consume your pornography after working to enrich your boss and big brother will take care of everything else

>>139091423
>>hyperinflation and mass unemployment is a good thing
650 dollars per adult, 300 dollars per child.

1000 * 250 million = 250 billion per month
300 * 75 million = 25 billion per month

minus all current welfare payments (40 billion per month)
minus admin (10 billion per month)
minus social security system (80 billion per month)

adjusted for the boost to GDP

= LITTLE IN TERMS of COSTS

Also, unemployment means people are seeking jobs. Those who do not seek jobs are not unemployed.

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>>139091666
youre right UBI is great and dude weed and bernie 2020 lmao cough

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>>139089207
Further pacify all the undermensch to keep your rich head off a pike.

>>139089207
This
>>139089283
>>139090999
The reason they want a universal minimum wage is because it takes away more power from the people. The government and big businesses will get together to come up with the least amount they can give out with the least amount of rioting.
Look at welfare, whats the biggest problem with it? Other than it hurt blacks and made them not want to work, it basically made it impossible for them to get out of the hole. When you are dependent on the government it robs you of the ability to raise capital to further you or your groups interest.

>>139091749
*1000 dollars per adult - I used the wrong UBI promise initially

>>139089207
UBI is a capitalists wet dream, it will allow billionaires to make even more money. Leftists don't like it because they believe it is a human right/condition to work.

>>139091817
I'm not even in favor of UBI. I just think that some of the arguments ITT used against it are very dishonest.

>>139091749
...what kind of autism is this?

>>139091498
Pinochet was a kike puppet of the US

>>139091929
>...what kind of autism is this?
explain

all they'll ask in return is for the proles to give up what little power they have to regulate the antics of the power elite

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>>139089207
>Why is UBI so hated by the left and so embraced by the elites and billionaires? What do they know that we don't?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/ubi-finland-centre-party-unemployment-jobs/

>>139089968
you can still work under UBI you know. it's just that you don't have to

>>139092039
What if we archive it https://unvis.it/jacobinmag.com/2017/01/ubi-finland-centre-party-unemployment-jobs

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>>139091951
he still had a good method of dealing with socialists, so there's that

>>139091886
Your counter-argument is either intentionally obtuse for the sake of being a faggot or you're just a complete fucking shit brained retard. Faggot defeatists (LEAFS) instantly go uhuuhuhu you mean you want to just make money for your BOSS and CORPORATIONS maaaan??? No, shut the fuck up idiot. I want to be a productive member on a society and install myself on a ladder I would like to climb. It's something called a career and it begins with an opportunity called a JOB.

Kill yourself.

UBI isn't hated by the left, they are the ones that push it

>>139090904
how is it feudalism? billionaries pay us, not the other way round

The most convincing reason why UBI needs to be implemented is the following:

------
A commission of the German parliament discussed basic income in 2013 and concluded that it is "unrealizable" because:[67][68]
it would cause a significant decrease in the motivation to work among citizens, with unpredictable consequences for the national economy
it would require a complete restructuring of the taxation, social insurance and pension systems, which will cost a significant amount of money
the current system of social help in Germany is regarded more effective because it's more personalized: the amount of help provided is not fixed and depends on the financial situation of the person; for some socially vulnerable groups the basic income could be insufficient
it would cause a vast increase in immigration
it would cause a rise in the shadow economy
the corresponding rise of taxes would cause more inequality: higher taxes would translate into higher prices of everyday products, harming the finances of poor people
no viable way to finance basic income in Germany was found

>>139091963
Are those monthly UBI payments??? I saw your correction and even $1000??? $1000 a month???? Are you fucking retarded?

>>139092053
>you don't have to
You could still mandate that people work.
It would just mean that the capitalist's go-to "hurr durr just start your own business" response for wagecucking would actually be possible.

>>139089207
UBI is intended to replace modern social safety nets like welfare.

>>139089207
The billionaires are just interested in giving you paper money, or electronic credits, to consume the things they are producing. They want you to remain reliant on them for everything. Money is printed out of thin air, you should know that by now. The people who print it don't have any issues tossing some leftover toilet paper your way.

If you want to really help people who don't have much money, give them land, a house, off-grid energy, CNC machines, and equipment for aquaponic farming. Not a $30,000 check for Schlomo's SuperMarket and Hymey's Condominiums.

>>139092123
Of dealing with communists.
And yeah it was a good method, that's why it annoys me so much that it's been memed into the dirt by libertarian-capitalist fags.

Fascism is socialist

>>139092131
>No, shut the fuck up idiot. I want to be a productive member on a society and install myself on a ladder I would like to climb. It's something called a career and it begins with an opportunity called a JOB.
Ok, but you can still do just that even if you get UBI. The difference is that now you'll be richer and have more safety if you do lose your job.

>>139092209
>$1000 a month???? Are you fucking retarded?
It is enough to survive in rural America. Not in a city, but in rural America it would work.

We need a trend to shrink cities anyway, UBI could be a catalyst for people moving to rural areas again.

>>139092263
if anything, fascism is third position tho

>>139091120
>UBI is dependency

not if you don't sign up for it

>>139089207
libertarian faggots support UBI for the same reason media and telecoms temporarily spend in the red to acquire monopolies.

First it starts with incentives to replace all traditional means of welfare with one lump sum, then once the whole apparatus of social democracy is gutted, they can start cutting back on it.

The B in UBI will just get basicer and basicer until we're all app sharing driverless pods between tiny homes where we can trade packets of soylent between with one another

The dystopian cyberpunk hellscape isn't going to come from sinister Asian conglomerates. It will be brought to you by American-born autistic faggots

>>139092264
If you think that the government and it's corporate overlords aren't going to be working around the clock trying to get more and more people solely dependent on a UBI scheme then you're probably part of the reason Canada is falling apart.

>>139090999
>No they don't. They just squeeze more in.
Its population control for white people not for western countries. Immigrants will never stop flooding in

>>139091366
Socialist/communist hate it, socdems love it. So yes, actual leftist hate it.

Anyway, for anyone in here who doesn't know our perspective, it's because UBI is an neoliberal idea to remove welfare that's direct from government and replaces it with money, which opens up all the current government services to competition since now people can "choose" their service now that they have money. It's an attempt at commodifying welfare.

>>139092302
holy fuck you are actually retarded lmao I'm done

>>139089207
>Why is UBI so hated by the left
>implying

>>139089207
>(((Billionaires)))

>>139089207
Maybe they love it because it makes more people capable of being consumers while making it harder to create a business and be a competitor.

>>139089207

I'd be for it if they cut billions in all the other kinds of welfare.

>>139092232
>UBI is intended to replace modern social safety nets like welfare.

Yes, that is the point. What's your point.

An UBI system would work like this.

1. Every citizen registers with the state and receives a government bank account with the central government bank.

2. All cash is abolished. You are issued with a government bank account credit/debit card with a 500 dollar overdraft.

3. No illegal or foreigner receives UBI. All transactions are based on electronic transfers, making it impossible for an illegal to buy or sell anything ever again. All economic crime is stopped and all tax evasion can be discovered with algorithms.

4. You end up with a perfect society.

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>>139090522
>"why don't you want money"
I wonder who this could be

>>139092475
>all that shit
>perfect society
>flag
yep

>>139092475
You ignored my comment. UBI hurts peoples ability to build capital and make the gap between middle class and the 1% even bigger.

It'll make every basically niggers where they are all dependent on the state. Sure they can buy cool iphones but they don't have money to pursue causes for themselves or their groups.

>>139092136
Trust me, we hate it.

UBI is just "disrupting welfare." There is tons of leftist literature critical of it.

>>139092360
The third position to capitalism and communism
Don't fall for the marxist BS about socialism being an early stage of communism.
socialism (collective) contrasts liberalism (individual)

>>139089968
Still at the mercy of the banks and the real elite though. If they wanted they could unperson you and remove your little data numbers in your bank account.

>>139092389
If that was really what they wanted, they would just crank up unemployment welfare. Instead, it's something that, at least in Canada, gives very little money and doesn't last long. Why? Because they want people to stop being dependent on the government and go back to work. Your theories just don't fit with the reality of things.

>>139092443
>>Why is UBI so hated by the left
>>implying
Name one lefty who genuinely wants an actual UBI system. They all cry about "muhhh, only if UBI is in addition to the welfare payments right now" or "muhhh, social security and Medicaid and Medicare has to stay around too" - the beauty of UBI is that it is one regular payment and that is that. The government pays nothing else to no citizen anywhere. There are just taxes coming in... and UBI going out plus the gov pays its employees/soldiers/teachers/policemen. That is it.

If you accept the concept of an UBI, you cannot be a socialist or communist, because they hate simple systems, they want certain people to be "special" getting multiple welfare payments from a variety of sources.

>>139092464
That's actually the idea. It was conceived of by Milton Friedman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

>>139089207

It's all fucked anyway, may as well.

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>>139092475
>state registry
>government bank account from Big Government Bank
>no more cash, only credit issued by Big Government Bank
you're right vlad this DOES sound like a perfect society

>>139092528
Germany came closer than anyone to having a perfect society
Meanwhile your flag doesn't exist outside of internet memes

>>139092609
You know what's more simple than a massive currency redistribution scheme and other Voxdotcom wonk wank?

Public ownership of property and the abolition of class.

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>>139089283
I GAZED UPON YOUR EYES AND SAW THAT YOU WERE MY NIGGA

>>139089207
Branson doesn't even have enough money to buy everyone on the planet a cheeseburger, where does this money come from?

I'm surprised at this level of ignorance about wealth redistribution vs wealth creation from a billionaire.

>>139092232
>>139092475
>intended to
It never would though, it doesn't remove the incentive for politicians to give shit for votes and leeches to take, permanently

>>139092138
KYS

>>139092475
>All cash is abolished

I've seen this coming for quite some time, and there is a push to go completely cashless in Australia by 2022. This is what I fear the most, it will give the government total control of all money/currency/credits, it will completely eliminate most crime but it also infringes on freedom I guess..

>>139092606
>being this shortsighted
>being this naive
lol

>>139089207
He wishes talent to be chosen to be talent, and natural talent is owned because fuck you. piss off if you have a question.

>>139089207
>What do they know that we don't?
economics

>>139089207
Capitalism for the rich. Communism for the poor. I'm calling it.

>>139092560
>UBI hurts peoples ability to build capital and make the gap between middle class and the 1% even bigger.
Based on what development?

>>139092560
>It'll make every basically niggers where they are all dependent on the state.
Why would that be? The gov wouldn't tell you what to do. You just get your basic income, if you smoke it away or get a job and use it as vacation money or to buy a car is up to you.

If anything, people will be more independent from the state, as they can do what they want to do.

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>>139090999
Escape this gravity well. Do not let them rule our future.

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>>139089207
It's not hated by the "leftists", in fact, Branson is a "leftist" himself and your OP is pure propaganda to try and divert people from the Right to agree with your POV. It's not working.

>>139089207
UBI is a form of slavery
Makes you dependent on whoever is issuing the UBI, it gives them control over every aspect of your life. Do not fall for the ubi meme, it must be resisted at every opportunity

>>139092844
>If anything, people will be more independent from the state, as they can do what they want to do.
Germany this is a new level of doublespeak.

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>>139089968
this is what /pol/ always goes to

billionaires couldnt possibly be benevolent or benign

they HAVE to be conspiring with every action to constrict freedom and eventually subjugate everyone except 'the elite'

they couldnt POSSIBLY be attempting to improve living conditions

they couldnt POSSIBLY be attempting to improve education

no they just want to give you money to make you dependent and use it as leverage to control you


you miss the fact that the higher the education and wealth level of a community is the less population growth there is which is objectively BENEFICIAL

you miss the fact that UBI dissuades goverment from accepting refugees and immigration because its just another person to pay out to

frankly i dont think UBI is a good idea YET. But i think its heading in that direction and within 50 years most developed nations will have adopted or trialed the system

>>139092646
>Germany came closer than anyone to having a perfect society
When?

>>139092718
>where does this money come from?

Taxes and eliminating all other welfare services. Another option if automation is to take away jobs from workers is to tax each robot at the same rate that a human worker would be taxed.

>>139092769
Idk why we'd have to go cashless.
Every note is uniquely identifiable. Tie it to the digital registry.
People trying to spend it without it being registered to their account get locked up. You still have a physical guarantee of your own money.

>>139092769
>This is what I fear the most, it will give the government total control of all money/currency/credits, it will completely eliminate most crime but it also infringes on freedom I guess..

On what freedoms? On your freedoms to evade taxes and commit crimes? Why do you support the mafia and people smugglers and child rapists again?

Holy fucking shit this website is not for normal people

>>139092855
>billionaire philanthropist
>leftist
neck yourself.

UBI is a cover for the privatisation of all social services. Instead of health care you "receive" money that the government will spend on health insurance for you.

>>139091575
>>won't be motivated to find a job at all

Why exactly do you think this?

And let's assume there is some non trivial percentage of the population which decides that UBI is enough to live their NEET life (let's say 15%), why would this then not clear the way for people who do want something more than a bottom of the barrel NEET existence?

>>139089207
How isn't it communism?

>economy becoming more and more knowledge-based
>elites and billionaires, being the most competitive humans know this
>most people are too stupid to be valuable in this economy
>having a bunch of angry drugged up dunces that are prone to revolt are bad for business
>UBI will take away their ammo
there you go

>>139092939
I'm not committing crime but it just seems so dystopian and creepy with that much control.

>>139092855
>Branson is a "leftist"
Branson is a hardcore "Elon Musk" style conservative capitalist. Just as Marc Zuckerberg is.

They are as leftist as Adolf Hitler.

>>139089207
When you have an exact baseline economy for every working-age citizen you no longer have to guess your pricing model nor your competitor's.
Big companies then can wage a war of attrition against little ones, crushing them entirely.
A UBI, essentially a worse Minimum Wage, will lead to the equivalent of "rent fixing" for the entire consumer market.

UBI without infinite resources to back up infinite debt not backed by labor creates the world of Judge Dredd.

>>139092955
>pretending to know about US politics
neck yourself.

>>139089207
Nurture dependency on the government. If you rely on assistance from somebody for years else and have no way of surviving without it what else are you but their slave? If the government says jump, you only ask how high or risk losing your livelihood. There are certain restrictions what you can jail somebody for but none for what reason you can cut somebody's benefits.
Even better: What has been one of the big arguments for immigration in places like Germany? We need these people because our population is shrinking and we need somebody to pay for our rent. How much more pull is that argument going to have if we are not just talking about pensions but a majority of the population...
Also this is probably going to happen along with abolishing cash so that they can perfectly monitor what you spend your money for.
You create an entire class of people that are superfluous and really have no purpose to exist. Most likely bored young men waiting for somebody to give their pathetic weed-smoking, game-playing, partying excuse for an existence some semblance of purpose, something that makes thinking about tomorrow worthwhile.

>>139092598
though going full collectivist makes you no better than chink insect
third position has to take that into account as well

>>139092909
>Germany this is a new level of doublespeak.
What is doublespeak about the fact that if you get 1000 dollars a month, no strings attached, you can do what you want with it and thus have more freedom from the gov?

>>139092956
But don't you want to shop around for radiology clinics? You're an empowered consumer!

>>139092956
It's not just that, it's direct corporate welfare as well. You know how Walmart employees are about 30% dependent on the government, despite living on what is theoretically the "minimum" wage necessary for independent living? Just imagine that now taxpayers pay 100% of the wages of Walmart greeters. UBI is a massive fucking meme promoted by CEOs in bed with the government because they want to continue fucking the middle class.

>>139092957
It will create more people like that

You think welfare has created more or less single mothers to clear the ~40k hurdle?

Those that would otherwise be productive toward society are no longer, literally the same problem as welfare

>>139093075
1.) I'm American
2.) Branson isn't
3.) You're retarded

>leftism is like, uhhh... charity and stuff
t. faggot (you)

>>139092940
If you are working UBI will be tied to additional progressive taxes. If you are unemployed you will receive enough money to scrape by in a slum. Everything that was a service will be privatised.

It's not necessarily a bright future. It might be just a reorganisation of social services where everyone gets less and the government shirks all responsibility becoming nothing but a tax collector and a military. Your health care sucks? Garbage Pilling up in the street? The police are ignoring their jobs and killing? Nothing to do with the state. Change provider.

>>139093078
>>139093081
escape
>>139092851

>>139092919
>w-what if they're good?

Look at fucking everything that has happened in the past 50 years and then say, with a straight face, that the global elite are our benefactors.

They are very clearly out to make life hell for us. Don't delude yourself otherwise lest you speed the boot on it's journey towards your (and our) faces.

>>139092955
>pretending to know about US politics
Neck yourself. You're a dumbass for assuming any billionaire is automatically leaning right. How does your little mental midget brain explain Tesla exactly? Bill Gates? Yeah, you can go fuck yourself peabrain.

>>139093039
Adolph Hitler is leftist under any left eight paradigm that is internally consistent

>>139093023
>I'm not committing crime but it just seems so dystopian and creepy with that much control.

Are you saying that the government can't look into finances of people currently? Do you have only cash or do you have a bank account? Once you have a bank account, all you do is transparent. Do you pay large sums with cash or credit/debit card? Do you buy things online?

The only thing that changes with a UBI system and a cashless society is that economic criminals, illegals and jihadists will have to stop what they are doing.

>>139092709
How do mouthbreathers like you even exist? It truly boggles the mind.

Imagine a system of bribes where giant corporations give people free money in exchange for not having a bloody revolution where all the ceos are killed in the street, but with the caveat that the money's purchasing power will slowly be reduced until a large population is dependent and financially powerless. Combine that with an education system that starts being quietly biased in favor of capital-holder's children. Then combine that with China's one child policy.

>>139093106
I realise this. It's a subsidy to minimum wage. UBI will not be enough to avoid suicidal depression due to horrible living conditions. You will still be working full time.

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>>139093039
>Zuckerberg
>conservative
Fucking hell, do you even know where you are right now you mentally deranged nigger?

>>139089207
>why do the elites want a completely dependent, low IQ, homogeneous, pacified, brown population
Gee I don't know

>>139093192
Musk is vehemently opposed to organized labor and Gates has been a huge pusher for privatization of education.

>Anybody who donates food to starving niggers is a leftist
Sad.

>>139093170
>If you are working UBI will be tied to additional progressive taxes.
Not according to the UBI proposal. The UBI is outside of anything. It is not in your income tax calculations, it is not taxed, it is just a payment from the gov to you every week. That is it.

>>139091749
>Those who do not seek jobs are not unemployed.
nah, they are still unemployed.

The worker never rises up against the bourgeoisie to cease the means of production.

Actual commies know if you don't work you don't eat and welfare kills a community like nothing else. compare at blacks in america and ones in Canada or the UK or Indians who took welfare to ones who didn't.

>>139093129
>You think welfare has created more or less single mothers to clear the ~40k hurdle?

Perhaps we could look at data or case studies for this argument you are making that welfare has a significant causal relationship with creating more welfare queens.

>Those that would otherwise be productive toward society are no longer

What exactly is productive about working a repetitive minimum wage job which could be easily automated?

Let's not pretend this is a position based on objective policy outcomes, it's just a modern version of Puritan work ethic.

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>>139092925
When do you think?
They managed to unshackle their society from the cabal, and had a system that actually worked well, with promise for improvement.
All they had to do was win the war

>>139093325
You're saying UBI is independent of tax revenue? Where does the money come from then?

>>139092939
Yes you fucking worthless kraut bitch, my freedom to "evade taxes" and not allow the government to control my personal money.

>wannabe dictators want the populace to rely more on the state and less on their own
imagine mah shawk

>>139093002
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
Learn something

>>139093300
You're completely out of your element bro.
Don't wander beyond /ptg/ if all you want to do is exchange talk radio buzzwords with other retards.

>>139092475
>3. No illegal or foreigner receives UBI. All transactions are based on electronic transfers, making it impossible for an illegal to buy or sell anything ever again. All economic crime is stopped and all tax evasion can be discovered with algorithms.

They have already let enough in and given them citizenship.
The capitalist better fix that.

UBI is literally the roman bread dole.

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>>139093202
>Adolph Hitler
Who is Adolph Hitler? Why do Americans like the ph so much, even though it pretty much doesn't exist in Germany?

>>139091863
You got it right, also most from what it is paid for comes from the middle class, including the top middle class - which is the class that would replace the rich fags.

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>>139093399
>my personal money
>that the government prints for me and assigns value

>>139089207
they know how to make money

>>139089207
Unlimited free energy is coming. With its advent, along with the disclosure of other secret advanced technologies and the existence of extraterrestrial life, old industrial jobs will cease to exist. There will be mass unemployment when free energy comes. In order to offset this, UBI must be implemented in order to keep the economy afloat. That's the only reason why I can explain this push for UBI.

UBI would require very strict migration controls...

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>>139093172
break the chain forever. once the first is built and secured, they cannot stop us.

>>139093520
yes, fiat currency is indeed a meme

>>139093300
>Fucking hell, do you even know where you are right now you mentally deranged nigger?

The biggest redpill is to understand what ideology the super-rich and other elites adhere to.

No, it isn't faggoshy leftism - there is a reason why Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Elon Musk etc. are rich and it isn't your Hillary Clinton advocated leftism. There is a reason, these people all pay less than 10% of their income in taxes.

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>>139089207
Wait, the left refusing free shit? how is this possible?

Reminder that if you took all welfare-type programs and converted them to a UBI, you'd end up with only $7600 per year per person. Not that I have an issue with that, I'd like to see it at $0, but the nogs and old people will feel differently.
>>139093375
>Nazi Germany was so kewl, therefore a modern day German cuck is always right

>>139093362
If you cant work anything except a very basic job, well too bad. Learn some skills that will allow you to get a better job. Nobody deserves a living wage just because they exist.

What's the matter goy, don't want free* money?

terms and conditions apply, sign here

>>139092475
Literally the mark of the beast kill yourself for promoting such genocidal ideas

>>139092475
Keep dreaming, Angela...

>>139093325
Yeah and to fund it progressive taxation will be increased. In the best possible version of UBI that I have heard of, the only real outcome is the privatisation of social services. What was the responsibility of the state and was once free becomes something you pay for with UBI. like health care and housing for the needy. It was free but in the future with your "free" money you are now spending it on things your absolutely need and used to be free.

The government will hopefully make savings on the administration of social welfare by not needing to determine who gets it. That's the point of it. Not to hand out free money. It's just a different way of spending money.

>>139092919
Even if a billionaire is benevolent, setting up a system that leads to the possibility that a billionaire could monopolise the whole of humanity means that eventually it will happen. And for that reason we shouldn't do it.

>>139093629
>Hey kid, that's some nice healthcare you got there, wanna trade it for Disney Dollars
>What do you mean know, they're GUARANTEED
>Can't believe leftists are refusing free shit!

>>139093395
>Where does the money come from then?
It is printed, thus adding to inflation. That is the whole point. The UBI is a way to both make the population more independent and to expand the money supply and get the economy on a more dynamic footing with inflation in the 5-7% range per year like it was back in the days when the great inventions and investments were made. You need large inflation to lower the gap between the rich and the poor and make "sitting on your wealth" a losing proposition.

>>139089207
grown ups can provide for themselves.

>>139093634
>couldn't refute
Didn't say they're always right. Was just shutting down your flag insult retardation.

Intellectual dishonesty should be punishable by death.

>>139091749
Listen you can ruin europe all you want but if you do something and the liberals want UBI here, just remember our nuclear program was aimed at you.

>>139089207
UBI subsidizes salaries for faggots like this. You were making 40k per year? Now you're only making 28k + UBI. On top of that your being taxed more to pay for everyone else's UBI who don't work.

>>139089467
How are they different than any other politician?

>>139092925
1930s

>>139093520
Idiot, obviously in this case the government would be giving it to me, thats the fucking point, I would be solely dependent on the govt.

>>139093654
>If you cant work anything except a very basic job, well too bad.
> Learn some skills that will allow you to get a better job.

So what is your answer if there literally are not enough jobs to go around?

>Nobody deserves a living wage just because they exist.

It's not about deserve, which is simply the repackaging of a religious view of work that you've internalized.

It's about the best policy outcomes not only for the citizenry but for the state. As the labor pool increase but the amount of skilled labor jobs decreases or remains stagnant the state risks an inflated under class. A UBI allows the citizenry more flexibility between times of employment or income to assist in pursuing skill training and/or education.

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>>139093399
>my freedom to "evade taxes" and not allow the government to control my personal money.
What does it say on the top of the dollar, mate. Look it up. It isn't our "personal" money. Someone owns that money and it certainly isn't you.

>>139093585
>unlimited free energy
Sounds too good to be true.

>>139089283
That's a bad thing?

>>139092475
Don't forget to implant everyone with a chip in their brain that the state can terminate if you are a bad goy.

>>139093314
You should really fucking educate yourself on our politics in the US before you try to spout of like you know shit about shit. You're just making yourself look foolish.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregoryferenstein/2016/02/26/a-lot-of-billionaires-are-giving-to-democrats-heres-a-data-driven-look-at-their-agenda

>>139093432
>you're completely out of your element bro
great rebuttal. really.
Tell me why zuck's silencing literally any conservative viewpoint on fb if he's such a conservative himself? He's obviously pro-sjw and you're obviously sorely misinformed.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/01/04/why_mark_zuckerberg_is_suddenly_acting_like_a_politician.html

I know it's your first week but you're on /pol/ so start acting like you have half a brain cell.

>>139093809
>The government giving me free money means they're controlling me and I'm dependent on them
How does it feel to be both a retard and a nigger?

>>139093362
Prior to automation it exactly is leading to a better economic outcome dispite your faggy opinion
>what is productive about minimum wage
I would argue that without government intervention, more frivolous and less strenuous forms of work would be economically plausible

As the amount of disposable income increases, so too will the opportunities to earn income off of dumb shit, as well as charitable giving. The price of goods should be inverse to the amount of wealth in society, absent government controls

But things like taxation and regulation bar anything like that.

>>139089207
how long would it take lefties to start crying about rich people getting UBI and demanding they get less while they need more?

>>139093477
Underrated. Angry crowds screaming "Bread and Games!" reminds one of BLM...

>>139093727
>inflation in the 5-7% range per year like it was back in the days when the great inventions and investments were made
Citation needed
>You need large inflation to lower the gap between the rich and the poor and make "sitting on your wealth" a losing proposition.
Wealth automatically dissipates due to exponential population growth. With a handful of exceptions, e.g. the Waltons, most magnates' grandchildren are mere single-digit millionaires.
>>139093750
Fine, I'll refute his retarded bullshit
>1. Every citizen registers with the state and receives a government bank account with the central government bank.
Woo, can't wait for the government to have even more direct control over my finances!
>2. All cash is abolished. You are issued with a government bank account credit/debit card with a 500 dollar overdraft.
Show me a single case of a modern cashless society that functions well
>3. No illegal or foreigner receives UBI. All transactions are based on electronic transfers, making it impossible for an illegal to buy or sell anything ever again. All economic crime is stopped and all tax evasion can be discovered with algorithms.
This is dependent on immigration law and has nothing to do with UBI. Anchor babies disprove the viability of this in the USA, and European cuckoldry wrt refugees makes it unlikely that this standard will be held.
>4. You end up with a perfect society.
Nope.

>>139093478
Who fucking cares, adolph

Id be fine with UBI in AUS if we at least had freedom to own weapons and at least America levels of free speech.

>>139091863
>robs you of the ability to raise capital
this

If no one has a job and people have barely enough money to subsist on, won't capitalists have no need to mass produce TVs and cars and cloths for the masses? There will be no profit there.

They will have to switch to making a smaller amount of insanely high end goods for the tiny remaining fraction of humanity that owns resources. Like helicopters and true VR and killer robots to slaughter the starving masses.

>>139093877
>a dixie who's too lazy to look after his own government
This is my shocked face

>>139089207
It protects their interests. their interests being fiat currency holding value. It also breeds a shitload of garbage low end citizens that also need money. So they can print the shit till the end of time

>>139093608
>The biggest redpill is to understand what ideology the super-rich and other elites adhere to.
It's not rocket science.
>Borders are stopping me from mass-producing my products in India for a bowl of rice per employee each day, and then shipping them back to the Western world without paying insane tariffs.
>I'm gonna get rid of borders.
>Hey goyim, we need to get rid of borders. Borders are against fundamental human rights. I care about each and every one of you. Let's get rid of borders.
>Globalism, yay.
>Human rights, yay!
>We care about each and every one of you.

>>139093817
There will always be enough jobs to go around, they will just become different jobs. And if we really will end up in a world where people just exist en masse and 99% of everything is automated, then I say we have reached dystopia and the only cure would be mass extinction events to drastically reduce the human population. There is simply no point in having so much utterly useless and functionless biomass that simply exists for the sake of existing. You are correct that this underclass would grow to huge dimensions. I ask only this: "Why keep the underclass around"?

Do you know how cheap cost of living would be with unlimited free energy? Homes would be virtually free. Mining anything from the ground would cost virtually nothing. You would need pocket change to live on each year. With free market competition, if it costs you zero to manufacture something, companies would charge a penny. This whole "WE NEED GUARANTEED INCOME BECAUSE OF FREE ENERGY" is the biggest commie con job in history.

>>139089207
the idea with UBI if it is to be effective is that we eliminate all other forms of welfare and thus get rid of all overhead, commies don't like this because it puts responsibility back in the hands of the people: if you can't pay for your healthcare because you spent your UBI on weed you're out of luck, my nigger

>>139094064
When they go right we go left
#calexit

>>139094039
UBI would probably lower the cost of a lot of things since it would reduce the purchasing power of the average pleb whose been muscled out of their job by a robot.

>>139093817
>if there are literally not enough jobs
If automation kills jobs, the purchasing power of those goods should be even cheaper

Without intervention it's plausible that handing a bum the equivalent of a dollar will feed them for weeks

>>139089207

At some point it's going to become necessary because at some point, everything aside from high level, extremely specialized positions will be automated.

>>139093955
>Prior to automation

That's nice, it's too bad we are talking about present and future policy considerations and not historical.

Are you going to want to talk about late middle ages agriculture policy next?

>As the amount of disposable income increases

Why do you assume disposable income would increase absent all taxation and regulation?

>>139093820
Wow what a revelation. So lets give govt even MORE control then, that sounds like a great idea.

>>139091863
Not every pleb and nigger was meant for work in the modern futuristic era. Previously they would of all been enslaved and used as manual labour but we can do that with robots now. Need a way to keep all the apes content and not rioting in the streets. You want to ever live i na true, libertarian wild west tier society again? You better take the first flight to mars because the Earth got a lot smaller with technology.

>>139092606
> Because they want people to stop being dependent on the government and go back to work
And the best way to do that is give them more taxpayer money you massive fucking retard stop making us look like retards

>>139094104
This. That's why I can't wait for the true automation and energy revolution, it will bring back the agrarian ideal of the 1800s, independent men able to produce all their basic needs just from home.

>>139092302
Yeah if you eat nothing but rice and beans you dirty spic

>>139093912
>Democrats are leftists
>Corporate diversity is left wing
>"""SJWs"""

Yeah nah cunt.
If that's your idea of left-wing then I don't think I can help you. You're huffing a whole lot of ideological jenkem there.
Read Marx. He's dead and his books are free. If that's too hard read Wikipedia. You don't have to agree; it's just to help you figure out what leftism actually is.
If you're just going to keep posting with the awareness of a cranky uncle perpetually trapped in 2003 then I'm going to write you off as another escaped T_D brainlet and be on my way.

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>>139089207

That the rope is coming

>>139094142
Yeah and why make anything for them? Ghetto niggers can't afford supercars. That didn't bring down the price of super cars.

>>139094101
>there will always be jobs
Nice meme

>>139093933
>"free" money
Fucking subhuman brainlet. Nothing is free. The govt will give you "free money" and in return you will be its bitch.

>>139094247
Well if you have robots making everything and you don't have to pay them the cost of products would drop drastically.

>>139094000
>Woo, can't wait for the government to have even more direct control over my finances!
t. lazy coward
>Show me a single case of a modern cashless society that functions well
Show me a single case of a stateless society that functions well, Ancap.
>Anchor babies disprove the viability of this in the USA
Current policies don't disprove shit. It's a proposition, meaning it's theoretical, retard.
Who's going to change the entire economy, and JUST the economy, and expect it to work?

By the way, I meant that you couldn't refute my point about Germany having been closest to a perfect society.
>Nope.
Looks like that's still the case

>>139094142
>prices march incomes
Literally retarded. The actual outcome would be prices rising relative to income, and certain products not being produced at all

If prices go down, it would be solely because automation is more efficient in net than the massive loss from uni influences coupled with unparalleled taxation. And that's freezing it at the beginning, before perverse political incentives kick in

>>139089207
I'd love to see even one of these rich assholes redistribute their wealth before proposing the government take what little I have.

>>139094224
>yeah nah cunt
not even going to be bothered with the rest of your zipperhead drivel because you clearly know nothing about US politics. When a guy gives millions to the campaign of a democratic candidate and you still try to call him conservative, for whatever reason, that makes you an absolute uninformed dumbass.

I could see Republicans begrudgingly open to UBI, if the dems agreed to extreme immigration measures.

>>139092709
>Public ownership of property and the abolition of class.
leave your house and hand the keys over to the first person you see. otherwise you are full of shit.

>>139094101
>There will always be enough jobs to go around,

If we make a conscious policy decision to prevent all automation.

>they will just become different jobs.

This doesn't fit reality. Retraining programs don't/won't have 100% coverage and you're assuming that you would need as many employees to maintain, for example, an automated assembly line as you needed to man the previous un-automated line.

>And if we really will end up in a world where people just exist en masse and 99% of everything is automated, then I say we have reached dystopia

Or we make conscious policy decisions to incentive other skilled labor that can't be (cheaply or efficiently if at all) automated.

>>139094258
Nice job ignoring the rest of my post.

>>139094156
>it's plausible

Based on what?

>>139094314
Robots won't make goods for people that don't have any money. UBI won't be enough for luxury items like Internet and a games console. It will cover rent and food. If you want Internet and a games console you will need to become an artist or content creator or a begger.

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>>139094266
You are already its bitch, so what does it matter?
>Nothing is free
Are we really going to go down the whole list of retarded one-liner libertarian talking points?
I think you forgot to say taxation is theft somewhere previously.

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They want us to be calm, placid and not question what they do

Panem et circenses
Vs
Sic semper tyrannis

>>139092926
how do you tax a robot if robots aren't paid?

>>139089207
Socialists and communists actually want this though, wtf are you smoking?

UBI is not a good idea because it does not call into question what the value of the income will be. So lets say you get free money, are you sure that gallon of milk or that loaf of bread will be $2 or will it be $20? Depending on how many people adopt this, you may run into an issue where too many people have opted out of working jobs that would transport goods like food and water to stores and so with a scarce product and a high demand for it, it would constantly rate hike the items in question. billionaires love this idea because it will help them become more rich since they own enough stocks/stores that produce foods.

>>139094400
I don't own my house though. My landlord does. That's the problem bro.

>>139094490
How does being handed more economic independence make you calm and placid?

>>139094339
>t. lazy coward
How does wanting to handle my own finances make me lazy?
>Show me a single case of a stateless society that functions well, Ancap.
I'm more libertarian than ancap, but economic freedom is one of the greatest indicators of a healthy society
>Current policies don't disprove shit. It's a proposition, meaning it's theoretical, retard.
>Who's going to change the entire economy, and JUST the economy, and expect it to work?
Nice theoretical then, retard. Your only defense is that you don't need to defend a theory? Pathetic.
>By the way, I meant that you couldn't refute my point about Germany having been closest to a perfect society.
Nazi Germany was a shitty short-lived meme of a nation that accomplished some temporary good but was infeasible long-term. They scared most of their intellectuals away and relied on a centrally-planned bureaucratic nightmare to expand indefinitely in search of new land to plunder.

>>139093082

Would you push away the hand that feed you? And with that said, if you do not push it away, doesn't it implies that it has a certain influence over you? That like feeding a starving villager with just enough bread for him to survive the week then acting surprised you see him begging for some more the next week.

Anyone with half a brain will realize it will create an unethical authority of the government over the recipient for such type of welfare as they become comfortable with the idea of some kind of higher authority taking care of them and thus, less open to dissent or oppose action that would normally be considered infringements on their most basic civil rights due to that previously mentioned blind trust into the higher authority to provide for them, somehow.

>>139093162
>>139093097
>>139092955
>>139092709
>>139092589
>>139092376

And you're just a shitposting faggot who salty nobody answered to his first shitpost, so you're trying to stir up a ruckus. Here a (you), you goddamned attention whore.

>>139089207

International billionaires are all for UBI because it create the base for the need of some kind of international influence kind of thing as to control and ''properly'' value the working hour of whoever they want to impose this bollocks onto, which of course they'll define the term and limits of as they see fit and profitable. with that said billionaires aren't necessarily intelligent peoples, they are mostly charismatic fellows carried by the peoples they invested into (more often than not with investor money rather than their own) and rarely have genuine wisdom of their own, thus they couldn't possibly apply or even manage such a thing properly as they would treat it like a all-you-can-grab buffet.

>>139094515
No we don't.

>>139094502
You tax the profits of the owner of the robot.

>>139094515
>you may run into an issue where too many people have opted out of working jobs that would
You don't run into that issue if you don't let them opt out.

>>139092939
how about it is none of governments business to know what books I read or what my legal hobbies are?

>>139094165
>too bad were not talking about historical
You dense fucking retard, I'm obviously referring to automation that replaces the average person

>why do you assume disposable income would increase
Because everything from top to bottom would be cheaper, and a massive amount of investment to spurn efficiency would be freed up.

Actually judging by the flag, I'd guess you're the type that believes fat pigs at the top sit on their gold like dragons. If that's the case, don't bother replying

>>139094224
>conflates corporations and right wing together
Typical retard leftist, where left and right makes literally no internal sense whatsoever

>>139094476
There are varying degrees of subjugation, try to use your peabrain, faggot. You can be kind of its bitch or an utter fucking slave. Your argument is "so what if the govt owns you entirely, it already owned you partially!"

>>139094341
Prices do match incomes, at least to a major extent. No one is going to sell a product at a price point that their market can't afford. Among the more obvious examples of this are health insurance and college loans; by increasing "income" for those receiving such benefits, pharma corps and universities are able to raise their prices to match the amount of money available.

>>139094524

>Be a faggot leftist who whine against authority
>Doesn't even own the place he live in

Fucking faggots like you will get a healthy dose of reality when you'll get stuck with a roommate who just as much of a faggot as you and only then will you realize how much of a prick you are. Fucking bitch who spit in the hand that feed him and offer him a roof, you merit only to suffer at the end of tenants as horrible as you are.

>>139094452
Based on the fact that everything has gotten cheaper as more automation has made things more efficient you intellectually lazy faggot

>>139094587
>Because everything from top to bottom would be cheaper

Why do you assume this?

>and a massive amount of investment to spurn efficiency would be freed up.

Even though historically low marginal tax rates have not done so?

>I'd guess you're the type that believes fat pigs at the top sit on their gold like dragons.

Lol nice straw man.

>If that's the case, don't bother replying

If you can't actually make your case beyond regurgitating talking points you've heard someone more educated make don't try to pull a bullshit cop out like this and just own it. This is anonymous, making a stupid argument isn't going to follow you around after this thread.

>>139094673
Left-wing = anticaptialist
Right-wing = capitalist

Literally the only distinction that matters. Race, gender, motherfucking video games = window dressing and brainlet bait

>>139090273
that's what you already are.

>>139094524
Its not a problem, why the fuck are you randomly entitled to that property as much as he is? Why would you be entitled to a house someone else built by themselves?

>>139094525
>relying on government gibs
>economic independence

>>139094769
>ased on the fact that everything has gotten cheaper

Maybe you should start here http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/basics/inflat.htm

>>139094525
Glass beads stop you braiding the rope

>>139094681
>No one is going to sell a product at a price point no one can afford

With UBI this won't mean cheaper TVs. It will mean no TVs. The value of a dollar won't inflate. The ultra rich will have infinite dollars and your few dollars won't be enough to pay for the materials required to make a TV, let alone the time of the robot and the electricity to power it.

>>139094342
their money will be overseas when time comes

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this basic income bases n 2 different morals and understandings what it means.

- swiss shit: people can get freedom o education, social activities, health and old farts care without to be bound on specific state running system, which turned out to be way to expensive and extreme not efficient mones waste. people will also get new way to create own business without to be the debt cow to the banks or local crime lords. shit is financed by direct taxes and local goverments.

>eternal anglo version: let the goverment go into debt and pay the filth (chavs, niggers, trailerparkies, rednecks and so on). take their little shitmoney by rising prices, make them dependent on basic survival kits, create fucking bread and games culture. create clear borders between people who work and who cant. whole economy is based on steling recources and wealth from other countries. colonizise and go into eugeninc population control.

>>139089207
Have these people not heard about welfare?
I mean, welfare already causes enough problems, considering people who don't have to work don't have to work, particularly in Europe. There are still some hoops you have to jump through, but if you geuninely don't want to work, you don't have to.

Universal basic income would just exacerbate this problem as people wouldn't even have to pretend to be sick or unemployable, and it would make the immigration problem ten times worse. I mean, what brown asshole in a dirt poor country doesn't want to live in a country where they get free money with no questions asked?

The capitalist who have opened the borders should get the rope. The American people deserve justice. Does anyone ever think about how much of our wealth they have given to their imported shitskin voting blocks?

>>139094538
How does the government giving you money mean you aren't handling your own finances?
What makes you lazy is you not wanting to get off your fat ass and look after your government.

>I'm more libertarian than ancap
Then use gadsden instead of that retarded meme flag.
>economic freedom is one of the greatest indicators of a healthy society
The maximum amount of economic freedom you can achieve is within barbarism, and the complete lack of civilization.
But in any case, UBI increases economic freedom by making your one-liner response "hurr just learn a new skill" actually possible on a larger-scale.

>Nice theoretical then, retard
Holy fucking shit, how low is your IQ? The entire thread is about a theoretical- adopting UBI in our economy.
>Your only defense is that you don't need to defend a theory
No, you just have the literacy of a sub-saharan African

>Nazi Germany was a shitty short-lived meme of a nation that accomplished some temporary good but was infeasible long-term. They scared most of their intellectuals away and relied on a centrally-planned bureaucratic nightmare to expand indefinitely in search of new land to plunder.
Waiting for an argument

>>139094678
You are already its utter fucking slave. They own you entirely. "Taxation is theft" is a logical fallacy, because the government can't steal what already belongs to them.

>>139094739
Sounds like you're dredging up some personal history here. Wanna talk about it?

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>>139090522
It makes me feel good and a little accomplished to earn that money, I'm repulsed by the thought of dependency or recieving any sort of handout, in essence, "I'm white"

>>139094814
I'm not taking NEETbux tho

>>139094819
>Its not a problem

I think his point is that he can't afford to own his own home, not that he can't just take the house from his landlord.

>>139093849
this. people here need to stop thinking about what would be nice and start thinking about what would be plausible for the future. its clear now nobody has the guts to do whats necessary actually oppose the way things are going right now and might as well get on the globalist elite side and just manage the damage instead of wasting everybodies time

>>139093849
try living off benefits in a socialist country.

You're quite literally a slave to the state

>>139094163
>everything aside from high level, extremely specialized positions will be automated.
like cleaning toilets?

>>139094819
Entitled is a spooky word.
It's just that rent-seeking is about as close as you can get to the textbook definition of leeching. It has no productive value from any economic analysis.
So I don't think I have a right to anything more than I think he has a right to anything. I just think that we as a society should make men like him go away. There are more of us than him.

>>139094895
Swiss want to hide on their mountain anglos want to enslave the planet and charge interest. You see the difference?

>>139094822
>UBI
>reliance on government gibs
>>139094853
Explain how UBI stops you braiding the rope as opposed to making it easier

>>139095000
>Cleaning toilets
What toilets? No humans in the factory.

>>139089207

What? I thought UBI was a leftist thing. Have I been wrong the entire time? Isn't UBI just welfare for fucking everyone? What's even the purpose of it? You get some free money, but the price of everything should go up right, so it's basically a useless thing to do. You would also get taxed more to fund all the UBI.

>>139094934
>welfare already causes enough problems, considering people who don't have to work don't have to work
Why are you blaming that on welfare instead of weak government and "liberty"?

>>139094937
We think about it, but it has nothing to do with capitalism and you dumbshit faggot commie larpers aren't going to gain a foothold here no matter how hard you try. Communism has, by and far, a better track record for bribery, extortion, and corruption than capitalism ever will. You know that, I know that and your bullshit doesn't fly here.

>>139094942
How the fuck does the govt already own taxes? Are you fucking retarded? Taxes are just what the govt takes from the citizens earnings that they made through their own labor. Taxation is me selling you something I made and having some unrelated third party come in and demand a cut of my profit under threat of imprisonment.

>>139094942
>How does the government giving you money mean you aren't handling your own finances?
>What makes you lazy is you not wanting to get off your fat ass and look after your government.
thanks JFK
>The maximum amount of economic freedom you can achieve is within barbarism, and the complete lack of civilization.
>But in any case, UBI increases economic freedom by making your one-liner response "hurr just learn a new skill" actually possible on a larger-scale.
Barbarism infringes on property rights, so no.
Everyone already has the freedom to learn a new skill. Most don't because most are unambitious.
>Waiting for an argument
That was an argument. I made a point which I defended with several facts.
>You are already its utter fucking slave. They own you entirely. "Taxation is theft" is a logical fallacy, because the government can't steal what already belongs to them.
All work belongs to the government, yes goyim, listen to me

>>139094934
we should only grant it to citizens, of course, but I know (((someone))) will still push for immigration and extension of UBI to non-citizens
this issue must be dealt with beforehand

>>139094101
>"Why keep the underclass around"?
basically, power is relative. there are better ways to increase absolute production and advancement but no better way to lord over as many people as possible. the underclass is the goal, not the side effect though it would be better for us if they would just kill us.

>>139094681
The second part of the point was more important.

What is observed is prices matching incomes. What is not observed is the counterfactual, where people have more purchasing power and more products can be created to sell to that power

Let's say a car typically costs 10% of your income on average. What is observed is cars always costing that much throughout the years. What is not observed is the amount of that 10% being more powerful, either from the product or consumer end, and the car vastly improving over time.

My point using this analogy is that ubi would do nothing to the fact that a car costs 10%, because the market will shift, but what you get will be stagnant, or at least more stagnant than the counterfactual, because the income increase is a short term spurn and a long term facade

Ubi is a death spiral

>>139095181
>Taxation is me selling you something I made and having some unrelated third party come in and demand a cut of my profit under threat of imprisonment.

That's not actually at all what taxation is.

>>139095181
Because they print the fucking money that you "earn", braindead underage faggot
YOU rent that money under the contract that the govt will repossess a specific portion of it at later points

>>139094524
>I don't own my house though. My landlord does. That's the problem bro.
didn't seem to be a problem for your landlord.. why don't you own a house? Oh.. you rent. Does your landlord rent his house or does he own it? Renting is fucking retarded. Do you rent your computer too?

>>139094801
>why do you assume a lack of regulation would make things cheaper
Not replying to somebody so dishonest, won't bother with your posts anymore

Get a trip so I can filter you

>>139089207
How are they going to stop me from saving up my money and growing my own food and collecting my own water etc?

And then saving the money to manufacture my own products?

>>139095069
If I own a big ass house, and I dont want to live in it, but you do, then I ask you for payment while you use it. What is the fucking problem here? It is a service, you get a roof over your head as long as you pay.

>>139089207

who is going to pay for UBI?

isn't UBI just socialism for gibmes?

>>139089207
Because they stand to benefit the most obviously UBI just makes for higher barrier of entry to the billion $$ club, due to higher taxes and dwindling employment options

>>139094565
>You tax the profits of the owner of the robot.
then he moves his production plant to China

>>139091749
don't quit your day job as someone who does nothing important

>>139089283
Yeup, UBI will be dependent on certain criteria. If you have children, no UBI. If you drive a combustion engine vehicle, no UBI for you. If you oppose immigration, no UBI for you. If you don't take every vaccine they want you to, no UBI for you. It is a way to give everyone something to lose if they don't follow lock step in the NWO agenda, while simulatneously making everyone who DOESN'T follow agenda 21 a permanent working peasant underclass having to work to serve people with UBI who don't need to work. Literal slavery, except based on Ideology instead of your race.

>>139095150
How many fucking hoops do you jump through to convince yourself that welfare is anything but the product of government, and is the exact opposite of "weak" govt?

>>139094934
welfare is shitty and inefficient.

so much of what is spent on welfare is spent on paying an army of federal and state employees to staff offices, file paperwork, check eligibility, recertify people every year. Money is wasted on offices, on cars to drive homeless and invalids to and from the office and gas and security for the nig-filled offices.

if you cut out all that shit, and just cut a check to everyone for 1/330,000,000 of the yearly budget you give each individual more money.

>>139095311
>A bloo bloo I can't actually make my argument! Why are you asking me to commit to anything about my claims beyond the surface reading of my talking points?!

What am I supposed to do with all these QQs?

I would have been 100% infavor of this if Sweden had not been multicultural. You just know that the vast majority of Swedes will continue to work and will pay for this system while 98% of all the Arabs will just live off BI and other gibs.

With 1960s Swedish demographics i'd be in favor though, now i'm not so sure.

>>139095325
If you're not living in it then its utility is going to waste.
Somebody else should just live in it and NOT pay you.
I mean this is kind of the fundamental absurdity of capitalism in a nutshell: building houses and not living in them. It's the opposite of productive.

>b-but that's theft
I don't care.

I agree with UBI. I work and live my life quite normally, but you'd have to be retarded to not be able to tell that most crime is done by and because of people struggling to get by.

but this can't be done on its own. immigration should be harsher, training should be offered in various fields focusing on exported products, government funded export industries that employ local, subsidize farming (not done in australia) and subsidize companies that switch from outsource to local hires.

train people > hire people > ubi as fallback rather than dumbcunts sitting at home being sponges.

australia nearly has a system like this, but like everything our government tries to do, it's fucking retarded and doesn't do shit but waste peoples time.

>>139095444
>if you cut out all that shit, and just cut a check to everyone for 1/330,000,000 of the yearly budget you give each individual more money.
That's not true. We spend roughly $2.6 trillion a year on welfare and other programs, divided between 340 million people means $7500 per person per year. That's far less than what welfare dependents receive.

I used to love /pol/ until I got a job and realized none of you have jobs.

It's easy to be against progress when your parents pay your bills, despite your lack of marketable skills or education. I'm glad none of you will reproduce, because you unemployable, penniless fucks will soon be a larger burden on the welfare system than blacks. Just as soon as your parents get sick of feeding you tendies.

>>139095195
>thanks JFK
What?

>Barbarism infringes on property rights, so no
Property rights are abstract, we're talking about the concrete here.
>Everyone already has the freedom to learn a new skill.
Exhibit A on why the word "freedom" is completely meaningless in libertarian vocabulary.
>I made a point which I defended with several facts.
How new are you here?
Your "facts" mean shit until you prove them with a logical argument.
>All work belongs to the government, yes goyim, listen to me
Glad you're finally catching on.
A shame you're too much of a fucking braindead sub-60 IQ nigger to want to fix it.

>>139094769
>Based on the fact that everything has gotten cheaper as more automation has made things more efficient you intellectually lazy faggot
haven't been shopping long have you? I bought a brand new truck in 1985. Want to guess how much that cost? What to guess what they cost now with automation?

>>139094943

And you immediately make it personal, you're really starving for attention aren't you?

Fuck I knew Japs were a pathetic lot but this is shocking to see, have some self respect you attention whore.

>>139095479
>but you'd have to be retarded to not be able to tell that most crime is done by and because of people struggling to get by.
Crime is strongly associated with race, only slightly with poverty (and only petty crime).

>>139095407
>then he moves his production plant to China
then his assets are seized and his business embargoed

>>139095305
>Renting is fucking retarded
I agree. Let's just live in buildings and not pay for anything beyond the upkeep. There are already enough spaces to go around.

>>139095150
Because welfare is the problem. I support the existence of welfare for people who genuinely need it, but I don't support how it's regulated. Any system designed to help people who are incapable of taking care of themselves will be exploited by people who don't need it.

Here in Norway, we actually have a term for it. The Norwegian welfare agency is called NAV, so young people who don't want to work or just want to take a year off while living off of welfare, are said to be "NAVing".

>>139094809
At its logical conclusion, your definition assumes profit seeking is a learned behavior and can be changed, and is not innate to human nature?

That definition is fine with me, because it is almost the same as mine. Left wing denies reality in favor of utopianism and power and actively hates innate human nature, and the right wing recognizes it

It also places Nazis properly in the left wing category

>>139095421
Exactly zero
Welfare as it's being implemented in those countries is a pathetic half-measure.
If you think governments that pay their citizenry to be unproductive is "strong", you're even more of a coward than I thought,

>>139095162

I'm no commie, but in alot of ways it does. What corporation doesn't want cheap, dumb semi-slave labor shitskins? Did you want TPP here? Do you love our current service based economy, where the only jobs are McDonalds, personal trainers, Baristas, Insurance sales, real estate, waiting tables, and the genius bar?

Even the tech industry, which was pushed hard when I was in school, is infested with pajeets who drive down wages, working for major companies off a fake degree, all because these megafuck corporations lve their low skill, low pay brown labor force

>>139095610
No I intend to charge rent since it cost my parents money to have the building built in the first place. Also I want money for me.

>>139089207
UBI is fine if you remove welfare and other social programs with it. It's a much better alternative. This is what these retarded billionaires are not saying. They must mention that other social programs need to go

>>139095530

what about negative tax brackets? like you make less than 50k a year you automatically get 20k per year in reverse income tax.

the whole operation can be run by the IRS.

>>139095530
Is that from the federal budget? Don't states pay welfare as well?

>>139095133
1st world countrys have toilets everywhere, not just factories.

>>139095257
No? What is then, enlighten me.

>>139095265
Yeah they print it, thats not the fucking point. You are engaging in the most warped mental gymnastics I have ever fucking seen. The point is the reward for your labor is being reduced by a third party that demands a cut.

>>139095537
>What?
"Ask what you can do for your country, goyim"
>Property rights are abstract, we're talking about the concrete here.
kek. Most things related to economics and politics are abstract. If you can't deal with the abstract, you're clearly a cowed goy.
>Exhibit A on why the word "freedom" is completely meaningless in libertarian vocabulary.
"If only Tanisha had all her life requirements paid, she would spend her time learning classical composition instead of watching the Kardashians"
>Your "facts" mean shit until you prove them with a logical argument.
This is the point where I realize you're either autistic, a troll, or literally retarded.

HERES THE DEAL FUCKING IDIOTS:

Automation will destroy 30% of all jobs within the next 20 years.

The elites have the choice to drastically reduce population or to give us a universal basic income so that the unemployed masses don't immiserate and turn against them.

So maybe you're able to forget about economic systems of the past millennium. It's ridiculous that you still think in terms like "socialism"

>>139089207
UBI will devalue money.

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7KB, 240x232px

>>139089207
>why would people dependent on consumers want consuming to be easier

>>139089949
Don't forget to renew subscription for your mandatory Anal GPS Tracking Unit.

>>139089207
Whichever party controls UBI gimmedats, essentially controls the future politics of that country. They can slowly inch towards a dictatorship year after year. Alexis de Tocqueville predicted this back during America's inception. The fact that you know so little and can't think of any rebuttal besides "well don't sign up and it won't affect you", shows me you are either underage, a retarded commie trying to shill (albeit poorly), or a woman because woman always vote socialist shit.

>The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

>Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

>Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.

I only tolerate National Socialists because of their desire for a white ethnostate but faggots like you need to be hung. This just encourages you faggots to be even bigger parasites. You deserve nothing for simply being born.

>>139095417
spooky

>>139095691
>shits on the floor and rapes his sister
sorry brah, just human nature
when you gotta go you gotta go

>>139089207
>Why is UBI so embraced by the elites and billionaires?
Because when everything is automated and there are no jobs to be had, UBI will keep the middle class from dragging the billionaires out of their mansions and hanging them from the streetlights.

>>139094850
>>139095551
>my window of causal economic thought doesn't extend past the current era
Because products and disposable income haven't gotten ridiculously cheaper than before automation

Tell me, if automation wasn't the cause, what was then? Magic?

>>139095737
There are more of us than you.

>>139095573
That's funny because blacks are disproportionately in poverty. Maybe go back to school, bud.

>>139089207
Robotics and AI.

Anyone with an IQ of 85-115 will have their jobs replaced. So they get this UBI to stay happy, but are forced to settle for less and billionaires make all the decisions.

>>139095551
>haven't been shopping long have you? I bought a brand new truck in 1985. Want to guess how much that cost? What to guess what they cost now with automation?
Thank government regulations for that.
>>139095745
Negative tax brackets aren't that large, but if they were you're only proving my point further.
>>139095748
Correct, federal budget. States have their own welfare budgets.

>>139095836
But you are incredibly lazy so you cant achieve anything on your own and you have no money to pay for police or military.

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>>139091323

How will they prevent me from using my "UBI" to buy gold, copper etc??

>>139095417
>not understanding the "universal" part

a real universal basic amount could just start out as a dollar per citizen and gradually grow as things get sorted out
>thinking it has to be a certain way
just fucking die you rat